Overlooked Design Details: Stairs, Runners, & Sconces

0:28So good, so good, so good. another episode of our Overlook Design Details. I love this series. I do too. Really, there's so many little things and the older we get, the more we do, the more details we cue into and they are what makes the design, the details. Definitely, it makes the home special. So if you're embarking on a new build, a remodel, even if you're just remodeling a little section of your home, you're gonna love this series because we're really breaking down each part of the home. Today we're gonna be talking about stairs, runners, and sconces. So that entire sort of stair tower moment, all the little details that are going to make your stairs really sing.

1:02That's what today's episode is about. I do think though that the stairs are such a memory point for so many of our clients. And when you do walk into a home, I'm even thinking theatrics and movies, you remember the stairs, like you remember the stairs in home alone. You remember the stairs in the holiday. That is such a memory point. And it says so much about the energy of a home, the style of it, who uses it even along with just the overall aesthetics and so i'm really excited to talk about this we're going to be going through projects we're going to be going through the anatomy of a staircase because i think that these are terms that you should know as you are building and remodeling a home so you can speak intelligently to your builder because they will assume certain things and there are things that you want to have happen and so this series is for you to educate yourself so you can speak intelligently to all the people that are going to be helping you get to you know this final memory point yeah i agree there's the prom stairs you picture oh my gosh you know the daughter coming down the stairs or the wedding stairs or also i feel like it's sort of a style moment for the home they're generally in an entryway and getting these it's this beautiful rhythmic almost in musical instrument right that's like all in the foyer yeah and it's ascending an entire story and so it it's going to go below the eye level above the eye level there's just something about getting a custom set of balustrades and newel posts and stair runner and rods that make this thing just really sing and make it feel special or the opposite where you look like you've got your balusters from Home Depot that make your home feel so ordinary.

2:38So I will say we're going to really splurge on the staircase because it's our moment to really set the tone for the entry and the rest of the home. You know what I mean? Besides the front door, let's just really spend a lot of time getting your stairs right. So much so that we're going to record an entire podcast all about just getting the stairs right. We sure are. All right, let's get into the anatomy of a staircase. Corey. Okay. Well, we're going to start with what's easiest that we all mostly know, the handrail. Yes. Obviously, it's what you put your hand on. You're walking down. The handrail is going to run to two different points.

3:10Those are going to be called null posts. They're the posts that the handrail runs into. The balustrade or the baluster runs from the bottom of the handrail to the stair itself. When you're walking up a stair, the platform that you put your foot on is called a tread. The piece that connects the two treads, so like one tread from the next, is called the riser. And then if you can imagine a staircase looking at it from a side view, the molding that kind of shapes the stairs from the sides as it ascends or descends is called the stringer. Those are kind of all the points we're going to be addressing today or the anatomy of the stairs.

3:49That's great. And we just want to make sure you guys knew what we were talking about because we're going to be talking about mounting some of the balustrades side mounted on stringers. We want you to be able to picture that if you're not watching this on YouTube or Spotify. Yeah. And if you are, this is random, but when I was in school, I just loved learning that the actual math of the tread and the riser is 7-11. Your riser is 7, your tread is 11. So if you're going up and down a staircase, you're like, these are really steep, definitely not a 7-11 because that is like to code. But I think any of these little quips, I think help you just get it right.

4:23Definitely. Remember all those things. This first one that we're going to be talking about is our Windsor Manor. This is a home for the homeowner. Actually, she reminded me of Windsor Smith. all of her Windsor Smith is a really beautiful designer she has a really edited eye but it's very curated and that's kind of why we named it Windsor Manor she wanted something that was special but not too complicated something that wouldn't be overwhelming to her eye but still looked custom and so I remember when we were drawing up this balustrade rhythm she wanted a metal she wanted to use like an iron metal for the actual like stairs she wanted her actual handrail to be metal.

4:59She wanted her balusters and that whole balustrade system to be metal. And so we went about designing this and I'm just so happy with the details that we did on this because we do have that where the balusters, we've done this on a few different projects where the baluster actually mounts to the stringer. It's called like, what is the actual term? Stringer mount or side mount. Which is really fun because you're so used to seeing the balustrade mount right onto that tread. So seeing this mount onto the side of the stringer is a really fun play because most likely you're looking at the profile of the stairs.

5:31And this, this one in particular reminds me of like a musical instrument looking at it. There's just so much more involved. It's atypical. So it's going to catch your eye contrasting black and brass on a white stringer. Really beautiful. I think this is a great example. If you are like a transitional, you're not totally traditional. And like Rachel Parcell has the same type of mounting onto the stringer and hers is quite French, quite traditional. This is a good transitional aesthetic that still does that trick it has like the actual mounting isn't like a rosette or anything it's actually a little squared up piece we incorporated gold accents in this we incorporated iron but the rhythm of it i just think is so lovely lovely lovely to look at i'm thrilled with how the balustrades worked in this home another thing that we do in most homes is the runner i think the stair runner it's like putting art on your stairs i think we start with our rug in most rooms and often we'll start throwing runners when we're creating these boards for clients so that we can understand what is the energy happening as you kind of go up and down these stairs like because you're not putting any other furniture necessarily like onto the stairs but this is like your soft goods this is what absorbs the sound this is what adds the style points in addition to the rhythm of your balustrades it can be like a real scarf moment for the home don't you think totally i love this detail and i think the way to do it right cory do you want to tell them about the right way to get a runner in there.

6:56Do we do end caps or do we run the stair all the way underneath the runner? The correct way is to have a full on tread that spans from, you know, one side of the stair to the other and then have a runner that runs up all of those treads. I remember when like when we first started, I was in the industry and I was just like the runners kind of like the red carpet. You're just spreading it down the stairs. And so therefore, why would you have weird end caps? Yeah. Is it supposed to be believed that it's going over a full tread yeah all the way down to that very bottom riser i think when it is between two end caps it just looks it's then it's mounted to like the subfloor and it just looks so the heights aren't usually right you can tell yeah and it's it's just it really is just a different experience and sometimes they use carpet as the runner instead of an actual beautiful broad loomed or needle point looking yeah people this is where you're going to splurge on your carpet allowance you're going to get yourself something really nice.

7:50What are some of our favorite carpet lines? We love Stark. We love Roger. Roger Notes is such a fun new one. If you haven't heard, go look it up. They have such darling stripes. If you love the holiday, if you love anything charming, if you love soulful, you're going to love Roger Notes. We love Stark, but we also love Prestige, which is kind of like baby sister, usually a little bit lower price point than Stark, but the same look. There's so many great ones, but those are probably like the two favorites that I use the most that you should definitely queue into. But even, I feel like even Antrim has some great ones.

8:19If you're really neutral, I think you can go to one of those. But this is your time to shine. It's the scarf. And so I think I go bold. You're going to have a neutral carpet everywhere else. But your runner, I think, is your time to like really show off. Yeah, you're going to splurge on your balustrades, your newel posts and this runner. And then let me just also say, I think you've got to always consider a pair of sconces. two if not three for that stair tower moment being able to have light mounted to the wall is so great you're generally going to have a chandelier that's mounted in the entryway probably the center of the entry maybe it's in the center of the stair tower but usually it's in the center of the entry so having sconces graduate up with that handrail just looks so considered it's a design detail that's always overlooked people don't always think to put a sconce on the wall And this is a moment where you can have a sconce that has a shade on it.

9:10I'll oftentimes see people use the wrong type of sconce for different things. They'll put a shaded sconce in a primary bath. And you're like, oh, no, no, that's where you want to use the long sconce with all the light bulbs on it because you're getting ready. The ones with the little shades on them are for hallways and for stairwells like this. So it's going to just give you a really beautiful, subtle glow. Nobody has to get ready here. It's a moment and it's a feeling. And because your stairwell is such that where you're covering a large span of width, we often will do the double. A double sconce just because it does give you a little bit more width and like presence in that whole composition versus just doing like little singles.

9:47Because it's usually a huge wall that's spanning from one floor to the next. So you're probably 20 feet at least. At least, yeah. So you do want those sconces to take up some space and scale with the entire stair tower. In this image of Windsor Manor, you're going to see all these details. I think the balustrades turned out so beautiful. The runner, the sconces. I think this is a really great example of a full iron balustrade system with the handrail. Love. One thing about the balustrades that I think is awesome, like you said, it has an integrated bracket that's attached to the bottom of the balustrade that's attaching to the stringer.

10:20Yeah. But other than that, it's a pretty straight line. But I love the fact there's probably eight inches down from the handrail. There is like another detail on it. And that adds to that rhythm of the balustrades. so much and it kind of connects to the integrated bracket at the bottom so it's not just a bunch of lines running from the handrail to the tread it's still pretty simplistic but it adds detail it's like a little knuckle yeah that's just kind of yeah a fourth of the way down it's it is so great to the overall picture of it is just absolutely stunning i'm glad that you picked up on that because i do think that ratio of where that sits is a detail yep because i think a lot of times when you're looking at stocked balustrades you're going to see them like right in the center yeah and it's going to be that same you were we all know the one in our head that we've seen that every you know spec home fine but when you can adjust if you're going to be drawing and doing a custom railing anyway adjust that and make it it's kind of that golden mean situation where you take it to the top third or the bottom third so that it feels special and i love that you said that it integrated with the stringer mount too so so good great job oh capital heights okay so if If you've heard us talk about Capitol Heights or like listen to that little mini masterclass on that home, you'll know that this is a very all custom balustrade system.

11:35This is in Washington, D.C. The staircase is a part of that entry right when you go into the home. And so he wanted something that would be impressive and really show their style, but also just some presence of the home. And that's what a staircase does. Again, it shows off a lot. It's the preview. if you do have it in that first portion of your home it's kind of a little taster of what you're about to experience everywhere and so when we did propose solid brass balustrades they were down they were custom we had seen this like detail these fluted brass we're like what's what's more you know nation's capital than fluted than fluting on the brass anyway so we came up with this beautiful design for this balustrade every time i see it i still just like get so i get like butterflies lies in my stomach.

12:21And one thing I do want to just talk about really fast is because you're going from an actual upper level to the main level down to a basement. So when you're traveling all those floors, you do have a lot of transitions. And those transitions are really, really important. Those are design details that you want to kind of clue into before you give your drawings to your builder or even start talking to him about it. I think a lot of times homeowners will just say give like an idea to a builder but they don't think about these transition points from floor to floor because you're dealing with full high elevation so you can even see in the images of Capitol Heights how that bottom base to the balustrades it's like a block of brass basically how that starts to pyramid down and get smaller to make sure that our railing can stay fluid otherwise if I kept that the same height I would have had to square it down it would have been a lot choppier.

13:18So something has to give when you're dealing with elevation change. You either have to take it off of the balustrade or you have to do some weird jiggy stuff with your railing. So really have an idea on what you want this to look like. Be strong about it when you're talking to your builder. If this is important to you, we need to figure out how to engineer this from the beginning so that I'm not surprised with the railing that I'm not stoked about at the end and have to still pay for it. Yeah. Talking about like transitions, you guys did first an amazing job on this runner. One thing that I've seen a bunch and it's like I can't figure out how to make sense of this and it kind of leans to what you were talking about transition.

13:53So I think people even ones that do think about the staircase themselves, you know, they think about that. They think about obviously the main level and then the next level up. But it's like how are those connecting to each other? So when that runner is running up the stairs and going to the level above, where are you stopping that runner at? How are we transitioning to the next level, if that makes sense? So the very top stair runner ends into the next level. You've got to make sure and start that runner on the riser. That's connecting right into the marble. Let's talk about design ics. Yeah.

14:30Real quick. I hate that. And I've gone into homes where we have specified the runner. And I presumed that the builder would know to take that runner all the way down to the full height of the bottom riser to touch the entry flooring. again it's my red carpet moment i want that thing like if i could cascade it down i would figure out how to do it but i want to at least hit that surface of the entry floor and a lot of times they'll like they'll short sheet it and they won't cover that and then they'll stop it basically just round it out on that bottom tread don't do that take it all the way down it will like pay you back in spade and it feels finished it totally feels incomplete every time you've seen it done any other way it feels like couture like it was made for you thank you otherwise if you start that runner on the tread it's like high water pants and you're like oh no the tailor got it all right yeah they didn't order enough yeah that's hilarious but i will say again if like ideally we have a full wood tread right and our runners just going up and up that whole run of stairs I like it when it just like goes up to that the basically that last riser and then hits the nose of whatever that top flooring is gonna be okay a lot of times we are doing wood you know in these estate homes where they want wood to be the main story for majority of the general flooring sometimes if you live with you know you all your kids are really young you just built this home it might be carpet I think that's okay for the carpet to like round out and have that riser just be finished off with the fancy tread if you're listening to this hopefully you're upgrading and you're like, maybe I am going to go wood on my upstairs and I'm getting my fancy runner.

16:06So hopefully you just have that wood that's going to, again, just continue on the upper floor and then meet up with that. That upper floor, if like you're doing wood, hardwood floor on the upper floor, it would kind of just act like a tread. It would just keep that same rhythm. And usually whatever's happening there is kind of either like bordered out, you know, by the tread, you know, that wood detail. And then it goes into its straight runs from whatever direction the landing's, you know, happening upstairs. One quick detail here on the Capitol Heights staircase is we are using stair rods, runner rods, if you will.

16:38These are brass. And when you're doing this, you're going to want to start this about six inches in from both sides. And then this is going to run across. It's like right at the very edge of that tread, right in between the tread and the riser. It's in the tread and riser crotch. I was about to say the crotch, if you will. As my dad R.L. would say, it's in the crotch of the stairs. Yes. We like to find a couple sources for this that we've used before are runrug.com. And then there's also one called stairrods.com. So a couple of great resources. This is the jewelry of the stairs. So if you have a home that has this sort of level of formality, I think this is a really great move, especially today since decorating is so in and lovely.

17:20It's just a really, really well-finished home. Another thing I want to talk about specifically with this home and a lot of homes, when you're dealing with that two-story height situation, when you have stairs that are ascending to a second floor, it's a tall space to just have blank walls. Yes. A lot of times what we will do, that stair hall, is paneling. We'll do paneling to just kind of break that long, tall distance up. I love this trick. I think it just adds a lot of visual texture to your walls and it's interior architecture to add those moldings and that texture. And also it becomes a really great place when you're thinking about sconce placement.

17:55There's like really nice breaks as you're ascending or if you have a landing. It kind of helps you tell that story and identify what the placement should be. Designers, this can be a real icon of your work. I just have to say stair towers in general. They're beautifully photographed. You have so much coming into play. So much rhythm. So much design is happening here from the rhythm of that hole. all that paneling and stair tower to the sconce placements to the balustrades to your stair rods and carpet and then your marble entry coming into focus this is a real moment for your work to shine and it's a place where you want to spend a lot of detail and time and we felt like it was again worth an entire episode on this podcast yeah and i will say the sconce like in the last project that we showed you the windsor one it felt you know right in line with the actual start bar style all like blended really fluidly this here in capitol heights i think that this is a real like a little bit more of a juxtaposition so you can get a lot of style points with your sconce to you know when especially when it's just like i have all this traditional molding i have these like beautiful brass fluted balustrades it was really easy when we were looking at the roundup of all the final sconce contestants fuel to be like that's the one that's the one that gave me energy if you're watching the screen you'll see that we did this like really kind of like deco almost sconce at the landings.

19:17It reminds me of almost like, remember when you were little and you would fold a paper fan and zigzag the paper back and forth. It feels like a section of that brass folds, almost like a sunray. This is so fashionable. It's also atypical of what you would think of. And this sconce absolutely makes my heart beat fast. When I see this image, I'm so glad that everybody went for it because it's not your typical choice and it makes it feel like a fashion house and it was like art yeah basically you're not you can't put art going up and down but if you don't want the busyness of doing an art gallery on your stairwell your sconce is your art yeah make sure it counts and do something really courageous can we talk about berkshire hall let's do it okay yes berkshire hall is a remodel that we've been working on for the last year and a half which is so crazy like really quick for how what a crazy glow up this house got so just wait just wait for the before and afters you're going to want to tune into berkshire hall to that series but their staircase from what it was before it was really it was fine i can't remember actually what it looked like before because it wasn't memorable yeah you know and so but that that is i guess the key of the staircase like it can be such a memory point or it can be like oh there were stairs i guess yeah there was a second level i don't even know what was happening but i am so like it employs all the tricks that we've been talking about it employs the iron railing it employs the paneling.

20:38Throw some curves in there just for funsies. And you have Berkshire Hall. I think a really beautiful thing about the stairs here is that we're dealing with a skirt wall, which is this little, almost like a curb wall on the outside set of the stairs. Generally, you'd be seeing the tread and that riser. You'd be seeing the profile of that zigzag of the stairs come down. This is actually encapsulated with this beautiful skirt wall on one side and then all the beautiful paneling on the opposite end of the stairs. And our balustrades are actually mounted into that skirt wall. So you get this beautiful long unraveling of a ribbon feel that's on the outside of the stairs.

21:15And it's very atypical. And then like you said, there's the brass, there's the iron, a brass handrail. The runner on this one is so, so special. I thought it was leather bound, but you said it's cotton bound on the edges with about four inches of cotton on both sides. This just is traditional at its finest. One thing I just want to note, like it's kind of like a high baseboard. Like when you do feel that skirt wall. And we're doing it more and more just so you can feel the fluidity of this architecture of a stairwell versus seeing just like the zigzag, right? I think there's something, there's like a really like lovely Guggenheim discipline to it.

21:54Yes. Well said. I've just seen that go up and down. You see it again in our Boston project, which obviously is historic, and you have just stairs, you know, five stories of stairs. And what is the thing that's going to give you relief? It's doing that little wall. And I think that there's such a beauty in that. I love, thank you for bringing that up. Quick note here. It's hard to tell from the profile, but we also have sconces placed within the paneling. And these are just really beautiful, soft curved alabaster sconces. Italian. Yeah, this is a really nice place, I think, to use alabaster because it's connecting with all this beautiful paneling.

22:30It's atypical, but you have seen a lot of designers come out with options like this. And I just think that stone mounted to the wall of all this beautiful paneling, you've got wood, you've got wool, you've got brass, you've got iron. It's just another really beautiful material. And you mentioned the runner. One thing I'm like, it's traditional at best, but it does feel very fashion house. I think the rhythm of that. And so I think you can kind of reference some of those those disciplines too as you're picking out that scarf moment going up and down the stairs. I can't say enough good things about this house.

23:01I'm so excited for you to see it. Our next one we're going to talk about is our Linden Art Manor. This one was a fun one because she wanted it to feel historic. She wanted it to feel you know old school. The whole exterior was kind of fashioned after like an old pioneer house. It's all masonry and stone and it does there's something really nostalgic about the exterior and a lot of notes when you're going through the interior one of which is the stairwell. We did this amazing wood railing. And then we could see the builder was amazing. And I can't remember what it was called, like the CNC panels that they did to create this rhythm, this cutout almost up that whole railing.

23:37There's three stories. It goes up to an attic and then down to a basement. And you see this detail going up and down all those floors. And it's so fun. It never ever gets old. Yeah. You guys. And that's the thing that she probably gets the number one compliment is her stairs. And I love that we did it in a stain versus painting it white would have been the easy move. But we did it in a stain to, again, to kind of reference the history. I think the first time I ever did one of these, this kind of cutout motif, it was referencing the steamboat. Mark Twain's steamboat from Disneyland. And she's just like, we love that ride.

24:09And so we did this whole railing based off that. And I can't not think of that. It's just like a peek into childhood, but refined. Yeah. And it feels very unique. Like instead of balustrades kind of like running in a rhythm, just to kind of paint you guys a little bit of a picture. It's a balustrade wall, essentially. So it's like a wall and it's like Sue said, they use a CNC to kind of cut out a what shape would you get? Elongated oval. Elongated oval. Yeah. Yeah. And then that creates the rhythm, you know, either ascending or descending, depending upon how you're looking at it. And yeah, I've seen this in person.

24:42That was the very first thing I saw when I walked in this home. It was crazy. It blew me away. So you guys did a great job. a sign of a spectacular build is a really good looking set of stairs. And the thing that I love about both this and some other examples that we're going to talk about is when you do have this whole wood system, it's millwork, but it's almost like if you think of like a pony wall, that's, you know, is this is all constructed out of wood, you know, you have the cutouts, but then how it terminates, you know, you could have had like a big fat knoll post, you know, it could have been square or, you know, something you'd think of, you know, in the 1990s home.

25:15But I love that we did this, almost this little serpentine at the bottom to kind of again just like add to the fluid motion of what is a very geometric equation of stairs you know if you would have done that i think if you just run it straight into a new post what you guys did using the white oak it ties it to the flooring that's on you know multiple levels and then on the stair treads themselves if you just run that straight into a new post instead of kind of spiraling it down to the flooring itself it wouldn't have been as connected it would be like its own like a separate thing you guys thought of the transition and the best way to connect it to that and you killed it yeah thank you and when you're working with your builder if you're working on the stair and you like this idea make sure to show them these pictures so that they know how to finish that because they're going to ask you yeah and then if you don't know then they'll just like they'll come up they'll make up something they're going to something that's easy they're going to do the easy button really because this is again the interaction when you're coming up and down the stairs i imagine that that thing is just going to get shinier and shinier yeah as the years go on because that is just like such a throwaway for her whole family kids and coming up and down the stairs and it really does become a memory point we know things about the home that we grew up in and the memories that we had there and the things that were special and i guarantee you the stairway is that for them yeah that's why this is important tiger oak let's talk about that because that also has this was a balustrade wall balustrade wall balustrade wall that we treated with paneling again i love this entry forever and always this is a really nice solution i feel like because staircases can become so expensive they can be real budget blowers and i think doing this pony wall or balustrade wall and then just cladding it all in finish work this is a straight run staircase right you walk up two steps you're on a on a landing and then you you go up i think there's another landing and then you go up again You could do a great big beautiful circular staircase which would be 10x the budget but I think keeping the stairs in square formation straight runs is more affordable and then you can add to it in such a beautiful way.

27:22You can see the rhythms of the paneling here come off of the window breaks and they created really lovely rhythm of rectangles and lines and then you've got this lovely lovely pony wall that comes down serpentines like we did over at Linden Art Manor at the bottom creating a soft shape and the sconces are so dialed in into the paneling even routed out even routed out to fit the actual sconce and the sconce I think is really young and almost industrial and I think the runner is just really fantastic a needle point kind of flame stitch marbled runner is it this whole thing is so unexpected so handsome and I think a really good trick that nobody's doing yeah and the runner like that runner was not cheap that was a very expensive runner but it looks it yeah you know what i mean like it's just that's about one soft detail and that whole situation and it just like it lifts it and you only see like a peekaboo of it but you're just like i cannot wait to go see what they did upstairs but i just think if you're doing it just splurge on the runner you really do need to just do it yeah yeah because you're gonna get so much credit it's the stairs that are in your entryway this is your moment to shine take the money that you saved doing the balustrade wall and put that into the runner exactly i do You want to say that I've gone back to homes where we proposed something fantastic.

28:37And for budget reasons, they had a cut. So they went to something more standard. And it feels it. I go and I'm just like, gosh, that was the opportunity missed. Yeah. Because I'm just like, because I've seen it at a million other homes, that exact same herringbone runner from Shaw. You know, and I know it's cheaper, but you look like everybody else. And so I'm like, go for the splurge. Well said. Before we move on, I just want to touch on the balustrade wall. The reason that's called a balustrade wall is because it is decorated with finished work. The inexpensive thing to do is to frame a pony wall.

29:08So a short wall that runs up the same height as like a handrail would or balustrade's wood. Where I think production homes get it wrong is that they don't treat that wall with anything. So it just becomes a pony wall that's running up your staircase. And it's just so underwhelming. Yeah. And just not interesting. I would rather see the Home Depot wood balustrade. 100%. Than that. Because you're going to lacquer that later if you did get that. Yeah. Actually, we'll show you at the end of the podcast. We have that exact Home Depot balustrade that we lacquered just because budgets didn't allow. And I think the outcome was really great.

29:42And so many can relate to that one. Yeah. So no more pony walls that don't have any finish work on them. That's not it. It's not a thing. Yeah. Amen. This is a project called St. John's. We have this beautiful system of lighting and it is lovely bocce balls. We've got a series of 12 here that are all suspended from an aircraft cable, and it just feels like carbonated bubbles floating in the sky at night. It's such a payoff when you walk into the room. You're seeing the furniture, but then this is such a breathtaking view to see two stories float up. This floating staircase, it's just an absolute breathtaking view of the home.

30:19So this lighting actually spans the entire staircase. They have a second stair tower in the home. And here we've done this really beautiful David Hicks light that's hanging above the center of the stair tower. So we didn't do sconces here. This is almost like an art installation. Both stair towers have almost like an art installation, a more contemporary home. So a simpler solution, but an interesting solution. Both have like a ball-like element to them. And I thought this was a really, a really lovely solution for a contemporary stair tower. I will say, I'm glad that you said that they're both like non-directional.

30:52It's like a ball shape because I think this goes without saying, if you've listened to this podcast, that we love a non-directional chandelier or a lighting moment. I think specifically, we actually just like are having these homeowner, client in Boca Raton, bought a really lovely, beautiful, expensive estate and we're ripping out all the lighting. It doesn't do it justice. It doesn't reflect her. And the ones that are over the staircase are these three square, almost lantern things. But like just, I don't know, the harshness of the lines, interacting with each other and then standing over this like, again, quite geometric stairwell.

31:26It's just too much. It's too harsh. I feel like I have blades coming at my eyes. Like I can't handle it. Stairs are just a series of straight lines. And so this is your moment to do soft shapes. Thank you. Yeah. And this goes for everybody. If you're going in to choose lighting and you do want the lights to relate, much like the St. John's project, even though these are on opposite ends of the house and you do not see them at the same time, there's still something that coordinates with these. and it's these beautiful soft ball-like shapes that give a softness to this very angular floating staircase.