He Built Africa’s Tallest Statue — Now He’s Revealing the Future of the Continent 🌍

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2:38PNC Bank, National Association member, FDIC. Thank you. Tell us about your accomplishments. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah, we just thought it was really interesting just to see A, what you felt. That was amazing. and they were telling us a few other things that you did. So what made you do it in the arts actually? Was that a correct path that you always wanted to work out? Majored in engineering and architecture, both. I'm an engineer as well. But before I get to that, I think the most important thing, one of the most important things in my little life here is that when I graduated, I came back.

3:23I came back for two reasons. Reason number one was that I benefited from a scholarship and I thought I have to give back because America didn't give me the scholarship for myself. They gave it to me so that when I get the education I wanted to have, I can come back and help my people and help Africa. And this lesson is very interesting because at Rensselaer, which as you may know, is one of the biggest engineering schools in America. As a matter of fact, back in 1968, when I was there, not many black folks because it was very expensive.

4:28So if I have that opportunity of having an education, higher education in such an institution, I thought I should come back because it was not the money of my parents. It was a scholarship. I'm not trying to give a lesson to anybody. I'm just trying to say, listen, sometimes you're even much better off coming back because there are so many opportunities in Africa you cannot imagine. If I had stayed in America, I was in the same school and the same class with the architect of Bill Gates. his name was John but he passed away about five years back he was the architect of Bill Gates but he was not better off than me here so what I'm saying is that I want people who benefited from a scholarship and even if you didn't benefit from a scholarship if you are African please see what you can do of course the good news is that today with the technology you don't need to be physically back and this is why I appreciate what you people are doing with technology today you can stay there but just be interested in what is going on in Africa business is booming and with the experience you people have there, it's very interesting for you to come back, not physically, but to come back and see what you can do.

6:31And this is why, again, congratulations for what you're doing to try to bridge things. That's very important. and again days back you had to come physically to do things but today again you can stay there come from time to time but get interested in the development of Africa and if you do that success is on the way you have to grab it and you have to work very hard for it because our folks are very difficult to work with. But if you have the experience there, well, and if you have people who can open doors like our good self here, things can be very, very interesting. Last night we got to witness, obviously, the Renaissance Monument, which is extremely impressive.

7:29I think equally as impressive is the amount of people that wanted to come speak to you, and it talks about the level of relationships that you have across the continent. How has that been over the course of your career as an architect and just as a person here in Senegal and Africa? Well, of course, you see, the road is not easy. to build up a strong reputation takes a lot of work let's put it like that because you are in an environment where it's easier to go through, not to follow the rules, it's easier. I've always thought that I should be straight and clear. This is why you don't see no walls.

8:38If you do that and you do things the way you think they should be done, if you have your conscience clear, you're not playing no games, success is at the end of the road or along the road or at the end of the road. So to build up that reputation, it's easy and difficult. Again, it's easy because you just have to do everything, not to break the rules, especially in business. Most people think that well they want to take a shortcut. There is no shortcut in good business, especially in Africa. So yes, I was fortunate enough to have taken that path. Because the environment is not always in your favor.

9:58Pressure is here. People don't want to think ahead. they just think for tomorrow and this is one of the problems I have personally because I try to have a vision but if you have a vision with people who don't have vision you have a problem you see the place where we were yesterday we were so criticized they almost threw stones to me because they didn't understand. What was the criticism about? Well you see this is a very religious country. There are Muslims and in their religion they don't always accept sculptures of people portraying people. You can portray a horse or whatever but people it's very difficult some of them accepted some don't and I was I don't know if you understood the the the story that I told yesterday explaining that when we finished building the monument since the the the lady was a little denuded here they started making problems and then the president asked me can we cover that part?

11:35I just told him, I say yes but it'll cost a million dollars, million plus, a million and a half. He says a million and a half just for that cloth? I said yes. He said okay let's make it small, I say it's worse because it would be what we call betcho, you know that's what ladies wear at night. So So, again, you have to fight incomprehension when you look ahead. So how do you get the buy-in from the people to accept it? Well, no. Actually, if you know that what you're doing is right, just be patient. Time will do the rest. And that's what happens. And today, including the big religious chiefs, they all accept.

12:27not only do they accept, if this monument was not here, you come to Dakar, what do you see? Almost nothing. So if in your mind you know that this is good, go ahead and do it. Right now the biggest project I have is probably building the new capital city of Gabon called Libreville too. But along that, what I think is my... Thank you. Thank you. But what I think now is that we are doing what we call the new roads, the new steel and aluminum roads. What is it? Let's not tell you.

13:24What when we talk about the new steel and aluminum roads, what is that? Everybody knows that Europe was developed because of the steel industry. Steel and coal. now everybody also knows that most of the raw material to make steel and aluminum come from Africa now the story goes that today if you trace the road of steel they take the raw material let's say in Pepelle here in Sierra Leone it makes 20 ,000 kilometers to go to China to be transformed and another 20 ,000 kilometers to come back to Africa to be distributed if you take aluminum the raw material of aluminum is called bauxite. Bauxite comes from our neighbors from Guinea, most of it of course, Guinea Conakry, from the port of Kamsa.

14:5120 ,000 kilometers to go, another 20 to come. Makes it 80 ,000 kilometers. We want to reduce this into 1.2 kilometers. 80 ,000, 1.2. How? Because we discovered oil and gas in Senegal. And in a radius of less than 1 ,000 kilometers, we have more than 27 billion tons of iron ore. 27 billion tons of iron ore. If you would, with the energy that we discovered in Senegal, instead of just selling the energy, when you sell the energy, when you sell the gas, it amounts, it accounts for 1.5, maybe less, maybe more, dollars a cubic meter. If you would take 30 cubic meters and buy two tons of iron ore for$200, 200 plus 50 is$250.

16:18You would come up with a rod of steel worth$1 ,250. And that's the challenge. So, not only will you be doing that, but you'll reduce, because Peppel is just 800 kilometers from here. So, the 40 ,000 kilometers going back and forth is reduced to 850 kilometers. One straight path. Yes. or you go by the ocean. It's not straight. You go by the ocean. And this is why we want to create what we call the Atlantic Africa Steel and Aluminum Alliance. Because we want to put these countries together along the Atlantic because you don't want to get inland because of infrastructures that are not developed. But boats can just go from Pepelle to the port of Dakar.

17:28Can go from Kamsar to the port of Dakar. And we want to build a new port in Nikin in the south of Senegal, in Casamance, which is just 300 kilometers from where most of the aluminum ore, which is bauxite, comes from. 300 kilometers. Earners, what's up? You ever walk into a small business and everything just works? Like the checkout is fast, the receipts are digital, tipping is a breeze, and you're out the door before the line even builds. Odds are they're using Square. We love supporting businesses that run on Square because it just feels seamless, whether it's a local coffee shop, a vendor at a pop-up market, or even one of our merch partners.

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19:35instead of 20 ,000 and 20 ,000 back because we are preparing for Zleka. Zleka is the new African continental comment dire encore African free continental well you said well in English zone de liberation so we are preparing for that but if you want to prepare for that you have to think about things that you may not see yourself but that's not important that's building the future. When you're building the future, you don't think about yourself. I will not be here when it starts. You have to build it. Have you seen, like you said, you have to have vision. We've been to a few countries and it seems like the vision is starting to become clearer as younger people come into power.

20:35Have you seen a shift in how people are looking at the future of unification, at least in West Africa? Yes, of course. You see, the story goes that these new people who took power in Senegal, I sponsored them. And I had a big fight with the president. But why did I sponsor them? Because they had a vision. they had faith they wanted to to fight corruption you see we work hard to get everything you can see I don't sleep I work very hard I passed 78 I'm still working but you have these civil servants after one year they have more money than me. This is what's blocking Africa. Corruption was too high and if I sponsored these young people it's because they wanted to go just as what you said they want things to go straight.

21:50They want to develop the country instead of developing their own wealth as civil servants and they did not give the guidance that we need. So again, I think that things are changing. Sometimes, of course, people don't know how to change things. They make coups. Well, sometimes the coups are positive. If you take Jerry Rawlings to talk about his very beautiful country in Ghana, this gentleman if he didn't do the coup and took out all these generals who was just taking the wealth of the people, Ghana wouldn't be where it is today. And we hope that these people will just do the same, they will change things so that everybody can profit, can get advantage of the wealth of the country.

22:58But to do that, again, you have to have a vision. And you have to know what you're talking about. And this, our vision here, is yes, we want to make Africa great again. And if you have that in your mind, if you do everything in the books to get there, honestly, by telling the truth, but by working hard and setting the clocks right,

23:36success is at the end. When you said make Africa grow together, I'm looking at Donald Trump. He's not that negative. I think that if he succeeds this week, Even I would vote for him to have the Nobel Peace Prize. What do you think, maybe if you could share, you know, what ancient African civilization that we can look back to as young African that makes us proud of what we had and maybe what we lost in secularization? Well, you see, do you know that the richest man ever, because Americans, you know, when you talk with Americans, talk about money. or wealth. The wealthiest person ever was an African.

24:34Mansa Musa. Who? Mansa Musa. Yes. He was the richest man ever. If you compare his wealth to Elon Musk, it's nothing. and in Moscow wealth is just maybe one-third one-fifth of what he had and at that time Africa was great you've seen to book to you've seen what was written by our ancestors Shehanta job who was a very good friend big brother yes it was a very very very good friend of mine big brother big brother shake Leopold Serasinghal and all those we had great people but then again it's corruption that brought us back if you have to take a single thing it's that that's it but things are improving but again these people who made coups sometimes they don't know how to go about it they made a coup they have the power?

25:48Well, they are not well, I don't want to say educated, most of them have limits, but they wanted to do good. Now the question is, what do we do today to make them do good? and this is where the role of the diaspora is very important because you know what progress is you know what to do to go ahead which most of our people, our leaders don't so again the road is not easy but if you do it the way you should success is that yet um the renaissance um as an african seeing that coming to synagogue even though i'm just next door from from ghana that really um inspired me because when you travel the world you see a lot of monuments and you hardly see anything that is you know african is there a coalition of um african um architects that come together is it like an association where there's like a league of Pan-African architects that discuss some of these things?

27:09Or is this just like a solo trip? Because sometimes I wonder if there's like collaboration when these things are happening. Well, okay, the monument is something else. The monument, this was the idea of President Wade, who was a big intellectual, a former president, who wrote a book in which he saw this African coming out of the roots of the earth and raising to point out towards America. Because to him, and he is right, the development is towards America. So the young man is pointing America. So this was almost an individual thought. But yes, we have a continental association, which is called the African Union of Architects.

28:15We just celebrated our 40th anniversary just about two weeks ago in Kinshasa. And I happen to be one of the founders and past president of this association that puts together all the architects from Cairo to La Cap. So yes, we do think together. But of course, architecture is not something that you do. It's just personal inspiration.

28:58So we tried to do our best. I was fortunate enough to come back, back in 73, and I found Leopold Seda Senghor, who was our former president, a big thinker, a great poet, who wanted us to do a new, to think over everything that we were doing. Architecture, dance, painting, if you're in mind in the other room there you see the paintings that he promoted. You are new painters to do a new architecture. As a matter of fact the first time I went to see a head of state outside of Senegal it was through the recommendation of President Senghor. I went to see the president of Congo and And the writers later said that in Senegal we are doing a new we are doing a new dance African dance modern new paintings and new architecture.

30:25and he recommended me to work there which I did and this is how I started working outside Senegal. So the only yes because you see yes because unfortunately if you don't start by the top you lose a lot of time. You lose a lot of time. One thousand percent. You lose your time for nothing. Even here today, you know. If you want to do something, if I cannot take my telephone and call the Prime Minister or call the President, you're wasting your time. And that's very unfortunate. And this is what these people are trying to break. they are trying to correct this which is not easy because still if I don't call the Prime Minister or I don't call the president things will just keep lingering on nothing.

31:31Art is subjective so being American and watching that finger point it almost feels like it could be the reverse whereas how do we get ahead how how can we make development at a grand level? We need to work together. So the same way that you came to America to study, she came to America to study and came back, it almost feels like this is almost a call for black America to say, hey, we need you and your help to help us get to this place. Could it be interpreted that way? Yeah, absolutely. Regardless of what is bad enough in America, If you take development, wealth, that's where it is. And you fool yourself if you think that yes, that's not important.

32:21That's very important because if you see poverty, poverty is very bad. When you see people who cannot eat, who cannot sleep, who cannot cure themselves, who cannot take their children to school, then you know that wealth is something. You have to get it the right way. In America, you like them or not, of course they have a lot of things that they do bad, very bad, starting with your own president. But there are things that you people do good, very good. Sometimes you're on president. So again, don't be ashamed of the fact that knowledge is there. We are in the week of the Nobel Prizes. more than half of them come from America.

33:10So you like it or not, that's where it is. And accept it. And take profit out of this. See how that can help to develop the country. Because at the end of the day, that's where it lies. How do you develop your country? And this is why we're coming with all these theories, because without theory, you cannot go ahead of transforming our wealth. You see, I told you, if you would transform these iron ores or these bauxites into steel and aluminum, you're talking about$15 trillion. more. Fifteen trillion dollars, that's where it hurts. This is why the colonials didn't want us to know that. And that's where it hurts.

34:18Because you see, even today, I had an argument with one of the leaders of the IMF, International Monetary Fund. He came here and we had a meeting with the private sector. And this gentleman tells us, listen, don't you make no mistake. Your oil and gas discovery will not be a game changer in your economy. I said, now, wait a minute, sir. Do you know that you damn right? but you write only as they say in mathematics if and only if we listen to you. Now you listen to me and I explain to him what I just explained to you. Yes, you know that we have x amount of cubic meters of gas, you calculated it as, okay, one cubic meter will bring 1.5 dollars.

35:33But I didn't see it that way. I see that if I take 30 cubic meters, instead of just putting it in the market, I buy two tons of iron ore I create $1 ,000 out of$30 and I explained to her he said yes Mr. President you are right I say okay if you say that I'm right you go tell my folks that what we should do is take this our gas to transform the raw materials of the neighboring countries. Because the one we have to take the iron ore is about 600 kilometers from the shore. If we have to put a train of 600 kilometers, it's too expensive. But we are coastal countries. You have the port of Pepel again, the port of Kamsa.

36:38But mostly our friends from Angola they were here about two months ago and they were very proud to explain to us that well with the Americans your folks thank you they are doing the Lobito corridor and if you see that the only country that Joe Biden visited during his term, the only place he went was in Lobito. You know why? Because that corridor will drag all the raw materials from Congo and all these countries, bring it to the Lobito city and send it to America. So I told them, because they came, they explained to us, the Angolans, we're doing this Flobito corridor, and everybody clapped their hands and said, hey, listen, think about why you're clapping your hands.

37:47Americans are taking everything to send it to America, and you're clapping. Stop being stupid. it. And this is where I told them, listen, we cannot use all that material. We don't have the needs. But let's take 10 % of what is going and put in Lobito, we put an industrial hub that will transform only 10 % of that. And the Americans can help us if we ask them to do that. and then you prepare for this Zleka, this common market. Do we ask or do we impose? You ask before imposing because you cannot impose. We don't have the weapons. We don't have the means to impose. Why do you think this Donald Trump is imposing?

38:45Because he has the means. You know, he brought all these African head of state and tell them, listen, what's your name again? Come on. I just speak very good English. He didn't know that Liberia was founded by the Americans. Why? Because he has the weapons.

39:12And he has the wealth. If you have both, believe me, you impose your things. So we don't impose. we ask very

39:25no no no no no but now no not not now i think the international community knows that it's even good for the others that we get developed that's the good side of the story so again don't impose but if you explain to them that this is good for them as well, you see, if you just explain to them that this is good for them, it's just when people say that, okay, they don't want energy coming from gas, because you've developed your countries. But give us 20 years, maybe 25, why not 30 to be green? We cannot be green right now. It's too expensive for us. And they wait until we discover gas to say, okay, we don't want any gas-powered machine.