How Chef Lorna Built a Global Culinary Brand from South Africa to America

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2:37Brilliantly boring since 1865 is a service mark of the PNC Financial Service Group, Inc. PNC Bank, National Association, member FDIC. All right, guys, welcome back. special episode of Earn Your Leisure. We're back home. For sure. We haven't been home in so long. Chef Lorna. Yes. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. We're happy to have you. Yes. Originally from South Africa. Ballerina turned news broadcaster turned celebrity chef. Yes. I've lived a long life. In a short time. And I'm just starting. I'm just getting started. So, yeah. Appreciate it. Connected with us at InvestFest.

3:17Yes, I did. We appreciate you. Thank you. was amazing did you try anything i did have some yeah what did you enjoy um so it's weird because i had noodles yeah i had i'm not supposed to eat a lamb chop but i did right um i tasted it i didn't eat it right um and then there was a mixture because some there was another chef there yeah and i was like all right i'm not i'm not sure who's is who so i don't want to say the food but you're just gonna eat the food but everything was good that's that's a good thing yeah you tasted it but you didn't eat it no no i said i didn't eat the whole lamb chop i tasted it what are you vegetarian um pescatarian yeah yeah but my wife was like it's delicious i gotta try it so i did um okay well thank you for joining us thank you so yeah let's have this conversation you know as far as you're building your your chef empire yeah um but talk about the backstory as far as where it started south africa a country that we've we've heard so much about um from so many different angles and aspects um what was your experience in south africa and what made you leave to come to america um so south africa's home i'm sure you guys know what home is like that's where your heart is um but you know i let's let's wind back a little so i actually started off as a ballet dancer for the south african ballet theater um became a soloist was the first dancer of color to ever do a lead role so don q nutcracker swan lake and i guess after a couple of years i was like well this was interesting you know i kind of wanted to expand my horizons and do something else because i was like i mean i'm gonna probably do another lead role probably get uglier toes and i was like you know what i'm done i resigned and went into television and so um worked for one of the top lifestyle magazine shows in south africa so traveled around the world doing junkets interviewing people eating a lot of food which was absolutely amazing and I guess that's why I kind of like fell in love with food from there um I remember going to Italy on a on a brand trip and just like loving everything we went to like Parma where they make Parma ham uh where they make Parmesan it was just like insane and I just remember coming back going I really love food and I kind of like want to pursue it I then did MasterChef and then got into the top six and then when I left the competition dramatically crying like you know I was like this is what I want to do and this is the career we just can't like breeze over the MasterChef thing I felt like you were gonna breeze over we can't breeze over that right so I mean from tv to eating the foods what happens in between do you decide that I'm going to study culinary or did you go to school were you trained or was like some people are just naturally gifted at this are you one of those people well i am that part but i was just super hungry as a ballet dancer and i thought you know i'm just gonna eat for the rest of my life so that's why i decided no i'm kidding that wasn't the reason but um i think i i went to culinary school after master chef all of like three months oh you went there without it no yeah i went there without it wow you know and so i decided okay well this is what i want to pursue so let me like hold my skill and get better i hated chef school like i just i was like i don't want to read about how to make a souffle i want to go and make a souffle and so at the time because i'd worked in television i had quite a few friends who were um who owned restaurants and so i was like hey can i come to you and little chop a little onion do a little something and kind of hone my skills and that's where I kind of got my grounding and was a great, was still a mentor, Tori, was just really great at kind of like saying, okay, cool, you could come in and just learn as much as you can.

7:03And so from there that led into like the TV shows and then kind of like it grew from that. Yeah. So when was the transition to America? The transition to America was always in the pipeline for me. I think I always knew like this is, you know, if you want to particularly from an entertainment perspective whether it was like a cooking show or whatever it was media wise for me at the time america was like the heart like this is where you if you if you if you're going to make it big even if it was just one state it's going to be much easier to kind of you know get into the continent get into london get into the uae wherever you want to take your brand and so in 2023 i you know did the great move to new york and i kicked my butt Like, oh, gosh, it was so hard in the city.

7:51And everyone's like, you know, you're either a New Yorker or you're not. It took me two years to realize, brutally bruised, that I'm not a New Yorker and I'm okay with it, that I'm not a New Yorker. And then went back to South Africa and kind of thought about, like, what I was going to do with my life and kind of rebranding. I launched a brand of condiments that are available in South Africa and we're bringing them here to the United States. have a cookware line as well which is available on hsn so here in america as well kind of like we looked at it kind of like where you're going to go lona you know like you're going to stay in south africa you're going to try to find another home so to speak you're going to try another state and then i remember brand south africa had an event that was happening in atlanta and it was my first time coming to atlanta and when i arrived it was just like a this is it this is Yeah, it just felt like home, you know.

8:45And I guess like we were speaking earlier, just like the black excellence, the southern hospitality. You know, in New York, like if something happened to you, people are just on their phones, just keep walking. You know, in the south, people are like, hey, how are you doing? I'm good, I'm great. You know, and then have a conversation. And so I love that, you know. An Uber driver would be like, how are you doing? Are you good? I'm like, wow, people still exist. There's some kind of humanity in them, you know. And so I think for me that resonated with me because South Africa is very similar to Atlanta.

9:13Well, Johannesburg in particular. What was the lessons learned from coming to New York? Obviously, when you think fine dining, a lot of people think New York. I think you had it as your number one place. Number one. So it's a lot of competition.

9:29I mean, the home of Michelin stars and all these things. What did you learn coming here before you said, I got to go back to South Africa? I learned how to live smarter. I think New York teaches you how to hustle. But hustling on another level. It's funny because Joburgers will go, oh, if you've lived in Joburg, you can live anywhere in the world. Nope, hold that thought. If you've lived in New York, you can live anywhere in the world. I think, if anything, New York taught me to definitely live smarter. like you know yeah like hustle like a hustle lifestyle which you know i was like this it's tough you know i don't live like this in south africa i'm living like this in new york what the hell am i doing here but anyway i survived you know i'm alive here i am you live to tell the story exactly exactly so you wrote a cookbook i wrote a cookbook called celebrate with lorna won a couple of awards and international awards yeah international awards uh go my world cookbook award best lifestyle book and best something else i can't remember um but yeah that book was you know i think your first book is like a good pr exercise because you're still kind of navigating the space um i think as a chef i've also kind of like changed so like it would be you know my second cookbook would be completely different to the one that i had um but yeah it was a lot of learnings it was kind of like trying to find my identity as you know what am i trying to say about food who am i as a chef how do i fit in i didn't go the traditional route like everybody else did you know i'm just caught you know if one went left that's right wanna if one went left and i go right or whichever way um but yeah i did i did do the cookbook so what what propelled it to you know have the international awards and that that level of spotlight i think for me like i i try move away from like what is your cuisine you know what i mean like i just want to i just want to eat good i want to cook good you know it doesn't matter what the cuisine is it doesn't matter you know if it you know it doesn't have to be jamaican it doesn't have to be south obviously the roots of my food is very south african but like i mean i love japanese food you know and so like my flavor profile is always like a little mirror and ponzu you know yuzu ginger garlic you know so um i just my thing is like can you cook so what do you specialize in i don't have anything in my mind When you said who you are as a chef, I'm thinking, who are you as a chef?

11:57I think as a chef, for me, I'd like to say that I like to create food that tells a story, right? That reminds us all how connected we are through food. And so at the base of it is very South African. But it has a very much global appeal. You know, I mean, if I think about it, I always say like it's a maguini in South Africa, right? It's a beignet in France. It's a donut in America. It's puff puff in Ghana or Nigeria. It's the same thing. It's a thing that you fry. It's a dough that you fry. It's crunchy on the outside. It's soft and fluffy on the inside. The methods are completely different, but it's the same thing.

12:45We had puff puff before. yeah which is similar to a donut right in terms of like it's crunchy on the outside it's soft on the inside you open it up it's nice and fluffy you know some people like it sweet some people have it savory so it's the same thing and so i think for me who are you as a chef is just that storytelling through through food and culture just really showing how much was so similar um in what we're eating and i don't know how it all affected us in the slave trade or whatever but it clearly, you know, it's linked to somehow. You know, it's barbacoa in Mexico. It's charlotte in South Africa.

13:22It's shredded beef in America. It's the same thing. So what, okay. We, I've asked this question for different people, but I want to ask a different twist on it from a traditional food standpoint because there's different places that have traditional food. Like obviously sushi, that's the traditional food to Japan. Creole is the traditional food to New Orleans. The list goes on. What's your five places in the world that have the best traditional food? Okay, so definitely Thai. I am so into Thai food at the moment. Love the flavors. Bold, insane, incredible, amazing. I would definitely say South Africa, Cape Town.

14:00What kind of food is native to South Africa? So it's different. So Cape Town is very European. I'm not going to lie. It's like very, very European, French influences. but you have like chefs who are kind of getting finding the identity within who they are as Africans or South Africans and adding kind of like a French twist to giving it that fine dining element right but you'll get like maybe you know sampan beans are very South African but I like how you know they'll elevate that to something else and it looks different but it tastes like sampan beans which is what i like to do right um so yeah so i said two right we got thai yep thai i said south african um i definitely say japanese because i i love japanese food so that would be the third for me um i'd say the fourth would be i don't know if it's because i'm craving it today I eat Indian food all the time.

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16:22No long waits, just quick access to capital. In fact, 88 % of businesses with Square loans report growth. So go to square.com slash go slash E-Y-L to learn more about how your business can grow with Square. That's S-Q-U-A-R-E dot com slash G-O slash E-Y-L. Block, Inc. is not a bank. Banking services provided by Square Financial Services, Inc. and Sutton Bank members FDIC. Loans are subject to credit approval. um so yeah i'm not big on italian food like i'm okay you know we've been eating italian food you know um and then i would probably say sure that's a hard one between nigerian just because of the diversity of the food and the ingredients in nigeria i feel like nigeria on its own is like just a hub just because there's so many different cultures and ethnicities and it's it's just wild but i'd say that between that and ethiopian food i'd definitely say those are the ethiopian food yeah ethiopian foods oh my gosh you left you left jamaican off but i'll forgive you i'll forgive you well the funny thing is that like jamaican food is not huge in south africa it's huge in america or the caribbean you know you haven't had a lot no i've had no no i've had like jerk chicken i've had like great oxtail I've had, you know, rice and beans.

17:54No, no, no, I'm good. Beans. Peas. And peas. Oh, my God. You know what I mean. I know what you mean. So, from that perspective, you know, yeah, actually, Jamaican. See? I know what we were saying. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no. I felt the energy. Yeah, yeah, I was like, oh, you know, I've had some really good oxtail in, actually, New York. What about New Orleans, Creole? I've never been to New Orleans. Oh, yeah, I'll get you there. So, that needs to, that has to, that's on my bucket list. along with Tokyo, but let's also travel the continent. We got to travel with you. Yeah. So you said one of the things you learned being in New York was to be smarter, right?

18:32Work smarter. So I want you to talk to us about Laundra's Pantry because it's all about being budget-friendly. I know when you go out, it's tough. In New York City, it's tough to be budget-friendly, but talk to us about Laundra's Pantry. It's funny because that show stemmed from me living here for two years and then having to be savvy about my food and how I ate and what I bought and where I bought it and how I you know because I still like to eat good but like I'm not spending you know I don't go out well when I lived here I didn't go out like every night you know now that I'm here on like a little holiday I'm like where are we going what you mentioned and we try you know it's like completely different right but like when I was here it was just like how do you take basic ingredients and like elevate them because i still want to eat good but i don't want to spend too much money right um and so a lawnless pantry was literally birthed from that yes it's showcased in south africa and i guess it's on different airlines um across the continent but it was just like how do i maximize my ingredients with a very small budget and so literally that show was was a product of how much i suffered in the city i'm kidding i mean just a tad just a little suffer you know um and yeah and it did really really well and we're working on season two so super excited about that how receptive were people to it right a lot of people try to find restaurants that they like but they can't afford how do people respond to it the minute you say budget friendly people are like sign me up you know yeah because you know food is expensive good quality food is expensive but you want to be able to feed your family you want to be able to feed yourself and you wanted to make financial sense you know like not all of us can have like caviar every saturday you know or every month or every week i mean we like it but yeah so what's the business of being a celebrity chef like how okay what's the business behind it i know you can have a restaurant you can do catering you can write a book but from your your pathway that you're on right now right building a business like what what's your pathway that you that you follow so for so i i like to say i'm creative but i'm very entrepreneurial at the same time like i love them you know back then you were either just a creative or you were just an entrepreneur and i feel like for me and for most entrepreneurs or some i guess and you guys may understand that but i'm creative and i'm very entrepreneurial so um kind of building a celebrity brand for me or celebrity chef brand it's kind of owning the the ecosystem completely so it started with you know you do private events launching the supper club in November so that's one avenue and then that's obviously the cookware line that's another you know I want you to get into your kitchen and have everything lawner so whether you're chopping that's a lawner product or a cutting board that's a lawner product a little spice that you're using it's a lawner product and so for me you know I kind of look at it holistically like that and you know as you know my brand continues to grow in the u.s it's you know hopefully that all those ecosystems will kind of be filtered in you know and then obviously everybody wants a good tv show which i'm already doing in south africa i just need just let it manifest within this country so you want a tv show yeah tv shows you know yeah i mean i'm already doing like stuff with like be bobby flay and chopped and all these other things and you know cooking segments on the today show but you know you want you want to own your own stuff and i think you know even when i got back from new york one of the things was like okay how do i start owning my own stuff so lorna's pantry was through my production house and we produced it we packaged it and we sold it to to sabc you know um but i think more than anything i think that's it's just about building a sustainable brand that would live long beyond me being alive um but but yeah i think it's it's really just owning the different ecosystems when it comes to the culinary arts what i mean obviously successful in south africa the u.s obviously makes a lot of sense were there other parts of the world that you said okay hey, before I go to the US or maybe other countries in Africa, like, hey, let's spread the brand here.

22:52Or it was, hey, once we become big here and we've established some of the things we want, we're going back to you guys. Was that always a mindset? It was always just America. I think I dabbled within the UK for a little while because the pound is nice. But it's always been America. For me, maybe for somebody else, it might be something else. And I guess I've been carving at this journey slowly. And, you know, you start seeing like a few things that start happening. And you're like, okay, maybe, you know, the sacrifice is starting to pay off somewhat, you know, because it is. It's a sacrifice for me from your family.

23:30And everyone's like, so you don't have a single family member in the U.S.? I'm like, no, I don't. You know, it's literally just me, myself and I just carving this. You are the team. That part. Really? Yeah. So, I mean, even. I don't have a cousin. I don't have. Really? known that's pretty impressive i don't know it's stupid it's stupid and crazy it could be all those things can be true so how are you navigating right obviously we obviously you were part of invest fest yeah how are you finding out about these events how are you finding about openings for restaurants like you're navigating this all by yourself yeah yeah i think for me one of the things that um you know my friends always say lorna's ambition knows no boundaries like I will ask you know until you tell me to leave you alone or stop annoying like stop irritating you but I I don't I don't have the fear to ask a question you know or ask for not so much I guess help or you know I don't mind putting myself out there you know because I have nothing to lose right you could either be like no we don't want to invest first it's cool she's not really our vibe or yeah it sounds like something cool you know we could feature her and then you know you go out and you deliver your best and you do over and above what you are required to do right and then you hopefully get back and you know the check is a little bigger you know this trustworthiness because you know one of the things that i i've learned i guess from new york as opposed to south africa and south africa like there are people i can call like to get stuff done like real quick here like every email is like hi by way of introduction my name is chef you know every email but you know that's that's how you build a brand that's how you start you know and um yeah and i'm still navigating but i you know i think i'm on the right path don't talk about the supper club yeah so i'm very very excited about the supper club uh it's called ekaya dining ekaya means home um and for me that's what i want food to feel like that you're coming to my home and we're having great conversation maybe we'll do another one next year you know when you guys do invest first no pressure because now it's live you know um and i love intimate food spaces you know i i want you to pass the dish to the next person have a conversation about it i want you to go oh this reminds me of my auntie's collard greens but she's just added a little cream and you know it's a little different and so the whole concept of a kaya is bringing people around a table and wanting them to feel like they're in my home um it's a restaurant it's a supper club what is a supper club a supper club is just i guess a cooler way of saying you're running like a pop-up experience or a restaurant that feels like home like a little intimate more intimate uh more um what's the word um not every day so it's a something that you becomes uh what's the english word um like you want to go to you know like i think if you had invest every single weekend it would lose its like luster so yeah so how all right so when it opens how long is going to be open for so basically when it opens you go um the supper club is open for these dates book out these dates and then you i also think like you still have a life because you're not because restaurants are tough right um and i think for me as i'm building my brand in the city well in atlanta um it just made sense to start with the supper club build up the brand build up the name and also that kind of like oh my gosh it's coming back you know it's you had such a great time we want to go back as opposed to it's open constantly and it's just a machine which i guess some people for some people works well but for me that's not what i'm so is it limited time as far as one week or is it limited as far as it's only open on weekends so you'll say for this month let's say we're in the month of we'll just use any month the month of may the supper club is open friday saturdays for the month of may these are the dates people book it's only like limited to 20, 30 people.

27:30So it's really a small number. It's a premium price. So, you know, it's a little pricey, but it's an experience, right? And then you do another one. So, you know, May, then you go June. I'm going to do, these are the days that are open. Are you changing cities each time? Definitely changing cities. Each time. So it could be in LA. It could be in Chicago. It could be in Miami. It could be definitely coming back to New York because, you know, I feel a little stronger. Like, you know, I'm ready to take it. So let's stay on this. You got your reps in. for a while right because this is a business model chef chef calvin you heard him before no tell me about him uh he won what did he win james beard he won no like the one of these tv shows oh chopped yeah i think he was on chopped yes so we interviewed him early early early but that was his thing and this was like even during the before the right before he was doing weekend pop-ups yeah in the bronx actually that's where he started like apartments and then it was like an elevated experience in the Bronx.

28:29It was a whole thing. But okay, so this is a business model. Yeah. So you're renting out, what kind of venues is this? So the current venue we're looking at is an existing restaurant. That's vacant. No, so it operates from Wednesdays. The restaurant's not open on the weekend. Yeah, no, it's open Wednesdays to Sundays from 7 a.m. till 3. So in the evenings. So you're going to take over the existing restaurant at night? Yeah, basically. Okay. So it's like when Say Less, they go to the All-Star Games. Yeah. And it's a Say Less pop-up. Pretty much, yeah. And your overheads are lower, so you're not paying staff all the time.

29:10But, you know, you're able to. So that's a business model that you. All right. So you like that business model because it's less pressure as far as having a lease and you have to stay here no matter what. And it's a scarcity model, too. Right? where it's like you got if you don't get in these couple of days and it's over as opposed to i got all month to go to the restaurant yeah exactly and i think once you build it around like good branding marketing all that stuff it is it's i mean there's supper clubs that i i think we're talking offline that's like it's fully booked till next year january and i'm i'm trying to see like somebody cancels if i could go and and they have a michelin you know and so it just makes sense and you're able to get i think for me as a chef you're able to you know get the recognition you want whether it's a michelin or a james beard or you know and you come in off of the like they have the liquor license you use their liquor license so you don't need necessarily because you're not selling liquor you know it's almost like an event ah yeah so it's like kind of complimentary yeah exactly so this is a a permanent almost like a pop-up model that just runs continuously so how how do you choose the menu because that obviously can cut into profits right if you have different menu items it's already a premium ticket but you want to make sure that the margins are good so how are you choosing that i think the menu has to be different every time because you're you know you you're selling a different experience um i think getting a sommelier or a wine partner who comes on and it's a wine pairing um i think that's one uh but definitely the menu has to be different you know that's that's the selling point right you whether you're saying you're doing a fusion between southern southern african food and the and and food from the south you know that's a play on something i think if you said if i i would love to do one that was like south african japanese um i think that would be like an interesting fusion um and so and then also collaborate with other chefs right um do you kind of like experiences where you're both curating something really delicious and amazing and you're still gathering people.

31:19But it's set. It's a set menu of like... Changes. No, no, no. But I'm saying like you have this pop-up on Saturday, right? Right. You're doing the Japanese-Jamaican fusion. Oh, okay. Look at you. We're just speaking it into existence. I know. You're going to cook three different dishes, but those are the three different dishes. It's not like you could just go in a regular restaurant. No. We just pick random whatever you want. No, no, no, no. The six course meal is the six course meal. It's the six course meal. Until the next pop-up. Until the next pop-up where you're selling a different kind of experience.

31:51And then, yeah, if you have a wine partner, then it's like, okay, like tonight we're going to be drinking this wine. I best. I best. I best. Friend of the show. Yes. Shout out to Ingrid. Exactly. I love Ingrid. And that wine is good. That wine is good. So the price associated with this, is it just the the venue and obviously you're getting the food and then hopefully we can get sponsorships and yeah so in the past when i used to do it um in new york these were funded by brand south africa and so it'd be like brand south africa and amarula for example amarula being a liqueur that's south african um and so you know that model works because you know you all your costs are covered essentially right um and i think once you've built up the brand you've got great marketing everybody kind of wins you know um and then somebody how much do they pay to get it yeah it depends weird and in atlanta they've been 185 in new york 250 for a ticket for one ticket one ticket okay yeah 250 so that so if you two that's 500 500 date shawty stop it let's not start this what are we starting now we got a lot of flack over this already let me hear it what do you think the what do you think a reasonable amount of money is to spend on a first date on a first date on a first date you are spending what do you think i mean i'll probably like do caviar i'll probably do like the best wine i could like 800 dollars or pounds which one we're doing definitely not rants so you eating caviar on the first date yes yes yes chef london not playing with y 'all what if you go to a restaurant that does not have caviar oh if i'm picking the restaurant i'm going to make sure that that restaurant is caviar oh you pick the restaurant yeah i mean you you'd say oh what kind of cuisine do you like then i'd be like oh you know is it michelin you know is it michelin yo Chapman and I'm not playing you know so I'd be like oh you know one of my favorites are XYZ and what I love about restaurants in Atlanta there's caviar service at most of them yeah so you saw so$800 so you're saying $800 is a reasonable amount of money I mean like a really good bottle of wine is like$250 off the rip yeah we can go Koki that shout out to Nas I mean they got caviar on the nuggets does that count I know no it does count okay no national in there but it's really good where the coconut oh is it here yeah in new york city yeah i gotta try it out i'm gonna send it is it proper caviar is it like the fake stuff it's real it's real that's your thing caviar i love i love i love good food all types of food all types of are you a food snob a bit yeah i was gonna say i'm a food snob right but i appreciate hole in the walls that's good like i can go to a random indian restaurant that's a hole in the wall that is my vibe that is I will never go to the place that everybody goes to.

34:52It's not for me. But I love Hole in the Wall as much as I love a good little... Hole in the Wall may not have the caviar. No, they might not have caviar, but they're going to have... But a lot of Thai spots are like that. Like Hole in the Wall spots. Indian spots are sometimes Hole in the Wall, but they're like I went to a few Indian restaurants in New York that randomly just walked in and it was like the best food. No, I agree. I said$500 that was inflation and people they got really mad about that comment about$500 they got really mad about that I mean if you think about it like a tasting menu I was looking at some tasting menus today in New York it's like$285 you also have to take in mind that you're speaking from an experience of New York City I guess most of the people in America don't live in New York City or Miami and have never tasted caviar oh lord jesus i mean they've had like other things yeah chicken nuggets fries fried chicken things of that sort no i love them it's like in south africa it's like seven colors seven colors is like seven different elements on a plate young people call it several colors but you know i'm an 80s baby we call it seven colors and it's seven different elements on a plate and reminds me of southern food because it's like a rice protein whether it's like a stew or it's like grilled chicken and then we have spinach that we cream spinach that we love you guys have collard greens then you guys have yams we have butternut or um what's that other thing or pumpkin but it's not as sweet and syrupy you know what's good for I've never had food in Coteva.

36:41You eat with your hands. Yeah, South Africa as well. You eat with your hands. I mean, that's what's up. You know, I didn't know because I'm left-handed. Right. So I was eating with my left hand. So I got the education on that. Oh, they told you? They told me. But I, you know, I'm left-handed. So everything I do is with my left hand. But when I was on Instagram, the Instagramians told me apart in the comments. Oh, really? Yeah. What did they say? you know what your left chat I told him what's up going on that damn Instagram but funny enough sushi you can eat with your hands really yeah if you don't if you don't know how to use chopsticks so when you go to an omakase spot right which is like basically omakase you know what omakase is no so basically the chef gives you what's available right so whatever at a sushi restaurant yeah it's called an omakase it's usually called omakase but it's a whatever the chef has that's available that's the sushi you're getting or the fish and whatever it is.

37:40And they don't give you chopsticks for some of the dishes. You actually pick the sushi and eat it with your hands. I know people like that. Yeah, no, no. I'm good with the eating with the hands thing. Yeah, it's all good. Oh, okay. Like our Ethiopian food. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, yeah. How are you going to have injera with the fork and knife? Get out the restaurant. Was there a city? First, I want to know how the audience are responding to the food. And then I want to know if there's a city in particular that you were like, wow they really get it because when they first think maybe south african cuisine and then they taste the food obviously it's enlightening and it's like wow i have to get more of this yeah is there a city in particular maybe new york i feel like there's so much diversity i was gonna say new york is definitely has always had my best pop-ups because it's just the the the food scene here is so vibrant it's so energetic so diverse and so even when you come in and you maybe made up an island that doesn't exist people will come and try it you know what i mean where i think in other parts it's it's education constantly and it's it's finding the you know the the the way both cuisine meet meet each other and kind of finding that midline kind of like saying okay well you know it's collard greens in the south but you know how do I take collard greens and give it a south african twist and maybe it's cream spinach because we eat a lot of spinach but we add a lot of cream to it you know and so for me it's about finding those similarities so that it's a little familiar you know and it's not like well i'm i don't i don't know what what's going on but at the same time when you go to a supper club or a pop-up you're going for a different experience you know because if if if if it was just a normal restaurant you know exactly what you're getting it's the things you like but when you when you do a supper club where you go to a pop-up experience it's for that different experience because you want something else you don't want the regular of shmegular stuff that you have an elevated experience yeah an elevated experience it's it's a beautiful date night you know that you might spend over 500 so what is zania so oh is that oh y 'all did a lot of i mean i mean we've been known to do a thing or two with research because i mean new york obviously we're here it's diverse atlanta food scene a little different has gotten better yeah growing so what is zania how do we plan to take over this market so zania is a concept that i'm working on back in south africa it's a private members club members only no phones no no no phones but it's not a gentleman's club it's a food it's a food space you know where you could have your meetings um and so that's a concept that's you know in and it's baby steps um soon to be launched in 2026 and that's coming to atlanta as well or no no no just in south africa okay so talk about social media how has social media helped the brand and how are you using social media to create awareness?

40:32To be honest, I feel like a lot of social media is like smoke and mirrors because it's all perception, right? Maybe it's not smoke and mirrors, but it's perception. You've got to create the brand. It's like how do you – what did someone say the other day? How you show up is how people are going to receive you. And so I think as I've shown up, I guess partnering with you guys for InvestFest, with Brand South Africa, those are the things that go okay cool she she's doing some stuff you know because you know your brands are very well known established and so when you're partnering with those kinds of things I think for me it plays a part because people are watching you know they may not engage but they are watching and so I think social media is as much as as exhausting as it is it's it's a really good medium to use.

41:24Can you explain the difference between a food scene in Atlanta and New York City? Why are you trying to kill me? No pressure. No pressure. You know what? I think for me, the food scene in Atlanta is growing and it has potential to be amazing. And so, I mean, New York is a beast. Miami is a beast. London. From an educated standpoint, because when I say that New York is the top city in America for food, I'm educated on food. But a lot of people that may not be as educated as I am, they give me pushback on this. They're like, no, New York food is nasty. And I'm explaining to them as far as how many Michelin star restaurants do we have.

42:09How many diversity in the food. Yeah, can you just explain that? Are you trying to let the people in Atlanta kill me? No, we love Atlanta. We love Atlanta. We love Atlanta. No, I think the food scene in Atlanta is growing. I think there's a lot of education that's needed. You know, it's funny because when I came to Atlanta in 2024, towards the end of 2024, it was like a lot of like the Lebanese, Persian type restaurants were like, or still are like a big thing, like hummus, kebab. And it's like, there's more to cuisine than just that. It's great. Mediterranean food is amazing. It's delicious. It's healthy.

42:49but there's more to it. Well, actually, this is a better question. What city in America do you think has the best food? Okay, so I've never been to New Orleans. The places that you've been to? Absolutely, New York. So explain why New York is the number one city in America. I would say it's hard to go to New York and find a bad restaurant. Even if you would just walk down the street and turn right. It really is hard, right? And it depends on your level of also expenditure, what you want to spend. there's a lot of competition so it's very hard so if you know that a restaurant has been open for a while you know they are fighting for their lives and they probably been at it for a while and also just the diversity like you can you come to new york and find every cuisine known to man potentially you know and i think that that's what makes new york just such a great place to eat i think there's anywhere in the world actually maybe london could potentially be that too but you know everything okay guys i appreciate that message i'm glad you said it um but we can get there i think it's on the rise it is on the rise and i think atlanta in order to compete you just gotta know Yeah, you've got to know.

44:10And I think for me, what excites me about Atlanta is that whenever I've had a pop-up, it's not that it's not well received. Like people buy tickets and they want to be at it. So there's clearly a market for something different. If you look at the Michelin star restaurants in Atlanta, they are fully booked for at least like two, three weeks in advance. So you can't just walk in. So that for me says, okay, it's growing and there's still an interest. there's a group maybe it's a small group of people but there are people that are going in and paying 500 800 for dinners they clearly because how do those other restaurants survive do you feel the pressure to be a michelin star i don't feel the pressure i think i would like to be i am working towards that you know um i think you know as a a black female chef from the continent it would be like insanely epic so yeah i just feel like as i'm listening to you talk obviously we've tasted some of the food yeah i just feel like there's this trailblazing that's happening with you i wonder if you're looking at it and saying seeing it yourself saying i'm setting a path for so many women yeah for my country from here to travel down this path that's why i wonder if michelin is the goal no it is i mean for any chef right michelin james beard you know none of those things exist on the continent which is crazy to me but hey whatever we did eat at a Michelin star chef's restaurant where in Benin Benin yeah oh he probably trained she she oh she she probably trained at a Michelin spot and then came to Benin and opened a restaurant in Benin because there's no Michelin on the continent yeah she's a Michelin star chef so I don't know but she was Michelin it was a Michelin star yeah she probably worked she worked in the first one to come back yeah probably came back you know it's um french so she came from paris yes she probably worked at a michelin spot in paris and they wanted michelin while she worked there so so there's no michelin star restaurants but why do we why does why why does that validation matter um the same validation when you guys had 10 years of invest first or 20 years or 30 years no but from a prestigious it's not prestigious it's just like it's like good and faithful servant you have done the work for sure for some people means nothing right they don't care because i feel like they don't care for that but i have you know i have a lot to lose because of how much i've sacrificed and how much i've put in and so for me that is the ultimate goal because what are we doing if we're not like wanting to achieve excellence and perfectionism does not exist but if we're not striving for it what do we know for sure but i think that sometimes it can be dangerous if we set our expectations based on outsider's approval that is very true and sometimes for me i'm like you know maybe i might never get the michelin because it's a difficult thing to get right but i think i have a good chance to get it and so because i have a good chance to get it i might as well try what's the process i have no clue don't worry so then you don't need it i i think if your your work is going to speak for itself The work will speak for itself.

47:17And so for me, I'm like, if I don't get it, that's okay. It's like Bob Marley never won a Grammy. That's crazy. Neither did Christopher Wallace. But that doesn't take away from his musical legacy. Yeah, exactly. He didn't need the Academy to validate. For me, either way, from the township that I'm from, to be able to open a space and say I have a restaurant or a supper club in America, I have products in different grocery stores across the U.S. I have a coconut. That's already on its own. Like, you did something. Those things exist in South Africa now. Those things exist in South Africa now. And some of them exist in the U.S.

48:01But, you know. So before we leave, I do want to talk about South Africa. Okay, South Africa. We've heard so many stories about this. And growing up, I feel like, you know, when we saw South Africa, obviously it was apartheid, Nelson Mandela, all of this stuff. And then he gets elected, the whole story. And then, you know, even now it's just whenever people talk about South Africa, they always say, like, it's just so different from every other part of Africa. Right. For a variety of different reasons. Right. How they categorize race, how dominant it is as far as like a European influence. How it's just it's just it's always categorized as like just different from the rest of at least sub-Saharan Africa.

48:43Right. Which what can you say? to people that's never been to South Africa as far as like, what's the real deal with South Africa? South Africa is beautiful. I'm not going to say it's a hidden gem because it's not hidden. It's an incredible, vibrant country. I think one of the things that resonated with Atlanta for me was how similar to Johannesburg it is. The black excellence. Every country for me has difficulties that you can't run away from. But I think what makes South Africa beautiful is just the people. The people are absolutely incredible, kind, amazing. There's just so much to do as well at a fraction of the price, you know, because the dollar to rent, you know, 17 to 1.

49:31Good to know. Good to know. You know, you're not going to spend$500 on a meal. You know, and you could experience in one country the best of the best so when i say the best so you know you could go to i don't know you could go to cape town for example we'll just use cape town as an example and and enjoy luxury whatever and you can go to doburg and experience just you know the you know street culture and and and township culture and you can go to villagazi street where you know the only two noble prize winners lived across well down the road from each other desmond tuta and nelson mandela you know um and so for me that diversity is amazing and these places only two hours away from each other by flight you know and i don't think there's a country that you can experience the difference that is so close in one in one spot in one country you know um i think the business opportunities in south africa are insane and you know me being here does not mean there's there's no business opportunities it's like the machine is still operating itself down south it's just you know we've got to expand because you know people want to grow their brands and be bigger and etc but um yeah you you just have to go i'm yet to meet anyone that goes to south africa and hates it like genuinely and i'm not just saying that because i just talked to somebody today that said they was moving to south africa this is true and funny enough there's so many americans moving to south africa no from america he's from america yeah we haven't been to the country yet you need to go we definitely gotta go there's somebody who was the executive chef for uh south american airlines i believe south african airlines so that's me so i was wondering oh okay i see well how'd you get the position and then let's talk about how we can make this i was like that's me yeah yeah it's you what are the roles and how did you get this position i asked literally you know it's funny because i went to them probably was like four years ago and i was like hey um you know i'd love to work with you guys and they were like no we're not you know it's not the time you know we're not that's not our focus at the moment and i actually emailed them about something else i was actually emailing them about getting my product into the airline you know and they were like you know what actually we think we have we have something even better for you you know and so that's basically what happens like most of the things i've ever gotten is because i just asked a christian and i was like hey do you think we could do something with invest first in brand south africa i could have gotten a no i could have gotten a maybe it could i could have gotten and you know maybe next time but most of the things i've ever done is because i just asked what kind of perks come with that the hurts the disappoint there's no perks you gotta work hard more hard work yeah it's just it's hard work and then it's you know it's hard work and it's hard work and and i guess you you have to have thick skin because you're not always going to get a yes or somebody's not going to reply because i'm not necessarily known but there was someone who once said like you are five people away from getting to the people you want to know you know so and i'm a believer of that so it would have been ask this person who's going to ask this person you know and you will get to the answer that you want you know so just ask ask and you shall receive well thank you for your time thank you uh tell the people how to follow you on social media and everything yeah so you could follow me on instagram which is lona maseco um i'm sure it'll pop up somewhere but yeah so lona maseco and then on twitter or x is at lawns underscore maseco um um tiktok is one of my second eats um but yeah you know stay in touch follow the akaya dining experience because it's going to be you know i'm gonna put you to it i got your numbers now and when i get there i should the caviar should be ready of course okay okay okay all right guys thank you for rocking us see you next week peace what if mind control is real if you could control the behavior of anybody around Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

53:45Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?