NAB 2025 Preview: Blackmagic, Adobe, Sony

11:55Addy:Wow.

11:56Joey:That's also nuts.

11:58Addy:That's incredible.

11:59Joey:People are kind of freaked out about that thing with AI. And I was just a plug in in Resolve kind of buried in the feature set. I could totally see Hollywood casting a B or C level actor who's not that good with acting.

12:14Addy:And then just having an acting coach go in and post and just enhance the performance. Crazy. Just crazy. What a world we live in. If you're complaining today about not making a movie because you don't have access to the right actors or the right gear, no excuse.

12:34Joey:everything is at our disposal on the flip side there's just now so many tools with this where it's just like you can get analysis paralysis of never finishing everything that's true like i could just tweak every single detail about this thing ai ultra sharpen which they already had a built-in sharpener but this i don't know what's happening i'm guessing it's like a topaz type deal where they're doing some type of an like og kind of model or like i don't i don't think it's a diffusion model running under it.

13:06Addy:I've used Resolve's built-in upscaler before. It's pretty solid. It's good for a click-on.

13:11Joey:If you're on a PC and you have an NVIDIA card, then you get even more options for the upscaler. It unlocks more upscaling options because it can tap into the GPU. This one's also really cool and handy. It is a de-blur. Is this the enhance button from crime shows? Kind of. Yeah, it's, what's it called? Remove motion blur. So if you, like, whip panned or, like, moved too quick and you didn't get the details and you want to bring the details back, it makes a new version of the clip and brings the details back.

13:44Addy:That's pretty good. That video, that's pretty damn good, man. Even with motion.

13:50Joey:I remember now we were like, I want to add more motion blur. And now it's like, what if you want to remove motion blur?

13:57Addy:But I want to remove and then add to my blanking. I want to remove it and then add my own motion blur. I don't like the way blur is. I need to like add the right blur. Yeah, that's crazy. So that was the craziest stuff that I was like. That's so powerful. All of those are so powerful. I still stand by my stance that you cannot replace human performance with enhanced AI performance or puppetry or whatever. Having said that, people are going to absolutely try to figure out how to save dollars with these features.

14:25Joey:Yeah. And, you know, actor contracts will have to be add more stuff to it of what you can and can't do. Because we're already in performance agreements and stuff. We're already having what we can and can't do with voice cloning or ADR or that kind of stuff. And so, yeah, it's just going to get more and more. So everyone knows what's cool, what's extra permission, what's not cool. I mean, look, also on the flip side, going back to Resolve's great for synthetic videos. When it's an AI thing and you like most of it, but also you need to tweak the performance of the AI synthetic character, that's a different ballpark and also that's great if you can generate your video and then bring it into resolve and tweak the performance of the AI generation my guess is it won't work right

15:08Addy:it's a face I mean it's a face I forgot where I heard this Joey but I heard that um like an AI generated video really struggles with camera tracking because of the inherent noise and like camera tracking stuff just absolutely goes bonkers so you think if I had an AI video of like

15:23Joey:like a human face character, it wouldn't, it would have trouble picking up on it.

15:28Addy:Yeah, it wouldn't stick. Yeah, I don't think it would stick really well, like the markers and stuff. Yeah.

15:33Joey:All right. Gonna have to try that. Once I update, I have not updated because the one annoying thing about Resolve is you have to like, unlike Adobe, where you can have your like main release version, but then you can also install the beta version as two separate apps. So you can go back and forth with Resolve. The beta version replaces the stable version. so you have to like commit to going on the beta version which oh got it now it's like photoshop

16:00Addy:beta and photoshop yeah the beta has all the cool stuff yeah but photoshop will let you install

16:05Joey:photoshop as one app and then it'll let you install photoshop beta as a separate app so you can go back and forth resolve won't do that you gotta like commit so i've not committed yet especially

16:14Addy:someone like you who's always editing producing you can't you can't shake the tree man normally

16:20Joey:normal joey it was like let's go just update it's all the beta but lessons learned joey going into nab with the team of like a couple editors and we're all going to need to be on a stable system of resolve uh is like we'll wait until after it until yeah i'll tell you what since i don't do

16:39Addy:any production anymore um i'll do some beta testing yeah go check it out yeah okay yeah go

16:45Joey:take some ai clips i'm very curious about this take some ai clips and see what these filters uh how these filters work with it that's a good idea shout out to black magic yeah again i was i

16:55Addy:was i was expecting new i think they announced a new pixis camera as well that so camera wise and you're gonna probably see all that at the show and report back yeah i mean they announced

17:06Joey:all of it actually this is kind of a trend thing that i want to talk about so like the there really weren't any new like new camera bodies or any new like big camera updates the biggest thing was they added 100g ethernet ports to a couple of the cameras uh so the cine camera the ursa and the pixis 12k there's a more expensive model everything about the body sensor like everything's exactly the same literally the only thing that changed is 100g ethernet output yeah it's interfaces that change

17:38Addy:And they're gearing up their product line for broadcast more so. Red is also doing the same. I know Red recently launched an entire broadcast division, so they're taking the Raptor, and then just like Blackmagic, they're just attaching a bunch of ports that you need for broadcast, and then it's a new camera, it's a new product.

17:57Joey:Yeah, that's speed we don't really need for film, but yeah, it was for high-speed, data throughput, slow-mo to go into broadcast. And yeah, I mean, they kind of built out a additional tools where you could have a live broadcast version of the Cine Immersive. So they also have support with an update with like Constellation. There's like a hundred thousand dollar Constellation, like their video mixer and some of their other video tools, like in the broadcast realm, which we don't really talk about much. but they kind of built out enough of the tool set to have a pipeline where you could do an immersive live broadcast event.

18:37Joey:Kind of like what they're doing at Cosm, but, you know, Cosm, everything with Cosm is proprietary to them. Yeah, they have their own cameras.

18:45Addy:Yeah. Right. And so does the sphere.

18:47Joey:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if you were like, I want to do stuff like that, but like, I don't have the R &D budget to build our entire camera ecosystem. Now there's like a Blackmagic solution.

18:56Addy:And they did a big overhaul on Fairlight.

18:58Joey:their audio mixing stuff to have like an immersive live audio mixing platform so you can mix you can capture immersive audio mix it have the video camera the camera is with immersive video so kind of the whole pipeline to do some sort of live immersive yeah what a what a age we live in

19:17Addy:i mean from hardware to software out to distribution like it's all becoming more and more seamless and painless that's yeah it's incredible the fact that there weren't like

19:27Joey:any other kind of bigger camera updates and it's mostly broadcast focus feels like a continuation of what we talked about last year where like last year at nab felt like the most broadcast centric

19:39Addy:nab that i've been to it's like back to being national association of broadcasters because it

19:44Joey:was pretty film for a while it was very film i mean that was where like uh free fly launched the movie a while a long time ago and then like the ronin came out from dji and drones and it was a lot of Red had a huge booth there. It was where a lot of the cinema cameras would launch their stuff.

20:00Addy:Ari had the lights and the cameras. Ari's booths are famous. Red had a movie theater. Yeah, and Sony has that corner where they showed off the new Venises and all that stuff. Look, I think you would probably agree that the big trend is film, hardware, sales is slowing down, and so they got to recuperate and make up that

20:25Joey:with broadcast hardware events and sports and all that is still like the one big growth area for for a lot of the media companies so right it makes sense that that's most of the focus for what the company's focusing on because uh they've got money to buy yeah i mean if you look at like

20:42Addy:amazon and netflix who both have pivoted hard into live events those things need a lot of hardware yeah in order for them to do that yeah yeah one thing i will say i am bummed about there was

20:52Joey:really no update for black magic cloud they have like a new they have like a new deck mountable cloud store thing but nothing on the software side that addresses a lot of the cloud storage synchronization features and issues with like black with um resolve and black magic cloud in general

21:12Addy:so that's my one bummer yeah you're you're a heavy bmd cloud user my one sort of tinfoil hat theory on that is cloud costs have gone exponentially up right with all of the ai cloud inference and training that's happening so my guess is black magic's internal aws cost or whatever infrastructure they're using has gone up and um they're probably going to hold off on cloud development because um it's just not something they're making a lot of money in at the moment I don't know.

21:42Joey:All right. Well, that was a tin hat theory. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe. But also, we're trying a new workflow, this NAB, which I'll talk about in a second. All right. Next up, Adobe stuff. So Adobe's two big updates. The big one at Premiere is they've launched a completely revamped color mode. The theory behind this was kind of redesigning color built more towards editors and not colorists and color specialists. so it's this more simplified color wheel drag and drop interface where you have more minimal like instead of like having your three color wheels you kind of have this one unified wheel your video is much bigger uh click and drag to make changes and kind of i think the idea was just more like getting the change you have in your head make it easier to do in apply to the video versus mixing like three or four different color wheels and trying to get it right when you're not a colorist so yeah so it's kind of a completely new color mode and a complete revamp uh on the system and there's different ways you could have it just apply just color clip color your timeline color sequence yeah so i haven't messed around with it but i'm gonna dig into it soon but it looked like a pretty good streamlined like new color experience for yeah i mean it's not just

22:57Addy:streamlined it's probably doing it's probably doing so much under the hood like there's probably a lot of neural stuff happening um with just like one little click one little shift that's probably triggering like a bunch of different workflows and like it's analyzing the media and masking and all types of things because as they were adjusting the color in that video i was noticing that it's not a global effect like it is specifically selecting portions of the frame to apply that in

23:24Joey:oh yeah good point like tying in their smart masking which they've kind of been rolling out lately with coloring yeah that's a good that's a good point yeah i'm curious too if it has features to either like if you have a reference image to kind of like color match like against a reference image to like match the color timing of that or also to match if you have two different interview shots like match the color between the two. Simple stuff like that where you kind of comes up a lot where you like have multiple cameras you want to just equalize them if it has easy features to fix that.

23:53Addy:Yeah, I welcome it. I welcome anything that is simple enough to get 90 % of the job done, right? For the other 10 % you have the colorists who are on Resolve that are going to go ham. But for most of us, like if this gets us 90 % there and it's a YouTube video. Yeah, and if this looks really better than what I would have tried to do myself, awesome. And not having to, like, look, Resolve's great,

24:16Joey:super powerful, but also like for, like you said, YouTube stuff, it's like, I don't need 20 node trees to do that. And I spend my day trying to figure that out. So yeah, it's cool. And then other Adobe one, this was also pretty neat. frame.io now has a way to mount locally. So it's called frame drive. And it's basically you can take your frame.io account mounted on your computer as a local drive, kind of like LucidLink. So it appears as a hard drive, you have access, you could stream all the videos instantaneously or whatever media you have. And frame.io, it shows up as a local hard drive.

24:48Addy:Oh, wow, that's cool. I mean, that's how Google Drive mounted itself as well.

24:52Joey:Google Drive falls apart with videos. So like it doesn't like, if you wanted to edit a video, if you wanted to edit a project and your media was stored in Google Drive, your file, your video files, you would have to pin all those video files to download them locally. There's no way that Google Drive is built to stream video files in real time. Right. It's just not built for that kind of throwaway. It's built for text files and just keeping your stuff in sync or easy moving.

25:20Addy:PDFs.

25:21Joey:this I believe is it can do like similar to lucid link lucid link will do uh will stream your files in real time so you can edit off of video files off your virtual drive seamlessly I believe this will do the same thing and we'll have that seamless playback so you could have your raw video files in your frame io link or frame io drive you could load it up for premiere bring in your video files and edit with them while they're still technically stored in frame io

25:48Addy:Yeah, that seems like the missing link between Frame.io and Premiere. They're trying to close that last mile problem, which is pretty cool. Question for you, Mr. Editor, how similar or dissimilar is this Frame.io drive to Strata?

26:02Joey:I'll get to that in my next tab. All right. I will hold that question. What was I going to say? You know, talking about the missing link, I think I probably rambled about this multiple times. But that was the advantage that Blackmagic Cloud had with Resolve and that ecosystem they built where Blackmagic Cloud can synchronize your project for a team, collaborative, plus handle the media and the proxies with their server. And I was always like, it's really frustrating that Premiere has a team feature that just manages a collaborative project. But they were always like, for the proxies or for the media, you're on your own.

26:34Joey:Maybe use LucidLink or figure something else out.

26:37Addy:I think this should be that missing piece.

26:39Joey:I haven't dug into the workflow. And I mean, it would be shocking to me if they built this thing and it doesn't do real-time editing or can't handle the proxy media or all your media with a premier team project. But this shouldn't be that missing piece. If not, that's kind of crazy.

26:59Addy:Yeah. And the solutions that Frame.io has developed, it's so solid and bulletproof. It doesn't crash. You know, it works under many conditions, many platforms and things like that. So, yeah. Yeah.

27:11Joey:I mean, as much as I love all the other cloud platforms and stuff, we still have a robust frame.io account because the review tool is the video playback. Being able to handle like files of any size. It just works. Chef's kiss. Like, big fan of frame.io, even with all the other tools I use, I still, I still, it's still kind of the backbone to a lot of stuff. Yeah. Okay. Strata Connect. So Strata Connect basically does the same exact thing that I just talked about. Okay, that's what I was going to get to. From a user perspective, it will mount to your computer and you'll be able to edit and stream video files in real time.

27:47Joey:And you can load them in Resolve or Premiere or wherever and edit with this virtually mounted drive. The big difference is Strata Connect has zero cloud storage. So Strata Connect is working off of a, let's say my computer, A, here, my laptop, I have a hard drive plugged into it with the original media. I turn this computer into a host. So this computer is on Strata. It's pulling the files from my connected hard drive. And then other computer editor anywhere else in the world, load Strata. My hard drive on this computer shows up as a hard drive on their computer. and then they can still edit the videos in real time and play back the videos and bring those videos into premiere resolve and edit those video files dude that's bonkers it's basically peer to

28:37Addy:peer yeah so yeah it's like lime wire on steroids yeah frame io you still have to have your media

28:44Joey:stored on frame io and you're you know still paying your storage cost same with lucid lucid LucidLink has the craziest pricing. It's like 80 bucks a terabyte. So they have the craziest per terabyte pricing.

28:54Addy:They're also very professional grade.

28:56Joey:Yeah, I mean, they've been around for a while. It works. They've built out a system. If you're an enterprise and you want something that is definitely going to work, LucidLink has proven that. Strata, this is new. So we are going to try Strata. At the show? At NAB. I'm going to test out. So basically still using... With the crappy Wi-Fi at the show, you're going to do this? No, it's going to be at the Airbnb. Oh, okay, okay. So like at the Airbnb, there'll be like Iodine let me one of their big, crazy, big, like 20 terabyte RAID hard drive things. That'll store all the original files. That'll be plugged into like a Mac mini that's just always on.

29:30Joey:That's the Strata host. And then all the editors will mount that Strata drive and can stream and edit the videos as if it's showing up on their own computer. Also, Strata can handle Blackmagic RAW, which was a big limitation before. It cannot play back Blackmagic RAW in real time, to clarify. That's okay. That's okay.

29:54Addy:I think if you just download it, that's fine, yeah.

29:57Joey:They'll have to edit in proxies. I mean, we always make proxies anyway, so they'll be editing with the proxies, and then when it's ready to export, it exports from the actual Blackmagic RAW.

30:07Addy:So you'll be in Vegas with that. What I'll do is I'll have BitTorrent up in NLA, and I'll download the Strata torrent from here. Sounds good. Strata torrent.

30:18Joey:You're just going to rip all the footage out of the drive. So, yeah, Strata works. I mean, it's going to be great because, yeah, there's no cloud storage. You just plug in your hard drive and your hard drive turns into a cloud drive, which has been this missing link forever of, you know, you're like, oh, cloud storage is great. It is great, but it never gets smaller. And you're just paying like month to month. that you're always just paying that storage fee.

30:43Addy:Any kind of innovation and outside-the-box thinking in our industry, I welcome. This feels like really outside-the-box thinking. It was awesome.

30:52Joey:It just turns the drive into a cloud drive and you can just edit video in real time.

30:57Addy:I wonder, though, since they're not charging for cloud access and storage and all that, how is the pricing and the licensing working?

31:04Joey:It's pretty reasonable. It's per seat. If you add people to your folder and stuff, it's like$12 a user a month. if you want to transfer the files, they do charge a limit to that. So like you can edit my files off the drive in real time. But if you wanted to copy those files, or if I wanted to receive files from you, I can like send someone a link, be like, hey, like, you know, send me the footage, use this link and upload it, and it'll add that footage to my hard drive. Transfers, they charge a little bit more. That's pretty much the kind of cap. But it's basically however many people you add to your project you just get charged per seat uh 12 dollars a month really

31:44Addy:reasonable pricing it's like half as expensive as frame io like from what it looks and depending

31:48Joey:how much you use frame io and how much you're storing so i mean i connected the like 80 terabyte nas to strata so like anything on there is potentially accessible where like an editor can access and use that footage so right that's where it starts getting crazy when it's like oh if you have terabytes of media stored and you could just turn your entire NAS into a cloud drive without having to pay all of that, all those storage fees.

32:16Addy:Yeah, I guess like the if I were to nitpick like the Achilles heel for all of this is really going to be the Wi-Fi at the Airbnb for you.

32:24Joey:Yes, it's going to be like I'll hardwire into the internet, but I don't know what the speed is. You know, Michael said that it's run on pretty mediocre Wi-Fi because it'll just kind of reduce the quality um and there is a cache feature so like it will try to download the active files in the background to the local computer so that it does speed things up but yeah it's um you're at the mercy of the internet you know just power in general in that area and also like i have to have a host computer running if that host computer freezes you know some glitch with that then yes it knocks the entire thing offline and you know you're kind of there are like single points of failure for this.

33:01Joey:So yeah, that, you know, that's the trade off for well, hopefully there's like,

33:05Addy:you know, built in error correction and recovery modes where you lose the connection, but it doesn't really kill your session per se.

33:13Joey:Yeah, I mean, it would just be your video files would go offline because the actual project, we're still using Blackmagic Cloud to manage the actual like project library. So like that's still saved and local in a different system. So if like the device went offline it would sort of be like someone unplugged your hard drive by accident add your media files would go offline but the actual timeline and project itself would still be preserved cool yeah awesome all right one other update from sony that's coming is a new feature uh in xin which was like their kind of spatial capture xin world realm yeah remember i think we've talked about a while ago they were they they built some of the um like 3d display monitors and then they had some of the 3d headsets yes it's kind of like an ecosystem for like building 3d worlds and tools to like work and manipulate in them so they have a 3d world scanner pipeline that is basically it's an iphone app but you do have to have a sony camera but you attach your phone to the camera run the app and then use the alpha camera as the capture device

34:21Addy:and then the phone guides you for capturing the space okay so it's it's like um the reconstruction is being done on the phone itself the phone's mapping to doing the reconstruction you're

34:32Joey:capturing the images with your higher quality alpha camera and then i'm guessing later on you post-process the two and get a three it's not a gauze and splat it is a probably gonna be

34:45Addy:regular mesh yeah obj or yeah glb or one of those file formats what do you think of this I'm just curious why now in 2026. This would have been really suitable for when 3D scanners were really hot and new back 10 years ago when Leico was rolling up. There's ArcTech. There's a bunch of 3D scanners. Even with this, you have apps on your phone now like Polycam, which does a really good job with the iPhone camera itself.

35:15Joey:Yeah, and that's probably, it seems like Polycam on steroids, because you probably use the same iPhone LiDAR data that's like, okay, not like a dedicated LiDAR, but okay data. And then a better image capture from the Sony mirrorless camera.

35:30Addy:Yeah, they should have just saved the money from the development and not let go of all of Pixelmando.

35:35Joey:That's just my opinion.

35:37Addy:I don't see the point of this now, especially because AI is about to completely revolutionize this space anyway.

35:45Joey:i know i would see like if they already built the found the the groundwork they should try to switch this to like at least do gaussian splats like one way that's 40gs yeah yeah for sure they need to like it's a cool idea of this workflow where you kind of pair of stuff you already have or the you know the camera's pretty accessible but yeah this needs to be doing gaussian splats

36:04Addy:yeah and also like with a lot of first frame last frame like if you put that through a cling model You can kind of get some orbital stuff out of it, just with two or three images.

36:16Joey:I see what you're saying, like these kind of background things you could just generate versus...

36:21Addy:Yeah, you can just generate and have the parallax that you need or whatnot on a case-by-case basis.

36:27Joey:You don't really need to capture it. If I'm already there at this place to capture this first frame, last frame, then I'd rather just capture the whole thing.

36:34Addy:Yeah, I mean, I don't know who the market for any of this stuff is, who's going to be buying it. It's certainly not consumers.

36:40Joey:you know yeah i mean i you know there's demoing the curved look like as if you're gonna put this on a wall but i know a lot of the zen stuff is also for like headset work and things sure sure and games yeah i don't know who'd use it for virtual production yeah it does say virtual

36:57Addy:it's funny it says virtual production even though you guys are closing down some stages

37:01Joey:uh oh look a disguise thing plug-in for disguise okay okay so the disguise plug-in would most

37:08Addy:likely be for concert touring or something like that yeah yeah that makes sense some sort of more experiential kind of thing than an actual wall yeah exactly all right well i'm gonna talk to them

37:20Joey:sunday morning so i'll find out more information all right sounds good and then on the flip side well not really flip side but speaking of super immersive worlds uh and not really nab related but this was going around on x the other day nvidia has a new spatial model uh lira 2.0 it's kind of feels like world labs on steroids it is like or g the quality is high the quality is high on this video it is moving through a world that is being generated but it is like it keeps going and it's persistent and you can go back and it remembers i don't know what the duration is but

37:52Addy:this yeah this feels pretty crazy yeah i mean like after they launched the autonomous driving stuff which was what just a few months back you knew that they were working on some incredible world

38:03Joey:models yeah well they all tie together as we have said multiple times all roads lead to world models physical ai yeah but yeah look i mean it's moving around this like detailed intricate library house

38:14Addy:thing everything's staying that is so high quality versus like a gaussian splat or something

38:20Joey:yeah and like insane we just went upstairs we moved into different rooms like there's no nothing's falling apart oh they're at the edge of that door but like we just moved through a house

38:30Addy:Yeah, the video render is so sharp.

38:32Joey:Yeah, so this thing, I'm going to have to test it out. This is pretty wild.

38:36Addy:You can test it out? How would you test it out? I thought that model was open or code.

38:42Joey:I think you could run locally. Or someone spins it up on the cloud.

38:46Addy:Or if I code a UI on top of whatever. I don't know, I'm just going to give it the cloud and ask it,

38:51Joey:like, hey, how do I use this thing?

38:53Addy:I love that. I love that, Joey. Yeah, exactly. Just give it the web link. I don't have time. Be rude as well. Actually, I don't have time for this.

39:01Joey:I am going to try. I'm going to have a whole kind of workflow breakdown for the NAB stuff. But one of the ideas is to, because Resolve has built-in scripting stuff. So I want to, my goal is to have Claude set up a way to automatically, like once an editor is done with a timeline, that it automatically just grabs a timeline, spins up Resolve, loads an export preset, and then just exports it. So they don't have to wait, sit around, or wait for that to happen. And that's one of my other goals for the show.

39:30Addy:I love it. All right. Keep me posted.

39:33Joey:And last one, another thing from World Labs. They released a new version of Spark. So I didn't realize this, but Spark is sort of their web viewable 3D Gaussian splat platform to view splats on the web. So they develop it. And then they released a new update to basically.

39:48Addy:This also feels much higher quality than their last version.

39:51Joey:It's just to play the splats in a browser, right? versus actual scanning. I mean, they have released updates to their world model, Marble, in the last few weeks. Yeah, this is so like, just make splats more web viewable and open that up to putting them in the web.

40:09Addy:Yeah, I think in the future, all video models will basically be a derivative of world models. And that way you get the consistency of spatial spaces. Like, you know, you can put the camera here versus there. Yeah, that's what I understand.

40:25Joey:the space instead of trying to just make one frame after the other. Exactly.

40:29Addy:So even if you dedicate a little bit of inference time to generating that world first and then the rest of the inference to generate the video in really high quality, I think that would make sense.

40:39Joey:This table might be the most famous table and bicycle in the world. You've seen this table, right? It's from the original 3D Gaussian splat paper. It's like in this table backyard thing always comes up in all of these. oh really gauze and splat demos yeah it's like a table and there's like a bike next to a bench that was like the first demos and so they always resurface nice this is the amazing wrap up to

41:04Addy:pre-nab and uh a little bit of love for the world models love it yeah see i'll be at nab sadly addy will not sad oh this is the second year that i'm missing i i'm really bummed i hope to see you at NAB next year. Yeah. You know what? I'm just going to go. Just go.

41:23Joey:You will be there next year. Manifest it. Yes, I'll be there next year. Maybe next year we'll finally be able to do a live podcast at the show.

41:29Addy:Yeah. And any of the viewers, if you are at NAB, you want to meet up with Joey, take some selfies.

41:36Joey:Yeah, let me know in the comments. Get us in the comments. Thanks for everything you talked about at denoispodcast.com. Thanks for watching, and we'll catch you in the next episode.