Sora's Copyright U-Turn

0:28Welcome back to Denoise. episode i was in the desert for like one day and my lips got so destroyed they like they finally look normal again but they were like they i killed them and i've been putting vaseline on them like for like days yeah for those of you who haven't seen joey's episode on one battle after another locations at borrego springs highly suggest you check it out he really geeked out on the locations thank you appreciate that yeah the original idea was uh to also bring in more about vista vision uh it didn't pan out of that video but i'm hoping to do that in a future video i'm still also really looking for the hills so also if you really if you know where those hills are from one battle after another please let me know because i'm still looking for it and i've been on google maps street view for a long time and cannot find i need that guy who just looks at the image of like street view and he's like yeah it's in it's in africa and here oh yeah that guy on youtube that could literally spot yeah no just do it to chat tbt research i tried i've tried that okay It gave me guesses, but it didn't actually give me the thing.

1:28All right. So actually, before we jump into it, one mention of an event coming up. This is Monday. We're putting this out Tuesday. So later this week, first week of October, Thursday, Friday is Infinity Fest, which is a cool kind of AI meets tech event. I know it's done in a few years. I haven't gone before. Have you gone? Yeah, I've been to many of those. I love the team that does it, Mark Lieber, Eric Weaver, and them. Yeah. Yeah. So this Thursday, Friday is the event. I'm moderating a panel on Friday on AI innovations in virtual production. Nice. We're going to be talking a lot about Gautam Splats 2.

2:03Paul Debovic. Paul Debovic is on your panel? Paul Debovic is going to be on the panel, yes. Oh, yeah, he's a good father, man. That's cool. I know. And Fernando from Volinga, we did a long interview about their work with Gautam Splats and ACES Color Management and a bunch of other cool people are going to be on the panel. And there's a bunch of other awesome events and panels going on the entire time. So if you're in LA, come check it out. if you use code IF2520, you can get 20 % off. And yeah, hit me up if you're going to be there. Nice. I'll be there. I'll see you there. Yeah, I'll see you there.

2:34Yeah, day one's at the Academy Museum, which I'm also excited to check out because I have not been there yet. And then day two's at Sony. It's a very swanky space. I love that space, yeah. The Academy Museum? It's right next to the tar pits, I believe. I know, yeah, I've seen it. I've seen the building. I've just never actually been into it. Okay, first story. More Sora updates because, you know, we got to talk about Sora. it's a never ending stream of updates so in our last episode i think the big thing we talked about was like not only was it the new model it was the app but the big thing was they took everyone's ip and basically said we're going to use your ip but if you don't want us to use it you let us know and you have to manually opt out of every single individual ip unsurprisingly uh that pissed off a lot of people so they've reversed course and now they're basically flipping it and saying okay, it's going to be an opt-in model.

3:20If you want to make your IP available to users on the Sora app or in the Sora model, you can opt in. As we said before, it's like it already knows everything. So it's already trained on everything. It's just a matter of the guardrails and the permission of what it lets users generate. Yeah, it just put an additional pie crust. And the pie crust has holes that controls to let the steam out. You know, when we were talking about this last week, I forgot to mention something I thought of. Ed Ulbrich, who is now at Moon Valley. At TIFF, he was on a panel about AI and media entertainment. And their approach and what they were talking about with the concerns of like IP, other people's IP leaking into your generations was like their model, they just don't even train on IP characters at all.

4:06So it's like if you ask the model, you know, like make a Batman or make a Superman or something, it's just like it just doesn't know because it's not trained on it, which is like, obviously a different approach from Soar and the other models where it was trained on it, and that's just a matter of putting in those guardrails and the text decoder to prevent people from using it, but the model knows. And they're like, our model just doesn't know, so there's no way it could actually make any IP. It's sort of the ethical way to do it, the right way to do it. I would say the way OpenAI did it, where they just trained on everything, is that even when you train on ip data and don't show it that still benefits the model because it just has a better understanding of uh superheroes for example so if you're trying to build your own superhero it's trained on all the marvel superheroes but it won't show you the marvel ones but it has a good understanding of what a superhero cape is what you know chrome-plated armor looks like and so on yeah the other the other thing in sam alman's update post was they're going to look Like it had obviously ways to monetize this and some sort of rev share arrangement with IP copyright holders.

5:16So that would be interesting. And sort of kind of what we talked about last week, too, where it's like, what if it was flipped and it was like, oh, if you're a company with IP and you want to make, you know, as a marketing employee, you want people to be able to generate videos with characters from your IP. That's a platform. But also it's like, okay, well, what if you make your characters available and people use it? And then there's some sort of rev share every time your character's cameo is used in someone's prompt. Yeah, I would say like... It's kind of like a YouTube model. There's maybe two ways to see this.

5:46One, the precious IP from film and television. I don't think those guys are looking to open it up to everybody to then just let them go ham, if you will, right? On the other hand, the IP that belongs to brands, specifically, like if you think about Tony the Tiger and Kellogg's and Snap, Crackle and Pop and all those like characters that we know and love, I think for them, it's free marketing, free advertising. So why not just open it up? Right. But on the film and TV side, you know, the generations will not let will probably never look as good as what the movie looks like. And it'll look off and it'll obviously do things that you don't want the Mandalorian to do or whatnot.

6:24So they're much more protected and I think more conservative in that sense. But on the brand and agency side, I think they'll turn it on. Yeah. I mean, I think if like if your central product is not media entertainment, so like the Tony the Tiger, it's like they're trying to sell cereal. So like if you want to freely put Tony the Tiger in your videos and promote, push Tony the Tiger out and it's just in more people's mind awareness, that ultimately helps their goal of like just being more top of mind and driving more cereal sales. Exactly. they're not trying to sell tony the tiger like characters uh but yeah if it's the mandalorian or whatever yeah yeah i could see it as as more of um you're doing a promotion you're you're promoting whatever k-pop demon hunters you're promoting inside out or some other thing and it's like wednesday adams right and it's like oh hey like why don't i put myself in the uh wednesday school or a video with wednesday or a video with like me fighting reacher to reuse all the examples that i did last week those examples you have save them because you're probably not going to be able to generate them again yeah i haven't rerun the prompts but i'm going to guess that i can't rerun any of those prompts even last week i was like hey like i made a prompt once with the characters and then i tried to do it again and it kept blocking me and saying that it uh infringed or that it was blocked for ip reasons yeah i mean i don't think i think in the user i don't think they really are expecting or need that high quality of an output for it to look photorealistic it's like these are you know we said these were like ugc sort of type videos and so if it includes a mandalorian that like isn't going to look like as photorealistic and high quality as you would see in the actual tv show but it's just like hey i want to like you know walk around moss eisley with uh mando and star wars gear like cool like it's a fun little video that i can like post on my feed or share with my friends it degrades the ip and uh sort of the protection around the ip yeah i don't think like even if you do rev share and monetize on i don't think like a disney will ever turn on the mandalorian on sora no maybe if the quality gets better or if they make their own version but uh well i mean where do you see like what would you think the bar the quality bar level is for a company that would yeah i don't think it's visual quality on sora per se like of course if you draw sort of a linear line six months a year from now the quality is going to be you know way better probably as good as anything that we're seeing on screen today it's not going to be that fight i think the end of the day it's creative control like for example in the star wars universe and i worked on star wars stuff in the past and in my past life and there's like certain rules like oh you never put two stormtroopers next to this canister or you know the the x-wing is never placed next to this one because they're not from the same era and there's like all these rules that the ip has to follow in order for it to be accurate to the lore and it's going to be really difficult to reinforce not just the usage of ip but the usage of ip context right so yeah i mean but i still think this is like a different universe like i don't think they're anyone's expecting if they're using sora as like a marketing to promote the new Mandalorian movie that every output needs to adhere to star Wars canon.

9:37Like it's, I mean, also look, I mean, star Wars, they license their characters. Well, I mean, they also partly own it, but they license their characters to Fortnite as do tons of other characters. And like, they do crazy dances and they do things that like fit in the Fortnite universe. They do not make any sense in the star Wars universe. Like, you know, Vader hip hop dancing. Those are really well controlled deployments of that IP, right? Like the Fortnite artists build certain dance moves. It probably goes back to Lucasfilm. They have to approve it. Then it comes back and it's only used in, you know, 10 different ways versus like millions of ways you can skin the cat on Sora.

10:13I mean, I think, right, the guardrail, not only of like what character they could use, but they would want the guardrail. So just like, what can you make this character do and not do? Like, obviously not doing super inappropriate. Yeah, I guess it goes back to what you're seeing on social media today. Like if you open up traditional conventional TikTok without AI, how much of it is like repurposing Disney IP or, you know, Warner Brothers IP? Very little. No, I mean, I think what I see more of on TikTok is like fan recreations of moments from movies that are, you know, poking fun or making fun of it or just like reciting lines.

10:49But they're just doing like, you know, the worst, cheesiest cosplay ever, but it just makes it really funny. And just like if it looked photorealistic or something, it wouldn't be as funny. It's funny because it's like someone in their living room reenacting a scene from like Star Wars or from like some other TV show. And that that makes it funnier. And it turns into like commentary and a meme about the show and something that everyone can connect on who's watching the show because you're like reliving that moment because you all watched and experienced the same thing. Exactly. Yeah. So, I mean, if you I mean, if you were in your living room and you like could add a real Darth Vader next to you that you could like talk to and have a sketch with.

11:21I mean, a lot of the stuff only really works if you're like if it's a joke, if you're making fun of it. like if you're trying to be serious and make like an actual star wars fan fiction film that feels real doesn't really play off there's other ai tools for that and ones that will do the ip no problem especially the chinese models yeah a lot of stuff is more just like in the like in the joking role in the joking category like it all it works as a meme i'm curious though who has opted in because we haven't seen anyone that has opted in like when this came out last week there were you know, also, you know, was it William Morris or one of the big agencies or creative arts was like, none of all of our clients are opting out or like that, you know, we're like using AI to turbo opt everyone out.

12:01So now with this sort of flip side, it's like, okay, everyone's opted out. Who wants to opt it? We don't know anyone that's opted. Yeah. It's like, I'm not going first. No, you go. No, I'm not doing that. It's going to be one of those things. Yeah. Until someone big is just like, you know, F it. Fine. You're like, I'll do it. Sure. Anyone could use my likeness, which also might I think might tie into our next story yeah but um as we go into that did you see that Jake Paul shared his likeness for anybody to use no I did not that makes sense for him because it's like Jake Paul is like the brand and it's like yeah he wants the Jake Paul brand to be everywhere which then helps him leverage all the other stuff he's pushing like if he's doing a fight or if he's trying to sell more prime energy drink or like all the other stuff that he's involved in so it's like yeah and he literally like makes millions like getting beat up by other fighters so if he wants if he wants to virtually do that to help the jake paul brand that that makes sense like 100 makes sense for jake paul to just be like yeah do whatever you want to me at least i'm going to stay top of mind advertising for him again it's just like a brand i mean if you think of jake paul as his own brand it's just oh people are making content without me paying for it yeah exactly yeah it's like i just want my face to be out there more people do it for people will spend their time to put it out for for me awesome great sounds like a win all right i got a video to share with you uh i'm gonna send it to you here uh if you want to throw it up on the screen yeah baby nice uh nice hair day you got there i just uh i've been having a lot of fun with sora i think you have to we share videos like this all the time and uh i i was watching casey nestot's uh youtube video on sora do you know who you know who he is right okay i know who case you know what that is but yeah what did he yeah so he uh i mean look most youtube creators most content creators are are having that existential crisis just like a lot of other people yeah i saw mr beast had a tweet about it like are we even needed anymore so his whole take was you know during like the time before the 1980s and previously before that content creation was incredibly expensive difficult you need a gear you need a crew right and then from the time youtube was invented to like a couple years ago things just became substantially easier right like all you needed was a phone and a connection to the internet because youtube took took care of the distribution so like he sort of uh made the metaphor of a funnel right like as the funnel got bigger the actual amount of good content at the end of that funnel um also got bigger right because the overall sort of volume of content got bigger in the world so his argument and he kind of leaves us hanging is like okay so now that sora you could literally do anything you don't even need gear for it you don't need a camera you don't even need people and you can make anything you want so obviously the volume of content is going to exponentially increase but does that actually mean we're going to have more good content and he kind of leaves at that train of thought yeah i i've said this before when i you know because it feels like another version of the digital revolution when to you know what he's talking about like when things went from like okay you either had to shoot film or then you could kind of shoot video to digital cameras and dslrs and then it became so much easier to shoot stuff that looked really good uh without spending a bunch of money and there definitely was just a lot more noise and people who you know had good things to say or stories to say weren't able to make them but there's also like just a lot more chunky noise in that stuff and so i think it's just gonna be the same where it's like yes there will be an enabling of people to make things that they would have been able to make before probably more a lot more genre stuff that just would have been impossible or cost prohibitive to do but there's also going to be just so much more yeah also as i mean i'm no content creator you know or at least not like a tiktok type content creator but as i was making more and more videos i was you first you get over the initial hump of how amazing this is right because you make a few you're like oh my god that turned out great or like oh this and that right and we went through that phase for a few days i think and then you realize wait a minute what am i actually trying to do here like because people are liking my videos the stuff that i post so how can i get a consistent stream of likes and in order to do that what is my narrative what is my story what is my brand and it's it's the same type of things you have to define yourself on youtube or tiktok or whatnot yeah it's the same yeah we were talking about this in past episodes where it's like it's still going to come down to like building up a brand building up a you know core identity building up an audience around your stuff the same yeah the same techniques and strategy is if you're we're doing it now you know in person um i still think you know i still think even with this mr beast post of like when ai videos are just as good as normal videos i wonder what that would do to youtube and how will impact the millions of creators currently making content for a living scary times i still think the i think if you're going the faceless channel route and you're just like behind the scenes kind of person who's like making videos that don't have an identity i think they're you know they're a thread of like sure ai can just spit that out a lot faster and cheaper but i think if you know you're mr beast or you're mkbhd or you're casey neistat or any of the creators yeah that have, you know, your face in front of it and have people have can identify with you.

17:24I think that's still going to be the moat in the future to stand out and have uniqueness because it's like, oh, you are an actual person that people like know exists and can see and identify with whether with however you make the videos. And that could also maybe be hybrid of like a person who is also a creator, like a human who like talks about all the AI videos they create. So maybe that's also a hybrid, too, where there's a handful of them on X where they are AI creators, but they also are a persona on X that talks about their process and making AI stuff. But I still think ultimately it's going to be a person.

18:01In that same train of thought, though, then Sora as it exists today is kind of useless. Because to get to any level of creativity beyond the initial amazement, you don't have enough controls. And some of the things kind of fall apart very easily. I think it's good for rapid iteration. And, you know, I think it's good for memes and jokes. And I think if you're a brand, I think it'd probably be good for marketing, you know, where you could just spin up videos really fast. Maybe not specifically your product, but like if you could spin up videos really fast and just capitalize on jokes and then just keep and just move on.

18:36Like the rate of how fast you can make things is means that you should just be rapidly iterating and publishing and just moving on. There was I forgot one of the ex creators that post a lot and does like a lot of branded content. You know, they were saying it's like the kind of like the shooting and the editing roles are basically automated in two seconds with Sora. the need is going to be for directors and writers, like people that can write the concepts, create the concepts, the jokes, the punchlines, and then the director that can write the script and visually direct what Sora should do, and then everything else Sora handles.

19:11I can kind of see that for some use cases, like more in the marketing use cases or more in the brand use cases where you want to be part of the online conversation. I still think that's a big leap for longer storytelling, episodic storytelling, like that kind of stuff. I hear you on that. I hear you on needing directors and writers when you have sort of the production side of things automated and ready to go. But then some people are trying to do the entire thing, right? They're trying to make the whole sausage with AI. Obviously, the wrong approach, but it's being done. So Variety has an article here.

19:44There's a movie that was completely made by a quote-unquote AI agent, and it's called The Sweet Idleness. And we're going to show you the trailer here. I mean, judge for yourself. to me this is not something i would spend any of my time watching just not yet it's just it feels very ai sloppy but again this is no matter how much you kind of calibrate yourself back to needing a human i feel like there is always an outlier group that are just going to try to automate the entire thing yeah well i i don't think this is a counterpoint to what i'm saying what i'm saying with the automating the like the human in the loop is the writer and director the use case i'm talking about is like purely short form vertical content web-based you know trying to just make something kind of funny and viral and you're doing it in like a day and then it publishes and maybe gets a couple days of attention or laughs and then you move on to the next thing and you're like churning out jokes every day yeah i think for horizontal videos they're longer form it's still what am i even watching now what is this is an ad or yeah i went into an ad the The trailer's only in like 10 seconds.

20:53What the hell is it? What kind of ad is this for Kling AI? Of a baby's face being squished? What the hell was that? What ad is that, Kling? Isn't that ironic that Kling is paying for advertising on Variety? Yeah. Well, I'm guessing this is an ad network. They don't know what's going on. Yeah, that's what I'm guessing. Like Google AdSense or whatever. Yeah, longer form videos. Yeah, I think that's still. We're looking at AI as a tool with a team of human creative people that need to shape this and make it actually interesting and watchable and usable. Yeah, jury is out. I mean, you know, Joey, some days I feel so optimistic about AI augmenting VFX and kind of helping Hollywood.

21:37And then some days I'm so pessimistic about the whole thing. I'm like, oh, this is just not going to end well. So I don't know. I think this is one part of a combo of just the way things were shifting anyways, where it's like, it's just not going to be the same level of production 10, 20 years ago, period. But that's not like it's specifically an AI thing. That's also just like a way of like how viewing habits have changed between whether it's YouTube or TikTok or, you know, short form video and a whole variety of reasons and viewing habits. That's way outside of like anything to do with AI. Absolutely.

22:11Okay. Speaking of big budget creators using AI. Perhaps the biggest budget creator. So, supposedly, Taylor Swift uses some AI-generated videos to promote horror new album. This one, I mean, look, actually, it looks pretty sharp. It's like a, looks like a speakeasy kind of bar. Dude, that is so VO3. It's just the shallow depth of field gives it away, you know? Like, natural lenses aren't that soft. The fall-off is not that crazy. Yeah. It looks all right. the one you said i didn't and this was definitely from a taylor swift thing this was someone like i think someone ripped this video that's a taylor swift album promo yeah yeah so if you i think there was a youtube link for this and the youtube link is gone so now it's just on x living on x so this was initially posted yeah i believe so i believe by like on taylor swift's official channels and yeah this is just sort of like some random shots in a garden yeah it's it's not maybe Maybe one of the older video generation tools.

23:10To me, it feels like VO3 or Kling 2.5 or some of the newer ones. The quality is there, but it still is soft. It still is a little too generic and lacks particular style. And it has audio as well. So I'm guessing it's VO3. There was a backlash. Correct. Yeah, so the backlash is around the fact that she's such a successful artist with billions of dollars. why not hire real people to do her promos right why are you skimping on budget when you have so much money i think that's primarily where the backlash comes from there's a biggest and she's also all about sort of protecting artists uh rights and copyright and she's been a big advocate for you know protecting the artist's ip yeah and the stuff we showed like none of it was really that complicated like you it all looked like you could relatively you know hire a blender artist and make this in a few days.

24:06Yeah, some kid right out of college will knock this out of the park, you know, yeah, in Blender or in Unreal. So yeah, it's like, why use AI for this? Because I was trying to think, okay, on the flip side, where would it make sense to use AI? And I think going back to what we're talking about before, something where you're trying to do like tons of ideas at scale, personalized, something personalized, like even going back to the store and Cambio stuff. Yeah, something which is trying to do like a bunch of ideas at scale super fast. AI would kind of fit that. If it's part of some, I don't even know, narrative, some bigger point or story or marketing push.

24:41These one-off videos don't make a lot of sense, especially when you have the promotion budget that Taylor Swift's going to have. One of our creative directors was running VO3 on their laptop, showed it to Taylor. She's like, I love it. Put it out there. I was like, are you sure? Yeah, yeah, put it out there. And it was just rapid. That, or she didn't even know, and it was like subcontractor to subcontractor. And it's like, we need to make these videos. And someone made the videos. And then it was like, okay, yep, videos look good. And it wasn't like anyone checked on how they were actually made.

25:13The thing that I'm seeing a lot, like a recurring theme, seems to be that with most productions, as you know, you're up against the clock. You have two days to put out this thing. The album's coming out next week or whatnot. And you don't have enough time to hire somebody, make the thing render it cut it so this is where they're taking a shortcut yeah if they were up against a tight deadline to get something out sort of i mean i still i mean none of these were that complicated and so like i'm thinking like because look on the ai flip side the the environments and the scenes were pretty consistent so like it's not like oh you press the button and it's done like it does take a lot of work and trial and error to prompt and get the image and then create all of your angles and have the same consistent space.

25:56So that takes work. And so it, but it seems like it would have probably taken roughly about the same amount of work, assuming you're not starting from scratch for the 3D model stuff and you could use some pre-built models. The first example that you showed with a vintage bar, like that's Bryn's bar at Moon Valley, right? Like you can just take a camera, an iPhone down there and just do that in 10 minutes. Like that's a very simple one shot take. I mean, this has a, you know, actor hand and stuff, but yeah, none of this was like that complicated that it would. Yeah. To make this an AI would roughly take the same time as doing it for real.

26:33Yeah, especially now with, you know, the Nikon cameras and the FX3s, like you have access to such high level cameras for so cheap. Like there's no excuse to not just go out there and shoot this thing. Now, I'm also thinking on the flip side. What if she was like, yeah, it's AI. We're going full in. it would take someone like that to just kind of if she was just like yeah we're just doing ai some big artists like that that would also that would be a huge like pivotal moment for ai adoption where it's just like oh well taylor swift is doing it and putting it out and her fans don't care that that it's ai that would be a big like floodgate opening of other people feeling like oh all right i guess guess we're doing all our music videos ai now like because it's cool yeah so there is already a group of her fans called swifties against ai like there's already a coalition forming around sort of banning this stuff are they making sore videos uh protesting against i'm not a big taylor swift fan but there's there's millions and millions of them and uh yeah you don't want to go against that wave of people that are so passionate about her music and her the world that she's essentially created yeah well it didn't really seem to have any effect on the uh box office because her release film which was released in theaters was the number one film in theaters by far yeah yeah on the one that's on disney plus now yeah no no not the concert film no they released no they released there was like a i don't even know what it was like a music videos from the new album that was released with some behind the scenes stuff cut together into like a 90 minute bundle that was released in theaters theatrically released and it made like 30 million dollars in the box office wow yeah i know when uh like target has exclusive rights to her physical copy of her album and uh like the day that it drops target's gonna see like prime day level activity on their oh yeah yeah wasn't that the thing they had the book and people are going crazy over the book yeah yep yeah the singer is the official release party of a showgirl was the name of the film came at a number one i gotcha at the north american box office this weekend with 33 million dollars that's number uh number two was one battle after another and then number three was the fashion machine just i mean like an artist of global scale like a bad bunny or a taylor swift like it's it's so cool to still see that because it's such a like a relic uh of the era that we grew up in right like a superstar and you know just all the big artists like rolling stones or whatnot i mean there's just too far and few in between them britney spears nsync backstreet boys yeah yeah right it's kind of the last one of the last room i heard beyonce and uh and other bands yeah pray to god uh tally norwood doesn't get this oasis you need to bring back a band from the 90s to i think oasis is back right they are back yeah yeah yeah i know i know they're back because my wife is very excited about this.

29:34The concert. Yes. But yeah, I mean, they showed up again and were filling stadiums. But yeah, you had to bring a band back from the 90s or early 1000s to do that. I'll just like do one little sort of, I know I hate to do these, but I love doing these. It's like, we didn't know how good we had it growing up in the 90s and the 2000s, because we just thought things were just going to get better and better and better. Right. Right. It's like, oh yeah, concerts. These are going to be around for a while. movies movies are gonna be around forever and yeah we just didn't know at the time and we didn't appreciate them as much as we needed to we didn't know that carson daly was like the peak of pop culture civilization yeah he's a news anchor now like a proper news anchor no man he's got he's the host of shit what's the show called yeah so i'm in like a suit what was the mtv show called total request live trl trl total request live god yeah see it's sad I even forgot that.

30:30I used to watch that after school all the other day. It was live. That was a big deal. The fact that it was live. Yeah, it was also a big deal when MTV played stuff besides ridiculousness episodes. Yep. Okay, last one. We talked a while ago, you know, the Johnny Ive jumping over to OpenAI and they're working on a device, some AI device. We didn't quite know what that was. And there are a lot of guesses. So there is a new article in Financial Times that has some more info with on the device. Multiple people familiar with the plans at OpenAI and Ive were working on a device roughly the size of a smartphone that users would communicate with through a camera, microphone, and speaker.

31:07One person suggested it might have multiple cameras. The gadget is designed to sit on a desk or table but can also be carried around by the user. Interesting. So I'm picturing like a puck that you put in your pocket, then you put it on the table when you're at a meeting, put it back in your pocket. I guess. I mean, right. I'm surprised it's kind of a smartphone-sized device because I didn't really think this could work if it's anything but way smaller than a smartphone. I don't think what they're building could replace a smartphone, at least anytime soon. So I think it was something more wearable.

31:46This doesn't sound wearable. Yeah, and it sounds like a privacy nightmare on top of that with just multiple cameras and mics and just going off 24-7. Because the other thing, too, it says one person said the device would be always on rather than triggered by a word or prompt. So the device's sensors would gather data throughout the day that would help build its virtual assistant memory. I mean, yeah, it sounds like I don't know if you've seen the recent post on Friend, that necklace device that is the AI device that's also like always on. The use case is a bit confusing slash weird where it's like your AI friend that sends you like text updates of like, hey, how's it going?

32:21But that thing's also always listening to everything that's happening to you throughout the day. And I don't think a lot of people like that. No, I don't. That's going to be a big pushback. Also, it's just a big training day to play for OpenAI, right? They just want to grab all the image video, everything. That is a very good point. Right. Hey, we'll just turn you. I mean, with that point, they should just give us away for free. like they probably it's like the hb printer thing right like the printers are 99 but then the ink is like 300 or it's just like the real world version of facebook and the facebook ad feed where it's like yeah here facebook it's free all of our products are free google it's all free because you are the product we want your data to turn you into the product exactly so this might be the real world example the real world product of that i mean it just kind of like if you look at what is happening now with law enforcement and ring cameras, because everybody pretty much has a doorbell camera in front of their houses, apartments, and criminal activity is more or less recorded all the time because there's just cameras blanking everywhere.

33:33And I think Amazon in the past has had given access to all of that footage to law enforcement. So whether you like it or not, the camera that's on your door is going to be used for law enforcement. Yeah, same with Waymo. I mean, there's an interview. I mean, all these companies, it's like they record, the data goes to their server, so they have control of it. And then if law enforcement issues a subpoena for that data, they have to lawfully comply. I mean, I've heard in interviews, this was specifically about Waymo, because obviously Waymos are like a car driving with like a million cameras around it.

34:08So it captures all sorts of random stuff. and i think yeah as the ceo of wainbo i remember they said something like yeah they get requests all the time but like they also push back if the requests are too broad like if they're asking for like tons of data and like footage so like they do push back to narrow their scope of what they're asking for but obviously that's up to every company but yeah you should assume yeah any camera can be subpoenaed if like there's for sure i mean yeah it's such a slippery slope with you know just having eyes and ears everywhere you know a device like this is just going to give people that aches this was a similar thing specifically with like open ai and the other chat interfaces like a few like a month or two ago there was another article too where it's like the the records they're not protected and people that you know treat them as a therapist or like the actual therapists have there's more privilege there with like what they are and aren't allowed to say but the the the chat records they're saved and they can be like similar to your google search history they can be um subpoenaed as well like if there's you know reason to okay the last thing i'll say about this is uh my god the compute costs for something like this yeah i was i was i was going to highlight this and actually that's one of the issues because apparently the part of the story is like they have more information about the device maybe but then also that they're having tech issues with making it and it might be delayed uh to try to hit their goal of next year just be an app.

35:31The app is great. Just be an app on an iPhone. Well, I think that's the same issue because I think they want it to run locally. These include deciding on the assistant's personality, privacy issues, and budgeting for the computing power needed to run OpenAI as models on a mass consumer device. Computer is another huge factor for the delay, said one person close to IVE. Amazon has the compute for an Alexa, so does Google. But OpenAI is struggling to get enough compute for ChatGPT, let alone an AI device. They need to fix that. end quote yeah i uh i don't i mean it's high look johnny i've been he's been winning ever since he joined apple right like i don't think he ever released a product that was less than stellar having said that this is such an uphill battle for him and you know it's just like i don't i don't see anything like this succeeding in the near future maybe yeah i mean also we're getting bits and pieces of what the vision for this is yeah i don't i i don't know i mean i think to what you're saying, like an app kind of like sort of does make more sense.

36:28And yeah, we've been seeing Apple lay the groundwork for having that compute on device, so that stuff can just run locally. Because with stuff like this, it's like if you have to wait for something to go up to the cloud and process and come back, right, that delay is just a killer. And I think we talked about this also with the meta Ray-Bans that just came out. It's like, the problem is not that the device is not great. It's actually fantastic, right? From the initial reviews and, you know, just you and I's experience with it. The problem is, do people want to wear glasses? Or do people want to carry around another hardware device?

37:05Like that is the problem at its core. So they're going to run up against like, hey, I already have a smartphone in my pocket. Do I want to put this puck with a million cameras in my other pocket too? Yeah, I think that's, yeah, that's why I was expecting, I mean, there's a limited amount of things people will wear, you know, Apple's done a good job also like owning the wrist you know we've seen rings with some success yeah other you know you have two arms most you know a lot of people so like um you could something on your other wrist but like whoop and yeah those other companies have taken over on other wrists so yeah those seem to be the most logical places to if you're doing something wearable and you know unless you get like cargo pants and you want to have a phone and then another ai device that seems like a big um joe i just picked just putting this puck in the desert and it just fries up in like 10 seconds tell me where the road is where are the hills where are the hills find it i'm sorry you're absolutely right i can't tell you that i'm sorry you're absolutely right it's claude not open ai yeah i mean look i we're getting bits and pieces i wouldn't like write johnny ivoff obviously but um i'm still very i'm still perplexed by this because like to build a hardware thing that it's like why and what's it gonna do that that my phone or is gonna be way better than than anything else or like drastically change how i interface i interact with technology and computers i agree with you since we're on the the subject of iphone and stuff i didn't mention because i texted you this but we talked about the iphone release and the apple airpod 3 and the feature with that was like that it could do the live speech translation.

38:45There was like a, I don't know if you got the update yet either, but I got like a surprise update because I have AirPods 2 and then it, my something updated and then it said, oh, hey, you could do live translation with the AirPods 2. So yeah, I have the same generation. No, I didn't get the update and I was hella jealous when you got it. Did you update your iOS to the new one? Let me check. What version are you on now? Did your time on your phone change to like really big numbers? no i'm on 18.6 is it out maybe 19 now wait my ios is 26 what do you want 19 whoa what your ios is on 26 there's no way you're on ios 19 i'm on 18.6.2 if you go to settings general about yeah ios version yeah dude wait you're on ios 18 holy shit this is not good Joey I'm on the air you're gonna embarrass me like this

39:41this is terrible I texted it to you check your text I gotta post the video that I made on store of you being arrested for for mislabeling for mislabeling AI models so now that's that's good viral content right there boy how is this possible how are you how is you're on an iPhone you're on a newer iPhone than me How did they even let you install that? I'm so confused. Oh, my God. This is not good. And I have automatic updates on. That doesn't make sense. Well, go to your updates and see what it tells you. Go to software updating. Upgrade to iOS 20. Did they go from, like, 19 to 26? Did they skip a bunch of?