JA RULE TELLS ALL:WAS NEVER SIGNED TO MURDER INC, IRS JAIL TIME, FYRE FESTIVAL, & 30 MILLION RECORDS

31:33And yes, Bone Thugs did it. But what made it mainstream for me was you. So when you hear these conversations about who originated that, what's your take on it? My take is this. I got to give it ultimate respect and credit to the architect. LL? No. LL gets his props too. Okay. But the architect in this who started it all is Curious Blow. Okay. He was the first rapper to sing a record. I was daydreaming. Daydreaming. Yeah. And he sang that whole record. That's where Nas got the, nigga's one. And that's where French Montana got that. He sings that whole record. You know what I'm saying? Was it mainstream?

32:30So here's where I come in. It was never cool in hip hop. Right. It was never, even when L did it, he did it, but it wasn't cool. You know what I'm saying? It was a big record. I think it's love. I need love. it wasn't it wasn't but but again he didn't sing on i need love l.o doesn't sing on i love he raps on us yes he does you know i'm saying but it was a love song it was the first hip-hop love song if you will i guess but i said like i said daydreaming was that it was all of that you know so when you listen to the reggae it was all of that so i gotta give that to curtis bro you know i mean then you have then you can go to bone thugs and you know other other artists who definitely harmonize.

33:13Harmonize. Yes. But for me, Bone Thugs was a flaw, a thing that we all wish we could do. Nobody can do that shit but them. Yeah. And it was beautiful and it was, you know, it sounded magical on records. But only they can do that. What Ja Rule was, was I was a fucking a crooner, man. A nigga that sings in the shower and decided I'm gonna put shit on records and every motherfucker that listens to it was like, I can do that. It's a good point because Nate Dogg is like bone thugs. He actually can sing. He can sing. Yeah, it's actually like R &B, rap. Yeah, he's not a rap. You're a rapper first that's just harmonizing and fucking around with it.

33:55Yeah. So do you think Max B comes from under that tree? Because a lot of people give him Max, because, all right, Max B has become recently in the news because he's saying he started the wave for Wiz Khalifa, for A Boogie, Lil TJ, all of that. I mean, he might, he may, he may can claim that. You know what I'm saying? He may have. But before all of that was Ru. But that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, and I made it cool because I was screaming this murder and then still singing hooks. Yeah, it wasn't just like. It wasn't, and it didn't feel like, yo, this is soft or this is, it didn't feel like that.

34:38It didn't feel like that until, I had my beef shit and then he tried to make it feel like that to the public. But then he turned around and did the same shit. And so once again, the influence of what I was doing is there. The blueprint was there. You know what I mean? Nobody was doing what I was doing as far as hip hop duets. And so when I say that there's something that I created in that harmony space is that. The hip hop duet. Yeah, because that was a hell of a run. Yeah, when you listen to I'm Real, you don't know if that's my record or Jennifer's record. You listen to Mesmerize, you don't know if that's me or Shanti's record.

35:15Same thing with Rainy Days. Between me and you. Well, between me and you is a little different. I'm thinking in terms of what's setting this trend off. But between me and you, you can go with that too, because what's setting the trend off is I'm writing all of the music. But that's my next question, because we interviewed Jermaine Dupri, and he was talking about he's a prolific writer. People don't give him enough credit for writing. I don't get it either, but it's cool. Well, let's talk about that. Because you're one of the greatest writers. You write, too. Right, yeah. You write for R &B singers.

35:44Absolutely. So, A, talk about that, and then also talk about what's the publishing for that? Let's get to that. The publishing is great. The pub is great. You know, I like to say all the time, I'm not a ghostwriter. I'm a songwriter. You know what I mean? I don't write songs and give people to the pub on the songs or give them a song and they can pay me to take the whole song and it be there. So I don't do that. I don't do that. I write songs tailor-made for the person I write them for. So like when I wrote, only record I could say that I didn't do that with was Rainy Days. Because I wrote Rainy Days for TLC.

36:30But Mary took, heard the record. I was in, what, I can't think of. Studio? No, I'm in, Jesus Christ.

36:49What the hell is this? Def Jam. I can't think of anything. I'm getting old, ladies and gentlemen. Def Jam execs? Yes. Leo Cole? No. No, not Leo. Kevin Louse? No, no, no. After.

37:03L.A. Reid. L.A. L.A., okay. Sorry, L.A. So I brought the record into L.A. Reid's office. L.A.'s listening to the record. He calls T-On. He calls T-Bars right there. T-Bars is like, oh, this shit's dope. Love the record. And we blasted this shit. In that moment, Mary walks in and she's like, what the fuck is this? Took the CD and then that was it. and then demoed it and came back with Rainy Days. And it was crazy. But that's the only record that I wrote that I didn't write for this person in mind. Well, that makes you ill too because you're one of the few rappers that writes for R &B singers. Yeah.

37:45I think Drake wrote for R &B. He wrote Alicia Keys. Yeah. Drake wrote Alicia Keys Unthinkable. But there's not a lot of rappers that can write R &B. So what's the vibe from a creative standpoint to go from a rap vibe to a R &B, a female R &B perspective at that? You got to get into the headspace a little bit. Like, a good example, when I wrote Ain't It Funny, right? So I want to clear up Ain't It Funny. Okay. Because there's so many rumors of Ain't It Funny. I'm real. I wrote completely all by myself for J-Lo. The whole thing. The whole thing. Ain't It Funny? cole wrote with ashanti okay so now here's how it came about right and ashanti did an amazing job with the record too but it wasn't a bonnie's record to write it was my record to write because i you know i wrote that record for jim because what jim was going through at the time with her and pop and we was having conversations about the talking about you know him wanting her back and a little, you know.

38:54And it came to me just like that. Ain't it funny baby that you want me when you had me love is crazy I'm glad I could smile and say ain't that funny she's like, oh, that shit is crazy! So that was it. That's how the nucleus of that started, right? We won't get to that too. That's a good story too. So that's how the nucleus that I started. Jen loved it. I'm in the studio now creating it. Fucking dead tired, man. I've been on the road moving around. You know what I mean? I've got to finish this record for Jen. She loves the hook already. Who's in the studio with my sister, who's nice with the pin.

39:43She hasn't written anything for anybody else yet. Right? But she's been writing her albums and doing a great, she's fucking done. She's nice. She get busy. Bonnie, you think you can do these two verses? I'm tired. Those of them are going to take a little nap. You think you can do these two verses and shit? Yeah, Rooski, I got it. So now, she gets to doing the verses. So now, in my mind, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go take a nap. If she comes out with the shit, we use it. If not, I gotta redo it. You know what I'm saying? She came with the shit. She came with the fucking heat. So then I finished off the record.

40:23I did the bridge. Baby, is that your word? Is that the way we can be friends? Na-na-na-na-na. I got the hook. I got the bridge. Bonnie wrote the two verses. Record is clean. So that's how that record came about. There's a lot of misconceived. But it was about Puff. It was. But Bonnie, when she tells the story about it, She says no because she don't know that part. You know what I'm saying? She doesn't know. She knows the verses that she contributed. Yes. But she doesn't actually know that those verses are being written in, you know, because once the hook is laid, now you're writing about that.

41:05You know what I'm saying? There's the theme. There's the theme. Yeah. So she's, you know, she's writing off the theme and she doesn't really even know that she's writing about Puff at the time. Yeah. That's crazy. I mean we had this conversation and I'd love to have it with artists in terms of where they're at in their careers to me one of the greatest catalogs we used to I'm telling you before we ever we sat down like yo it's gonna be tough to be John versus hold on we finish what Ain't It Funny oh do that I didn't finish what Ain't It Funny because yo because there's so much to that record right there's so much to that record so now we get to the verses of me doing the verses to the record okay it's the Craig Mack beat just like you in the blab everybody kicked the flag it must be the ass that got me like that if we get any fatter we're in the room gonna have to get at her I jacked this whole shit and his situation won't matter yes I jacked the whole shit his shit became all fatter everybody in there you got to pay for that no okay okay but here's where it got very interesting think about clarence now yeah we had we had well this is it's the cadence but you know the words are not the same when i'm there so we had that record if y 'all remember big did a remix on that record yeah and uh i think he came in on on the shit on think this is mad i get more butts than astra think this is mad to get more butt than ass trays.

42:45Don't be mad. UPS is higher. So I said, Caddy, I did the Just Like You and the Blad, but I flipped it and came in. It must be the ass. I said, nigga, you come in with See, bitches is mad you got more butt than ass trays and then go on anything you want. If he would have did that, the magic of that record now is that. What did he say? C-A-W-D-Y. You gave the formula. I get, you know, because of what I did on the front. And you got to understand something. I'm writing these records. You're architecting. I'm constructing these records. And so it's like, I knew. Just listen. Trust the process. Just trust the process.

43:32Trust the process. You know, sometimes there's artists, there's rappers, you know, you don't want to take. And he wants to say his name. You want to say whatever. It's a big record. He want to come out with his name. I get it. I get it. He could have put that on the end. Did you get a call from the other side? I mean, you doing that on the song, the other side's got to be like, yo, I think they wrote this about me. So, funny story, you know what I'm saying? We, you know, we even, with that, with Puff, me, Puff, and Jay was on going tour. And it didn't happen. Because it was funny, we all signed a napkin as the contract that night.

44:11It was in the Lamentage Hotel. Some Shiknay shit. Yeah. It was crazy. We all in there. We all arguing. We all in there arguing. About what? Because I'm the hottest nigga at the time. Right. Puff is a little cold at the time. You know what I'm saying? So he's like, I don't go fuck. I'll go on first. I'm going to show you niggas what I do. You know what I'm saying? He's like, I'll set it off. You know what I'm saying? I don't care. I ain't worried about it. So it was me and Jay going back and forth. Who's going to close. You know what I'm saying? Rightfully so, a whole shit will close. But, you know, I'm the hottest thing right at the time.

44:41So I'm like, maybe I didn't want to close, Hov. You know what I'm saying? And so we go back and forth. But Hov was going to close. You know, it was probably going to come to Hov closing. Hov was going to let me close. You know, Hov. It doesn't say what that's. But anyway, it didn't wind up happening because the arguments got so intense. We talk a lot about ownership. And one of the most important assets you can own is your digital real estate. Too many entrepreneurs rely on social media platforms they don't control. Your website should be the center of your business. Framer helps you build a professional website without all the friction.

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49:02Rules and restrictions may apply. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising.com. That's iHeartAdvertising.com. Hey, everybody. I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby.

49:37What's up, y 'all? I'm your girl, Cheryl Swoops. When you tune in to a new episode of our podcast, Levels to This, you're definitely going to get some spicy WNBA analysis. Yep. But then the conversation goes on and levels up beyond basketball. Because on Levels to This, the game is always the starting point. But we're more than just hoops. And the real conversation is what we actually bring. This is Levels to This, the podcast about all the levels of stuff that women go through. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

50:40We talk about the seasons that nearly broke them, the lows that carried them to their highs. Listen to Unshaken with Gary Vee on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. I don't give a fuck who closes. Watch what I do on that stage. You know what I'm saying? It got to that. So Puff started throwing it out there. Y 'all know what I do. You know what I'm saying? Y 'all know how I do. And I'm like, yo, y 'all ain't never seen what I could do. You know what I'm saying? I said, I ain't never been on stage with production yet. I said, nigga, once I get to flying around in the air and all that kind of stuff, one of these niggas will fuck with me on that stage.

51:20So we all talking that shit. Say that Jay, being Jay, who he is, he's just sitting there listening. We go back and forth. God, he's saying shit like, nigga, our version of your records is bigger than your records. I mean, it was getting crazy. And there's other people there. There's other people there. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think Chris Tucker was there. Like, some people, you know how Lama talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, we going back on. So, after we, you know, thought about we were going to do the tour, Jay decided he didn't want to do it with us. He didn't want to do it no more. And then he went on tour with...

52:00Talib Kweli? Yes, with the Backpack Group. He went on tour with... The Backpack Group. You know, I... I love all of them, but that's what we used to call them back then. Backpack Brothers and shit. And he went on tour with all of them. And I remember when Shaggy Pop called me, he's like, I'm going over there right now. I'm CJ right now. I ain't going to do this to us. I wanted to ask you. I wanted to go to the catalog piece because, like I said, you have one of the greatest catalogs. Thank you. A lot of people have sold their catalogs or selling pieces of their catalogs. I'm sure that conversation has approached you.

52:37How do you see it? how do you look at the whole space of, hey, this is a body work that I had. We can now monetize it off in a different way. Because you're still performing these records. Yeah, for sure. These records are still kicking off a lot of money, man. Absolutely. With me performing them and, you know, on the back end of it. But I, it's crazy. My catalog is worth a lot. I'm, you know, I'm getting, you know, great, you know, offers. I only want to taste a little bit of it, though. I want to, because I want to see what's on the other side of it. Like a piece, sell a piece of your catalog.

53:26Yeah, yeah. That's what Jermaine Dupri said. He was talking about a piece of it. Because, you know, that kind of money, you know, I could do a lot of things as far as what I'm doing with my businesses now. But you know, for me, I don't need much. That kind of money, like that shit shit, high yield. It's like that. At that time, Holla Holla is almost 30 years old. So like that 35 year revision is not hard. Yeah, I actually did a reversion deal. I'm one of the few artists that did a real reversion deal from the beginning. Oh, so you own your masters? In 35 years. Okay, okay. Yeah. So I'm about, right there?

54:09Yeah, I'm about 12 years away. Because, you know, it's ironic we're having this conversation because one of the last interviews that he did before he passed away was with us, Irv. And he talked, that's when he sold his masters. Yeah. Well, yours, masters is not included in that though if you're not part of the label, right? No. But. But you got a piece, did you get a part of that? He did take care of me for being a part owner of the label. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Honorable. Yeah. Wow, that's crazy. So, and I, and all right, let's talk about this live shows because your live show. Yeah. People don't, I don't think people fully appreciate your catalog until they actually see it.

54:44That's why the verses shout out to Joe. That's our guy. I knew you was going to win because I know the records that you have is like, that shit is impactful. It's so powerful. And I actually got to apologize to you because you did invest fest for us. You perform and we had the bright idea of interrupting your set with Jim. Shout out to Jim. looking back on it there was no need for that just rock out but you on the road a lot Dubai you get booked in Dubai a lot what's the key to maintaining that relevancy as far as traveling, doing shows on the road, overseas how do you maintain that momentum? it's crazy because it's kind of it's kind of a blessing man.

55:35you you it's it's the thing that you can't foresee like you can't like i didn't sit back and say yo i'm gonna make these kind of records and in the last 25 30 years you can't foresee that you know um i just made records that was that felt good to me you know i mean it felt good to my heart and the one thing that i did do consciously with my records that i think is helping my records last. I never dated my records. And you know what else it is? Because I call it Ja Rule Karaoke. Your records are some of the best karaoke songs. Yeah, people love to sing along. Everybody, we've experienced this before.

56:15Like when you drop the beat, everybody's saying, what would I do without my baby? That's also done consciously. Intentionally. Super intentionally. You know, a lot of artists don't understand music theory. Cadence Oasis Crescendo You know what I'm saying They don't Understand that These things Are the things That subconsciously Draw people to the music Draw people to The sound And I I knew those things early And I You know I like to use My voice as It's just another instrument Over the track So that's where The harmonies kind of Came in Because I like to You know If you if you're rapping over certain tracks and you want to stay in pocket and the pocket is melodic, then you might have to stretch a word or harmonize a word to fit it into that pocket perfectly.

57:16And so that's kind of how it came about for me. You know, I started, I'm a pocket rapper, man. If you ever listen to me rapping like, you know, like really just listening and listen to the beat and then listen to how the wording is going with the beat. Like I did when I did a great example of it when I did is it Murder Music with Ross? And I did what I call like my one syllable flow on the record but the beat is like that. The beat is like one two. It's a little real, you know what I'm saying? So the flow is that. You know what I mean? One trip, one blood, LA, New York, the game, the rule. You know, like just one syllable hits.

58:09And then when the beat starts going crazy, like, then I'm on that too. You know what I'm saying? And so when people listen to that, like they did a poll of who had the best verse and everybody would say, Ja. But like, again, people don't deem me is the best rapper. Every rapper was on that motherfucker. I'm talking to everybody in the industry was on the record. And they did a poll of who had the best verse and it was me. Everybody was saying Ja. But because it's the way I made you feel on the record. Do you care about things like that? Like, oh, he's not the best rapper? I do. You do? The New York City list.

58:45I do. I do. Fuck that. I should be way higher on the list. Facts. That's a fact. I feel like every time you're not, people are like, yo, why is he not there? You know, I take it with a grain of salt because it is what it is. I can't make people fucking, you know, understand and, you know, realize what it is. You know, people do what they do. But yeah, if you, if I'm being honest, when I look at that list, I'm like, what the fuck is all these things for me? Shit. Because I think people, especially with your, like you said, your catalog, your accomplishments, the things you've got. Especially in New York, I think it's the, they don't look at it as like, criteria.

59:21A bar, like a bar for bar. Yeah. Bar for bar. But, that's what it looks like the criteria is for me. It's only people who they deem as spitters. Right. That's it. It's the criteria of these lists. Right. And I'm like, hip hop is so many more nuances to it. Exactly. You know, why just that? But it's like, Drake is considered one of the best rappers of all time. He's a spitter too, but he's not. But then people take points from Drake. Did he write everything? You know, there's all of these. He's singing on everything. Yeah, there's all of these little you know whatever you know but i feel like you know it reminds me of that old old saying that uh uh kirk gobe said you know i laugh because i'm not like y 'all i mean everybody laughs because i'm not like y 'all but i laugh at y 'all because everybody's the same that's how i feel with hip-hop everybody can do basically one thing everybody can rap yeah can you make hit records can you write hit records can you make a record for fucking mary j blize jennifer lopez ashanti fucking reuben stutter you know what i'm saying like enrique inglesis like who who else where would you put yourself in it and then do shit for i wrote can i get her and then i wrote what's love and they're performing for 30 years.

1:00:50In New York City, where would you put yourself? See, I'm a, you know, for me, I always want to respect the legends that came before me because they don't always get their props. They don't always get their kudos for what they were and what they did for this culture. There's no us without these guys. That's just point blank, period. I feel like we talk to guys in your generation and they say the same thing. Yeah, because that's what it is. I feel like a ball player. You're never going to hear Jordan not give it up to the greats that came before him. You're never going to hear him say that. Even if he knows and feels I'm the best, you're never going to hear him.

1:01:31Who are those legends? I would imagine Big Daddy Kane, EPMD. They never get mentioned. EPMD? Fire. The niggas was crazy. The niggas got busy. Eric Seren is I mean his catalog that means some of the dopest albums in records strictly business yeah for sure and I'm saying on a business business those records got sampled over and over and over to today but you know we everybody's a prisoner of the moment you know I said it in one of my rhymes and it's it's real you know everybody does it whoever does it last did it better than whoever did it last did it better than the first in the first place. Unless you MJ.

1:02:16Pick one. Dead or alive. I'm a moonwalking space jam on Planet Nine. Because I'm talking about the only two goats that niggas don't fucking step over is Michael Jackson and Michael Jordan. That's a fact. Yeah. Gonna be tough. You know what I'm saying? But everybody else gets stepped on and stepped over. Niggas doing the DJ right now. That's a fact. Niggas doing the DJ right now. Dark night feeling. That's a fact. Live long enough to see yourself become the villain. That's a fact. So I think as a culture, we got to stop that shit, man. We got to respect. Because, you know, it's like LeBron gets a lot of disrespect in the game.

1:02:53But, yeah, we're going to miss that nigga when he gone, man. We're going to miss LeBron when he ain't playing no more, man. But do you feel that some of the times there's a nostalgia for older? It's like basketball player, right? Yeah. They were shooting free throws like this. Yeah. Let's be honest, right? Kevin Durant's going to average 100 points if he playing 50 years. The game evolved. Yeah, sometimes they'd be like, you'd be looking at these old school rappers, but then you look at their catalog, you'd be like, they got one song, bro, like got one joint. The game is evolved in hip hop. No, listen, he's right.

1:03:30The game is evolved in hip hop. He's talking like the hippie. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. We used to rap different. That's true. You know, we used to call that boom bap. And then it went to, you know, gangster. I mean, it took levels. And I don't know, maybe because we grew up on it, right? But your record still plays today. Yeah. It's going to be tough to hear Kumo D on the radio. No disrespect to Kumo D. Yeah, I know what you're saying. You see what I'm saying? Your record still plays 30 years after. In stadium. Because. And you're still touring it. I'm going to tell you, Ja Rule's an anomaly.

1:04:07Okay, and I'm going to tell you why. I'm an anomaly because of what I created that style is still very relevant today so that makes the music still feel fresh these are still doing what I was doing 20 years ago how did it feel for you when you did get ridiculed for that and then you started to see other people not just one person other people take that style or take similarities like were you looking at it like like this is like the biggest mindfuck in the world. Whoever makes it last did it better than the first in the first place. That's what I deal with. You know what I'm saying? But I'm not, I don't care about that.

1:04:47I applaud it, man. I love to see, you know, the A-Boogie's as well. Like, A-Boogie, like, these type of artists, man, I look at them like, yo, that is what Ja Rule created. You know what I'm saying? It's from a tree. And motherfuckers don't got to admit it. That's fine. You can pick any singing and rapping you like and say that was your influence. Fine. And even if they wasn't, it was influenced by somebody that was influenced by somebody. We lived through it, man. So there will be no denying it. You talked about, we talked about the music. There's other things that you got going on outside of music.

1:05:24Obviously, we saw a couple of years ago the fire situation what happened. Obviously, a lot was learned from that. But talk about some of the other business ventures that people have no idea about. I remember last time we spoke, we were talking about doing like an app and things like that. Things that people don't really understand. Like, yes, musician, but creative first. Yeah. Always creative first. And I don't want to skip over the fire thing. We go there. Because I think people don't talk about their failures enough. Right. The things. And, you know, Warren Buffett said something very, very interesting.

1:05:56He said, I won't even invest in a company if the CEO hasn't failed twice. Got to learn. You gotta learn. You gotta, you gotta, you know, see what steps not to take too in business. Or you could run down that road more than once. And for me, I learned so much during that debacle. but again you know i also learned a lot about how people pick and choose you know who who who gets defended in our culture and who doesn't you know like that that when i look at things like that that bothers me a little bit you know like if we all doing this as black men right like i root for y 'all appreciate i don't know y 'all like that but when i see y 'all i smile like i i really do man i see y 'all doing i think i'd be happy for y 'all and i'm like my black brothers doing they want to i i love to see that shit i get happy for people i don't understand the other side of it where people don't applaud others success or they root for your downfall they root for your downfall i don't get that shit like so what you know with the fire shit with me it was like all right i was cleared of all wrongdoing but people wanted me to be guilty so bad.

1:07:17I'm like, why? What I did to you niggas? What I did to y 'all to make y 'all want me to be in jail? You know what I'm saying? That's crazy. For some shit that I ain't even, you know, like, I can, alright, if I, yeah, listen, man, I've been to jail. I served my time for the crimes that I did. If I did something, fine. I go to jail for it. I do, you know, you do the time, do the crime, do the time, whatever. But I just felt like people were so happy to celebrate my fucking downfall of this. I'm like, y 'all say I want me to go to fucking jail? You want me to rot in jail or some shit that I was cleared for?

1:07:55The guy that did the crime went to jail, but people wanted it for me. And that for me was like, you know, see, that's when I looked at what we got going on as a culture and I'm like, we got to do better. You think it's the internet that fuels that type of just? No, I think it's just our culture. I think it's our culture. I think it's black culture. I think that's how... Crab in a barrel? You know, I used to say that. I used to look at that as a theory, you know what I mean? But then you realize that crabs ain't supposed to be in a barrel. So, you know, I think Jay said that famously. But that's a reality, you know what I'm saying?

1:08:35So that goes back to, you know, and I hate to talk about that because I feel like we should be 100 times beyond that. But when you think about the crab shouldn't be in the barrel, that goes back to slavery. Slavery, that's a fact. No, it's still. So what exactly happened with that? Were you just like a paid endorser of it? No, no, no, no, no. I fucking, I was a partner in the company. Okay. Came up with the idea to do beautiful festival on the island. You know, the whole shit. Had the right people in play. Called Jay. Oh, I need. who does fucking Made in America. Gave me the people to do Made in America.

1:09:18His crew to do Made in America. Hired them. Went on tour. They were fired for another group that was going to charge us$2 million less. And I'm like, so we just went through all of that for$2 million less, and we hired these bozos. So these are the things that I learned along the way. like, all right, if I'm not the CEO, he can make decisions fucking without me. You know what I'm saying? And these things. So, you know, I learned a lot during that experience. And I don't take L's. I take my lessons. I take my lumps. I take my lessons. But I don't take L's. You know, we bounce back fine from that.

1:10:06Yeah. I know you said that you're investing. Actually, you said, hell yeah, you're investing. What other ventures have you taken on after learning some of those lessons? So many things, man. You know, I got with an investment group, and we started doing so many crazy investments. That's actually how Ambranopo came about. And that's the liquor brand. Yeah, that's the liquor brand with my four partners, my three partners, actually. And it's not a white label. but we started that from scratch. What kind of liquor is it? It's whiskey. Whiskey. It's a honey whiskey. Okay. So we wanted to, you know, do something a little more new.

1:10:45A little different. Yeah, and make a flavored whiskey in the market. And so we did that. But how that came about was because, like I said, I got a crazy investment group and we're doing all these crazy investments. It's around COVID time. And we were doing, like, a lot of NFT shit, Web3 shit, crypto shit, and a whiskey dow came across my desk. And so it was to buy a warehouse full of whiskey in Iowa with Ethereum. So I had a bunch of ETH at the time. I was just like, yeah, fuck it. Now you're talking the language. So yeah, so me and my partners, we bought the fucking warehouse. And it was a flip move.

1:11:24At first, we just went away to the whiskey age, seven years and sell it as a premium bourbon and shit. And when it got to a seven-year aging process, we decided to start a company. But the crazy shit is, you know, when we started going to distilleries, you know, figuring out how we can put together this blend, excuse me, they told us don't use those because those are now premium bourbon barrels. And if we make a honey whiskey and we infuse it with the honey, it's going to destroy the aging process. So we bought two year old barrels of rye whiskey from Baltimore. and we made this amazing blend, man.

1:12:08Amber and Opal is special, man. It's on a rocket ship right now. I really feel like we got something special. You know, our biggest marketed promotion has been Lick of the Lips. Motherfuckers taste it, and they're like, you know how you give somebody some, and everybody hits you with the fake. You know what I'm saying? The reason why I know it's not the fake is because this is the reaction I get. Oh, this is really good. You're making it with fake shit. All right, all right, I got you. So, you know, that's been our biggest, you know, marketing strategy is people getting in front of people and letting actually taste the product.

1:12:50And they can buy it directly from the website? Yeah, we're in Total Wines. From the stores. Yeah, we're in Total Wines. We're only in seven markets right now. So we're scaling. Scaling. Slow. but at a good pace. Sometimes when you go too broad, you lose yourself. So we're trying to own these markets first and then branch out. You know, I wanted to ask you because we got perspective from Chris Gotti. Shout out to Chris. Yeah. When that whole Fed case happened, how it impacted him personally. You wasn't in the Fed case, but obviously you're impacted by it because of Murder, Inc. How did that impact you?

1:13:31like how did how did that because I never really heard your side of it because you wasn't on trial but obviously you know it was basically yeah yeah so how did that impact you I mean you gotta understand that was that time that was a time when I'm going to the beef shit with 50 and I can't I can't speak so that's how it affected me first I can't

1:14:02I can't go and speak and rap right now because of the things that I may rap about or say it may not you know fit well with the feds and and and you know they trying to use lyrics as evidence and this and that and the third and so I was like you know what's better for me not to say nothing I'm gonna incriminate myself by saying something that, you know, just don't say nothing. You know what I'm saying? So that was the first thing. It was like, okay, wow. I'm being attacked. Can't really say nothing bad. Which was all right, whatever. So that was that. But then how we lost the label too behind that.

1:14:40Yeah. So now it was - Def Jam shut the label down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. They shut it down because, you know, the feds was all up in their shit too. Yeah, that's what he said. Like, yo, you know what I'm saying? Like, we need to start looking up under y 'all hood too. Yeah. Wipe your hands clean of these guys so we can take care of these guys. And you know, that's how they play. And so we had to deal with that. It was tough, man. That was the tough situation. You know, the beef shit was whatever. You know, I didn't know how that was going to turn out at the time. I'm just thinking it's a rap beef.

1:15:13Whatever, you know what I'm saying? You might think about these niggas. You know what I'm saying? But yeah, nah, the hip hop industry was feeding into all of that while we going through, you know, a real, a real, a real situation, you know? Clap back in New York happened during those times. Yeah. Which is interesting because I'm like, there's still... And wonderful. And wonderful. There's still all these creative records that become hits. Obviously, there's pain that's going on. There's a lot of stuff going on. You're making the music at this age. And I'm happy to see you here. I'm happy to see you mature.

1:15:48Do you still feel that passion to still create music for yourself or write for others? Yeah, I still do. I still, you know, I got a studio in my house, so I use it from time to time. I got to get inspired now. I'm not like, you know, I'm not doing it as a profession per se anymore. I'm not doing it to really be competitive no more. I just kind of do it as therapy. You know, I go in and shit, I make diss records. I make all kinds of shit. When I die, I guess y 'all get them all, you know what I'm saying? But I go in and I clean out. I air out. I don't let nothing live on the inside. It's like when I was in jail, I had to figure out how to take my mind out of this place.

1:16:35My body's here. Gun charge? Yeah, gun charge. It's crazy. I just stayed there at FedTime because, you know, I did my stay time for the gun charge. And then as soon as I got released, the feds came and got me for failure to file taxes. so you know that was that was cute what's the story behind that was the taxes related to you being in jail or the taxes your accountant was doing some no no no no I was doing some crazy shit you know I didn't understand money at the time so I would that part yeah yeah I would do shit like yo you give me 250 for the show bet give me 50 in cash and send it over 200 to the shit.

1:17:19In my mind, that 50 is free cash. I don't know why I thought that. I just thought if you gave it to me in cash, it ain't on the books. I don't know why I thought that. So I did that to the tune of like$3 million fucking dollars. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. So when you was getting paid, you was getting paid in cash. A lot of it. I just wasn't reporting it. You wasn't reporting it. So how did they find out? They just started looking, snooping around, seeing promoters, talking to promoters? That's a good question. I think I think when the Fed case and all that shit happened, you know, he's dealing with the Fed, he's like poking around.

1:17:52What else can we get these niggas? Oh, shit. This nigga, oh, so he made all of this money, but he didn't report this money. What's going on over here? Let's, you know. He started talking to promoters. How much money did you have to pay back? Three million. Oh, you had to pay back three million. Yeah. And you did jail time. Yeah. Wow. My lawyer was really good. Shout out to Stacey Richman and Mary Richman. i don't i'm not sure but i don't think this happens very often but she ran my charges concurrent okay on a state and a fed charge that were completely unrelated yeah like one is a violent charge and one is a fucking and she i don't know how she did it but she did it and so the reason why the feds came and got me was because i owed more time okay so they came She was trying to get me a house arrest and let me do the rest of the time at home.

1:18:49Was it a sacrifice to repay? We talked to Steve Harvey, and he was saying he owed the IRS$8 million. And they put him on some crazy payment plan, like$100 ,000 a month. And if you miss one payment, you go to jail. And that's when he started to just do any type of show. He was Saturday, Sunday, Monday. He was just going crazy. He was going crazy. I think it might have been like a million a month. It was$600 ,000 a month. 600 ,000 a month. It was crazy. That's crazy. It was crazy. It's trying to lock you up. Like, obviously, you going through all of this, and then you got, like, did that put, like, a financial strain on you?

1:19:22Be like, damn, I got to really. You know, it did for a minute. You know, I had to, you know, I like to think I'm smart with my money. You know, I think I could be a lot smarter with my money. Especially if I fucking be watching the clips and shit. I'm like, I could be a lot smarter with my money. But, you know, I like to believe I'm smart money and I do smart things with money. And in that moment, I did. So you had a nice day. I was able to get through the two years. You saved for a rainy day. Yeah. You know, so that was fine. For a rainy day. You know, you live and you learn. You know what I mean?

1:19:58I made a lot of money. Spent a lot of money. You know, saved enough money. Yeah. You know, and I'm still able to earn. So that, to me, is the biggest part. like because that's the stories that chris tells us like he like yo you're like i remember going to la they in a mansion they got all these gang members and right he's like that's when i knew like okay look yeah this shit is we need to get this under control yeah i yo i said so my first endeavor in anything getting money is we i went and got a crib in in hollywood hills this is the story it was like the most ghetto mansion that you get I got this house and it was I was gonna go there and record my album my second album and then shoot Fast and Furious while we were out there in LA we were shooting it out there in LA and so it was it was a glorious time man you know and but we didn't discriminate Bloods, Crips everybody come on yeah that's what he said we are tribe everybody out there It was so wild.

1:21:03We were so wild. We'd be in the pool and guns just around the edge of the pool. He said there was a bowl in the front. Everybody put any type of weapons here and go enjoy yourself. He said he walked in. He was just like, what the fuck? Chris came in. Chris came in. We was already moving and grooving. You know what I'm saying? We was already rocking and rolling. It was crazy. It was no stopping it. By the time, you know, Chris, you know, started coming into the fray and shit, it wasn't. I got to ask you a hip hop question. Yeah. Nas, what happened from that, from your perspective? Like, what exactly happened with that?

1:21:43It was a talk he signed, you did the record, but then he never actually did sign. What was the thought process in bringing Nas to Murder, Inc.? And did you have a conversation with Nas? Yeah, Nas came to my crib. You know, we kicked it and shit. I was, you know, I think me and Gotti was a little too crazy for Nas. You know, Nas has the famous story where he's, I think Gotti told the story where he was like, yo, we're going to be martyrs. Gotti crazy. You know what I'm saying? But I was on that crazy shit. I didn't give a fuck. You know what I'm saying? I thought I was going to die young. I was you know from when I was you know just a kid in the hood selling drugs you know just what I believed you know what I'm saying I'm not gonna make it past 25 so let's run it up let's do everything and that's why I spent so much money that's why I spent a lot of money when I got money because I was like man this ain't gonna last man ain't gonna be it just ignorant me you know but um but Nas came to my crib we kicked it and I remember I'm like, yo, nigga, we're going to turn the city up, nigga.

1:22:55We're going to go get matching Ferraris. We're going to run around. We're going to act crazy. And I was like, yeah, nigga, let's go. We're going to fall out. We're going to get it. And I remember telling Nas about the deal, and that's when I think things went left. About what deal? The deal we were going to do at Sony. The new Murder, Inc. deal? Yeah. yeah he had he had just left Sony or Columbia yeah but why did it go left they were from what I heard from what I knew they were giving me and Nas a certain amount of money a piece yeah and Nas was under a different impression okay that he was getting more less oh less and I was like nah that ain't the deal and so things went left we talk a lot about ownership and one of the most important assets you can own is your digital real estate too many entrepreneurs rely on social media platforms they don't control your website should be the center of your business Framer helps you build a professional website without all the friction it's more than a website builder it's a complete website platform your entire team can collaborate in real time make changes instantly and publish updates in minutes instead of days.

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1:26:24Mainstream media is full of cruel depictions of the unhoused. Stories that shame and blame and paint the unhoused as a monolith. We The Unhoused is the podcast that's changing that. I'm Theo Henderson, creator and host, and for years I've created a space where the unhoused and their advocates can tell their own stories. In the last few months alone, I've interviewed unhoused parents, immigrants, mutual aid organizers, veterans, the LGBTQIA plus community, and the policymakers who make the laws that impact the unhoused existence. We do unhoused as a two-time Webby and Signal Award winning show with many exciting guests on the horizon.

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1:27:27You know, that ain't my business. That's no house business. You know what I'm saying? But things just didn't work out from there. Once I kind of, you know. And that's my brother. You know what I'm saying? I'm not going come on it's Queens yeah I'm not going not you know what I'm saying tell them what I know of what's going on you know what I'm saying but it ruined the whole deal nobody got paid you know what I'm saying nobody got no money out of that situation you know what I'm saying and you just did it because you like oh this but then somebody else had already told him a number so there was a difference yeah me and Earl we were solid yeah so wasn't you guys if Irv tell me something and we doing a deal he gonna keep the numbers real with me tell me what it is you know what I'm saying I heard it was the old you know the old bait and switch like how much you want get me this much I bet come back to you I got you this much my nigga but there's really so you getting jerked I ain't loving this nigga for getting jerked like that ain't what's up you know what I'm saying and I just I may have been wrong in the situation but nah I don't think so you know what I'm saying when I'm like I said I like I enjoy seeing my niggas win so fuck that you know what I'm saying so I know and you know so after that the deal fell apart this whole situation fell apart and it just didn't happen you know what I'm saying There may have been other things involved too, but I know that's kind of where it started.

1:29:09That speaks to the growth and the maturity of hip hop, right? So like it was a young man's game and we never saw people age. And now we're getting to see people make mistakes, come back from those mistakes, still get to revisit that core base that they grew with and still thrive. I told you I was excited when I saw you celebrate your daughter getting married. Fatherhood is something that we didn't get to see. Like it was, I guess Run's house would be that, and Tip did it too. Talk about that piece of having a wife at Stability and watching your kids grow, marry. Like your grandfather. Your grandfather, Drew.

1:29:45Her. My daughter just had her first child, which is a daughter. You babysit? Yeah. I thought he was gonna say, nah. Nah. I love my granddaughter, man. I love that Bella with me and shit. I can't wait to get bigger, so I could really, you know, take that. You know, I already started her little custodial account, man. She's going to be richer than all of us. I was watching. You know what I'm saying? She's going to be richer than all of us, man. But, you know, those are the things that I'm happy for, you know, that I'm able to provide for my family. You know, those are the things that are important to me.

1:30:22The hip-hop shit is cool. You know what I'm saying? I love it. I love hip-hop. This is live, eat, die, breathe hip-hop, man. You know what I mean? But there's another side to it. you know it's life it's real life to live you know and that's the important side of it like all of the other shit it's cool all of the material shit it's cool Josh said babysitting and playing golf what's the what's your workout regimen cause that's another thing too you've always maintained physical fitness a lot of rappers that doesn't happen a lot of people just in general 50 years old like you're in really good shape I work out every day what's the workout regimen I go down to my gym.

1:31:03I got my gym in the crib, too. Everything's in my house, so I'm going to leave that motherfucker. Okay. You know what I'm saying? That's how you stay out of trouble, ladies and gentlemen. Key to life. That's how you stay out of trouble with a kid. Key to life. Key to life. But, yeah, I work out. So just regulate. You don't do nothing crazy? Nah. You eat? You eat good? I eat good. Then I work out. I hit the iron still. I see my man, though. I ain't going to lie. My man A, I was locked up with. He home now and shit. I seen this nigga doing motherfucking declines, 225, 10 in the clip still. I'm like, still doing that shit?

1:31:39Damn. I need to get back in the gym. Because when I was in jail, I was a monster. I was yoked up. It's crazy. You know, but I do all that shit. I am a person that likes to show up. You ain't never going to see me do the work. You go on my Grammy, you ain't going to see me do no workout. I don't know what that shit. but I work out, I box train, I MMA train, I do all that shit. Just waiting for the day for a nigga to find out. Oh shit, I didn't know this nigga could do that shit. I didn't know he could put me in this hole and shit. This nigga knows Muay Thai. This nigga knows some shit I didn't know.

1:32:15You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you're not gonna know. You're not gonna know. You know what I'm saying? But to me, that's important. Showing up. You talk about shit all day. showing up. You know, Michael Beasley said some ill shit when I seen him on a podcast with Shannon Sharp. Yeah. And he said, he said, if tomorrow was a place that we all had to be, you know how many people wouldn't make it? That to me is fucking prolific and deep because that is facts. Tomorrow is giving. It's the day you know is going to come. so people take it for granted. If tomorrow was a place that we all had to get to and be, you know how many people wouldn't fucking make it.

1:33:07Work ethic, dedication, discipline. A lot of people don't have that. That's right. And that to me is showing up. I don't need you to see me do the work because most of the time when you see niggas on the ground, they ain't doing the work. They cheating. You know what I'm saying? When they say in movies We're going to cheat it. We're going to cheat this shot right here. That's what they're doing. They're cheating the shot. They're not really, you know. So I like to show up. And people know, people that know me, that depend on me, they know Rue going to show up. You know what I'm saying? Nobody in my circle knows, they know they can depend on me.

1:33:47They know if Rue got to show, he ain't going to be late. You know what I'm saying? He's going to be on time. He's going to rock. He's going to do his job. He's going to do what he's supposed to do. You know what I'm saying? I'm not going to let my team down. And I expect the same from my team.

1:34:02If I'm at the top of the food chain and I work this hard, you got to work just as hard. That's the fact. If not hard. And, you know, that's just the way it is. My brother's been a player. You know, Pisces like us, too. Am I February 27th? Get out of here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, March 3rd. Two days before me. You leap year. Leap year. 29th. March 3rd. I recently saw Come on man Let's go my Pisces brothers I know I like y 'all man My good Pisces brothers Yeah I appreciate it man Anything you want to tell the public Before we head out? Go get that A &O In Total Wines And you can get us online To sealbox.com And flaviar.com We was voted the number one Flavor whiskey this year Can we get a bottle?

1:34:52Yes I meant to bring man I meant to bring me a bottle with me but then I went down on my shit I only feel my son's drinking this shit too it was like a fucking half a bottle of love and I was the only bottle of love I'm not doing that I'm not bringing a fucking half a bottle to my niggas I'm not doing that so I'll make sure I'm sending y 'all I appreciate it just let me know where they want me to send it yeah we got it well keep up the great work like you've been a great ambassador to hip hop not just from a music standpoint but from a life standpoint and we work yo we got so much so yeah I do want to I want to let y 'all know man I got an amazing production company, my icon media, my icon network.

1:35:31Yeah. And we doing fucking amazing original content right now. I'm developing a show right now. This is going to be the next fucking hottest shit in the streets. I'm telling you, it's a crime drama, cop drama that fucking captures New York City in the mid-80s, early 90s. And it is fucking, it is that one. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. We're from that era. New York Undercover. We need it back. It's The Wire. It's that one. It is fucking that one, man. You producing it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fine. Are you still acting? Yeah, yeah, I'm going to be in it. I'm going to be in it. Okay. You don't get credit for that either.

1:36:18Dylan McDermott. You're a good actor. I'm decent. You know what I'm saying? You know, I'm my own worst critic. And so when I watch myself act, now I can. See, I can't do that with rap. Yeah. But with acting, I can watch and say, okay, I could have did this, but I could have, you know what I'm saying? I could have walked in the room like this. I could have. You analyze those things. and in his moments and we was like, okay, I can be better here, I can be better here. The timing of how I said that could have been all of those things. So I'm a very big critic of myself and this next project and these couple of next projects that I'm doing is going to showcase the good actor that I can be.

1:37:00I will give you credit. Favorite job of what song? Favorite job. I mean, Put It On Me is obviously. Put It On Me. That's just a classic. As you was talking, I started thinking of, love, can we get a break? Love my cadence. We ain't really happy here. Yeah, that's the army man in me. Real talk. I don't know why that's in my head. Yo, so when I was in jail, so many niggas said that chant got them through a lot of shit. But those were my army cadence chants. So if I didn't make it to hip hop, I was going to the... Sargent. Put it on me, number one? To me, my favorite song is Never Again. Never again when I walk down the road so dark.

1:37:49Hold my eyes, cross my heart. Never again. Never again. Keep calling. Keep calling. Keep calling. Can I say this before? Those are the records that people don't listen to to really hear Ja Rule. They listen to Put It On Me and I. Exactly. Ja's a bubblegum rap nigga. He makes the slingsong for the chicks. You know what I'm saying? I love Clap Back too though. Clap Back? See for me Clap Back I love that record. I love it. I love the beat. I love what it feels like. I don't love all the lyrics. I love them. I don't love all the lyrics. I felt like I could have You could have went harder? Yes. Because it was a diss record.

1:38:32And I felt like I should have fucking went. I felt like it's a mantra though. you know I was getting bottled up a lot man like you know fucking New York I was going at niggas in New York I started 50 you pussy put not even down it wasn't niggas you know what I'm saying that's how I started but you know niggas was like come on we're trying to get this played I'm like alright man the most important record and this influenced my travel holla holla the video was shot in Brazil Yes. The video was so crazy. Shout out to my man. Hype Williams. He went to study abroad. I actually followed the footsteps of that video.

1:39:13I went to Rio. Oh, man. I tried to find a club that you would. Club Help. I found it. Yeah. He said, I found it. We'll talk after. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Club Help was a motherfucker, man. And then Snoop had the beautiful joint. I'm like, oh, nah. But Holla Holla was first to go to Rio. Yeah. And then Snoop did it to steps. Those spots of family, you go to Rio, They say, hey, you know, mom's just on the beat, so I don't really. But the Creech, though, they always talk about Ja. Ja, new club, help right away. And he's the, yeah, yeah. For sure. Well, Ja, pleasure, my brother. Man, I appreciate y 'all, man.

1:39:49Yes, sir. Always, man. Keep doing what y 'all doing. Appreciate you, my guy. Love. For sure. All right, y 'all. We'll see you next week. Peace. Peace. Ernest, what's up? Look, building wealth isn't just about making money. It's about knowing where your money is working for you. That's why we partnered with Empower. empower is all about helping you invest well so you can go out and live a little their free empower personal dashboard gives you a complete view of your financial life in one place track your net worth monitor your budget analyze your investments set retirement goals and more you've worked hard for your money now make sure it's working hard for you download the empower personal dashboard or visit empower.com not an empower client paid or sponsored when traveling for a events, or festivals throughout the country.

1:40:35Every dollar matters. We compare flights, prices, hotel rates, and restaurant options. So why wouldn't we compare rides? Personally, I always check Lyft before booking a ride. Prices can change throughout the day depending on traffic, weather, and what's happening in the city. If you're headed to a concert, out to dinner, or catching up with your friends on a Friday night, taking a few seconds to check Lyft could leave you with more money to enjoy the experience. Save money. Check Lyft. On Raiders of the Lost podcast, we explore cinema like no one else, including huge interviews with stars like Ryan Gosling on Project Hail Mary.

1:41:11It was like the Jaws shark. Didn't always work, came with its own problems. That's what made it great. The cast of Obsession. On set, there was so much magic happening with each scene we were putting together. Deep dives into classics like 2001 A Space Odyssey or Fight Club, plus weekly episodes on all industry news. Listen to Raiders of the Lost podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more, follow at Raiders of the Lost podcast and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, Portlandia fans. Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armisen here. The dream of the 90s is alive in podcast form.

1:41:50We're launching Podlandia AO Rewatch, our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of Portlandia together. breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic characters, and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made. And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life, guest stars, collaborators, and friends, including director Jonathan Kreisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more. Kyle is going for it here. You fully improvised, not just words, but a song. Well, I thought you were all going to write a song. I remember you thinking that.

1:42:23Listen to Podlandia, AAO Rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.