"It's okay to want people, not need them." (Nils Leonard bonus episode)

0:00Radim Malinic:Welcome to this bonus episode of the Daring Forever podcast. This is my chance to zoom in on a few standout moments from this week's interview, find the ones that deserve a second look and dig deeper in what makes them special. This week I spoke with Nils Leonard, who is a creative founder of Uncommon Creative Studios with offices in New York, London and Stockholm. In our conversation, we talked about working at a top level, how to make work that has lasting impact and many ways of attracting the best possible creative talent. The episode published a few days ago was titled Dare to Build Work That Outlasts You and it was a great chance to get behind the scenes at what Nils and Uncommon Creative Studios do.

0:40Radim Malinic:if you haven't checked out a full episode yet let me share with you these four standout moments it feels like a privilege i just don't think most of us give ourselves a permission i don't separate them i think the truth is that every thing you do and every minute you have is a chance really and if you imagine every piece of work can either contribute to some tapestry of your life or just fill up someone else's list and that the only difference between those two things is how you decide to view your job and that's in your power not theirs why would you do it any other way oh i went to a german festival for creativity and they did the most amazing thing just down the left hand side of the wall at this festival i can't remember which one it was maybe cyclope i can't remember they just had fly posters with blank gravestones on it and someone at the end had written their name and then put content solutions beneath it throughout our conversation with Neil, I got to hear a lot of his working and creative philosophies, how to produce the best possible work at every possible time.

1:44Radim Malinic:And in this instance, he talked about the fact that most of us can treat a brief as a tick-bock exercise. The brief lands, we do the work, we deliver, and then we move on. I guess in Neil's case, he turned that a little bit around. The client, the CD, of the budget don't decide what your work means. It's down to a creative, it's down to every single one of us to decide that. The same project can be a box ticked or thread in the bigger story of your life and the only difference is how you choose to see it. What makes this project land is what Niels calls a privilege, it's a burden. I asked him what does it feel like to play at high level and strive to play at highest level and he said it's a privilege and I think that's a brilliant reframing because sometimes with the fight flight or freeze reactions to big things sometimes we might see this kind of level not as a burden but as something that makes us a little bit scared and when i asked him if chasing the legacy feels like an extra weight he just said no it's a permission that is that permission that he given himself that his ambition doesn't start with a bigger client it starts with how he shows up on monday morning you've got to find a way to answer their problem and to answer their needs in a way that makes them have to do it not want to do you have to find a way to make it the only solution not the brave one i don't buy that bravery score thing i never have i'm much more about how do i create the conditions in which you don't even think this is brave you just think this is so i started a conversation with a project I remember that Nils did.

3:23Radim Malinic:It's actually something I got my hands on. Crikey, 10 years ago, and it was something called LifePain from Volvo. And LifePain was one of the most talked about projects of Nils' time at Gray, because it was a glow-in-the-dark spray, first made for reindeer's antlers that turned into a safety tool for cyclists. The interesting part of this was that he doesn't talk about just it being a success story. He actually talks about the fact that he's got a few things he would change and of course reflection is a fantastic thing hindsight you know again fantastic thing but what was the great insight here was that they actually spent months persuading volvo to say yes to this thing looking back he wishes he's done a deal with the spray makers first and then walked in into the boardroom saying hey we're doing this do you want to join us it's the same idea but completely different power dynamic how many times we bend over backwards for our clients trying to make their idea work where if we were left to our own devices we could make it even better you know so in this instance he was talking about a bigger point that talks about bravery he doesn't want clients to feel like they're taking a risk he wants to answer their problems so well that the idea feels like the only way forward he doesn't want them just to buy into the idea they just need to feel like it's essential and i think that's the only antidote if you feel like you need to beg for permission just create something which is just the only solution i wish i wasn't but i am i think we all are i think creative people are but i tell you what i have learned like being back at school the person you fancy the most if you need them a lot you'll never get them and this is true in the world it's true of everything and i know that if we're too thirsty and one thing's too much and we wear it too much we're forgetting the strategies and cardinal rules of being attractive which is you just make on your own you don't need others you do your own thing you know who you are you're clear about your mission and you and there's nothing better than being able to execute your version of events without needing someone else because that's the scarcest thing in the world that's power during our conversation i felt that nils reached a place where i guess you can say he don't care i said look is the word needy in your vocabulary because i give him a compliment suggesting that he's moved beyond needy but he laughed it off and owned it straight away i guess there was a point in that honesty because creative people are needy as nil said and pretending otherwise otherwise will get us nowhere what he's learned about being needy is just to have to stop letting drive you he compared it to the school playground i mean we want someone too much we fall in love with them we'll never get them because we are needy we are desperate it was also jessica hish in my interview during the season called mindful creative and she said when you're desperate for work you will never get it because people see that you're needy and that goes same for the clients because sometimes clients are needy.

6:31Radim Malinic:They skew the dynamics towards the fact that it might not always work the same way and it goes for the same for the talent. What's really attractive is knowing who you are, being clear on your mission and making things happen without depending on anyone else. It connects to one of Uncommon's founding lines. Never be depending on people less ambitious than you to make your dreams come true. Wanting people is fine and needing them is where the power slips away. Anyway, he decides to host a show called The Void in Paris. And he asks everybody along and they all go and they're being told that it's not open yet.

7:09And the people in the queue are like the who's who of the day. They're fucking amazing, like the rock stars and the kings and queens and all the above. And they're being served drinks. So they're like, okay, this is fine. And some food, would you like to say, yeah. And they're out there drinking away. And it's been about an hour and a half. They're still outside. They're like, fucking, what is going on? Eventually, the doors swing open and they're still being served drinks. And two by two, they're let in. And so two by two, they enter this room. They're like, great, can't wait to see this. They look around the room and it's all white.

7:35There's nothing in there. And they're like, okay, we'll wait for a minute. And they're walking around and they expect the windows to explode or something to happen. Nothing happens. Served a few more drinks. They're looking around. They're like, sorry. And no one answers them. Eventually, they've had quite a lot to drink at this point. They've been there three, four hours. They're like, fuck this. Okay, this guy's arrogant as fuck. He's taking the piss. He's had us all come here to look at a white room. what a bastard and they all storm off and they all go home they're like arrogant bastard they all go back to their hotels back to their houses back to wherever they're coming from and literally just before bed they're ranting arrogant bastard they go to the toilet and they have a piss and a jet of pure blue piss comes out because all night the drinks were laced with his color blue and so they didn't realize but actually he had turned them into art and the whole thing had been in service of that now that to me is a fucking a huge story if i'd made that probably retire but secondly no social media no phones no cameras they just stood there and that story has stood the test of time and lives now and it's still a reference point now so to me i look at

8:37Radim Malinic:that and i i'm like that for me is the definition of creativity i heard nil saying the story at off barcelona mixer in uncommon offices which turned out to be what i now call a bacteria heist nils was talking about a story about eve klein who was famous for his color blue called now klein blue back in the day he created an exhibition which was about nothing people didn't get to see anything they got a little bit annoyed but they drank a lot of booze a lot of drinks and then got home and the one day pete eve klein's trademark blue instead of the regular color you would expect and in some ways i guess nil tried to repeat the idea of collecting germs and bacteria from anyone who attended the mixes for off by swapping the dna or swapping the germs and then growing these germs into petri dishes which then became beautiful backdrop of the branding for of 2026 sometimes these ideas are not clear at first but i felt what they did here was really really exciting by finding a talent who specializes in growing artful bacteria and petri dishes find a way to make the link between how creativity is cultured how we all work together how we inspire and influence one another and creating a really really beautiful branding system that i got to see firsthand at off 2026 just a few months ago and it was a fantastic story that kind of find it out from start to finish because seeing off uncommon feature that of was a bit of a surprise but it was one of the most fantastic additions to the lineup to see how a slightly different thinking agency features within that ecosystem them and provides a great value and great add-on to what we would normally do thank you for joining me on this bonus episode of the daring forever podcast i've wholeheartedly encourage you to check out full conversation with nils because it's someone who plays at the top level only just solidified with the fact that uncommon won the agency of the year at the dna do awards and I think swept 21 pencils just a few days ago from recording this.

11:06Radim Malinic:Yeah, check it out. Neil's going to be an inspiring character, full of big ideas, full of big belief and backing it out with fantastic work. Thank you for being here and I'll catch you next week with the next interview. If you enjoyed this episode and would like more accessible resources to help you discover your daring creativity, you can pick up one of my books on themes of mindful creativity, creative business, branding and graphic design. Every physical book purchase comes with a free digital bundle including an e-book and audio book to make the content accessible wherever you are and whatever you do.

11:42Radim Malinic:To get 10 % of your order, visit novemberuniverse.co.uk and use the code PODCAST. Have a look around and start living daringly.