Kemi Badenoch MP, leader of the opposition

15:06Lauren Laverne:So, yes, it was very much survival of the fittest. And the thing that really helped me get through it was having a lot of family there. So I had a cousin or a second cousin in every year. It's my huge extended family. But I didn't fit in that school because I was always saying what I thought. And people say, well, you can't say that and you shouldn't be saying that. And I was so rebellious. My parents were worried because I went in with very high scores. I think I had the highest score of any girl there. And I came 14th in the class. And that was one of six classes. And when they visited me, there was a visiting weekend and I'd lost so much weight.

15:45Lauren Laverne:And they asked me what was going on. and I just said, I don't like it here. I wasn't eating as well because I didn't like the food because I wasn't fussy about food, but the food wasn't like the food I'd had at home. And so I used to give my food away in exchange for a book.

16:00Kemi Badenoch:So a lot of having to learn to adapt, you know, a lot of presumably building your resilience, but also going through some quite difficult things. How did that shape you, do you think, as the person you are now?

16:10Lauren Laverne:It made me, I'm certain this is what made me someone who finds it quite easy to make friends.

16:17Kemi Badenoch:I am interested in this Mallory Towers thing though. I mean, Enid Blyton. So growing up reading a lot of that, what else were you reading and looking at and what impressions did you have of life here?

16:26Lauren Laverne:My childhood was very BBC. Everything on telly was BBC because that's what you got. The Nigerian Television Authority didn't make many programmes. There were a few that are still very iconic and nostalgic. But I was watching Doctor Who. I think that's where my love of sci-fi came from. Some mothers do have them. So Frank Spencer and all of those characters. That's what I grew up on. You know, I went to, as I said, an Anglican primary school. It was all hymns and choral. We went to church. And my childhood was sort of the last embers of empire and the colonial era.

17:04Kemi Badenoch:Let's have some more music, Kemi Baden-Ock. This is your third choice today. What's next?

17:07Lauren Laverne:So this is a song that my father played quite frequently. It was one of his records. And my father's record collection was my music. So a lot of Motown and a lot of sort of, you know, old sort of rhythm and blues. and Sam Cook's What a Wonderful World comes to my mind when I think of my parents because I remember my dad sort of singing it and dancing in front of my mother and she just laughing and saying he was being ridiculous. It's a moment of childhood where, you know, it's happy families. My parents were best friends and just seeing them interact in that way, it's a very nostalgic song for me.

17:47Kemi Badenoch:Don't know much about history Don't know much biology I don't know much about a science book. I don't know much about the French I took. But I do know that I love you.

18:06Lauren Laverne:And I know that if you loved me too,

18:09Kemi Badenoch:what a wonderful world this would be. I don't know much about you. Sam Cooke and a wonderful world. Kemi Badenok, by the mid-90s, Nigeria was under military dictatorship. It was suspended from the Commonwealth and suffered an economic crash. What impact did that time have on you and your family?

18:29Lauren Laverne:A huge impact. Universities, of course, were protesting the government. There was a lot of activism. And so they were just closed down. My mother actually was not a fan of all of that. She wanted to get on with work. People were on strike for, you know, late payment of salaries. and then eventually the government just made the strikes permanent. So for about two years, my mother didn't get paid, which was quite tough.

18:59Kemi Badenoch:So your dad had lost his patience at this point and then your mum wasn't being paid.

19:03Lauren Laverne:Wow. OK. Yes, exactly. And we had family in the US and they were thinking, well, you can't be here. You're coming to the end of secondary school. I was a year young for secondary school. and my mother had already made me take all these exams and things so that I could think about leaving the country, but they didn't know how they could afford so much of it. It was a very, very odd time. What did you feel?

19:34Kemi Badenoch:Do you remember your feelings about it all?

19:35Lauren Laverne:Honestly, I didn't think very much of it all. When you're 15, 16, you know, it's friends, it's, you know, parties, it's school and, you know, all the different groups and gangs and who's doing what. That was what occupied my mind. I was doing very well at school. I think I did become aware of the economy then. Stuff just wasn't working.

19:58Kemi Badenoch:So it's around this point that your parents realised that because you were born in the UK, you can actually come back. You should return to Britain. So they decide that you should do that. You should go back by yourself at 16 to do your A-levels. What was your initial response when they shared the plan with you?

20:14Lauren Laverne:Well, it wasn't quite that simple. My father still felt that there must be a way to get me to the US. And I'd done SATs, got a very good result, because we couldn't afford the fees, even with scholarship offers and things like that. But my mother said that she had a friend in the UK, a very close friend of hers, who I call my aunt, and I could stay there. And they disagreed. so my father didn't want me to come to the UK because he said well we don't really have much family there you can't go somewhere without any family it'll be better if she stays in Lagos and I was the one who said well I would love to I'd love to go to London I'd love to be watching Doctor Who and all of that.

20:54Kemi Badenoch:So you stayed with a family friend in London but you had to get a job to support yourself this is when you were working in McDonald's I mean that must have been quite a lot to deal with and also quite a contrast by the sounds of it from the life that you were living at home in Lagos. Were you homesick? I mean, excited to be in a new place, sure, but you must have missed your family.

21:13Lauren Laverne:I did miss my family and it was very hard to get in touch. So there was a lot of letter writing. This is something I think is quite sad. We don't write letters anymore. I have loads of letters, which I wrote home. I did miss them, but... Could you read? So occasionally it was very expensive to call. I don't think people remember how expensive international calls were, but the homesickness was not as much as the excitement.

21:37Kemi Badenoch:Kemi Badenock, it's time to go to the music, your fourth choice today. What's next and why?

21:42Lauren Laverne:This is a hymn which I had at my wedding and it means a lot because it reminds me of my mother and she heard it. She'd never heard it before and she said, what is this hymn? I love it. And I told her that it was one that I'd heard as a teenager in the church that I went to in Wimbledon and I thought it was absolutely beautiful And even though it wasn't one that we sang in my school choirs, it's one that I just think has a certain piece about it. And it also reminds me of my mother because she always said, be calm, be still. She didn't like flappiness. She didn't like people who got overly emotional, hysterical, no shouting.

22:26Lauren Laverne:And she worked very hard to try and make me somebody who would just behave properly. And so this song...

22:31Kemi Badenoch:How successful was she?

22:33Lauren Laverne:Mostly successful. I think I still do a bit of shouting. usually are children who aren't picking up their shoes and leaving them in the hallway or women to be quiet when I'm on a work call. But yes, this song reminds me of my mother. Be still for the presence of the Lord The Holy One is here Come bow before him With reverence and fear In him the sin is found

23:17Kemi Badenoch:Ala Jones singing Be Still in the Presence of the Lord with the English Session Orchestra. Kemi Badenok, both your parents were medics, as you've described, your mother eventually becoming a professor of medicine. Did you ever want to follow in their footsteps?

23:33Lauren Laverne:It didn't occur to me not to, certainly not at the beginning. But actually, once I started sort of working and doing other things, I was having doubts. And as it happened, engineering was something that I was much better suited to.

23:48Kemi Badenoch:There you were doing your A-levels, flipping burgers, all of that. You took a year out after that and worked as an apprentice. What were you doing?

23:57Lauren Laverne:I worked for a firm of architects called Hunt Thompson Associates. And it was brilliant. I was a one-woman IT department. I learned how to fix computers. And it's so funny, I did two degrees, you know, engineering and law. But the stuff I remember the most is the stuff that I did during my apprenticeship. Really? What kind of thing? I can still put a computer together and take it apart. And whenever there is any technical issue in the house, I'm the person to fix it.

24:23Kemi Badenoch:So you then decided to go and study computer science engineering at Sussex University. How did you get on there?

24:30Lauren Laverne:The course was difficult. The computer science aspects I found easy. I'd been coding since I was seven because my father had bought me a ZX81. I knew how to code from a very young age. The engineering side was hard.

24:43Kemi Badenoch:Sussex is seen as a very liberal university, Kemi. You've said that you found your own views quite at odds with the other students around you. Tell me about that.

24:51Lauren Laverne:Well, I think by this time, I have become a conservative. I just don't know it. I don't know that I'm political. But I'm exposed to a particular type of left wing ideology that I really don't like. It's very patronising. You know, I would listen to students talk about Africa from a place of ignorance, but also superiority. You know, we need to help the Africans and we have to stop them. There were big campaigns about stopping people from buying powdered milk from Nestle. And I said, a lot of those women that you're trying to stop have AIDS. We're coming off the tail of the big AIDS epidemic, especially in Southern Africa.

25:30Lauren Laverne:They can't feed their babies with breast milk. What's the matter with you? They were so obsessed with fighting the corporation that they couldn't actually see who was needing these things and who was being harmed. Of course, people who don't have money aren't going to spend it on powdered milk if they can feed the child themselves. And it was that sort of thing.

25:50Kemi Badenoch:Let's have some more music, Cemi Bader-Nock. Your fifth choice. What is it?

25:54Lauren Laverne:I'm not sure it qualifies as a song, but it's Everybody's Free to Wear Sunscreen by Baz Luhrmann. And it's a piece of advice set to a music soundtrack, I think is what I would say. And I love it because my apprenticeship finished in 1999 and I started university in 1999. So that year in industry that I took, we had this residential course and we were the class of 99. And the song starts, ladies and gentlemen of the class of 99. And it gives all of this advice, which I think even now is so relevant. It's relevant to politics. You know, don't waste your time on jealousy. Sometimes you're ahead. Sometimes you're behind.

26:33Lauren Laverne:In the end, the race is long. It's only with yourself. I think many politicians should listen to that. And it's also very sympathetic to politicians. It says, you know, accept certain inalienable truths. Prices will rise, politicians will philander and you too will get old. And I always thought about that as being very helpful in thinking about life going quickly. I will get all to what do I want? Be nice to your siblings, which I think I've always tried to do. I hope they listen to it and they can see I've tried my best. I will dispense this advice now. Enjoy the power and beauty of your youth.

27:15Lauren Laverne:Oh, never mind. You will not understand the power and beauty of your youth until they've faded.

27:21Kemi Badenoch:But trust me, in 20 years, you look back at photos of yourself and recall in a way you can't grasp now how much possibility lay before you and how fabulous you really looked.

27:33Lauren Laverne:You are not as fat as you imagine.

27:37Kemi Badenoch:Baz Luhrmann, everybody's free to wear sunscreen. So, Kemi Bader-Nock, your career post-uni was going well. You were working in IT for a bank doing a law degree part time. When did you make the switch into politics and why did you do it?

27:52Lauren Laverne:Much later. So I had a career as a systems analyst in banking. I wasn't a frontline banker. I was working on things like online mobile banking, making sure that the cash came out of your cash machine when you put your card in. and I became interested in politics as an endeavour in 2005 when I joined the party just because I thought it would be a fun thing to do. We just had an election, Labour's won. I know I'm not a Labour person. I think I'm Conservative. All my friends have gone all over the world, all over the country post-uni. So this might be a fun thing to do. and I joined the Conservative Party for the party aspect of it, socialising, drinks, hanging out with other young people and it was amazing because that's where I met my husband.

28:48Kemi Badenoch:So this is Hamish, join for the party, stay for the policy, that's what happens here. So what do you think he saw in you?

28:53Lauren Laverne:You said he saw something in you. So I met him, this is seven years later when we end up getting married but about four or five years after I'm standing for election, a no-hoper, which I thought I had plenty of hope, Dulwich and Weston Ward, which is mostly Brixton. But I thought, you know, I can convince people, I can persuade them. And he joined the party after me, certainly joined the local party after me. We just got on and we became friends. And he was just always there. He was always there. whenever I needed anything he was always there and and he still is now he's always supportive has always been by my side he is my inspiration there's no way I could have done any of this without him.

29:41Kemi Badenoch:Kemi Baden-Op you were selected for Saffron Walden at the last minute in 2017 how did you go about convincing a rural Essex community that you were the right fit for them?

29:52Lauren Laverne:By being myself, I didn't think I would get it. I thought I have one friend in Saffron Walden. I've been there a couple of times for random reasons. My seat of Wimbledon already has a Conservative MP. I just need somewhere else to adopt me somewhere that likes the cut of my jib. But because I didn't think I'd get it, I think I was more relaxed. And they tell me that I was funny. I was very honest. I wasn't trying to be something I wasn't. You know, I started off by saying I could pretend that my family has been here since, you know, the Battle of Hastings, but I don't think anyone here would believe me.

30:26Lauren Laverne:And they just burst out laughing. And they said later on that, yeah, this is someone who's just herself. And Essex is like that. The seat is now called Northwest Essex. I love that county. It's sort of, Essex is very much my personality. I call myself an Essex girl. A lot of the people there are people who, you know, had to work very, very hard and then became successful. They have high expectations and they're real. They're honest. And it's great.

30:57Kemi Badenoch:You mentioned high expectations. And of course, you know, being elected and becoming an MP does mean that, you know, the press then start to go through everything that you've said and done in the past with a fine tooth comb. You did once describe hacking Harriet Harman's website as a prank in 2008. That's before you were an MP as your naughtiest moment. Do you regret doing that now? I don't regret telling people.

31:19Lauren Laverne:Why did you tell people? Well, because it's the truth. So I'm not one of those politicians who hides what they did and pretends that, you know, they were always a goody two shoes. Someone said, what's the naughtiest thing you ever did? And I said, actually, I did do this thing, which was not good. No one knew about it. So it wasn't something that I'd been caught doing. You know, I'm not going to leave papers on a photocopier or get caught. And it was a prank. It was an accidental one. It wasn't deliberate. I clicked on something on her website. I can't remember how or why I was on there. It must have been something to do with that because I lived in the area where she lived.

31:52Lauren Laverne:And it asked for a username and password. I thought, why is it asking me for a username and password? I just put her name in. It let me into the back end. And of course, you know, understanding how websites work. And so I thought this is too good to be true. So I put a poster of Boris Johnson on Harriet's website saying Vote Boris and a sort of comical resignation letter. We just had, there'd been a conservative to Labour defection in 2007. And I used that as the template. So it was quite topical at the time, basically using this man, Quentin Davies' letter and pretending that Harriet was leaving the Labour Party.

32:29Lauren Laverne:It was quite obviously a joke along with the Vote Boris thing. And I thought it was pretty funny. And then when I became an MP, and then you start seeing all the stupid things that people said, it's like, this is just tedious and exhausting. And I got asked, you know, what was the naughtiest thing? And that was on my mind. I thought I should tell people actually that I did this. And what surprised me was the level of sort of uproar. How could you have done this? You should be in prison. So, well, no, it was a summary offence at the time. It's like speeding. No, I wouldn't have gone to prison. And I thought that people would have been more interested in the honesty.

33:04Lauren Laverne:But it was, especially the left at the time was really looking for a way to catch me out. And I raised an eyebrow at it. They reported me to Essex police. I think they laughed it off. Harriet laughed it off as well. You know, I did apologise to her. She said, I can't even remember this happened. But it was an interesting reaction. And a reminder that sometimes as politicians, you don't get forgiven for telling the truth. But also it's why many politicians don't tell the truth because they're scared of how people will react. I'm not scared of how people will react. Some people will listen and not agree, but at least they know what I think and why I think.

33:44Lauren Laverne:And that's where I want to be. I can't win everybody. I can't get everybody to agree with me, but at least I want people who are listening to me to say, well, I don't agree with that, but I understand it. And I know why she thinks that and what she's trying to do.

33:55Kemi Badenoch:Kemi Badenot, we've got to make time to go to the music it's time for your sixth choice today tell me about this next track

34:01Lauren Laverne:Love is All Around by Wet Wet Wet is a 90s song that I really love and which my husband also really loved and so we picked it for our wedding as our first dance and I think it is, it's very romantic you know, it talks about there's no beginning there'll be no end to the love you know, I love you, I always will and that is what I would want to say to my husband, that you know I love you, I always will. He's an amazing man and so this one's for him. Oh yes it is So if you really love me Come on and let it show

34:49You know I love you

34:52Kemi Badenoch:I always will. My mind's made up by the way that I feel. Wet, wet, wet, and love is all around for your husband Hamish, Kemi Badenoch. So, Kemi, when you were elected leader of the Conservatives, you became the first black person to lead a major political party in the UK. How do you feel about that historic achievement?

35:17Lauren Laverne:I think it's nice to have something like that. But for me, the real achievement is not being the first to do something. It's being the best. Achievement is about delivering, not just about the first to get to the end of the finish line. So I still feel like I've got a lot to do and to show. And what I would want to say to young girls who look like me is that don't spend the time worrying about the obstacles. My father used to tell me that 80 % of what happens to you is down to you and only 20 % is down to other people. And of course, there will be obstacles. Of course, there'll be people who are prejudiced against you.

35:59Lauren Laverne:whoever you are, whatever you look like, of course, there'll be people who will discriminate. But most people in our country are not like that, because if they were, I wouldn't be sitting here in this position.

36:10Kemi Badenoch:You have said, Kimmy, that you dislike identity politics and that it's dangerous for policymaking.

36:16Lauren Laverne:Why? Many reasons. But I grew up in a place that was all about identity politics. People think identity politics is skin colour, but you can all look the same and have lots of different identities. You only need to look at a place like Northern Ireland, where it is identity politics, we don't call it that. But you ask people to retreat into groups, into tribes, rather than find the thing that they have in common. Identity politics is a recipe for conflict. And many people don't see it because they see themselves as trying to help a specific group. But we need to bring groups together. And that is why talking about having a British identity is very important for me, that if we start splintering off into lots of different subgroups, I think it becomes harder.

37:00Lauren Laverne:And I think we're seeing a lot more of that.

37:01Kemi Badenoch:Yes, you've said modern Britain is a multiracial country, but we must never become a multicultural one. What do you mean by that? And is it something you still believe? Yes, I think a lot of people think of culture as the food you eat and the

37:15Lauren Laverne:clothes you wear, the music you listen to. And yes, that is part of it. But for me, culture is about standards, norms, behaviours. What is acceptable? And I think that if we have lots of different competing cultures where things that I think are unacceptable become acceptable, we will change the very nature of our society. If we allow people who think intolerance is fine just to flourish, then we will become an intolerant society and that there needs to be limits to what we tolerate in order for us to stay cohesive. That's something I really believe because I've seen countries which are multicultural in the sense that I'm talking about actually just fragment and break into conflict.

37:58Lauren Laverne:So you don't think Britain is multicultural now? Not in a meaningful sense. You know, going out for a curry is not multiculturalism. People are talking about food tastes. Deciding on the role of women and what their rights are, that's a different culture. The role of religion in the way that government works, that's culture. It's standards, norms, behaviours, practices. It's not just I like to eat this and I like to wear that. How you treat people, how you behave, queuing. That's a cultural thing. Some people don't think you need to queue. We should queue. That's not something I want to see. Lots of different things coming about.

38:34Lauren Laverne:And I think it's quite important because if you allow a free-for-all and let everybody do whatever everybody wants to do without something that we all have to unite us, I think we will fragment. And that's something I don't want to see.

38:49Kemi Badenoch:But Britain has been spoken about as a multicultural society and a very successful one for decades.

38:55Lauren Laverne:Yes, and I think many people who do that confuse being a multiracial country with being a multicultural country. It's not the same thing. You can have a country where people all look the same and they have different cultures. You can have a country where people have one culture and they look different. And I think that we actually need to raise the level of debate beyond the very simplistic notions which we've had, because those simplistic notions have caused a lot of problems where, you know, I look at the work we've done on grooming gangs, for instance, where the states, lots of states functions turned a blind eye because they thought, well, we don't need to worry about that.

39:34Lauren Laverne:That's a different culture. We're not getting involved. I think it causes a lot of problems.

39:38Kemi Badenoch:But this is why we have legislation, isn't it? I mean, that was law breaking that was going on there. And we have equalities law, we have things that are criminal acts. We already have legislation covering many of those things, don't we?

39:49Lauren Laverne:Yes, but legislation doesn't cover norms and practices and behaviour. The reason why people from all over the world come to the UK is not just so that they can earn a living. It's because there is something here that other people don't have. You look at what's happening in Iran. That's a totally different culture. People want freedom, the freedom to live your life as you choose. Yes, but not to impact on other people's lives. There are some cultures where control over the lives of others is embedded in the behaviours. That's something I'm very much against. I'm about freedom.

40:19Kemi Badenoch:Kemi, it's time for some more music, your seventh choice to do.

40:22Lauren Laverne:What have you got for us next? The car journeys to the constituency are long and all of us are in the car. Because of the busy job I have, it is one of the times when we're all together and there are no interruptions. And the children have shaped my musical taste in the same way that my parents have. And Carry You Home by Alex Warren is the song of the moment. And I think it's a great song. We play a game in the car called the DJ game. This is to stop them going on screens. I'm very strict with them about their screen habits, although probably not strict enough. So you play the DJ game, everybody has to pick a song they like.

40:58Lauren Laverne:And this song came up again and again. And I loved it.

41:32Kemi Badenoch:Alex Warren and carry you home. Kemi Baden-Ock, in your maiden speech, you compared politics to sex, saying if it's not messy, you're not doing it right. Do you still stand by that Woody Allen quote?

41:43Lauren Laverne:Yes, yes, I do. Politics is not simple. It's not straightforward. It's very complex. It is very messy. There are highs, there are lows. And it's messy because it's people. You're dealing with people. You're dealing with people's lives. Trust in politics is something that has degraded to such low levels. And I think the only way you can win trust back is by being honest, showing, not just telling what kind of person you are. I'm very proud of the team that I have, the Shadow Cabinet, lots of great people. Some of the smartest people that I have ever met are in the Conservative Party today. And that is fantastic.

42:24Lauren Laverne:I could have done other things that would have given me an easier life. But it is worrying about the future and wanting to give a future to young people in particular, not just my kids, but other people's children as well, because I remember what it was like. You know, I've spoken so much about the 80s and 90s. I never worried about whether I'd get a job. I never worried about, you know, what life would be like. It was always going to be fine. And I am despondent when I hear young people speaking as if the world is going to end before they even get a start. and I want them to know that there are people out there who are working very hard to make sure that we can give them that brighter future.

43:00Kemi Badenoch:So your dad in particular had wanted you to go into medicine. I know you lost him four years ago, so he didn't get to see you become leader, but he did see you become an MP. What did he think of that and what does your mum think of where you are now?

43:13Lauren Laverne:I don't think that I could ever have stood in that 2022 leadership contest that propelled me into cabinet if he hadn't died. He died that year, just a few months before. And it felt like the worst thing that could ever happen to me had already happened. So he told me before he died, I know you're going to go all the way. And he said something. He said that my brother, sister and I were his greatest achievements. And I get emotional thinking about it because he knew he was dying by this point. My father died of brain cancer. My mother, on the other hand, when my father was proud of me going into politics, My mother was tearing her hair out.

43:53Lauren Laverne:She's like, why would you do this? You're working in banking, you've got a good job, you're making money. Why do you want to go into this horrible career? Because for her, politicians were not good people. She had a very, very dim view of politicians thinking they're all out for themselves, you know, especially in Nigeria, that there was too much corruption. And so I think part of what I'm trying to do now in politics is prove to her that politicians can be good people. You know, your daughter is one and she is proud in a different way.

44:22Kemi Badenoch:Kemi Badenok, it is almost time for me to cast you away to the island, a very solitary existence. How do you think you'll cope with that? And will you miss the hurly-burly of politics?

44:32Lauren Laverne:I would miss the hurly-burly, but I'm also very happy in my own company. and I think being on a desert island with some peace and quiet and my phone not ringing would actually, sometimes in politics, it sounds like a dream, it would be quite hot but I think I'd get tired of it very quickly.

44:51Kemi Badenoch:Well, before we send you there, we'll let you choose one more track today. Your final choice, what is it?

44:57Lauren Laverne:My final choice is also from the musical Hamilton, which is a very political musical, but it is Dear Theodosia And it is where Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr sing to their children, Theodosia and Philip. And they're talking about how they are in politics for them, which is how I feel. And they talk about all the wonderful things they're going to do. And of course, in reality, we know that things don't end well for either of those children. They both die before their parents in terrible circumstances. And there is a tragedy in such a beautiful song. hearing these parents' hopes and aspirations and knowing what is to come.

45:40Lauren Laverne:And I find it so emotional. And I think also because one of the worst things that can happen to any of us is to lose our children. I think it's every parent's nightmare. It's certainly my nightmare. So it touches that place, that spooky place, that place where your fears are kept. It touches that bit. It is a tragedy, but it's also a song of hope. And it's a song that explains why many of us who go into politics, even though it is a crazy career, do what we do. And it is for our kids.

46:31Someday, someday, yeah, you'll blow us all away.

46:38Kemi Badenoch:Dear Theodosia, from the original Broadway cast recording of Hamilton, performed by Leslie Odom Jr. and Lin-Manuel Miranda. Kemi Bader-Nock, it is time to cast you away. With the books, of course, I'll give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and you can take another book of your choice. What will you go for?

46:55Lauren Laverne:Vanity Fair by William Minkley-Stackery. And it is because it is the one book of fiction that I have read twice. I tend to read nonfiction more than once, but fiction I read and I put aside. But it was such a great book. What took you back to it? I think I read it twice, once at university and once just after. And it was so funny. There is a lot of comedy in it and a lot of tragedy. and there is something about the character of Becky Sharp which resonates. I understand why she's doing what she's doing initially. You know, she's aspirational. She's born into circumstances she wants to change. The only option is to marry her way out of it.

47:36Lauren Laverne:And then she doesn't stop and she goes crazy and she starts doing these terrible things. And I remember the first time reading it thinking, Becky, what are you doing? This is a disaster. Knowing when to stop, quit while you're ahead, I think is a lesson that many people should learn. And I wish Becky Sharp had learned to quit while she was ahead.

47:54Kemi Badenoch:You can also have a luxury item. What will that be?

47:58Lauren Laverne:So I struggled with this one. I was initially thinking about a hot water bottle, but it's already hot on the island. It would be the 22 movies of the Marvel Cinematic Universe Infinity Saga. Oh, my. Yes, this is, I think they're absolutely brilliant. This is back to the sci-fi, is it? Yes, this is back to the sci-fi, back to the fantasy. good triumphing over evil, sacrifice duty. The heroes often lose something along the way, if not family or parents. Doctor Strange, who's my favourite, loses the use of his hands. I think it would be long enough for people to rescue me. By the time I'd finished watching, yes, hopefully somebody would have turned up.

48:36Kemi Badenoch:Doctor Strange is your favourite. What's his superpower? Time travel. Is that why he's your favourite?

48:42Lauren Laverne:Yes, because you can go back and do it again, which is something that we never get to do in life. You do it and then it's done.

48:50Kemi Badenoch:What would you go back and change if you had that power?

48:52Lauren Laverne:Probably nothing in my life because so much of what's happened to me has made me the person that I am. I would go back and warn other people, don't do this because this is what's going to happen. And being able to give warnings. He's also got a really good cloak.

49:07Kemi Badenoch:All right, that luxury is yours. Finally, which one of the eight tracks that you've shared with us today would you rush to save if there was only time to rescue one?

49:15Lauren Laverne:Don't stop till you get enough. Reminds me of my family, young and old, even my children listen to it. And also the message, don't stop till you get enough, would probably encourage me to do everything I could to get off the island as well.

49:29Kemi Badenoch:Kemi Badenok, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs. Thank you.

49:45Kemi Badenoch:I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Kemi Badenoch. We've cast away many politicians to our desert island, including Sakeir Starmer, Nicholas Sturgeon, Sir Vince Cable, Theresa May, Ed Miliband and Margaret Thatcher. They're all available to listen to on BBC Sounds. The production coordinator for today's programme was Susie Roilance, the content editor was Mugabe Turia and the producer was Sarah Taylor. Next time, my guest will be the Astronomer Royal, Professor Michelle Doherty. I do hope you'll join us.

50:21If journalism is the first draft of history, what happens if that draft turns out to be flawed?

50:28Kemi Badenoch:In 1999, four apartment buildings were blown up in Russia, hundreds killed. But 25 years on, we still don't know for sure who did it. It's a mystery that sparked chilling theories. Because these bombs, they're part of the origin story of one of the most powerful men in the world. Vladimir Putin. I'm Helena Merriman, and in a new BBC series, I'm talking to the reporters who first covered this story. What did they miss first time round? The History Bureau, Putin and the apartment bombs. Listen first on BBC Sounds.