How to Empower Music’s Next Generation - DiSpatch from the Youth Music Awards

0:00How can we make it more inclusive? How can we make it so that everyone has equitable access to the things that are fundamentally a human right, the ability to create and learn? What does it mean to you to be seeing people thriving these projects as you did when you were younger? It's just joyous. It's just joyous. It's a joyous thing to watch people fulfil their potential. Drowned in Sound podcast. Big up for you guys. Youth Music 2025. Let's go.

0:39And if you look at all the artists that are coming through, like, you know, British, UK based artists, a lot of them have started in youth spaces like Alt Black Era, English Teacher, Ezra Collective, all came out of spaces supported by youth music. That's no coincidence. us. Hello, it's Emma here. Welcome to the new episode of the Drowned in Sound podcast. Last voice you heard there was the voice of Matt Griffiths, the CEO of Youth Music. Youth Music is a national charity helping marginalised young people to make and monetise music. Every year they raise over£10 million to fund inspirational grassroots music projects and support aspiring young creatives up and down the UK.

1:20Every year they raise over£10 million to fund inspirational grassroots music projects to support aspiring young creatives up and down the UK. And last week, I headed over to Troxy in London to go behind the seats at their annual awards, which celebrates some of the most exciting and change-making artists and leaders from across the grassroots, and with Youth Music's next-gen community of 18 to 25-year-old creatives helping to deliver the event. This episode dives into the Youth Music Cause across three key themes, access, opportunity, and what we can do as music fans. And we end on the latter, so please make sure to listen out for that let's get stuck in

2:02an integral part of the youth music organization is charlotte edgeworth who is co-chair of youth music's board of trustees as well as being director of diversity inclusion and social impact at sony music i was lucky enough to chat with charlotte just before the ceremony took place and we discuss the role that the wider music industry can play in supporting grassroots music. We know from the Rescue the Roots campaign that like 41 % of new music projects are currently threatened so and if we were in say like the worst case scenario we were to lose as many as we could risk losing if that were to happen like what kind of knock-on effect would that end up having to the rest of the industry?

2:38Emma Wilkes:Well I think as you say if one part of the ecosystem goes down it impacts all the other bits and I think that would be a tragedy for our young people not just because the they would miss the joy and creativity but we could then have this gap of incredible artists that we're then not having the opportunity to nurture and grow so I think I think it would really be quite disastrous not just for music but for wider communities very often the projects that we work with can be in the heart of their community and they all those other things that they provide for young people safety security somewhere to go somewhere to meet other people that real heart of the community function is so important too so we wouldn't just lose creativity and music we'd lose a lot of community cohesion oh yeah absolutely especially in a time where we're talking about third spaces a lot more and like the trouble that they're in like in all sorts of it all it all connects you know far beyond necessarily just a small it's not in a bubble nothing's in a vacuum exactly exactly it's all connected yeah and then obviously with the position that you're in being at Sony as well like what would you sort of say is like like the corporate industry's responsibility to keep all this propped up like what how do you how do you think these things should be interacting um I think there's definitely uh an interaction as you say that's really important and I think there is um an onus on the industry to face that and accept it in my Sony role I run our grant making fund our social justice fund and just like youth music our aims are about finding interesting and exciting projects and working with those partnerships but I think more widely the industry I think understands that it does have a responsibility to communities and to wider society I think corporate responsibility is much better understood than it used to be and that a corporation can't just exist in a vacuum without having relationships with charity or community partnerships that help feed the work that it does but also to open up the doors as we talked about demystifying the industry if we want people to join us and the best people to come and work with us we have to show them what that workplace is about and why they might want to do that so it really benefits everybody it works both ways yeah absolutely And then in terms of like looking towards the future, like what do you think like this sector needs right now?

5:04What would you like to see change or improve?

5:09Emma Wilkes:Oh, such a big question. I think there's something about consistency. You know, I've worked in the charity sector before and the hardest thing about funding is knowing where you're going to be in a certain amount of time. So multi-year partnerships, really strong commitments are important. and I think trust as well you know trust and belief in an industry to want to really support young people from the roots upwards is what we need I think we all know the joy and the importance of these projects as we talk about music being so art and creativity all of these things being important to us but I think really solid long-term commitment to that is what we need right now from all sectors of society absolutely like that's the thing especially when you last look at other political and the governmental level one thing that I was really wish they'd sort of take note of actually just how valuable not just economically but culturally without it we'd sort of be we'd be in a far more impoverished place absolutely so it's it takes everyone's from businesses to schools to youth clubs to all come together and make sure that we have this sort of world-class level of access for our young people all of the people in this room today at the youth music awards are skilled community builders, they're people who are actually working at the grassroots, or the people who are most marginalised and disenfranchised from politics or education or any other kind of traditional structures.

6:37That's Dan Su, and he's one of the co-leaders of Youth Music's Industry Connect programme, which helps to map clearer pathways for young people entering the music industry. He is also the founder of Lyric's Organics, a widely acclaimed event production and workshop organisation focused on youth development. In our conversation, we unpack the contradiction in the industry of needing to make money, but also having creative freedom. Without spaces where we can actually create change, if we were to, you know, what's interesting about the way that the youth sector has developed over decades, partly due to funding, partly due to just the nature of the creative industry's involvement, is that people need an opportunity to mobilise.

7:30And if we brought lots of these micro communities that we're so skilled in building and creating mega communities or macro communities, if you like, then actually we can genuinely have a voice. And I think one of the challenges that the music industry has at the moment is that we are part commercial industry and part kind of altruistic, educational, supportive, pastoral kind of activities and care. And in some ways, these two are kind of diametrically opposed. And really, and we see signs of it where, you know, music industry invests in the youth sector, the youth sector kind of merges into kind of the commercial mainstream industry.

8:09But actually, if everyone was speaking on the same page, imagine what we could do to change policy, to give a voice to the voiceless. And we see it to a degree. And I think what's really interesting at the moment is that we are moving through this kind of generational shift, right? And so as people like myself and my peers kind of age out, the hope, genuine hope, is that young creators today, with all of the tools that they have and all these micro building micro communities that they're building can actually have a genuine and authentic voice i think there's something really interesting when you compare music for example with the film industry and think about how fundamental the grassroots and young people are to the music industry and how different that is to other you know disciplines in the creative industries so So I think there's a huge amount of skills and tools that are not being fully tapped into if we genuinely want to create change, whatever that looks like.

9:19What does grassroots music mean to you? Grassroots music means, I think, amplifying voices, being a voice for the voiceless and seeing what some people actually can't see. Oh wow, that's a tricky question. Innovation, something that we've never heard before and unrepresented voices. It's just a space where you can like experiment and like find yourself when you're a young artist and you don't know what you're doing and then you can grow from there but without that you can't just go on to the big stages without having those moments in grassroot venues and clubs. The most important part, I was a seed at one point, I've been growing through the grass you know at one point you're gonna be a massive tree and then we gotta give the

10:06Emma Wilkes:fruit and drop it back down and make more roots basically it's important because without roots there ain't no tree

10:15this ceremony is obviously taking place in quite like a significant time and off the heels of the report in which she said that 41 % of youth music projects are at risk what would you say the main threats that they are facing right now I think the sign of the times is around cost of living so the cost of living crisis means that it's more expensive for these charities to run. I think they're faced with increased demand from young people who have a huge appetite for making music of all different kinds, and it's responding to that huge demand. And I think in the kind of ecosystem, sometimes this grassroots youth music sector is forgotten about, and more attention is paid to buildings and other aspects of the arts that get a bigger slice of the money so I think there's an imbalance about where the money goes and there's also the cost of living crisis and increasing demand for this work in youth music spaces which young people absolutely love.

11:15Do you think there's a relationship as well between cuts to music education as well and the fact that if young people can't access that in schools that they need to sort of look elsewhere? Yeah so in schools in terms of music education in schools, there's a cut in the number of teachers, there's a cut in the number of teaching hours, and I think the importance that's placed on it by head teachers, governors of schools and parents has diminished. But there's a real contradiction for me, because actually music in young people's life, it's their top favourite thing, and we know that. So whilst there's difficulties, it's also up to the education system to really respond to young people where they're at with music and where they're currently at and then I think you would get increased engagement and also the head teacher and the school would go okay so this is great for music but it's socially and personally and well-being wise really helping young people so it needs to kind of go right up the agenda and not be seen somehow as an unimportant subject for young people it's it's probably the top subject in their life yeah absolutely and that's the thing as well I feel like this sector is so undervalued as well people by people who deem it as frivolous or unimportant but then absolutely everything that you said there what people gain in terms of like the passion they're able to find and even just like from even just in ways beyond that even if you don't necessarily make it your career you gain so much of it in terms of like building confidence and community and that's everything that's young people need that so much yeah and probably from a youth music perspective that's one of the top things for us the kind of the social benefits of making music, how it makes you feel, how it will help address situations that you might be in, as well as making music and for some going for a career in music.

13:02But our work is so framed around early years, early childhood, right the way through to young adulthood because of that reason. So I think schools can do more to embrace young people's inherent love of music and start where they're at. And then I think you would get increased engagement with the school curriculum and probably I'd take a guess you get increased engagement with the number of students wanting to do GCSE music and A-level music if they know it's talking about music that means something to them. Yeah no absolutely I did GCSE music myself I think there was one lesson I think we did I think was I sort of still think about they had a lesson on music of the 1990s and we're playing Nirvana in Green Day and like that was that was amazing to me because I was like seeing myself seen feeling myself seen in that lesson that you're not necessarily experienced with other subjects exactly and the benefit of music is that in school you can start exactly where young people are at because I can guarantee their love of music is really high so if that love is taken seriously as soon as they walk into the classroom and what a great place to start yeah and of course the teacher's role is to broaden horizons and increase knowledge and skills but don't in any way come across in a school that you're dismissing a young person's love of music because it might not be something the teacher knows about.

14:26So you've got to come with almost like relinquish control and let young people shine with what they're talking about in music in their life. A common theme of these conversations was the importance of music education and this was a big theme of my conversation with the brilliant Sister Bliss, the legendary musician, DJ and producer, best known as the co-founder and creative force behind Faithless. In our chat, we unpack the need for every young person to have the opportunity to make and explore music. So let's hear more about what she had to say. How concerned are you for like a generation that doesn't have that level of opportunity, like in school, right in front of them and have to go and like search elsewhere if they want to be?

15:08I'm massively concerned. I mean, it's the whole school curriculum. is geared towards academic subjects and they've decided that art subjects are somehow not important. But we know that we're really heavy hitters in this country in the arts, you know, and that extends globally. And it also creates massive revenues. And so if we slash the arts and we don't let kids have a go at drama and music or art or creative arts, I mean, it's ridiculous. It's literally crushing the amazing potential that people have got in this country and to contribute not only, you know, spiritually and creatively, but financially.

15:51And I think it's horribly short sighted. And I don't know why the curriculum hasn't been reviewed and changed and become fit for purpose. The weird thing is, I don't necessarily think that especially people in government really understand the value of it either, especially like culturally, economically. And I just think when you're trying to make these cuts, I just think, why would we be without this? It would be a far more joyless place to be in. I mean, absolutely, apart from all this untapped potential, you know, it gives people real confidence and a sense of community to experiment and to express themselves and to do this with other people.

16:32I wouldn't be where I am now without music, literally a recorder orchestra, which is probably some idea, some people's idea of hell. Actually, a bunch of sort of eight-year-olds all playing the recorder. But I got to do it. But this was in the 70s and in the 80s and I was part of a youth orchestra. I was part of a jazz band and it was all locally funded by the council. And the school I went to had music lessons for everybody and the same in the secondary school that I went to. So there are people advocating, obviously youth music is one of them, but there are people pushing to give much more visibility to this issue.

17:15so I don't think youth music is alone in recognising you know things have got to change and they've got to change fast because there's young people coming up they deserve every chance in every area be it sport, music, culture, science why are we short changing? Exactly you're short changing a group of people why would you want to try and push somebody into a career that they're not naturally suited to that they don't want to be in when actually they could actually be involved in something that properly lights them up? But why is it that you, why do you think that music has been so like, it almost seems like it's been culturally disencouraged, especially at a government level.

17:54Even like Kemi Badnock saying quite recently, she was like, oh yes, we should ban these soft subjects in university. It's just sheer ignorance really. Maybe because music is seen as sort of subversive and counts cultural and there are people involved in the world of music who want to speak truth to power. So perhaps that's one of the reasons.

18:22How vital is it to provide these tools, industry information, these workshops, all these things that you do for creators? What makes such a need for that to be put across? Well, I mean, more than ever, I think it's really important that young creatives have spaces when spaces are being gradually demolished, taken over, evaporating, you know, funding cuts and all the systemic barriers that many of the young people that we work with face on a daily basis. So, you know, the work that I do ranges from running workshops, designing education programmes, going into youth centres, colleges, universities, but then also overseas.

19:01And I think one thing that's become really apparent to me actually as I've been thinking about the Youth Music Awards and the people that I've worked with over the last kind of 20 years or so. You know I've been quite fortunate to work with people in Sudan for example and Ukraine and places where being able to create art, create music for creativity's sake or even just to have a voice is so precious and in some cases not even permissible. So I think having spaces where young people can congregate and either create music or support more broadly music creation and the creative industries is so important you know it's it's a it's an art form which is under threat at the moment and so I think we all have a responsibility to to meet it where it needs to be met.

19:49That's exactly that's exactly true I've been thinking about that quite a lot myself lately in terms of how it's not always been valued as much as it should be but actually how much you can actually young people can actually gain not just from actually potentially finding something that unlocks a dream that they then pursue as a career but even just from like building community building friendships building confidence and actually having somewhere to go rather than being becoming like isolated and stuck behind the screen all the time yeah i mean it's it's so vital you know as new services have been cut as grassroots music venues have been lost we start to find that people have to find different spaces and where those spaces mean leaving the industry, the creative industries altogether.

20:31You're talking about, you know, a loss of skills, you're talking about loss of cultures, loss of communities, to some degree a loss of languages and dialects which are, you know, kind of propagated through culture and music particularly. I think it's really quite a critical point for preserving the grassroots, for recognising the importance of spaces and places. A lot of the work that I do with youth music and outside of youth music as a consultant is research around creative careers. What we've found is a lot of things, but ultimately that the way that young creators are moving through their careers in the creative industries is fundamentally different now and so I think you know there's challenges around kind of systemic and kind of legacy structures which just kind of reinforce barriers to to young people but then I think there's also something about being able to recognise kind of gatekeeping and where funding goes and how it's disseminated which youth music do so incredibly well thoughtfully and kind of intentionally and I think you know a lot of the research that we've been doing over the last kind of year or two especially with Industry Connect under the Youth Music Banner has been looking at how can we make it more inclusive how can we make it so that everyone has equitable access to the things that you know fundamentally a human right the ability to create and learn is so important and the reality is that not everyone learns in the same way.

22:08Formal education is not set up for the majority of people in many ways. If you are, you know, marginalised, if you have language barriers, if you are not recognised, be it through gender, through other forms of identity, ethnicity, immigration. And I think what music does so well is kind of democratise a space where people can connect and cultures can meet and you don't really get that anymore as we kind of like atomize life and social media and breaking down communities into into silos i think it's so important that you have these kind of spaces that youth music and all the partners create which create a middle ground for people to just be

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23:40The importance of integrating music in education especially has been made very clear, especially that it's an opportunity to meet the young people where they're at. However, despite this, organisations like Youth Music are finding it harder than ever to access funding. So what does their future look like? And what can the ordinary music fan do to help? So what does it mean to you to be seeing people thriving these projects as you did when you were younger? Oh, it's just joyous. It's just joyous. It's a joyous thing to watch people fulfil their potential. And, you know, obviously it's going to remind me of me because I was rubbish once as well.

24:16And I got given chances in life just by the accident of the decade that I was born in. It's just an accident of birth, you know. And for Maxie, he had a different trajectory in music, but he tried everything. Everything that was open to him, you know, scratching, making beats. He played a clarinet at school as well. He sang in the choir. You know, these things existed back then. and all of that made him the person that he became as well yeah so obviously it's all about self-actualization I guess yeah exactly you've developed so much and you actually especially if you actually get sort of a vote of confidence in your own abilities as well and you can actually grow as a person in that department as well because obviously you know being an adolescent such a fraught period emotionally yeah absolutely having a focus on music and the togetherness of it is, yeah, it can really help build you up inside when the rest of life seems to be really chaotic and difficult.

25:17It is a space to be able to, yeah, communicate sometimes without words at all. And that's another thing. Music brings people together from all over the world, regardless of language, and sometimes regardless of language barriers, you know. Music is a language in and of itself. And once you start making it and getting involved in it, you start to realise that it has an emotional effect on the listener and on the people taking part so it's this exchange of energy and obviously I get to experience that playing in my hand in Faithless you know for over 30 years what it feels like to have thousands and thousands of people going absolutely batshit crazy to some music that you kind of wrote and thought no one would listen to yeah that's kind of an amazing experience so I think I'll be feeling a lot for them that you know this is the future they can have too if we support them and we continue to support them and nurture talent and nurture perseverance as well i don't think i'm massively talented but i am a grafter and it's a lot about music that's just about grafting you know sticking with it and there's so many levels of discouragement along the way um yeah i think we need to sort or shine a light on all the parts of, you know, music making that can be really tough along the way as well.

26:37And that's why it's so good if people, you know, get involved with youth music and what they're trying to do. Can kind of say these are some of the pitfalls along the way and what can we do to make things different for artists? I mean, everybody's struggling at the moment because of AI and, you know, venues disappearing and festivals disappearing post-COVID and so forth and the terrible residuals from Spotify and streaming. Being an artist and a musician in this day and age is not easy. So I also think that kind of mentorship is really important. I love mentoring. That's one of the things I do, as well as being in a band.

27:14It makes me feel like I have a purpose. Yeah, that's amazing. Not just mucking about on stage with my keyboards. Yeah, but then the other thing as well, a thing that's kind of cropped up in the conversations that I've been having today, a lot of them have talked about community, whether that's finding community in music or actually it at a community level as well. Like, what do you think makes music so important? What to you makes music so important on a community level? Well, just simply bringing people together. Yeah. I mean, I used to do music at the community centre. I used to do this jazz beat, you know, and I met all sorts of people I never would have met.

27:50It took me out of my shell and it took me out of my little narrow social world. so it's about exposure to the wider world as well because I think that's really important and the fact that making music with other people it has a value the sum of the parts is bigger than just one person not dissing anyone who's extremely talented and can do it all on their own like Prince so that's what community means Looking towards the future then and where the industry's at and where you think things need to be improved. What would you like to sort of see happen in the next five years, etc.? And how do you think youth music can help in that?

28:33I think it's about establishing a collective strategy amongst music organisations, both in education and industry, so that we're punching above our weight. Sadly, with the industry, because there's so much competition, it leads to huge fragmentation. So there's lots of different businesses doing lots of things, but it's often not coordinated and it's not a strategy. So something like a national music strategy, which acknowledges its role in terms of the economics of music, but also the health and well-being and the social benefits of music, is put together a strategy. And youth music could be right at the heart of that because we straddle all those worlds.

29:13So I think that's a kind of strategic point. I think in terms of where the money goes, you know, buildings, institutions are, of course, important. But I think for us, there's a step before playing your music in a building or a venue. There's a place where you make it. There's a place where you make that music and create it in a safe environment like a youth club where you're surrounded by good people and friends to make your music. So I think we want to up the agenda to say that's exactly where it really starts. And then that music can go into venues that hopefully will be thriving as well. So I think a lot of this is about strategy rather than the music industry because one of its drawbacks is it being so competitive, sometimes there's not enough cooperation and kind of kindness and collaboration working together because it benefits us all if you get that right.

30:11Yeah, exactly. And if there's that feeling of scarcity, then that kind of fosters that feeling of cooperation, whereas if it feels like there is enough for everybody yeah you know that a sort of abundance mindset yeah and it's the kind of creative economy of the UK you know great diversity great inclusion is great for music it absolutely is I firmly believe that it's not like an ease or all yeah but there's something a bit that could be done in music wise that really is a convening of a national strategy and youth music can be really at the center of that so hello how are you doing today? I'm really good I'm just really excited yeah it's been like a mad journey and I'm just excited to see what tonight's going to be like.

30:51That's the voice of the sensational Cambridge raised rapper Jaya Had A Dream. She won both the Lyricist and Rising Star Award on the night and we caught up before the show to talk about the role of youth music in unlocking opportunities for her life and career. You are here but like how did you end up getting here so obviously like you you received some sort of grant from the Next Gen Fund. And so how much of a difference did that funding make to you getting your career off the ground? It made a huge difference because the year that I got funded was the year that I'd quit my job, my full-time teaching job to be a full-time rapper.

31:24And to be honest, before youth music, I didn't know that much about funding. And it was a really good first application to do because it was a lot... I feel like they really lay it out clearly and they offer a lot of support. So, yeah, it's been crucial. It helped me release my EP, my first EP, Redemption Songs. And we toured that around Glastonbury and all the festivals. So, yeah, it's really poignant. Yeah, no, it sounds it. And what else has that kind of enabled you to do that you might have not have been able to do otherwise? I think a lot of the marketing, when Youth Music funded me, it allowed me to like trial and error, different marketing.

32:01I also like was able to get equipment um like to upskill my socials like even my GoPro and um and the music videos to be honest like um my especially Redemption songs the actual song and we did a music video in Cambridge and I got a really good videographer and like I got to document my family and now that's on YouTube and that's like an archive and yeah I really appreciated that moment and it was definitely because of youth music that makes so much sense as well because like it's like you know an artist can't just arrive fully formed they actually kind of they gave you that space and the opportunity then to be able to sort of find out different things develop yourself because there's artist development at the end of the day as well so yeah no definitely i learned so much just from even just researching the things that i needed to buy and even just working out the budget and everything like yeah it's been really fruitful

32:53what are the sort of things that the grassroots need right now that can be provided from say a governmental perspective or anything like that? I think space, resources essentially, money, space and tools. So with money, talking about funding obviously, but we have to meet young creators where they are at the moment because the world society is so up against so many of us. A lot of people are congregating in collectives, much as they did in the late 80s, early 90s with the rise of Acid House and rave culture and so on. People had to come together because they weren't given spaces elsewhere. So I think funding, like micro-funding for collectives, micro-finance for collectives is really important.