EYL Case Study: Famous Amos Lost His Company And His Name In One Deal

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0:31a.k.a. neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, hello, all my people. What's up? It's Questlove. Recently, I had the opportunity to sit down with the one and only ASAP Rocky. He reflects on his journey from Harlem roots to global icon status and discovering the hip-hop origin of his name. The Ledge was on the TV. Rakim had the Buckethead Kangol join on. I'm positive. That's Rakim. That's who you named after. I just was like, damn, that f***er got swag.

1:11Listen to the Questlove show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we've got some incredible guests like Kumail Nanjiani. Let's start with your cat. How is she? She is not with us anymore. G. Okay, great, great, great way to start. Maybe you will cry. Ross Matthews. You know what kids always say to me? Are you a boy or a girl? Oh my God. All the time. That's so funny. I know. So I try to butch it up for kids so they're not confused. Yeah, but you're butching it up. It's basically like Dora's Day. No, I turn into Bea Arthur.

1:47Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts, then add supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. Learn how podcasting can help your business. Call 844-844-IHEART. A new year doesn't ask us to become someone new. It invites us back home to ourselves. I'm Mike Della Rocha, host of Sacred Lessons, a space for men to pause, reflect, and heal.

2:21This year, we're talking honestly about mental health, relationships, and the patterns we're ready to release. If you're looking for clarity, connection, and healthier ways to show up in your life, Sacred Lessons is here for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Delaroach on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. A lot of people think podcasts about work are boring, and sure, they definitely can be. But understanding a professional's routine shows us how they achieve their success little by little, day after day. It's like banking with PNC Bank.

2:58It might seem boring to save, plan, and make calculated decisions with your bank, but keeping your money boring is what helps you live a more happily fulfilled life. PNC Bank, brilliantly boring since 1865. Brilliantly boring since 1865 is a service mark of the PNC Financial Service Group, Inc. PNC Bank, National Association, member FDIC. For today's story It's a teachable moment Yeah It's actually It's a little different for us It's pretty sad Most of the story times Are like upbeat Yeah But this is a story And it's definitely A teachable moment Absolutely It's a story to learn from But it's not really The most Yeah I think most of our stories There's always like a triumph And it's like Oh wow I can't believe They came from those eyes To do this Or they used their intelligence Their network to do that and this one's a little different.

3:54Yeah, but it's still a story that needs to be told. Absolutely. Nonetheless. Because we can learn from the mistakes. Yes. So, Wallace, Wally Amos Jr. Yeah. You know, it's crazy. So, most people, if you've heard of the cookies, Famous Amos. Yeah. That's him. You probably know him for that. Yeah, you probably know him for that. Yeah. But I didn't actually know. I was doing some research, so I know he did that. But what I didn't know was that in 1962, he became the first black talent agent with William Morris Agency. Yep. And he had Diana Ross and the Supremes, Marvin Gaye, Sam Cooke. Yeah. And he had Simon and Garfin.

4:29Yeah, yeah. Big time. Yeah, that was pretty extremely big. Think about it. Diana Ross, Marvin Gaye, and Sam Cooke. Yeah. That's crazy. Who does that? Who finds that type of talent? Yeah. But he was raised in Tallahassee, Florida. Shout out to Tallahassee. Tally Ho, is what they call it. That's from the Florida days? famu uh tallahassee community college uh florida state university yep it's a college town shout to tallahassee so he's from tallahassee he's born in 1936 that was like what he's still living still living man still living still going shout out to him you know come from a no southern background and his aunt apparently made homemade cookies on dela yeah yeah that was uh famous in the neighborhood and everybody loved it you know just a traditional type of just in the in the kitchen just making cookies making chocolate chip cookies so that never really left him even though he went to you know uh pursue a career in you know managing artists and things of that nature and eventually went to hollywood but he always had his down south roots of cooking yeah that actually was what he would give to some of his artists he would present them with cookies like so like some of the artists would come and he had like a snack before there was writers and you had to have all those things like he would bring the cookies to them yeah and he actually went to culinary school also before before he became a talent agent he went to calling school it was no joke so yeah so so like you said um he he used to gift his clients cookies and um that kind of branched off to people saying like he should probably start his own company yeah and those same clients who you know his that he brought the talent from they became people that like you listen we love what you got we love the product, we're going to help you, we're going to become investors.

6:13Investors, yeah. Yeah, man, that's important. That's a fact, because it started because, yeah, when he was doing William Morris, he tried to branch off and do his own thing with that, and that didn't really work out. Right. So, the relationships that he established, they said that they would bankroll him. So, it cost$25 ,000, which was a lot of money in 1975. That's a lot of money now, man. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? In 1975, that's like a couple hundred thousand. Yeah. And that's where he started his company with. Yeah, I think Marvin Gaye was the first guy to say, like, I'm going to help this guy.

6:41Yeah, he started his company with what you call Famous Amos. And first year in business,$300 ,000. That's crazy. I read that. I said, wait, that$375 ,000? Yeah. He's multi. Nah, he was good. So he hit it out the park right away. Yep. And by 1982, he did$12 million in revenue. Yeah, so after the first store, he started franchising. He was on Sunset Boulevard in Cali, man. Dude was doing it big. But he started franchising the stores out and generated some more income. Yeah. So he really became a big name, a household name. You know, he's in the Smithsonian Institute. Yeah, he has his hat and his shirt.

7:18I saw his commercials, man. He said, like, he got so good at selling cookies because he used to have to pitch talent to record labels. And he had the relationships. Yeah. And it was a good product, too. Famous Amos cookies was legit. They're still legit. Yeah, I'm saying. I mean, they changed the recipe, but it's still legit. So in 1982, he's$12 million. So like I said,$12 million in the early 80s, probably the equivalent of$40 million now. Like a lot. He's big time. That's a lot of money, right? So he became a household name and he starts to buy property and he's living a high life, right? So in 1985, that's when things start to kind of fall apart a little bit.

7:57Yeah, story changes. So he still did pretty decent that year, but they made$10 million instead of$12 million. So now it's a loss. first year when he's starting to like go backwards he was going up and then now he's starting to like go down a little bit right right so he makes some changes he fires um some managers um and put some other people in positions so he said admittedly like he was never he didn't really understand how to run business he's a talent agent right and he's a cook to his own credit admitted i don't know how to run a business but he didn't have any mentorship and even his people that he's around are artists and things of that nature he didn't really know what was going on so it's all good I made$12 million.

8:34I don't know how to run the business. That's astonishing. Yeah. Yeah, it was. And it's crazy, too, because remember we interviewed Ryan Leslie, and he said that scaling can be detrimental to you. If you're not properly prepared and you're growing too fast, that can actually hurt. It's actually better to have a smaller audience or to grow at a slower pace, but to be able to manage it. because when you can't manage your scale, now you're really screwed. Yeah, that's his whole blueprint too. That's Ryan Leslie's blueprint that even with the smartphone was like, yo, smaller audience, larger payout.

9:11Yeah, and that's what he said before, less is more sometimes. Yeah. So now he starts to just fall apart. He's on vacation and he finds out that he has a house in Hawaii. Shout out to all the good people. He lives there now. Aloha, mahalo. Does he still live there now? Yeah, he lives there now. Yeah. Everybody knows I used to live in Hawaii. Tell him again. It's a whole vibe out there. So he finds out that his house is actually being auctioned off. Yeah. That's crazy. That's the crazy news to just wake up to like, oh, by the way, they auction your house at 3 p.m. I'm like, what? He didn't even know his house was in foreclosure.

9:50You know what I'm saying? When did this happen? This is no laughing matter. We're making light of it, but it's no laughing matter. It's just crazy. So it's like, but once again, that just goes to show you like, especially like a lot of celebrities and, you know, like even with the Fat Joe situation, people know like he went to jail for tax evasion. When he was telling a story, it was like he had his accountant that was paying all his bills for him. And, you know, he's being a rapper and he felt like, you know, he's not really paying attention to that stuff. We saw that with Jim Jones. Yeah. What if mind control is real?

10:21If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness.

10:56Mind Games is the story of NLP. It's crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all? NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every January, we're encouraged to start over. But what if this year is about slowing down and learning how to understand ourselves more deeply? What if this year is about giving ourselves permission to feel what we've been holding and knowing that it's okay to ask for help?

11:39I'm Mike Della Rocha, host of Sacred Lessons. This is a podcast for men navigating stress, emotional health, fatherhood, identity, and the unspoken pressures we're taught to carry alone. We talk honestly about mental health, about healing generational wounds, and about learning how to show up with more presence and care. If you want a healthier relationship with yourself and the people you love, then Sacred Lessons is the podcast for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike DeLaRocha on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow Sacred Lessons with Mike DeLaRocha and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

12:21New year, new goals, and in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever. I am Matt. And I'm Joel. We are from the How to Money podcast, and every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on out there. If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up, y 'all? This is Questlove. Recently, I had the opportunity to sit down with A$AP Rocky ahead of his album release, Don't Be Dumb.

12:57He reflects on his journey from his Harlem roots to global icon status, discovering the hip-hop origin of his name. The ledge was on the TV. Rakim had the bucket hat Kangol during the past. I was like, that's Rakim. That's who you named after. I just was like, damn, that **** got swag. Rocky offers a window into not only a boundary-breaking artist, but as a man committed to fusing creative ideas, community, and remaining unapologetically himself. Have you ever gotten roasted for any of your outfits? For sure. Some people don't be getting the vision. Look, they can roast me, they can cook me, they can deep-fry me, they can saute whatever they want.

13:35because nobody knew the f*** with my fashion sense and my taste is impeccable. I'm just like, I impress myself a lot. It's an amazing conversation, one you definitely don't want to miss. So listen to the Questlove show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we've got some incredible guests like Kumail Nanjiani. Let's start with your cat. How is she? She is not with us anymore. Okay, great, great, great way to start. So this is a great beginning and hopefully you'll be able to, I don't know, maybe you will cry.

14:15Amanda Seyfried. Life is so short. If you feel something like that, you have that fire in you for this experience. It's not for a guy. It's for the experience of being in love and like it's bigger than a guy. Elizabeth Olsen. I love swimming naked so much. And I know you love taking pictures of yourself naked. I love to be naked. I just want to be in my brown underwear all the time. Ross Matthews. You know what kids always say to me? Are you a boy or a girl? Oh my God. All the time. That's so funny. I know. So I'm always like, hi. I try to butch it up for kids, you know, so they're not confused.

14:49Yeah, but you're butching it up. It's basically like Doris Day. No, I turn into Bea Arthur. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That was all the time. Okay, he lived a house in Jersey. Kevin Garnett, a bunch of them. So what happens with Fat Joe is that the accountant apparently started embezzling, stealing money, not paying his taxes, not paying his bills. He found out because he always had excellent credit. He tried to get a car, and his credit was like$4.50. And he was like, what? And then he realized that all of his bills haven't been paid for months.

15:24And also, along with bills, his accountant never paid his taxes. He had to do like six months in federal jail. So I say I have to say this is something that's unfortunate. It's been going on for a long period of time where people like put trust in other people to take care of their finances. And they don't know what's going on with their own money. Yeah. And by the time they realize it, it's too late. Yeah, we see it happen too much, man. Way too much. So, so yeah. So, so that was just like when he realized like, okay, things is really starting to go down crazy. so now he's scrambling and he brings outside investors in to like help out with his company because now he's starting to lose money to the famous company yeah so he takes I think like 3 million dollars of investors money but that didn't really work out but those alone so now he has to pay that back but then they left and the company's losing even more money yeah so now it's it's like spiraling out of control at a very rapid pace and what are you going to do when that happens Yeah.

16:24So in 1988, he sells the company to$3 million. He sells it for$3 million. He sells the company in 1988 to the Shansby Group. I think I'm pronouncing that correct. For$3 million. So the crazy thing about it is that now he sells the company for$3 million. And they keep him on as a brand ambassador. So he makes a deal with them. And he's not allowed to use his name anymore. Yeah, because part of the sell is the trademark. Yep. So famous and Amos. He can't, his name is. His name he can't use. He can't use his name. Yeah. Can't use it. So, but he can, so it's crazy. So he built the company from scratch, from nothing, right?

17:04Built it to a multimillion dollar corporation. Sells it for way less than what it was valued for just a few years earlier. He was hurting. Not only do they tell him that you can't use your name, but they give him a job to be the spokesperson. For the company. of the name that he can't use. Yeah. So he's doing that, which has to be extremely, like think about that, like think about like you start a company named Troy's Sneakers, right? You love sneakers and you build it to a multi-million dollar company. We'll take that. And then 10 years down the line, you got to sell it. And they're saying you can't use Troy, you can't use sneakers anymore, but we want to pay you a salary to go around the country promoting Troy's Sneakers.

17:47Yeah, I mean he found out about it when he tried to start a new cookie company. Well, we're going to get to that. After a while, it's like, after year eight, I can't do this. And he leaves. And he's like, he tries to start a new company. And they sue him. They're like, no, you can't use that name. Yeah, trademark infringement. That was part of the sell. So then he starts the company called Uncle No Name. Yeah, Uncle No Name Gourmet. Yeah, which is a play on that. He has no name now. It's really unfortunate. It's really, really tragic. It's a tragic tale. It's a tragic situation all the way around, man.

18:20So, yeah. So, Uncle No Name. He starts that brand. But, so, the crazy thing about it is that as he's doing the Uncle No Name, the company gets sold. This is the worst part. Again. Yeah, it's the worst part. This is the worst part of the story. So, now, because he even said he had depression for a little bit. he stopped baking at all for like three years because Uncle No Man didn't work out really. Yeah, I think they started making muffins. He went away from cookies. So he stopped baking. He cut his beard off. His whole thing with trademark was his beard and a hat. He stopped wearing a hat, cut his beard off.

18:58He didn't even want people to recognize him in the street. It's like, I don't want people... I don't want them to see me like this. It's so depressing. You know what I'm saying? But, as all of that's going on, Shansby, the company that he sold to for$3 million in 1992 they sold it for 61 million. Kellogg. Big breakfast company. They sell it for 61 million in 1992. Then it gets sold again in 1998 to Keebler. That's a Delph. Keebler Cookies is that. Yeah, so then in 1998, Keebler decides to bring him back as a brand ambassador. It done got flipped five times already. It got flipped five times. You know what they did?

19:57You know, he said when he came back, it hurt his heart. I mean, he tried the cookies, but they changed his recipe and all that. No, they changed the recipe. Disrespect, like, everything. Oh, man. But at least he was able to work a deal out where he made a deal with Keebler for Uncle Wally's muffins. Yeah. So they let him have, I guess, like a subsidiary company within the company. It didn't work out that well either. Things of that nature. Yeah. And now he gives speeches. He's still alive. Yeah, he's still alive. He's still out. I think he lives in, well, he was living in Hawaii, and now I think he's back in South Carolina.

20:36He's back south. but he's still making cookies he's still making cookies I think the original idea came from his Aunt Della and so that's what he's going back to his new company is Aunt Della's Cookies because he can't use Famous Amos so I mean moral of the story there's so many different morals of the story it's a lot man lesson points and learning points it's like where do you begin but I think the first one is business everything is a business A lot of times people look at it like I'm a good chef or I'm a recording artist. How many times is it like that's not good enough? You got to be able to understand that no matter what you're doing, there's a business behind it.

21:17Just think about if he had licensed his name instead of selling it in that deal. He could have done that. His fortune would have been a lot different. You know what I'm saying? He's done now. He can't even use his own name. No, he can't. and it's like mismanagement is a lot of people say a lot of times like ignorant is bliss it's really not it's extremely dangerous especially when it comes to business and like we did an episode on trademarks and licensing and shout out to Sabine and the legal side of it is extremely important as well right like the people don't understand that like you gotta understand the legal side or have a lawyer at least to help you and it's important to people get taken advantage of I mean if he sold it for 3 million right like what did he get the proper valuation do you even know what a valuation was at that point oh he probably just needed the money i just needed some money i'm gonna sell it like you saw at three million then ten years later it gets sold for 61 million and you can't even use your name nah man it's crazy yeah it's it's like i said man it's a tragic sad learning experience but nonetheless it's still a learning experience i think entrepreneurs business people inspiring entrepreneurs, aspiring business people can learn from.

22:32You gotta learn from other people's mistakes. Yeah, I mean, and he still has his health at the end of the day. He's still alive and breathing the total lesson. So, I mean, at the end of the day, somebody gonna learn from his mistakes. Yeah, I mean, that's the worst thing in the world for somebody to take your name. You can't use it. Like, that's like... Yeah. I mean, like you said, it broke his heart. He tasted the cookies. He's like, yo, they changed the recipe. Nothing's the same, but his name lives on. Like, we talked about the vending machine episode. Like, those are still in vending machines right now.

22:57Like, today, somebody's eating famous famous cookies.

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24:37It's not just about payments. It's about giving you time back so you can focus on what matters most. Ready to see how Square can transform your business? Visit square.com backslash go backslash E-Y-L to learn more. That's square.com backslash go backslash E-Y-L. Don't wait. Don't hesitate. Let Square handle the back end so you can keep pushing your vision forward. Hello, hello, all my people. What's up? It's Questlove. Recently, I had the opportunity to sit down with the one and only ASAP Rocky. He reflects on his journey from Harlem roots to global icon status and discovering the hip-hop origin of his name.

25:16The ledge was on the TV. Rakim had the bucket hat Kangol join on. on Popslake. That's Rakim. That's who you named after. I just, damn the f*** I swag. Listen to the Questlove Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

25:55Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, a.k.a. neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we've got some incredible guests like Kumail Nanjiani. Let's start with your cat. How is she? She is not with us anymore. Okay, great, great, great way to start. Maybe you will cry. Ross Matthews. You know what kids always say to me?

26:33Are you a boy or a girl? Oh my God. All the time. That's so funny. I know. So I try to butch it up for kids so they're not confused. Yeah, but you're butching it up. It's basically like Doris Day. No, I turn into Bea Arthur. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.