156: Kill List

27:10And then, you know, and then scopolamine was found in her blood. And basically a whole tumble of additional evidence that suggested that she had been drugged and then murdered. I mean, can you imagine how differently you would investigate a suicide if you knew that someone had paid to have this lady killed? But the FBI never informed the local police when they did their investigation. And even after all that, they had a hard time finding evidence that Stephen, her husband, is who killed her. It was only after they looked at his computer and found his Bitcoin wallet was in fact the one that sent the money to the website.

27:46And of course, the defense attorney was trying to say, well, you only know about that transaction because you illegally hacked into the messages of that website. So that should not be admissible to the court. Stephen Orwine was eventually convicted of first-degree murder and is currently serving life without parole. It was a tragic and awful event that the FBI bungled big time. But it gets worse. The FBI were like, man, what is this Bessa Mafia site? What is going on there? Who's running that? And they wanted to take it down. The FBI jumped into action. And what they did, they Googled a website.

28:22and they i i still just have an ongoing feud with the guy behind the website yura he's paying a guy in india to write write shitty blogs about me he's adding my name to metadata on the website he's really uh looking to uh drag my name from the mud for uh criticizing his website but i don't care because like what who's going to believe that i'm running a website i'm a person i use my own name. I have a blog. I have a job. I live in London. I'm not running some secret murder for hire for website. You know, what sort of person would think that? Turns out the FBI thought that. And between the FBI, they liaised with the National Crime Agency in the UK.

29:05And within literally, I think it's a case of hours or days of this being processed by the FBI, the NCA were breaking down my door and arresting me for running this murder for the high-level website.

29:21Chris was able to get out of his arrest, but it did affect him. Clearly, this Euro guy is doing a lot of work to get Chris to shut up about this website and is willing to frame him or get him arrested. Investigating this site was becoming too much of a burden. I did take the opportunity to quit as having one's door broken down and being arrested for something which doesn't seem to be real wood. I'm like, I'm out of this shit. I'm done. They've handed all my information to police. I'm like, job done. Never want to hear about the website again.

30:09But the more Chris and Carl thought about this The gravity of it just started to sink in These are very real threats to life And already one person has been killed They had lots of time to help Amy But they didn't They could have saved her life But they trusted law enforcement to do it instead And that failed So maybe, just maybe, they can save the next person's life. We're going to take a short break here, but stay with us. This dark web adventure is just getting started.

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32:00Check it all out at blackhillsinfosec.com slash darknet. That's blackhillsinfosec.com slash darknet. The police weren't completely incompetent. Carl and Chris gave the police all the messages that they found on the site, and this did lead the police to be able to find people who were planning murders, and the police were arresting people and putting them in prison. because if you pay someone to kill someone else, that's illegal. It's called solicitation of murder. And you could get life in prison for doing that. Even if you're sending the money to a scam hitman who's never going to do it, it's still illegal.

32:37In fact, someone who got arrested in Spain tried to give that exact defense. They were saying, this whole website was fake, so my client should not be in trouble. But they still got put in prison. Well, the initial idea was that me and Chris would do a short, sharp, nice, quick, kind of eight-week-long retrospective looking at the assassination market, which I, you know, I mean, I'm by far the least brave person talking right now, and I'm, like, really not drawn to this sort of stuff. And quite a lot of my kind of instinct was telling me not to go back into this world, and I'd only dip my toe in, like, nothing like Chris.

33:18But I did feel, like, to me, it all felt that those years from 2016 on was like, very much like unfinished business, you know. The site was still operating. The person running the site was still making money from it. And Amy Orwell had been killed. Suddenly, Chris kind of brings us into a Zoom call. And then it tells us this kind of fateful discovery that he's consistently in. He's beginning to scrape these kill orders and that the site is, and that we're essentially going to be receiving them in near real time, you know. And that was then the beginning of the Kill List. Kill List is an amazing podcast that Carl made, which pretty much starts at this point right here.

34:02With new kill orders coming in, what should they be doing about this? Chris is the dark web hacker. Carl is the investigator. Ultimately, I was able to access the administration page on the website. So this is the page administrator uses to correspond with the users' website and to scan them. So that page can see everything on the site. There were some other pages as well, like pages that showed payments and so on and so forth. So once I've discovered these through technical means, I basically have a small cron job. I'm pulling them down fully as is. I'm actually then building parses, do parse them into a constituent components, put them into a database and ultimately I'm building a web front end to categorize, browse and report on each of these cases and annotate them all which today I have, you know, I have it in one of my windows, my window to the right hand side now, I have my Hitman analysis website where I have all the cases in there categorized by harm, by fraud, by country, by personal information, annotated with Facebook links, address links, phone numbers, etc.

35:24So, but I was able to focus on getting the data legible, clean, kind of comprehensive, and handing us over to Carl and the podcast team. And so that was a good division of labor. so I had the technical tasks and Carl and the team had to deal with everything else We went to the police again the Metropolitan Police they did believe us but there were no UK cases they basically decided that because there were no UK cases it wasn't their problem and they disclosed this kind of initial tranche of orders that Chris had compiled and handed over to us to Interpol and we thought about that for a while and thought that this is very likely to lead to additional bungled police investigations or no investigations at all.

36:17They won't know who we are, the police. We won't know who the investigating officers are. There'll be no way for us to exchange information and it will very likely lead to police officers, kind of in the same way that it happened with Amy Orwine, maybe receiving some kind of warning, maybe making contact, but not in any kind of position to effectively investigate, much less gather the evidence they need to actually get someone into a courtroom. Chris would read through these kill orders and sometimes try to figure out who it was that made the kill order. So often they'll approach with some brief information saying, hey, you know, can you do this sort of service in my location?

36:57And the answer is always, of course, yes, we have hit men around the world. We can do it within one week. That's always the answer because it's a scam. and then they usually say then there might be some more information like oh yeah well i'm thinking of something special can you give a message can you in this case good kidnapping can you uh you know say something like that and then the answer was yes yes we can do that uh often it's followed up by here's the initial order here's a name the address the social media the car they drive um etc etc where they where they work where they can be found often they give a bit of information about why they want the person killed which usually gives them away like oh this person should return to their husband it's like yeah i wonder who posted that order or this person should be be given a message you know that's the beat that's for being a cheater it's like oh i wonder who that person could be um they do that that has to happen sometimes and after the order there's third negotiations and there's always a price how much They say, oh, it's always usually$5 ,000,$10 ,000.

38:01But it's, you know, depending on how much money you have. Sometimes there's a negotiation about, oh, how can you make sure you don't take the money and run? And they say, oh, no, you can't take the money and run because we have an escrow system. And if the hitman would take the money and not do a new killing, we wouldn't give him the money. So that way you are safe. But of course, the escrow system is designed to stop you from a hypothetical hitman scamming you like you would a dietit drug vendor scamming you. It doesn't protect you from the site itself being a scam. And then Europe even has like dedicated third party escrow sites which are independent or apparently independent, where you can go to this independent site and you can broke your legal transaction and a further broker can handle this for you.

38:49it's all run by him of course and of course he directs everyone to use this independent website and it all uses the same back end and then you go say i've put my money in the escrow system and say oh i can i see we are locked this we've now going to send a hitman but then of course what happens is oh actually it turns out you need a higher class of hitman or you need to pay more or the hitman went there but they failed so you need to need to make them need to pay more money or it turns out you need to, you know, this is more complicated so you need to pay more money. And this is how it goes down in general.

39:25Chris would sometimes be able to identify who put the kill order in because it might say something like, it's my wife who I want killed or something. And then they have the wife's information in the kill order to easily figure out who did this. So they decide to try to phone up the targets to see if they can warn them. But the FBI mishap with Amy Allwine was top of their mind. What if they call up someone and the person who's trying to kill them answers the phone or is listening in and it just escalates the whole thing and they get someone killed. The plan was to try to call the person but then get them alone so that they can tell them this information in private.

40:04But man, how do you call someone out of the blue and try to get them to listen to the information you have but they need to be alone first before you're going to tell them, it sounds impossible to deal with. But Carl gave it a try. No, I don't want any information. I'm trying to give you information. No, I don't care. I'm sorry. Okay, well, thanks for your time anyway. Do give me a phone back if you'd like more information. And then he tried again. Would we be able to arrange a time to be able to talk to you at greater length about that? No, thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay. So you don't...

40:50Carl was extremely nervous on these calls. He's got the target on the phone, which is hard to begin with, but he's trying to be as sensitive as possible to avoid any further harm. He decides to try again to be more direct. I understand you don't want to work with me on the story. However, I'm actually duty-bound to say that the information that we have might relate to you being in danger. so I'm kind of duty-bound as a journalist to disclose it to you if you'd like me to.

41:19Actually, I don't have time for this. Even if you're asking me for a survey that has something to my relationship to the job or to professional work. No, it's not a survey. I'm a journalist. We've come across information which indicates that you might be in danger. I'm in danger? Yes. Thank you for trying to protect me, keep me to face my dangers. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, mate. Goodbye. Wow. Leave me to face my dangers. He's not having any of it. I'm very surprised by that. I mean, if someone phoned me up saying you might be in danger, I would want to know what it was regarding. Yeah. This is turning out to be a lot harder than it sounds.

41:58Absolutely. We knew the whole thing was this ethical kind of minefield. and I was really afraid that I would do something which meant that I could never live with myself again. You know, we had this information that Chris was passing us that was unbelievably powerful. I mean, it had the power to save lives and destroy them and we didn't know what to do. We had no real frameworks. We didn't know what the safest thing to do often was. We were having to kind of make it up in urgency as we were going along. And I didn't, you know, I mean, we could have made one... It's kind of easy now to talk about all of this in retrospect.

42:40But at the time, you don't know what's going to happen. You don't know that this call is going to turn out okay or that person's going to be okay. And every single time I made that call, and remember, nine times out of ten, they just hung the phone up on me or they wouldn't talk or it would be a wrong number or something like that. But every single time I dialed that number, I'd be having to work myself up into this. I was working myself up into this kind of state of mind where I thought, well, you know, this could be the moment where I commit some, like, ethical crushing kind of mistake that haunts me for the rest of my life.

43:18I think it's at this point where I was listening to The Kill List that I was happy that Chris was working with Carl on this story. Like I said, I was tracking what he was working on and hoping we could talk, and I was tapping him on the shoulder again and again for years trying to get him to tell me the story. But man, Carl is an amazing journalist. and he has a whole team and seemingly like he has connections all over the world to try to do something about this. And I wouldn't have done even half as good of a job as what he did on Kill List. It's truly an amazing podcast. As we're doing all this, making this extremely significant decision to contact the people on the Kill List directly, we're increasingly actually not really behaving like journalists anymore.

44:02Like journalists don't normally step into stories like that they don't normally contact victims um and uh and and like drive stories or even create them like they normally kind of try and be as least uh kind of disruptive as they possibly can that's definitely not what we're doing there so so that was also like very disorientating like stepping like further away from at least this kind of anchoring professional identity that the iron the kind of team would have you know and becoming like something else and not really having a word for it. Oh, you know there's a word for it, Carl. You know what I'm saying?

44:39Well, if you're going to say vigilante... Yes. Then I don't think we were ever a vigilante because we were desperately trying to get the police to step in, like not replace them. At least I was. We were handing over everything we did to the police. So yeah, I mean, I never thought we were vigilantes. That wasn't the right word in my mind for it either. It was like some weird gap of being a really proactive journalist or investigator. And you might be thinking, but Interpol is handling it. Just let them do it. But there's a reason that they felt it was important for them to continue to do something.

45:14It was because we were thinking about this disclosure route that had just appeared, where Chris was passing it to us. We were passing it to the Metropolitan Police. They were passing it to Interpol. and then Interpol would presumably pass it to the police forces around the world. There was one in Switzerland, there was one in Italy, there was one in Amsterdam, you know, all over the place. The problem with that was that we knew that Interpol would basically denude the disclosures of any identifying information of us and we would have no idea who the investigating officers were. So this kind of cut or breach would happen.

45:56There would be no link. Like they would just receive this Word document that Chris had created, plus maybe some like Bitcoin information. They would have no way, as the Metropolitan Police did, of actually checking to see whether I was mad or not, which they genuinely did. And we would have no way of disclosing additional information to them. And Chris was passing over like updates all the time. You know, these were live conversations that were happening. So sometimes there'd be more Bitcoin and the urgency would have changed or a specific moment or time and place were being mentioned in the order, you know, which would change how dangerous we thought it was.

46:36And we would have no way of kind of passing that on in a reasonably swift manner to the people on the ground that could actually do something about it. So that's why ultimately we decided that we needed to go to them directly. And while investigating all this, they would run into news articles that would chill them to their bones. There's many instances, many cases, I'm sure we could be touching as many as you like, but we'll be pressed for time here. Like, for example, there was one case where there was a hit against this young man in America, and someone paid$5 ,000 to kill him. Two weeks later, he's dead by gunshot, self-inflicted gunshot wound.

47:15You know, was there insurance involved? Was there foul play? it's hard to say um i won't go into too much of this but during the course of our investigation there was one of these major cases come through where someone paid a hell of a lot of money to have them killed and again within weeks that person was killed um with information like that plus all the rest information which always gives the hideous backstories on people's story of of of stalking, of drugging, of coercive behavior, or marital breakdown, of relationship breakdown, of people sending death threats, people putting hidden cameras, people, you know, really ruining lives.

47:58We realized that this is, it's really horrific, this stuff. And I just happened to have this sneak peek into the worst of it, as does Carl. And yeah, it's very, very hard to digest. And all this just adds a level of urgency to it all. So I phone maybe a dozen people, maybe two dozen over about the course of about a week, maybe a bit longer. And it is dramatically unsuccessful. Oh, Carl, don't say that. I know it is. It really is. I mean, it doesn't work. Everyone thinks I'm a scammer. It turns out we were solving the wrong problem. So we thought the problem was going to be how to reach them safely over the phone, how to disclose in a way that wasn't going to crater them psychologically.

48:43The actual problem was that no one was going to believe me. And so people hang up. They phone back with their friends and they prank me and they pretend it's a big joke. More often than not, they literally just don't pick up the phone, though. This is in the middle of COVID, remember? So people are kind of getting scam calls all the time. And so we change up what we do. And we decide to send out local journalists on the ground to physically go and try to reach the people that were on the list. and that really changes things. So it's only then really that we begin to make meaningful contact, reach people, be believed and begin to kind of develop the next phase in the kill list really which is talking to them, supporting them and working with the police to try and find out who put them on the list.

49:30The podcast Kill List does an amazing job of documenting their adventure. Calling people, talking with police, going to houses, talking with Yura even. It's a wild adventure and you really should go and listen to it. But one person in particular that they contacted stuck with me. They discovered that there's this guy named Ron Ilg who paid for the murder of his wife in Spokane, Washington. Okay, yeah, so obviously I'm the first person to see this. And I actually worked out his identity. So this guy is a neonatal surgeon. He's literally a surgeon for babies. He's also looking to break the hands of a surgeon.

50:05and um it's like and he's paying something upward of fifty thousand dollars for this uh he's got like multiple set plans of when the kidnapper should be placed and taking photographs of it and how she should be brainwashed and how she should be broken and where she should be taken taken to and how how he'll get to see the information about this whilst whilst uh remaining at a distance. It's, it's, I hate to, I don't usually use this word, but it's sick and it's messed up. And, you know, in his mind, when he paid that$50 ,000, it's very much real. He was going to do this.

50:52I was able to quickly work out between these identities of this woman and this surgeon mentioned that the person who seemed related to them was this character called Rod Ilg and you know this is the sort of information I send up to Carl and the team and I'm like this guy, they've got to do something about it, you know are the FBI working, helping at this point are they going to do something because this is just crazy this is just, I can't believe this guy is going around making his plans and like no one's taking us seriously. That's terrible. In addition to that, Chris is seeing that this guy, Ron Ilg, is trying to get his wife addicted to opioids, so she'll call off the divorce proceedings.

51:40He seems extra diabolical. Chris's subject in the emails would normally be new payer, which would always cause my heart to sink a little bit. But this one stood out from the very beginning for all the reasons Chris has already said um there was a bonus structure i mean the guy had literally already loaded in all the money for a whole series of things that had to happen to jennifer um which were all about the use of drugs and they were all about control uh and it was it stood out for that it stood out actually weirdly and grotesquely because it wasn't about murder uh which somehow made it worse but then it also stood out because the amount of money a huge amount of money had been had been paid it was the largest payment um so we reach out uh and and and get hold of jennifer and and speak to her uh and realize that she's um in the middle of a a kind of uh relationship which is leaving which is uh involves ron who's very dangerously spiraling out of control um he seemed to have some extremely like kind of uh worrying behaviors to do with control he'd probably been tracking her he'd been um kind of allegedly as putting drugs into her drink um he'd there was another woman in the marriage that he'd kept in a septic tank under his house it was it was horrifying uh and i think the septic tank was more of a kind of a i don't think it was a handle electric situation per se it was more of a temporary bdsm well i mean he dressed the whole thing up as bdsm he dressed all of this controlling behavior up as hey this is just my king yeah I mean he let the woman wasn't in there the whole time it was it was part of a he had a dungeon I believe in his house and it was just all coming together as a man who was really really really committed to controlling the women he was in a relationship with and didn't seem to be able to deal with his wife leaving and this was the kind of the first time the kind of FBI really kind of moved in and kind of we could see an investigation kind of rolling out so Ron left for Mexico on the day that Jennifer was to be kidnapped possibly as a alibi who knows and when he returned there were 10 FBI agents waiting for him in the airport undercover.

54:15So he lands, he's immediately interviewed. His house is being searched at the same time. And he makes quite a serious error in a thumbprint safe in his house, a safe that only he could access. There is a sticky note. And on that sticky note is both his username name and the password for the site that Chris has been surveilling. Okay. And the police are able to get in the safe and see that? They do. They drive him to his own house and he opens a safe for them. Yeah. And then, so what happens to him? Well, he's released by the police that night. He makes a suicide attempt, quite a serious one, as I understand it, I think that night or the next day, and is then placed under protective, well, he's placed under custody and then arrested.

55:15I just want to say that really upset me that he tried to kill himself. I got into this to stop people being murdered, and even a horrible kill of people trying to kill themselves over this. This is not what I want. I want to make the world a better place, and it's always clear whether I'm achieving that, though, ultimately, in this case, I think I did. But Ron is not confessing to anything. He's pleading innocent and is working tirelessly to try to make a case to free him. It's a long story, and we don't have time to go into it all. But he's now convicted and sentenced and is in prison for a pretty significant stretch.

55:50Think about it, yes.

55:55And it's winds like this where they can get a dangerous person put in prison that makes it all seem worthwhile. The kill list, this whole experience, has been a very difficult one. It's had some very bleak, very dark moments, but it's also got those moments of feeling like it's really meaningful and worthwhile. And the sentencing and conviction of Ron and Jennifer's kind of emergence from that has definitely been, for me anyway, one of those. So it was 2020 when they started taking action on these kill orders, and they've been documenting it all along. And there's just so many cases that they researched.

56:32I still feel it barely scratches the surface. It really does.

56:39This current situation, what's happening now with the site? Is it still operational or has it been shut down by the police or what? There were a series of arrests in Romania, which behind all the site operators or police people affiliated with them. I believe the U.S. authorities had something to do with that. And following that incident of the remaining arrests, the website had underwent technical changes it was shut down for a bit came back again uh i intermittently uh lost bits of access until we reached a point now where i have almost no access and so i find no new cases come in before the last uh year and a bit but in that period um we have seen basically arrests from the website uh in the us and switzerland and austria So we have evidence that some law enforcement aid to the other is either cooperating with or has infiltrated the website and is making some arrests.

57:38Of the people who run the website? No, people using the website. The website continues to operate and, for all I know, continues to scam people out of money and continues to enrich Romanian scammers. You talked to the admin of the site over chat. What is the reason why they run this or do this? He's just a scammer. I believe he used to be a carder, someone who deals with stolen financial data and whatnot, and was familiar with darknet scams. And he told me that he saw a niche for doing believable darknet scams. He didn't tell me. He told a persona I had taken over at the time. But yeah, he just thought there was a niche for a believable, effective, darknet murder scam to be lucrative.

58:30And he's not wrong. There are some other sites out there doing this, but I believe he's the most successful financially, the most search engine optimized, has the highest traffic, the highest number of users. And considering he's been at this since 2016 and dealing with money in Bitcoin, he will be a multi-millionaire by now. And, you know, here's me going along, you know, basically with, like, legal fees and doing this in my evenings. And, like, it's not really, you know, it's been hard to keep it up. But, yeah, it's still going on. And, you know, people say, oh, but, you know, what if you get him?

59:16What if you get him when it be over? I'm like, no, it won't be over because I've been on the website for years. They delete the messages as they go along. So you seize the website. You don't get years back of messages. You get very little. I'm the only one of the years worth of messages. So unfortunately, there's going to be no end to it in terms of the website getting shut down. For me, it's only over when I've actioned the remainder of the kill list.

59:48The way that dark web websites work is that they're designed to be private. You can't tell where the website is hosted or where it is in the world. So you really need to wait for the website administrator to screw up and reveal something about themselves in order to take the thing down. So it's a whole time. The only thing they can do is just keep blogging and podcasting and publishing articles about the site being a scam. There was no way for them or even the police to take this website down since they don't have enough information to know who's running it or where it's hosted. Well, I think the story profoundly changed the lives of all of the people that were involved, like me, Chris, Caroline, you know, everyone.

1:00:31It kind of did everything. I mean, it was and is like the most, for me anyway, by far, the kind of most important, meaningful, worrying, sometimes isolated and disgustingly urgent work that I've ever found myself having to do. And it started a thing back then in 2020, which is, you know, is still going now. Like people are still going through court cases, people are still in danger. It's the most important thing I'll ever work on, I'm sure. And I really, really hope actually, that I don't have to do anything like this ever again. Chris has lost access to the private messages on the site in 2023, which means they haven't seen any new kill orders come in since then, which for Carl, at least, means he's stepped away from investigating more cases.

1:01:25But Chris still feels there's old kill orders that are still worth looking into. So he continues to make it his duty to investigate every single person who's on the list. again i don't think people believe that i'm still doing this by myself they they've rather believe some comforting truth that no one no one uses these websites or it's all in hand and nothing can be done but that's not the case at all there are there are people being murdered on the list right now who i haven't got to in time you know there's probably dozens of people on the on the list who are dead and of those half of my kid are saved and i feel like people need to know And I don't know, I would like some support in this, but it's a difficult position I'm still in.

1:02:18To date, they have seen over 900 people show up on the kill list. And they've taken action on hundreds of them. And for the most part, Chris does it alone now. He sometimes hires private investigators to help him, but that's expensive. and since his work leads to more arrests than if the police simply handled it by themselves, it uniquely positions him to do good in the world. And he's a bit disappointed that there aren't more journalists or police that are taking him seriously, that want to work with him to help him. But since he knows lives are at stake here and he has all kinds of information on them, he can't simply ignore it and walk away.

1:02:56To follow the latest on what Chris is doing, you can visit his website, which is pirate.london. And I should probably tell you something. In my research for this episode, I have discovered that every single hitman for hire website on the internet has been fake. Most are operated by scammers. Some are operated by the police. But what's more is that hitmen in general are pretty much a myth. One of the things I did to prep for this episode was to watch the movie Hitman by Richard Linklater. It's based off a true story of a fake hitman. And even in the movie, they say hitmen aren't real. Take a listen.

1:03:30You know, people feel almost disappointed to learn that hitmen don't really exist. This idea that there are people out there at a retail level you can just hire to eliminate your worst relationship issues or facilitate some money scheme or the usual combination of both. It's a total pop culture fantasy, but because hitmen have been a staple of books, movies, and TV for the last 50 years, good luck getting anyone to believe their existence is all a myth. Hollywood really has planted this idea in our head that seems impossible for us to undo. So I urge you to be skeptical of any such idea. But I also want to say that if your relationship with someone has gotten so bad that you want them killed, you need to get out of there.

1:04:20You're not acting like you, you know? That's your emotions that have taken over. And you won't be happy with yourself until you find peace. You need to find yourself again. Killing someone isn't going to give you the peace you think it will. You need to remember what makes you happy and seek that instead of violence. It's sometimes hard to see the light at the end of a tunnel during bad relationships or big breakups. But the future is so much brighter than you realize. Don't let them turn you into a monster. You're not a monster. dig deep and find the strength to rise above it and be that amazing person that you actually are

1:05:11a big thank you to Chris Montero and Carl Miller for sharing this incredible story with us I highly urge you to go find and listen to their podcast Kill List the phone calls with the victims are incredible there's one lady that they call up and they tell her hey your life might be in danger and she just laughs and she's like oh it's probably my husband but don't worry, he'd never harm me. And it's just wild to hear how these people react to such news. So go check out the show wherever you listen to podcasts and also keep up to date with what Chris is doing by visiting his blog. Pirate.London is the website.

1:05:43And hey, if you want to listen to this show ad-free or if you want bonus episodes, I've got 11 bonus episodes now available for you to listen to right now. All you got to do is go to plus.darknetdiaries.com. That's plus.darknetdiaries.com. This episode is created by me, the neon specter, Jack Recider. Our editor is the glitch guy, Tristan Ledger. Sound design by the executable Andrew Merriweather, mixing by proximity sound. Our intro music is by the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder. My computer is so broke, it ran out of cash. This is Darknet Diaries. Thank you.