Interior Design Q&A: Fireplaces, Contractors & Red Flags

0:00First tip, let's talk timing and who do you call first? I would always start with the designer. Any tips or warnings to keep aware of when you are looking for designers or contractors on your home? Darn corner fireplaces. How many questions? We get this question a lot. And I'm going to tell you how I did it with my sister's house. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Dear Alice. We are going to be doing a listener Q &A today. So thank you for your questions. And we are going to be answering six of them on this podcast. And happy Halloween. Yeah. Guys. Second favorite holiday. It's All Hallows Eve. Right?

0:37All Hallows Eve. I love that. I never say that. That's amazing. What's that on Hocus Pocus? All Hallows Eve. I think. The moon is around. Yeah. You know the one. Yeah. That's one of my favorite. I know. Guys, are you watching any fun movies or anything? Like, I do love a Hocus Pocus situation. Yes. Practical Magic. Practical Magic. Go watch that. That's so cute. Okay. Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman. Yep. Get all witchy and Wiccan. What else? What are some other like spooky? The Lost Boys is what I love. I was obsessed with vampires as a kid. That's so cute. The Lost Boys is my movie. He was spooky.

1:17Kiefer? Yeah. Yeah. I had nightmares about that movie. Yeah, it's a scary movie. I was like, my aunts showed it to me. They're like four or five years older than me when I was a kid. And I've loved it ever since. And the soundtrack is great. It's like 80s. And yeah, dangly like earrings and stuff like that. Yeah. I don't know if I've even ever seen it. Really? I'm going to go check it out. Oh, it's so good. He played a villain for the majority of his career until 24. Oh, really? I didn't know that. I love it. Kiefer's awesome. So great. Well, speaking of holidays, you guys, the holiday collection is available right now at alicelanehome.com.

1:53Not Halloween decor, if that's what you're thinking. We're talking actual Christmas decor. So that just went live. It's been so fun having it up in store. So cool. And then I also wanted to say that today's questions are going to involve log cabins, corner fireplaces. If you have one of those, we finally have an answer for you on how to space plan that room. Because I know the corner fireplace is the bane of your existence, probably if you're trying to figure out just where to put that sofa or sectional. So Suze has some really good practical advice for you. And then also how to deal with designers and contractors.

2:27If you're taking on a little remodeling project, we have a question where we answer that. So we're going to get into it. Okay. Before we do that, do you guys have any like favorite Halloween traditions that you guys do with your families or anything? My boys are of the age where like you have to carve pumpkins. Like there's a place called Corn Bellies here in Utah. And it's a big like this Halloween festivus. And they have like rides and caramel apples and warm chocolate chip cookies that come in the bucket. Anyway, Corn Bellies is really, really fun. and so like you can get season passes but my boys are always like they're getting at the age where they're just like let's get a season pass to corn bellies it's crazy cute so corn bellies is really fun um and then yeah dress up you guys dress up i don't dress up but we don't have kids at home anymore so it i mean i guess i could just dress up for the trick-or-treaters not this year it's too late but yeah next year you and adam have to um you know i just barely said i love vampires every year when I was a kid I wanted to be a vampire so my like go-to costume is I like 10 years ago I bought like the ones that like mold to your teeth the vampire teeth so yeah I use those and just I'm a vampire every year and what do you wear um it's like all black and yeah you have like a high collar yeah I'll like pop a pop a collar yeah yeah exactly yeah I should exactly I need to get some yeah I like paint my fingernails and yeah I don't know oh cute yeah I freaked That was awesome.

3:56Oh, I love it. That's very cool. That's my tradition. Cool, cool, cool. I love this time of year. I do too. So the first question is from Gina Collar. She wrote in and asked, what is your experience working with log cabin-esque homes? My family is considering purchasing one up in the mountains for family retreats, but are weighing the pros and cons from a design and practical viewpoint. Unique question. That is a unique question. I'm excited for her though. Yeah. That is exciting. We, uh, uh, Corey and I talked to Drew yesterday, who's the president at Alice Lane, and he actually lives in a log cabin, um, up a really beautiful Canyon.

4:33And I asked him yesterday, Hey, what are the pros and cons? Cause you've lived there long enough. And he was like, yeah, okay. Let me tell you the pros first. So the pros are it's, um, it's really, really dense all of it. And so it absorbs sound really nicely. Super solid. It's aesthetically, it's really like natural and beautiful. If you like that look. Cozy. It's cozy. Everybody always says that where I think in homes that are, you know, sheetrock traditionally made like the rest of ours, noise can or sound can kind of bounce around off the walls. And depending on what your flooring is, it can be kind of loud.

5:12And this really absorbs sound and gives you. And diffuses because the walls aren't just like straight that's where most of the like reverberation like comes yes yes you got like the curved log walls each of the logs so sound bounces off in different directions it's it's just really cozy yeah yeah um some of the cons he gave us were um the upkeep because it is all natural um and then the chinking in between the logs you have to upkeep much like any natural material i I think he says probably every five to 10 years, but he did say that because it is natural that there's a lot of bugs. They like burrow in.

5:50Yeah, they burrow into the chinking and they can eat into it. And so they often get bugs. He thought it'd be fun to raise bees, a certain type of bees. I forget what kind. Yeah, I can't remember either. But they're not the ones with the stingers. They're like iridescent and pretty and they're good for the environment. And what he noticed was that the bees were everywhere in the home. They had burrowed into the chinking and they get spiders just because they love, it's just a natural material. So he didn't know that he would get the bugs that they got, which was really interesting. I asked him about mice and he said, that's just kind of, that would be like, it depends on where you live.

6:29And it's like a normal amount of, if you get mice in a normal home. He actually said a normal constructed home is easier for mice to burrow into. Because the walls just become their, you know, their wraps. And they play around between the walls where with this, you don't have that. So that wasn't a thing so much as bugs was. And then he did say it's very busy visually. He's like, sometimes if I'm on a Zoom call, I'm like, whoa, what is all that behind me? It's just tons of orange. Everything's orange. All the logs are orange. And so sometimes he's trying to figure out what to order and like what's going to look good with all these orange logs.

7:03He also said nothing is plum level or square. So he was putting up a baby gate to keep his little one from going down the stairs or whatnot. But because one log protrudes out further than the works down here, you really need to be able to have lots of adjusting points because he's like, you just can't get a square edge on anything. Moving a dresser in, like some logs protrude out further than others, so you can't push something all the way up against a wall. He said there's probably more cons than pros. He loves it. He loves the lifestyle of it. Oh, he did say the bugs come more in the summer because heat rises and then bugs are swarming around sort of up at the top.

7:42So I don't know. What else did he say? I mean, as far as like structurally, like everything is a beam in the walls, you know. So if you're like, if you're going to like, oh, I'm going to add a window here and cut that out way easier because you don't have to cut it out and then reinforce it with the beam because it already is one, you know. So structurally it's great. Insulated very well, better than, better than normal. Um, which I think makes a lot of sense if it's going to be up in the mountains. Cause you're going to, you know, experience like, yeah, freezing temperatures. Uh, but yeah, I think, I think you have to be the person for it.

8:14I think so too. You know, if you are. Yeah. Um, but I think aesthetically we wanted to lean in and show you some photos, Gina, of, you know, just to get your, just to get your senses going. like if you lean all the way in and do this really sort of Sundance or Ralph Lauren look, you have to lean way into the log cabin. You're not just bringing up your old gray sectional and putting it in the log cabin because then you're just going to be mad that the walls are so orange. And you've got to lean in. You've got to use those warm tones. Using all of the pattern helps fight, I think, the other pattern, or I guess get along with it more because you are just leaning into that full Ralph Lauren aesthetic.

8:52So we have a couple of, if you're tuning in on YouTube or Spotify, you're going to see some images on screen um suz you pulled these do you want to tell them kind of what they're looking at yeah and when when you do lean in with the log cabin um we've done homes up in sundance and you really do you're just like you're it's the it's robert redford it's sundance it's ralph lauren um it's like the movie like dan in real life and so when she said family retreat i was just like money i'm like that's so dreamy if you can like figure out the maintenance of like those things that you guys mentioned like i think this is so dreamy especially for like a second home if you love the location so what you're looking at now are just some images I grabbed when I was like looking into Ralph Lauren and again Sundance and some of these movie sets and like you're seeing wool pendletons and a lot of natural materials to kind of accompany have some trophies on the wall you know like animals and and obviously wildlife that's happening great paintings of wildlife and anyway it's just a really layered cozy like filled in look handsome it's very very handsome and I'm like I'm into it it's like it's the magic when you go up to Sundance if you haven't been there like come and it's just like you walk in and you can feel it like in your bones and I'm just like I need I need a hot drink and a blanket stat so do you think it feels like you're gonna make a memory there like you're gonna sit and play a game or do a puzzle I'm not gonna be on my phone it doesn't it also doesn't feel like you're at home it feels like you're somewhere special.

10:19I mean, it feels homey, but, but you really are going to just leave your phone behind and just sit in there and life's going to slow down and it's going to be a time capsule moment. Yeah. So I like this better than just going to another home. That's, you know, a similar decor. Yeah. Decor. I just, I really love it. And I think Gina, what a cool opportunity for you that you do have the mountains nearby and that you, that there is something like this for sale and as you put it together I think more is more and the coziness will come. And I think to the fact if you do have a log cabin and you're dealing with a lot of the orange the image on the left is like a quite a two-story with like a loft up above and they just have art and this one has like more of like a pickled wood they have beams and it's just more wood clad versus log but with a log cabin too if you can cloud those walls with like a lot of art and build that up you start to diffuse some of that color just be or hang rugs on the wall or things like that if it becomes too much um i think that would be a really good way to help pull down the orange if it becomes an issue that's the other thing with like a log cabin like you don't have to find a stud oh my god you just you're hanging it you know you just said he could just hang anything anywhere and he has been doing the thing where you hang a rug and it kind of drapes pretty over like the first log and then drapes and that's been really lovely and he's not too precious about hanging anything anywhere But more is more in this circumstance.

11:40Yep. I love it. It's such a mood. You might have an antler chandelier. Most three of the five have it. So they'll probably have an American flag or wherever you're living, hanging up on the wall. But here's one that has more of like the chinking, not as yellow or orangey of a log, but you do see the chinking in the wood when you do it go up to some ants. You can restain them too. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, if you do, if the one that you're looking at is orange, you definitely take that. You can take that off and restain it and refinish it and stuff like that. I think Drew mentioned like resealing his cabin is like an every five to ten year thing.

12:15Yeah. So. Yeah, kind of, I mean, marble countertops, I guess we're supposed to reseal every six months. Yeah, that's what they say. Yeah. So this, you only have to reseal every five years. So that's good news, Gina. Yeah. So Suzanne would say do it. I would 100 % do it. If you live on the East Coast, I would worry. When you said bugs, I was like, oh, termites. You don't see them as much over here, but you do have that a little bit more over there. So there's pest control for that. Yeah, you can solve anything these days. It's true. But I think the look and the memories are absolutely worth it.

12:47That would do it. Yeah. The next question is from Michelle or Michael from England. And they wrote in and said, first time listener from England. Love the podcast and very exciting for future episodes. We are considering hiring a design firm here that a friend runs, but our worry is that her preferences are much different from ours. Is that normal? And how would you handle a situation like that? Yeah, you know, this is a really tricky one. Here's what's tricky to me. It's the friend piece, not the style. The style piece is also tricky and I think will be a really good excuse as to why you maybe don't work together.

13:23The friend piece can be tricky on this. I think working with friends and family can be something that it depends on them. And you'll know if they're, I don't know, if you've had some upfront talks about it. I have like probably one of my dearest, closest friends, Susan, probably Susan, one of our dearest, closest friends who years ago was beginning a new build that lasted probably like three or four years. And it's just a dream project. And she came to us and said, I think I want you to design. She's like, I don't want you to design the whole home. I have a designer that we've always used. I'm going to have her do it.

13:58But I just wondered if you guys would just touch like a few spaces for me that are personal for her, like her dream closet. And we were going to even take in and do the bathroom because they all bled together. And we drew up a scope for her. And then in the end, she's like, you know what? I'm not going to sign this. I've had too many things go wrong when there's friendships cross over into business. And I love you guys so much. I never want there to be any weird anything between us. And we were like, totally get it. We respect that. And we were bummed because we really do love her. And we know we would have just knocked it out of the park for her.

14:33And we were so excited about it. But in the end, I respected that decision. And I've even taken that into my own life and other arenas. Because, I don't know, there is just something really sacred about friendship. so it's it can be tricky with friends and family we've I've worked for a family member before and you know tensions will run hot because you know there's so many things in a project right like maybe their patience runs like maybe something's been installed wrong and they want you to handle it even though you're not their builder or maybe cost came in different than they had hoped for and that could be because they wanted to do more or whatnot but there's so many tension points and triggers and stressors in a remodel, that something's going to come up.

15:21And so just know that depending on how close this friendship is, that you guys have a safe word or that you guys talk about it in advance and you say, hey, I don't ever want anything to come between this and we're going to make a million decisions together. A lot of these are going to be financial and I just want us to always be in a safe zone where we can talk about it. If you're both great communicators, it's going to be fine. if one of you is non-confrontational and gets really quiet then it's hard to communicate with somebody like that so I don't know the one reason why how you could get out of this is because their style is so different and we've been hired before um from a gal that was really good friends with her past designer in real life and then she didn't use her for the next project she used us because our style is different and she had done a traditional home with her last friend and then we did a really contemporary home for her and she just blamed it on style and so anyway I think this is a really hard line to walk but I do think friendships are really precious and you just don't want things to come between it I don't know Sue what would you add to that you're here I was gonna say I'm like I would lean on that style thing if you don't align in like it's such a long process an expensive process I'm like you said like emotions are high that if you if you don't align like you you obviously love this person because it's a friend so you got that but if like the style doesn't align and you're nervous at all I think that that's your out that's your out and again I think if you were to like I'll kind of write that off and say we'll go ahead and use her I think there would be some resentment along the way to not get what you ultimately want and that's not fair to her or you so I would just like call it clean go to dinner and hire someone else.

17:04Yeah. I would say if you end up doing it, do it because you think that they're the right designer for you. Don't do it because just they're, they're a friend and that's the only reason. Yeah. And you need a designer. I mean, you could even ask them like, Hey, I thought about using you, but I just don't want this to come. I don't want anything to ever come between our friendship. Who do you think would be a good fit for me? Um, my style is actually different than yours. Um, I, we're actually going to go contemporary on this one or your contemporary and we're going super traditional, who would you recommend?

17:34And she could even be a part of that problem solving with you. That's another, if you're that kind of friend and then she'll respect. Cause I respected it when my friend said, you know, our friendship's too dear to me. And I thought, gosh, yeah, friendship is the most dear thing. Yeah. It's like almost like family. So yeah, I hope that helps. Yeah. Michael, Michelle. Suze, before we started recording, you were telling me about your bubble Cuddle Blanket from Cozy Earth. Let's tell the people about it. Okay, I want to shout it from the rooftops. I love this thing so much. The Bubble Cuddle Blanket is the best faux fur blanket out there.

18:07I know because my family all has versions of all the other ones and they look like flat tires, but the Bubble Cuddle has a structured grid that's quilted on the front and the back and it is so soft and it like I don't mind having it out on my sofa with all my other beautiful curated things because it's that lovely. And I say it is cozier than all the others. So I love, I love, love, love my bubble cuddle. So if you want to get a bubble cuddle blanket or any of the amazing products that Cozy Earth offers, head to CozyEarth.com and use our code DEARALICE for up to 20 % off. That's CozyEarth.com, code DEARALICE.

18:43And if you get a post-purchase survey, make sure to let them know what you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Because home isn't just where you live, It's how you feel. Let's go home with Cozy Earth. The next one is from Lauren Davis. She asked, I've always been an admirer of your interior design and have become a huge fan of your podcast. I feel like I'm taking a masterclass in interior design and am more confident in designing my home. My question, I have the unfortunate inheritance of a corner fireplace in our home. We've lived five years and it just never feels right in this room help how do i best space plan for this area i love the feel of a modern french design with little southern charm to bring in the comfort of home i'd love all the advice and tips best to you all super nice for okay oh darn corner fire places builders developers like you are not saving space you are making things complicated Please don't use them anymore.

19:43No one likes them. Or pantries or corner pantries. Like, how many questions? We get this question a lot. Yes. How do I address the corner fireplace? And I'm going to tell you how I did it with my sister's house. She also inherited, when she was like first time home buyer, her and her husband bought this little starter home and it had a corner fireplaces, which to me that says that not only her house had that, but hundreds of them in this development have that same issue. they're like again edifices on the earth that like sit for you know for a very long time and nobody knows what to do with them i'd love to talk to the architect who like why did they think that was a good idea yeah yeah we'd also like to talk to the architect nobody nobody that has one knows what to do with it but yeah they all wish it was oriented on a straight wall and that they could make that the focal point because how do you space plan that room lauren has the same question Who is your master?

20:37Yes. Who is your master? Well, so Suzanne has sketched out some space plans for you. So if you guys are tuning in via YouTube or Spotify, you're going to see this. Camera one, Suzanne said, you know what? Corner fireplace, you lose. We're going to go ahead and put the sectional facing the opposite wall. And we're not going to look at you and we're not going to pay attention to you because we can't square furniture up. Look away. Look away. I hated it so much. And my sister's like, what do I do? and I'm just like and it wasn't cute it wasn't like it had beautiful finishes it was like really basic millwork with like dumb tile or something and it just was a glory for no one I couldn't put a tv over it there was a window over there I'm like I don't know what to do with you you know let's just ignore it like I'm just gonna like how many years ago was um oh gosh in one that was probably 15 years ago one like even before 20 years ago probably yeah sometime between when we 17 20 years ago and she didn't necessarily want to replace the fireplace at this point she just was like she had a lot of little kids furniture yeah she had a lot of little kids she's just like let's just like get some furniture in there and even at that point like it still wasn't just trying to space plan normal furniture from you know that she had had there was just like no right way to do this and like it lived like this for a second it was just always like such a thorn in my side every time I would go over there I'm like gosh dang it you've cornered fireplace you suck so hard so um years later they're ready to do a remodel and we're like okay what do we do with this corner fireplace and it was a remodel where again they didn't like this wasn't the home that they wanted to invest a ton of money to like re-pivot exactly where the fireplace was gonna go and so I'm like okay I'm gonna put my thinking cap on and I'm gonna fix it this time like what can I do and so ideally like we don't ignore a fireplace you know that should be a focal point and she should make it beautiful so what we did in camera two you can see this space plan is what we ended up doing um and what you'll notice the biggest difference from camera one is on camera one it just juts out at a 45 degree or 90 degree angle back to space plan two we actually took the mantle and like just completely elongated it from like corner to corner like we just expanded it completely and then i'm going to show you enlarge the footprint and large the footprint instead of it feeling like a modular fireplace that was just plopped in the corner we actually like made a proper built-in that made it look more grand and more glorious and we could actually orient the sectional before again I just had the back we ignored it completely on the space plan on this new one we're actually looking at it and then I did a console next to it floating in front of a mirror a window and we actually like floated the tv on top of that so with window treatments but then here's what we did so this shows you how we terminated that whole fireplace into the wall completely so you don't have any weird hidden corners and we space planted around it and like made it beautiful we got a new firebox still kept it in the same place but just like grew our mantle just to make a more grand moment so that was I think probably the best the most successful corner fireplace that we've ever been able to do so I'm glad I got to do that experiment You imagine the neighbors coming over and being like, how'd you get this mantle?

23:51I know. I know. So great. So much, much better. Yeah. So great. And then you just kind of in back to the space planning, Lauren, you can see here how that sectional is going to allow you to, you can have a couple of vantage points, whether it be looking at the console with the TV on it, and that's framed with drapery because there's a window up above it. Oh, sorry. There's not a TV above that. It's just like floating in front of it. Beautiful. Love that. More eye level. Yep. Yeah. So that sectional is going to allow you to either look at the TV or look at the fireplace or out the window. And this room feels so huge coming into it now.

24:27Yeah. It's really welcoming. And the fireplace is something to behold. It's actually really beautiful. Expanding the footprint of it, that totally makes sense. Yeah. Hard to ignore it because it is there. Yeah. But if that's the, that's your only option, I think that's great. And we just did a cast one and just had the filler pieces created. And anyway, it turned out really, really beautiful. It did. Anyway, so if you're embarking on a remodel, this is how I would address it. The next question is from Megan Falks. Do you have any tips or warnings to keep aware of when you are looking for designers or contractors on your home?

25:01Currently looking at some options in my home in Texas and just feel nervous since this will be my first time hiring out. Great question. We do have an episode about, off the top of my head, I can't remember when it aired, but it was working with a designer. So along with whatever answer you guys are going to give, you can go reference that too. Yeah. Okay. So first tip, let's talk timing and who do you call first? I would always start with the designer because the designer is going to have resources. She's going to have worked with the best wallpaper hanger, the best painters. She's going to have a mirror source, a slab source.

25:39They come with their own bank of resources. Possibly even a builder that, you know, they have worked with before that's, yeah. Have great rapport with. They're going to know the best cabinet shops. They're going to know good, better, best, depending on your budget. Maybe you go with the good, maybe you go with the better. Maybe you're not interested in the best bid. So they're going to really help be your tour guide on this project. They're also going to start the design. And we usually, as a best practice, we used to always say we like to get started six months before the build takes place because that gives us time to really figure out your North Star and help dial in your design, sit down in several meetings, craft it out.

26:18So then that's the design that you hand off to the builder to bid. Your cabinetry is elevated. Your tile drawings are done. Everything's specified right down to the grout. There's no questions. Or if they do have a question, then we can point out in the drawings and the finished schedules, like it's all here. You just need to go bid the actual design because otherwise they can give you ballparks, but they don't know actually what your design is. And then it's going to come in different than bid, right? So I think you always start with the designer and then you go on to the contractor. And like we said, your designer is going to come with a Rolodex of contractors.

26:52So that's your easiest, easiest route. Yeah. I would say if your designer doesn't have those things, probably not the right designer. I think that that is a red flag. Um, if they don't have like really good references and projects that they can like show you. And I honestly, I think the best way to find a designer that you like is if you've like, you talk to people, you talk to friends, you talk to family, you have used designers and hear what their like process and experience was because I think a referral is like the best thing. I love it when we get a referral just because they've lived with it.

27:26They've like, they went through the process with us and they enjoy the experience. So therefore when I get a call from a friend of, you know, a client, I'm like, oh good. I'm just like, yeah, it was a good working relationship. And those are the kind of people that you want to, you know, cause it's a really long process, you know, like, yeah, you're designing for, you know, six, six, 10, sometimes 12 months, depending on the house, but then the build can be anywhere from like two to five years so depending on your job depending on your job so anyway so you can whatever it is you just you're going to be making decisions that are really important that you're going to be living with so you need to like your designer you need to love their work and you need to learn that they have a good process and if they have all those things it's likely that they're going to know the best builders that will fit into your category and then you want to talk to them and I talked to several because you're going to know if you just like them, you know, if you resonate with them, if you want to sit in meetings with them and go shopping with them, liking them is really important and trusting them is important.

28:25One of the things that you ask for tips or warnings to keep aware of when you're looking for a designer or contractor, one of the things that Sue and I have experienced quite a bit is if we get hired after somebody else has been hired, probably the number one complaint people say to me is, or they say to us is, yeah, I hired somebody, but they just never finished. You're hiring a creative person that probably loves a part of the process and maybe not the other part of the process. And especially if they work alone or they work from home, and this is kind of a part-time job for them, their process might be a little bit more loose and they might have a lot of energy and getting started, but then peter off in the end and not really finish.

29:05So we get often called in to finish people's work because their designer just didn't have the energy for it. Or maybe they're good at the build portion and they don't know how to style, you know, or they don't know the decoration portion of it. Because what's funny is there is a difference between designers and decorators. Decorators are good at the finishing portion of it. They're good at the furniture. They love the drapery. They love the wallpapers. They love the styling. Designers are really good at the construction portion of it, the interior architecture of it all. It's really the math and the project management and the specifying of all the pieces and parts.

29:42And so ideally, you're going to get somebody that's really great at both. And they can not only start the job with gusto, but finish it as well with a really great touch on the end. So that's why I think the referral is great, because anybody that's worked with them, maybe you like their portfolio, maybe you've talked to them and you like them and then you could even ask for references and then you could call people that have worked with them and if it all checks out then you're in really good shape to get started with them same thing with contractors if you decide that you're going to be the designer and you just need to hire contractors you're going to again want referrals for people because again you want them to finish their work that's another thing that people say with contractors yeah he started a sister-in-law right now that's been working on a bathroom a master bathroom since February they haven't been able to shower in their own bathroom they've been showering with their kids he started laying the tile and then he went and started working on all these other jobs so he starts a lot of things and then to keep them on the hook he just he just starts a million other jobs so that he has a lot of things in the pipeline so anyway she's just like I can't get him back here to finish and nobody wants to come and do half of a job or just finish a job they want a whole job so yeah finishing I can't tell you how important it is to get a finisher when it comes to contractors.

31:00But again, if you start with a designer, they're going to know, they're going to have a book of business or a book of contractors that's their favorites. And she can pick up the phone and call them and find out whatever you need to know. And you'll be in good shape. The next question is from Mitchell. He asked, for flooring, is there a material that reigns supreme in your mind? I think hardwood floor. I think that's reigning supreme right now. It's probably going to take up the majority of a main floor. I would say I even know people that are ripping out carpet in their bedrooms and using hardwood.

31:32It's natural. It's comfortable on the joints, more comfortable than walking on tile. We'll generally do some sort of tiled entryway, do a really beautiful, some sort of marble something. And then from there, you're going to take off with hardwood through all the main living spaces, the hallways, the kitchen. That to me is a superior one. And when I say hardwood, I am not talking about LVP, not talking about vinyl that looks like hardwood. I'm also not talking about tile that looks like hardwood. I'm talking about real hardwood. So that is, and sand and finish floor. I love a sand and finish. And then there's also your engineered hardwoods, which are great and easy install.