Classic Desert Island Discs - Dame Donna Langley

0:00Lauren Laverne here. We're taking our Easter break, so until we're back on air, we're showcasing a few programmes from our archive. As usual, the music's been shortened for rights reasons. This week's guest is the film studio executive Dame Donna Langley, who was awarded the BAFTA Fellowship this year. I cast her away in 2023.

0:56MUSIC PLAYS

1:17She's also stuck her neck out by backing original content, often where others failed to see the potential. Mamma Mia, Get Out and Straight Outta Compton, the story of the hip-hop group NWA are just three examples from a very long list. It is a testament to her talents that Ice Cube once declared her the sixth member of the band. Though to be clear, she's not from Compton. She's actually straight out of the Isle of Wight, growing up on the UK's so-called Sunshine Island. When she was in her early 20s, she decided to go where the weather was even better, LA. She says, I am hyper competitive with myself.

1:58I push myself to beat my time, to be faster, higher and stronger. Dame Donna Langley, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Thank you so much for having me. Donna, the operation that you run is absolutely vast, but I've so often heard you mention the importance of listening to your gut. Tell me about your decision making process when you're deciding whether or not to green light a film. It starts with whether or not I love it. it's really hard to imagine making a film and going through that process which can take anything from a year to three years without absolutely loving something. Oppenheimer directed by Christopher Nolan and produced by his wife Emma Thomas came out earlier this year now it's obviously a dark subject it's three hours long and technically hugely ambitious what made you say yes to the film?

2:46I was looking for people who make films that are undeniably theatrical you have to see a Christopher Nolan film at the cinema. So I went to Chris and Emma's office in their home and sat by myself and read the script. And I took with me a basket of snacks because I'd heard the script was quite long. So I went loaded up with an iced tea and water. And what struck me about the script was that not only was it an ambitious historical story, but it had a lot of emotional elements to it, like betrayal and love. So it was just a great read. And I wonder about your identity as a Brit and how that's shaped your career.

3:27Has it, do you think? I think it has, yes. Certainly in the way that I do my job. I'm very pragmatic and don't sweat the small stuff. You know, I think that's very much a cultural element of my personality. I wonder if it changes how people respond to you as well. I think they're intimidated by my accent so I just milk it for all I can. Quite right too. It's time for your first disc Donna. What's it going to be? Disc number one is ABBA. Thank you for the music. So ABBA was my first love. It was the first album I ever bought with my own money. I had a little one of those little KTL machines but this song because I could have chosen any Abba song.

4:08But this song really gets to me even today. There is lyrics in it. I'm nothing special. In fact, I'm a bit of a bore, but I have a talent, a wonderful thing. In fact, I'm going to start crying as I'm saying the words. Those lyrics spoke to me as a little girl. They gave me hope that I could actually turn into something, that I could become something, that my dreams may come true one day. You know, it's a song about recognizing your own talent or having somebody else recognize it for you. I'm nothing special In fact, I'm a bit of a bore If I tell a joke You've probably heard it before

4:52But I have a talent A wonderful thing Cause everyone listens When I start to sing I'm so grateful and proud All I want is to sing it out loud Abba, and thank you for the music. Donna Langley were born in London in 1968 and your family moved to the Isle of Wight when you were about seven. You say about your mother, Anne, that she was creative. She also had a political conscience. What do you remember about that side of her? I remember her taking me to a slaughterhouse when I was quite young. I became vegetarian when I was four. I think you did too. I did. Although no trip to the slaughterhouse.

5:38No, I think that was unnecessary. But I just remember my mom always instilling in me this sense of social awareness that the world was a bigger place than the one, you know, just where we were living. And to be mindful of our impact on the world. You know, she was very focused on the environment, even back then in the 70s. and I was out on the streets of the Isle of Wight with a little collection tin, often raising money for Greenpeace and things like that. And you became so vegetarian when you were four, so that would have been 70s, quite early then. Yes, yes, when it was not popular. Yeah, how did that work?

6:18It was a nightmare. Doing home economics and trying to make a Swiss roll with whole wheat flour and brown sugar was virtually impossible. I mean, where did you get the stuff? My parents used to have to go to like the one hippie shop in our region in Newcastle to get organic potatoes? Oh, my mum owned the hippie shop. It started as a market stall and then became two shops. Yes. In the window, we had a basket of recycled toilet paper. So it was recycled paper made into toilet paper, but I was the laughingstock at school because they said our family used recycled toilet paper. Oh, gosh. OK. Your dad, Donna, John, he was an engineer.

6:58He designed radar systems for the Civil Aviation Authority. And while you were growing up, he would work in London during the week and then come home to the family at weekends. I think because the Isle of Wight was so special to your parents, wasn't it? Yeah, this was definitely lost on me as a kid that for 10 years, my dad commuted and he was gone Monday to Friday. And my parents have a wonderful relationship. They're very close. And so it was a real sacrifice for them to do that. I think they fell in love with the Isle of Wight. My dad worked there on the radar system down there when they first got married.

7:32And it was their happy place very much. And I think they wanted to raise their children in an environment where we could be free. We could roam around. The schools were great. Did you develop a love of nature, a love of being outdoors? Very much so I did. I mean, I have an absolute love of the ocean, of the sea. It is a very grounding feeling or sense I get when I think about it. and I think I carry that with me. What was it like off-season when things were a lot quieter and the weather wasn't so good? It was so depressing. I have memories of wandering along the oceanfront just hoping and dreaming that the foreign exchange students from Sweden would show back up and, you know, come back and visit and we'd have to wait.

8:15So the winters were actually very long. It would be a lot of time spent yearning and hoping and wishing for the summer. So yearning and hoping. I mean, were you also hankering for adventure, dreaming of a bigger world? Always. I really was always. Yes, I couldn't wait to leave. It's time for some more music. Your second choice today. What is it and why have you chosen it? It's Zorba the Greek. And I've chosen it because this song really reminds me of my parents. They were not big into music as we were growing up. And this was one of, I think, two records that we had in our house. And so before I had money to buy my own records, this would be one that I would play and it occurs to me that this song is something that I think about when making films.

9:04Great filmmakers do this brilliantly is that they start off low and small and then they build it and build it and build it and this song really does that too. I used to dance around my living room to it.

9:45Zorba the Greek, composed and performed by Mikis Theodorakis. Donna Langley, you'd known from an early age, I think, that you were adopted as a baby. can you remember when your parents told you and what you felt about it? There was never a time where they sat me down and told me I was adopted. It was always part of the conversation. And I think partially because I look nothing like my family. They're blonde hair and blue eyed and I'm the opposite of that. But I think really because they made that decision to be very open about it. And so it was never a thing. It was not a big deal for me. I felt part of the family and if anything it made me feel a little bit special.

10:27What did you know about your birth parents? I don't know very much about them actually. My father was Egyptian, my mother was English and I think they were college students. You know back then adoptions were closed and so I don't have very much information about either of them. And so I got to imagine that my father was Omar Sharif and I've always had in my heart a lot of respect for my birth mother because I imagine that back then it wasn't easy as a young woman to go nine months of pregnancy and have a baby and have to give it up for adoption so I thank her. Obviously you know very happy with your family that you grew up with but did you ever want to find out more were you curious as a kid or did you ever consider digging into it as you got older?

11:12I had moments where I would wonder and I would think about it but never enough quite frankly to spur me to go through the process it just felt horribly disruptive and I'm quite fatalistic and so I thought well I'm I am where I'm supposed to be and with the people I'm supposed to be with and that's enough for me. Do you think that that's partly where your resilience and independence comes from? I think there's a fearlessness there for sure absolutely and I have a trust and a faith in myself and in the universe really to I think sometimes make me okay with taking some risks. All right it's time for some more music Donna Langley your third choice today what's it going to be?

11:55It's the aria that I heard in the film Diva I saw the film Diva when I was in Paris and I used to go to Paris with a friend of mine when I was 18 19 and this film had a very big impact on me. It was the first time I think for me, I saw a foreign film in the movie theater and it was subtitled. And this song really struck me as what music could do in film. And it certainly didn't occur to me at that moment that I would then go and pursue a career in film. But looking back on it, it was a very pivotal and seminal moment for me.

12:48Vivir, mi andro lontano Ai-ikai pose counted O' la viel compagno

13:22li te대� races

13:29mary āts āts A Ben Neandro Lantana from Catalani's La Valle, performed by Wilhelminia Fernandez from the soundtrack to the film Diva. Dame Donna Langley, the Isle of Wight wouldn't have been especially diverse back in the 70s. How aware were you of that growing up and did it ever cause problems for you at school? I did run into some bullying from time to time. People just didn't understand me and didn't really like my features. They made them uncomfortable, curly hair and darker skin. But I was always surrounded by great friends and they would stick up for me and we'd have a good laugh about it always.

14:15And I rarely fought back, but would always stand strong. And so it was a great life lesson. So what form did it take? You said you didn't fight back. Was it physical? Could be. Absolutely. Yes, I was pushed and roughed up a bit. somebody spat in my face and oh it was really quite strange but you know my mum was also a great support here too she would just give me great advice and a way to think about it in a philosophy that still holds true to this day what did she say she would just say you just have to think about what they're going through they obviously are afraid because you're different and it's great that you're different and so they're great words of wisdom and great words of advice and I carry them with me to this day.

14:57You went to sixth form college in Kent where your grandparents lived and then after that you moved to London with your best friend Tanya. Did the two of you have jobs? What was the plan? What were you getting up to? We worked in a health club, a private health club in Bellsize Park Gardens and we were very cheeky and filled with moxie. I think that was where I began to realise that I wanted to push myself to have a big adventure. And what about going to the cinema. Had that played a part in your life when you were growing up? Did you have a local cinema nearby that you could go to? We really didn't on the Isle of Wight.

15:32There was one and we would get the big films there but I didn't develop a love of cinema until about this time in my life. I think there was one experience you had watching the film A Dry White Season. Yes. That was very important to you. It was very important to me and I began to percolate this idea of storytelling and this medium of cinema doing something that was really impactful and really powerful and then sort of linking that back to my childhood and the social I don't want to call it activism because that's not what it was but just the social awareness and social consciousness and that film really did speak to me.

16:12It's about apartheid. It is about apartheid yes and I actually got to meet Yuzan Palsy who was receiving an award by the academy so I got to meet her last year. So you met the director? I did. What did you say? I told her the story. I told her that I was standing there in large part due to her film. I don't think she could. I don't think she believed me. It's time for some more music. Dame Donna Langley, your fourth selection today. What have you chosen and why are you taking it to your desert island? So I'm choosing This Is The Day by The The. So this was a song that was very much the soundtrack of my life in those days living in Hampstead.

16:52The world was my oyster. I thought I was capable of doing anything. And I think we met and had dinner with the manager of Zaza and I thought, oh gosh, I've made it. And I just love the song. Every time I hear it, I get so happy and it takes me right back to that time living in that flat in Hampstead.

17:19Across a blue sky This is the day You're like Rochology This is the day When things fall into play The, the, and this is the day is just the sound of possibility, isn't it, Donna Langley? So in 1991, you and Tanya decided to have an adventure and go to Los Angeles for the summer. What was the plan? That was the plan. We were going... That was the extent of it. That was the extent of the plan. Okay. Well, we worked the entire summer and we got very lucky with the exchange rate and showed up in Los Angeles with our bags and a wad of cash to go and buy a VW Bug. And the thing that I fell in love with was the possibility and the attitude of people.

18:11I'd left London and lots of people questioned why we were going to Los Angeles. What were we going to do there? people said you'll never make it it's a very difficult place to navigate and of course that spurred me on to prove everybody wrong and we met people in those early days who rather than saying all of that would ask what do you want to do how can we help and I thought at that time you know what I'm in the right place this is a community for me and I'm just going to see what I can make of it. So obviously once you were there you had to make ends meet and I know that you got a job at a nightclub on Sunset Boulevard called The Roxbury.

18:50You were its VIP hostess. What did that involve? That involved taking people to their tables. And at that time, it was really the only place to be in Los Angeles. And so everybody used to come in. Stevie Wonder, all the actors. There was a period of time that Madonna came with Sean Penn, directors, just really the who's who of Hollywood. While you were working at the club, you interned for a producer and then worked as an assistant at the production studio New Line Cinema. In 2001, Donna, you joined Universal Studios as Senior Vice President of Production. Now, that was a big step, especially for someone who didn't have a long track record in the business.

19:33Did you have any moments of self-doubt? I thought, oh gosh, at some point, yeah, someone's going to find out that a gig is going to be up, you know, that I don't have any qualifications. And it wasn't until, I don't know, probably 10 years ago that I looked around and said, oh, hold on a minute. I actually do know what I'm doing. And what propelled you until you got there? I mean, what were you what were you pairing yourself with? I think just the sense of wanting to get it done and prove to myself that I could do it and I could outwork and outpace anyone. Yeah, I think I was just in probably a big dose of fear.

20:12Yeah, gets you out of bed in the morning. It certainly does the adrenaline, always does the trick. One of the first films that you supported was Straight Outta Compton about the hip-hop band NWA. It came out in 2015. Why were you so determined to get that film made? I thought that it was a bigger story than people expected, even though it was about gangster rap in a very specific moment in time. it was also about young people taking on the system how easy was it to convince people that it was a great idea it wasn't easy there were a couple of fights along the way on that one so even with your own with my own team okay yes there were a couple of people on my team how do you navigate that as a leader at the end of the day the buck stops with me right so really what people are looking for is okay this is my opinion but what happens if it goes horribly wrong and I was willing to stand up in front of this one.

21:09We're going to go to the music, Dame Donna Langley, your fifth choice today, if you would. What are we going to hear next and why? We are going to hear It Was A Good Day by Ice Cube. This song makes me think of blue skies and palm trees, all of those iconic things that you think about when you think about Los Angeles. Had to stop at a red light Looking in my mirror, not a jacker inside And everything is all right I got a beat from Kim and she could do it all night Called up the homies and I'm axing y 'all Which part are y 'all playing basketball? Get me on the court and I'm troubled Last week messed around and got a triple-double Freaking brothers every way like MJ I can't believe today was a good day It was a good day, Ice Cube.

21:59Donna Langley, how did you adapt to the cut and thrust of working in Hollywood, I wonder. Historically, even today, it's not known for a culture of kindness. No, definitely not. And people do tend to trade on their power and mistake the seat that they're sitting in for actual power. It's not. And so there's a lot of ego, as you can imagine. I'm pretty adept at navigating people's egos and dealing with difficult people. How do you do it? What's the secret? I'm a good listener. I like to hear and understand where someone's coming from and then appeal to the better nature. You were the chair of Universal for a decade, Donna, but when you first applied for that role in 2009, you didn't get the job.

22:45Why do you think you didn't get it back then? In 2009, the culture was very different and we hadn't gone through a Me Too movement and we hadn't begun talking about a workplace culture and a respectful working environment. and I was working in a very male dominated environment. And I think I had back some movies that didn't work. One movie in particular called State of Play, which was based on the television program. It's actually a wonderful film, but it just did not connect commercially. And I remember being told that I was too smart for my own good and I was perhaps missing out on other opportunities that might connect to an audience a little better.

23:31that I was focused on making things that were... Too cerebral. Too cerebral, too sophisticated. Do you think there was a gender dynamic at play there? I do. And things have changed now? I think things have definitely changed for the better. There's always more to do, but we're on the right track. And you had your first child around then, around that time. How much maternity leave were you able to take? I took nine weeks. I was on a plane to New York after nine weeks. Oh, that must have been really tough. It was really horrible. Yes. Having to go through security with breast milk. Did you feel under pressure to go back?

24:11I did. Yes. Looking back on that time, it was very stressful. There was a lot of politics going on at the company. We were, I think, about to be sold. And it was every man for himself. So, yeah, I think I felt under a ton of pressure to go back. It's time for your sixth disc, Donna. What are you taking to the island next? Never is a Promise by Fiona Apple. It was from the album title. I think it came out in 1996. And I'd just broken up with a boyfriend of two years. and I was really at a time where I was beginning to mature. I didn't quite know where my life or my career was going, but I knew I had to make some changes.

25:00But before I got to make any changes, I got to wallow in this album. This is a song that really moves me. It's about a broken promise, I think. At least that's what it means to me. You'll never see the courage I know Its colour's richness won't appeal within your view I'll never glow the way that you glow Your presence dominates the judgments made on you Never is a promise, Fiona Apple. Well, Dame Donna Langley, I want to ask you a little bit more about the dark side of Hollywood. What was your reaction when the full extent of the sexual abuse perpetrated by Harvey Weinstein came to light? It was shocking.

25:59I'll never forget where I was when the article broke, the great reporting done by the New York Times. and we knew that Harvey was a bully but we did not know as an industry at large the extent of the abuse. Why do you think he was able to get away with it for so long? Well, back then you just didn't really talk about it and I think that he created a system. It was pathological and he was very clever. This was decades of behavior going unchecked and abuses of power in a myriad of different ways. And it certainly predates me coming into the industry. I think things did improve. There were more women in positions of power as I was coming up.

26:51And I think when you have women in power, it does change the climate and it changes the environment. But it was still, again, somewhat assumed that bad behavior went on. And I mean, I think for myself and my peers, we just knew that it came with the territory. And that's the thing that's really changed today. Donna, last year you said yes to the film She Said. That's based on the story of the two New York Times journalists who broke the story, Jodie Cantor and Megan Toohey. How long did it take you to greenlight that? I read the script. The producer sent it to me. And I called her immediately and said, we're going to do this.

27:29It's a story that can never be forgotten. we have to always remember that that was made possible and that something that bad went on for a very long time unchecked and as an industry we've we've just got to remember that because it's very easy to move on once you're out of the crisis of the movement and people go on to the next thing and don't want to talk about that anymore so I wanted it to exist and as it turns out it didn't connect with the audience. I think it was a very difficult film to market. The film is wonderful. I'm very proud of it. And I'm very glad that we made it. I don't like losing money on a film at all.