Ronnie Wood, musician

0:00Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast from BBC Radio 4. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury, that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music's shorter than on the original broadcast, but you can find a version with longer music tracks on BBC Sounds. Listeners will also get access to episodes 28 days earlier than everyone else. I hope you enjoy listening.

0:47My cast away this week is the musician and artist Ronnie Wood. For over 40 years, he's brought his skills as a guitarist, a songwriter and occasionally as a diplomat to one of rock's greatest bands, the Rolling Stones. His music career goes back even further, however, beginning when he was still in his teens and started a band with his school friends. In 1967, he joined the Jeff Beck Group and a couple of classic albums later left to form The Faces with his mate Rod Stewart. As he puts it, back then two blokes with the same haircut couldn't escape each other for long. He joined The Stones in 1975.

1:24His role as Mick and Keith's little brother was a case of art imitating life. He grew up as the youngest of three and his real-life big brothers introduced him to jazz and blues. He followed them to art school too, sparking a lifelong love of painting, a second career which would run in tandem with his work as a musician. He says, number one is learn to laugh at yourself, because if you don't know how to do that, you're in schtuck, mate. Ronnie Wood, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Hi, nice to be here. Such an honour to be here. Thank you for joining us, Ronnie. So, listen, let's start with music.

1:57There's lots to talk about. but you're a multi-instrumentalist, Ronnie, as well as the guitar. You've taught yourself the drums, trumpets, pedal steel, harmonica, sax, cornet, clarinet, banjo, the list goes on. What is it that keeps you experimenting? If you haven't got something to aim for, you're in trouble. You know, you've got to keep the creative spirit going. In my book, you've got to keep creating and putting things into action. But I started on the drums. My brother Ted used to play the drums, and he had his kit underneath the stairs. And when my parents were at work, and I was at home, either on leave or doing a dodge from school, I'd get the drums out and play all afternoon, pack them away before anybody got back.

2:48Not that they didn't mind me playing, it's just that they didn't know that I did this while they were out. Anyway, the neighbours said, There was an awful crash and banging coming from the house all afternoon, Mrs Wood. And they said, was that you, Ronnie? I said, no, I had nothing to do with it. You're completely self-taught, so can you read music? Yeah, I can, to a point. And then I gave up and I thought, no, I don't want to know every night I'm playing. It takes the element of ad-lib out of it, you know, an inventiveness, I think. And what about your fellow students? what did they make of your musical experiments over the years?

3:29I know Charlie let you have a good go on his drums once, caught you at it. Well, he caught me playing on a song called Sleep Tonight and he tried it when he came in and he said, I can't do as good as you, Ronnie, you get back on the drums, you know. So I played on that song. It's pretty good drums, even if I say it myself. Ronnie, you've been part of some incredible bands, as well as the Stones, obviously the Faces, you know, Jeff Beck Group. How do you see your role when you're on stage and, you know, you're working with other people in that way? I always take pride in helping the main, you know, the head boy, whether it be Rod Stewart or Mick Jagger up the front there.

4:13It's nice to make them feel confident by having a powerhouse behind them that's not going to mess up, you know, if you can help it. And, you know, there's a lot of humour involved in the music as well. If there's a bum note, we always blame the other guy, you know. And there's a lot of friendly camaraderie that goes on. Tell us about disc number one. What have you chosen? Well, when I was a little boy in grey flannels, about seven, my brothers, they had a back room and all of their art school friends would come and we'd have a room full of instruments and so it was like Sandra's workshop for me in the back room.

4:56So you were quite a bit younger than your brothers, weren't you? Oh, yeah. So I'm imagining you... Eight years and ten years older than me. So you're kind of peeking through the hole, looking at what's going on. Yeah, well, they let me in because they knew they could see something in me that was a spark, you know, I could play the kazoo or the washboard, my first instrument actually with them. Anyway, the guitar section was Jim Willis on banjo and Lawrence Sheaf, who is still alive. He's now a professor in America. And he played, note for note, this first choice of mine, which is Big Bill Brunsey, the guitar shuffle.

5:34And I would watch him totally glued to his approach. And he would draw out the numbers on the strings, on the diagram, where to put your fingers. and that's how I first started to play the guitar. But anyway, he would play this song, Guitar Shuffle, and it's very earthy and this man, Brunzi, was just an inspiration.

6:31Big Bill Brunzi and Guitar Shuffle. Ronnie Wood, I'm watching your fingers go as you're listening to that. You're still playing it now. Yeah, it's a kind of a background to my life and I would suggest to any aspiring new guitar player that they get hold of that. And the great thing throughout my whole career is I still don't know that song perfectly myself. You know, I'm still learning. And I love that. Absolutely. So, Ronnie, let's go back to the beginning. You were born in 1947 and brought up in the West London suburb of Eusley. So your parents, Archie and Lizzie, they had an interesting background, both born into the canal boat community, what would have been called bargees, those families going back generations.

7:14what did they tell you about growing up themselves and their upbringing? Well as you can imagine it was very hard for them transporting wood and they used to call me young timber and my dad timber, come on oh timber I do remember going on my dad's boat being down in their little cabin and my first experience of condensed milk That was really something that went hand in hand on going on the boat. And my brothers and I were the first ones to be born on dry land since the 17th century. That's as far back as I could trace them. And I have a boat to this day. I have one called the Grandad Dyer, which is my mum's side of the family, the Dyers.

8:04Yeah, it's called the Grandad Dyer, your father's yacht. because if I stepped out of line, my dad would always say to me, where do you think you are on your father's yacht? And the one down here I have on the Grand Union and Regent's Canal is the Muddy Waters. Oh, fantastic. That brings everything together. So your parents were both born on boats separately. Did the families know each other or were they part of the same circle? Very tight-knit community on the water and they all drank to excess. everyone did it and everyone smoked to excess that's how I grew up among that and my dad he was always in the pub he was never there when he was there he was fantastic but he didn't realise his absence caused so much disruption in family and in my head

9:01But there's nothing really bad about it. And my dad used to bring this incredible collection of people home, like rag and bone men, pig bin men, different walks of life from the pub. My mum didn't really take very kindly to it. She'd come down and throw them out, you know, because they'd all be stretched over the furniture down in the living room, you know. So your house was the party house at the weekends, was it? Yeah, well, that was down to Dad, you know. If I could find him, he was always asleep down in the runner beans or down in the cabbages. Vegetable patch outside. Yeah, in the garden.

9:43Or other people's gardens we used to find him in as well. So you lived in a council house, number eight Whitehorn Avenue, the party house at the weekends, and I think it had a crack down the middle of it. Was it in the wall? Your mum had a theory about it. Right down the centre of the house, there was a crack. Because we used to have a piano wedged by the front door near the stairs into the living room and people would come underneath and over the piano to get in that room. And the more crowded the place got, everyone was singing. Everyone would bring a barrel or a keg or something. and there'd be us rocking in the back room and Dad playing his harmonica and his different music and telling stories and jokes.

10:33He was a great music hall type man, you know. What was your mum's theory about the crack in the house? Where did she say it came from? She'd say, oh, Ron, I think we just went over the top just a few too many times, you know. All right, Ronnie, it's time for your second piece of music, disc number two. Tell us what we're going to hear next. Oh, you're going to hear a very inspirational, fantastic track by Jimmy Reed. Shame, shame, shame. Art bought that home when it was terribly difficult to get American songs on disc. In fact, I've got a quick story about Jimmy Reed because when I was in Chicago, Buddy Guy, one of my inspirational guitar players he had a club called Legends well he still does in Chicago and I said to him did you ever meet Jimmy Reid buddy and he said well I've got a funny story man he said I was in bed one night and they rang up from the club and they said come down come down Jimmy Reid's here and he went what he said I got out of bed put my clothes on and I ran out of the house and they said come in the side door you know and he ran there and tripped over at the side of the road, it was a bundle, you know, he ran up the stairs.

11:51They said, where's Jimmy Reid? They said, the thing he just tripped over, that was Jimmy. So he was happily oblivious in the go. Oh, my goodness. Here it is. Shame, shame, shame. Well, I try to tell you, baby, Run, make no sense. No, you got me, baby Up against this face And ain't that shame, shame, shame Shame, shame, the way you do

12:31Well, it's the shame, shame, shame Shame, shame, shame Jimmy Reid, a harmonica player, Ronnie Like your dad and like you, too You always carry a harmonica Yeah. I'll put one along this one.

12:51God love if you want it, babe. God love if you want it, babe.

13:10We can rock all the time. We can rock all the time. Yeah. Oh, love it, Ronnie, what a treat. My dad always had one in his top pocket. Yeah, well, it's good to keep yourself busy, isn't it? And it sounds like you needed to, because you were a ball of energy when you were a kid, so, I mean, no change there. How did your mum keep an eye on you? Well, the best she could, really. My brothers would often send me to get a bottle of lemonade or a bottle of beer or something, so that they could be alone with their girlfriends. They'd just keep you busy. And I'd pretend I was an Olympic runner. I'd be back in, like, three minutes.

13:49And we'd go, oh, no, he's back already. But, yeah, I was a runner, you know. I ran everywhere. But, you know, that's what we did in them days. Just what was in the air was excitement, you know. It wasn't football and music and painting and girls, you know. It was so much fun. all this new music coming home as well. And music was a big part of your early life. What were your first memories of it? When did you first become aware of it? Oh, my brothers were, as I said, eight years and ten years older. Ted, the jazz fanatic, he was a purist. And Ted played right to the end of his life with a band called Colin Kingwell and Jazz Bandits.

14:39and he was also in a band called The Temperance Seven. There were a bunch of fantastic characters in Cephas Howard and all people like that in the band and I remember he used to bring them home. And then you had Art who had a very different outlook, didn't he? His music taste was quite different. Yeah, he was R &B and blues and Art had the Artwoods and he was also playing with Alex's Corner and Sewell Davis and Long John Baudry, all of the early blues incorporated. I'd be immediately thrown in with the big boys, you know, because I was always the young one. Yeah, you were always kind of... And I'm still the young one in the Stones.

15:20And it sounds like, you know, because of them, you had a ready-made set of instruments that you could learn to play and you made your debut performing in Ted's band when I think you were nine. Tell me about it. Yeah, the local cinema, the Marlborough, yeah. Between two Tommy Steele films, there was a live band between movies, you know, and there was me on the washboard, you know. So it was a skiffle band. That was my first experience of butterflies in the tummy, you know, for nerves. Yeah. And once I got over that, I thought, this sounds like a really good job, I'm going to pursue this. So you like that feeling of being in front of an audience?

16:02Yeah Rod used to say open the fridge door and I burst into song And Art and Ted were the ones who chipped in to buy your first guitar what do you remember about that? There was this guy called Daisy Hayes who gave me my first guitar and I thought he'd given it to me but he said I got called up to National Service I've got to have it back and my brothers saved up to get me one on the hire purchase my parents were the guarantors and it was a Rogers guitar and I played that in The Birds Did you and your brothers ever play together? Oh yeah We had a band called The Quiet Melon The Quiet Melon? Yeah, Art said It's a harmless name isn't it Ronnie?

16:48He said Can you imagine a quiet melon? And I said Yeah, it's a very passive name isn't it Art? And he said I think we'll settle for that There's a bunch of lunatics in this band. How did they feel about you hitting the big time? Oh, they were so proud of me. My dad used to call me Ronnie Wood of the Rolling Stones in the pub. He introduced me. They were so proud. And Ted and I knew that I was flying the flag for the whole family. You know, they were going, if we can't do it, Ronnie's doing it for us. Let's have some more music from your discs today. Yes, we've got to have Smokestack Lightning from Howling Wolf.

17:28Oh, we do. Tell us about this one. Well, my brother used to back him up when he came to England. He was kind of frightened by him because he was such a massive guy. And one time Art said to him, because he used to like his whiskey, he picked him up by the scruff of the neck and lifted him off the floor and he said, get me a double whiskey. And Art said, OK, Mr. Wolf.

18:24Oh, tell me, baby Howling Wolf and Smokestack Lightning. So your brothers were creative, as we've heard, Ronnie, but I think your mum was too, Lizzie. She used to make these crinoline ladies on glass. Yeah, but she was an amazing crochet and knitter, and she was amazing with her hands. So I think that is her contribution to the draftsmanship and penmanship, because I used to write for the school as well in italics. I used to do all the open days and the awards at school. So when did the drawing come in? When did he start drawing? When I was about three or four. I mean, the earliest memory was about four, because my brothers, you know, during the war, they were down in the air raid shelters with no TV or any entertainment, so they would draw.

19:24And they became very prolific at it and became draftsmen and commercial artists. And it's to draw for the daily papers. And your talent as a young artist was spotted quite soon, wasn't it, at school? I was a TV star because I was on a show called Sketch Club with Adrian Hill on the BBC. And it was on every Friday night. And I used to make pictures being shown. And this one from Yordlewood from Eusley. Oh, wow. And I actually won a few times. And he invited me to be a special guest artist in St Albans at his exhibition. So I went there and met him and made the local papers. And it was like, wow, this is a dream.

20:07What was your winning picture? It was my view of the reaction of a cinema crowd watching a horror film. So from the actual screen, looking out into the audience and all of the different movements and reactions from the audience. What a fantastic idea. No wonder you won. In 1963, then, you followed your artistic interests and went to study art at Ealing College of Art. following in the footsteps of your big brothers. What did your parents think of the three of you going to art school? Oh, yeah, they were so proud. My mum came along and she went to the headmaster's office and they said, oh, you must be the mother of the artist.

20:54And so she was very proud. So, Ronnie, it was around this time, 1964, that you went to see a band called The Rolling Stones play at the Richmond Jazz and Blues Festival. What did you think of them? There was this tent that was rocking like an elephant and I got attracted to it and I went in and it was the Stones. And I thought, that's the band for me. I'm going to be in that band. I was the last one out of the tent as well. Even then, how old were you? About 15, 16. You know, I think the last song that they played when I went to the live gig was Bye Bye Johnny, a Chuck Berry standard, and the whole audience was singing along with them.

21:35I said, bye, bye, bye, bye. And it was fantastic, the atmosphere. The tent started rocking again. I don't think it ever stopped. Ronnie, let's go to the music. It's your fourth choice today. I'm dying to hear what you've got for us next. What's diss number four? I can't be on the radio without playing you Muddy Waters. I want you to listen to this song and think of me in the Jeff Beck group because we played attacking blues and I was playing bass at the time. And Led Zeppelin were also forming and they would come and watch the Jeff Beck group. And this song was an important kind of link that was an essence of what we were all trying to say.

22:22This kind of feel that Muddy Waters is conveying on this song called You Need Love.

22:37You've got yawning and I've got funny Baby, you look so sweet and cunning Baby, way down inside Woman, you need love Woman, you need love You've got to have some love Muddy Waters and You Need Love of a key influence on your work, Ronnie Wood, with the Jeff Beck Group. So let's talk about that. In 1967, you joined with Jeff and vocalist Rod Stewart. Now, you'd met Rod a couple of years before, I think. How did the two of you meet initially? We met in Wardour Street in a pub called the Intrepid Fox. Anyway, he came in wearing this Coco the Clown suit, you know, and it was brown and yellow and all these cubes and checks.

23:31and it was mad. His hair was rod hair, even more exaggerated. And he spotted me and came up and he went, hello, face! And I went, hello, face! Little did we know a few years later, we'd be in the faces together. And what were your relationships like with the other bands back then who were all coming up? There was a wonderful stream of encouragement going from whichever band it was, whether it was the animals or the yardbirds or the pretty things or Hendrix. I remember when Jimmy first came to London, he played this place called the Speakeasy in Margaret Street, around the back of Oxford Street there.

24:15And we used to sit there and I'd have a pepper steak and Jimmy would come after a gig and he'd say, I think we did all right tonight. He said, but my voice is terrible. I said, Jimmy, the way you play guitar, I don't think you should worry about your voice. By 1969, the Jeff Beck Group was over and you and Rod joined Small Faces members, Ronnie Lane, Kenny Jones and Ian McClagan, and formed The Faces. I mean, fantastic band, particularly legendary for your live shows. And watching those back now, you just always look like you're having a blast. Did it feel like that? Was it about that live energy for you?

24:54Yeah. The song had me a real good time. summed us all up, you know. We used to hand out a bit of the medicine that we had. We'd hand out wine or champagne. Instead of getting a support band, we'd get all the audience on the same wavelength we were on. Yeah, I've seen footage of concerts where the audience are kind of more or less on stage with you. You know, people are coming up and it was all very... Very loose, yeah. One big party kind of thing. The party would continue on stage as well as off. Yeah, and back at the hotel. Well, which does bring me to my next question, which is going to be about your reputation for raising hell while you were touring.

25:31We weren't allowed in any hotels. We used to have to check in as Fleetwood Mac. So this is because you got banned by the Holiday Inn. Yeah, banned by the whole chain. So you had to create aliases as other bands so that you could get somewhere to stay. Yeah. It came to a head in Detroit with Mona, her name was, behind the desk, and she reported us to the police and everything just because we made the hotel room out in the corridor. We just quietly arranged all the furniture out in the corridor and the manager came up and he said, the elevator door opened and there was this room there with all the pictures on the walls, settees and slippers and he said, it's very nice.

26:12He said, but it better not be here when I come back. And he got back in the elevator. You and Rod were back together at Glastonbury this year performing. I mean, how much has changed when you're on stage together? Absolutely nothing has changed. Just that Rod doesn't allow amps on stage anymore. And I went, hang on, Rod, this is not rock and roll, baby. What's going on? He said, no, I like to keep a nice clean stage. And I'm going, oh, all right, Rod, what am I supposed to do? He said, well, you wear these in-ears. And I went, oh, no. So these are the little monitors, that earpiece on it, is that you can wear so you can hear yourself.

26:49Yeah. Oh, God. Not into it. It's a nightmare. But the thing is, it came over really well and he knows what he's doing. Any plans for a Faces reunion? I know the two of you are still pretty close. Yeah, we would love to do that. We've got these songs that we're working on from back in the day, but it's hard to make our times tally. When we do get a chance to get in the studio again, we will finish off these songs. We've got a good body of songs going. Oh, fantastic. Good luck with that. Ronnie, I think we should hear some more music now. Your fifth choice today. What's next? Now, see, melody has gone through my life.

27:29And there's a song from Guys and Dolls called Adelaide, which Frank Sinatra sings. And the song is just so haunting. In fact, my wife Sally played Adelaide at the college. It just hits a very sad but hopeful note. The melody is so beautiful. Adelaide, Adelaide, ever-loving Adelaide Is taking a chance on me Taking a chance, I'll be respectable and nice Give up cards and dice And go for shoes and rice So gentlemen, deal me out Do not try to feel me out I got no more evening Adelaide, from the soundtrack to the film Guys and Dolls, composed by Frank Lesser and performed by Frank Sinatra. Ronnie Wood, you joined the Rolling Stones in 1975.

28:34You were brought in to replace guitarist Mick Taylor. What do you remember about the moment when the offer came? Yeah, just in the right place at the right time because I was at a Robert Stigward party. Yeah, I was sitting on this sofa between Mick Jagger and Mick Taylor and Mick Taylor leans over to Jagger and says, I'm leaving the band. And he goes back and Mick said, what? He said, I'm leaving the band. And Mick Taylor got up and left. And Mick looked at me and said, oh, my God, what am I going to do? Would you join? And I said, I thought you'd never ask. There had been a near miss, though, years before.