Listener Q&A: All Things Lighting

0:00Hello everyone, welcome to Dear Alice. Today we are doing a lighting episode. You guys had so many questions. we compiled them all into one and we're making it all about lighting we've got great visuals so if you want to tune in and see those on spotify or youtube i would recommend it if not if we're like going on a walk or a drive with you we'll try to do our best to describe what we're talking about but lots of really intelligent questions out there and it's nice to be able to focus on just this one topic and share what we know because there's a lot to uncover yep yeah and they're expensive decisions anytime you start to get into like lighting and good lighting like how big should the chandelier be how you know so smart smart questions yep we're going to give you some equations that will help you determine the right size of lighting there's a lot of smarts and a lot of technical things in here as well as what temperature should your light bulbs be we'll be giving you those answers yes lots of good things to get into but first I wanted to say there's still time if you want to get a gift from Alice Lane today is Thursday when this episode releases by next Tuesday on December 16th is when the postmaster cuts us off and can't guarantee shipping for sure so you have till next Tuesday to get something great I'm so excited for you there's great gift guides live so go shopping and we had another fun idea for you.

1:24So say, say you haven't gotten a great gift for that really special someone in your life, your partner, whatever. Um, and you're just like, I really got to like, I got to do something big. What you're going to do, you're going to get them an Alistair gift card. And then we have a free design service through our home furnishings design. You're going to say, honey, we're going to do the living room just like you always wanted. January 1st, We got a consultation scheduled with da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da at Alice Lane. Oh my gosh, you win. Kisses all over the place. Merry Christmas. Yep. And that gift card gets to go toward the purchase of furniture.

2:00You don't have to pay for the design service, but they think that you bought the design service and you're going to be doing the furniture. That whole gift card is going to go toward furnishings. So there's a solid idea. Everyone wins. And actually with that one, you can, you can do that till later because this doesn't have to ship anywhere. you're going to print that gift card off don't procrastinate until December 24th it would be ideal if you did schedule the consultation so then they think you really thought about it but anyway love that idea yes so good to book that consultation you go to our website aliceanehome.com go to the design services tab go down to home furnishing design and then that will take you to a form you fill out someone will go back to you subject Christmas SOS yes there we go flag this three exclamation points we'll get back to you uh let's just jump into the questions those listener questions all on lighting today so the fan asked have you ever done lighting over an island eight foot ceilings 10 foot island help sconces by stove question mark okay yes we have done lighting over an island with eight foot ceilings and i think we always would we would always find a way regardless of how tall your ceilings are to get that look because i think that lighting like crowning this island and this kitchen framing your range all the things um that's everything like the light and again if you know the tricks to do the right kind of lighting it's kind of like this jedi mind trick you're just like gosh this space grew it's a very grand gracious space um when you do do this lighting trick so yeah agreed um we are if you're tuning in and you can see the visuals we're showing you house of kennedy we just recently celebrated this project um last month with you guys um and took you through this whole remodel but we actually did four pendants two um two pendants over the island and then two matching pendants over the dining table here um these are kelly worstler i also feel like this is a very worstler trick we pulled um and yeah we are coming down probably at least 24 inches on each of these giving you plenty of space on the work island and then obviously plenty of space to get in and out of that banquette the eye loves repetition and this feels really good in the space also felt really designer and like nothing was forgotten another cool trick that people are loving right now with the low ceilings is using a monopoint and you could use a monopoint a collection of two or three over an island if you want that very minimal kind of contemporary look there's something about it still feels old school but modern I think especially if you did like a bronze finish or a brass but my eyeball is always going to want a soft shape.

4:33I love a globe. I love this one that we used in House of Kennedy with that, that bottom that's just like really beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. So pretty. And I just love that it's getting the light pushed out at that lower surface. We did also use cans in this space. So it's pretty typical to have a layer of can lights as well as pendant lighting. You're going to mostly use those pendant lights other than when you're maybe cooking up a storm, like for the holidays or Thanksgiving or cleaning at night, then you're going to put on that extra layer of lighting to really illuminate the space. But I like her second question here, which is sconces by stove question mark.

5:12I love this. I do too. I'm like, I think too, like pulling, cause that's just like on your vertical wall, like your ceilings, like that's doing its own dance, but like having that there to just kind of like glow around your stone by your range, by your hood and highlighting all those things. I think it's such a beautiful trick we try and employ this whenever we can in clients homes I love the look and especially as if we don't have like uppers like if you kind of omit those or push those to different walls perpendicular walls and you have your range with your slab two sconces and you just have had that glowing at night so dreamy yeah so so so dreamy so yeah definitely do that whenever you can get sconces I think this is a real key takeaway in lighting in general it's just like I feel like it's I don't know the it's a little like party trick it's like the treat at the end you know that you don't always expect but it always gives back I agree so yeah yeah I I also want to say this this is very specific but I feel like this isn't true for everybody but I feel like these sconces don't necessarily need to be the sconces with shades when you're thinking of them I almost think of them like our ace and alice sconce like the whole thing is like a bull nose of brass with the alabaster half dome i think it should feel like if spaghetti sauce splattered on it you could wipe it off yeah it would feel more culinary if you will it shouldn't feel like an entry or even like a dining room or stairwell sconce i there's a lot to be said about the right use of a sconce in the right place and i see the wrong ones used all the time in the wrong applications And so I just wanted to say here, these kitchen sconces, I'm picturing them living underneath the range hood, right?

6:54And so I think that they should be almost like wet rated. You know what I mean? Glass or stone. Alabaster. Exactly. I think those kind of applications just look so chic. They're unexpected. You're going to get a billion points of credit for it. And it's just going to look very restaurant and moody. And even if all the lights are turned off and just those are aglow and you put the kitchen to bed at night. That's the vibe. That's the vibe. Exactly. It's ambient. So you don't even need to see the light source. It doesn't even be shiny. Anybody could make out with you. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Smoke and mirrors.

7:27Yes. Exactly. Yes. That's what we want. That's what we want for the, yes, chef. Yes to the scones. Yes, chef. Cheers. Chin chin. Okay. Okay. Question number two, how do you combine lighting within one room and how to mix different styles and materials? Okay. This question came in more than once. Yeah. We had one listener write in and she said, I just was able to score this great Ralph Lauren chandelier for my dining table. Like could not believe the difference it made in her house because everything else was builder grade. And she's like, I can't believe the difference one chandelier can make.

8:01So now I want to replace everything. And you're like, yes, yep, you've caught the vision. This can make a difference. And because she got this one Ralph Lauren chandelier, she's like, do I just go and buy everything Ralph Lauren for the whole house? You're like, oh, I can see where this is going. how do you create the outfit of the lighting for the whole home and this is something that we take a lot of time on alid creating these lighting schedules and unfortunately the answer is no we do not go to one brand and buy the whole suite much like we don't go and buy the nights the matching bed with the matching remember when you could get the whole wood set you know you'd get the matching bed with the night sense with the dresser with the the trunk at the foot of the bed Like everything had the same profiles.

8:44It's really about creating fashion and creating a vibrant look. And this is why people hire interior designers so that they have not just one resource with one line called Ralph Lauren. They have multiple lines, multiple designers, multiple brands where they can go in and they can curate for the home what this looks like. So up on your screen right now, this is one example for a home that we're doing in the Pacific Northwest for a couple that loves fashion. and this is the lighting that we are doing throughout the home that's sort of the lighting story and Sue do you want to take them through how we choose lights especially not just for the room you're in but the adjacent lights because there's a relationship happening there too.

9:27Yeah so a lot of this this is a again lighting for a whole home and when you can see when you're doing like one room say we're doing your kitchen slash like your family room great room that kind of shares that space we're looking at the island like you'll usually find one that you fall in love with, be it, you know, like say I find my island, you know, pendants, we'll have those. And then you're like, okay, I have a neighboring dining nook that I have to also find a light for. We're going to look at all those together individually in each room to make sure that they're complementing each other and not competing with each other.

9:57And so if one, if you're one over your dining room table has a lot of arms and it has a big broad diameter over your island, I'm going to always I go to something that feels more solid and it doesn't have a bunch of arms and doesn't feel like a globe or a bowl or something. So it doesn't compete with that. So like, I know that when I go through this room and I can see both of these lights in the same, you know, eye vantage point that they're just going to compliment each other, not compete with each other now. So we get that, that all looks good. A client approves it. We get sconces by the, by the range.

10:30We get an art light over here on this wall. All those things are working with each other and complimenting and finished now you get to the next room and as we design room by room we add all these lights to this schedule to be like okay that's a lovely transition from this room to the next room and there's so many ways we do it you know this is just like an in design or there's so many cool tools now where you can do this i use like that one little diptych you know collage thing that i'm always when i'm working on a project for myself i'm like okay i have this i have this i I have this. Okay. Okay.

11:01Stamp of approval. It all looks good together. Okay. And then I have my blessing. I can purchase. Same thing goes with your overall house. Like as you're working on room. So you work on this one room. Now you're ready to work on the second room. Don't negate what's happening in the other room. You know, finish wise, shape wise. You want to note all those characters in the same story because they are. You're going to fill them all in the same space. I also want to say this. Yeah. We're choosing the lighting once the room has been designed. this is kind of with the furniture and this is the jewelry you're not just going to put on your earrings and then walk into your closet and figure out what to wear these are the earrings of the of the outfit if you will so fashionably we're getting all of those ground layers and all the furnishings dialed in and then we're choosing the lighting to go with it same thing with your primary suite right the bathroom is completely designed and then we choose sort of the crown jewels that will go in the bathroom.

11:55Even though there's not a ton of furnishings in there, you have to know what the vibe is in order to choose your lighting. So this can be particularly hard for folks that are building a brand new house, which has never existed, and they don't know what the furnishings are. We don't touch the lighting until we get into the whole furnishings part of the package. And then we start to really understand the vibe of the house. And then we can start to choose its jewels for the room. Question number three is, can a chandelier be too big for a room? You're talking to designers. I'm going to say the biggest offender for me is that lighting is never big enough.

12:30Yeah. And so I don't believe a chandelier can be too big. One instance might be if you have an eight foot ceiling, you inherited some great chandelier from grandma's French estate. And it's going to be so big, it will be four feet off the ground and you can't walk under it. But even then you're like, well, put a cocktail table under it and let's make this a vibe. Let's choke that thing right up against the ceiling. For the most part, we just, 99 % of the time, we've never seen that a chandelier is too big for a room. Also note, chandeliers are usually over a table, usually over a cocktail table, dining table, a center hall table in an entry.

13:10I don't know. They're usually, there's something there in an entry or it could be console next to the wall and you're walking under it. So I think as long as the chandelier is at least seven feet off the ground and anybody can clear that, you're pretty fair game. Yeah, I agree. Do you want to give them the equation, Suze, to figure out how big the room? Oftentimes, as designers, we look at it and we're like, okay, we visualize a lot and we're like, okay, that'll actually feel good. Oh, it's going to be even a little bit bigger. Fantastic. There are rules, though, that we can give you right now, which I think is really helpful.

13:42So, rules that we found consistently on the internet. So, you're going to take your room width and feet by your room depth. You're going to add those and that's going to equal your chandelier diameter in inches. So a 10 by 10 room, 10 plus 10 is 20. You're going to do a 20 inch chandelier in that space. So that's an easy rule for you. That's your diameter. Kind of go off of. Yeah, your diameter of the light. And then as far as how far it's going to hang down to the height of the chandelier. I also wanted to say these are your averages. We would say we would challenge these as designers and say, if you can go a little bigger, the more generous, the more designer it will feel.

14:20this is like a real statement in the room it's a vibe setter it's gonna make you look super designer so um these are just like again averages so do this and then add a little extra to it always go a little bit bigger for sure um so for the ceiling or for the chandelier height you're going to do the room height and feet times 2.5 and then so if it's eight that's going to be if it's eight foot ceiling that's 20 yeah 2.5 times 2.5 is 20 and so that it's going to be your minimum in inches 20 inches minimum hang height yes yeah for your chandelier height the last one we gave you is for the diameter so this is how tall should your chandelier be so that's your minimum your maximum is your room height times three right and then that's going to be give you like a 24 inch a chandelier.

15:12So if you have an eight, this is again on an eight foot ceiling, 24 inches. So that's coming down to about six feet. Again, though, you're probably putting the chandelier above a table or above a cocktail, centered on a cocktail table in the middle of the room. And so we're not worried about your six foot two nephew walking underneath this because everybody's kind of gathering around this table and, and it just, it really fills up the room and makes it look super intentional. Question number four, what's an appropriate scale and height of island pendant lighting. Okay. So for the height of your island pendants, we always go about anywhere from like 34 to 42 to the bottom of your pendant.

15:52So that's from the top of your countertop to the bottom of your, of your pendants. Right. And so again, like if you're eight feet, you know, and you have a 36 inch countertop that gives you five feet. So if I'm going up another, like say another three feet, then you, you know, three feet, three feet, you have two feet of hanging distance. So that's your height okay for diameter that's just going to depend on how long your island is so um we don't usually go i i think we'll always go and prefer two but even on a small island we prefer the quantity of two pendants thank you over an island yes and so i would always i don't think i would go any smaller than like 16 inches in majority of pendants that we're choosing for our clients and for the islands.

16:35I mean, even in my home, my kitchen island, I think, is like 5 by 7, I want to say. If I'm doing anything smaller than 18, it's going to be too small for that size. And mine's a pretty average island. Yeah, the rule is 14 to 20 inches, but we would break that rule and say 24 would feel really great, 20 on the small end. You could even do 30 if you wanted to do two 30s. um so i guess when we get into the larger yeah and then the larger islands are like eight to ten feet and then we would do two large pendants which again are that 18 to 30 inch diameter um it just feels really good it's really grounding to a space to be able to have these large pendants um and it's the thing that's at eye level and it frames that range hood yeah you know and so if you don't go for it the space just feels like it's it's empty it does yeah you can look past if They're like little 12-inch globes over a big island.

17:34You can just look past them too much. It doesn't give you a good frame of reference what you're looking at. It's just something with generosity and scale that feels more luxurious. And so I would just say, like, yeah, you've got to go big on these. You can start looking at even things outside of the category if you need to. Do two of something larger, like pendants for, I don't know, over a dining table. Do two of those over an island, just depending on what your price point is. but this is something that you really want to get right. Your kitchen is your most expensive room in the house, most likely.

18:07And you don't want to cheap out on lighting or go too small because that is going to make everything look like it's very, very budget. We have run into this too, and we've been looking for homes that we're working on where we're looking at pendants, and all of them are coming in too small. So I like that you mentioned the category thing. We've had to hop up to the chandelier category when you are looking at these different vendors because that's when you're going to get into the 20 to 30 inches diameter. Less than that is usually in the pendant category. Can you give them an example of that? Like on a project?

18:38Yeah, currently on a project. I think we're working on one island that's like 20 feet long. How did we solve for that two chandeliers? We had to do, okay, so let's look at Manchester. Okay, that was a massive island. I want to say it was like 12 feet long. And so we had to go to something. We'd want to frame out the hood just like we were talking about. and so we were like over 30 i want to say we were like 34 to 36 in diameter for these two island chandeliers they're not pendants anymore but when you look at it it doesn't feel out of scale you're just like oh that feels like totally normal because it's to scale you know if we went any smaller than that in that large volume of a space with that big of an island you'd been like something's wrong like they did this on the cheap or you know but nobody would like go in and be like that would be a fun guessing game actually at the Thanksgiving table to be like guess the diameter of my island pendants no one would say 36 inches diameter because it just looks so right and so to scale with everything proportionately around it yeah so anyway so you're going to be looking at pendant for smaller islands and that's going to be anywhere from like in that 16 to 18 to 20 inches anything above that you're in the chandelier category also quick note um I know we kind of popped up popped off on this last time but if you have an architect that's drawing a new set of plans today and they're putting those ceilings up at 14 inches or 16 inches you're not 14 feet i'm i'm so sorry yes if you have an architect that is drawing up your home and they're doing these great ceiling heights of over 10 feet let's say you go to 12 feet or even 14 feet you're not able to use lighting fixtures in your category anymore you have to solve your problems in a whole new sphere and that sphere costs a lot of money and so all of a sudden you're working with the 12-foot kitchen island and you're working with the 12-foot ceiling 14-foot ceiling and now you're using two chandeliers to solve your pendant problems and it gets expensive pretty fast so when you get into those ceiling height games you're you're in a whole new realm and we can play that game we can play that scale game but um i don't know how your budget is going to like it after doing that for a whole home.

20:47And your builder allowance of what he's budgeted for lighting is not matching what the architect drew. Exactly. He's solving for that problem with a 10 foot or under ceiling. And you're now in a 12 foot, 14 foot ceiling category, which is a lot of cubic feet to try and solve for lighting. And now you're going to have to make sure you remember that height from the countertop. You're, you know, it's 36 to the bottom of that shoulder, because you're going to need a lot of drop. You're going to have to get custom rods for that or additional chain. So do not forget that because we've seen that mistake happen over and over again where they're just like, well, we bought them.

21:21They were on a great deal, but they're like choked up against the ceiling and it's like it's a glory for no one. They're hanging out in a different atmosphere. It's a bummer. So make sure you remember that. I think that rule of the 34 to 42 above your countertop is awesome. I think that will save you. Agreed. Suze, have you ever given a gift that felt more like an experience rather than a product? At the end of the day, all I want, if showered, the kids are in bed, I'm going to go to my sofa and I'm going to grab my bubble cuddle blanket because that's all I want at the end of a good or a bad day.

21:56You just want to wrap yourself up in a blanket and no one does it better than Cozy Earth. The bubble cuddle is my absolute favorite. You can get that bubble cuddle blanket risk-free because it comes with a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty. Give the gift of everyday luxury this holiday season. Head to CozyEarth.com and use our code DEARALICE for up to 40 % off. Just be sure to place your order by December 12th for the guaranteed Christmas delivery. Listening after the 12th? Don't worry, our code DEARALICE still works year-round for 20 % off. And if you get a post-purchase survey, be sure to mention you heard about Cozy Earth right here.

22:32Give the gift of comfort that lasts beyond the holidays and carries you into a cozy new year. Question five. They ask, how do I choose the right size and placement for vanity lighting so it feels high-end and flattering? Should they go beside the mirror, above it, or both? Yes. Snap. Yes. Yes. Good question here. Okay, we see this all the time, and I'm so glad we have a platform to say this from. You should never, ever, ever hang a light fixture above the mirror. Right here. Never do it. There's no need to do it today. yeah yeah it's not flattering what's gonna happen no I will tell you this I actually just stayed at a hotel in Boston for a client job how did you look I look terrible and I do my makeup pretty quickly I'm on a schedule y 'all but yeah because like that light is just shining down on you and so you just get all the ugliest shadows and like your your lines ladies underneath your eyes in the morning have never looked deeper I will tell you that much you want that lighting to be on either side of your face when you're doing your makeup do not want it above your head you don't you look like I felt like I was on the cast of Halloween like it was the worst I was Jason we call it Halloween face yeah your brow bones put shadows on your eyes and your eye and you just I've never looked uglier yeah like there's there's no reason and even if this is a powder bath there's there's no reason why you shouldn't be putting sconces on both sides of the mirror even if they're dimly lit it's just a more beautiful solution the day when we put a one bar of light above above it's just it's like a cost savings trip in in a starter home and I know all of you guys are working on up leveling your homes you're building homes for other people it's not an answer we're not doing it anymore this is an antiquated idea to save money on lighting do you have any fitting rooms that you're just like I'm definitely not going to that fitting room I look terrible people are going to feel like that about your house or like I'm not going to go check my teeth or go use that bathroom because I look terrible every time I go to so-and-so's house don't be that person guys flatter them make everybody look beautiful this is put them on the side of your mirrors please such a beautiful solution and I I just think it's um I don't know this is like real design yeah it looks really good it feels like if the builder is building a builder grade home you know because he's going to buy one sconce to put above each mirror instead of buying two sconces to go next to each mirror right 100 question number six does the bulb type really matter should we be choosing a specific temperature uh for certain rooms yes the bulb type really matters i dare say for all rooms yeah yes like 2700 kelvin like in general we want warm light we don't want cold light we don't want alien led lighting nothing's the worst nothing is the worst especially in the winter and when you get like if you have dual temperatures happening from like one room to the next you're like i've never felt more roofied in my whole life more folks you heard it here first.

25:29I agree. And you know what also, if you're driving by, we like to go on walks in the evening. And now that it's like pitch black at 430, it's like 37 o 'clock at 430 at night. It's so black outside. It's kind of scary, but you can see all of the lights on in people's homes. And when you're walking by and there's different color temperatures happening, let's just say that somebody left the garage lights on. What are those? Those are like fluorescent troffers in a lot of home, right? I have 3 ,000 in my garage. Well, aren't you sexy? Well, let me tell you, there's nobody else that's sexy like that out there.

26:02They are going with the brightest, brightest light possible and it hurts your eyeballs. It is, yeah, it's a real shot to the retina to see those garage lights turned on. And then you move to the front of the house and there's like a different color temperature underneath the soffits, right? And I dare say if the old husband of the house was choosing the light bulbs, he's like, well, I'm going to get the most bang for my buck. I'm going to brighten this thing up. Yeah, so what Kelvin is he buying? 4 ,000 plus. Yeah, he is. Yep, he is. Four is better than three. So now the garage lights are fluorescent.

26:34You think so? We've got the porch lights that are just like absolutely the brightest that's even available inside the house. If the husband's choosing the light bulbs, I don't know why, but it's also just too bright white and blue. Maybe there's a lamp up in the other room. That's a warm yellow cast. We love that. That feels charming and glowy. It's crazy, guys. I'm just saying I'm so glad that we get to answer this question because nobody's got it together here. So we're going to give you guys one answer. We're not even going to give you a range. We used to give people a range. We're just going to give you our favorites.

27:05So sorry, Corey, repeat again. What is the one Kelvin they're going to buy for everything? $2 ,700. That a boy. That's it. I was thinking about it. If you go watch a Nancy Meyers film right there, I guarantee you Homegirl's not using more than$2 ,700. She's not using LED. And she's dimming that down for a mood. So throw a dimmer on it. No, let's do talk about dimming it down because you can buy light bulbs with different lumens. Lumens, yes. Tell them why lumens matter. Because that's like kind of the amount of like glow it's giving off. So if you get an LED bulb that is 450 lumens, it's like for my opinion, in like a powder bath that's maybe a little bit too much, I'd go to like 400 lumens.

27:49that's going to just give like a nice like warm glow that's what you want in there you know especially if it's a a vibey room anyway 2700 Kelvin 400 lumen LED bulb it's going to be great so that would probably be on all your sconces and all your lamps yeah what would you do for um your kitchen pendants how many lumens would you do um I do 450 there probably uh yeah but still I think 2700 is the right Kelvin all on a dimmer too so that you can like pop that up pop that down so yeah I think 2700 is the ticket the only time that you would break the rule I told them we would only give them one number is in your garage lights you would go to 3000 Kelvin yeah so it's a little brighter but also you have a workshop in your garage and you'll work and build things in there oil definitely if the rest of us are just pulling our cars in at night maybe taking the garage the garbage out I mean I I just like a warm glow color matching 2700 Kelvin throughout the whole home yeah yeah I I just like I don't especially in the winter months I don't like turning the big lights on and all the cans on my kids love it Mari loves it yeah I'm just like a more chill you know relax the mind, warm glow type of person.

29:12So yeah, I have 3000 in my garage, but even then I probably could do 2700 and just be fine. So great. And then tell them the lumens again, 400, 400. Yep. If you have to go up to 450, like, you know, pendants or a chandelier in a dining room, maybe could do that as well. So maybe take a look around your house and maybe your new year's resolution can be just to standardize the Kelvin across your whole home. That will give you an instant mood upgrade, and it will look great when you're pulling into your black house at night after working a long day. And it's just a warm Nancy Meyers glow instead of that alien glow.

29:51No one wants a spaceship glow in there. Yeah, yeah. You know what? If you don't believe us, go to Amazon and buy one of each. Buy a 4 ,000, buy a 2 ,700, put them both in the same fixture and see which one you like better. Guarantee it's going to be the 2 ,700. Yeah. You're right. The other person that lives with you is wrong. Yes, exactly. You're right. Okay, next question. Are there lighting mistakes you absolutely should avoid or which mistakes do you see most often? Okay. Jess, you touched on this. Too small of a fixture. Too small of a fixture. We see it all the time. The people that wrote in every time, the biggest problem was that it was way underscaled lighting.

30:30And also I would say the builder just bought the exact same light and hung it everywhere. oh that's a great one he hung it in the stairwell he hung it in the middle of bedrooms he hung it over the dining table he put two over the island he got a deal yeah he bought these on closeout and he put them everywhere and they were usually in brushed nickel and um you know they contained two candelabra bulbs or three and it was just like they're so tiny these things and it just doesn't do any good for the house it's a not personal or interesting or fashionable but the underscaled light just makes the room feel smaller yeah it doesn't really fill up the space and it doesn't kick off a lot of light either great yeah yeah and i'm like even in even in homes where designers have been there not all designers are created equal i feel like the scale of the lighting is a big indicator of some of the good at their job yes i just went into a home that like lovely home dream home like most like 10 10 million dollar home right beautiful the lighting the lighting was off it was hung too high they didn't order enough down water or chain and it was just the wrong diameter for that space it was such a big house again to the point that the architect probably bloated it drew it up too large and they weren't on like nobody was like paying attention to the other person as far as the scale of this home because all of her lighting should be replaced and it's nice lighting it's not like she did amazon specials or anything like that's nice lighting it was just all too small hung way too high which is such a bummer that we're coming back so quickly after the house has been built to help her replace these things because like she's like it just doesn't feel right and like well your lighting's too small you know so that again like on like the lower like spec home you know that is too small but also if you're living in a gorgeous home like just take a look and make like see if it's the right scale or the room that it's in because it will make a huge difference just like your house it's everything what do you You say like cry once.

32:27What's the? Yeah. Buy once, cry once. Yeah. Yeah. So that might be a situation if you're building a home, just buy once, cry once, you know? Yeah. That's, yeah. There's a lot of sins that can be made in the name of lighting, the boob light, you know? It's like they put one in every bedroom kind of thing. It's a real way to just save costs, you know, especially if you're building or you're buying an inherited home or a builder grade home. There's not usually much of an allowance in there for decorative lighting, but it's also the one category that if you do put time and attention into instantly skyrocket the vibe the feel I guarantee the resell of the home this all of a sudden feels like a custom home because that's one of the the line items that separate the good from the great it's that they just don't get into the lighting they don't spend the time on it they don't use real finishes so if you get in there and use real brass finishes if you use beautiful polished nickels if you're using the right temperature bulb if you're getting it at the right scale boom you hired a designer yeah you have a very discerning mind and they start believing that that is true for the rest of the home so upgrading the lighting will definitely pay off in spades yeah i have another one yeah too many cans yes as far as just like things that like the mistakes that we often see there's just so many of them electricians love them electricians love them and there's just there's so many and And like I read somewhere the other day that they were suggesting every four feet.

33:54And I'm like, good gravy. That's so close together. Like when we do a RCP, a reflected ceiling plan for a client, we do them every like six to eight feet in spaces that have to have them. Kitchens, pantries, prep spaces, bathrooms, things like that where you need to get in and clean the corners. Other than that, I remember you said for your entry, you're like, I don't even know why I did cans in there. You don't need cans in a small space. You have a decorative fixture hanging and that's all you need. Exactly. Yeah, I know. I think that the electrician, they make their money on the cans, right?

34:26The designer can make the money on decorative fixtures, right? So the electrician's going to really, he's going to really go for it on the cans and he's going to make sure that there's beam spread that's overlapping and that he can illuminate it as if there were no decorative fixture. That's what he's solving for. Totally. Yeah. It's definitely looking at it from a different thing. Like I'm a bass player in the band. So whenever I like, you know, we're doing like mixes and stuff, I was like, I'm always like, I want the bass louder. It's like, of course, because that's what I'm doing. You know what I mean?

34:58It's your specialty. The same thing with the electrician. There's like, hey, I want this to be lit up for you guys, you know? Yeah. And it doesn't have to be. So if you love the look of a can light, just like just beaming down on your face, like go for it. But other than that, if you want that Nancy Meyers film, she's Photoshopping all those cans out. they're yeah they're not cute and so are we in all our projects we get rid of all the ceiling acne there's no need for it any other mistakes that we like see often okay when you have your cans when you do have your cans make sure that they're lined up in a grid that is my biggest when i'm like seeing a constellation of this acne on the ceiling like i can't guys just put it in a row even room to room or like hallway to room it needs to be for me that's just like my ocd mine i like look at it and if they're like off centered from the ones coming down the hallway it drives me nuts you're in a new build just like make sure and say you're not you're not drawing up those plans but you're working with your electrician electrician to say i just want to be in a really organized grid and i want them as far apart as like we can get them so yeah yeah agreed yeah last question do you guys have rules of thumb for layering light in an entryway like when to use sconces, lamps, or just a single overhead fixture.