Rahm Emanuel is obsessed with fitness

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0:15Rahm Emanuel: Campsite Media.

0:21You know, back through my days covering politics, which was my former life, I guess it's still sort of my life too now. Now, anyway, one name that I heard over and over and over again, like a billion times, Rahm Emanuel. I mean, he worked in Bill Clinton's White House. He was Barack Obama's chief of staff. He was a congressman. He was the mayor of Chicago. He was U.S. ambassador to Japan. He's held all of these big jobs in politics. And one constant through them all is he's always found time to work out, like a serious workout routine. every single day. Ram is totally obsessed with exercise.

1:02Rahm Emanuel: Like this morning, this is an example. I swam a mile and did an hour of weights. And then at lunchtime, I'm going to go do an hour of yoga. What I try to do, and it changes, but it's three times a week I swim a mile. I've been doing that for 40 plus years. Yeah, Ram Emanuel, obsessed with fitness. The story of why that is true, absolutely crazy. We're going to get to that. We're going to get to how the hell he's going to keep up a routine like this if he decides to run for president in 2028. We'll get to all of it coming up next.

1:40Ambassador, thanks for being here. I want to start with one of your obsessions, which it sounds like fitness has been a big part of your life for a very long time. And I guess I wonder what that means. Like how often are you working out and how are you, how did you find time to do that when you were, you know, running a White House and being an ambassador to Japan and all that stuff?

2:02Rahm Emanuel: Well, first of all, I do it in the morning, like this morning, just as an example. Okay. I swam a mile and did an hour of weights. And then at lunchtime, I'm going to go do an hour of yoga. What I try to do, and it changes, but it's three times a week I swim a mile. I've been doing that for 40 plus years more. Three times a week I do weight training for one hour with a trainer. Twice a week I do yoga for an hour with a trainer. And then twice a week aerobic, which is 45 on the bike and 15 on the elliptical or move the times around, but it's a minimum of one hour. and uh that's what i try to get in there may be a little more but net very rare less and it started dialing all the way back okay uh when i was uh nearly died from an accident uh the doctors uh both doctors infectious disease and uh the doctor said if it wasn't for my physical condition and that's when i was dancing a lot i would have been a goner and then so that just became okay and then one thing led to another and i would say it's gone from an obsession to slightly on the neurotic side of the spectrum what what is the i'm trying to think of where that line is when you go from obsession to neurosis well i don't know if there's a uh first of all, probably more morphs rather than flips.

3:34Yeah. It's like a gradual thing. You don't even notice it. Yeah.

3:37Rahm Emanuel: I mean, like I will look at the week and go, okay, I used to be when I was living in Chicago when I was mayor or whatever, not running around the country, I could tell you which days I did what, et cetera. I'm regimented about getting what in now versus what day it will be on. But, you know, and then I, this is another kind of weird, I don't recommend this if you want mental health, Every year between Thanksgiving and Christmas, I set a goal. Sometimes it's adding something new to the regimen. But this year, I've set a goal of replacing five pounds with five pounds of muscle. Five pounds of fat.

4:19Rahm Emanuel: Five pounds of fat with five pounds of muscle. Do you even have five pounds of fat? I feel like you're a pretty fit guy. I'm not noticing a lot of additional fat. I got my trainer. We got to have a diet program with it. So I don't know. That would be, I think, a pretty good sign that it's gone from obsession to neuroses. Yeah, that feels like evidence. I'm thinking of my New Year's resolutions. It was like, don't drink wine by yourself on airplanes. Cut that out. And you're like, transform five pounds of fat into five pounds of muscle. You know, I don't think, going back to the scene of the crime, I was in the hospital for seven weeks.

5:02Rahm Emanuel: First 96 hours was touch and go. This is when you were going, this is like college years? It was a summer before college. In fact, the doctors didn't want me to go to college. And that's when I finally had an explosion after seven weeks. And Dr. Davis, Todd Davis, and I got into it. But in the end of the day, they let me go. And they weren't sure they wanted to monitor the infection because they really didn't think they had not only suppressed it, but eliminated it. But I think over that period of time, you know, it was probably one of the most important things that ever happens to me. And then one byproduct, there was other things that come out of it.

5:39Rahm Emanuel: The other things are my obsession about getting something done with my life. I was a mess. I was not exactly the biggest, hardest worker in high school. but one obsession that comes in is this exercise obsession because Todd Davis who has now passed away and his son is a friend says to me if you know you weren't in this physical condition there's a good chance you would have been a goner and that becomes kind of the motivation for two fronts one is on the exercising the other one to kind of go do something with my life because I wasn't exactly as my father I don't think this translates well for your podcast, but there's a Yiddish word called shver arbiter, which is sarcastically said, hard worker, which is a shver arbiter.

6:24Rahm Emanuel: He's not. I wasn't exactly a hard worker. And then I kind of come out of this with this obsession to do something with my life and to stay incredibly healthy. Yeah, you got a new lease on life and a second big chance. I don't want to gloss over this painful experience. So you were a teenager and you were dancing a lot, which was what had you in good shape. It was ballet, right? Yeah, it was ballet. I always took ballet. I had jazz or modern dance, et cetera. But ballet was the foundation. And that starts freshman year in high school, off season. I say to my mother, I want to improve my soccer game for the next season.

7:05Rahm Emanuel: That was the year, I don't know if you're too young, but Rosie Greer for the Minnesota Vikings had taken up ballet. She goes, she says, you should take up ballet. So I'll never forget this. I walk into the Evanston School of ballet and there's 25, 30 women and me. And I go, like a light bulb goes off and goes, okay, you can sit on the bench for the rest of the season with a bunch of guys, or you can be in here by yourself with 25 women. I did not need AI I kind of punched that in. Yep. Decision made. Human brain makes decisions. I was ready to go out on a limb, and I said, ballet it is. And then I'm dancing a lot and performing stuff at schools, et cetera, et cetera.

7:55Rahm Emanuel: And I can't remember the hours, but I'm dancing somewhere close to 40 to 50 hours plus school full time, but dancing, et cetera. and if not more, but in very good condition. And according to Todd Davis, you know, if it wasn't for that, good chance I'd be on the other side because the first 72 hours in the hospital, I'm in full ice pack. I'm running 105 fever, plus or minus. I have five blood infections, two bone infections, and gangrene. Jesus. And they were going to just chop the arm off to stop the bone infection spread. And in fact, a nurse saves that by the way she undid the bandage and in the soapy water.

8:42Rahm Emanuel: Anyway, I was a mess. Well, how did you get there? I mean, you're doing ballet, but you're also working at a fast food restaurant, right? I'm working at Arby's, correct? I'm cleaning the meat cutter. The manager forgets to tell me there is a metal glove and I'm cleaning below the blade. Boom. Since I don't want to ruin everybody's day, I clean it and I wrap it up. What happens is not only do I wrap it very tight in that very brilliant way, there's gangrene. I not only had sliced the finger, but I sliced the bone. There's a piece of meat stuck in there. I would and we'll just leave it there let's get to the other side of this obsession yeah but you're but I do you're rushed to the hospital yeah they talk about I mean that there was talk of taking your entire arm um yeah I'm convulsing body's shaking and this nurse saves my life uh because one of the uh infections can only live it's lives in the bloodstream and because it can't have oxygen and the bubble water and the soapy water the way she's unwrapping it uh kills it before it has a chance to get into the body because I had tied it's a it's a messed up story and it then becomes the impetus that now I'm just kind of I have to do it for my own mental health but I've done it my whole life meaning from that moment I did it when I was a congressman I did it when I was a chief of staff I did it when I was president uh Clinton senior advisor I did it when I was mayor and I did it when I was ambassador I have a regiment I've never given up on it in my body now physically.

10:24Rahm Emanuel: Now you crave it. Once you get that attached to it, I mean, it's, you can't live without it. Exactly. So is there, is there a day you remember in one of these very insane positions that you've had where, I don't know, like you had to make that impossible decision? Like I have so many meetings or there's something so high stakes going on in the white house. I really should not swim this morning because president clinton is deciding whether to declare war or i mean just something where you were like holy shit like is this am i really going to go exercise right now all right i'm gonna i'm gonna stay this right now this morning because i had this cnn hit time i ended up swimming at 5 a.m doing my weights i was home by 6 30 i got up early so i could get it all in okay so you just wake up as early as it takes yes i mean and i'll map out the week i can tell you exactly what i'm gonna do tuesday what i'm gonna do wednesday what i'm gonna do thursday what i'm gonna do friday what i'm gonna do saturday i can tell you today because it's mapped out over the weekend over the weekend the second thing is unlike not yoga or bike but on in the swim that, uh, 31 minutes, I probably do my best thinking.

11:38Rahm Emanuel: So actually whatever that day is coming ahead or whatever, you haven't been doing it for 40 years. So you can either count one, two, or you just take a problem and start noodling it. Anybody that's ever worked for me will know the worst time in the morning is when I'm done swimming and I'm on my way home, even getting that call while I was in the pool. I figured it out. I figured it out. I, I, I, yes. I mean, I'll give you the one example because the other day, Amy and I, my wife went to see the, it's not really a library, but president Obama's what I call presidential campus. They're putting a neighborhood library there.

12:21Rahm Emanuel: It's called co-location. Well, we've done six of those in Chicago. In fact, Seoul, South Korea, Houston, other cities have come to see what we didn't. A great urban reporter at the New York Times wrote a story all about these codes. Anyway, one day when I'm swimming in the neighborhood of the back of the yards, there was a high school. The day beforehand, I meet with a bunch of leaders from back of the yards. And this is back of the yards, meaning it's back of the stockyards. That's the neighborhood. It's mainly a Mexican-American Hispanic neighborhood. They want a library. They don't have one.

12:55Rahm Emanuel: So in the pool, they had said that I had read a weekly report about an upcoming thing anyway where I was going to be meeting with the schools all about new construction, et cetera, the capital budget. So I thought about, well, you know, every library, it's a high school that's being built. That's a big point. I said, every school has a library. So when they came in, I said, do you guys have a library planned in the school? They said, of course. I said, well, where is it? And this is early on in the process. They said, well, it's on the third floor. I said, well, I'd like you to think about putting it on the first floor and give two different entries, one from the school, one from outside.

13:32Rahm Emanuel: It was early enough of the process. I said, okay. And that becomes our first co-location, and we put a neighborhood library in the high school. Now, usually you'd have a Chicago Public School capital, library capital budget, and they would never meet. Fast forward, I love this idea, and it becomes a big success. we did three different projects with Chicago Housing Authority, beautiful architecture, Skidmore Owings, all these great architectural firms from around the globe competed for it. And we did senior housing, but on the first two floors was a neighborhood library in the public housing. I love that.

14:11Rahm Emanuel: And President Obama, and that came from a pool, from a swim, because somebody said something over here, we need a library. I'm meeting with the schools there. and that idea came you can call a water log but we'll do a live i don't have the money for a library but i'm building a school so let's just put the public neighborhood library in the school what is it about swimming that that makes you like make connections that you might not make you know outside the pool one is there's nobody around there's no communication there's nothing to distract you telephone or whatever and you can't you can count but i'd rather i start noodling something and it becomes a way to, you know, rather than count to pass the time.

14:53It's a meditative. I mean, is that the right kind of word?

14:56Rahm Emanuel: Well, all you have is your breathing. So I suppose, you know, if I'm, if my, I've only meditated a few times, my daughter, my, one of my two daughters does it a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So many of idea will come from that and from the pool. And it gives me that, Unlike, I don't mean to say this, I don't usually say, well, I was weightlifting, I thought of, because you're counting, and that becomes. It's really, of all the four things I do or five, that's the one in which I get a spark. And there's different things that have happened at different times in both the tenure of being chief of staff or being ambassador or mayor where an idea comes about.

15:42Is there a decision from the Clinton White House or the Obama White House that we can at least tangentially tie to one of your early morning swims?

15:50Rahm Emanuel: All right, this is going to get me in trouble. I love that. Perfect. This is the greatest place, perfect place for that. So every year, President Clinton, he'd give us his hand-me-down ties that he got his gifts that he didn't want. And I'd get them, and they were horrendous, and I'd give them to my father-in-law. You'd just pass them along. Yeah, it was just like, and every year my father-in-law would get these ties. I wouldn't tell him that it was coming from Clinton. One year, I get a little book, like one of these little square books. I mean, literally that size. It was Yiddish humor for goys.

16:26Rahm Emanuel: And I go, that is thoughtful. And I stuck it in the drawer of my desk, you know, and whenever I was on a call or whatever, it was actually pretty good. It was like little X months later. I forgot how many months later. The Star Report came out. And if you read through the report, which all of us had to do at that time. Yeah. Special counsel, Ken Starr, but back in those days, we all, yeah. There's a footnote in the report about the gifts. And one of the gifts, Yiddish humor for Goiz. And I'm going, I know that book. I've seen that before. Yeah. Did I read a book review of that book? How do I know that book?

17:00Rahm Emanuel: And it's like one of those things where you got a fog and you can't remember it. So I don't know. I forgot what day it was, but it was some point in the week. I'm, you know, very soon after that. day or two or three, but not more. I'm swimming. And then I don't know, like lap 18, bam. That's where I've seen that. That's where I've seen that book. And I then realized I'm in possession of one of the, it's in the fine tradition of ties you got as a gift, you hand them down. Books you got as a gift, you hand them up and i'm in possession of that book so that's i wouldn't call it a new idea that changed the world yeah it's a good one though that's a good but but one of those things that moment that out of nowhere flash yeah it's i'm trying to think in the auto uh industry bailout um there's more there's different ones from my mayoral tenure that come about etc what's a mayoral decision that came from a swim well beyond the what i just told you from the libraries which is the co-locations right uh the one i had always had an obsession with getting pre-k done when i become mayor of chicago besides the fact that there's we had the shortest school day in the shortest school year we did not have full day kindergarten for every child in chicago did not have it and did not have pre-k in my first budget and real kind of tussle we get the uh we eliminate the funding for overtime for like the operating engineer the trades and the operating engineer for the school or other type of services and take that 25 million and put it into full day kindergarten for every child but i still have because in my sarah lawrence days i wanted to become a pre early childhood educator.

18:59Rahm Emanuel: Uh, I wanted to do pre-K and, um, I'm fighting with governor Rauner over rewriting the school funding formula and he doesn't want to do it. And I got a speaker of the house and the Senate president, they're for it. And there's been a longstanding fight going back to Richard J. Daly. Every mayor is trying to go to Springfield to get this rewrite because Chicago really does get kids get cheated. The governor's wife runs a organization called Ounce of Prevention, which is about investing in early time. So I make a private pledge that if we get a rewrite, I will use those resources. And that's an idea that comes in the pool that I'll go to his wife, who's a friend.

19:44Rahm Emanuel: And I told her that if I get this rewrite and we get the funding formula. There were other deals we were cutting. And this is an idea that comes from in the pool rather than try to keep persuading him, try to work this, that talking to his wife about a personal commitment that one of the things I will do is not just balance the budget or I will add universal pre-K for every child, for every four-year-old. And that's an idea that, how to untangle something we were at loggerheads about. And it was using another point of persuasion. That's just a simple idea. But it was something that, you know, obviously the pressure we were applying, he wanted to do other things to our schools.

20:23Rahm Emanuel: But that's another idea that came about from a swim. I love that. That's a window into kind of the role of your fitness. Also a nice little window into kind of Chicago, Illinois politics, I think. Getting shit done with using connections. Yeah, look, it was either persuasion or pressure. And in both cases, going to the spouse works. i'm gonna keep that in mind if i get into politics um i mean speaking of that you're you're thinking about a presidential run and i i just think about your fitness and i mean i know you've found ways to swim and do your yoga like traveling around as a member of congress and and traveling around with the president being in japan but i mean nothing compares to the rigor of six states in one day or barnstorming across Iowa?

21:14If you're imagining that as a possibility, how do you fit in a swim a day? How do you fit in weightlifting? How do you fit in three days of yoga? Is it the hotel gym?

21:23Rahm Emanuel: Let me say one other thing. Remember when Democrats were complaining that President Bush 43 was biking too much? I do. I covered that White House. I witnessed the biking. I witnessed the number of hours that were spent biking. Yeah, well, I never did that. And I said, guys, you don't know the pressure of the Oval Office. If you don't like his decisions today, you take exercise out, and you're really not going to like these decisions. It will get so much worse. Yeah, because anybody, you know, other presidents do golf or whatever. President Bush went from running for other reasons. He had to go to biking.

21:58Rahm Emanuel: I said, you can complain all you want. I think he needs it. You don't understand. Man, that office needs mental health breaks. And exercise is about the only place you can get it. Now, some people, the current occupant, President Trump, likes golf. President Eisenhower liked golf, but he also liked fly fishing. He had a pond put up at Camp David. So, you know, everybody has their own little thing. President Kennedy's sailing and other stuff. So I said, I wouldn't complain about President Bush and biking. I'm for it. I'd add 15, 20 minutes to the day for him to do it. So that's one. look, the campaign's one thing.

22:35Rahm Emanuel: You just got to figure it out. And every hotel has something. But not a pool. I mean, you get to say you're spending the night in Waterloo. Like, Waterloo's a lovely place in Iowa. I love the city. I've spent much time there. I don't know if there's a why. I don't know if there's a pool that you could. The good news is you just put Iowa up at the top again. I'm not sure that DNC is going to agree with you. That's fair. Yeah, that's true. Number two, I have started to talk to people about mapping out So let's assume it's, for argument's sake, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Nevada, and Michigan.

23:12Let's just assume that for this purpose. They really aren't going to be that prominent this next time around. Although I'm going to make a prediction.

23:17Rahm Emanuel: Let me just get away from my exercise obsession. Yeah. Iowa, by the summer, people are going to talk about as the most interesting state in 2026. And the reason is you have an open governor's race. You've had 16-year run for the Republicans. We have a great Democratic candidate. Two, you have an open Senate race. So not a lot of states have both of those open. I'm not talking about a vulnerable. I'm talking about open. We have a big primary, etc. But there's a very good couple Democrats, talented Republican. And then two of the four congressionals are very competitive. And what got Democrats realizing early on that maybe 2026 has the promise is that state Senate district all the way up in the northwest corner of the state where you flipped it by about 28 points, if I'm doing my memory correctly.

24:08Rahm Emanuel: So all that said, I believe while people are talking today, you and I are doing this. Oh, Texas, Texas, this. And I'm not saying Texas won't be playing. but nobody's looking at the government's rights. And I should probably left the biggest piece out. The rural economy is horrendous. And President Trump's tariffs, what he has done both to soybeans, wheat, pork, and ag implement products has been a devastation to that economy. And he's gone to his base and he kicked them right in the shins. But before, I do want to turn to politics, but I'm not going to like, where are you finding a pool in Reno on a Thursday morning?

24:46campaigning like a crazy person before the primary in nevada that's my question i will find okay i

24:53Rahm Emanuel: will find a pool and i'll invite you but don't you worry i'm gonna map this sucker out this is what i want i mean this this is the window i want we're gonna keep following your you think you're the only person that wants it or anybody who's working on my campaign will want me to have a pool because i will not i would be a mess this is this is this is going to be the great adventure of the 2028 race where where does rom swim um rom needs to swim three times a week swim i do i do want to ask you about uh something that you've been obsessing about um in the political realm i mean you have really carved out a um a message about the democratic party needing to de-emphasize the culture wars um that is one of the loudest messages at least i've heard from you what why is that such an obsession of yours right now?

25:39Rahm Emanuel: Well, the reason is because, uh, one is on a lot of it, I don't agree with. Um, that's just straight up. Two is I think it's a horrible electoral strategy and three, you consistently take on an 80, 20 issue to 20%. And fourth, probably most importantly on the presidential level, not true about other things, but if you look at president Kenny, president Clinton, president Obama, just to take three Kennedy's running for president. Every one of them had a kind of show either by sister soldier or father right or trip down to Texas to say, I'm not going to be a Catholic president or take direction from the Pope, that culturally they were locked in to mainstream values and also willing to say to a constituency, no, nobody's giving you the keys to the car.

26:29Rahm Emanuel: You can't say no to a friend and family member. And I say member of the coalition like that. And I also think, look, again, 2016, by way of example, I did an ordinance on bathroom access, but I never took my eyes off of high school graduation or reading and math scores. We went from 56 to 83 % in graduation. So yeah, we will be a culture of acceptance, but we're not going to be a culture of advocacy. Big difference. Not going to happen. And I think also we got ourselves way off track from where the American people are. And we made a bunch of secondary issues look like primary. And I think the American people are very accepting people, but we're talking about a kid's pronoun and 30 other kids can't tell you what a pronoun is.

27:15Rahm Emanuel: We're talking about taking Abraham Lincoln's name off a school and arguing about it. And we don't care whether the kids that go to the school know why Abraham, it's named after Abraham Lincoln, who he is and why he's an icon in American history. And so I think we got ourselves wrapped around an axle of culture. And the worst place to take the culture wars is to schools. They're for education. And now, which is one reason I went to Mississippi about a couple months ago, where their reading program has taken them from 49th to 9th in the country, is return schools to the fundamentals of reading and math excellence.

27:52Rahm Emanuel: And 50 % of our kids today, as you and I are sitting here, can't read or do math at grade level. And nobody seems to be worried about it. So to take your question, I think we got ourselves blinded. And that blind and that sense of talking about, I think, a set of issues that are not primary has not only caused us to look like we're off on a wild goose chase, but more importantly, we're not focused on why parents move from one neighborhood to another or why they pick to live where they live or ours, because they want their kids to learn how to read and do math. And we're not talking about it. So, I mean, I got like 20 other also explanations.

28:34No, but are you worried that that focus, obsession, is going to lose you support kind of in the more progressive wing of the Democratic Party if you decide to jump into all this in the next few years?

28:43Rahm Emanuel: Let me say this. If I worried about it, I wouldn't be saying it. And second of all, don't vote for me. If what you want is somebody that will talk about pronouns, locker room access, and bathroom access, and obsess about it, I'm not your guy. And I'm okay with that. And you should be okay with that. If you want to know about how to improve reading scores, or drive graduation rates up, or how to reform a community college or vocationally, that's what I'm talking about. You may not even like those ideas. But if what you are looking for is somebody that is going to obsess around a set of cultural issues, don't vote for me.

29:19Rahm Emanuel: You shouldn't vote for me. Look, I'm letting you know where I stand. My priority is going to be because you're sitting where you are and I'm sitting where I'm at because we had a good education. You got 50 % of your kids can't do reading and math at grade level. Now, I know one thing about governing. It's to choose. and you're going to know everything you got to know. You already know what I'm going to do on pre-K. You know what I'm going to do on elementary reading and math. You know what I'm going to do to reform our high schools. I just laid out a vocational ed plan to make sure we have enough carpenters, plumbers, and electricians.

29:54Rahm Emanuel: And in about three, four weeks, I'm going to lay out a comprehensive reform to community colleges and then eventually be a, you will know what I stand for. Now you may not like it, but you're going to know where I'm going to stand. You sound like you're in this. I mean, you're, you sound. motivated. Well, I am motivated because I actually think the country's, I think we've got some tough times that require a tough leader to make tough decisions. Well, and the stakes too. I mean, you told this, I heard you, I've heard you told this very incredibly powerful story about, I think it was a purse from a family member on the wall that you and your brothers would look at just every morning growing up.

30:33What, what, remind me what that is and why it's so important to you guys well when we were growing up in the family room in the middle of the wall

30:43Rahm Emanuel: was my uh grandmother's purse and that was framed it was a little red purse with a little kind of like only call them um pearls or diamonds but little shiny objects on it and above it was grandma and my two great-aunts ida and giddy and it had their passports framed above it it was one frame. And on either side of the wall, dad's side and mom's side, were relatives that never made it to America. Because of the Holocaust, because of the pogroms? Pogroms, or sent into the Soviet Siberia. So that was mom and dad's way of saying that

31:24Rahm Emanuel: you're an American, you won the lottery. You won the lottery of life. This is the greatest country and this is not a gift that should be dealt with frivolously or accidentally. And I think now, as you probably know, there's nothing subtle in a Jewish home. Nobody's kind of inferring anything. We just kind of tell you and slap you. And so that was mom and dad's way of reminding us that you have a responsibility to do something with your life and to make something of yourself. That's what my father would always say, to make something of yourself. And different relatives, you know, didn't make it.

32:01Rahm Emanuel: My father's family in 1907 leaves Odessa for Palestine. The family's original name is Auerbach. His, my uncle's name, who dies in 36 from a leg wound and infection from a bullet, his name was Manuel. And so the Emmanuel's name, the reason that it is, it's named after my dad's older brother who was 17 years in age difference. And everything about us was about, and I believe this. And my kids, Amy and I have tried to pass it on. Both of them, two of the three, went into the armed forces after college. I've told the kids, you've got to give something to this country. I think when you're an American, you won the lottery of life.

32:40Rahm Emanuel: And it's a gift. And we should be asked to do something for this gift to contribute to it. That's why I believe in universal national service. But that motivation, besides stuff growing up at the dinner table and other things, etc., those pictures, that purse, those passports were my parents' daily reminder to us, the responsibility we have. I mean, that sounds like the obsession to make a difference that comes as much from there as it does the kind of horrible health stuff that you went through. Yeah, I mean, all of it, you know, all of it. I'll give you a great story. so leah my baby i call her my baby she's 25.

33:24Rahm Emanuel: she appreciate that yeah she does yeah uh anyway i take her to israel for her bat mitzvah it's a father-daughter trip we're gonna go for two weeks i actually and on the trip i'm i happen to know him i was invited to speak at his uh conference Shimon Peres as president of Israel. And I'm asking him to oversee a signing between the University of Chicago and Arshevik Universities for water research. I bring Leia to her bat mitzvah. I tell the president this is Leia's bat mitzvah and this is the father-daughter trip. And Shimon Peres, and I will bastardize it with a cheap imitation of that Polish Lithuanian accent.

34:11Rahm Emanuel: says Leah, when you have your bat mitzvah, you're becoming adult. In life, there are two books, the guest book and the history book. Today forward, you decide whether your name will go in the guest book or the history book and how you live your life will determine. It's beautiful. Yeah, and so I think that kind of that ethos, the pictures on the family wall, the dinner table, there was a lot expected of us as a family and a lot expected that here in this country because you're American, because of what it's provided your family, going back to my mother's father who comes leaving the pogroms in Moldova comes to Chicago, 14 years old a lot is expected

35:05Ambassador, we always wrap up our show with like a little lightning round about about other obsessions that are in your life. I wonder if there's an obsession that you have only told maybe your wife and kids about, but that you're willing to let us all know about here.

35:24Rahm Emanuel: Well, I don't know. My kids are my obsession. So that's an obsession. They know that all through well. I have a reading obsession. I try to read a book. I read a book about one a month and I try to read one each year with each of my children. I already have one picked. Alana and I have one picked out for the summer. You all read at the same time and then talk about it. Alana and I, I'll read one. I'll read something with Leah and I'll read something with Zach. So like Zach and I, about, I don't know, five months ago, four months ago, we read Jay Winnick's 1861 together. We both love history. What were the conversations like after reading it together?

36:04Rahm Emanuel: we talked about different things that we learned that we didn't know and we learned and you know why you know we both have an obsession that lincoln's the greatest president ever etc um what's another ups that but the reading is an obsession why why why are you obsessed with lincoln as the best president ever i mean i i know the general argument why he was an extraordinary president i'm just wondering wondering what you're what you're uh because Because I think Lincoln beats not only all expectations, he holds the country together at a moment. Also, he doesn't start the war under slavery, even though he has feelings about it.

36:41Rahm Emanuel: And he gauges politically the right time and the right moment in both the war, the country, the psychology for the Emancipation Proclamation, and then makes that the driving factor. But I saw for a lot of reasons, I think, Lincoln and he most importantly, probably is, I think, and this is captured by Gary Wills's book, Gettysburg. He knows how to we weaves the themes of the Declaration and independence into the fabric of the Constitution and intellect. And here's a guy I think go to a four year institution, think wasn't a kind of a scholar or anything. he's not only a great politician he's a great thinker he's a great president and I believe that leadership is knowing why you're doing what you're doing and then having the strength to get it done if you look at our great leaders both in public life and not but mainly in public life they know why they're doing what they're going to do and then they have the strength and courage to get it done our weirdest obsession in your life?

37:46Rahm Emanuel: I would think where we started my exercise. Where is obsession in my life? Oh, I would give you a bad habit obsession. Perfect. Okay. Cause I get up in the morning exercise and I change over there. I don't want to think about it. Monday is a white shirt. Tuesday's a blue shirt. Wednesday's a striped shirt. Monday's a Thursday's a white shirt and Friday's a blue shirt every week yeah because i don't have to think about it it's monday white shirt yeah and i and i know it's it is it was it comes out of exercise but it's like a very bizarre it's a habit slash obsession if you look like today monday i know yeah i could i could look at you on camera and know the day of the week i mean that's amazing yeah yeah if you look at i have books photo books for my mayoral day i have them for my chief of staff days except for the photographers that you look at i could say that was that day i might adopt that i love the idea of not thinking about i mean jesus that's like you spend so much time kind of yes in the closet and thinking with those pants and that's it you don't have to think about it's over have there been consequences if you ever got it wrong and wore the wrong color on a i don't know if it's wrong but it does throw it throws the entire dry cleaning off you gotta keep that in order it's amazing this this is these are obsessions on the borderline yeah maybe blue cross blue shield will cover this one day i think they might all right the last the last one is an obsession that kind of scares you well i don't know that scares me but there's another obsession i love so i love doing dishes i do too my wife tries she tries to give me credit for it she's like honey thank you for doing dishes i was like i just it's so it's meditative going back to water on your hands water on your hands yeah so backs to everybody and mess clean yes dry yes and you're just doing you have a clear objective yes and it's just yes and so when we were growing up and it's actually held for all of us zeke would do uh help mom make dinner our responsibility was to set the table.

40:00Rahm Emanuel: My responsibility was to clean it and then do the dishes. And to this day, Amy, it's where we're sitting, we're empty nesters now. And she'll go, the goal here is to eat dinner. The goal is not to finish fast. So you get to clean the dishes. And I like, yeah. We done with dessert? Were you finished with that? Yeah. Give me your plate. Give me your plate. I want to go. The water's running. Let's go. It's a weird, but I love make dinner. I can't wait to start cleaning up. I love tasks where there is just, it's methodical. There's a beginning. There's an end. There's a result. So when Amy and I are dating, my mother shows her my first grade report card.

40:39Rahm Emanuel: You know what it says? Rom likes cleanup even after cleanup time. First grade. Says it all. There it is. That's a weird, you got to admit, that's weird. Yeah. It's weird, but I can relate. And also weird. Yeah. It's weird, but there's warm water running over your hands and you're task driven. And I hate to say this, but you're back to everybody. You can just stay focused on what you're doing. You don't have to pay attention to other people's feelings. I love that part of it too. You're not managing anyone's feelings. You're just literally cleaning dishes. Exactly. Yeah. Well, listen, Ambassador, it was a real pleasure catching up.

41:18Yeah. But best of luck in whatever you decide in the next few years.

41:22Rahm Emanuel: You have a research project. What's that? Swimming pool in Reno. Yeah, you got to go look. Take New Hampshire, Dover, some of the other cities. Go find me a pool. You want me to do New Hampshire? Your staff's going to handle Nevada? I'll take South Carolina and Charlotte, Columbia, Greenville, Spattenberg. I'll figure it out. I will find swimming pools in New Hampshire for you. Okay, that's your goal. Yeah, mission accepted. This has been a lot of fun. Thank you. A lot of fun, Ambassador. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

41:59David Green is obsessed as a production of Campside Media. It is hosted by me, David Green. Our senior producer is Lane Rose. We are mixed by Ewan Leitrimuen. The executive producers of Campside Media are Vanessa Gregoriadis, Matt Scherr, and Josh Dean. Special thanks to our operations team, Ashley Warren and Sabina Mara. If you have an obsession you would like to share, hope you do, you can send us an email. The address is obsessed at campsidemedia.com. That's obsessed at campsidemedia.com. And hey, if you enjoyed the show, please rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. Really appreciate you listening.

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