Gustavo Dudamel, conductor

0:00BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast from BBC Radio 4. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury, that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music's shorter than on the original broadcast, but you can find a version with longer music tracks on BBC Sounds. Listeners will also get access to episodes 28 days earlier than everyone else. I hope you enjoy listening.

0:50My cast away this week is the conductor Gustavo Dudamel. He's a music superstar whose popularity transcends traditional genre expectations. As musical director of the Los Angeles Philharmonic for the past 17 years, nobody has done more to bring classical music to new audiences or to inspire young musicians. He was born in Venezuela in 1981 and at the age of five joined El Sistema, the country's youth music programme. He first picked up the baton at 12 and became director of the LA Philharmonic just 14 years later. Under his leadership, the orchestra has, as well as exploring the classical canon, embraced collaborations with the pop world, playing the Super Bowl halftime show and Coachella Festival, as well as introducing a US version of the programme he grew up in.

1:37Youth Orchestra Los Angeles reaches almost 2 ,000 young musicians in LA and many more nationwide. His accolades include seven Grammys, the America Society Cultural Achievement Award, the Leonard Bernstein Lifetime Achievement Award, the Gish Prize, the Gold Medal for Merit in Fine Arts from Spain and a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. At 44, he's about to begin a new chapter at the New York Philharmonic, stepping up to the podium where Toscanini, Marla and Leonard Bernstein stood before him. He says, I've made it my personal mission not to rest until music is truly a fundamental human right for everyone.

2:14Gustavo Dudamel, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Thank you very much. You're laughing at your own introduction. It's dizzy. I've been embarrassed completely. It's a lot. So, Gustavo, you've performed all over the world. Do audiences differ much in their appreciation of classical music? Do you kind of think, oh, we're in London tonight, great, they're going to love us? I think every place have, I don't know how to say in English, the idiosyncrasia, their own culture, their own way to appreciate culture. And I think you feel, of course, that there is a difference, but at the end it's not a difference because also the connection is always the same.

2:52And people, I think, love music, you know, I think it's something natural. And you can feel that connection with an audience in the room? Completely. I think it's the most important thing. If you don't connect, then nothing happens, you know. And of course, you are the kind of crucible for that connection, the conductor, the one that holds everything together. And it's a tremendous responsibility that. So when you walk out on stage at the beginning of a performance, what's going through your mind? What is always there is excitement. And I think it's always in my mind that very young Gustavo that was seduced by the power of music.

3:30I think it's always that. And I'm always, I feel this is a gift. I'm grateful to life to give me the opportunity to do this and to do with these wonderful musicians that I have the opportunity to work with. So it's pure emotion, it's adrenaline, it's excitement. The real power of music is the mystery of how that touches us and from where that is coming, you know. It's very special. Now, choosing anyone's discs for Desert Island Discs is always difficult, but I'm imagining for you much more difficult than most. How did you narrow down your list to just eight today? It must have been agony. I consider myself not a classical musician.

4:12I consider myself a lover of music, you know, and a music lover. It's always that music that is really connected with something there that it makes you feel, I don't know, the magic of life, I think. Well, we're going to spread a little bit of that magic today. So let's get started with your first choice. What have you gone for, disc number one? Well, the first one is this music that is coming from my home, from Barquisimeto, from La Sucre, which is the neighborhood where I grew up. It's called Catalina Laó by Pite Conde Rodriguez, an amazing salsa singer from Puerto Rico. And I grew up listening to salsa because my father played salsa.

4:59and I think I learned first to dance than to listen to music because this is the music that in the Caribbean area is part of our identity.

5:42Catalina Laó, Pete El Conde Rodríguez. So, Gustavo Dudamel, you were born in 1981 in Bacchicimetro, Venezuela. Your parents, Oscar and Sol Angel, were both musicals. So your dad was a player, as you said. What did your mum do? My father is a trombone player. They married when they were really young. I was born when they were like teenagers. They met in a Gaita group. So Gaita is a typical folk music in Venezuela from El Zulia, from Maracaibo. And my mother was singing. My father was playing, I think, the drums and all of that. And they met. That's the magic, isn't it? That's the chemistry. When they were like 14, 15 years old.

6:24So it was like they got in love. and of course my mother was always singing. So would she sing with you? Do you remember that around the house when you were a kid? Yes, always. She teached me a lot of music, a lot of songs, you know. It was always music around. And Barquisimeto, it is known as the music capital of Venezuela, so music huge there. I mean, how did it earn that title? They did a census and they were counting the people and what they found is that in every house in Barquisimeto was a musical instrument. also the music is such an important thing in the city still you know you see people playing serenades you know for people which we don't see often like literally singing up to windows in the street literally I did that you know I did that as a teenager and you see all of this heritage of wonderful cultural deep music in the town And I had an uncle, he was a doctor, and he passed during the COVID, but he was playing typical instrument.

7:31The cuatro is the most typical instrument in Venezuela. And he told me, look, Gustavito, he said, if you go out and you play Brahms, you play Mahler, you play Vivaldi, all of this music, you have to play the music from your town. So he teach me all of these valses, all of these merengues, all of this typical music. and so I got into also the folk Venezuelan music so deeply because of that. So I have been swimming in all of these music styles. From the beginning? From the very beginning. From a young age. Yeah. And you mentioned that your parents were really young when they had you. So what are your memories of them back then?

8:07Family life must have been kind of energetic and fun with young parents. I have to say very energetic. Loud. Loud because my father loved to listen to music and my family loved to listen to music. So did he have like a stereo at home and all of that, the sound system? He had this amazing huge speaker stereos in the 80s. I remember, you know, huge, like one, two. And it was a very small apartment. It was like 51 square metres, something like that. And we were all living there. My grandparents, my uncles, my parents. It was amazing. And it was always music there. And did you, so did he let you touch the sound system?

8:46because some dads are quite like, you're not allowed. Oh, no. I can tell by the look on your face. It was forbidden. It was forbidden, but I did. Forbidden fruit. You couldn't resist. I did because I had to do it when I started to conduct the recordings. So this is when you would conduct with your toys? Exactly. As a little boy. And I had to touch that because I had to balance, to play less loud, louder. And I stopped it. I destroyed the LPs that I had at that time because I was stopping, going back, stopping, going back. So I was doing proper rehearsals. Oh, man. So, yeah, you were going over every phrase and in charge of the dynamics.

9:26Not together. It was perfect, you know. Imagine all of these great orchestras. I think it was your grandmother who took you to your first classical concert, though, when you were really little. How old were you? I was, I think, six years old. I went first to a salsa. I went a lot to salsa concerts of my father first. Yeah. You know, and I wanted to be a salsa player. You know, I still have that dream. But I wanted to be in that stage playing and dancing with these people like Biteconde Rodriguez, Fania All Star. And my father was doing amazing. But then my grandmother took me to a concert where my father was playing, because he was also playing in the youth orchestra of my town, the Lara Symphony Youth Orchestra.

10:15And they were playing, I remember, Sheherazad by Rimsky-Korsakov. And I was amazed about the amount of people on the stage making beauty together, making a sound that I was so touched by. And I saw, of course, that amount of instruments. I wanted to play the trombone like my father. But then I saw the violins, the cellos, all of this. And I saw this man moving in front of all of them, which was, I think, I thought he was the instrument. He was the instrument. And, you know, it was becoming, the sound was coming from him and it was not. I discovered later that, but I was amazed. And that was that was that first concert that my grandmother took me.

11:04So it was beautiful. Gustavo Dudamel, it's time to make some room for your second choice today, your second disc. What have you got for us and why? Well, we are in Parquisimeto. This is a beautiful song by Adelis Freitas, which was a very good friend of mine, him and his family. And he is one of the most important folk musicians of Venezuela. And he wrote all of this wonderful music, very engaged with the social movements and all of that. And he wrote this beautiful song about love, which is very simple. It's a merengue, Venezuelan merengue, in the most tender way, which is called acidito. What are the lyrics saying here?

11:47What will we hear? It says like the love is like a lemon, and it's dropping in your heart and it's very acid. It's a little acid, but it's the flavor, you know. The love is not only sweet, it can be also, it has all of these kind of, you know, flavors. Sharpness. Exactly. I love that.

12:24Anoche se reflejaba la luna Sobre el espejo de la laguna Y me hizo acordar de una ilusión Que llevo en el corazón cual ninguna

12:37Con la tuna del limón Se clavó en mi... Así Dito, Adeles Freitas Gustavo Dudamel, you talked about when you were a very little boy arranging your toys in the shape of an orchestra so you would put music on the record player classical music and then you would conduct what was happening. So what did your family make of you doing that? Nothing. It was very serious. And I have to say I had an amazing free childhood. So I was never pushed to do anything. Although I was doing thousands of things. I was doing music. I remember I was in karate. I remember I was in my swimming class. I was doing baseball, soccer.

13:19So many things. But when I had my time of playing with my toys, it was a ritual. And I have these little toys that I put exactly like an orchestra. And I seated them. I make a stage. I put lights. But I did rehearsals, which was incredible. And then I was playing that for my family. It was beautiful. It was like a very genuine, innocent ritual. Did you have a baton and everything? What did you use? At that time, no. But then my grandmother saw that I was loving and loving that and then she bought me a baton. So soon you enrolled in another class on top of the karate and the swimming, El Sistema, the music programme.

14:07You were five years old. So this was a state-sponsored music teaching programme aimed at teaching young people from all backgrounds an instrument and yours was the violin. Yes. How did you take to it? I went to a drummond player like my father but at home that was my father's instrument which was a huge trombone I couldn't play that instrument you know the arms somebody blow and I move here and it was it was kind of very funny it was impossible but even I was trying I was like running to the other end exactly running down to the bottom of the instrument but it was exactly like that so most of my friends they play violin.

14:46I tried a little bit with the trumpet for a very little time, but it didn't work. And I took violin. My dream as a musician was not to be conducting the top orchestras and working with the best musicians. It was to be with my friends. And it was every weekend, you know, doing our rehearsal with the chamber orchestra. We were playing our chamber music and composing and it was the most delicious thing. I remember that with all my love and it's always here, you know. When I'm working with the privilege that I have to work with these best orchestras, best musicians, I put that feeling that it was pure love, not expecting anything.

15:30Well, we'll find out what will happen next in a moment, but we've got to make some room for the music. This is your third choice. What are we going to hear next and why? Well, we stay in South America, and this is one of the most emblematic songs of Latin American culture by this wonderful woman, Chabuca Granda. She wrote so many songs, and this is her most famous one called La Flor de la Canela, which I had the chance to listen a lot when I was a little boy at home because my grandmother listened to this. and I had the chance, well, even to conduct this music with Juan Diego Flores in some concerts that I have done with him, which is a wonderful friend and a brother.

16:17This is one of the most symbolic songs of the Latin culture.

16:54La flor de la canela, chabuca granda. So, Gustavo, you first picked up a baton when you were 12 in the concert hall rather than in your apartment at home. How did it happen? I was playing in a chamber orchestra, and my maestro, Luis Jimenez, he was late for the rehearsal. I went to the podium, and I started to imitate all the different conductors that we knew. And in a moment, I was conducting with my eyes like Caraghan, with my eyes closed, and conducting like this. And in a moment, they stopped it, and they started to laugh, and I was like, okay. and I opened my eyes and in my left was Maestro Luis Jiménez.

17:37So he'd seen you. And I said, like, this is the end. And then he said, like, keep doing the rehearsal. And he was guiding me, but he let me do the rehearsal and then we finished and I was like, OK, here is coming the moment. And he says, like, look, something in you. I want for you to be my assistant. And I became assistant conductor of the orchestra. And how long was it before you got your hands on the full conducting score, the part of you? Because I was conducting there. I was conducting Mozart. I was conducting Vivaldi. I was conducting all of this chamber music. Even I was conducting my music.

18:15I was composing music at that time. I was also playing at the youth orchestra, which I got the chance also to conduct, you know, the symphonic music. and then I discovered this Mahler's course, which I said like, oh my God, what is this? How to do this? Because I knew this small course and then it became this huge orchestration and all of that. But it was very natural. It was when I was called by Maestro Abreu, the creator of El Sistema, and he said, look, Gustavo, I was playing in the National Children's Orchestra and he said like, now you are the new music director of the National Children's Orchestra.

18:55I was 15, 16 years old, and that was the moment where I started to learn all of these scores, you know. And now, when you work with a partitio, I think you start quite a long time in advance of a big concert. It can be a year and a half before, you know, you start kind of spending time with it. When you are reading a huge document like that, are you hearing the music? Yes. It's a very special process, because, of course, you go to the piano, you analyze harmony and all of that, but mostly you are reading. That is why reading for me is so important. You know, literature, philosophy, it's something that I loved to do since I was a young boy.

19:40And I relate that to what I do with the score, with a partitur of a symphony. I'm reading and imagining, but never, I have to be honest, I'm never studying and, like, moving my hand in front of the score. I don't do that. I read the score. And when it's the moment to arrive to work with the orchestra, everything comes out, reading. And it's interesting that because you've said that when you're on the podium, you feel completely free. So that sounds like, you know, you've done all that preparation. It's all kind of in there and then, bang, it comes out on the night. Completely. It's not a day that I don't study a score.

20:22And of course, you are in a process that you are digesting the music, but really digesting. I think your soul is kind of eating, you know, your intellect is eating and then you are digesting what you are having. All of these details, all of these geniuses that we had the chance to touch through Mahler, through Stravinsky, to John Adams, through Mozart, to all of these great geniuses that write this amazing music. And then you are in front of the orchestra and then they have their music and you connect with all of that kind of ideas, all of that kind of realities that we put in the music. And then we create something, you know, we recreate, but we are creating in that moment that the sound, you know.

21:13Gustavo, it's time for your fourth disc today. What are we going to hear next? Well, look, it took us, Mahler, you know, that first score. This music, as I told you, playing the trombone of my father, learning that three notes. It was one of the most amazing things when I was a little boy. Then playing in the orchestra and then being named music director of the most important orchestra in El Sistema. It is a symbol, and this is the Mahler's first symphony. And I pick the last movement, which is full of everything. It'll be a whole world on your island. Yes.

22:35¶¶

22:56Part of the fourth movement of Mahler's Symphony No. 1, performed by the Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra of New York, conducted by Bruno Walter. Gustavo, do you remember the first time you conducted that piece with a big orchestra? I remember I did with the National Children Orchestra. It was amazing. I had to learn the score in a few days. Your profile outside Venezuela grew when you won the first Gustav Mahler conducting competition in Germany back in 2004. The Los Angeles Philharmonic had their eye on you and appointed you as their musical director in 2008. Now, when you accepted the role, you were keen to set up a music education programme like the one that you grew up in to help less privileged children.

23:38So you founded YOLA, the Youth Orchestra Los Angeles. How do you measure the success of the project? Well, that is something which I'm very proud of. In Los Angeles, it has taken for us years to really see the needs of the places and how to connect and what can inspire the children and all of that. And right now, having thousands of young people, a lot of them from the first, the second generation of YOLA, they are now in great universities. they have found amazing jobs, you know. It was a transformation, not only for them individually, but for their families. Because that is what happened in El Sistema, is how what surrounds the child changed with that person.

24:31And how does that work? What does that look like? It's very natural because it's something that you first, you have to call the attention, you know, that there is something that you belong. Like it's music, it's your culture, because culture is identity. Maestro Brevo always said that. The worst thing to be poor is to be nobody, is to be no one. When you give an instrument to a child, you are giving identity because you are giving culture to that person. You are giving an space of creativity, an space where they can create beauty through a discipline of working together. So it happened with that child that is playing in the orchestra.

25:13And then what happened when he goes to his neighborhood and what the family feels, how proud they feel, how connected they feel. Not only the families, you know, the neighbors and all of these. And it changed completely. I think the concept of art to the people. because people feel that art is something elitist, something that they don't belong. And you've done a lot of work on that to try and take the music into the communities and also to reflect their experience and their culture in your programming. Completely. And if we use it in the right way, creating that beautiful, strong, balanced space for young people, you change their life immediately.

26:00On that note, I think we'd better hear some more music. Like, Gustavo, your fifth choice today. What is it? Now we go to the great, great, great Nina Simone. There are many songs that I love by Nina Simone. But I don't know, this song is about struggling. But it's about faith. And it's something that we are missing a lot in our times. And we have to see that although we make mistakes, we always and we struggle with things we always will find a way in our faith whatever is in whatever God that you believe, whatever religious is there, especially in the one that, the faith that you have in yourself so this is called Sinerman Oh Sinerman where he gonna run to Sinerman where he gonna run to We're gonna run to All on that day Will I run to the rock Please hide me and run to the rock Please hide me and run to the rock Please hide me, Lord All on that day Put the rock right out I can hide Nina Simone and Sineman Gustavo Dudamel, one of your passions is crossing genres You've performed at the Super Bowl Halftime Show and in April this year you took the LA Phil to perform at Coachella How did that go?

27:37How was it for you? Wonderful First, you know, the Super Bowl it was a beautiful experience because of the generosity of Chris Martin which is a brother of life a good friend from Coldplay an amazing musician And he was connected with El Sistema. And then he wanted to bring some young musicians from Sistema programs. So we brought the young people from YOLA. And it was an iconic moment, I think, for the program, but for each one of them, you know, to be present on that stage, you know, together with Coldplay, with Beyoncé, with Bruno Mars. So it was kind of very special. As I grew up listening to music, you know, my grandfather was giving me one style of music, my father, my mother, my grandmother, my friends.

28:29So I was listening. I don't feel borders in music. You know, I enjoy music because it's music. And I try to do that, you know. That is why in Los Angeles we have an amazing place, which is the Hollywood Bowl, where we have the chance to play during summer for the complete summer season with many music, many classical music. But also I try to really do a lot of music with different kind of artists. Because the bowl is kind of it's more of an accessible atmosphere. People can kind of come in there. They can eat snacks. You know, it's not quite as kind of strict as a concert hall. 18 ,000 people.

29:13The atmosphere is very beautiful. And I thought, look, let's try to do this. Let's try to really mix, you know, this classical music together with a pop, folk artist. Many of the audience that came from the pop artists, they discover things. And the people that came from the Philharmonic Symphonic Music, they also discovered an artist. So it was a beautiful interaction which created a natural path for us, which arrived to Coachella. Coachella is a symbol of generation. You know, what you see there is people hungry of experience. The experience of having different music. you know, and you walk from one stage to the other and you listen and you are surrounded by the beauty of music and all of this style.