Benjamin Johnston: Secrets to Timeless Interiors

0:00K-pop Demon Hunters, Saja Boys Breakfast Meal, and Huntrix Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi? It's not a battle. So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day. It is an honor to share. No, it's our honor. It is our larger honor. No, really. Stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side. And participate in McDonald's while supplies last. Spring just slid into your DMs. Grab that boho look for that rooftop dinner, those sandals that can keep up with you, and hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up.

0:40Spring's calling. Ross, work your magic. Hello everybody, welcome to Dear Alice. Today we have a really special treat for you. As you guys are gearing up for High Point Market, those of you that are going, it's the end of this week. And we thought it'd be fun to have one of our favorites come on the podcast as kind of a market week. We have Benjamin Johnston here with us. And we actually met Benjamin last fall at High Point at the Chaddock showroom as we were going in to see his line. And such a treat to get to see him in his own area. And so it might be fun for you, those of you that are going to market, if you pop by Chaddock.

1:18Benjamin, you'll be in, you have a whole bunch of lines. Are you going to be mostly at Chaddock or where else could they find you? I will be at Chadwick most of the time, but because it's also the launch of our book, I will be doing a keynote. I'm one of the fall market keynotes, along with some other fantastic designers. It's part of the DLN. They're doing a special keynote on kitchen and bath design. So I'll be there for the keynote, but most of the rest of the time I should be in the Chadwick showroom. Amazing. Well, definitely stop by. His scene is obviously one of our favorites, and he's just so personable and easy to talk to.

1:51So make sure and approach him because he's one of the designers that will definitely say hi, talk to you about design and even explain his pieces to you, which he's worked so hard on. But those of you that maybe haven't heard of Benjamin, I just wanted to quickly give you a little intro. He is the creative partner of Benjamin Johnston Design, an award-winning internationally published firm celebrated for creating classic, curated and effortlessly cool spaces around the globe. He's also an author of a brand new book, Refined Interiors, Timeless Homes for Modern Living, a must read for anyone who loves sophisticated spaces with soul.

2:26Welcome, Benjamin Johnston, to Dear Alice. We're so excited to have you here and to have our guests get to meet you as well. I am so honored to be here. Thank you for having me.

2:36Benjamin Johnston:Do you go by Benjamin or yeah, what do you prefer? I go by Ben, but there's a funny story behind that. and you can Google this gentleman. His name is also Ben Johnston and he looks remarkably like me, but he's a graphics street artist in Toronto and Canada and he does all this really cool design work. And it's a lot of times that people would Google me, they'd see him thinking it was me and seeing his work and being like, I just don't understand what it is that you do. Like what don't you do? I do not have that talent. I just had to kind of adopt my full first name just so people wouldn't get confused when they were searching for me.

3:16I think you guys should collaborate. I think that'd be fine. Oh, 100%. Have a meet cute. Maximize that SEO. He's so cute. Yeah, but feel comfortably calling me then. That's what I prefer. Cool.

3:29Benjamin Johnston:Well, since we're catching you mid-work week, where are you at in the world right now? I am in Houston, Texas, which is my home, and I am here at our offices, and I have an amazing view of downtown Houston right in front of me. cool thanks for joining us thanks for being on the podcast like Jess said we're super excited to have you yes one thing as an interior designer you know we do this for the love of the game it's not the easiest job which I think which I think is very much like misinterpreted on tv shows that and everybody that finds out you're an interior designer right they're like oh my gosh that's so fun I want to do that and it's really really difficult what we do but we do it for the love of the game because we're passionate about it what drove that passion for you like where did this like start?

4:12Where was this born? You know, it's interesting. You should say that. I mean, I think for me, what motivated me then still motivates me now, but it also, it's kind of taken on different layers as I've gotten older. But when I was a young kid, I just, you know, I was fascinated by this notion of being creative and just like creating things. I just, I think for me, that drive has always been there. It's always been inherent to just my DNA. And I love the notion that we could storytell. I mean, I was fascinated by movie sets. I was fascinated by just incredible. We'd go, my great aunts would take us to the ballet and we'd see all their gorgeous set design.

4:50And I just thought how spectacular the ability to create this environment, you know, really was. It was like magic to me. So for me, I think I, I didn't really know that I wanted to be, you know, an interior designer. And now with an architecture firm. I didn't know that that was going to be my path from a young age, but I found my way there and full circle. I just, I see obviously those influences and I see what I'm doing now and it's obviously interconnected, but the path was definitely a meandering one. Yeah. So 10 year old Ben would be so stoked if he got a glimpse of what you was doing right now.

5:24So that's very, very cool. They say you want to make your eight-year-old self proud and your 80 year old self proud. And I would like to say that my eight year old self would be very proud of where, where I've gone and what I've done, the opportunities that have been, you know, have come my way. Amen.

5:39Benjamin Johnston:That's cool. Speaking of opportunities that have come your way, I think the designers would love to know if there was a project that really just stretched you so completely. I think about this in our own firm, there was a certain project that we got in and it just, we were like Stretch Armstrong on this project. And because of that opportunity, it completely changed the way we worked. And you found out about yourself that this was a capability, but it was so, so hard. I don't know. Did you have a moment like that, that sort of took you from good to great or that kind of where you realized your greatness?

6:16Well, I will never say I feel great. But at anything, I mean, I really, honestly, I don't think the thing I love about our industry and I love about the people that this industry attracts is that we're always striving to grow. We're always striving to stretch and we're always looking for new opportunities to be creative and new in different ways and express ourselves in different ways. So for me, I don't know if I'll ever feel that way, but what I will say is that actually doing my own personal home after years of being able to do other people's homes, but just finally doing it for myself. Y 'all know this, you'll have done your own homes.

6:52It's like, it sounds like it would just be fun and effortless because you're designing for yourself and like, nobody's telling you what to do, but in a way it is that much harder. And you have to think, like, for me, I went into my house saying, I'm going to do all the things that my clients never let me do. You know, I'm going to do all the things that I have wanted to try out, but it may have been because of money or because of complexity or because we didn't have the right level of craftsman, craftsman who was able to execute it, I would hold back. So for my house, I was like, you know what, I'm going to do all the things.

7:27I'm going to do all the things that people told me I couldn't do. And I'm going to work through this and I'm going to learn how it's, how that's going to, you know, affect me. And as a designer, I got out of that experience thinking, oh my goodness like I I felt exhausted and like I would wake up in the middle of the night just in like terror like just did I make the wrong decision I would say that that was the project that I'm so proud of I've grown so much through that process but I will also say it was absolutely terrifying from start to finish harrowing harrowing experience let me just quickly give a shout out so this on the cover of Benjamin's book is his entryway.

8:08And also, fun fact, he was just barely featured on Homeworthy and he takes you through his home on a long form content. It's probably around 45 minutes. And he will take you room by room, almost piece by piece and explain why and what. And it's just so fun to have a front row seat, especially knowing the background, what you just said of just the complexity of doing a designer's own home, which is its own special kind of torture. And, and I don't know for you, if you have some, you probably a lot of your employees on the firm, or maybe you have like a super trusted person where you're like, which one am I?

8:45Because I, I can't, like you kind of have an identity crisis, or at least I feel like that. And so I'll be like, Suze, remind me again. I think I could be happy with both. And she's like, duh, you're the one on the left. And I'm like, okay, thank you. That's, that's what I thought. Did you have anybody in your office or do you have a person or, or maybe it's your, maybe it's your partner at home. Who do you, who do you rely on? Who's your true North? I would say my true North is, is always going to be my partner, Eric. He's also the managing partner of our firm. So we live and work together. It's our, it was our house together.

9:19And he true, I mean, he is, he's one of those people. He's so, we appreciate all the same things, but like, he is just so focused and he like, there'll be a lot of news and noise in the world. And he just like, he's able to just tune it all out and like keep me centered and focused throughout it. And so for me, that has been, he was definitely the person I relied on. But I will also say I had so much fun working with our team. You know, we do architecture and interior. So we have these amazingly talented guys in our office and men and women, I should say. And, and one of the team members that I was working with most closely, his name's Mark.

9:57Mark and I I just had just like the best time hashing out details and sketching it and getting it just absolutely perfect. So I really enjoyed that closeness of that experience working on the house in that way as well. And when did you complete the home? I completed the home two and a half years ago. Again, it was a 30 month build. And those of you, I don't know if y 'all are familiar with Erin Stetzer. She's kind of a well-known contractor who has an incredible channel. I love her. Yeah, so she was the one who built my home, and it was a wonderful, wonderful experience, but it was also built during the pandemic, so it was also a harrowing experience from the standpoint of, like, we couldn't get windows, we couldn't get doors, we couldn't get, like, our appliances, it was supposed to be, like, a 24-month build, and it took 30, which, in hindsight, no big deal, but it was almost a three-year process to build the house, and I was very excited about moving in.

10:51I'll bet you are okay question for you is is there a project that has felt completely aligned with your design DNA and I I guess for this I don't know if it's maybe working with a client because that's such a unique thing we were just talking before we recorded about how you don't really know what you're saying yes to when you take on a project you know you're kind of both in this first date process of deciding if if you know if we're the right firm for the client usually it's that. It's not usually, are you the right client for my firm? It's usually, you know, are we right for you? And then we start to, we sign a contract and we get going and we're like, wow, okay, this, this is different than I thought, right?

11:29Is there a project that you felt completely aligned with Design DNA? Really just, just the work felt fun and the wind was like in your sails and it felt a little bit easier than normal. You're excited to go there. Yeah, no, I think that's a great question. I mean, we had a client who's actually featured in the book. It's actually the last chapter. And what was really interesting in the book, I should say, what was really interesting about it was a client who just was fiercely committed to, she trusted us with the vision and she had done a fabulous job kind of expressing what she and her husband wanted.

12:04And so like we were so in sync that a lot of times when we would suggest things, it was always, it was always the first thing we showed them. It was, it was not the, you know, 30th thing that we showed them that we could settle on. So it felt lighter and easier. And, you know, when you get to know clients so well, it just can just naturally happen. And we were able to take a lot of risk with that house as well. So it's kind of a bonkers house and it was fun to do it. Love that. When the client, when you can trust them, they can trust you. Like things just go so beautifully and so seamlessly less expensive quicker you know and usually and usually a better outcome the best outcome and you know it's really when you when those clients do come along you just you just have to like just like hold on to them because they're they're so kind and it's such a pleasurable fun experience that I think that's something I'll cherish forever yeah and it's kind of addicting I'm sure the client's like so let's do it again next project because it kind It becomes like their hobby.

13:08Yeah. And it's kind of like you can't quit each other because you're making this beautiful music together.

13:13Benjamin Johnston:I'm always like afraid to jinx it. I'm just like, if things are going too smooth right now, there's always like I try not to like think about I'm just like, OK, just let it be what it is, you know. But yeah, I think that's true of just living in the moment as well. I mean, like, I think that you just have to like that's true of all things in life. If you get too far ahead of yourself or too far looking in the rearview mirror, you're going to trip. So it's just like, you gotta, you just gotta soak it up. Totally enjoy the moment. Yep. I was about to say, when you have that person, like when you completely align, right?

13:44They trust you, you trust them. That when things go hard, like when you don't get the appliances, when the windows don't come, when things go wrong, which in every project, there is always something. There is always, you know, salt thrown in the game. It's so much easier when you like the person you're designing with. You also touch on something I think is so vital to our work as designers. also setting some expectations and some ground rules from the very beginning about there are going to be those mistakes. There are going to be those hiccups. There are going to be those delays. You know, I try really hard early on working with clients to weave a bit of romance around that and say, you know, it may be painful at the time when these things happen, but it's going to make for a really great story afterwards.

14:24And just like try to like give them some of that million mile view where they're just really seeing the forest through the trees and kind of saying, okay, well, this is part of our journey with this particular project. And that seems sometimes that sinks through to the clients. And sometimes there's nothing I can do. It upsets and upset, but you know, we try. Yeah. Jess always says, if it's not a good time, it's a good story. Yep. So, you know, I mean, think of this as that, is that, is that first date that went really wrong. It's just, it's always a good story. You know, it usually might take a few weeks or a few months down the road.

15:00But if something, if we're going through something really hard, we'll be like, this will, this will be funny later on. Membership means more with American Express Business Gold. Earn four times membership rewards points in your top two eligible spending categories every month, including eligible U.S. advertising purchases and select media and U.S. purchases at restaurants, including takeout and delivery. What are you waiting for? Get the card that flexes with your spending every month. Terms and points cap apply. Learn more at AmericanExpress.com slash business dash gold. MX Business Gold Card, built for business by American Express.

15:36But don't you all love it, but in our industry and the work that we do, I mean, like I have a lot of friends that do not do design work and their lives don't look like ours and their lives, you know, are sometimes I, they're always like, you don't, you do the most interesting things. And like, I get to work with some of the most interesting people and deal with some of the most interesting challenges. Like our life is so much more colorful because of that experience. And I feel very blessed to do the work that we're doing. I feel like it's an absolute privilege. I think so too. And I feel like the challenges too, obviously they're the greatest teachers early on, you know, in our careers, we get the most challenges and we're being taught so much.

16:15But then I think that's what makes us really great is our ability to solve problems on the spot because we've encountered these other problems before. So I think one of the biggest portions of our audience is interior designers that listen to Dear Alice. I don't know if there's anything that you'd pay forward to them that are starting in their career as they're experiencing these challenges, you know, besides the fact that it might make a good story later on, how do they get through it? I love that question because I will also say, and I'll probably have two things to share, but the first thing is that those challenges are growing pains.

16:50I remember when I was, you know, probably in graduate school and I would call my mom and be like, oh my God, it's so hard. It's so hard. And it's just like, I don't know if I can do it. And she would say, well, you're obviously being asked to grow in a way that feels uncomfortable. And so she would say, you know, that's a sign of growing pains. And the truth is, is like, you kind of have to just like enjoy it. Even if it's uncomfortable, even if it's painful, you're, you're being asked to grow. And so I try to like, in my head, I flip this, I try to flip the script and say, okay, if this is not something that's super enjoyable, then there's maybe a reason why, and I need to appreciate the why, you know, like I got to appreciate that aspect and that helps me deal with it.

17:35And I would say, I would hope that other designers would also just learn to like, love the discomfort and love the growing moments, because I will say after 22 years of doing this, I still learn something new every single day. And that thrills me. That absolutely thrills me. Yeah. I heard somebody recently say pressure is privilege. It's kind of that same thing. Like we're so fortunate to be stuck with a problem this hard to solve that people think I'm capable of it. And, you know, we have a team to rely on and we'll figure out amongst our minds how to get through it. And then we'll have that skill.

18:08We'll know how to get through this rabbit hole, you know, because we had to figure it out. If you also just touched on something I think is so valuable in this, none of us that you just said, which is none of us do this alone. Like not one of us. Every one of us is relying on somebody else in some form or fashion. It doesn't matter if you're a team of one person collaborating with a contractor or tradesman or craftsman or anything and you're a client or you're a big team. you're still working with other people and you can rely on other people. I think that's the beauty of it. Yeah. How big is your team, Ben?

18:43We are 24 and where four of us, four of our team members are accounting and back office. And then the rest of them are split right down the middle, architecture and interiors. Oh, that's great.

18:54Benjamin Johnston:What's your superpower and like within design? I would say superpower is empathy, number one. That's great. What a great answer. Two is communication. I think that I have something that's just been part of my nature always is to communicate, whether it be verbally written through drawings. I just that's a skill that I've always been able to have and has served me my entire career. That's awesome. I love that answer. What about I mean, come on, y 'all have to. What's your superpower? Come on. Who creates the comfort that makes a house feel like a home? Moms do. So this year, let's make mom feel comfortable right back.

19:34The robes and slippers at Cozy Earth bring intentional softness to everyday spaces that moms live in most. I love the robe. I'm currently living in it. One of my favorite rituals is coming home after a long day, taking off my work clothes and immediately slipping into my robe. Their robe has this ultra soft feel that wraps your body in warmth and relaxation. it has these huge spacious pockets which I totally love and have to put things in as I'm bringing things up and down the hallway I love having extra pockets it has an adjustable tie around the waist and the robes are available in plush quilted waffle and this great stretch knit style I'm currently using the plush and I love it it's a spa-like feeling in my own home and the slippers have this great comfort that instantly makes me go into relax mode.

20:25There's a plush shearling footbed that is so warm and soft. You just instantly feel like you're home. It's a ritual for me to take off my shoes and slip on my slippers right at the back door. They're cozy, breathable, and they feel great on bare feet. And they're designed to turn everyday moments into small acts of self-care.

20:44Benjamin Johnston:Every purchase at Cozy Earth is risk-free because all of their products come with a hundred night sleep trial and a 10 year warranty. So let this mother's day be a reminder that she deserves care to discover how cozy earth turns everyday routines into moments of softness and ease head to cozy earth.com and use our code dear Alice for an exclusive 20 % off. And if you see a post-purchase survey, be sure to mention you heard about cozy earth right here. That's code dear Alice for an extra 20 % off because home starts with mom. Well, I'd say, I'd say Suze definitely has the ability to, she'll always say she can draw better than she speaks.

21:19And so Suze always has a huge sketch pad, 11 by 17. Yeah. A huge sketch pad. And she's always doodling in every presentation and it will be going along and then she'll just shyly hold it up and she'll be like, kind of like, kind of like this. And then everybody's just like, what in a world of AI where you can render anything, this magic sitting over here, people love a hand doodled drawing and not just doodled, but it really truly is just, it's, what's nice about it is it's loose enough. Suze will always say this, that it's not so exacting as a rendering. So there's still room for the unimaginable and there's still, there's still room for, for things to, to be tweaked and edited but at the end of the day we frame this sketch and give it to them and there's still so much that is the same about it this is just in looser conceptual form and I just think that's such a superpower of Suze's it's pretty magical yeah since you didn't answer for me I'll answer for Jess shoot this is fun this is a pun game we just made hers is her vernacular because sometimes when you think you have a podcast about such a visual medium how does that work and it's because I think Jess has led the charge with being able to describe spaces with her words.

22:36And that's such a beautiful thing when you are working with clients, because it's hard because this isn't their vocabulary. That's why they come to us is to be able to create something. And so to be able to communicate that both visually sketches, all the things, but also just like, I think there's a real comfort when you have someone that can communicate things so beautifully and so relatively, you know, that doesn't, it can be a daunting. It kind of what we do, I think is feels unapproachable to most people. Interior design is something that only the wealthy can afford. But yet, if you can like say it out loud, it's something that we all experience.

23:07It's something that we all have space, right? And so if we can say it in an approachable way, you know, where you can make your space beautiful, I think that that's our job. And I think Jess does it the very best.