Cyndi Lauper, singer-songwriter

0:00BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. And for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

0:44My cast away this week is the singer, songwriter and activist Cindy Lauper. She burst onto the scene in 1983 with her album She's So Unusual. And she really was. An explosion of colour and joy with a look and sound that were equal parts spirit and skill. Her dressing up box aesthetic inspired a million lookalikes. her own inspirations were more esoteric. She draped herself in thrift store petticoats, pasted Van Gogh's Starry Night to the soles of her high-heeled shoes, recruited Annie Leibovitz to shoot the album cover and insisted that the instrumentation on the record's centrepiece, Girls Just Wanna Have Fun, should evoke the Coney Island fairground she'd grown up visiting.

1:24The exuberant catchiness of that track and the soaring success of those that followed belied the years she'd spent struggling to become an overnight success. She's sold over 50 million records, won two Grammys and her debut album was the first by a female artist to spawn four consecutive US Top 5 singles She also won an Emmy as an actress and then took on Broadway composing the music and lyrics for the internationally successful and Tony Award winning musical Kinky Boots Her activism, inspired by her own experiences of homelessness and misogyny has seen her testify before Congress and been honoured by the UN She was unusual.

2:03She still is. She says, the truth is, you always have to listen to what's inside. Not the narrative, not the naysayers, not the gatekeepers. There's always a way around the gate. Always. Cindy Lauper, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Hey, how are you doing? I need an umbrella. It's too hot. You're already too hot on the island with the sun. Don't worry, there's an umbrella available. there you go so Cindy you've recently been back on the road for a Farewell World Tour it began in 2024 almost 40 years since your first big arena shows I wonder how it's been for you saying goodbye to fans has it been emotional?

2:39I finally got to do this wonderful show with this wonderful artistic director Brian Burke it's not Spinal Tap because it started to turn into Spinal Tap sometimes there's a sweet spot isn't there that you've got to hit before you get there? Well, when I first started, I wanted to fly across the audience, but I wanted a cherry picker. You know, I wanted to be like the Rolling Stones, right? Or Tina Turner, she had a cherry picker. Why can't I? They said, you know, you can't afford the cherry picker, but, you know, we can do a garbage pail. But you're also ahead of your time, Cindy. As you're describing, there's always been this incredibly strong visual element and these esoteric inspirations to the work that you do, and you're still carrying that on in your live shows today.

3:27But tell me from your perspective, you know, you create this spectacle for the audience. What's it like looking out? Who's coming to your farewell shows? My husband came to five of them and he started to take pictures of people coming in. Everybody, all different kinds of people, all ages. And it's a safe place to come and be together and dance and laugh and cry and feel hopeful and happy when you leave. And that is what I'm trying to do. We're going to be listening to your tracks today, Cindy, that you've chosen to take to the island. It must have been difficult narrowing them down to eight. What's your first choice?

4:12What have you gone for? Why are you taking it with you? Well, the first music that I remember was the music my mother played us. And she loved classical music. She would play this music And I remember this very clearly She had bought a new stereo And in those days, you know, a stereo was like It was like a Victrola It was like this and it was a portable So it opened up and when it opened up Those were the speakers And this is a record Debussy's Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun And I remember hearing it and the melody was stunning. And I even said to her, I said, Mom, sometimes when you hear this stuff, is it so beautiful that it just makes you cry?

5:05And she said, yes, that's what music can do. And she always shared with us like that. And this was one of the first things that I remembered.

5:25Amen.

6:19Dibbussi prelude to the afternoon of a fawn performed by the Orchestra National de Lyon. Cindy Lauper, you were born the second of three children to Fred and Katrine in 1953 and initially grew up in Brooklyn. What are your memories of that neighbourhood? To me it was... Well, yeah, I was a strange kid. It was very magical. It was a little like Shakespeare because, you know, she kept taking us to the Shakespeare festivals because they were free. And museums. She loved all of that, didn't she? Yeah. I mean, sometimes, like when I was five, you know, you'd be walking on the hard floor and be like, oh, I want to go home.

6:58No, you should look at these pictures, you know. So you were seeing Romeo and Juliet on the fire escapes of your Brooklyn neighborhoods. It wasn't like Romeo and Juliet. They're very blue collar. There were women pulling wash in. The sheets looked like sails. I was blown away by the women's version of glamour. They would also copy the stars. So what were they wearing? Are we talking like the heels and the bouffants and the eyeliner and everything? Red lipstick, dyed hair, and a cigarette dangling sometimes, you know, and they'd be cha-cha and over there. And, you know, and then there was the big church, you know, everybody had to go to the church, you know, St.

7:43Mary Gates of Heaven, but sometimes it felt like the gates of hell, but, you know, what can you do? And they used to have flags, like by the grocery store. So it was always, to me, like a little celebration. You had the women that were all dressed up coming out of the beauty parlor and you had the flags, all different colours. And it was a colourful place. Cindy, I want to ask about your mum because I feel like I've already been introduced to her via your videos. I've seen her and your aunts on screen in several of them. But I know she was a huge influence on you. So tell me more about her. It sounds like she was creative and interested in the arts and music.

8:19She was very patient, too, because I was a really, really odd kid. In what way? In every way. My idea of play was listening to her records. She had musicals. And because there were so many different voices, it's what I did all day. I would listen and imitate them, and then I would listen again and imitate them. And I had it down, you know, but this was how I spent my time. My father also loved books and he would always have instruments all over the place. What kind of instruments? Like he wanted to play xylophone, so there'd be a xylophone in the porch, you know. And he would play harmonica. Unfortunately for my dad, you know, they lived through a strange time.

9:10They lived through depression and wars. Did you have a sense of that as a little girl, that you were seeing parents who maybe hadn't fulfilled their ambitions, their dreams? Starkly clear, for the women especially, but also for my dad. He was always curious. He loved tinkering and playing this and playing that. And his idea was when he retired, he had an organ and he was going to play in a bar. What did he do for a living? What was he doing instead? He was a shipping clerk at Boulevard Watch, which is where he met my mom. I want to make room for your second choice today. Tell us about this next track.

9:49My mother loved to sit and talk and be with us. And she would play different music. So there was this wonderful album, Satch Does Fats. And it was Louis Armstrong, of course. And we were girls. We had to do chores. So we'd separate all the clothes. but we were all together and then she'd play this music and we'd dance wildly I remember how wildly we would dance and how much fun this was and this kind of banter like when I did the Frank Sinatra thing with Santa Claus coming to town yes you collaborated well I was in the studio you worked together so in the studio if it's already sung and it was sung, you do more than you need.

10:42So I did a lot of the banter stuff that I learned listening from Satchmo when I was little. So that's why when he says, he sees you when you're, and really, you know, because. And how did that go down with Sinatra? I mean, that takes Moxie. Not well. He thought I was so disrespectful. But what I didn't think to say, what it really was, now I know, should have been a little letter to him saying, dear Mr. Snodra, in no way was I being disrespectful. When you go in the studio, you do more than what you need. I didn't know what you were going to choose, so I did more. So you could choose the best things that you like to put on the record.

11:30And that kind of banter was just an influence that I learned as a young kid listening to Louis Armstrong. But of course, I didn't say that. I just got, oh, my God, he hates you now. But I don't care. They knew what they signed up for. Well, I don't know. I guess so. Anyway, this song is fun. And he had such spirit. And this was before I knew anything about anything.

12:14Hey, Pops, what's wrong, Daddy? You look like something's bothering you. See, nothing bothers me, honey, that a piece of roast beef can't fix up. Well, I'll tell you one thing, Pops. A man works hard, then comes on home. Expects to find stew with that fine ham bone He opens the door, then starts to looking Say, woman, what's this stuff you cooking? Now all that meat and no potatoes I just sing right there like a green tomato Here I'm waiting, pal potato With all that meat and no potatoes. Louis Armstrong and his all-stars, All That Meat and No Potatoes. Cyndi Lauper, your mum had a beautiful singing voice.

13:07She actually was offered a scholarship to go to school and... In Manhattan, yeah. And study music and sing. Yeah, well, that didn't go along with my grandfather's plans. I mean, he literally told her, only whores go to school in Manhattan. I actually found her eighth grade picture, her graduation, and all the kids have a look on their face, but hers, those eyes, they were heartbroken. And grown up, always heard these stories about her friends went to California, they found a job for her and sent a letter back. My grandfather found the letter, tore it up. Every turn, the women were disenfranchised and cut off from any kind of life, but being around the family and, you know, free domestic help, taking care of your parents when they get old, which is a nice thing, but not if they have talent and maybe they should have an opportunity to actually enjoy life.

14:12Cindy, let me ask you more about your mom's story. You mentioned the dynamics with your grandfather. Sadly, they played out in her marriages as well because your parents' marriage wasn't happy and they divorced when you were just five. They fought a lot. Okay. And I used to watch. And I think what happened was, you know, remember in the late 40s and early 50s, it was very, you'd go to movies and you'd see these women throwing dishes and breaking dishes. And that was like, oh, look at that. She used to throw dishes against the wall. And I was watching. And I think a shard went in my head when they were fighting, and they rushed me to the hospital, and I had a little scar, but they felt it was not good for them to be together.

15:00It wasn't safe, and if they couldn't control their tempers, they shouldn't do this. So they split. She remarried, and that wasn't a happy marriage either. She was in love and we wanted her to be happy. But unfortunately, you know, he had a great sense of humor, but he was also very disturbed. It was kind of like living with Don Nichols and Freddy Krueger, kind of all together. Frightening for you? Well, then you would go to school with the nuns and they were pretty scary too. So your mom sent you away to school, you and your sister Ellen. Convent. And she was scared for you. She was trying to keep you away from your stepfather.

15:41Why? Well, he threatened. Threatened a lot of bad things. So he threatened to beat up her parents, rape her children. I was like, oh, yeah, he's a keeper. No matter what, if the police came, they would come domestic violence leave. They don't care. This must have meant for you, though, because you started, I think, writing songs when you were about 12 or so, so even younger. So music must have felt even more of an escape if home is difficult and school is really challenging. That must have been so vivid, such a bright spot. It was, well, my dad, he got Ellen a guitar. And then when she graduated eighth grade, he got her an electric guitar, like a baby Strat and a twin amp.

16:33which then we had a group and I sang. So there's the two of you, was your little brother in it? No, me, my sister and her friend Diane Andromeda was one of the girls from Howard Beach. Well, on that note, Cindy Lauper, I think we should have some more music. Your third choice today, what's it going to be? Okay, well, Italians, they love Puccini. And my mother kept playing this stuff, you know. And it was always like, Mom, you know, it doesn't work out for her in the end, right? She dies, or it's not good for her. It's always bad for the woman. She loved this aria from Madame Butterfly, One Fine Day.

17:12The greatest voice of the century, female to me, one of them, is Maria Callas. and I think she's extraordinary because of the way she would be loud and then soft and then full and then almost like talking and the control and the beauty and her story, which was so tragic because her life was like an opera, but her voice was incredible.

18:00ooh

18:21Oye la nave bianca

18:30Intróni del corno Con tu sassaro

18:42Vivi One Fine Day We Shall See from Puccini's Madame Butterfly sung by Maria Callas with the Orchestra del Teatro alla Scala di Milano, conducted by Herbert von Carian. Cindy Lauper, you left home at 17, moving in with your sister Ellen. She wasn't much older than you, and you didn't have any money, but it does sound like she created a really nurturing environment between her and her friends, who I think lived... Her friend, yeah, they were very kind to us. I just kept failing and failing and failing and failing, and then Ellen, when Ellen graduated and left, I just was like lost. That must have been hard because she left home and you were left behind in the house.

19:25At one point she said, get your stuff and come here right now because it wasn't safe anymore. I just remember that school was, it was hard. I was talented in art, but it didn't work out. and there was a lot of stoners and whatever and they were just in this class and I just felt like, great, I woke up in hell. You know, finally I did leave school but they said I was most likely to die or become an artist. They had no idea what was going to become of me. There was something in the yearbook where they'd said you were the most likely to fail. That they would even vote on that or put it in the yearbook.

20:04No, no, no, no, no, no, that was a joke. That was a joke. That I was most likely to die. But still. What the head of the art department said, she's either going to be an artist or she's going to die. One or the other. She's got to pull it together. I mean, obviously glad that it worked out and you became an artist. But at the time, what did it feel like hearing that? I didn't care. I kind of liked the fact that people thought I was a little cray-cray. What was the dream for you back then? Did you want to be an artist yourself? Did you think that was a possibility? Yeah. But I gave up. And I tried really hard to fit into the world and get a job.

20:45And, you know, I just got fired a lot, you know. What were you doing? What kind of thing? Well, you know, the whole office thing. I was a gal Friday the 13th and I was awful, even though I tried. But I sucked. You weren't cut out for it. Your career was almost over before it began because you also lost your voice for a year after you'd just started out as a singer. What happened exactly and how did you get it back? You sing in these bands. You have to learn how to perform and stuff. So I would be singing and they'd have the 200-watt Marshall amps right by me and the cymbal where the guy would be hitting it right by your head.

21:27So you're singing loud and learning to compensate. And in this little fart box that was supposed to be the monitor. So basically, I'm hearing this. And they're like, And I remember at one point, I asked one of the guitar players in the second band to please turn down. And he just ignored me because I had to sing over him. So I was playing cowbell, you know, with the broken drumstick. So I jabbed him. And then he got really upset. He stopped playing. And I said, thank you. I'd love to hear some more music Your fourth choice today Okay, well this is the song That my grandmother heard so many times And you know, you always think it's the movie star That's doing it But it isn't Marnie Nixon And she was the stand-in And Debra Carr got to lip-sync to her These songs were how I learned to sing I played this album so much This getting to know you And the album of The King and I So much That my grandmother who lived upstairs She just came downstairs She lifted the needle off my little red record player Picked up the record Didn't say a word And just walked back upstairs And that was the end of that record I never saw that record again because she just couldn't take it.

23:00And my mom, God bless her, everything was like okay, you know, with her. Getting to know you, getting to know all about you. Getting to like you, getting to hope you like me. Getting to know you, putting it my way But nicely, you are precisely my cup of tea Getting to know you, from the film's soundtrack to The King and I, sung by Marnie Nixon. Cindy, you eventually left the band Blue Angel and started working as a solo artist. Your first album, She's So Unusual, was a huge hit. You'd spent your 20s grafting to get musical success. Once you got it, how was it? How did you find fame? Well, I still think there needs to be that book, How to Be Famous for Dummies, because you really, it's a shocker.

24:09Your look back then, I mean, obviously, your aesthetic is still central to your art today, but that was one of the first things that made such a big impression on everyone. This colourful hair shaved at the side, you know, corsets and petticoats, copied a million times. These days, any star, any artist will be working with it. You know, stylists, makeup artists. Was it like that back then or was it more DIY? You know, I worked at a vintage clothing store. And I worked there because I shopped there. And I figured, why not work where you love the clothes? And, of course, I put a lot of stuff on layaway, and after a while it was too much.

24:50I wasn't allowed to lay away the clothes anymore. But I used to love to dress people when they came in. And the owner of the store, when I got, you know, because a lot of other stylists would come in, and they'd ask for something, and she'd put something together for them and bag it. And then they'd go and use it, and they would be the stylist. and I said to her one time, I said, you know, don't worry. When I do my album cover, you'll be my stylist. And was she? Yeah, of course she was. For years we worked together. So you were adapting clothing to make it your own. You were, you know, changing styles and you did that with your music too.

25:33You know, the instrumentation, that's a hugely successful album. You know, single after single hit big. And of course, Girls Just Want to Have Fun was the centerpiece. But originally, this was a track that you weren't keen to do. You had to adapt it and make it your own, make it fit you. How did you do it? When I was in Blue Angel, I learned a lot from John Tory, who helped me understand that different keys would make your voice sound completely different. And then you would take on a different personality, different spirit, whatever. I started doing that, and I also realized my grandmother and my mother, they were tailors.

26:14So they could take clothing that were hand-me-downs, pull them apart, put them back together on you, and it looked perfect, like it was made for you. So I started to feel like that kind of mentality is the same for songs, isn't it? And so you take it apart and put it back together so that it sounds like it's you. But you also, Cindy, changed the lyric. Yeah, absolutely, and edited some things that didn't make sense. They wanted me to make a female anthem. They just didn't realize that they talked to somebody who burnt a training bra at the first demonstration at the Alice in Wonderland statue in the 60s.

26:57So originally, the original track, I think, you know, it's a son singing to his father. Yeah, oh, daddy, dear, nudge, nudge, we are the fortunate ones. Because girls, they want to have fun with us. Why not? You know, and why not? That makes sense. But it didn't make sense as a woman to sing that. Like, what am I singing about? It needed a new spirit and a new arrangement. We did it and it worked. Cindy, your mum was also in the video for Girls Just Want to Have Fun. In fact, she was in several of your pop videos. There was something so fantastic about her on film, something so vulnerable that I didn't realise, you know.

27:40And I put her on film and she's photogenic and she's doing this thing. And she's never done anything. And she's actually just great in the video. Well, she just did it because she wanted to spend more time with me. What was it like for her to be able to share in your success like that? Well, she actually was really shy, and I realised I was pushing her to do things she didn't want to do. She just wanted to spend time with me and play. And to her, being in the videos, was just playing. I want to hear some more music. Cindy, it's time for your fifth choice today. What have we got? Well, when the Beatles came over, it was mayhem.

28:16My cousin, Linda, she gave us for Christmas, meet the Beatles. So when they came to America one of the times, I was 11 by that time, so I was old enough, I guess, for her. And me and my sister and her friend Diane, she drove us, because she worked at the airport too as a waitress, so she drove us to a spot where she knew the cars driving from Kennedy Airport would pass. So she dropped us on the side and she said, Do not move from here. I'm going to be there, and I'm going to come back in a little while. Here comes the car. I start screaming. I had my eyes closed. Then all of a sudden, I opened my eyes, and I saw the back of their heads, and I said, what a jerk.