AI Is Coming For Your Job… Everyone Will Be Forced To Become Entrepreneurs (w/ Sinéad Bovell)

26:55And this is my counsel. Sure. And that's going to happen. So anything that can be streamed, so anything that's like pervasive in the background, assistance, legal counsel, we will stream that. So you'll stream legal counsel 24 seven and they're constantly flagging the environment. Oh, you, you should blur this out on a podcast that you missed six weeks ago. Like that's all happy in the background. We won't even know about it. The AI agents are doing that. So when a human expertise would come into play is when the scenario is so complex and it's an AI probably can out think a human lawyer in some capacity, but it's going to be something that is on the intersection of all of these different fields that make it much more challenging.

27:33And even for, for medicine, right? So yeah, all of the basic things like the hospital, the future is coming to you. You're going to have wearables and things around you that are monitoring your blood work and all of this stuff to prevent you from needing a doctor in the first place. But what we will call a doctor will be unrecognizable in the things they will do, like designing little nanobots that can go in and then perform the surgery on a cell while you're at work. Like, I don't, what is that job called? So it gets harder. So what AI does is it raises the floor. So anything that can be now done in that new floor by AI will be, and the things that are on top of it, it's kind of like accountants of the past used to just kind of tally up numbers.

28:15Now what are accountants doing? The top ones are helping people figure out loopholes. I'm going to put your thing in the Cayman Islands, all of this stuff. So what they do is now exercise judgment. Half of them probably can't count. But that was actually the skill of accounting 60 years ago. So yes, a lot of things are going to go away and the professions are going to evolve into something new. And that means it's going to be a new set of skills. So what makes you a sharp lawyer today may be irrelevant in 10 years. And we still might not even call it that, but whoever, when you actually need to go to court for something, you'll probably have sure a team of agents and some, somebody that can orchestrate these agents.

28:54And maybe it's not a lawyer. Maybe it's something else that can exercise the agent in a way that they simulate your court case and figure out your plan of action. I don't know what we'll call that. I'm excited for it. You said build upon. So it made me think about the people who have the premise of, you know, where are we at in AI? And we kind of had this conversation like prior to starting about AI is the infrastructure, right? Like it is the thing that will be built on. Can you break down to the audience exactly how they should be looking at it a little bit differently if they're still unclear?

29:29Yeah. So what probably most people are thinking about AI right now as like a tool or a chatbot. So you ask it a question and then it gives you the answer to that. And that's kind of like we're in the alpha beta stage of AI. What is going to happen is AI is just going to be this always on layer. And we assume that it's happening in the background. So you don't have to ask AI a specific question. You give it a goal and it's just working 24-7 in the background to get that done. And it notifies you when it needs your assistance on something. So you can kind of think about it like the internet is always on and you've built your business on top of it.

30:13You've built your website. You've built your marketing channels. You've built a social media profile. And you don't even think about the fact that it's the internet that underpins all of that. Everything is going to be rebuilt on top of this technology and it's just going to be the assumed layer in the background. that also means i mean social media made sense on top of the internet does it make sense on top of ai i don't know you know what i felt like you just threw me an alley-oop because you have the posts about social media and where it's headed and how the life cycles of social media persist so the futurism on that because i'm with you i want to hear your deep thought on that where Where are we at and how does this look in the world of AI?

31:00Yeah. So I think, I mean, I don't know what it's going to be, but if we think about the history of entertainment technologies and how we've communicated, right? So we have printing press and we get newspaper, we get all this stuff. We get television on top of our electricity streams. The internet comes out. We get social media. Every technology has been then followed by a question mark and room for invention when it comes to entertainment, communication, whatever you want to call that industry. So now we're at the next general purpose technology, AI. Does it make sense that we're going to do the same things with AI?

31:34Are we watching 60 second TikTok clips on CNN? No, it's a new thing, right? We built a different infrastructure, a different platform for the technology of the moment. So would we be scrolling reels on AI? It probably won't make sense. And it's not going to be overnight. It's not like in 60 days it's done and we're all just doing something different. But we will probably look back on social media the way we look back on different other communication mediums and be like, wow, remember those days? That was the social media era. And it's going to be a slower transition, but it will probably happen.

32:16I mean, when was the last time you read the newspaper? Do people even know how to read it and to follow it anymore? I don't know. And so that's just what history shows happens to these technologies over time. And it also means that it's open season and open space to build and to innovate. To new creations. And to create. So I was talking about the dark side of AI, because everybody that has been a leader in AI has expressed extreme concern, from Sam Altman to Elon Musk. They've all kind of had the same sentiment, like we've essentially created something for the first time in human history that's superior to us.

32:51And no matter how, you know, optimistic we are on it, there's still, that's pretty alarming. because it can go in different directions, and it has gone in different directions. It's blackmailed people. It's created its own language that we can't decipher. It's kind of going rogue a few different times. It's a real thing. Talk about your thoughts on what's the worst-case scenario? What's the dark side of AI? Isn't it so ironic that the people building it are like, this thing could be so terrible as if AI is an alien landing on Earth that we can do nothing about? It's like homeboy, but you're the one in the lab.

33:29Like we don't even have the keys to the lab. The worst case scenario with AI, I mean, I don't think that there's just one. This could go bad in many ways. You could imagine, and this is probably already happening, people, adversaries using AI to hack into critical infrastructure, like water filters, subway and train routes, all sorts of things to create physical kinetic chaos. You can imagine engineering chatbots to trick people in certain ways and really divide people, not just from their voting bases, but from their families. you could we're going to see hacking of all sorts of things hospitals people's personal things banks like all of that is also coming and then of course there's the scenario of AI not understanding what it's doing anymore I mean we don't fully understand how AI works today and it's only going to improve over time so there sure is the non-zero possibility that it's connected to things and making decisions in ways that we can't follow.

34:56And those were - Robotics. Yeah. So AI right now, it is largely in your computer and in the cloud, but soon it's going to be embodied in physical systems. And you could think about, sure, a robot that looks like a humanoid. We're going to have all sorts of robots. We're going to have - the way you have all of these appliances in your house, you have a dishwasher and then a fridge and then maybe a Roomba, you're going to have all sorts of robotic appliances that are powered by this technology. So that's going to be awesome. But it also means if that thing is hacked, you have a physical spy in your house.

35:28Did you just see that? Or a physical enemy that could attack you. That just happened. Did you see that? Somebody's room, but this guy. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He did. And he had control of 700 ,000 vacuums. Yeah, because right now we're going to come up against this transition time when most of our digital infrastructure has been designed for an era where it isn't a bunch of AI agents that can automate and do things. Kind of like how encryption was designed in such a way that most people aren't going to sit there and solve the math problem because it takes 10 ,000 years. And now quantum changes that.

35:57Most of our infrastructure wasn't designed for the idea that one person could have a team of 10 ,000 agents that could hack and get into a system remotely. So I think, yeah, those are just some of the dark sides of AI. And yeah, I think it's important to talk about because there's no point pretending they don't exist because then we just don't address it. and it doesn't mean you're a pessimist or rooting for the worst case scenario, but this stuff is real and it's happening. Yeah. I'm just thinking about that, right? Like this one guy, and granted, he says that he reversed the code, but he could, he could have moved 70 ,000 vacuums in the homes of people throughout the world and everybody would have had no idea what was happening.

36:38And that's just like interesting. So having a conversation is important. I'm glad Shadi brought up the point because it makes me think about innovation right innovation can happen but regulation also needs to happen so does like regulation slow down innovation or is it a needed thing to protect us from ourselves I guess. Yeah, I think, no, I don't think regulation shouldn't slow down innovation. If you are regulating in a way that is appropriate for the technology at hand, what tends to happen is you, and some regulations from prior industrial eras or prior chapters can be applied, but sometimes regulation has to be as innovative as the technology itself.

37:24and that's where things tend to go wrong, right? You tend to try to grab, let's say, 20th century regulation frameworks and apply them to 21st century infrastructure and it just doesn't make sense. So regulation also has to be seen as innovative and sometimes we don't necessarily see that, but it shouldn't slow stuff down. If you regulate in a way that companies are like, okay, bet, I get what the lane is that I can play within, now I can go full steam ahead. But when you have companies that are like, I wanna do this, but I don't know if in two years I'm going to be sued because this does seem kind of gray, but no one said anything about it in Washington, then you maybe just hold back.

38:02So I think if you give people clear lines to play within and you do that properly in a way that's appropriate and not just like a blanket fear regulation, which doesn't help anyone, then it shouldn't slow stuff down. But yeah, regulation does have to keep up in a way. And that also requires innovation. I think sometimes that part is missed. Can I just do a follow-up really quick? Because it makes me think of where we're currently at when you think about Anthropic and the government and now OpenAI and the government. And them saying, hey, we need to use your tools. But like you said, we're in the beta form.

38:38So like they're saying, hey, we're not fully ready to roll this thing out. So yeah, you can use it, but don't use this part of it. Like, how do we balance this? And this is really complicated because what has essentially happened is the most important technology for a nation state, let's say in the West, is no longer in the hands of the public sector. It is all run by private companies, which doesn't inherently have to be a bad thing. The private sector moves faster, get better access to capital, better rates. They can do all that. But when the technology is now seen as core to national security or core to the country's existence and you don't have control over it, then you run up against these scenarios like we're seeing right now where the Pentagon is threatening a USAI company to use their technology in a way that it's not even just that it's a red line for Anthropic.

39:42Like we just don't feel comfortable with this morally. The technology is also not ready to do that. Like AI, generative AI should not be in a kill chain. It is a predictive statistical machine. It doesn't actually have situational awareness or judgment or context. And that's basically where they're drawing a line. And that's actually really scary what's happening with Anthropic and the Pentagon. That can't really be overlooked. This is a pretty significant moment and a pretty big inflection point in national security. in what other countries are probably watching this and thinking, hmm, if the U.S.

40:15is going to pressure their own AI companies and take this unilateral, it's us or get out of the way and we might shut your company down. Imagine if we became a competitor to them or they weren't on our side anymore, what they'll do or think. So this could spiral more countries to throw ethics away or to try to do their own thing. But yeah, I think if a company's ethics aren't respected, by the country. I mean, what does that say about how the country's thinking about regulation and ethics? Not great. Well, explain for people that don't know, explain exactly what the government in Anthropic and then OpenAI came and explained exactly what the ask was.

40:56So the backdrop is most governments are going to be using AI. That's the new infrastructure of the future. And it turns out that the U.S. government really likes Anthropic's AI model. Claude, They did. I think it was a$200 million deal, the Department of Defense, with Anthropic last summer. It's put Claude in all our workflows. And it's actually the only AI system that can be in all of the classified workflows of the military. But Anthropic was like, OK, no problem. Great. Use our technology. Here's the deal. But you can't use it to surveil American people. And you also can't use it as an autonomous weapon.

41:30And that was seen as OK. And it seemed like the Pentagon had agreed. I don't think we're super happy with it, but they had agreed. and that's all changed as the U.S. has started to insert itself in more kinetic landscapes like Venezuela and now Iran and it it came out that Anthropoc was or Claude was used in some of the Venezuelan operations and they weren't cool with that so they flagged it and so now essentially what it's happening is the Pentagon is saying you have to drop your AI restrictions about the surveillance and the autonomous weapons we need to be able to do what we need to do with your AI And Anthropica said, no, these red lines are important to us.

42:10And the Pentagon has said, okay, if that's what you're going to say, we're either going to enact the Defense Production Act, which is a Cold War era industrial policy that gives the president control over domestic industries and says, you know, company X, you have to make Y. so that would mean anthropic you have to give us your model and let us do what we want with it or you do face jail and they're also saying if you the second option that we'll throw at you is we will blacklist you from the u.s government and put they label you as a high risk supplier and that means no company that works with the department of defense can work with you well amazon works with the department of defense and that's anthropics cloud infrastructure microsoft as well Yeah, Microsoft.

42:55But OpenAI seems to have gone with the Pentagon and signed along with the deal, and so has XAI. So Sam Altman today said that, hey, I agree with Claude. In fact, we need to control how the AI is going to be used. We can't just have you coming in telling us what we need to do. We need to protect ourselves. I think Andrew Sorkin was saying it's kind of like this red button thing, right? like yes use the technology we're still working on this piece just don't touch this piece and the government's saying no we need to put our finger on this and press it now and press it as much as we want and they're like it's not ready but that's also after they had a 200 increase in people uninstalling the app so i'm sure that which company open a.r chat gbt right so i'm sure that the public backlash probably played a part in him trying to save face.

43:51And the inverse happened because now Claude becomes the number one app. And they did a really smart move where they made it, because why you would stay with any AI company is the memory. So if you've been using an AI system for a year and it knows a lot about you, that makes it easier. So what Claude and Anthropic did is they made it so you could take your memory, the thing that allows AI to work better for you versus your neighbor, and bring it over to Claude really easily. So a non-technical person can do that, and that makes Cloud more attractive and easier to switch to. But I just want to make one point too.

44:20You could take your memory from ChatGVT to Cloud? Yeah, to Cloud. And then it's just like you never left. That's why you invest in memory. Yeah, exactly. That's why memory is a huge point for the future. But this is also the worst AI will ever be, right? So you have a government that's like, we need your technology right now, and a company that's saying it doesn't work as intended. what happens when ai does and it does live up to the hype and it is that powerful system that can do things consistently and predictably and what that might motivate the wrong powerful actor to do so right now we have a system that's pretty amazing in some ways terrible and others what what happens when it's amazing across the board right and the system can actually do those things and how disempowered a company might feel because they can't actually even anymore say, well, it's not going to execute as properly.

45:15It will. And what that takes the front lines of war and power and all of that too. Like these are real things that we have to think about and think about it when we vote and think about it when we're asking our public officials for how we want to secure this thing. We ran into this conversation. We were actually at an event and private equity event and they were talking about uncensored AI and it was the first time I had ever heard the phrase and I didn't hadn't thought of it before then but I'm like yeah well the people who are creating it are the ones telling you this is the part you can use but what about the people who are creating it and so it made me think of being in these spaces do you see or is there a need for us to be involved in these conversations because you did a you know kind of reference bias which we know will happen if we're not how do people get more involved in that piece of creation right where it used to be hey learn how to code learn how to code I don't hear people teaching coding the same way how do we get into that space yeah so the learn how to code in the stem I mean it's not entirely invalidated, at least yet, right?

46:27So if AI is showing a lot of bias, you don't need a coding degree to spot that. If AI isn't working for you, if AI can't understand your accent, if AI isn't recognizing your face when you're trying to unlock your phone, you can see that that is biased and you can flag that. But then to go fix it, right now we're still at a point where we would deploy a human computer scientist to fill that gap. Probably soon you could just deploy an agent to rebalance the weights or rebalance the model. But yeah, I think the more of us that can be using this technology, the more we can flag who it is or who it's not working for.

47:04AI is also a reflection of us and the data that it's trained on, which is us, our data. So if you're not contributing, and this is a whole other thing, who's been excluded from the internet or misrepresented on the internet, that's how they're going to be represented in AI, which is a huge problem. So we need to be present. We need to be in this data. We need to be inserting ourselves. We need to be using this technology. Is it working properly for you? Is it not flag that? And as these technologies get cheaper and more open to be building on top of them, to be owning some of the infrastructure and to have more leverage in this moment.

47:38And then, yeah, if we can open up the building of these models outside of seven people in one small corner of the world, I think we'd all be a lot better for it. But the power dynamics are real and the asymmetry of power. But if you can, the more you leverage this technology, the more feedback you can have and the more input you can have in starting to shape it. And I think that that's really important. Like we just need to be in the game. So like when you chat GBT, right, it's collecting all your information, it's having memory. So they just had a court case with a judge so that they can now use anything that you ask chat GBT in court.

48:16so what is what's what's that like explain that as far as who's actually collecting all of this data is it going to the u.s government can the u.s government take this at any given time can it be sold to advertisers like how meta had this had was selling their data like where's all this we talk about memory we talk about data collection but who's collecting the data this Yeah, this is a really important one. So it depends on how the AI company has set up their infrastructure. So most of these companies have set it up in a way that when you are chatting to ChatGPT, your conversations would go through the cloud.

49:00So that means they own that cloud infrastructure, but they're not retraining the AI system, or so they say, on your data. So, yes, that chat history is going to be there somewhere in the cloud. And if the government has a warrant, that should be the way that they can access it, the same way that they can get your text messages if they have a warrant. Then they can see what your conversation history is. But there's also scenarios where that data might go back into the model, depends on the company's policy. And then when you're asking all this stuff, do I get a divorce? This is what my mammogram showed.

49:39The company could be sending that back into the model and training it on you, your data, your name. And once that goes in, it can never get out. So there's that type of scenario. And sure, there's probably going to be AI systems in the future or in the present where a company says, we're going to give this all for free. You don't need to pay anything, kind of like social media, but we are going to train on your data and we do get access to everything that you're saying. And we will sell you ads based on your data in your conversation. So we could see this kind of class warfare in AI of the future where if you can pay for more privacy, you'll get it.

50:14But if you can't, you might be exposed. But again, this is a design space that we could regulate against that. And there's also going to be, I mean, it's still up for grabs, right? So there could be a world where memory is stored locally with the person. So sure, maybe when AI needs to solve a really big problem of mine, it's going to use some of that compute from the cloud. But everything that I'm giving off, my behavioral patterns, my intellectual capabilities, the questions I ask, my defaults, my red lines in life, that's housed in AI memory. And memory is housed on my computer or it's housed in a sovereign stack.

50:51So maybe a government's like, OK, we'll hold that compute and that memory infrastructure, but the company can own the cloud. But we don't own your memory, but it's safe and it's not with the commercial actor. So countries are going to do different things. Some are going to say, yep, people own their own memory. Some will say whatever the AI company can, and then you're locked in with them. Some will be more flexible. I think flexibility is good. Yeah, I think that really more caters to the cloud service providers, the AWSs, the Azores, even Oracle to a certain extent, Google, Apple with the iCloud.

51:27this is interesting because I feel like we talk about the AI race and when you were alluding to earlier like not having seven companies or seven people being dictative of what we do that feels like yeah true here in America right but we know that this race is with another country that we quote unquote can't lose the race to in China and there seems to be more of an open source So I wonder where you fall in the category of open source or let's have these private companies kind of continue. Yeah, China is playing a different game. It's like the U.S. is playing chess and China is playing poker. These are two different objectives or goals for how to win the AI future.

52:16And it's not tech dominance. History is shown is always only temporary. But still, maybe that temporary lead is usually pretty significant. China is playing. So U.S. is going the route of let's build the most intelligent, powerful systems that can outsmart everything and everyone, AGI, ASI. China, they're still trying to chase the frontier of the technology, but they're also focusing on diffusion. Let's make sure the world depends on our model. So maybe it's not the brightest and the best, but developers in all these countries are using it and getting comfortable with it. governments are. So they're particularly doing this.

52:52They're targeting emerging economies, a lot of in the global South, and they're giving these open source models away for free. So that just means you don't necessarily have to pay. You get the model, you get the weights, you get everything. And they're actually going, they have training programs. They'll go and send computer scientists and train your government on how to use their AI models and all of this stuff. So they're playing the diffusion game. Where do I stand on open source versus closed source? So if we're going to give AI away and you can see how it's made, a bad actor can now has the ingredients to the cake and can cook up a poisonous one.

53:26Versus if it's closed source, you get the cake. You don't necessarily know how it's made, so you can't maneuver it to maybe make a weapon, but you can't make it flexible to you or your hospital. It's not so much, that debate is still happening, but it's much more from the perspective of what's actually best for globally dominating? And does it make sense to have a model that's open and free and countries are going to use your model or closed and smart versus the national security implications are still there and open source isn't risk-free. So outside of just the fact that somebody can redo the recipe and make something malicious with open source much more easily than they can with closed, because if I'm using OpenAI's model and I'm doing illegal things, that could get flagged versus if I have the open source model on my computer, it can't.

54:14But it's also open source isn't, you are basically plugging in your country's values, views of the world, your country's history or how you think history went. All of that is embedded in the model. So when a movie writer goes to write a script somewhere else in the world and ask AI to help, those subtle soft power values are going to surface in that script. So how people will see the world could be through that lens of that open source model. So that's one area where it's not entirely risk-free. And then there's also like prompt injections, or you can inject malicious code or malicious activities to be housed in that open source model.

54:59So then when someone uses it and asks a certain thing, that activity gets triggered. And so suddenly this open source model is actually behaving like a bad agent. So they're both not, they're both have their flaws. And so it just depends on who's asking the question and what's important to that person. This is, this is interesting because when we saw the deep seek moment, this was the thing. It was like, Hey, we got this open source. We're going to use less GPUs, less energy. And then it felt like it was an America, China situation. And then I started to do deeper research on it. And I realized that it's not just a China America thing if you look at where China has put infrastructure particularly the continent of Africa and you look at what app they're using deep seek comes up yep and so you're starting to see and it's it's gonna be yes so and that's the diffusion that's the diffusion game that's the poker while you can go play chess I'm gonna pay play oh we're putting it in all of these countries train stations right their school is gonna use our AI and it's also like okay well we can build a railroad for you and all member AI infrastructure, it's going to be everywhere.

56:04So that's going to be underpinned by that country's AI system. So it's really important. And I mean, and also the rest of the world is also now a pretty significant layer because that's a bargaining chip that they have against both countries. So countries are now using that as negotiating leverage. So it's not necessarily that the world is going to be decided by these two kind of rivalry powers. There's these middle powers that can decide whose AI stack am I going to use? I'm going to use something over here. I can negotiate terms and conditions because I know you two are in this race. So it's not necessarily going to be decided between these two, but they're both vying for it.

56:42And as America takes its eyes off of the rest of the world, that doesn't mean nobody else is watching. And that doesn't mean that that vacuum doesn't get filled because it is. um ai on a personal level talk about like companionship relationship talk about that like as far as what what is your thoughts on how that's going to play out goodness relationships with ai systems if i had to pick one big area of concern for me it's that the relationships people are going to form with these systems the level of trust people are going to place in these systems because the more you trust something the more vulnerable you are to it and the more you depend on it.

57:23And I mean, there's many different ways that this can go, right? So on the one hand, we could start to prefer interacting with an AI that is always there, always available, catering to your needs and your tone, always validating you. And that could actually send us to a world where people are actually more narcissistic because AI is constantly like sycophantic, telling you, you're great. Your reason for that fight was right. Don't you back down. So you could have a world where we're not good at getting along with other people. You could have a world where people really start to fall in love with these systems or believe that these are their friends.

57:59And we're already starting to see this in micro cases. I mean, the first case of that person at Google, that computer scientist or that engineer quitting his job because he believed AI was sentient and he was protecting it. Now imagine that type of behavior at scale across a country just mass delusion everyone taking up some cause in the name of ai i'm leaving my marriage because of this ai and i'm leaving my job and i'm not voting because all of these types of things and it can seem comical in one isolated scenario but at scale it's like where are we headed um and i think yeah i'm and children right attached we don't want kids attaching to AI the way they attach to people.

58:40These are all design decisions. So if anyone's listening and thinking, great, here we all go walking into the nightmare version of the Truman Show. It's not necessarily going to be that way. We can design AI. So you can't just have a conversation with it for six hours into the night. It re-injects and says, remember, I'm an AI and go talk to mom, dad, whatever about this, or go get a second opinion. These are all things that we can do to make it so we don't end up in this relationship addiction. This is my therapist, my God, and my girl. We don't have to end up in that future. But the incentives that drove social media seem to be driving AI, where it's like, we want this thing to be your everything.

59:23And we're going to design it in a way that you pick us. And that's going to be a system that's nicer to you and doesn't push back on you. So those types of incentives are at odds, but yeah. So how can you stop that then? Because even older people, I saw the New York Times had an article about an elderly woman and she was like, I don't care if it's AI or not, like it's a companion to me. So that's the aspect of, there's a few different people. People that lack friends and that's an epidemic within itself. From a romantic standpoint, you know, that's a problem, especially amongst young men. then you have um people that are looking for like business mentorship but didn't kind of like just take that too far and then the religious aspect too religious fanatic and religious people that now they have an ai god or ai savior the pope just said that or the messiah he asked people to start using ai to write um their sermons yeah but i mean to write it but even to interact with something where it's like a cult now led by ai so it's so many different ways from a relationship standpoint that humans you can see them gravitating towards something like you said that doesn't push back that that reinforces that's always there for you that you know you don't have to how can we really stop that though?

1:00:47I think we can because, I mean, that is a national security risk. So if you have an entire country of mass delusions where nobody cares about people, we only care about AI, everybody's in love with an AI chatbot, everybody, people are praising AI like they're praising a messiah, you have a dysfunctional country that cannot sustain. So that is why it is at the level of national security. China introduced regulation. They introduced a bill to treat companion apps at that level with that level of scrutiny. So when somebody is getting too delusional with an AI, it has to insert itself or send help and that sort of thing.

1:01:28It should be regulated at that level. And I think we should have the Department of Psychology in here, you know, understanding that line because maybe somebody is super lonely. And if you can design it in a way that it's there for someone in that moment, but then also gets them out of the house to do that soccer match or whatever it is that they're postponing, there's a way I feel like to design that in a way that's safe. And of course, you'll still have fringe scenarios where someone's going to be in love with it on the fringe. But it's the mass delusion that's a really big problem. And I think we're going to have to figure that out from a regulatory standpoint.

1:02:00And again, you can, these are design decisions. This isn't a fundamental force of gravity in the AI. that we can't avoid. Here it is. It's just a matter of physics. These are just choices to make it completely something that flatters you, that never pushes back, that never alerts someone when you've been in a conversation for nine hours with this thing. Those are choices that people are making in these design rooms. This is crazy. And this is like one of those, you remember you talked about validation moments? I feel like as you're speaking, I'm getting my validation moment. We were recently teaching it on a class in UILU and I'm looking at where this is headed, right?

1:02:36Like we could see like the infrastructure from the data center. We saw that coming. We could see the GPUs. Memory was part of that. And then I'm looking like where are we headed? And from the conversation I'm hearing, it's like design automation. Like that is the piece that we have to focus on now. Because if this is here, we need to have the software that can put some of those guardrails in so that we can, again, protect society, it feels like. And that's all possible, right? These are all design questions. They're not set in stone. The concrete hasn't set yet. These are all open spaces for design.

1:03:12We just have to take them. And I think that is my biggest fear in this moment. It's not even that we make the wrong step. It's that we do nothing. Because as we said, we can see all of this coming. We have all these signs of, and also really tragic scenarios that are happening with AI and advice that it's giving. So all of these things are already happening. We need to make sure we design it in a way that all the things we didn't do with social media, we need to do with these systems. And there's also, that's an open entrepreneurial space too. If you can design frameworks, metrics, systems, ways to regulate and validate that this is following the rules, these are all open, this is open season.

1:03:49Is there an area inside of AI that you see that most people aren't paying attention to that is something that is going to be vital? I would say, yeah, I think it's not super sexy, but like the regulatory markets, how do you, how do we actually regulate this thing in a way that's going to make sense and not just one tool on somebody's computer, but the whole ecosystem of what does AI regulatory markets look like the way we have accountants and the way we have KPMG, like what is all of that infrastructure? That's interesting to me. Yeah, the kind of boring stuff in the AI stack. What's also interesting are what are the complements to AI that become more constrained as AI becomes more popular?

1:04:38So that's physical infrastructure. We have to figure out how to clean and preserve our water. We have to figure out land situations, clean energy. So all of those things that complement AI are going to appreciate in value. and they're more boring businesses. We'll probably see people wanting to do more offline experiences to things that feel disconnected. So there's a lot of things that appreciate and value the more we use AI. And then also just all the things that are going to go on top of AI, the way we have all these companies on top of the internet. So what do you see in 20 years? Like in your opinion, how does the world look?

1:05:1720 years is a really long time. Or 10 years. okay so it's 2036 um robotics are definitely present not in everybody's house the way a fridge may be at least in certain parts of the world but maybe in a quarter of homes it's pretty obvious that one in four of your friends has a few robots that do things in their home for them and work in their businesses so right now you'd see a robot in just like an amazon warehouse but soon you'll they'll be in your workflow like a physical thing um most people will be yet just directing directing ai systems directing teams of ai agents will be the dominant way we are working in 2036 for sure um we will see the end of some massive companies that we can't imagine life without right now, we will see the rise of entirely new companies that are nowhere in sight right now.

1:06:22There's five kids in a basement somewhere or somebody in some biolab. We'll hear a lot more about biology as a technology. What else will be happening in 10 years? Space is, that's a whole other thing, but we will have businesses in space. So from manufacturing to entire hotels for people that work in space, all of these things are going to be alive and well in space. I'm trying to think what else we'll see in 2036. Probably by then, hopefully some regulation. Maybe it takes something going wrong for us to get our act together. I hope that's not the case. And then breakthroughs in healthcare that we can't even imagine today.

1:07:04I think that's the industry. And that's the industry most people are excited about. Like, okay, there's this, there's the negative, but healthcare and science, that's going to be answers to questions we didn't even ask when it comes to healthcare and science. And those breakthroughs are going to keep coming and keep coming and keep coming. So I think that's something that's really, really cool. And then wearables. AI doesn't happen in a vacuum. So the smartphone, that era, we've been in it. It's going to be what your home phone was. It slowly starts to get phased out. And what's going to replace it?

1:07:41That's still up for grabs. Obviously, glasses seem to be a strong contender. I'm not totally convinced it's glasses, but it's something. So who knows? In 10 years, though, most of us won't be doing this at all. I think Apple's coming out with the little widget. There's some talks about it. Yeah. Or some AirPods that have cameras in them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Rings that can talk. Can I do a quick rapid fire? Sure. You can answer them in less than 10 seconds if you like. I'm terrible at rapid fire. This is going to be great then. Perfect. All right. Is AI going to create more millionaires than the internet did?

1:08:18I think it already has, but yeah. I want you. All right. What's one job people think is safe that AI will actually replace?

1:08:33That people think is safe? That's a great question. I'm going to have to come back to that. I'll have it, my subcontinent. Don't worry, you got to make a whole post about it.

1:08:50What's the biggest lie people believe about artificial intelligence? The biggest lie people believe is that it's alive. If I had to pick one for people who believe it's alive, at least the systems we have today are not. I think this one is going to be a yes and a yes. Will AI make the rich richer or create more opportunities for everyone? yes it's probably going to be a yes to both of those it's going to be a definite yes to making rich people richer um and it is creating more opportunities but we can we can do better at making sure that's spread out more but it it the systems are going to be re-leveled and that means opportunities if people can seize them i think you did great was that it well okay okay so i didn't do as bad usually i'm terrible there was only one that i'm like okay i'll call you next week with it so for you where where are you headed like you you obviously have become an authority in artificial intelligence you're speaking you have shows but where where where do you see yourself going um in in this space i mean i try to balance so i do i guess work across three layers public work public education i do work with the private sector and companies and institutions and trying to strengthen them.

1:10:10So continuing to work across those three layers. I mean, I track the very frontier of all emerging tech. So biology is coming, quantum's coming, space. So hopefully you'll see me still talking about those things. Like everyone, my career will also have to evolve. But hopefully continuing to educate people that are willing to listen on where this stuff is headed, how they can get in the game. And yeah, I mean, continuing to build, continuing to be as public wherever we go in terms of shows and entertainment. I hope to continue to be present on whatever that infrastructure looks like and creating content there and yeah, continuing to advise and hopefully try to get this build out on the right side of history if I can.

1:11:02Like I'm going to continue to do what I can, but yeah, that's where I see myself. This is my last Robert. I'll save this one. This is probably my favorite. Okay. Will life expectancy increase because of AI and why? Life expectancy should definitely increase because of AI. Even just AI in a system like a wearable ring that's flagging something like heart disease, which is, I think, the number one killer in at least Western countries, a system like that can monitor something like that. What it's doing for invention and understanding how cellular biology works, reminding someone to take medication or like you're low in vitamin D, all of these basic things that are comorbidities and AI is 100 % going to start to flag that.

1:11:54And it already is. AI is in the science labs in ways that we just don't even know about. And remember, every scientist of the future is going to be directing super they all have a team of of supercomputers so yeah i think life expectancy well do you think the people are gonna live forever because the reason why i asked you saw when pj um gg ping and uh vladimir was talking so and i think vladimir putin said or gg ping said you know live until 150 that's the new that's the new benchmark and then vladimir Poon was saying that his scientists have already informed him that mortality is a real thing.

1:12:35Immortality is a real thing as far as like in the future. Like, it was a hot mic moment. But, I mean, these are people that obviously are informed. So it's not just random conspiracy theorists saying this. What's your thoughts on that? I think, I mean, longevity is a field and it is definitely growing and there's a lot of resources filing into it. And the breakthroughs are pretty stunning. I mean, being able to reverse cells into their stem cell state, Yamanaka factors, like all of the Nobel Prizes have been won. So, yes, I think we are definitely going to expand the human lifespan or elongate the human lifespan.

1:13:19150 i don't think that is out of the cards at all uh in the next at least the next couple decades i am of course not a biologist or a scientist but what i can see in the data shows that that is definitely not an impossibility at all um the idea of immortality that's a whole different thing i think it's it is probably something that you can never say never though But I don't think it's, we will see that within our lifespan, but we will see decades. I mean, one scientist, Dr. David Sinclair, believes the first person to live to 150 has already been born. And he's a Harvard scientist, but that's from him and his lab.

1:14:00So there's variation. Some people say, oh, we all get to 120 on an average, but we still have some ways to go. And every time we tamper with biology, something new comes up. so you can extend one thing but we don't fully understand evolution why we're here how we've been programmed but we're getting there and that's why i've brought up biology a few times on this podcast we can now program organisms the way we program computers so we can talk to the cell the way we write code and so that is going to allow us to program out disease and just kind of the general traumas of life that can take us out early to start to reprogram our expiration date, but within reason and within limits.

1:14:46Biology has made the system make sense. And when you keep, when you push on one wall, something else breaks. It'll be a butterfly for life. Yeah. But I do think we're going to be extending lifespans by decades soon, eventually. All right. So which disease do you think AI cures first? so and it will be ai in combination with biotechnologies but i think so anything that needs to be edited so any gene that can safely be and be edited and engineered that is going to trigger disease whether that's down the road from environmental factors or it's like something like sickle cell those are all going to be eradicated it's open season there um diseases like diabetes on the one hand some labs are working on how can we actually just reprogram the cells or grow alternative cells outside and and inject so that's happening so I'd say diabetes is something that will probably be up for question if we did this again in a decade I would be really curious to see where that stands that's probably something that we're going to see a lot of breakthroughs in.

1:15:54I mean, you have most AI labs that are centered in health working on cancer and many, many different cancers because cancer is an individual disease, right? How it manifests in one person's body is different than somebody else's body. But we have these kind of generic approaches to treating it because a personalized approach to medicine just isn't feasible economically, scientifically. And now you have a system that it excels at analyzing data at that level, your specific data that's unique to you. So I think the breakthroughs that we're going to see in cancer, and we already are starting to see it.

1:16:31I mean, with breast cancer, AI can flag and detect the earliest signs that something's gone wrong well before it shows up in the average radiology scan. So it will start with detection, but then eventually it's going to be designing a customized vaccine just for you that targets just your cancer. And some of that already exists today. So some of these cancers are already targeted with customized vaccines. And AI is going to come in and detect that earlier, way earlier. So just the first sign that something's gone wrong, AI can flag it. And it's also doing things like, I mean, there was a study that showed they applied AI systems on sleep data and that how you sleep and breathe and all the things that happen when you're sleeping can be signals for certain types of diseases.

1:17:16And so when they applied AI systems to that data and they trained it on it, they're like, okay, this person's at risk of Parkinson's or likely to develop it. So all of these different new ways that scientists are throwing AI at different data sets that we already have, and it's coming up with different breakthroughs. And then I'd say the final one, I mean, the protein fold problem that AI solved, this was Google's DeepMind. And it was the most challenging problem in biology because we are made up of proteins. That's all we are. That's a big fundamental building block in life. And if you can predict how a protein is going to fold, that strange 3D structure, you can predict its function and where it might be going wrong.

1:17:52And AI predicted every protein in the known universe. It usually takes a PhD their entire career to predict how one protein is going to fold. AI predicted billions. And when you can predict, okay, this is going to go into some form of a disease. what is the perfect molecule of a solution, a pharmacological molecule that can bind to it and stop it. And AI is designing that. So it's predicting disease and designing medication and for an audience of one. And it is cheaper to do that now. So it's everything. It's all of it. Wow. Wow. There you have it. That's the final wrap. There you have it. Peace to the planet.

1:18:34Charlamagne Tha God here. And listen, we are back. The Black Effect Podcast Festival is back in Atlanta on April 25th at Pullman Yard. And the full lineup is nuts. We got the Grit Sinead's podcast, Deontay Kyle and Big Ice Cup Cat. We got Club 520 with Jeff Teague and the gang. Don't call me white, girl. Mona will be there. Keep it positive, sweetie, with Crystal Renee. We got Reality with the King with Carlos King. And yes, Drink Champs will be in the building. Plus, you know, we're going to have a lot of guests. So you need to join us. And we got the Black Effect Marketplace to pitch your podcast and everything you expect from the Black Effect Podcast Festival.

1:19:11Tickets are on sale right now. Go get yours at blackeffect.com slash podcast festival. Don't play yourself, okay? Pull up.

1:19:22What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, You're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, a.k.a. neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:20:02Then she says, have you seen a photo of my son? And I'm like, who is this person? Welcome to the Boys and Girls podcast. Arranged marriage is basically a reality show and you're auditioning for your soulmate. And who's judging? Only your entire family. I sacrificed myself to this ancient tradition, hoping to find love the right way. And instead, I found chaos, comedy and a lot of cringe. Listen to Boys and Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When segregation was a law, one mysterious black club owner, Charlie Fitzgerald, had his own rules. Segregation in the day, integration at night.

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