Africa’s Real Estate Boom Is Just Getting Started | How to Invest Safely

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1:27Entrepreneurship for black Americans. This is the knowledge that actually matters. I applaud both of you for this. Thank you. Policy isn't a country issue. It's not an American issue. It's a world issue. He came to earn our leisure.

1:47So how'd you, how'd you like get started specifically in Africa, like doing this, like the relationship? When I was doing hospitality and running a hotel in south of France, I told myself either I go to Canada to work at the Sofitel at Montreal, or they offered me to come to Dakar to work at the Novotel Hotel here in Dakar. And I wanted to feel like home. I wanted to feel like I had an impact because when you go work in big cities, you just add some small percentage over small percentage, and you're just a number, they replace you. when you come here you'll become a player quickly so it's a bigger playground more interesting and then you can actually become a Carnegie of your area you can become a big investor whereas it's not impossible in big countries but the the struggle you have to go through the difficulties whatever you go through is too much headaches compared to the rewards and here you feel home and where are you originally from have you uh new york yeah both yeah yeah it's beautiful beautiful country definitely you see there's a lot that still has to be done but that's opportunity yeah lots of opportunity and the purchasing power when you're an american and you can put 100 grounds in a apartment and looking at uh roi around 10 percent not crazy it's interesting so like a hundred thousand and get you an apartment here yeah it can get you a one bedroom apartment um and now it's more running around 110 120 it keeps growing the two i have uh one bedroom apartment i bought them 80 000 each five years ago now they go around 80 uh 110 something but the return is very high because it's 23 percent how much is the rent uh it's uh in us two thousand approximately two thousand dollars so 24 a year so around in this area he in this area is going to be more like 1.5 1.6 do people um buy cash or they get mortgages in Africa they like cash they don't trust banks that much and they don't want to be in the system to show their earnings to show traceability so that they can leverage funds and bank system here is very tough like in us mortgage is like nothing you work a little and then you get it here you have to kill somebody to get to get the mortgage yeah it's very tough interest rate let's say it's eight seven eight that's not that but for for African market when you get the 24 % ROI you borrow money at eight makes sense it makes sense but we need to be careful and resist the urge to be in the formal kind of mentality and be rushing to buy land to buy apartment without thinking ahead that's the issue some people like they see the excitement and instead of taking the time they're going to formal modes and then you hear stories oh he came he brought 50k down payment and now he's never heard about his 50k more again you have to be careful let's talk about that because that's something that a lot of people are kind of nervous of like how do you avoid that yeah you have to go through the proper channels it cannot be you know a guy who knows a guy and he's going to help you out that's over forget about this anybody selling you that kind of let's say i know a guy who knows a guy half the time it's bullshit yeah you don't need to know a guy if you have money you go through the official channels everything's going to be fine with you official channels would be like a real estate agent yeah real estate agent a notary agents for example we sold this penthouse here to an american guy in texas uh top one uh 700 k and he insisted to go through the notary we went through the process we put the money in escrow accounts and no problem you know and he was insisting in procedures which was good how big how big is that it was about uh 250 square meter with a big balcony and you have a beautiful sea view from there to the ocean yeah is this building sold out uh 50 sold out but the company i run because we are um family investment funds and we don't depend on the sale to finish the property so we don't rush out to sell because we want to finish it and to sell at the highest price expected whereas when you need money you sell quickly early stage of the project to make sure you have the cash and then you build with the cash you've been given by the clients how's the um like is it like the land lease is it a land lease good question uh you have like three types of contracts one that is called I don't know in English deliberation is like the mayor of the city says if you have a project I will give you this land once you build the project we can make the paperwork so that you can get the official documents then you have the lease this is maybe 50 years 99 years once you have a real project then you can ask for a permanent title and then you have the permanent title which is something that you should always ask if you are foreign you come from outside africa ask for the official title what's the what's the what's the permanent title it's like titres foncier and it's like it's registered in the african constitution that it's yours forever regardless of the president regardless of the law it's um it's impossible for anybody to get that uh um land from you except if it gives you money in exchange is that only in this country or no a lot of countries in every notary whenever there is a lottery he has the power because he's a subsidiary of the state's power so he can say okay we signed together it's yours no matter what that's why always go through even the money you give never give it hand to hand to anybody it even if i sell you an apartment don't give it to me find a notary because legally speaking he has the required uh he's required to do the due diligence if he doesn't do it it's on him how competitive is this market like this area i think with all this coastal property and the appreciation for the land alone it has to be going up you know well yeah uh dakar is like an almost island yeah contrary to ivory coast abidjan which is a land city abidjan is growing like this exponentially without limits dakar is constrained to the top of the ocean so that everything on this coast is like miami style let's say the coast right then it's going high high high high because it's impossible to go to like in dubai you cannot go in the water so yeah prices are going high however rented rent are being stable that's why you have to be careful and start thinking ahead in an in a world where competition is high lots of supply lots of apartments which are the ones that your tenants will pick the first and this is where you have to invest uh are most people more likely to go closer to the water or is it just something that's walking distance so let's say they're going to look at schools schools and business districts in in senegal water is not something that deep right because they're used to it in cabo verde water is not that deep so but for expats.com water is a small factor but they will not compromise distance or distance for water so how far are we from the business district here uh something to know dakar is split split into two areas you're where you are in numen as a line it's the the middle that you're in the middle you can go both ways here you're in almadie area the other side is business district area so there is its own life here business district etc and there is its own life over there it's very rare that you have somebody that lives here and go in the morning works over there it's like one one one hour and a half they're not going to do it they're going to find a way to live here and work here live there and work there unless you really have to so like for people what's the biggest opportunity you think just in africa period right now for like the average the average person that that wants to invest in africa good question well because of the operation risks i i cannot recommend uh let's say agriculture industry manufacturing those are opportunities but the operational risks are too high so your money is too much at risk so for me i will focus on real estate because of let's say the stability and the predictability of it you invest in farming if and you don't live here you have no idea whatever the guy is doing with your money how serious he is is he selling at the right price is he producing at the right by his employees are they being legally uh contracted etc etc so i would say for this confederation it's real estate then if you let's say um come from the us and then you want to come and start to live here then i would be open to any kind of business you can go into hospitality um there is an american woman here she's not american but she studied in us a long a lot of time she has two hotels here they're working um let's say services also i think we just met with swadu i i had lunch today and yesterday at her restaurant in fun she's great so i do um so hospitality is okay um let's say financial service also is okay raising money if you have the ability to raise us money and bring it to africa then you can make a lot of money but again you have to find way to make this money safe as well so it's a headache also uh people say oil and gas but can the common person going oil and gas so for me when you have a 50k to 200k real estate so for entrepreneurs that are here in senegal obviously you studied you studied in paris came here what does it look like for young entrepreneurs are there people like yourself that are talking to young people here to educate them on the process of real estate um well i have for instance i will take my example i have my platform with my podcast and the reason why i wanted to create that podcast is because one of the thing in the black community is that there is a shortage of information it's not that we don't have the resources it's not that we don't have the opportunity or the skills there is a shortage of accessing information succession how to build your real estate uh LLC what you should do when you get your first money what do you do with it do you spend it on let's say expendable goods or do you invest in land in properties etc and accessing information in Africa is definitely key definitely key so So more and more platforms are doing this, let's say in Ivory Coast.

13:54In Senegal, also it's starting. Some of them in France also are starting, but we still need more. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart. Streaming, radio and podcasting. Call 844-844-IHEART to get started.

14:27That's 844-844-IHEART. More. We need more and more content creators to bring awareness. And awareness brings level of expectations, brings a level of performance. When people know that you cannot easily get around their knowledge and let's say light them. Sounds like another opportunity. Absolutely. information what you guys are doing there is a void in what you guys are doing the bridge but in Africa and America let's say North America at large has to still be fulfilled yeah 100 % what do you what do you think this country will be like in 10 years in the whole continent like in 10 years what do you how do you think this is gonna look at 10 years let's say First thing that I want to mention is that the African continent is a very young continent.

15:23So anything that has to do with the youth and the next generation, whether it's communication, whether it's technology, whether it's education, whether it's housing, everything that has to do with the young people getting older, it's a big, let's say, matter and topic. also the growing of the middle class. We've known a gap between, let's say, the lesser revenues kind of population and the high, high, high revenues. There is a big discrepancy between the two. And now if we take the example of ivory cost, this gap is getting smaller and smaller. you have a middle class that is now starting to require services requiring quality experience restaurants clothes and they don't they no longer want to only look at the west to say okay i have a little money i will spend it in paris i will spend it in new york what can i do if i'm a senegalese and travel to ivory cost i'm an ivory cost and travel to senegal what can i have as a product so the middle class and every service you can do for the middle class is very important and also what i want to mention is that when you want to invest in africa most people let's say will focus on luxury goods luxury service and only high level which is a niche and it's getting crowded in that niche what can we do for the middle class what are the mass market product that I can create for that middle class.

16:58When you travel to different countries, you said Benin, Cote d 'Ivoire, Morocco, as obviously real estate developer, but also as a consultant. What are the things that you were advising them based on the countries? Well, if we focus on real estate, the first thing I would tell my big investors or the state I advise is to run away from ego investment. Let's say real estate and hospitality are huge platform for ego assets. I'm the biggest player in town, I want the biggest building. I'm the biggest player in town, I want the biggest tower, even though it doesn't respond to a need. So the first thing I say is make sure you do your due diligence in the market you're going to tackle.

17:47I know it's a basic, it seems basic, but you have no idea how much ego investment is big here. So if you want to invest in, let's say, residential real estate, where are the schools? Where are the work centers? Where are the shops? What time does it take to go from this point to the other point? Is it safe? What are the rents? How much did you have to invest to produce that rent? And when you sort out all those questions already, that's a big, big, big investment. And also I advise them to focus on people. Again, it seems like a basic, but school and education and professionalism is a very paramount stake for Africa.

18:34if you want to build your factory your hotel your project an engineering company construction company you're going to spend most your time creating skill um automatization reporting process you will spend all your time in the basics not in the fancy stuff of the branding the naming the the innovation that's that's an easy so the last thing i would say is that in africa innovation and new ideas let's say it's okay but the most important is the quality of your execution can you execute can you go from point a to point b can you gather around you the good guys to work with you can you report can you follow process can you help other people follow process execution is key the middle class like how much do you how much does the middle class make and good question um it's hard to have numbers let's say but what i've observed based on my previous uh occupations is that um in let's say in ivory costs um you can have middle class start winning from 1000 us uh to even 1.5 000 2 000 and for ivory costs then it's it's a nice kind of living you cannot have access to the best real estate property with that kind of money but you can have a very good living for rent for rent for rent and for everything i even question that a guy that makes 1.5 here live significantly better than a guy that makes 1.5 in france significantly better u.s or euros thousand thousand five hundred dollars uh yeah 1.5 thousand dollars a month a month that's how much money they make yeah you can have that and you can live off of that yeah definitely yeah yeah definitely yeah yeah imagine that let's say the common salaries uh that you find in restaurants in the hotels in construction work is around roughly 200 and 250 uh euros us a month yes for construction for construction entry level i mean for waiting tables uh entry-level jobs those are numbers 250 a month yeah so when you reach 1 000 you make 1 000 a month you're in the middle class it's hard to define let's say because we don't have the right stats numbers but you're you're good enough that you can start to invest to save yeah and that's why you have to be smart because most people who have salary gap positive salary gap instead of keeping the same lifestyle and the extra is for saving or investing all of a sudden they change lifestyle how much money do you need to be rich here well monthly or just or just yeah somebody it's like so quick because i'm asking because yeah people think a lot some people are thinking about moving to africa okay and in america they might be middle class yeah but here they might they might be rich right what what is the the middle class let's say salary first new york is crazy but let's say america just america yeah america i would say a hundred thousand dollars with that kind of money you're you're well off here really yeah yeah single person or family i mean you're saying like in middle america even if you have two household and you make that kind of money you have a business that can be operated from distance and then you work from here and you make that kind of money yeah you can invest you can so if you make let's say five thousand dollars a month yeah then you're you're doing good yeah you're doing really good you're wealthy no you're not wealthy but you're doing good yeah you're doing good because you have a wealthy class here that is that i believe is in the same level of as the wealthy class wherever you okay yeah in france or in the u.s it's not like um let's say common but you can find some of them so you said you started in hospitality so now i want to reverse engineer it there's somebody right now that's working in hospitality maybe at the noon what were you taking notes on what were you learning that you're implementing now okay um in hospitality i learned um the execution if you have a group of 20 person that comes to your hotel in 20 minutes they want their rooms they don't want to talk to you they don't want excuses they're tired they're hot you need to deliver there is there is a ending time and that is something that helped me a lot to help my team reach that level of demanding expectation that no excuses and when you work in hospitality no excuse is possible there is a human being that will come to you shout at you be mad at you right now you cannot invent something so execution is the first thing anticipation like I don't believe, that's my philosophy, that you can have bad employees, but you can have negligent leadership.

23:53For example, if you as a leader, you make sure you prepare your team to anticipate, to ask the right question, to implement the right moves. And as well, you make sure you accept the demand that you can respond to. because some business owner just for the appetite of the revenue then they will say okay yes come in i can accept you i can welcome you but you can't it's better you say okay look i can welcome only 50 of you not 100 of you and do it well then say okay come the 100 and then be shouting at your team because they're unable to perform at the 100 people you wanted to welcome so leadership and smart and anticipating leadership is key and lastly something that is very important is to adapt to many cultures i think it's overrated to talk about africa now you have north africa and you have many north africa you have west africa and you have many west africa and in central africa and south africa east africa when you work in hospitality then you see all of those culture combining and working together and you know how to adapt to each and every one of them so one thing that we should do is to limit our reference and i do it myself also a long time as africa and start being more precise and like we say we say new york we say miami then we need to get in that point where we say dakar abidjan yamey uh nairobi etc etc point taken but i'm the first one who still also do it I think that it has power both ways like it has power as a collective Africa yeah but it also has power like you said just not looking at it as a as one either for people when something happens in one place then it's just like something happens in Congo then it happens like that's how people are thinking like that's what it's like they don't understand it's like could be an eight-hour flight it'd be the same thing I guess something happened in Mexico you wouldn't be looking at New York City that's a very key points let me emphasize on something let's say 20 years ago in hospitality in Africa let's say Ivory Coast Senegal Guinea 65 % to 70 % of your travelers were European or north american 65 to 70 percent the drawback of that is that they are very sensitive to changes in reputation changes in landscape changes in political landscape etc you hear about covid everybody leaves ebola everybody leaves political issue everybody leaves africa now there is a shift a shift where now about 60 percent of your travelers come from africa north africa ivory coast senegal mali the gambia ghana nigeria which means that exactly what you said when a guy from nigeria hears about the conflict in let's say lome is not going to be scared to go to abidjan He knows the landscape, which is something that is very good for us to have our own autonomous local market.

27:15That is very, very important and it's growing now. That's why I'm saying let's not only focus on luxury goods. Let's also learn how to manufacture, let's say, mid-scale range products or even mass market products. Which markets do you like outside of Dakar? obviously you brought up Ivory Coast, I think Abidjan is definitely one. Concordia, we were just there in Guinea. What markets in West Africa, are there some in East Africa as well? You mentioned Nairobi, we've been there. Let's say from a very subjective standpoint, Bena, because also I'm from Haiti, both my parents, although I've never been, um and Ben has been doing a really great work for the light 10 years the president has officially announced that he will leave democratically and which is a big step for African countries the African countries are so much in the the appetite to develop than when you give them stability it sky rocks so the first gift we should uh wish for africa is political stability regime stability and benan has shown that and bena is doing a crazy great work with the new sofitel hotel with the events they do at the end of the year every end of december which is very very very high demand and great events if you love music they have also we da where they do the voldo days also is a great work the city is very clean and uh let's say also i look at gyneia right now uh i know you've been there recently and also there is a huge appetite to build to develop and and and they are very very ambitious we you've talked to john i think recently and is an example of effication of that um let's say i've been impressed with morocco i've been impressed with morocco i was in morocco 20 years ago 15 years ago 10 years ago every five years i go there and i say what's going on how how are they able to execute that quick their vision i'm impressed with that the malls the hotels how clean it is it's not perfect as you can hear recently there are some protests and nothing is perfect but when you look from an outside point of view i can see from a subjective point of view the progress let's say those are the countries i'm looking at right now well thank you man thank you for taking your time i appreciate you thank you for taking it's um really got a lot of great insight from this man my pleasure and um i'm very happy because i have my cousins in the u.s uh east torrents new jersey uh in new york in boston in Miami and I'm always happy when they ask about Africa and they want to discover their roots because let's say 20 years ago it was not something that was obvious for a black American to say I'm from Africa and now I don't know if it's thanks to the Afrobit, thanks to the marketing, thanks to Wakanda, thanks to I don't know but it's becoming more and more trendy to say I'm from Africa I don't mind the reason the key is that we're getting together and the ability for black African and black American and black French to come together as a whole and to collaborate as a high scale without unhealthy competition, that's the main asset that we can wish for us.

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