Is the Podcast Game Falling Apart? Ownership, Equity & Surviving Predatory Deals

0:00This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

0:32I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, a.k.a. neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Joel. and Matt from HowToMoney. If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back. Prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress.

1:15That's right. Yeah, each week we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to HowToMoney on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we've got some incredible guests like Kumail Nanjiani. Let's start with your cat. How is she? She is not with us anymore. Great, great, great way to start. Maybe you will cry. Ross Matthews. You know what kids always say to me? Are you a boy or a girl?

1:48Oh my God. All the time. That's so funny. I know. So I try to butch it up for kids so they're not confused. Yeah, but you're butching it up. It's basically like Doris Day. No, I turn into Bea Arthur. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. A lot of people think podcasts about work are boring. And sure, they definitely can be. But understanding a professional's routine shows us how they achieve their success little by little, day after day. It's like banking with PNC Bank. It might seem boring to save, plan, and make calculated decisions with your bank, but keeping your money boring is what helps you live a more happily fulfilled life.

2:34PNC Bank, brilliantly boring since 1865. Brilliantly boring since 1865 is a service mark of the PNC Financial Service Group, Inc. PNC Bank, National Association, member FDIC. Let's start with it. Our podcast falling apart. So Gilbert Arenas, he announced on his podcast that Underdog Fantasy owns 50 % of his show and that they could potentially lead to downsizing, potentially maybe less episodes, maybe less staff if revenue doesn't make sense as far as Underdog standards and what they think would be appropriate as far as the spend that they're putting into the show versus the money at the Gennata show.

3:24We've also saw Mark Lamont Hill and Queen's Flip almost getting into a fight. Two of my brothers. I don't like when the family feeds, you know. We saw a few other staples in the hip-hop community, you know, throw shots at each other. We've seen a lot of stuff that's happening.

3:49Is the podcast game falling apart? I've been screaming this for three or four years, but most of the people that y 'all see who are podding, things may not be going, and this is not the Queensville, because those are my brothers, brothers in arms, yada, yada. I'm glad they talked it out. I talked to Flip the other day. But to me, it is a indicator of how well someone is or is not doing based on how quickly they are willing to get into arguments with others. Shots out to all the rappers. Shout out to every crew. I love y 'all. But I think when things are going well, there are signs, right? One sign, Nori.

4:31Y 'all know Nori. Every time I see Nori on Instagram, Monaco. Yacht. Bottle from Jay-Z. He would ta-ta. Just new watch. Nori got 73 watches in the last two years. Nori, you got to chill, man. You got to chill, man. He got too many watches. Jacob and Cole kind of sore, right? You see that. Even Joe. Joe getting to a lot less kerfuffles these days after that number got leaked. So are podcasts in trouble? Yes. I think the formation of them. I like Gil a lot. Gil's Arena actually is one of my favorite shows. But the difference that we have to stress is that every good deal and good partnership that looks good may not be good for you long term.

5:17what good is a partnership if it removes they removed his name off of Gil's arena now Gil is straight, Gil's money Gil probably made what $400 million in his lifetime in the NBA so he's fine but I do think some of these podcasts and streaming deals can be predatory even the guy from Twitch saying Kai isn't on a Mount Rushmore of streaming like how? Name me four other Kai Enspey wait he said both kai and speed are on the mount what yeah he said kai and speed are not on the mount of streaming so yeah um independence um is important could being a good business person is your own and the one thing i want to stress like people a lot of times go for bigger viewership the number that really matters is percentage of equity and non-dilutable shares.

6:16It's a lot of y 'all who are getting 2 million views. I can't scrounge up 20 ,000 for an emergency. Don't walk into the predatory deal is my advice. Continue to build, build a craft that people are going to need from you. But I think it's a travesty what is being done with that deal structure and the timing of it after the gambling. The irony even in that he get arrested for underground gambling and here come underdog taking 50 % rights. Be careful. No, 100%. And I also think just some game, you know, if you guys are interested, and I said this before, for all you content creators out there, I don't think that if your business model revolves solely around revenue that's produced from people watching your show, as far as like ad dollars.

7:12That's a mistake. Now, not to say there's nothing wrong with ad dollars, but that should be added. That should be added value. Okay. Lit, litmus test. If you're not able to run your show in a hypothetical scenario that you had zero ad dollars, then you need to work your business model. So what a lot of people do is they have a fire, they have a paywall. Joe Button obviously has done it the best as far as his Patreon is concerned, right? Where he has free content, but then he has a Patreon as well, right? And you see that with a lot of shows where there's horrible decisions where there's, you know, 85 South with Channel 85.

7:50They have the free content which is used as like a gateway to the paywall. Everybody's not going to go to the paywall, but there'll be enough paid subscribers that it balances out the free content. That's one way. That's one way. Another way is to offer products and services that also can serve as an, as another form of a paywall. Right. So I say that all the time, as far as if you look at market Mondays, that's public school and that's, that's free for anybody. But if you really want to know where to buy, right. The prices and the list and all that, well, that's red Panda. If you really want to know how to trade options, if you really want to know, get the financial planning calls and the resources that we have.

8:37Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-IHEART to get started. That's 844-844-IHEART. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

9:13Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind Games is the story of NLP. its crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits he stood trial for murder and got acquitted the biggest mind game of all nlp might actually work this is wild listen to mind games on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts hey what's up y 'all this is quest love recently i had the opportunity to sit down with A$AP Rocky ahead of his album release, Don't Be Dumb.

10:18He reflects on his journey from his Harlem roots to global icon status, discovering the hip-hop origin of his name. The ledge was on the TV. Rakim had the bucket hat can go during the podcast. I was like, that's Rakim. That's who you named after. I just was like, damn, that was a guy. Rocky offers a window into not only a boundary-breaking artist, but as a man committed to fusing creative ideas, community, and remaining unapologetically himself. Have you ever gotten roasted for any of your outfits? For sure. Some people don't be getting the vision. Look, they can roast me, they can cook me, they can deep fry me, they can saute, whatever they want.

10:57It's nobody who can f*** with my fashion sense and my taste is impeccable. I'm just like, I impress myself a lot. It's an amazing conversation. one you definitely don't want to miss. So listen to the Questlove show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A new year doesn't mean erasing who you were. It means honoring what you've survived and choosing how you want to grow. It means giving ourselves permission to feel what we've been holding and knowing that it's okay to ask for help. I'm Mike Dallarocha, host of Sacred Lessons. This podcast is a space for men to talk openly about mental health, grief, relationships, and the patterns we inherit, but don't have to repeat.

11:46Here, we slow down. We listen. We learn how vulnerability becomes strength and how healing happens in community, not in isolation. If you're ready to let go of what no longer serves you and step into the year with clarity, compassion, and purpose, Sacred Lessons is your companion on your healing journey. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike De La Rocha on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow Sacred Lessons with Mike De La Rocha and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today. That's EYL University. So we offer both ways, right? Yeah. That's another one. And I think that you really have to think about it in bigger terms as far as the free platforms that we're on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, Instagram, Twitter.

12:38As long as because they're not always potentially even going to be able to be. We're not always potentially going to have this reach that we have because it is it is good to be able to reach a lot of people. The downside is that you don't get paid. but as you're reaching people, you're supposed to use that to grow your brand. So now you can do other things outside of that. Right. So just think about that if you're a content creator, but if you're just saying, okay, I'm just going to make content all day. And my revenue model is going to be selling ads. And you, it's going to be a difficult, a difficult scenario because anything could happen.

13:21and when you start to lose revenue or when they said like I said underdog they want to cut back now you have nothing you have no other option but to say okay whatever you want to do because you own half of the show and my whole thing is I don't know why you need to own the show like you can't you can be a you could be an ad partner and we can't we can't we can't have a deal you own it showing it's like obviously Gilbert Arenas, he already has money. So that's another thing. Don't be afraid to put your money up sometimes as an entrepreneur. And there's been a few people potentially that kind of fall in that situation where you would think from the outside in they already have, they came into it.

14:05See, we're anomalies. For sure. As far as the people that actually, most people in 2025 in podcast space, let's say for black men, podcast space, not streamers, podcast space, most of them are a celebrity from a time before. So Cam 'ron and Mace were celebrities from a time before when they used to rap. Gilbert Arenas and his crew was a celebrity from a time before when they used to play basketball. All of Smoke was celebrities from a time before when they used to play basketball. Noriega was a celebrity from a time before when he used to rap. Fat Joe and Jada, they were celebrities. I mean, they still rap, but, you know, celebrities from hip hop, and they carried it over.

14:53Now you got Jim Jones, Mano, Fabulous, Davies, rappers who carried it over. So Joe Button, a rapper who carried it over. There's not a lot of people at the high level, at the higher echelon that were not any level of celebrity that broke through. and it's going to become that. And now it's even harder. It's harder now than it was. Yep. It's a rare feat. They all sort of play, so now they're all coming in. All of the rappers, all of the basketball players, all of the pivot, those are ex-football players. They're all coming into the space. So now they have an advantage over you because you're starting with a thousand followers.

15:39They're starting with a million followers already. Travis Kelsey and his brother. But the differentiator and equalizer is do you have a skill set that many are not talking about that can help millions or billions of people? I would love to see someone in this era just talk about how to get hired in corporate and succeed. There's a lot of gaps that can be filled. And a very important key lesson is to not follow everyone else's business model and not to be in a sector or space that everyone else is in. When I came in and I was charging premium price, people like you're crazy. I'm like, it's crazy to not charge premium.

16:16Here we are. A lot of people have tried to adjust 2026. I got a plan for y 'all and I'm gonna show you. Um, at one time I remember when it wasn't involved to talk about investing or stocks. And now here we are. There's a proliferation of people that do that. 2026. I got a plan for y 'all stay tuned. Um, a great piece of advice in businesses to always do the opposite of what the field is doing. And I see a lot of people broadcasting, podcasting, who are copying the same model. And it's like, but the 50 % ownership pieces is smart because if they can get him to focus on the football show to sell more ads to that audience, which is more beneficial for, for underdog allegedly, but I dropped Gilbert's value talking about basketball, which that's a really great show.

17:07I can demonize you, take your audience and then sell ads against the audience that you built for your lifetime since you've been a ballplayer. He's not the only one that goes. And the most important thing to in business is to be able to say no. That's why I tell you some of them conversations of, OK, if you get one 50, can you just say, no, I don't want to do this on my show? No, no, no, I don't want to. My favorite thing in business is I don't feel like it. You want me to really do it pay me 7 million. I don't want to do it. Sorry Yeah, and the thing about it is you got to be able to Sometimes You chasing something that might not be as profitable as what you already have I said that before like as far as never discount a niche audience We might not have the largest audience in the world, but we have an educated audience that has higher income that has a higher level of priorities.

18:11I would rather have our audience than some like, you know, allow everyone to name nobody's name, but there's a lot of people that might talk about rap or something like, and they'll get a million views, but it's like these people just stay in the basement. They don't have a job. They don't work. They don't contribute to society. They're not going to be a customer to you ever. They're never going to like, so it's like never discount quality. Overquality. Yes. 100%. Two fives, I'm at the 10 and the threesome. That'd go for business. You can't even sell the audience to a CPG company if you wanted to.

18:48That's just some game for you guys if you're interested. Do what you want with it. Love the show. I hope he can work his way out of that deal. Be careful, my brother. You got a hot show. Be careful. Ernest, what's up? You ever walk into a small business and everything just works like the checkout is fast the receipts are digital tipping is a breeze and you're out the door before the line even builds odds are they're using square we love supporting businesses that run on square because it just feels seamless whether it's a local coffee shop a vendor at a pop-up market or even one of our merch partners square makes it easy for them to take payments manage inventory and run their business with confidence all from one simple system one of the things we love most is seeing neighborhood businesses level up.

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20:16It's not just about payments. It's about giving you time back so you can focus on what matters most. Ready to see how Square can transform your business? Visit square.com backslash go backslash E-Y-L to learn more. That's square.com backslash go backslash E-Y-L. Don't wait. Don't hesitate. Let Square handle the back end so you can keep pushing your vision forward. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

20:53Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Joel and Matt from HowToMoney. if your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape. We've got your back. Prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place.

21:32But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right. Each week, we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, hello, all my people. What's up? It's Questlove. Recently, I had the opportunity to sit down with the one and only ASAP Rocky. He reflects on his journey from Harlem roots to global icon status and discovering the hip-hop origin of his name.

22:07The ledge was on the TV. Rakim had the bucket hat can-go join on. My pops was like, that's Rakim. That's who you named after. I just was like, damn, that f***er got swag. Listen to the Questlove show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we've got some incredible guests like Kumail Nanjiani. Let's start with your cat. How is she? She is not with us anymore. Great, great, great way to start. Maybe you will cry. Ross Matthews. You know what kids always say to me? Are you a boy or a girl? Oh my God. All the time.

22:46That's so funny. I know. So I try to butch it up for kids so they're not confused. Yeah, but you're butching it up. It's basically like Doris Day. No, I turn into Bea Arthur. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.