"We always looked at rock bands — they gave us the blueprint" (Snask bonus episode)

0:00Welcome to the first bonus episode of the Daring Forever podcast.

0:03Radim Malinic:Yes, I do change the name of my podcast every year to make it more complicated for myself and everyone else, and including you. I just prefer to encapsulate the theme within a new title rather than going with something that might not be exactly applicable anymore. Anyway, as you will hear a million times this year, the new season of the podcast is the dance in tandem with the release of my new book titled, yes you guessed it, Daring Forever. my new book is easily in my opinion the best book i've written and put together and i can't wait to share it with you and the world when it comes out in october i have to be honest i've asked a few people for an advanced preview and my good friend ben talon called it a predictably wonderful read so yeah i think it's going to be good anyway it's not me boasting i'm just too excited for this season of my podcast currently planned at 50 conversations i'm going to try to go deeper wider and whatever other dimension I can find to explore my guest stories.

1:02Radim Malinic:So just like the last season I'm going to do a bonus episode of each week the one where I unpack some of the gems from the week's conversation pulling out those moments that deserve a second look and dig deeper in what makes them special. This week I spoke to Freddy and Eric from SNASC. As you might know them they are Stockholm-based creative studios that spent nearly 20 years being unapologetically themselves. There are designers, directors, provocateurs, and somewhere in between a rock band and a branding agency. In this conversation we talked about why making enemies is actually the most logical brand strategy there is, how music became this blueprint for everything's nask-dask, and why the design industry desperately needs people brave enough to have an opinion.

1:43Radim Malinic:This episode, published a few days ago, was titled Day to Make Enemies and Gain Fans, and we talked very much about the two decades of building entirely something genuine and rare, which is a studio with a manifesto it actually lives by. If you haven't checked out the full episode, let me share with you these four standout moments. I think it was very early, like second year of existence we were starting to have people thinking like, oh, saying stuff about us or they're young and naive and they think they can do whatever they want and blah, blah, blah. We realized that we can and we never want to please everyone and especially what we do comes from value-based opinions that we stand for, then I think it's good that people then oppose themselves against it.

2:30If they don't agree with our values, that's what they should. And also in the same way, people will then also like what we say because they agree with it. And the nightmare for us would be generic in the middle and no one thinks anything about us. And I think that's what we believe in with branding as well, that brands need to have opinions and set up for them. And if they do this, they will get enemies, but we will also get fans. And if you have 1 % of the world as your fans, you will be extremely successful as a company. So people are afraid of this, but it's not logical. It's not a logical thought.

3:08They think it's too risky, even though it's not.

3:10Radim Malinic:I've started the preview of the episode with Freddie's monologue about the fact that for them it would be a nightmare if there was a generic thing in the middle because at the beginning of their career and generally i've even if i've a reflection of mine or others people do an incredible work at the very start and then it turns left and right and never follows a straight path whereas what i mean with this for example there was a studio i think they're called red and they designed some wood fat boy slim work they were doing incredible work and then just i remember them doing brochures for some electric companies like they didn't do the thing anymore and if i got it wrong red studio i'm really sorry but it shows you the path that we are more rebellious at the very beginning and then drop off into more commercial world and that's part of what conversation was also with eric and freddy about that part but in the case of stask not only they managed to keep their rebellious side and their visual side and their signature you style but dialed it up they are absolutely at the forefront of having branding studio visual studio filmmaking studio that does some of the most incredible work and you know what i'm so grateful that they do it and they do it in their own stride and so well that it's so impressive to watch because they haven't lost their sight they haven't lost the sight of what they do and they do it incredibly well and in the shape of so many visual story making studios they've been doing something similar and they have to change their style needlessly or needingly yeah i'm so impressed with snusk do because it's incredible craft and they show in that if you believe in something if you really want to stand behind something it's incredible so yeah it's not for everyone but as they say as they adopted their motto from tibor carlman if no one hates it no one loves it and the only thing fighting this is capitalism that's the problem it's all about the money and then we don't say what we want because then we're afraid that maybe the money won't come we don't get it it's put in another way we're just doing what we are doing i think it's everyone's just putting themselves always in the context and then they're like this is the structure of this world now we have to adapt and behave this way but we stopped doing like a long time ago we have a company otherwise we just do things we can invoice some people can invoice us that's great then we can do whatever we want in terms of what we say and what this one cuts deeper right in the view of my previous sundown moment that i picked how many studios serve a client because that is almost inevitable that's what they can do because we all need to pay mortgages from something and sometimes is that easier choice the one that deserves to be signed off because it's safe but i don't think that's always the truth because what snusk have just again manifested and proved absolutely possible that there's no fear of consequences you either yourself or you're not and that's quite hard to achieve in their case they avoid creative awards they avoid anything corporate per se because it's helped them build a version of the business where financial pressure can't silence them it's harder than it sounds in a way by pursuing what you want and doing in the way that you want in a way that is potentially structured and i keep repeating on the podcast the structured in the world and it's a rody severin quote where he says that the world is built by people who don't believe in magic and when you look at snask they believe in magic and they actually can make it happen i think the young people today have no clue what it means like indie pop indie rock today it's just pop or rock or whatever but that was more like influences everything from 70s rock to oasis to beatles a lot of what we created as snask has been created from our inspiration from rock bands from Beatles interviews when they were lying in interviews to reading biographies to being on stage for us we always wanted to speak last and then we met a lot of speakers designers and they were like oh I never want to speak last because they think that the audience is tired and but for us it's like the only thing you should aim for is to speak last everyone else is just pre-band for us it comes from music or how we brand our company it's like building this legend about our company or brand exactly like the kiss that's done rolling stones every band out there oasis so a lot comes from there so this was a really interesting insight from freddy because i've got a different view on speaking slots but maybe because i've got books to sell at events but i prefer to go on as early as i can for personal professional commercial reasons because i like people fresh and excited and i believe mr bingo does something similar that he just does the talk first and then sits on his stand selling his drawings and all sorts of stuff but yeah i'm loving the fact that the boys from snask very much said look we are the headline band we always want to speak last we want to do this in a way that wakes people up even though they've been around for a whole day and the whole conversation transpired that they were inspired by the likes of rolling stones the rolling stones would never be a warm-up act for anybody else they would be always the last one to play i admire that about them because their talks are always busy they're always well received and yeah, I just love the fact that it's a small shift in the mindset.

9:02Radim Malinic:Look, we are the headline band and we're going to do that. I think it's a bit about lying, the made-up thing that the humor doesn't present into different cultures or worlds. I think it works more or less everywhere. People want to laugh. People want to hear funny things. But then, of course, they can be completely ignorant around. Oh, we have westernized reference in the humor. Then, of course, people might not understand it in Japan or something because they didn't grow up with that thing, whatever it is they were joking about. So, of course, in terms of the work, you need to be aware and not think that you are everything in the world, etc.

9:43But in terms of like just laughing and having fun and sometimes it's more like that people are afraid. Oh, no, we don't think that we can't do that because they might be upset or we should not say this there. we heard it so many times it's gone out anyways it's been like a success they're like oh wow this actually worked we've also been contacted by companies from other parts of the world where things should not have worked but they contact us because they've seen that work and they're like we never get this here so we want this so it's an interesting insight because i couldn't really see

10:22Radim Malinic:and that's my honest observation i couldn't really see too much of a sort of expressive humans work per se there is elements which are light-hearted and kitsch and interesting but more i got to speak to freddie and eric about what they do and how they do it opened my eyes to a really clever sense of humor and obviously the impressive use of color and impressive world building that these guys do and what transpired for this for this moment it's just that eric said you know what actually humor does work everywhere if you do it right you've got different nations and different cultures that are differently wired as a society and some cultures are expressively hilarious some cultures are a lot more obviously conservative and how do you create piece of work that speaks to everyone but you know what what was really interesting to hear that they get results across the board across the different countries where something comes up they do it right and they make the right impression on clients or new brands or new potential clients because their work is expressive again it's a snask style even though it's applicable to every brand they work with because they can dial it up and they can move the needle when needed but they always stay true to themselves what i loved about the whole conversation was the fact that these boys know what they want and they still want it the same, if not more, than ever before.

11:48Radim Malinic:And I think, you know, I can't just generalize too much, but it's rare to have a moment like this where they can see their future so clearly and I'm so proud that they exist because they show us all that these things still work really well and exist. So thank you for joining me on this bonus episode of the first Daring Forever season podcast and I look forward to seeing you next week with my conversation with Paula Marincón. If you enjoyed this episode and would like more accessible resources to help you discover your daring creativity, you can pick up one of my books on themes of mindful creativity, creative business, branding, and graphic design.

12:31Radim Malinic:Every physical book purchase comes with a free digital bundle, including an e-book and audio book to make the content accessible wherever you are and whatever you do. To get 10 % of your order, visit novemberuniverse.co.uk and use the code podcast. Have a look around and start living daringly.