10 Things Thom Filicia Has Learned After Decades in Interior Design

0:00Hello, everyone. Welcome to Dear Alice. Today, we had Thom Filicia on the podcast. How fun was that? He's the best. He makes our job so easy. Life of the party. We talked about space planning and product design and development and people skills. No, I'm like tips for like young designers to getting into the industry, things that you should be paying attention to and why it's important to be great with people. Yeah. Thom's a great example of all that. I can't wait for you guys to jump into this interview. Let's do it. Hi, Tom. Hey, guys. How are you? Tom, great. I'm from hot as hot can be in New York City.

0:35Oh, blessed. Well, you look very cool for being so hot. Yeah, you do. Tom's always cool. I know. Tom is an internationally acclaimed interior designer and founder of Tom Felicia. Sometimes I tell people I'm a porn star and just to sort of see their face. Oh, my gosh. Let's go with... You heard it here. Put that in the title. I work mostly in porn. Yeah. That's nice. Just kidding. Interior design, it's very different. That's amazing. But they do a lot of work in bedrooms. I love it. That's awesome. Tom's recognized for his timeless interiors and influential voice in design. After earning a BFA in interior design at Syracuse University, he began his career at renowned firms such as Parrish Hadley.

1:20I did not know that, Tom. Yes. That's a fun fact. Robert Metzger interiors, as well as Bill Huber and Associates. Yeah. Those are some really awesome. Yeah. I even moonlighted for Alan Tanksley. I think I would say it was pretty much 10 years of, oh, not 10 years, eight years of intense fun. Yeah. I worked for Albert Hadley. I just saw David Kleinberg last night at an event. I worked for him while I was there. I worked for Libby Cameron. She was in the office. I worked for Michael Zabriskie and I was kind of like all over the office. I was right out of college. I would do anything, draw anything, shop for anything.

1:53I was like, whatever, I'll do it. And it was super fun. And then I went and worked with, after that, I was there for about a year. And then, well, I did an internship one year. Then I went back out of college. And then I went to and worked with Robert Metzger. I think I was there for three years. And then that was fun and crazy. And he was amazing. And then unfortunately, he passed away. And then I worked for Jeffrey Bill Huber for another three and a half years. and he was amazing and super talented and lots of fun. And I still love seeing him whenever I, you know, whenever I'm out at design events, he's always great to catch up with him.

2:30And he was super talented and lots of fun. And we got along really well. And then I went off on my own, which I thought was going to be like the easiest thing in the world. And then I was going to go on my own schedule and go on vacation all the time. It was going to be so easy because I wasn't going to have a boss. I was going to be able to do whatever I wanted. And then I woke up and I was like, that is not in all the situation ever. That's hilarious. My new boss is my client. I can't go anywhere for very long because you have payroll and all of this, the rent. I know. The office space and the showroom.

3:07So it's all crazy, but it's good. I like it. Yeah, and you've been on your own since you formed Tom Felicia Inc. in 98, right? In 98, yeah. And I was, yeah, so I had the design company for two or three years, I think. And then I started working on Queer Eye, which was, and I kept the company going. So I was doing both. Wow. Filming the TV show during the day and then running to the office in the afternoon, like four or five o 'clock and doing work in the office and everyone would leave for me and kind of, and then I would leave it out. And then I would go home and get up and shoot a TV show and then come back.

3:42It was crazy. That was nuts. Speaking of Queer Eye, we heard that you might have a new show concept. Is there anything you can tell us about that? We do, actually. It's an interesting show. We'll see. It's, you know, we're kind of in the infancy of it right now, but it's a really cool concept. I can't really talk about it. Oh, okay. No, but it's fun. It's a fun show. I think it's interesting and timely and fun and kind of a little different than what a lot of people would think of. Will it surround interiors? Will you get to be the interior designer on the show? It is. It's about interior design.

4:19It's pretty much an interior design and lifestyle. Awesome. I don't feel like there's any good TV shows about interior design right now. So I think it is, when you say timely, I think it's time for a great show. And I know they just, obviously, Queer Eye, the second edition, just canceled. So that's no longer. I can't believe it. I'm like, I wonder if there'll be a third version of it. I mean, I love that it kept going. I thought it was really cool that it did. It was great to still have it, you know, be a thing that people even knew was a thing because prior to the second one, you know, people were like, what?

4:54Like younger people just had no idea what it was. What year did your show start? The first Queer Eye? The first Queer Eye started in 93. For real? 2003. That's what I remember. And then how long did it run for? Sorry, sorry. 93 is when I graduated from college. Yeah, 2003. 2003. And then how many seasons did you guys get? I think we were on for four or five years. Four years, maybe? I loved your, like, when you guys were on. I did, too. It was fun. Yeah, that was fun. Our, you know, our show was very different than the second one because, look, the issues were a lot different back then. You know, guys didn't know about hair product and they had pizza boxes under their bed.

5:30It was a lot more fun at that level because I think our issues were really sort of simple, easy kind of thing. Guys were just starting to think about their haircuts or think about fashion or think about designing their homes. So we were really engaging them with things that I think were fun to get engaged with. I think the second version got a little bit more about, you know, they dug a lot deeper because I just think that was part of the social fabric at, you know, the time that they were, you know, doing their show. And it still is. So I think that they were dealing with, you know, people feeling just really much more in-depth, personal journeys that ours were just kind of silly and fun.

6:19And because of that, I think it was a lot of fun. I mean, ours was insanely fun. We were basically the first springboard to make the connection. And then they took it and went a little bit deeper than we did. I know you were like influencers before influencers. Pioneers of all that. Yeah. Thank God there were no. like social media camera phones and social media we would hold it three four to five of us would be in prison things people used to say just were insane compared like today you could never you would be so much trouble right so true i think that's what's so fun about watching the office back is that you're like you could never say that you couldn't do that you couldn't do that anymore i just got into watching old episodes of in living color and oh my gosh oh my god you cannot believe what they were doing seriously i can't believe what was happening on Yeah, seriously.

7:09It was the Wild West. But those of you that didn't see the first round of Queer Eye, Tom played the role that Jeremiah Brandt played. So he was the one that did interior design and obviously did it for four or five seasons. And it was just so fun to see Tom's take in interiors. And also, Tom, I think for all of the different people that you worked for, your style is really different from Parrish Hadley, from Robert Metzger, from Bill Huber. you have a really, really cool fresh take on, I don't know, I don't even want to say traditional. That classic American kind of thing, you know, like. But different than Ralph Lauren.

7:44Very, yeah. You know, more casual, I'd say, and a little more fun. And you can really see yourself living this way. Yeah. So many people can relate to Tom. You know, I like the idea of interiors being, feeling very, I would say, easy and authentic and fresh and have a sense of place. So I like when they really make sense for where they are. You know, I think interiors really should feel like an extension of the person or the people that live in that environment and what the intention of that environment is for. Like, is it primary or is it secondary? Is it a beach? Is it mountain? Is it lake? Is it what is it?

8:24Is it formal, informal? Is it architecturally rich? Is it just clean and simple? You know, is it historical? understanding all of that and connecting all of those dots is so much fun and then also really understanding the people or the person that lives there or maybe even the brand if you're working with a hotel group or a restaurant or something like that so it's really fun to understand kind of all of those points and then sort of connect all of those dots i think that's really cool i feel like to me that's the magic of interiors is that you know if done right it can make you feel like a part of the environment you're in.

8:59If you're in the city, you should feel like that and feel that energy. Right. You should feel that texture, that energy, that sensibility, that lifestyle that you're going to be having while you're there. And maybe it's a reaction to that. Maybe it's something that sort of calms you down a little bit and slows you down. But it has a sense of place. It's an extension of the environment. It relates to the architecture. of course, it relates very much hopefully to the people that live there and is an extension of their personality and their sensibility. You know, some people love to cook or they love to entertain.

9:34Some people are homebodies. They love to read. Some people are watching movies and you should be able to walk into an interior and feel like, you know, if one of your good friends just redid their house, you'd want to walk in and go, oh my God, this is so Steven, or this is, you know, so Elizabeth or you know you want it to feel like the people that live there and then oh my god this is literally like if you were a house this would be I think that's kind of a cool I love that way to see it and I feel like no one is a better expert with people than you are and I think one of the things that impressed me the most in the first few seasons I'll say seasons now that we saw and worked with you when we come out to Vanguard and see your launches and things if anybody can't already understand this Tom is the life of the room you are the party of the room I'd vote for you just based on all this.

10:22But even if you'd be talking to somebody or engaging with someone and you'd catch our eye, you would acknowledge us and make us feel important, even though we know that this is your, anyway, you just have such an ability of making everybody around you feel important. And I have no doubt that that's the same way with your clients and this idea of representing them in their space. Yeah. And try, I mean, thank you for that. That's really awesome. I definitely want the clients to feel like the space is truly an extension of kind of them and that I'm actually using their sort of personality and their sensibility and their aesthetic as a springboard for decisions that are being made.

11:03I'm not only looking at it from my point of view, I'm looking at it, of course, from the point of view that I have based on understanding the architecture, the location, the overall design concept, our budget, our timeline, all of those other things. But then I'm also looking at the person and going, but is this going to connect with that person? And is this going to be an authentic reflection of, are they going to feel comfortable and at ease and feel like this is kind of for them? It's like, you know, you're shopping with a friend and they put on, I don't know, a pair of pants or a sweater or something and you just look at them and you go, that is just, it's not, that's not you.

11:38It's off-brand. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't feel right. You don't even wear it right. It looks like it's wearing you. What tips do you have for especially young designers? Because we always say it's a people business. We just happen to be good at design. Trying to work with people. What tips do you have for young designers to really understand the importance of being good with people? I think the first thing I would say is that we all have to keep in mind that design is for people. It's not just for the sake of design. If you're designing something, I don't know anything really, but I mean, there's almost, you know, I think sometimes people get so wrapped up in the design that they forget this is really for people.

12:16If it's really interesting and cool, but it's not comfortable, or it's not inviting, or it's not approachable, or I don't know, it's just, if it doesn't have those qualities, if people do not want it, you can make a beautiful restaurant, but if people are not comfortable in that restaurant and it doesn't make people want to be there, then it's not a great design and it could be beautiful to look at. So a successful design is when you just, you know, like when you have to turn the vacuum on to get people out of the house.

12:47That's great. You know what I mean? Like, you know, that's when it's a good party, right? When you kind of have to look around and go, oh my God, I think I'm just going to go to bed and hopefully they'll get the hint. But that's a good problem to have, right? But the thing is, is from a design perspective, I do think I would say do not forget that at the end of the day, you're designing for people. Design is for people. So if people just love this and they gravitate towards it and they want it and they that's that's great design. That is what great design is. Yeah. And if you look at something and you're like, this is so beautiful, but people are afraid to touch it because it looks like they're going to get cut or it's going to hurt to sit on it.

13:26or, you know, it's just, that may not be, that's not really what it's about. And it really, that's a sculpture. You know, that's when you're designing something to be just to look at it. Yeah, good point. If you're making fine art and you're designing this beautiful, interesting sculpture, yes, absolutely, because you want it to be something that hopefully makes people think and doesn't generally need to be very comfortable because you're usually not sitting on it. But I think in our world of design, it has to be something where people are just like, can't get enough of it. We spend our careers helping clients discover themselves through design.

14:05Has a client ever influenced your taste? Oh, gosh. Yeah. I mean, I think so. You know, I think clients are really interesting in terms of they've influenced my taste, certainly. And I will tell you when they do, it's really cool. and it's always people that have a very sort of strong distinct style i think that can do that really understand their style and they're comfortable in their skin that's the first thing but i will tell you i think a lot of times it's really more about the way like sometimes i have clients that love to cook right so you you kind of walk through the kitchen with them and when you're designing it and all of a sudden there's a lot of stuff that comes to the table that you start to really think about from a person who really loves to cook.

14:54Whereas I love to entertain and entertaining has to do with cooking, but someone who really loves to cook is different. You know, that's a different thing. So I learned a lot through that. I've learned a lot through, I love to entertain and have people around. So my interior is really set up for that. You know, it's really nice when you have a client that really is kind of a homebody and loves to be by themselves and have really great quality time at home with their dog. And they're just reading and relaxing and it's quiet. And all of a sudden, when you start working with them and laying things out, it takes on a different format and you learn from that.

15:36And then you start to realize when you're meeting with clients, when you learn that you really have the ability to implement those ideas into other people's environments when you feel like that fits their personality. And it wouldn't be intuitive to me to think about, oh, my God, you know what? That's where I'm going to sit and read my book. Because as a person with ADD, I'm running around in and out, up and down. So I never stop. So it's nice when people, when you work with people, they're not running around. They're lounging, they're laying, they're napping and reading. And they don't have like 15 people coming over for drinks and then everyone's going to dinner and then coming back out.

16:17They don't do that. And so I'm like, oh, so you don't need all this stuff tonight.

16:24Kind of riffing off of that is do you have a passion outside of interiors that influences your design? Outside of interior design, I do love to be on the water. I love, as I was telling you earlier, it's summer. I'm in New York City. I also have a house out in the Hamptons and I have a boat out there. And I really love being on the water, being just that kind of environment. In the winter, I'm a big skier and I'm in Colorado a lot. I have a place in Colorado and I love that. And being on the mountains and just being in that kind of environment. and I'm in Aspen and I love it. And so it's one of those things where I do think those influence my design a lot.

17:09I have a lot of energy and I love to be out and I love to be doing and boating and skiing and swimming. And so that's kind of a part of, I love that easiness of that. I love the sort of, I don't know, I like, there's a lot of the aesthetic that I have, I think comes from the things that I like to do in my spare time. I also think that, you know, when you're on a boat and you're entertaining, it is amazing what you have to do to make that work. And you have to be very thoughtful about what you're doing, what you have, what you don't have, how you're going to do it, how it's going to, you know what I mean?

17:51You just have to, you really have to be on your game with all that. And I think that really is very helpful for me when I'm designing because you really do think about where everything goes and where to store everything and where things are when things are moving. Yeah, you have to think of daily logistics. Like how are they really going to operate in this? Very much about logistics. It's very much about the details. So it keeps you very focused in that space. And I think in terms of what we all do, I think those details are really, really important. I noticed immediately, and I think it drives everyone that worked with crazy, but I will notice that the lamps do not see light bulbs, like just walking by.

18:35Temperature is everything. I'm in a rush. That light's different. And they're like, what? Where I'm like, that's whiter. I can see the outline of the interior of lampshade because it must not be frosted. and then I walk out the door and they're like... That's awesome. Everybody's unscrewing their light bulbs, changing things before you come back. It's almost like a weird... There are days where you're like, I wish I didn't notice all that. Yeah, seriously. Life would be easier. What is one of the first things you see when you walk in a home? What's one of the first things you notice? I would say the layout of the furniture.

19:09The furniture layout. Space planning. Because I will tell you, I don't... your furniture could be the furniture you don't want. It could be the furniture that is, do you want to get rid of? And you, when you're saving up for the furniture you want, but putting it in the wrong place is free. Yeah. Putting it in the right place is also free. Yeah. Yeah. So true. So if nothing else, use the furniture you don't want to at least get the furniture layout, right? Yeah. You know what I mean? Don't, Totally. Don't have your beautiful king-size bed looking at a door or staring at a toilet when there's a window behind you.

19:48You know what I mean? You've got to think about what you're looking at when you're in bed and what you're not looking at and where the light is coming in. It's so easy. You know, a lot of times people, the first thing I know, it's when I go into a house is how people follow the guy that put the cable wire in the house who had nothing to do with anything other than that was the closest wall to his truck. Yeah. The TV is in front of a window. Yeah. And you're just like in front of a thing in front of the window. And from outside, you're looking at the back of the television. You're like, guys, I don't think this is where this is supposed to go.

20:27And then the sofa is now in the wrong place. and so are the chairs. So I really noticed the layout. And it's very hard for me to go to somebody's house. Friends will get a new apartment or whatever, and I'll go to their house. And they're like, what do you think of the apartment? Isn't it great? And I'm just like, I'm making excuses for them to go to the store and get something. I'm like, you know, why don't you just run out for a second? And then I move everything around. And they come and go, what happened? I go, just live with it for an hour, and if you don't like it, I'll put it back. It was driving me crazy.

21:00Tom, would you say that's one of your favorite parts of the job is space planning? I do because I think it's funny. I was just in a meeting with one of the two of the designers from my office and I'm like furniture layouts and space planning and really knowing how to use the space and figuring out how to optimize the space and how to really take advantage of both the layout, the architecture, the flow. Yeah, I think it's really important. And I think, you know, that is the foundation of the design is sort of because you have really beautiful things. And if you just put them in all the wrong places, it looks like really beautiful things that are interesting.

21:40And they could be really even more stunningly beautiful if it was in a space that had good flow and that worked and that made sense. and have balance and have proportion and scale and all of those things that come out of space planning and out of doing a great lab. So after decades in the industry, like we mentioned, is there something that makes you nervous still? Tom's like, I haven't been nervous in decades. What makes me nervous are nervous people. Oh, yeah, actually, good point. Nervous people make me nervous. I love clients who are not... I love working with people and working for people that are comfortable in their skin, confident with ideas, effortlessly jump in and just get it.

22:23And even if they don't get it, they're trying to get it or want to get it or in the process of getting it. And that's fun. I love when people have, you know, point of view and ideas and really start to understand. I mean, you know, I always say 80 % of what we are doing, you just kind of learn on the fly. So true. You know, no one can teach you about there's certain things you just have to kind of absorb you know obviously working with ai or working with cad or working with different programs that's technical and you have to learn that i get that but there's a lot of stuff it's just about having fun with it you know what i mean playing with pillows on a sofa and you get a sense of how you like to do it making a bed a few different ways and sort of looking at it do you like the pillows flat do you like them propped up do and it might be just the bed the bedding the type of flan doesn't, some things look better in different ways.

23:18And I also don't like every room to be the same. So it's funny, you just, there's certain things you learn. And then there are certain things you learn about yourself that you just like, you know, that you kind of see that there's a certain kind of detail that you like. I learned that about myself in, you know, years ago, but it is an interesting moment, I think, in a creative person's life, whether you're a designer or architect or, you know, anything, anything within the world of being sort of creative. I just think that when you start to really understand your point of view and understand that you have one, I think that's really interesting because the thing that used to make me nervous is when people years ago used to say, describe your aesthetic.

24:05I was like maybe a few years in the business. It was a really scary question because I kind of know what I love, but I didn't really see it as an aesthetic yet because I didn't really see it as a fully formed concept. And now it is definitely a fully formed concept. I definitely know my area, my space, and I love it. And it feels really great to me. and I love when it makes sense to other people. And I also like mixing elements and I'm always learning and looking at new things and evolving. And for example, we were just looking at fabrics and fabrics that I'm picking out today are not fabrics I would have picked out five years ago.

24:51And it might go through a little bit of a cycle. I think some things, I think we were overly bouclayed for a while. So I think that's been, we put a pin in that for a minute. And I think that sort of the idea of bringing some elements in that are a little quirky and fun, or maybe even a little bit unexpected and a little bit less tailored, maybe a little bit more classic or timeless, is kind of interesting at the moment, bringing those elements in. I don't know. It's funny. It just, you know, I think as a designer, you kind of, you know, you are doing things maybe a little bit ahead of the curve and then you're undoing things a little bit ahead of the curve, which is really interesting.

25:39Well said. I know. Yeah. I do have a question on that. You were just mentioning this a second ago, but is there a design principle or a movement that you have changed your mind about over the years? This is something X amount of years ago, I would not have done. But today I'm really considering it. It's part of my point of view. Because as that evolves, obviously, things come and things go. But what has come back? You know, what you're really stoked about? I don't know if I've ever said I wouldn't do something. Yeah. You know what I mean? I think I'm pretty open to new ideas or concepts or even old ideas that I see maybe in a different way.