We break down everything announced at Unreal Fest

0:00In this episode of The Noise, we're going to break down all the new things announced at Unrealfest. 28 years later shooting with iPhones. And Natasha Lyonne hits back at the AI critics. Let's get into it.

0:14All right. What's up, Addy? Back in the room. We're back in the studio, man. Good to be here. Yeah, we're catching up on the AI on the lot interviews. But the crazy thing, I know I told you about this, and this is my icebreaker for guests, but weirdest, bizarrest thing, when we were recording the microphones that I rented, the nice Shure SM7B, I'm like, yeah, let's make these nice, high quality. they were picking up a chinese radio station not nice and i don't understand how or why that happened so if anyone you're we have a smart audience if any sound engineers because i'm not a sound engineer know how this was possible to pick up interference with my with stuff that is supposed to be protected from that i would be very curious yeah i'm wondering if those mics had built-in rf receivers because they could be wireless or wired it was this is a whole wired setup i will say we did try someone else had a shotgun mic because i'm like let's you know figure out like is it the mics is it because it's both microphones and two separate cameras and we tried a shotgun and it also had the same issue so i don't know if it was just that spot was just cursed no because uh radio frequency is uh or you know over terrestrial radio is typically in the megahertz which is way beyond audible range so the only way to decipher that is with uh receive rf receivers if they're built in or you guys were just hearing stuff i don't know maybe it wasn't even there some underground radio station broadcast but adobe podcast which i don't normally use their audio filter save the day because it was still too much for um resolves cleanup to do but uh adobe podcast do you think they'd used ai for the cleanup yeah i think yeah i can get trained on yeah i'm not good 90 sure that is a ai save some version of a model to to modify your voice and remove background noise but yeah it worked so glad that worked out okay unreal fest unreal fest a big deal yeah so tell me what we got break break it down for a lot of updates so for those of you who are not familiar with unreal fest uh if you know unreal engine if you know fortnite if you know tim sweeney and the apple lawsuit right like the epicenter of all of that is they hold a big yearly festival for their creators for their developers and it takes place at different places around the country actually now I think they have smaller versions of them all over the world.

2:19Okay. Okay. I was lucky enough to go to the very first one in North Carolina in 2019. And then the pandemic happened. They paused it for a couple of years and then they picked up again in New Orleans, I think in 22, which was so much fun. And they did it in New Orleans for two years. And then last year it was in Seattle. And then now it's in Orlando this year. Right after I leave Florida, go to Orlando. Yeah. We haven't talked about the Apple decision, but that was a huge, the quick recap, like Epic suit Apple over their fees in the marketplace. And they've been off of Apple devices for a few years while this lawsuit went on and they won pretty much.

2:56David versus Goliath and kudos to Tim Sweeney for, you know, putting up the incredible amount of money needs to lawyer up and follow through. Resources to fight Apple and cost a fortune, but yeah, they. Yeah. And I bet Apple, that was part of the strategy is like, who's going to counter us? We're so massive. This is our own ecosystem who's big enough strong enough to really yeah dissuade us and i think tim went up and fought and won yeah so i think there was a 30 percent uh fee that goes out to apple for any in app purchase transactions on the platform when you right log in with an app and you pay it has to go through apple's payment they would forbid you from directing people to go use a third party like your own payment processor yeah yeah they fought that and so we're already seeing that in app updates where now they, like Netflix or something, they'll tell you, like, oh, you can sign up.

3:44You could either use Apple Pay or you can go to our website and just put your credit card information in and sign up. And what Tim made so clear was like, you know, iOS is typically a big major platform for mobile game developers, let's say, right? Like majority of their sales will come from iOS. And then a 30 % is the difference between profitability and shutting the company down. Especially for smaller game developers. Right. It's a big win for them. Yeah, so it's almost like an unconstitutional charge in that sense. You're surviving just to pay that fee to Apple. I'm not putting it as elegantly.

4:17Or that fee is coming out for the consumers, because they have to bake that extra cost into the charges so they can keep the lights on. I'm sure it's a split between most. Consumer will probably pay a little bit, and then developers will suck up the rest of that incredible charge. But look, that's over and done with. What is interesting is, if those of you who know Roblox, roblox and fortnite are the two main visions of the metaverse and each of them have their own sort of flavor to it their own philosophy behind it so unreal fest is really an encapsulation of where tim thinks the metaverse is going and their investments into that direction isn't real fest more focused on fortnite and more the consumer facing side or is it more focused on unreal engine and the developer side?

5:06Yeah, a little bit of both. So when I was attending a couple of years ago, virtual production was in its infancy. It was huge. So there's a big push on getting photorealistic results out of Unreal and display and all the advancements they've made, SMPTE 2110, all those things. I've gone through some of them. Some great talks and recordings. For the most part, I think Unreal has matured enough as a VP tool where even if they didn't develop on it enough, it's still very capable for at least the next few years. So I think the VP side of it has cooled down. Having said that, they have an enormous resource of developers, researchers.

5:46Epic is a very sharp company. They can make really cutting-edge products. So what are they working on? First and foremost, I think, is revenue for them. So Fortnite is their number one revenue generator. And one of the things they're going up against with Roblox on is user-generated games. So for the ability... Now, previously, the big Fortnite season releases are made by a production, I think they're called Llama production, within Epic. Okay. Oh, you know, because that came up with the Darth Vader lawsuit. That's it. Or a season to solicit. I want to clarify, I don't think it was actually a lawsuit.

6:22Yeah, so it's like an independent game studio within Epic that's making Fortnite. Having said that, they do realize the true value in the metaverse is for anybody to be able to create any game and then have other people play it. Right, and that was a big thing of Roblox's model, right? Roblox does that incredibly well. Roblox is super built of just build your own little sandbox, build your own game, and charge. People make money off Roblox, right? Like it's a - Really solid money. Like the top 100 creators of Roblox are multi-millionaire. Like they make multiples of million a year. How do they charge?

6:54Or what do you charge for on Roblox? You can buy digital assets like clothing. You can buy, you know, limited relief. stuff because i know that's a big fortnight thing as well like isn't isn't something like a billion dollars is spent a year on digital i'll just i have a key insight into this so i would you know now that i work at stability i had an interview with roblox and the manager that interviewed me said just our avatar side of the business is one billion a year not the rest of it just like the avatar just the clothing yeah so avatar when roblox says avatar that's the same as you know uh digital humans and unreal speak so like selling hats clothes fingernails i don't know whatever they have it's so much money that's wild oh here's another fun fact a little bit of sideway uh the uh airpods business for apple just the airpods is bigger than epic it's bigger than epic yeah it's like multiple billions i knew it was big enough to be its own like company but I didn't realize it's bigger than Epic.

7:55So just put things to scale. You know when they do a planetary scale thing, this is where things lie. All right, so going back to Epic, one of the big investments that they made five years ago was a technology called MetaHuman. At that time, if you were to build a digital human, it's very much bespoke. You'd have to scan somebody and then that scan would have to get cleaned up. You have to rig it. You have to add muscle sim. You have to add hair sim. And it's just, by the time you're said and done, you're looking at like$200 ,000 rig and then that's going to be put into a video game and only on screen for like five minutes of an in-cut scene and that's it, right?

8:31So Unreal found a key market here. It's like, why don't we just make digital humans simpler, cheaper, and that will proliferate Unreal Engine. And that will also have the side effect of building digital humans into the metaverse much easier. So this was an early investment. They acquired a company called 3Lateral out of, I'm going to say Croatia, who had the rigging technology. And the only reason I know this is because we paid for that license at Verizon, which was incredibly expensive. And then it was free overnight when MetaHuman got acquired. Like, damn it. So this year is a big MetaHuman year at Unreal Fest.

9:10So one of the big pains was creating the MetaHuman itself. Unreal had like a cloud-based instance. Yeah, it was like a web portal. It was kind of slow and clunky. It was kind of fun to use. It was very consumer friendly. But it always struck me as pretty limited options. Pretty limited options. And also metahumans are very heavy. They're in the gigabytes. So downloading that from the cloud into engine. You have to build it and then load Unreal and then download sync your metahuman character into your project. So if you're designing like 50 metahumans, you're looking at 50 hours, right? Something like that.

9:43So now this is built directly into engine. So now you can just build the characters in Unreal. Yeah. Okay. And on top of that, the character customization is a lot easier. So body shapes is one of the things that was limited to like a palette of a few. Now they have something called parametric permutations. So, you know, if you're looking at specific segments of your arm, you know, proportions of your torso to your leg and all those things, like you could dial up millions of permutations. And then on top of that, this is the one that I think is really one-to-one with Roblox avatars is updated outfit and clothing system.

10:17So in the past, I think it just came with a sweatshirt, a t-shirt, and a collared shirt for men. Now you could do all types of stuff. You can combine things. And there is a big economy, creator economy of clothing that's on the fab marketplace, which also ties into this. So Epic has really, they've really kind of converged in the same path as Roblox in the sense that there is a big focus on avatars or digital humans and customizing them. But the big difference to me, and this is the one that's really exciting, is quality. I was going to say, it's funny comparing MetaHumans to Roblox because Roblox is like the most 8-bit looking designs and MetaHumans are the most realistic looking virtual character people.

11:03Yeah, and there's a reason for that. It's the CEO's vision. So Dave Bazzucchi, who's the CEO of Roblox, he's very egalitarian. He believes that Roblox should run on any device. So it has to run on your Android phone or your iPhone. And you can't run a MetaHuman-level rig on an iPhone. So you have to kind of go to the lowest common denominator, which is their R16, which is 16 blocks. That's what... So what's the vision of MetaHuman? because I don't really know it through the lens of virtual filmmaking. So like creating a super high realistic character for creating a film. But was it intended to also be like a playable character in a video game that looks extremely realistic?

11:43I think both. And it is becoming very clear the fact that they're investing in MetaHuman at this time in Epic's chapter. It's certainly more of a game asset than it is a film asset. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. So which ties me into their secondary release, right? UEFN, Unreal Engine Fortnite, is a special flavor of the engine that you use to build Fortnite games. It's the equivalent of Roblox Studio. Okay. Is it still as technical as Unreal, or is it more user-friendly? It's still very much technical. As a matter of fact, I would argue it's more technical. They have a scripting language built into it called Verse.

12:22So game logic and a lot of the game programming has to be coded in Verse. Oh, okay. Of course, Unreal Engine proper does have Python integration and coding, and you could take the blueprints and C++ it. But UEFN relies heavily on game developers. I don't think you can make a game unless you've built other games before. Whereas in Roblox Studio, there are 15-year-olds that are making games and pushing them out. Right, the idea of Roblox was a very easy-to-use, build your own game world in our game. But to Epic's defense, the Roblox mechanics and the technical complexity is less. You can certainly make a AAA level game with Unreal Engine and people have done that.

13:12So having that level of power and control into UEFN is incredible. So a couple of the things they introduced, they introduced what they call Epic Developer Assistant, AI Assistant, to help you write that code for Verse, their scripting language and then quick documentation and support stuff. We've seen a similar assistant deployment with Disguise. Yeah, I think a lot of software companies are realizing why should somebody have to go outside of the package, Google an answer or Reddit an answer and then come back into the package. We should just build that stuff in. Yeah, for sure. That's what I'm doing anyways.

13:49Actually, I think I have tried to answer Unreal questions through perplexity or chat to be or I'm like, help me. And it's pretty good. Send a screenshot. Yeah, it's good. I mean, also I'm a novice. So I'm like, please tell me what to do. But it does a pretty good job. But yeah, having it built in is a... So my guess is they're probably licensing a third party LLM and then just exposing the API. Yeah, it's probably going to be to your cloud. I hope it's one of those two because both of those are really good. Yeah. And then a couple of other big things. They have something called SceneGraph Beta, which is a visual organizer for all of the assets in your game.

14:20This is really important. when your game gets up to like 10 ,000 assets in a single level. How do you know if that tree is just like a sub-level of the main tree or a variant of this tree? And so SceneGraph beta is a quick way to organize and like cut down on waste, if you will. And on top of that, it integrates directly into Verse. So then your SceneGraph and your code, your script could be one-to-one, which is really nice. These are just tools to make the level of complexity for a developer go down so i think as it goes down over time somebody like you and me can come in with no code and build in fortnite game right it seems like that's definitely the direction where it's like yes yeah more people to build the games also that if you're trying to build a metaverse of games you want it to be easier yeah as possible with something like for um unreal and fortnite there definitely is more of a options of complexity yeah than you could do with roblox so like finding that sweet spot of yeah keeping the complexity like the options if you want it but easy enough where you don't have to know c++ or vers to build it the the two companies it's really interesting they're coming at it from two different angles but converging in the same goal which is like a metaverse for all that's visually breathtaking stunning photoreal indiscernible from reality right it's like the matrix right so well like they're getting there both from two ends so right but will they ever converge too because it's like that's the argument in the book that you have right here where yeah what does matthew ball say about that i mean i remember in the book it was you know it's like the issue is i mean for there to truly be a metaverse like the everything has to come together it's like it's got to be the same like the internet it's like it has to be like that right it's like basically two separate internets right now that they're building so how you know if they get big enough will they eventually like create a communication language where you could interact with the two my guess is it'll be a third party uh somebody big like google apple somebody like that who has the underlying infrastructure to accommodate a roblox system and an epic system and then that'll be the glue that ties the two systems together that's just my we're not there i think we're 10 years out from that point but what i was meant to say was you know roblox is coming at it look they already have incredible scale right there's something like close to a billion users on roblox way more than fortnite and i think millions of user generated games people making billions of annually.

16:42And then Unreal's coming at it from, there's only one main game, Fortnite, and a handful of user-generated games, but that quality is incredible. Physics is accurate. You have famous IP on it, like Star Wars and Airbender and stuff like that. So they're coming at it from the quality end. Disney bought a stake in Fortnite, which is right. I think both, they both equally have certain things that are working for them but uh it's yet to be proven which methodology is correct yeah it's made me think to me because also like a lot of games are built on unreal engine and then they get a cut for using unreal engine but like roblox doesn't really have like roblox is roblox there's no one building nobody's using roblox engine to build a third party party game that has nothing to know they're not interested in that yeah yeah so speaking of unreal engine yeah 5.6.

17:32What is the new update in Unreal Engine? Lots of updates around really making your game better. One of the things that is like a holy grail in Unreal and really in Unity or any real-time renderer is getting to 60 FPS. In order for you to get that high of a refresh rate, and these refresh rates are not only critical for game developers, but also AR, VR. If you're talking about somebody that's building for Apple Vision Pro, they need that stuff to run at 60 or 90. So they made some improvements to hardware-based ray tracing, to Lumen and all those things that are incredibly computer inefficient, much more efficient.

18:11And then they introduced something called Motion Trails, which is an animation tool. So right now, if you animate anything, let's say in Maya, in Blender, in Unreal, you're looking at splines and graphs, but you're not actually seeing the animation on top of your character. So Motion Trails is something where if the leg is moving and they have a nice demo, you could see the arc of the leg moving and then adjust each of the splines and do it very visually. So for a non-animator to animate... So it's not just the graph, you can actually see it in the world. Yeah, like at DreamWorks, if you talk to animators, they started off animating with spreadsheets.

18:48It was just numbers. Then they moved to splines. And it's like, you know that scene in The Matrix where somebody's like, oh, you just see green code, but I see a lady in a red dress. so animators can see the animation from the spine that's how incredibly talented they are but for the normal person like you and me when we try to animate we're like wait x in bone six y in bone six right it's very clunky so this is just a way to make animation way easier on the animation side there's also uh something called sculpt morph targets morph targets are sometimes called blend shapes are you familiar with that sort of heard of blend shapes but no whatever blend shape yeah Yeah, so there are two ways to move a character.

19:28One is through bones. So the bones will influence how you move. Like, for example, my arms, it's got bones in it. But then when you start to fill up something like a face with a lot of bones, it starts to get very heavy and computationally expensive. So one of the ways around it is to just deform the geometry. So if I go from a normal face to a smile, all of the vertices that are affected around my lip, that's all I have to change, right? So it's regional, it's very computationally efficient. It's just been hard in the past to get Blend Shapes out of Maya into Unreal onto a target, onto a character.

20:05So now they have Morph Target sculpting built into Engine. So now you can start to do secondary deformation. So when an arm moves, does this muscle go up? All those intricate things that really give you the highest quality animation. I think I remember why I heard of it. Or Blend Shapes, it's another way to rig or animate characters. it is uh or it complements your rig for like facial features totally i think because when i was running on the project we're using wonder dynamics and to import your own character the requirements were for facial tracking was it had to be built or it had to be rigged with blend shapes for it to track properly correct so if you're using any kind of ios device there's a standard blend shape list i think it's about 50 blend shapes for your face that you have to sculpt This thing is for this point.

20:50Left eye, right eye, smile, frown. So when it's looking at ARKit or something, it knows where to match it to the rig. The team that built ARKit Facial Capture, Apple acquired a company called Prime Sense, who developed on it a few years prior. So that technology transferred over, and now it's sort of universal that if you want to animate a face, you need 50 blend shapes. Okay. Yeah. And just to nerd out a little bit, But that stuff comes from the 1970s research called FACTS, Facial Action Coding System. So like the government or somebody related to the government did all this research already.

21:27You brought this up before. Yeah. Well, yeah. It's like the expressions, the different emotions. Yeah. And it also comes up now with the AI. Right. To train. To train facial data. Like Laura is trained on emotions. And that was when this came up. Yeah. Yeah. The character Laura one. The character Laura. Yeah. They're like, we're using facts. I'm like, I know that thing. Well, that's cool. Did anything catch your eye that relates to actual film production, virtual production? Absolutely. So look, it's no secret that every time Epic rolls out a new release, they kind of chomp and bite into other software territory.

22:01They've bit off big time into Maya territory with morph target sculpting, really intuitive animation tools. And now they're building something that will essentially kill Motion Builder, which is the de facto motion capture software for two decades or more. Autodesk makes it. So basically you can go from your motion capture system like an X-Sense into Motion Builder which does the retargeting which means it just casts that motion onto a character. You go from actor to character. So like performance capture like a real motion tracking suit or something. Yeah, and Motion Builder is really good at preserving the original actor's intent to this character who may not It may be like a gorilla, not an actor.

22:45So how does all those movements look? There's a lot of math that goes under the hood to make that amazing. And then that goes out to Unreal. So now Unreal 5.6 has something called Capture Manager. It's essentially replacing Motion Builder. So your Vicon data, your XSense data can come directly into Unreal. Unreal will retarget multiple people at the same time. and then you can capture your in-game cut scenes. You can do feature film previs. You can do - Can that pair with the virtual camera too? Absolutely. That would be cool. Yeah, because if you had the virtual camera on an iPad with your actors and motion capture suits, I'm assuming one with the take recorder, just capture the whole thing.

23:315.4 and 5.5 made big improvements with V-Camp. Yeah. So they didn't cover in 5.6, but 5.6 has the other improvements. If you combine it all, 5.6 is certainly a feature film tool, a AAA game tool. Like it's got all of that. Wow. And it's free. Yeah, that is still. Yes, it is. Well, yeah. I think it's like under$2 ,000 a month. I thought if your studio is under a million, that's right. It's still free. Yeah. Yeah. Students, all of that. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. So shout out to everybody at Unreal Fest And a quick shout out to my friend Frederick Nielsen, who's on the animation team. So I know a lot of the stuff that I put out here, he probably had a personal hand in making happen.

24:14That's cool. It's not on our notes, but I also think that there were some more features rolled out into the Mac version. Because there was another issue I had too when I was dabbling with Unreal. And then you look at, like, especially with MetaHuman and the facial capture with the pairing it with the app. It only worked on the PC version. And a lot of, like, I realized, I'm like, for this stuff, like, really, PCs, you need a PC. even though there is a Mac version. But I think there were some more features that were PC-only that they did roll into the Mac. I don't remember the specifics. Yeah, essentially Unreal has three flavors of the engine.

24:44A Linux, a Mac, and a Windows one. And the Windows one gets the most love because it's probably the one that's most used and it's the highest performant. Mac versions are going to run on Mac Silicon, which is better than before, but it's no NVIDIA RTX card, right? And then the Linux version, it's really for enterprise users. So like EA, for example, if EA built a game, it would be built and run on hundreds of servers. And to deploy a data center like that, it most likely will be Linux-based. Okay, that makes sense. All right, cool. Well, yeah, good roundup of updates. Thank you. Yeah, I'm just getting serious FOMO, man, because I'm just not there.

25:22But I'll catch up with a lot of my friends who are there now. Yeah, and I'm curious to see what talks and stuff come out. I've seen some talks in the past, and they're always really interesting, and some good case studies that usually come out. Yeah, I think our friend Jim Godaltic is there. I think he's on a talk. I saw that he had a comment. It said it was a great keynote. So it must have been a really great keynote. Shout out to Matt Workman, who also, I think, was on a panel. Yeah, fan of the pod. Thanks. Also a great YouTube channel, Matt. Yeah, shout out. You're talking about it. Okay. What do you got?

25:4928 years later. We love iPhones over here. So yeah, I think we've talked about this before. 28 years later, Danny Boyle's follow-up to 28 days and weeks later is shooting entirely on iPhones with heavy-duty rigging. uh you have some of the pictures you want to show we'll show us the pictures but yeah we've seen we've talked about the pictures in the past where you see the little iphone and then you see it's mounted on uh on an anamorphic setup with anamorphic lenses and a viewfinder and a viewfinder and um yeah but still at the core it's an iphone sensor capturing this and so this picture this new picture behind the scenes photo came out at first i saw this popped up on my feed and it was just vertically cropped and i thought it was some bizarre ai generated image it was basically like a huge metal platform with like 20 iphone rigs it's like a bullet type yeah and a parabola curve all pointing at a zombie in the woods right and in the wider shot you can see that there's a full crew there i didn't see the crew in the first time so i'm like what is this and then i was like it's behind the scenes with the iphone like what zombie is this what zombie bizarro ai generated shot is this with a platter of iphones right so this was a rig that is what he danny ball called a poor man's bullet time rig totally which see that makes sense yeah so yeah they're all kind of angled and pointed at this zombie we didn't actually see what shot it produced but i'm guessing it is you could shoot at 60 frames per second and then do some crazy kind of freeze camera movements at any point as you're moving so like going way back through the matrix uh and behind the scenes shots that that was shot on videos we were obsessed with uh yeah they had to get still cameras yes and trigger them in order and sync and basically each camera was one frame yeah and so and it's 24 cameras so one frame within a 24 frame cycle yeah i think it was probably more than 24 cameras okay but it was like each camera was a frame it wasn't like back then digital wasn't really a thing but you couldn't get enough high speed film cameras and load it so that you could have the flexibility to choose the moment you wanted and control your move that's right they had to capture the move in real it was a sequential firing yeah every time fire yes now we're on iphones and they can record them and they can take this i suppose you can sync them and you could pick what yeah moment you want to start doing your bullet time effect and uh i have the 14 pro i think it does 240 yeah uh they're using the black magic app so you get more control oh yeah you could totally override the camera shooting on 15 iphone 15s and i don't know what the max is if i'm gonna guess they're probably gonna shoot at 4k even if they're gonna die well yeah but yeah you could definitely do 60 if yeah like my my only note with using look if danny boyle was to do this film six months a year from now bullet time is easily achievable with ai like you have stable virtual camera and you have similar technologies where it gives you what we call in the ai community novel view synthesis so from one image you could create we see this a lot in uh with sports replays now too they can have a few cameras and figure out where everything else is and do some cool replay effects i don't know if you would want it yeah maybe he felt that it wasn't prime time ready at the time of shooting just like trying to keep it grungy and hands-on yeah practical with some crazy my only note on iphones and i'm not a cinematographer so if anybody from asc is listening uh please correct me but because the sensor is so small you're gonna get more or as a pinpointed focal length, which means everything is in focus by default.

29:20So the reason you get bokeh and nice soft images in iPhones is it's artificially added. But if you just let the... Like if you're shooting in cinematic mode and it adds... It's all artificially added. But like the sense, like pure physics dictates that as sensor size goes to a pinpoint, everything starts to become in focus. And that's why big sensors give you more bokeh and softer images. Can you solve anything with that or trick it with lenses or attachments? That's what I saw on some of the BTS for this. There was like a proper$50 ,000 anamorphic mounted to an iPhone. But then the anamorphic still has to squeeze that giant imagery onto a tiny sensor.

30:01Yeah, it's not going to be as good. But there's some good camera shot comparisons. Strata, Michael Cioni, they've gone down the rabbit hole of like shooting. Yeah, we can show the video. but they did a for hpa they did a test shot shoot with an iphone with the fuji g whatever i forgot the name but they're like 65 it's the newer the 65 mil like ten thousand dollar nine thousand dollar okay digital cinema camera yeah that's like you know big sensor very affordable and like an alexa the x100 i think the fuji oh yeah yeah those are nice and then the alexa you know 60 000 camera yeah and it was you know it's like the alexa yes technically it looks better but what you could do with the iPhone was like still pretty good.

30:41And they had a model with like, you know, lights in the background and sure the Bokeh wasn't as good, but it was still there. And it was remarkable for, you know, the price difference between like 50 times. Yeah. It's pretty close. Look, the iPhone image processing is probably in its like 10th or 13th generation. Like it had had long improvement cycles and Apple being Apple, they've probably put tons of algorithms into the phones that figure out where the subject is. Oh, there's so much going on. Yeah. Like, I don't know. I'm curious how much is still going into it when you're just shooting video, you know, with like the log profile kind of through the app straight to hard drive.

31:19I would imagine it's never raw, raw. Right. I feel like there's going to be some processing going on to help improve the image quality. I'm telling you, just the fact that it's a small sensor, all of this algorithm is just fighting that to make it cinematic. whereas a big 65 millimeter sensor is automatically giving you cinematic yeah of course yeah but also you mentioned this is you have a small basically like kind of like a rialto yeah ish sensor but that is the entire camera yeah and so it's cool he's taking advantage of it because you could do cool stuff like this like you can't mount 20 cameras on a handheld rig and have your grips run and follow a zombie and do a fake bullet time in the middle of the woods yeah you can only do this with an iphone or not to uh toot our own horn but uh many years ago we had a similar idea Okay.