Erika Barbieri on Tasty Packaging Design

0:00From the Association of Registered Graphic Designers, this is the Design Thinkers podcast. Design Thinkers is Canada's largest graphic design conference. Originally launched to mark the conference's 25th anniversary, the podcast now reaches a global audience of designers and creatives. Join our host, Nicola Hamilton, as she connects with Design Thinkers speakers to explore the work and ideas shaping today's design industry. Erica Barbieri is the co-founder and creative director of Olson Barbieri, a design studio in Oslo. The studio's ethos is built almost entirely around one idea. The packaging can be a portal into a much bigger conversation about food.

0:44She and her partner Henrik met in design school in Florence, moved to Oslo in 2005, and spent years finding their footing before officially committing to the studio in 2012. In this episode, Erica talks about how, for her, good packaging design lives at the intersection of economic interest, cultural and social expression, ecological complexity, and aesthetics. That balance shows up in how the studio works too. They're as equally committed to research and storytelling as they are to creating beauty in the world. We talk about their work on Varys 775, a spirits package that was just named Best in Show at the 2026 Dyaline Awards, their past work on stereoscope coffee, an early wine project, and their upcoming talk at Design Thinkers.

1:28This episode is for designers who want packaging that does more than just sit on the shelf. It's for anyone curious about the research that hides behind such beautiful work, and for the food lovers who've always suspected that there's some overlap between what tastes good and what looks good. Let's maybe start at the beginning. So Olsen Barbieri started in Oslo in 2012 and it was after you and Henrik moved from Florence to Oslo right?

1:55Erika Barbieri:Yes we moved back to Oslo in 2005 but kind of officially Olsen by BI started in 2012 but we were being working together for like the seven years before that. Okay so the studio itself didn't start in Oslo you started it before you moved back? So we started together we met in Italy we me and Eric went to the same design school in Florence. It was a fantastic experience in Florence, Tuscany, that is the birthplace of the radical movement. The school, even though it's a state school, only accepted 25 people so we were a very tight class and the school basically was the people teaching there were some of the people from the radical movement itself so it was kind of that's kind of where we met it was five years program plus me and Eric at the end of the studies we found that was kind of nice to work together so we did our final exam also together and after that after kind of yeah I think already we were talking about because our background was product design and we felt that was not really kind of that we didn't really want to start to work with the furniture or things like that and and food was always kind of in an interesting place.

3:39Erika Barbieri:As Italians, of course, I do love food, and packaging was something that felt kind of was bridging kind of both the product design and the graphic design that felt also more immediate of the time and with kind of, yeah, something that was interesting to us. So we knew that we wanted to work with packaging and specifically packaging with food. And then Eric is from Oslo, so he wanted to come back. And me, I'm from Firenze and I've been kind of living all my life there. And it sounded very exciting to kind of try something else. So we moved immediately after the study here in Oslo and first to work with some friends of Eric as a more collective, where different people had kind of different creative kind of specialization within movies and also furniture and photography and stuff like that.

4:44Erika Barbieri:but that didn't last so long and so pretty with naivety and not really knowing at that point that what we wanted was to start our own studio we started our own studio and that lasted for kind of after seven years we felt okay this is I don't know I do believe in those cycles so seven years so we committed to to the to kind of to have a studio together. And so we feel that Ulso Berbieri started more in 2012 when then we were kind of, yes, this is what we want to do. Was there any particular moment or project that made you sort of solidify that as, oh, this is actually what we're doing? So one of the first projects that we did as a studio here in Oslo was working with wine.

5:38Erika Barbieri:And I think at the time, packaging design was this kind of category within design that was not so sexy. I think it was considered more, you know, very commercial and somehow marketing driven and not so, yeah, creative maybe. but we kind of I think yeah we got lucky that wine was our first project and at the time so we're talking about 2005 that was a time where you know Italy is a traditional kind of producer of wine, Norway because it didn't produce wine it had a much more relaxed idea of what wine could be and there was also the time where it wasn't kind of younger people was getting into wine and the typical codes of wine or being kind of traditional weren't so kind of working or we could challenge that.

6:43Erika Barbieri:And that became kind of, I think we realized that that was a place that we were really interested in working with, meaning the typical marketing-driven process where you are kind of following the codes where actually the goal was rather to find a new language for wine that was more kind of maybe disruptive and new. And that kind of continued with the time. We had to choose at a certain point to also, do we want to specialize with just beverage? That wasn't our intention. So we realized, okay, this is something that we like to do. More clients outside also of more the commercial sphere. So pretty much I could say that we, here in Norway also, there was kind of legislation kind of, I don't know, that's very specific of Norway.

7:48Erika Barbieri:The alcohol beverage and the state is a monopoly. but in 2005 there was also a change of rules where more independent producers could start to produce spirits. So we really found a territory where we could kind of be creative and challenge the language of packaging design. So that became really attractive and also in particular deciding, okay so it's not going to be we're not we don't want to be specialized in beverage but we think food is is a space where there is a lot to do and there is and and we can continue with this practice that we have created of of actually everything in the codes and the language and the contest of of each category so that was kind of we felt there is no repetition here even though it's more of similar projects, there is space to explore and is exciting.

8:55I think that's so interesting because I think that conundrum of like, do we specialize and how special do we specialize? Like how niche do we go is something that I think a lot of designers and studio owners grapple with. And the idea that you sort of ended up in the specialization, which happens, right? Like work begets work. You do something in a space and more of those clients come to you. but that you were like, hey, how do we widen this net a little bit?

9:20Erika Barbieri:Right. I mean, it's definitely a combination of a decision. And then you also have to be kind of always, for a long time, it would just be me and Eric. So we also needed to be conscient of, yeah, what you do is what you're asked to do later as well. So we kind of had to be conscious on trying to expand and we reach out also to clients and brands that we thought were interesting to work with. And that helped us to also show that we could do other things. And as I said, also kind of, yeah, we started working mostly with Norwegian clients, but very soon it became also we became visible for other brands also internationally.

10:13Erika Barbieri:So that also helped to kind of get projects from independent entrepreneurs and have a much more collaboration, a collaborative way to really concentrate on what we were more interested in doing. that was collaborating with interesting people and be able to kind of follow our practice of researching and try to find new ways to show what we could do. I think when you're working with entrepreneurs too, you're almost helping them shape their own vision for the business at the same time, right? As they're trying to sort of figure it out. For sure, strategy is a big part of also what we're doing and kind of try to think more about what is the potential here.

11:08Erika Barbieri:Of course, some people have that more clear and some we felt we could be helping them to also shape a conversation and a story that felt relevant for the time we are living in and to show really the potential of different ways of being in the world that I feel is kind of what the role of design is becoming more and more kind of what it should be. Within design there is this duality or contradiction where is most of the time considered a tool for commerce but design at his best. It does live in the intersection of both economic interests, but also cultural and social expression, and this ecological, of course, complexity and also is aesthetic.

12:14Erika Barbieri:So kind of embracing this complexity is something that we have been very kind of excited about. I think especially because so much of the work you've done is work that lives in people's homes in some way, right? So having them be beautiful objects that get displayed makes a difference. Yeah, for sure. I think I appreciate that this object made for people kind of, I feel sometimes a designer can design for other designers. and I feel kind of to work with something that is in the life of like in the everyday and that's, as I said, I'm kind of do love food and love the people that are working with food and kind of some like, yeah, the stories that they are connected with most products is really allow us to explore a lot of conversation that we felt were important for kind of the time.

13:25It makes me think a little bit about the duality, like what you were just saying, though, like about how really good design sometimes goes completely unnoticed or it's so beautiful that we notice it regularly, right? Like those are kind of the goals that we're moving towards when you're talking about physical objects. So there's something interesting in that, right? Like the designing for other designers is the super beautiful stuff, the stuff that goes into homes and people sort of forget, like that there's less friction in the way that they use it. That's also really good design.

13:53Erika Barbieri:Absolutely. When I think about our practice, I think there is research is a big part of what we do, but beauty is definitely a very strong value for us and beauty in a large sense. Palantonelli did say something in this shape, the opposite of beauty is not ugly, it's lacy. So I definitely believe that kind of beauty is always kind of an aspiration for objects. I think mostly the contradiction that I feel design can express is this duality between kind of, yes, is a tool for commerce, is supposed to create desire. but at the same time design has always been also this kind of positive force for change and the tool for creating solutions but also maybe being critical of what design is and so kind of when you're working within food we also realize we are not really required to be critical and consider what is the invisible part of the infrastructure that is behind food.

15:25Erika Barbieri:And so I think to find the harmony and to find balance between these two parts of the design is also something that I feel I'm very interested in. Well, you keep sort of talking about the process and how research driven it is. So maybe walk us through the process of how a project usually comes together at Olsen-Barberi. Is it research led first? Is it material led? Is it story led? Like, where do you start? our next design thinkers event is happening in toronto on october 20th and 21st 2026 join us in person or watch live online from anywhere in the world with presentations hands-on workshops intimate discussions and opportunities to connect with the other 2 000 designers creative and art directors managers educators and students in attendance design thinkers toronto is a journey into the creative process and a celebration of strategic design thinking.

16:25Speakers include graphic designer and writer, Chip Kidd, lettering designer and author, Martina Floor, visual artist, Tammy Coker, information designer, Valentina DeFilippo, and best-selling author and artist, Adam J. Kurtz. Use the code PODCAST for 10 % off tickets. That's PODCAST, all lowercase, for 10 % off. Tickets for Design Thinkers in Toronto, both in person and live streaming, are on sale now at designthinkers.com.

16:55Erika Barbieri:So definitely is research based, I feel, design. I love that you just lit up talking about research. Like this is obviously your favorite part based on your body language. Yeah, I mean, it's research that leads to storytelling and the storytelling that leads to kind of the final choice. I think if you were only working with visual references, it will kind of, I think it's hard to find something to... Anchor it. Yeah, it feels like something kind of... First of all, you can repeat yourself very easily. I think during kind of our... So either me or Eric never studied, never worked in other studios.

17:48Erika Barbieri:So we are really kind of pretty much learn the hard way to kind of find our way of working. And I'm grateful for that because maybe it's part of how we are doing things. I don't know if differently, but our own way. And then I also kind of I think I consider myself a curious person. So I do love that when there is a new project, there is a world to discover, to kind of create, find connections. dig deeper I love to get into rabbit holes of research and I don't know before studying design I studied art school so I think the mix of my background as kind of knowing art history and also of course design history then you become there is a contest there is a cultural contest that becomes relevant for a product, where it's coming from, what the people that are kind of working with this want to communicate and naturally creating kind of a red thread that feels like from the origin of kind of when we work with coffee, so what is coffee and what are the challenges of coffee, How can we look at coffee in a critical way today?

19:20Erika Barbieri:We felt that everyone was talking about pretty much the same thing. So we felt, okay, we cannot, we need to find another angle and maybe also look for what is the thing that is underlined that nobody wants to talk about, but that is intrinsic of what the history of coffee is. Now I'm referring to Stereoscope, the project that we did with LA-based roastery. And so, of course, this was also kind of inspired by the founder that was, stereoscope means kind of looking kind of with this also duality, depth and simplicity. So we kind of, and also he was talking about how the goal of a roaster is to kind of work to find the pure flavor that comes in respecting what the seed has as a flavor.

20:31Erika Barbieri:So what the farmer and the climate and the rar kind of put in the coffee. So there our research was kind of, of course, connecting coffee with the colonialism, the commodification of coffee. and so try to understand how we could use these topics into finding something that feels unique for this client and also, of course, something that feels positive and not something that is upsetting people. So in our kind of, in the way we, then usually we are reading different philosophers. philosopher in the case was Emanuele Cocha that was talking about the life of plants and realizing kind of, yeah, coffee is a plant and within what we were reading at the time was coffee in the future might be kind of a disappearing product because with climate change and everything we might not be able to have as much production as we have today.

21:47Yeah, and the amount we consume, right? Like it's one of our most consumed products.

21:51Erika Barbieri:Yeah, the extinction of food is kind of, yeah, of course existed for animals and for kind of landscape also disappearing of food possibly in the future. So then that was, and we kind of, I feel there is, if I'm talking about our practice, I feel without this kind of research and without this kind of discovery and appreciation and try to learn as much as possible about a produce in its own context today, it will be kind of impossible to find then the concept that will have its shape and have a story and be able to resonate and lead also maybe the way for what a new way of looking into this category could be.

22:55Yeah, I think that's such an interesting example. The one I was going to sort of bring up to ask you about sort of hits on some of those same points. I was going to ask about the Veris 775, which won Best of Show at the 2026 Dyalin Awards, which is very exciting. And it was the first spirits brand to take that honor since like 2019, which seems wild to me.

23:14Erika Barbieri:I mean, the spirit is within the luxury space. So I also respect the fact that it's much more exciting to kind of acknowledge also that that line has been so good that also recognizing less obvious. If obvious could be, it's never, it's never, it never is. Concept is always stronger. But that one, I think that was a project where I was sort of reminded of how far back you often go in the research too, right? because that one was built around like a it was a battle it was a it was a fight right that it was built around from like 9 AD or something yeah yeah I mean it wasn't that we brought it there was the naming that sort of made us learn about what the client wanted to call the the product or already their distillery was called Varus so they are in Lubecky and what is famous about this village is that there was this battle between the Romans and the Germans and actually learning about that time.

24:34Erika Barbieri:We learn that kind of this battle together with being very famous because then they have been found a lot of kind of coins and different things on the ground and that had been made a museum out of it, was that basically stopped the Roman Empire to expand on the generic land. And then going through the Romans was kind of exciting to understand that already there there was this realization that a time of kind of a war was the normal status quo that was at the time but Augustus if I'm not mistaken had already said that during peace there was much more prosperity and it was kind of better for everyone

25:34Erika Barbieri:situation. So then we kind of tried to think of the relationship between these two countries as what was positive anyway, because the Germans were kind of allies of Romans, so they already had kind of commerce between them and exchange of different things. So we kind of went through this rabbit hole and figure out, okay, there is coins, there is vessels, there is transportation of these goods and the ideas of kind of good life that the Romans kind of taught to the Germans and they also kind of reconnected that part of history with the local spirits culture that already was putting kind of spirit in those ceramic vessels like the Genever.

26:40Erika Barbieri:So that kind of made us think, okay, maybe we shouldn't have necessarily a glass bottle, will be interesting to have a vessel that is more representative of that time. From there, the alambic and the different vessels used for drinking brought us to these pictures that were so beautiful. and we thought, yeah, that can also add to the ritual of drinking and be able to explore a little bit also a different way of how to serve and how to, you know, open a bottle and possibly also have a refill bottle that within the spirit world we felt we didn't see. that idea explored so much. Well, and refill is like sort of a ritual and a hearkening back to that time also feels really in line with the story.

27:51So it's such a beautiful project. But it had me thinking a little bit about, and maybe all of the research has me thinking a little bit about that sort of sustainability in vessels in the food space too, right? Like really thinking about like, what are the materials that we're using and how are we using them? Is that something that you're chasing? like maybe more deliberately today than you once were?

28:12Erika Barbieri:Sustainability is definitely becoming an inseparable part of design of our life. So we cannot kind of, I feel kind of not to think about it, but it is also a very kind of complex topic. I think in a way it is also hard to do sustainability with only one product. You do need definitely a client that is open to work with sustainability. And also, as I was saying, you can not only do it on a product, you do need to rethink a little bit the production, how do you source the material, and in a way also his own distribution. So to do a sustainable project means also to think and rethink with the client the complexity of the infrastructure of their own products.

29:21Erika Barbieri:so definitely I think to work with sustainability there is a there is a yeah in its complexity one one should be thinking at all of this and not just think that by by choosing a material in a product we are solving we are doing a service there is a rethinking of of many aspects of how we are using today objects. But within also when maybe that is not possible it's still interesting to think how can we be mindful of what we are putting out there. Do we need any secondary box? Can we challenge the material of this cork with new regulation, thinking of, you know, try to put fewer material together so that you could think of also the afterlife of the object.

30:22Erika Barbieri:In the case of the refill, of course, it's nice that some objects are so nice to keep also so that you rather refill them. Yeah, back to your beauty point earlier. Yeah, I mean, it is true that anyway, when something is well done, you are more likely to appreciate it. So taking care of it and not discard it afterwards is definitely something that I believe that one object, when it's possible to kind of be able to keep it afterwards is a good sign of having put something in the world that possibly doesn't get thrown away right away. Which I guess is also the other challenge of working in food and drink packaging, right?

31:11Like it has to survive contact with the real world, like greasy hands or like being stacked in a shelf or getting shipped or living in the fridge. Like those are things that probably really shape the decisions or the options that you have available to you too, right?

31:27Erika Barbieri:Yeah, of course, it doesn't give any packaging needs to be functional. You have to think where it's used, who buys it, how does it look, what is kind of the whole life of this object, from who is packing it, what kind of packing experience they will have and also how is it traveling and how is on the shelf and possibly today also with buying online if there is a subscription so how is the experience of possibly receiving a package at home with the object yeah I mean you are there is more things to think about for sure often some materials is natural kind of if you work with a bottle the paper material for the label it is has to be kind of functioning in the fridge or functioning in a wet space that's normal so this paper is it recycled or not or the reflections are are are more and i think for us now has become kind of natural to think at different levels what is the choice of material that feels right, what kind of performance this product needs to do, and at the same time, when you have it at home, after the first purchase, do you want to buy it again?

33:04Erika Barbieri:Do you today also packaging of food, often you want to keep it out, right? It's not something that you want to hide, so how do you achieve that desirability? It sort of makes me think like how much of the work that you're doing is like intuition based now versus sort of the brief. Like, do you get a bit of a feeling when something lands and you're like, oh, these are these are the decisions that are that I've already decided in my mind. And these are the places that I want to push and research and ask questions about. So, I mean, in a way, when we receive a brief, usually we are also kind of debriefing.

33:42Erika Barbieri:briefing so if we see potential for challenging the brief we definitely try to do that i think we are of course good at certain things and also let's go to other things in his end so if a client is coming to us we also kind of want to deliver what we're good at so there is always a a discussion about yes we understand this is what you're asking us to do these are the problems we try to understand if what they're asking is actually a good answer to the problems that we hear also behind or that we can see potential for do better so in we definitely a challenge the the brief if is necessary but um i don't know i i feel i also like i'm i'm i don't feel is a i appreciate to push a client in a direction that i we already decide beforehand i feel is something that we find together we discover together and then based on that you feel also more confident that you are answering to what they feel comfortable with, to what they understand is right for them or for their market or for their kind of vision of the future.

35:11Erika Barbieri:So, I mean, sometimes, sure, there is some lights that are popping up, but we continue on them if it feels right, not just because we think that that could be good or that would be fun. And how do you keep them focused on sort of like the bigger brand story versus that, like, just make it look nice on the shelf kind of idea? Like, how do you keep them focused on a bigger narrative? This podcast is made possible with the support of the Association of Registered Graphic Designers. The RGD is Canada's largest professional association for graphic designers. The association's membership of more than 4 ,000 people includes firm owners, freelancers, managers, in-house designers, educators, and students.

35:58If you've been wanting to be a part of a design community, the RGD offers many opportunities for learning and connection. You can seek advice and participate in our Slack workspace, meet regularly with others in your niche through our virtual communities, become a mentor for an emerging designer, attend free weekly webinars, make friends at our local events, and so much more. While the RGD is a Canadian association, you don't need to be Canadian to become a member. Find out more at rgd.ca slash membership and join us in our mission to build a graphic design profession that is broadly valued for its contributions to life, commerce, and society.

36:36Erika Barbieri:In our experience, I feel that clients who get very, they feel seen and understood and they're trusting the ideas when they see that we've been going through all this research and understanding and try to follow their lead on building on what they are saying, but getting deeper and contextualize it in a way that feels relevant. So usually kind of we divide roughly our phase in four phase. And then we have a first phase where actually we are not designing anything, but we are discussing the strategy, storytelling, what we see potential. is kind of we are we are I feel they see they see the value of that face and the story usually is kind of often they say oh this is a beautiful way of saying of saying something that I wasn't able to say and from that storytelling, that strategic foundation, we are also kind of continuing to build on it.