Jermaine Dupri On Being Part Of 400M Records Sold, Changing Hip Hop Forever & Never Getting Credit

25:20We talk about Rushmore. They always talk about artists, like rappers. But there's no Atlanta sound for me. I don't even know Atlanta music if I don't hear you and Big together. I don't see Brat in his videos. And it's like, oh, and then Outkast comes. So the importance. Talk about this moment in time in Atlanta where you're introducing a sound to the world. Really?

25:45Jermaine Dupri:Yeah, like I said, I don't actually know that I'm actually introducing it to the world. I just think I'm trying to make music for Atlanta. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm just trying to get out of here. I'm just trying to do what I'm trying to do. But I'm down like this. I'm not even looking up. I'm not even thinking about it. I'm just thinking like, you know, how can I make this work? What's out of here, though? Because I'm thinking after Chris Frost, Brad becomes the first female rap artist to go platinum. Yeah. Are we not out of here? Nah. I mean well you should be but the stigma of being from the south and being from Atlanta was so strong in hip hop that it diminished the success of what you're talking about.

26:29Jermaine Dupri:Okay. Okay. Okay that makes sense. You know what I'm saying? So it's like you if I was you know I said this on The Breakfast Club one day if I lived in New York I'd be the king of music. Niggas called me the king of music. So you don't think it was no you think that it was because of Atlanta that you that it wasn't elevated the way that it's like you know you gotta think like when I created the brat I didn't create brat but once I found brat and I put brat out in order to get press to come to Atlanta to even interview her and talk to her I had to pay for niggas from New York to come to Atlanta like niggas in New York Russell and them ain't paying for press.

27:12Jermaine Dupri:I'm paying for press. I'm paying for people. You know what I mean? I'm flying people to Atlanta to do interviews in Atlanta as opposed to us getting on a plane and going to New York. You know what I'm saying? Because I'm trying to keep it in the city. But it's no outlets in Atlanta at this time. You know, in 94, we had Arnell Starr. That's like American rap makers. That's the eye guy in Atlanta. but as far as somebody that was like a publication or source or any of that none of that shit was here in Atlanta so you lose ground cause the other people that you in competition with they can just walk outside and go down the street you know what I mean so they can have a listening party and everybody show up I have a listening party I gotta do it in a time where everybody can fly to Atlanta and they got time to come to Atlanta to actually do it.

28:09Jermaine Dupri:You know what I'm saying? So that's what you're dealing with. That's what I was dealing with as a, you know what I mean? Even as a CEO, like when we talk about Jermaine Dupri, the CEO and social death, a lot of the conversations about my company is lost because of the South, because people weren't even here to actually see the amount of employees I had, the office, this, that, and you, nobody's seen this activity because it was happening in Atlanta. Is My Way the record now that I'm out of here? No. Still? Because You Make Me Wanna is, is that your first I'm born? No. Okay, no, no. No, well, Jump was my first.

28:54Jermaine Dupri:Jump, Jump, Jump. Jump was my first number one. You Make Me Wanna is the first male record from a male R &B artist that I ever wrote, though. Okay. I never did no other male artist before that song, and that song went no more. Yeah, that's a big one. Yeah. But that's what I'm saying. And by the way, this is what I'm saying. You make me want 100%. Nice and slow. 100%. So, okay. I mean, everybody that you wrote for and produced for wasn't on your label. But the people that was on your label, if you own the label and you get in the masters, and then you write the music and you get in the publishing and then you produce the music.

29:34So you're getting all the money

29:36Jermaine Dupri:You don't get all the money By the way You get a significant amount Of money You get a significant amount of money But you don't get all the money But I'm saying at the same time You know what's funny With me is that when I be hearing people talk about Contracts on this and the third The contract states what you get You know what I'm saying The contract don't state you're going to get jerked the contract states exactly what you get that's why you're supposed to give your contract to somebody and let them look over it and then you give that contract back to the person that you're talking to and it's supposed to say what you want from that person what's your thoughts on that because i always feel like for the most part there's no such thing as a bad deal because people sign a deal in that moment you needed a hundred thousand dollars it saved your life but when you sell a million records just like damn i got jerked i sold my masters for a hundred thousand well if you had leverage you wouldn't have done that well first of all people that i think the conversation about selling a master there's never a master conversation initially right um if you was coming up in the 90s and you was just getting signed to a record company it wasn't no no conversation about math wasn't that was even thought that's not no conversation because masters ultimately you you you're not thinking about that you're thinking about publishing you think about production you're thinking about trying to get your records heard on the radio right um the mastering thing came into one into play like with master p no limit cash money and these guys even like jay-z jay-z them signed to def jam um after they still was you know They was running around New York and nobody was signing them, but they still did a deal with Def Jam.

31:28Jermaine Dupri:You know what I mean? They own their masters, but they still was trying to get into these labels. It was like everybody still was trying to get into these majors. Master P. Lim was the only people that was like... Independent. I mean, and J. Prince. They was the only people that was like, we don't want to be inside these record companies. But I feel like they got that. They felt like that because of how I felt. You know, you don't have no support in your little hometown. right if you in these little bitty ass towns i mean where atlanta felt like one of these little towns you don't have nobody supporting it it's nothing that you know every time i did something or every time i do something i gotta call somebody and tell them that this is gonna happen like you know maybe i should come down to atlanta and catch me i'm going down the street in my ferrari doing a hundred you know yep you might want to see this like money that's money you know what i'm couldn't like, it wasn't nobody like telling people.

32:23Jermaine Dupri:So who's your mentor then? If you didn't have any blueprint to follow at such a young age you running a company how did you know what to do? You don't. You just... So you didn't have no mentors at all? Nah. I mean, you know, I got people that I I mean, Russell Simmons Andre Arell, Rest in Peace these people, you know what I mean? I'm following I'm watching them. From afar. Yeah, from afar. I don't know how nobody telling me nothing. You know what I mean? Like, no. It's all... Did that lead to making a lot of mistakes? Probably, but I don't know what a mistake... I'm saying like in business, when you got more seasoned, did you realize like, oh, damn, I shouldn't even have done that that way or I gave up too much on it?

33:09Jermaine Dupri:I think that, like I said, I think that me staying away from people kept me from making dumber mistakes because I actually wasn't doing what they was doing. You know what I mean? I actually was just doing things that I thought people was doing and then find out that that wasn't what they was doing. You didn't have a negative to path forward. That's actually a good point. A lot of times people only look at it like if you don't have a mentor, but you got a negative mentor too. And they can lead you down. You got a bunch of people that tell you, you should do this, you should do this. And if you look at what they did.

33:42They ain't really work.

33:43Jermaine Dupri:They ain't work. Shai brought up something that I think is interesting. you wrote for a lot of people that weren't signed to your label. Ajit comes to mind for sure because he wasn't signed, but the relationship feels like he's a social deaf artist, but he's not. Was there any conflict in that where it was like, you know, this guy is the guy I know he's going to be a guy. I'm going to write for him, but he's not officially signed. Or was it just like, let me help elevate this guy's career? At first, I feel like I was in that mode. it was a little conflict between LaFace because I was promoting Usher with SoSoDeaf.

34:23Jermaine Dupri:So if I did things in the city, it would say, you know, Jermaine Dupri, SoSoDeaf Party hosted by Usher. And then I'd get a call from LaFace like, yo. Yeah, I should not sign to SoSoDeaf. But you're on the first two singles, right? I mean, every song. I'm saying I'm looking about the video the my way like your voice is all that you're there. I'm writing all them songs It's all me So I mean it's not but I'm saying they gave me a shit with that same mentality I was told take usher and do what you did with Chris Cross and Don't bring him back to you feel like you got there. That's what they told me And I should came to my house in College Park and he stayed out there Ain't basically was living in my house and we got to know each other like brothers and we made my way.

35:14Well, how do you feel about that? Because that's something that Don Cannon had actually said to us. They had some level of frustration with Lil Uzi. And they like, nobody knew that he signed to them because he was only wearing a Rockefeller chain. They're like, well, we gave you a chain too. Like, what's up with that one? And even Jack Harlow, I didn't even know that he was signed to them. So how do you feel like from an executive standpoint, can you understand frustration if like, damn, I'm investing in this artist and he running with a different camp?

35:43Jermaine Dupri:I can because LA and Babyface are not from hip-hop, right? They not cut from the cloth that I come from, so therefore, at that time, they didn't understand what me telling Usher to be a part of a camp was anyway. Like, I wasn't looking at it like the name. I was looking at it like he was part of my crew, right? In hip-hop, that's how we move, right? It's like if y 'all tell me to come to a party that y 'all got going and y 'all name all over it, I don't care if y 'all name all over it. I'm rolling with y 'all because we supposed to be crew. Right. So it's like that's just how my mind was thinking about it from that perspective.

36:25Jermaine Dupri:They was thinking about it from like a business, you know, like Usher looks like he's on So So Dep. Cool. Right. It's working. So So Dep is actually moving around the city more than you guys are. You you need him to look like this because the last record didn't work. And I don't think that, I think that at the time, they weren't paying attention to that. They weren't paying attention to how much in the culture that I am or was at that point in time. Yeah, and so, like, he's not on the label, but are you now seeking more talent? Because I think, like, right at that time, Brat might be pulling out her second album.

37:01Are you trying to add more talent to the label because of that? Like, here's the success of somebody I'm writing for. Let me get somebody in-house as well?

37:08Jermaine Dupri:No, because I'm trying to find I mean, every time I make a project still to this day, I'm just like okay, this is that. I gotta find something else. So I wasn't even gonna look for like, if I'm writing all Usher records or producing Usher, I'm not getting ready to try to bring another male artist in there because then I'm gonna start competing with myself. Even though I did that, but it was a male group, so I signed Jagged Edge. They weren't like Usher. I want to Sorry about classics. I told B. Cox this, but Jay Heartbreak, one of them. We'll get to the classics. Ask yourself, what are your best people spending their time on right now?

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39:00Paid for by Public Investing. Brokered services by Open to the Public Investing, Inc., member FINRA, and SIPC. Advisory services by Public Advisors, LLC, SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com slash disclosures. Missatisfying breads and pastas and want to add protein without going overboard on calories? Stacked sandwiches, fully loaded bagels, noodles built for serious sauce. Hero Bread delivers up to 19 grams of protein. Think bagels and elbow noodles with nearly twice the protein of national bestsellers, but less than half the calories.

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40:06Calorie content has been reduced from 270 to 130 and 200 to 80 calories per serving for plain bagels and noodles, respectively. Data accurate as of 220-26. Financial growth begins long before the first investment. It comes from understanding what you're building toward, what's at stake, and what success looks like for you. At Oppenheimer, we bring bold thinking guided by the full strength of our expertise to put capital to work building and protecting wealth that lasts generations. Put the power of Oppenheimer thinking to work for you. Wealth Management, Capital Markets, Investment Banking. So, because I act that...

40:46You are a big guy, huh? I'm a music guy. Okay, okay. I'm asking that because I'm the kid who was in the CD store when Life of 1472 comes out, Money Anything. So now, like, you're the artist. So the person that is writing the songs, producing the songs, curating the talent, now you are the talent. What was that transition like?

41:11Jermaine Dupri:it wasn't even on transition because I'm writing songs so much at this time period that people would hear songs that I was writing and be like yo you should just keep that and I'm like no so I write a song and I rap on the song and I'm just doing it for fun because this is also an exercise that i'm gonna go back this is also an exercise that i was thinking about this morning when i looked at the crisscross thing the crisscross exercise that i had to go through to even get crisscross to the place that they they are in the living color was that these kids was regular neighborhood kids right they was listening to rap music that wasn't from Atlanta so Ice Cube and whatever else was out in 91, 90, whatever.

42:03And no

42:05Jermaine Dupri:artists from Atlanta. By the way we had bass music but it wasn't nobody that was like that had come out and had a number one record that was actually looking like somebody that was going to be a superstar in Atlanta, right? So all of the inspiration and motivation for rap and hip-hop was coming from LA and New up. So I write them a song and they'll be like, nah, nah, that ain't it. And you got 11 and 12 year old kids telling you chit-chit, man. Chit-chit, man. And I went through this for a year of them not liking what I was writing for them. And I'm like, and I had to start really like understanding that

42:58Jermaine Dupri:once I get them to like what I'm doing, I done got good, right? Or I done got better than I am. So I was writing so much. I'm writing so many songs. And then one day I wrote this song called Little Boys in the Hood and they set up on the seats and they was looking like, oh, that's our song. Like it felt like it was theirs. It felt like I had got to a space. I saw that energy and I was like, oh, okay I'm getting close So I start paying attention to what I did when I wrote that song and how I kept writing So what I'm saying is I'm writing so much as just a rapper I don't know what I'm gonna do with these songs I'm throwing shit away because they don't like it, whatever it is So in that same process, I go into Usher I go into Brack I mean, I write Escape album I'm writing so many songs and then so it's just stuff that's just sitting around i'd be rapping and i start writing songs that don't even be songs that come out i'm just in the house making stupid songs so i wrote this song called jazzy hoes that actually was on life in 1472 but i did the verses of jazzy hoes over shook ones because i ain't had no i went i wasn't making the music i was just like i'm just gonna rap but i had all i like is some jazzy hoes i put the hook on on shook ones and i put on like we You had little mixtapes or whatever.

44:20Jermaine Dupri:I put it on like a mixtape. And my friends was like, yo, you should do something with that song, man. That song, we want that song. People was asking for it. So then my, so it was just like, I did another song like that. I did another song like that. And it was just like throwaways. I wasn't even like serious about it. People was like, yo, you should put out an album. And I'm like, I don't really care to put out an album. And they was like, you should do it. And I'm thinking like, y 'all, it wouldn't take nothing for me to put a record out. I'm doing this already. I got like five songs already.

44:49Jermaine Dupri:I could just put somebody on the songs. And that basically was what it was. It wasn't even like no pressure. It was just like. I'm throwing. I got them. Yeah, like a breathing. Let's just put it out. So, yeah. When they talk about the top hip hop labels of all time, I don't think So So Def gets the full recognition or, you know, they kind of left out of that conversation a lot. When you talk about Bad Boy, Def Roe, and then, of course, Cash Money. Um, why do you think that that is? Um, one, it ain't no bad shit that's ever been said to even have a conversation, right? Like, none of my artists, they ain't sued me.

45:33Jermaine Dupri:None of my artists want to fight me. Um, my art is still working to this day. You know what I mean? It ain't no badness in the mix of it, one, which it shouldn't be. But hip hop is bad. hip-hop is driven by bad shit, right? And the more bad shit is the people that you hear about in hip-hop as opposed to the niggas that ain't doing the bad shit. But then, like I said, also, I'm so Atlanta, right? I'm not the guy that's like, I'm saying I'm from Atlanta just to be saying it. I'm the nigga that's out here that's been fighting for this city before LaFace was in Atlanta. before, you know what I mean?

46:13Jermaine Dupri:I've been here doing this and I feel like I really, really carry the energy of Atlanta. Look how long it took Atlanta to actually become what Atlanta is today. Well, do you also think that maybe it's because like the roster doesn't include a franchise player? Like, ooh, a top 10. Like, no, no, no. Listen, like a top 10 artist of all time like he's like that boy has biggie tupac and even cash money had like there was no like yeah there's no like one yeah so that's i'm sorry i gotta answer well like ultimately what that what happened is also is that the powers that be thought hip-hop was supposed to be that right the powers that be thought hip-hop was supposed to be Tupac, Biggie, this person, this person, right?

47:09Jermaine Dupri:All of them niggas is 25 plus, right? Social death is under the age. You're younger. I'm the person that created this YN shit. Yeah. I'm telling you. When you said franchise player, I'm thinking yo, Bao is a franchise player. When I'm being franchise player, I'm saying I thought you were saying Mount Rushmore, greatest rappers of all time. But I'm thinking, like, in the sense, because my rebuttal would have been, like, is he not one of the biggest artists of all time? He is. Is he still touring? He is. Is he still showing out shows every year? He is. Is he still acting? How many guys have done that?

47:51Jermaine Dupri:Yeah, it's not even about that. It's really, like I said, what people, then this is another thing. What people don't discuss is what I brought to hip hop. I brought youth to hip hop. When Criss Cross came out, the entire rap game was 20 plus years old. These liggas was 11 and 12. I was 19, right? You had never seen nobody, teenagers, or not even teenagers, with a number one rap song. Like, we're talking about top 100, I'm not talking about R &B. Yeah. I'm talking about the top 100. Criss-cross, 11 and 12 years old at the top of the music chart. And not in that way, either. Like, very, like you said, like a number one record, pop chart.

48:43Because I'm thinking like there was a youngster, Shaim. They didn't get close.

48:48Jermaine Dupri:They didn't get close. Not even. No, no, they didn't. I'm admitting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just saying, I'm saying this for the people that's listening. not even fucking close. That's an interesting perspective. I never thought about it like that. So you wasn't even trying to play in that realm of, I need the biggest adult. Your realm was I got young artists. No, I'm young. I don't mind you. This is what I'm saying. I'm so young. I don't know these old ass niggas. Oh, so they was old too, man. I don't know these niggas. I don't know niggas that's old. I'm 19. I can't get in no club in Atlanta.

49:25You're really at like you whatever's happening in Atlanta is what you know.

49:29Jermaine Dupri:I mean, whatever's happening where I can go. I can't go nowhere. So like Safeness is like when I did Chris Cross album, we went to Philly because they were signed to Rough House. And Rough House, you know, that's what Schooley D, DMX was signed to Rough House, the Fugees, Cypress Hill. and it's a label there, Studio 4. Rough House Records, they recorded in the Studio 4. So we went to Philly to actually record the Criss Cross album. I'm in Philly trying to go out and go around and see things. Now, if I was like 21, 23, 24, 25, I probably would have found whoever Steady B or whoever was in Philly.

50:16Jermaine Dupri:Because I'm out in the streets. They got a club in Philly card after midnight, right? I'm so hip-hop, but I can't get in. I stand outside the club just so I can listen to what niggas is doing in the club. They won't let me in because I'm not 21 years old, but I'm standing outside. I'm looking at the niggas, the clothes, niggas got bubbles, goosely. We're in Philly and I'm just soaking up all of this energy. But what I'm saying is I'm so, I'm too young to actually participate in what the rap game looked like at 92. Got you. Right? So therefore, Criss Cross sell 8 million records. It don't even get, it don't even translate in the world that you're talking to because them niggas ain't selling 8 million records and they don't even want to talk about it because they supposed to be the pillars of rap.

51:08Jermaine Dupri:And it's these 11 and 12 years old. So then they start trying to make it seem like young niggas ain't supposed to be in rap music. Discredit it. Yeah, so they try to discredit, you know what I mean? Like, that's what starts happening with Jermaine Dupri. And you start having people try to say, because I'm young, and the people around me is young, that this music is not rap music. That's what really happened. Let me quickly follow up on that. So where do you place the label in the history of label? Because you got Bad Boy, you got Rough Riders, you got Rockefeller, you got cash money, you got No Limit where do you place So So Deaf in the history of I mean it's right, it should be in the conversation I mean you know, I ain't put out a bunch of artists that didn't sell records it's a couple of them labels you just named niggas

52:04Jermaine Dupri:I'm just saying listen by the way, I'm super competitive because of this how I had to come on. I've been fighting forever, right? But no, I'm saying, ultimately, if we look at it, I got things that happened at SoSoDev that did not happen in any other label. Like, no female artist sold a million records before SoSoDev. That automatically should put SoSoDev in the top five of hip-hop labels that you can talk about. Because as all the females that rap right now, All the solo females that's out, Lil' Kim, Foxy Brown, Cardi B, Nicki Minaj, Bratz set the play. True. She was the first one. First one.

52:55And there was female rappers, too.

52:57Jermaine Dupri:Oh, let me know. Now, some people don't listen to this because they listen stupidly. Listen, Salt-N-Pepa was out as a group. Yeah. I'm talking about as far as one female solo, a solo female artist. coming out and selling a million records. Albums. Yeah, albums. It wasn't hurting. Did you win ITWaggle battle? No. No? I don't know. It might have. It might have. Yeah. But not albums. Not albums. No albums. Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot. That's a lot. But Brat was 19 when this happened. Yeah, what's that? 94. 94? So I'm saying she's under 21. I don't know. Again. So you started the YM. You started the YM.

53:39100%. 100%. Thanks, J.D. Yeah. 100 % trying to reverse the course. If your best finance people are doing expense reports, chasing receipts, or spending time on month-end close, it's time to get Brex AF, a gentic finance that eliminates that work before it starts. Learn more at brex.com slash AF. Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi-asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto, and now generated assets, which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt.

54:17From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20 % year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one-of-a-kind index, and lets you backtest it against the S &P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com slash podcast and earn an uncapped 1 % bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com slash podcast. Paid for by Public Investing.

54:48Brokered services by Open to the Public Investing, Inc., member FINRA, and SIPC. Advisory services by Public Advisors, LLC, SEC Registered Advisor. Generated assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com slash disclosures. Miss satisfying breads and pastas and want to add protein without going overboard on calories? Stacked sandwiches, fully loaded bagels, noodles built for serious sauce. Hero Bread delivers up to 19 grams of protein. Think bagels and elbow noodles with nearly twice the protein of national bestsellers, but less than half the calories.

55:20Plus, you can get up to 32 grams of fiber per serving, a bonus when you're trying to stay full and fueled. So whether you're grilling burgers, building a serious sandwich, or digging into pasta, you're getting real flavor with a smarter protein-to-calorie balance. Hero makes loaves, buns, tortillas, bagels, and noodles with 5 to 19 grams of protein per serving that all go the distance. Shop now at Hero.co. Use code IHART for 10 % off. That's H-E-R-O dot C-O. All figures per serving. See nutrition info on Hero.co. 39 % and 61 % fewer calories than regular plain bagels and noodles, respectively.

55:54Calorie content has been reduced from 270 to 130 and 200 to 80 calories per serving for plain bagels and noodles, respectively. Data accurate as of 2020-26. Financial growth begins long before the first investment. It comes from understanding what you're building toward, what's at stake, and what success looks like for you. At Oppenheimer, we bring bold thinking guided by the full strength of our expertise to put capital to work building and protecting wealth that lasts generations. Put the power of Oppenheimer thinking to work for you. Wealth Management, Capital Markets, Investment Banking.

56:33So, the youth movement in itself brings me to that next phase of your career, obviously after the solo thing, the Bow Wow era. This is... Before we get to Bow Wow, when is the moment that you feel like you've made it? Because then the Bow Wow thing sets off a whole nother...

56:48Jermaine Dupri:I didn't feel like I made it until I did Money Anything. Really? Yeah. That's interesting. And that's because I could finally go to New York and hear my records on the radio. Out of here. You know what I'm saying? That's when I felt like, oh, these niggas really fuck with me now. Like, okay. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? But my whole focus was like, I wanted the song on the Clue tape. I wanted to be the first nigga from Atlanta to have the first song on the Clue tape. Like, these are the things that matter to me, right? So when me and Jay made money and that I called cool soon as the song was finished I'm like nigga.

57:27Jermaine Dupri:I'm getting the first song or you'll take I met the lot and he was like what the placement If you have using our first five songs, that's a nice like I'm promise you I got the first song on the tape and that's all I cared about even with my album I didn't care about if it went gold platinum. I just wanted to have That if I get the first or clue mixtape then that means I'm hip-hop You know what I mean? Because everything else was That was supposed to be the hip That was the bible at the time For what was happening in hip hop For sure So yeah so that's you know Niggas calling me to perform at the tunnel You know what I mean I'm like So I did So I did Crisscross I did Escape I did Brat I had to be an usher.

58:21Jermaine Dupri:I ain't never got a car to go to the tunnel. I didn't want anything. Now I'm performing in New York. It actually was the Sleeping in My Bed remix first. All right. Let me just take your hand on that one. That's one of the ones. That started, that's what introduced me and Jay. That Sleeping in My Bed remix is what basically started moving that needle. That's a big one. That's a big... So, this is not... Is that the first time you're like... Because you and Brett are going back and forth on that. Yeah, well, we did it on Funkify. So, our first single on that album, we was going back and forth. But that's when I started, like, saying, let's do it more.

59:06Jermaine Dupri:And Sleeping In My Bed was the beginning of us, actually. Every time you see Brett, you see me type. And then, I mean, you're still doing the R &B, right? Because you said J.E. Heartbreak. That's like 99, I feel like. and so there's a there's a like a few years in between where it's like jd's just writing songs he's performing there's there's a second album yes second album comes and then like there's the bow wow talk about the moment that this happens because this is now 106 in part tl is the thing seeing artists you know we didn't have video music box rap city was a thing but tl was like and then we got 106 and at the same time you're bringing this new artist to us talk about the discovery and like the moment that this thing just went haywire i mean bow wow was designed right so bow wow basically was like he he he came from my friend steve prudhomme he signed him and he signed him to Epic, right?

1:00:07Jermaine Dupri:And so Epic was upstairs on Madison and I was, you know, in social death and Columbia was downstairs. And they called one day, I think Ron Sweeney was like the president of the company and he called and he's like, you know, JD wants you to work with this kid that we got. That's your pocket. And I'm like, all right, cool. I mean, I'm saying so I go check him out and they you know, they telling me that he was signed to death row That's the kid that's talking on the Snoop Dogg album. They giving me the whole spill. I'm like, all right, cool I wasn't really into it because I also felt like I couldn't I'm like I don't I don't believe that lightning will strike twice and you know, I mean, I don't believe it.

1:00:52You're getting older He's younger. No crisscross. Yeah, I'm saying I did that. Yeah, I'm saying from a standpoint where like you're 19 they're 11, right? But now you've gotten older, and this kid is... Yeah, he's

1:01:04Jermaine Dupri:11. 11. Yeah. So, yeah, by the way, I'm out of the teenage era, and I'm starting to think like these old niggas that was speaking before, if I can't push them out. We might want in the sales. So, I'm like, um... I don't know about this. It's my homeboy, Steve. By the way, Steve was the guy who gave me my first million dollars at EMI. He left EMI and went to epic so me and steve just that's my brother so he telling me jd i'm telling you that i got it you can make him a star and i'm just like it ain't as easy as it you know as y 'all think it was or whatever it is um and i started thinking about how long it had been since i put crisscross out and that was the only thing that actually made me do it it had been 10 years since crisscross So therefore, I kept looking at the fact that young kids didn't have a group for the last six years.

1:02:06Jermaine Dupri:I'm like, they don't have no music. Like, who actually is servicing the 11 and 12-year-old generation of people out here with music? Crisscross has been that. That's what they were. Crisscross started getting older. They started smoking weed. They started turning into these old nicks. Tonight's a nice, that's a good record. Well, they ain't really slap on good people. I mean, they, you know, but like what I'm saying, they got older. They started making, didn't want to make records like Tonight Tonight. They wanted to be more in the mix. So they are moving away from this audience where these people are still kids.

1:02:46Jermaine Dupri:And that's the only thing I could pay attention to. And I still wasn't really totally sold. So then one night me and Jay-Z had a show here in Atlanta. Well, I had a show here. and I think it was a V-103 jam or something like that. And I had Jay-Z come and we did Money and Thing. And I introduced Jay to Bow Wow backstage.

1:03:09And while I was on stage, Bow Wow kept saying, let me rap.

1:03:14Jermaine Dupri:This ain't even playing. Like, I'm like, fuck no. Like, you're not about to get up and come out. So I don't know what you're going to do. Right. So then he just kept doing it. He was on the side of the stage. He kept saying let me rap So I'm like okay listen So I got it on the mic I'm like yo I got this little kid on the stage Keep saying he want to rap Then hoes start saying yeah let the little nigga rap So everybody started pushing me to let him rap He came out And the DJ put a beat on him And he was like nah stop the beat And his demeanor of how he told the DJ to stop the beat At 12 years old Just wasn't regular Like it just wasn't Matter of fact, he was 11 It wasn't like Crisscross I taught them everything that they knew About hip hop This kid Did this without me telling him to do anything He was just like, yo, stop me And he said, watch this And he started rapping a cappella to the crowd So he already knew They ain't gonna hear me on the beat They need to hear me And he started rapping a cappella to the crowd and the crowd was all adults and they start, oh shit, oh shit and I'm like, oh you know, this always happens with kids so I'm still fighting it, I'm like, yeah, okay but I still had to pay attention to his demeanor his demeanor was just like different and once I started realizing, okay, Bow Wow actually is a rapper this time I actually have a person who wants to be a rapper Criss Cross was like, rap, oh that shit They was actually thinking like, they was talking like rap was whack.

1:04:55Jermaine Dupri:They wanted to do something else, like go to the mall instead of rap. That's what their thing was. Bow Wow was straight a rapper. His mentality was just like, I'm going to be the best rapper ever. I remember I started writing songs to him and the first song I wrote for him, it wasn't that good. He Ain't Love It Through Same Thing. It was the same process. And then I started thinking Maybe I can't I'm not the greatest writer for this So I'm like Brat help me write this rap Right and then me and Brat wrote Bounce With Me But Brat raps faster than me And she from Chicago Her style was different And she wrote the whole verse about Putting the hand in the The net like Vince Carter She wrote that whole rap And when I heard her do it I'm like this little nigga ain't gonna be able to do that And he heard it And he was like y 'all leave me here I'm gonna have it done When y 'all come back And we left him at the studio And when we came back the song was done bouncing me And I was just like oh Okay you might You might really be something So then at that point once it clicked to me That he could possibly be something Then that's when my mind started thinking about the marketing Which 106 and Park didn't exist at this point in time This is a big controversial conversation that I had with Ray Daniels about the 106 and Park thing.

1:06:27Jermaine Dupri:106 and Park didn't exist when we created Bounce With Me. I kept watching TRL and I'm saying, listen, we don't have this space. We don't have a space for artists like Bow Wow. We need this space, right? We know Stephen Hill. We need to go talk to Stephen Hill And let's try to come over to our own show They come back with the 106 and Park After we had this conversation 106 and Park was at Del Palo The very first time It was the first time Bow Wow performed at that very first 106 and Park The first time the show ever Was talked about And it was at Del Palo And he killed it And that's why I named him Mr.

1:07:10Jermaine Dupri:106 and Park Because he performed at the The birth of that show and became it and became you know what I mean and and this was you know when the show first came on the voting process was a real process before the labels got involved and started trying to not understand how Bow Wow was like so dominating everyday number one there was a real process right so Bow Wow was winning like he was killing every artist on one of a single part and people couldn't understand that. And it was like, finally, we have a space. We have a space that's like TRL for black artists. So that was, you know what I mean?

1:07:54Jermaine Dupri:That was all something that happened. I don't know if 106 and Park would have popped off if it weren't for Bow Wow. Fair. He played a major part. Fair. Played a major part. Yeah. Well, Bow Wow, because then he becomes a movie star. He just becomes a global sensation, right? Like you obviously had Experience from working with kids in the past So that I'm assuming that helped you With Bow Wow right Yeah but like I said It was like night and day though Bow Wow was an artist Chris and Chris was just like They were like sponges So he was harder No yeah well he actually told me he didn't like Chris Cross He was like one of them type Like he was like You know what I mean he was trying to be a rapper But his own identity Yeah, he was trying to be in, you know, and he was really on the like Snoop.

1:08:44Jermaine Dupri:No, he was really like that. Like he was like that. Our first name was Kid Gangsta. So the mentality of the kid that you hear on that Snoop Dogg album is really Bow Wow. Like he's a bad little motherfucking kid that thought he was a gangster rapper. I thought that's what he was going to be. And he wanted to be in that space. He didn't actually want to be. He didn't want to do jump. He wanted to be. But you had to educate him of like no This is the pathway to go No I had to make songs that fit His character Right so I had to start like Paying attention to actually who he was Right so the whole thing was like In Bounce With Me video when the dog Is coming down the street and he transforming I had to like start thinking about This guy wants to be like this He don't want to be like this So Jermaine don't make him like crisscross Because that ain't who he is you gotta let him be who he is and you gotta put your arms around what he got going on and how you gonna make, cause I mean the key to writing artists for artists to meet is that you always have to do something that sparks their attention and if you understand that and you do things that make them wanna do it, you gonna get a better product Alright, this is a tough question for you but you're the only person I can answer.

1:10:08You led it right up into the 2004. Think of this year in terms of your career as a songwriter. Is 2004 your greatest year as a songwriter or is it 2006, I'm not sure patient, I'm meaning. That confession time when you got four number ones or 2006 when you, I mean, I can't even count how many number ones happened. Which was the best year for you as a songwriter?

1:10:34Jermaine Dupri:I think probably, I don't even know what year it was, but I had one, two, and three. And I had never seen that before. From Confessions? No. Oh. It was Bow Wow and Sierra. It was, I think We Belong Together. And I might be Shake It Off. It was one of like, because whatever year, I think we'll Shake It Off because We Belong together kept Shake It Off from becoming Mariah's, you know, 18th number one record. So yeah, it was that. But it was like they were stacked like that. I had never seen her ever. And I was just like, you know, god damn. I actually made t-shirts of like one, two, and three. That was, I think that was my three.

1:11:23Jermaine Dupri:You'll never believe that you can do that. One, two, and three. Yeah. I'm asking because Confessions in 2004, there's four number one singles. Yeah. Which is, I mean, how many albums do that? Not a lot. Actually, it was like, yeah, four, I think, yeah. My Boo, Burn, Confessions. Confessions, yeah. Yeah, by the way, My Boo was left in the trash. Oh, he wasn't going to put that on the album? No, he wasn't on the album. LA left that off the album. It was on the repackage. Yeah, the duck. I went to that tour twice. Yeah. Just because of how incredible it was. left that song off the album. He didn't like that song.

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1:14:37when you was writing confessions did you know this is going to be like life-changing like

1:14:45Jermaine Dupri:you know I thought this was going to be mad at me because I was telling like you're telling your Yeah, true story. Yeah, but I'm saying I'm telling it in a way that a man's telling on himself like Oh, they're plays like dirty Mac like you like not even dirty Mac you just why are you exposing your own girls? This stuff to women to start thinking that that's how we think that's what I was believing was glad So you you was really just right you just writing But it's done in a way. It's like a it's a it's almost like a story album, right? Where it's not just a regular album like it's it's so when you because usher Would did you have a conversation with usher like your look?

1:15:26This is what I'm gonna put on you because that's a lot for artists to take on like it No, you see this is like I trust you whatever you want to do with you.

1:15:34Jermaine Dupri:I mean what else I'm saying like confessors was like It wasn't even no idea about confessions I actually got a writer's block which don't happen a lot, but I had caught writer's block and I left the studio and when I left the studio I'm driving to PCH. And when I'm driving down PCH, I took the beat. And when I'm driving down PCH, I'm looking at all the things that I'm saying in the song. It's like the size of Kaisa Soze. It's like that. If I wouldn't have been on third leaving Babyface Studios, so I'm guessing that's third, going to La Cienega, so it's like third in La Cienega, so you're sitting right there on the corner.

1:16:15Jermaine Dupri:I was at the light, and then Beverly Center was right here. Like the rain so the music is playing right and if the Beverly Center one there you wouldn't even hear that And that's all it just happened to be right there. And that's what I that's just I'm just writing like I'm looking Hmm, I'm like damn. I'm at the Beverly Center like man. I give him fam who sees me. Oh, so I wasn't a true story No, I'm looking at the Beverly Sun. I'm just right inspired by what you in Oh, so that was all just you juice there wasn't truth to that I thought that was like you was actually going through these things in your real life part to a part that's a confession is one we heard Confessions 2 before we heard Confessions 1.

1:16:51Jermaine Dupri:Yeah, that's awesome. LA left one off. Hold on, hold on. You see what I'm saying? Because we heard Confessions 2 first. But what they did was they put part one verse at the beginning of the video to go into part two. So you could start hearing it. But every time I was in LA I was with my ex-girlfriend. All of that shit is like just me thinking of what people think. Because I feel like that whole album is with the like a lot of the songs are, it wasn't like, that wasn't it wasn't just the one song. It was a concept album of somebody that went through a breakup that somebody was fucking up a bunch of times.

1:17:36That was a coincidence. The biggest coincidence and I don't know if it's part of the marketing is that at the time because he's fresh off of 8701 till he's in the video. This is his girl. There's a breakup. Here comes confessions. That's why they broke up. Yeah, that's what everybody thought. Everybody thought that that was a real story that us shit went through. It had nothing to do with it. Oh, we ran with that.

1:17:58Jermaine Dupri:She had nothing to do with that. Like, it was just like, yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm playing on it too. Every time I'm in LA, I'm with my ex-girlfriend. I'm playing on, you know he got a girlfriend, right? So I'm writing it like that, but I'm not thinking about, it's not about her. And that whole story of like that part of the song had nothing to do with Usher. But you know like that's what it's made for. I want you back. Like so many times. Superstar. All of those songs like we was listening to it and I was like I think I was in college when that came out and I remember these girls was talking about it and they was like really having a debate of like yeah it's Usher man I can't believe he did all this shit.

1:18:35Everybody was convinced. Everybody was convinced that that was his real life and he was just documenting. That's why it was so impactful because it was like people was going through that and it was like damn somebody of his stature is actually going through it and it's relatable it sure felt real yeah and i was it was all coincidence

1:18:52Jermaine Dupri:because if the beginning of usher's album he wanted to do an album called real talk basically and that's what it was so i think all of the producers that was outside of you know everybody trying to write songs they was trying to write songs that was like real talk basically a man actually having real talk. So what that actually did was it like, one song was Death Birds and the real talk, and my songs was The Confessions, and it just started feeling like it all was like a glue of like all talking about the same thing. Who's idea was it, because this is very rare that what happens, and this is why I think it's one of the, it is the best R &B album of all time.

1:19:31Some people might argue, I think TP2 could be in the conversation. There's some other ones. Who decided not to make Superstar a single? I don't know. Right, because I feel like that song has lived on maybe even better than some of the songs on the album. Oh, yeah, 100%. I mean, I think all of them, like, Bad Girl. Bad Girl.

1:19:53Jermaine Dupri:Bad Girl, they made it in a video. They made a video for Bad Girl. But, yeah, I also feel like,

1:20:04Jermaine Dupri:what would it have been, the fourth single? Yeah, they probably would have been a called out of the video. But how many videos? Third. You can have a whole album full of videos. As I'm saying, it was like, after, like, mind you, after, after. Yes, first. Well, caught up, was caught up fourth. Caught up was fourth. Yeah, caught up was fourth. Because it was Yeah, Burn, Confessions, Caught Up, and then My Boo. Yes. Yeah, that's what made it five. Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, it could have been caught up between caught up and, but he did like Red Light. Out of video. Huh? The extended version, the Red Light song.

1:20:43Jermaine Dupri:Yeah, but I don't think that, that wasn't a single. Nah, nah, that was like when you bought the bonus CD. I think, cause Caught Up was more up-tempo, that he needed more tempo. Cause we was down in Burn, Confessions was down, so it was like, let's get back to the tempo. I mean, that was LA, I can't, I don't have nothing to do with that. I gotta get him there. But yeah. From a music side, cause we've been talking about this all day, from a business side, Quincy Jones just sold his well, Quincy Jones' estate just sold his catalog$500 million. I don't know if that's the full catalog because that seems not a lot of money for Quincy Jones' catalog.

1:21:18I don't know. But what's your thoughts? Because we've seen this happen for years now. We was just with P, coach from Quality Control yesterday. What's your thoughts on selling catalogs and would you ever sell your catalog?

1:21:33Jermaine Dupri:I thought about selling some pieces is in my catalog um because you can it's like property you can sell some pieces without selling everything i mean if somebody want to buy something they want they're going to buy they you know it's just like a house um if you got a lot of them right i got a lot of a lot of them so i could you know i mean which one you want to buy but i also was thinking about this um i was thinking about this because i you know i'm into art and i was looking at like basquiat and I was looking at like the walls and when you look at like the way that they made these paintings, right?

1:22:14Jermaine Dupri:It feels like somebody warned them that this was gone, that the price was going to go up. Right. And I feel like.

1:22:27Jermaine Dupri:In the beginning of my career, I didn't know what I was, what I was. I didn't know the power that I was. I also didn't know what I was going to bring to the industry. I was just shooting. Right. But now I've been here 35 years and I can see that all the records that I wrote in 92, they bought the revert back to me anyway. Right. That ain't normal. Right. Like Prince died telling us about writing slave on his face because he wanted his masters. Right. If he could have stayed here Another 10-15 years And made more music They was going to come back to him anyway Right What you see me and other artists That are like legacy artists I guess at this point in time We're doing something that the music business Has never actually seen A lot of these people When they wrote these songs prior to me 30 years after their records came out They had passed away Or they did some overdose something happened where they didn't um they weren't able to actually put their hands on on their projects and make proper deals so with that being said i'm looking at this saying i understand what selling you you know selling your publishing is but i'm also the first of my kind that'll actually be able to walk into everything that i wrote 40 years ago actually coming back to me.

1:23:56Jermaine Dupri:Explain that for the people that might not be familiar with what you're talking about. When you talk about masters and you talk about publishing, I did a publishing deal with, like I said, with Sony, where they get 50 % of the writing that I get. But it's a... I think the law is 40 years. Where anything that goes over 40 years, it automatically comes back to the originator. So their 50 % goes back to you. I think it might be 35. Yeah, their 50 % come back to me and then I become 100 % of all of them songs that have been split moving forward. Right. And that is just like that. That's never really happened in hip hop.

1:24:39Jermaine Dupri:You know what I mean? Like a lot of like I said, the guys that's in here, we don't, you know, they don't. And they current still they still currently on the on the on the front line. You won't actually see that. So with me being in that space, I have to look at it from a different perspective because the people that I've seen sell their catalogs, they don't actually put out that much music after they do it. Right. I'm still out here putting out records, still in the studio every night. I'm still I still have a space to go and I still have a place that I want to go to. So it ain't really even in my I mean, it's a lot of money out there.

1:25:16Jermaine Dupri:Yeah. But, you know, if you keep working, you're going to make money. Why do you think that there's such a big push to buy catalogs now? Do you think that it's going to be, they're going to train AI on it? Like why all of a sudden people just getting 200, 500, like what, what makes music catalog so valuable? I mean, cause you can do something with it. You know what I mean? Like you got, you can take like safe instance, like, Oh shit. Cause he chose, she got, you know, they got thriller out of that shit. You could do whatever you want to do with that. Michael Jackson music. Like, and, um, it's just like, it's just like anything like i seen like like um i seen a commercial today with ludicrous and he he's on there and he talking about move it's like something about grass or something and he's talking about move bitch and it's like the more culture becomes cool to um mainstream mainstream america that didn't think it was that cool when it became cool yeah right because that's that's also what we're we're we're in a space where we was trying to get into the met gala we got into the met gala but when we went it's a generation of people that weren't paying attention to why we was at the met gala now the met gala's on tmz right the met gala should not be on tmz nobody was like that one they weren't it was like a quiet fly thing if you was in the fashion you went now this shit is like so it's like another level of people that's paying attention to the culture of hip-hop if if you will with that being said um what they see could happen with the music is what you got to pay attention to because they're looking at it from a perspective of like star wars or shit now like they see you putting like um i mean like jay-z jay-z i see jay-z have syncs every day with like different car companies and all kind of stuff.

1:27:10Jermaine Dupri:It's like with these companies to use rap music or urban sounding records is a fad in their business. So to find a song is a thing, right? So, so these guys are looking at like, shit, we need to own this space. Yeah. You know what I mean? We need to own this space. And, um, ultimately if you buy Quincy Jones, um, catalog for 500, what you said? million. If you buy his catalog for 500 million and you go broke, you can sell it for 500 million or more. You know what I mean? That's what it is. And it's not going to depreciate. It's just going to keep going up. Yeah. I mean, when I hear about it, I'm thinking licensing.

1:27:56How are they going to figure out how the license is? From your side, I'm thinking I think it's 35 years, right? And so we're getting close to that 96 where, you know, life changes. Instead of having 50 % ownership, now I have 100 % ownership. Here comes a bigger evaluation. You said that there's some parts of the catalog that you might in your mind, like, what pieces would you think that, is it the ones that revert to 100 % or are there pieces?

1:28:25Jermaine Dupri:Nah, well, I had a meeting with somebody one day and they came to have, I mean, because I was trying to, like, hear about this buying publishing. And a guy came to my studio and he had a beat with me and he only wanted to buy this album that i did on this artist called dundria is the artist i did a female artist named dundria and fat fat huh fat fat that's on youtube to me oh yeah yeah yeah what am i what the fuck yeah uh so yeah so i I did this project where, and he came and he was talking about her album. And he was like, we want to purchase her publishing, your publishing from that album. And I was like, how much is it?

1:29:11Jermaine Dupri:And he's like,$200 ,000. And I'm like, you want to give me$200 ,000 for this? Okay. so you mean I could just take$200 ,000 for this album and you gonna go on but I'm gonna take$200 ,000 and go my way that's when I started realizing like oh I could split this shit up right so I probably could go get $50 million over here and still have some songs left over and you're still making songs talk about that because the song rising hasn't stopped right Money Long was probably number one was that the last number one Yeah, and Grammy. And Grammy. Yeah. I mean, you're still doing this. So, like, there is back catalog, but there's new catalog that you're still creating.

1:29:59Talk about that process and what still excites you, like, from artists today. Um. Ask yourself, what are your best people spending their time on right now? Expense reports, receipt chasing, month-end close that takes weeks. You become what you spend on, and that's not what you're building toward. Brex is the intelligent finance platform that eliminates that work before it starts. AI agents that handle the manual stuff automatically, so your team can spend their time on what actually compounds. It's time to get Brex AF. Learn more at brex.com slash AF. Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously.

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1:32:38Jermaine Dupri:It's not a lot of artists that excite me from today. It's just the fact that I know, like I said, I'm looking at this from a different perspective now. I'm also, I'm also, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm experiencing things that I never thought I would experience. Like, so say for instance, Summer Walker sampled, You Make Me Wanna, and then she put Usher on the song. that Usher calls me and said, J.D., I want you to write my verse. So now I'm writing a new verse on an old song that I wrote prior. So I'm getting double publishing. I'm getting new publishing and I'm getting old publishing. Oh, damn. That's crazy.

1:33:13Jermaine Dupri:That happened again. It happened again. So then that was the first time that it happened. Yeah. So then it just happened again with the Chris Brown record. The Chris Brown sample, Nice and Slow. He put Usher on the remix. and I wrote Usher parts on the remix. So then I'm getting publishing from that song, new publishing, and old publishing from the record of them sampling it. Did you hear the A Boogie record? Yeah. Yeah, I had to clear that. Okay. And I was thinking, because it feels like, I remember him playing it, and then they played it for Mariah, and then my mom, like, wait, that's JD. Yeah, I mean, I remember them sending that song.

1:33:55Jermaine Dupri:She had to clear her records. I mean, I don't got to clear, but I had to clear it on my part of what I have and that's all. Gotcha. How come the verses never happened? Bad Boy vs. So So Def. I know y 'all had talked about that a lot. Obviously this is way before Puff went to jail but that was a very highly anticipated... Or too much money. Like too much money. Too much money? Yeah. That would have to be paid to you guys? Yeah. Or you was asking for too much money? Swift was like, nah, we can... I mean, you know, I mean, me and Puff had a conversation about it. Like, you know, it's just going to be the biggest thing in hip hop ever.

1:34:37Jermaine Dupri:Like, we're not going to do this just to be doing it to appease, you know, people. Like, you know, and you know, y 'all know how Puff was about getting money, bro. We had a conversation with all parties. Swiss, Swiss. We had Swiss. That's why I thought it was done. Yeah. Nah, nah. I mean, it's a photo of me and Puff backyard and Swiss comes over to Puff house. And we start having this conversation and it's like, I'm letting Puff lead it. Cause I'm like, if you get the money, I'm gonna get the money. So, you know what I mean? It wasn't like, it wasn't like a different, it wasn't a different pie.

1:35:10Jermaine Dupri:It was like, if you're going to give him money, I'm going to get paid too. So I was cool. But it was, it was, it was just a facilitating of like doing a show that level. We had to pay for all the artists to be there. You got to fly the people there. It was going to just cost a lot of money. But tell us what the venue was. Yeah. It was going to be a, you know. And then it was like, we got into an argument about him doing it in New York. And I was going to do it in Atlanta. So then it got to be like, oh, we're going to do two shows. Two shows. That would have been dope too, the R &B show and a rap show.

1:35:41Jermaine Dupri:Nah, there wasn't going to be no R &B. It was going to be just two both guys had to let it, let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Home and home. Yeah. Huh? It was going to be a home and home. Yeah. Yeah. So it was just going to be, you know, it wasn't going to, it was just, I mean, it was going Like I said, it wasn't never like what everybody... I thought we was going to have a ball. You felt confident? Yeah. I feel like when I hear you talk about it, there's no doubt in your mind that this is a win. I mean, I'm not going to say a win, but I'm going to say like, listen, if you get in a fight, if you fight Mike Tyson and you think that nigga ain't going to hit you, just wait with the ring.

1:36:15Jermaine Dupri:That's a fan. Right? That's what I'm saying. So I'm saying like, in my eyes, I'm going to get punched. You know, he got the Benchmans He got Hypnotized, he got a bunch of records That feel like Punches But I also got an area Where I go in Where he gotta figure out a lot of shit Like it ain't even the punches It's like you gotta figure it out It's a lot of number ones But not even about the number ones It's just about, you know Like we start going into The age space Right, because the Bow Wow age difference between a lot of artists and what that generation is and how they listen to music plays a lot into what goes on at versions.

1:37:01Jermaine Dupri:Like tonight I don't know what's going to happen to Tank when Tyrese start playing these records that people actually know. There's a lot of records that Tank got that's number ones but the generation that they don't know. He talk about But they don't know and I feel like when you doing verses That's where it's stuck in a boy. You know who changed it? Jada kiss. No, I know he didn't because he for me because we was there so I Know what you're saying, but what Jada kiss did what Jada kiss did he did what you supposed to do in New York What Camden was supposed to do? That's what he did. He seen it.

1:37:44Jermaine Dupri:Oh, these niggas don't want to rap they want to hide behind they little soul oh nah nah he turned on that hip hop machine niggas in there was like and they did it over who shot you and it's just like oh okay game on you know what I mean we're not going to keep talking about this and he just and he's a guy that he's top five dead alive right this ain't even like no you know you're not playing with somebody that's what I'm saying you get in a fight with niggas you gotta know who you fighting with. That's a fact. Jada's not a guy to get in the ring and just be like, uh, yeah, I mean, he gonna swing.

1:38:25Jermaine Dupri:That's a fact. That's a fact. You know what I mean? And when he swung, Cam fucked up on his freestyle. That's a fact. That's a fact. That's a fact. You know what I mean? Like, Cam had an opportunity to win a deck. I think they discounted the credit of, they thought they had more songs than the Lox. And the Lox has a lot of songs, but then when they got that freestyle battle. That's what I'm saying. So it's like, all right, even if we don't got so that nobody knows, we got a verse. We got a verse that's going to tear this shit apart. And by the way, that also plays into my thoughts of, like, what I would have done to Puff on that stage.

1:39:06It would have been more than just hit records.

1:39:08Jermaine Dupri:I'm saying I actually rap, you know? Like, I'm not. Like, I've really rapped. He got verses. Niggas wrote. for him. Like, I'm gonna make sure you niggas start realizing this. Like, you realize this? Like, that's what I'm saying. I was getting ready to go into a space where niggas was gonna be like... Oh, you was getting your lyrical rap-up, your rap-up. No, I wasn't gonna go into, like, lyrical miracle-ass rap. I'm saying, like... I'm a hip-hop baby. Like, I'm gonna start acting like a nigga that really make rap records. Right? And I'm gonna start talking shit about niggas who don't make rap records and niggas don't...

1:39:43Jermaine Dupri:Didn't that nigga write your rap? like I was getting ready to get that I might set him up for I don't write runs I don't write checks it's 20 records right 20 and 20 right I sat with this for a while I'm like you got so many what would have been number 20 what would have been like the number one the number one out of here to the diamond I don't know because I think that plays I think that's another thing I wasn't going to prepare my set like that. Okay. Because I did this with Anthony Hamilton. I DJed for Anthony Hamilton when he went up against music, I think, right? Right. And everybody was like preparing for a set.

1:40:29Jermaine Dupri:Like, he play this song, play this song, he play this song, play this song. I wasn't going into it like that. I was just going to sit there and be like, okay, I'm going to see what you're going to do. I'm going to bomb that. Right? Like, okay, if you play Carl Thomas,

1:40:47I think Benjamin's is the biggest record that they got on that side so I was going to say hit the sides the thing about it was

1:40:55Jermaine Dupri:I just kept saying I just kept saying you know unfortunately Big couldn't be there so to me it weakened the presence of what we was doing because if you having a show right and I'm bringing artists you bringing artists but then you playing an artist's song and they not there, even though it's big, it still don't have the same impact as people coming on the stage. I mean, like I said, it was going to be a fight. I wasn't getting ready, like, I wasn't getting ready back down to get punched. You gotta get punched. That's okay. In the age of AI, we see a lot of producers. I was actually watching Guru talk about some of the new technology that is being presented for producers.

1:41:40Jermaine Dupri:I was supposed to read my phone this morning. We just watch them. So we all seen them say the same things. Yeah. He was talking about how they, you know, they making syllables. You could just take the strings and any string you want. Does it play a role in how you produce? No. Not yet. Will it? No. No, not going to. I was in the studio last night doing a Kelly Rowland and I had a guitar player come to God to be doing the guitar solos on Usher. and when he finished he was like jd what you think about ai and i was like ai can't do what you just did and you could sit there and prompt it but it's like ultimately you're just telling ai to find something that somebody already did ai doesn't create something that they haven't heard that it has this they're finding the best of the best so therefore you're gonna get like that's what he was saying they're finding a way to make samples that sound like samples and it and producers are using it right of course they are because it sounds just like the samples that we are trying to find right the difference is when we're digging in the crates we can't hear what we're looking for we have to be creative and find it speed the record of this and the third the producers are going there saying make this sound like motown but speed it up to like 115 so the vocals is sped up and it really starts really sounding like a sample right that's basically to me that means that people's records are going to start sounding more and more alike because you're getting something that's not...

1:43:26Jermaine Dupri:You're not actually creating something the way that we actually find vinyl and have to put songs together. Like, the way... I mean, it might be the old guy in me, but at the same time, I just believe that you still have to put your hands on and be a little bit creative. Does it make it more cost-efficient, meaning that I don't have to pay for the sample? I could duplicate it from the industry side? Of course it does But like I said at the end of the day I never was Had money to pay for samples I just had to make it or not make it And I think that that The Not having that on your head Makes a lazy person Right If you know you have to make it to eat Then you gonna do what you gotta do If you feel like you can Slide around the side And get some food you ain't gonna really try to press the buttons and do what you gotta do I appreciate it it's been fun, before we leave, tell the people the new stuff that you're working on, the Vision and the Magic City Project I'm not sure what else, but yeah, let us know oh man, I'm just, I mean, at this point I'm just in the studio, you know the Vision album coming a lot of new artists I'm in and doing Kelly Rowland Ari Lennox out right now just, you know Just constantly making projects, you know what I mean?

1:44:51Jermaine Dupri:Every day is somebody new calling me trying to work, so, you know. There you have it, my brother, for once again. Thank you, bro. Appreciate it, man. We could do this all day. All right, guys. Thank you for rocking us. See you next week. Peace. Peace. Ask yourself, what are your best people spending their time on right now? Expense reports, receipt chasing, month-end close that takes weeks. You become what you spend on, and that's not what you're building toward. Brex is the intelligent finance platform that eliminates that work before it starts. AI agents that handle the manual stuff automatically, so your team can spend their time on what actually compounds.

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