“They Don’t Want Us to Have the Info!” Math Hoffa, Ray Daniels & Obi Omile Expose the Game

28:12There's some accountability. Going forward, this is what I'm doing. No compete cause. Not compete. Not compete. You know what I'm saying? It's important. It's very important. Paperwork is important. But then also, people need to know this too because this is important for content creators to understand. There's a thing when the YouTube algorithm starts to change. And everybody felt that from a monetary standpoint, a news standpoint, all of that. So it's like it's difficult to run a business when you're pretty much, okay, banking, I'm hitting this number every single month. And then things change.

28:53It's out of your control. You don't really necessarily know how to go about that, right? That's something that is not talked about enough. But that happened. That affected everybody across the board. But if you're the person that's running everything, you're the person that's like, okay, putting the guests together controlling the flow of the conversation kind of saying people like we want to go here, we want to go here, we want to go here alright, then you're handling the uploads, you know everything, like no one in that shop could tell me about the business of it because I knew every aspect of it and I controlled every aspect of it so the things that I know are like, I know we did good this month, but come January, the ad rate is going to drop and it's going to be dead until May.

29:42So let's hold off on whatever we got to do at this time of the day. And people, they didn't understand that. They just felt like, he got it. I hate when people say that. We did a million views. But that comes to education. If you're not educated, then you think, oh, now he's stealing money. Yeah, we had this great month in November when this episode dropped. Was that an issue for the show? Like, in terms of getting AdSense, if you're on YouTube because of the content, maybe because of profanity, did you have an issue with that? Yeah, I mean, of course, you know, with YouTube, their policies changed like every week, bro.

30:17And it's like, episodes that was hot, and it was still moving, all of a sudden, it's demonetized because there's a new policy. And it's a lot of going back and checking and, you know, requesting a review and trying to take things out of the footage. It's a lot. It's a lot. And like I said, nobody else understood that but me. So when it came to people just seeing like, oh yeah, I think the show is doing this. I think they're doing that. A lot of guesstimations. And I just don't like that type of shit. You know what I mean? It doesn't work. But they also don't talk about how hard it is when you're dealing with, how many people was on it?

30:57It was like seven of y 'all. Five. Okay, so five including you? personalities so including me so it's my five people all with different personalities you know all we as black men have been raised to want to be the man you know it's like we don't they don't teach us to be a part of it so it's like i could be doing it all it's his or it's and nobody understands like it's hard for you guys to be here and still be rocking y 'all deserve credit for that because it is almost impossible to build with most people because of their expectations of what like just because you outside and people celebrating y 'all don't mean we winning i mean that might be God sending us a sign saying we're on the right path, but winning is when we reach a certain goal.

31:34And that's probably, you know, that's, that's something to be spoken about. Cause these, I'm tired of it happening. Everybody breaking up. It takes discipline, man. It takes discipline and you got to respect and trust each other. But if you come from a cutthroat business where you expect people to be cutthroat, it's like those shadows are going to follow you. Yep. You're looking for it. I mean, are you seeing those similarities, right? I'm going to come to you because you come from the music industry, obviously in the content creation space. now. It is a filthy game, man. Is it about a content creation?

32:02Yeah. Oh, I lost everybody. Talk about it, man. I lost everybody. I'm actually feeling bad for them because I'm like, at least you got to a million. I lost everybody. I wasn't even in a montage yet. My people was leaving because people don't understand. I'm a successful music exec, so I make seven figures for music. I'm investing that. Because I want to do a podcast, I paid everybody in the room, including my co-host. and then so it's like before you started making money what i paid day one because i already know that they're gonna come in my office they see how my office is they like oh he got it so you know what how much you want i'm gonna pay you for the money and i paid everybody and then we started and then it started becoming their dream now so now they're like i got stuff to do i gotta go shoot another person podcast hold on you weren't even shooting pot i like put i created this Now all of a sudden It's like My co-host Literally left In the middle of an interview Look right there Not compete close Not compete close Not compete close Listen The crazy part is that But this is how it works though We don't think about that In podcasts And as soon as you said it I'm like If I had my phone I would have texted Chastity and Mike Like not compete close Because it's something To think about Because what people Don't understand is I'm putting you We just said it It's like I'm putting you On my album I can't take that album them out of stores no more.

33:22It's like it's evergreen. Once I upload it, and if it got millions of views, I don't want to take it down because I don't mess with you no more. So it's hard to build in any space. Y 'all want to be honest. You know it's hard. It's hard to build with broke people. And it's hard to build with broke-minded people. Broke-minded. Broke-minded people. No, because even if you broke, if you got the right mentality, you won't get to the money. Broke-minded people is hard to build with because they don't understand. It's like when people say, them Jordans cost $20 a month. Why would you pay$150? Nobody factors in that.

33:48Somebody has to fly it. They have to ship it to the store. somebody has to work at foot. Like all these people get paid to get the shoe to us unless you want to go to the factory yourself and buy all the pairs for$20. Like, it's a cost of business. the thing about it too is that very few people want to be an underboss. Tell her, tell her, nobody does. Very few people want to be an underboss. Like when they get the underboss position, they want to become the boss. Yes. Right? Because they see the line. Even if it's not what they, even if it's not the reality, it's what they think is reality. So they're like, I want to do this for myself.

34:21I want to experience this. I want to go to this party and get treated like this myself. But they don't realize like you're undercutting what we're all working towards. You know what I mean? It's a selfish mindset. Right. If we have an interview show and you go create an interview show, what's happening here? You know what I mean? Like I used to sell drugs. You know what I'm saying? So I'm looking at it like, it's my block now. What's happening here? You taking the work where? Yeah. Nah, bro. I ain't getting peace. What you doing? You cutting me? Nah, you cutting my legs. It happens every time.

35:00It's ego. It's discipline. My man, Derek Falcon, said something important. He's like, sometimes being number two is being number one. Yeah. Because you put your ego aside to let somebody else go and shine and be the face of things. Right? The show got your name on it. That don't mean I'm not important to the show. I'm part of it. Right? But sometimes we get blinded by the success of it And it's like, nah, I should have my own shit. My co-host quit to go work for free. Nuts. And ain't even on camera no more. She's literally behind the scenes. Like, it's like, if you have magic, L.A. Reed would teach me that.

35:34He said, everybody is just looking for their magic combination. Once you find the magic, once you find it, keep the world out. Don't let nobody touch it. Because once they touch it, it's over. Well, let me ask you guys, all three of you, because you'll have different perspectives. you from a music standpoint you from a startup standpoint you from coming in the game on the on the uh podcast and content creation standpoint but i had a conversation with charlamagne and he said he felt that people were not fully educated on like podcast industry which was leading them to have unrealistic expectations and was leading them to turn down good deals in hindsight but they was looking at it from a standpoint of it wasn't a good deal.

36:19You know what? There's an element that you got to add to that. You got to add to the... You have to add the other deals that you hear floating around. Oh, right. That you think. I think I got$300 million. I really got$20, but I'm going to tell you I got$170 million. It's the headlines. It's like podcasting business expected to generate$8 billion. But then you start comparing yourself to things that we never really got the full details of Cam and Mesa's situation. We never really got the full. No disrespect, I'm just saying. We never got the full details of a million dollars worth of game. We never got the full details of Joe.

37:01Nobody, like in the NBA, it's transparent. We know how much Steph Curry signed for us. So now it creates comps, right? So now if you're a similar player with a similar market value, you can say, okay, now this is what I'm worth because X, Y, and Z player got that. And this industry is all, and nobody's, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, I'm going to say this. Nobody's really sharing the information. I'm not going to say no names, but there's a couple of people I called with questions. When I got off the phone, I had more questions than I started with. And it was like, damn. Because they didn't know?

37:38They didn't want to tell. They knew. Either they didn't know. Or they didn't want to tell. Or someone else is really running their business. That's what I'm telling you. That's what I'm going. They can't tell. That's really what it is. They want to tell you, but they ain't stopped to learn it. I think it's two things. They don't know, because some people are just not fully educated, and they don't know. Or they may know, and they don't want to tell. Period. And to me, the weird part is, to me, we should all be sharing info about podcasting. And to me, if you're coming in a podcast and worrying about the cameras and the views, you don't understand the concept in my mind.

38:11Like, I swear, I've said this everywhere I go. I'm like, I look at you two guys. You two guys, like, you guys have the biggest invest festival in the world. 20 ,000 black people. Like, those are people that probably watched a few shows, but they know who y 'all are. It's like, to me, that's the problem I have with podcasting. It's like, this is an opportunity to create a brand to build something on. You're so worried about man how many views we got Well, if you don't ask how many views we got, please ask how much all these wires and cameras and people cost Well, that's it. So all right You bring up a good point because that's the thing that a lot of people are not taking advantage of it That causes problems when you only relying on views to get money Then that's that's problematic.

38:53Let me just respect right. You got to have products to sell You got to have different ancillary things where this should just be a commercial. Yeah 24 7 everything if you can get money from YouTube, that's a blessing. Yeah, but this shouldn't be But that's what we learned from hip-hop. Like, I'm in the music business. I promise you, these guys do not get royalties. They don't get royalties. They just get advances. And once you go, you get your money how you get it. The people that was here ain't here no more. You get to show money. That's how they get it. So what I'm saying is that most artists don't make money from recorded music.

39:22Like, they make money from appearances, show money, show money, more. Even the billionaires in our culture got rich off of answering items. Access. Jay is like, I'm party. Jay got rich off of liquor. Diddy became a billionaire because of liquor. Kanye became a billionaire for merchandise. Merchandise. The main thing is you want to use something to build your brand. And as long as you build your brand and you build trust, like through content or through like rap or whatever that gives you that like that like credibility that you can go and sell anything. Right. That's the point. That's how Jay-Z.

39:50That's how Man's in court. That's how Kevin Hart. That's how everybody's building their brand today. But look at look at academics. Academics is huge. But he started with. Well, he was his own man. But Complex really put him on a map. Joe even. Joe had got the Complex. And that's why turning, so sometimes a deal is more than just money. It helps elevate your platform. So now you, but you still keep your platform even when you're not with that said company. So, all right. So for all of you three, do you think that not having the right information is hurting us when we're negotiating deals? Absolutely.

40:24Definitely. Definitely. That's better design though. But I got to say, okay. All right. As far as the entertainment field, a lot of people that succeed in it didn't come from business school. That's true. You know what I'm saying? Like me personally, aside from hustling, I might have had a couple jobs here and there. Battle rap, that was like hustling. That's not money I had to report to the government. I was getting cash. You know what I'm saying? Nice. It is what it is. so once I got to this level with the podcast where it was hundreds of thousands coming through, it was like I didn't know what to do some of us come from a family where there is nobody else you can ask I'm thinking even the startups when it comes to fundraising and trying to raise money to grow your business there's so much information you don't know when it comes to other companies and how they did their deals what were the metrics that they got valued on What were the different, like, how did this VC, like, analyze their business?

41:25And, like, if you have a lot of friends who are other founders, they can give you the inside scoop on, like, how this investor works. So, like, the metrics and kind of, you know, basically, like, how to run your deal process, right? But if you don't know, then you're going in there blind, and then the VC has all the... You got to be educated to ask a question. Exactly. I asked ChatGBT a question for something similar because I'm like, I wanted to just confirm, man. They gave me a detailed answer. But like you said, if you don't even have enough education to ask a question, what are you going to ask?

41:53There's so many things right now that I'm so thankful that I have friends who are further along than I do. Because when we go and run our process now, to your point, shout out to lawyer GBT. There's so much information I've been able to ascertain to go out and hit them with questions on. Because you got to get the best deal for everyone to vote. But I can tell you what it is. I'm going to be honest. I just think it's us. They don't want us to know. Let me tell you why I say that. Ryan Coogler. Ryan Coogler. It's the biggest. How many directors have deals that we don't know they're deals? And everybody's like, here's Ryan Coogler deal.

42:28Immediately the world. Immediately the world knew. But then he goes and says, I'm not the first person to get this deal. I'm the first black person to get this deal. And what happens when we see one get, all of us feel like we're going to ask for it. And that's what the scary part is. So, for example, I contributed to when I was in music and I worked at my last job. It was like the gold rush. I mean, I can't even get to know you to know if I want to work with you because you so hot. Everybody chasing you that I'm just I'm just trying to figure out how much money you want. So it's like so it's like you got to look at it.

42:56We gave Annerly Chopper eight million. Right. It's like how the hell I'm going to tell him what to do now. You know, it's not like everything he did got him the biggest deal in history. How do I go tell him now what to do? Right. So to me, I think it's how they treat us. And what I would say is, is that we all should be picking up the phone saying, here's what's in my deal. And we just don't trust each other but that's what we should be doing quietly yo. Here's my deal I did an interview where I told people you should get a buy sell. I didn't know what that was But a polo my boy boy polo to don didn't deal with And I did I did at sony and he renegotiated and they gave him a buy sell And only he knew that because his lawyer was peter paterno who represented some of you to all these other big people That was like here's what you need in your deal So now we know to ask for it one last thing I remember when I was doing chopper deal and I'm gonna say it.

43:44Nobody knows it was me We was doing his deal and choppers lawyers a black guy So when he said in the deal, he's like he wants eight million and then he had his legal fees in there and lawyers get paid Five percent of the deal. So he was old four hundred thousand So when he puts in his deal, he puts in a number way less than 400 So think about it. I could have just been like i'm saving the company money. Nah, yo I call a lawyer. Why you don't ask for two for the number you asked for? He said, oh man You think it'll give me 5 % I said they give it to Joe cats Rest in peace Joe cats. I'm gonna give it a Joe cats put it in a deal So he puts it in the back in a deal send the deal over and then head illegal at the company's like man Somebody might have hip them to cuz now the only thing different is the lawyer won his full fee He's like by the way that lawyer is black.

44:28He's like only somebody must have hip them Why didn't you hip him? Right, right, right By the way, that's the only reason why we got the deal because now the lawyer is like wow, right? Thank you for looking out for me. So let me tell you what's going on He wants this if you give this this and this I think we can get it done and that's how we got the deal So it's like but if I didn't be transparent with my brother, we don't get there. We need more of that I wanted to go there because like you said you were able to call polo, right? Yeah Building that soaker little trust is tough. I did the deal right?

44:54I went able to I actually did the deal And then I was leaving to go to Interscope and I was trying to take polo had an artist named Kane Brown Was like one of the biggest country artists in the world and he was going crazy So I'm trying to bring them to Interscope. So Sony is like, no, you over here with us. So Paul was like, no, I can go because I have proof that I sent them. I submitted it when I was working there. So Paul was like, here's my proof. Ray submitted it. Y 'all didn't pass. So they go, well, let's change the deal terms for you to stay here. So I couldn't get mad at that. He gets a buy sell.

45:23Now, if you want it now, so Cash Money has a buy sell. Todd Moskowitz has a buy sell. These are things that if the artists are really yours, like when they send Jemaine to pre-call me, he got mad at me. When they send you home as a CEO, mostly like when they send Puff home, they keep as artists. If you get rid of cash money, Wayne, Drake, everything with them goes with them. That's why you have a buy selling deal. I remember after I put that, just that little clip, like 30 seconds, everywhere I went for like a month, every black executive. Bro, why you doing that, man? Everybody asked for buy sales now.

45:52I'm like, why don't we want us to know? Right. What is the problem? It's almost like it's not for us yet. Let's let them get the most out of it and then we'll give it to you. What's the buy sell though? Buy-sell. Okay, so here's a buy-sell. So a buy-sell means that at some point in time, when a deal expires or we get to a certain point, we're going to value or bring an outside company to give us a valuation of what the company is worth. And at that moment, so say if the company is worth$180 million, at that moment, you can go cut Universal a check for$180 million and now you can take it to Sony like Todd Moskowitz did when he took a little Dirk, Rod Wave.

46:29He took them all to Sony. So Sony probably gave him$300,$400 million. He gave Interscope, Universal, or whatever. He owed them, and he got a whole new deal. So it just means you own it. Most of us don't own nothing in the music business. But if you have a buy-sell, it's yours. They cannot get rid of you. And if they do, they got to pay you. The biggest cash out of history was a guy named Clive Calder who had a deal with BMG. And he did a buy-sell. He had a buy-sell in his deal. and basically they had to give him$2.7 billion. This is the year that NSYNC, Britney Spears, and what's the other group?

47:06Backstreet Boys were all the biggest groups in the world and he went to BMG and was like, nope, and he cashed out. That's what brought BMG down, by the way, just a fun fact, by sale. So that's why they don't like giving it to you because once you apply it, you got to cut me a check or I got to cut you a check. Yeah. Yeah, but it's been in the game forever, but white boys have been doing it forever. It's just we don't know about it. So like deal Ryan Cougar got They all got it We just don't know about it Terrence Lino has it Yeah he does There's plenty of directors Who own the film Even Spike to a certain sense Owns his content But like the fact That you're giving game And not kicking down a ladder Is like you become a guy That people can now call In the VC world Like when you were doing it Who's the person That you're calling Even Math It's like yo We making six figures In the content space Are you calling Other content creators Are you calling dudes That came up Cause they don't Like who are you getting the infinite who's the circle of trust as you're doing it i mean for me it's definitely founders i've met along the way like founders of companies um where we either have like the same investors so like we're like we're portfolio companies so like we share an investor and then other founders i've met just networking like at different events and like that circle of trust because like we all trust trust each other we're going through the same shit like that's how we built this rapport and through that is how we feel comfortable enough sharing like some of these deal terms and then like you know we do like we've been talking because like we want to start making a lot more transparency out there and i even see people on tiktok or like other platforms today like where they are given like real inside um game from inside of a vc so they're letting you know as a vc how we look at the business too so like i think just the the internet cell phones has given a lot more people the ability to share information and so like if you find the right people to follow Like yeah, there's yeah, you can get what you need to do for me.

48:51It was wallow wallow Showed us my studio like three or four months into my pod and was like you gonna blow up I'm like, how do I make money? He's like this this is he showed me his deals He showed me the amazon offers the barstool offers. He was the first person I just met him by the way, like literally what's up man? Nice to meet you Let me show you what's my deals. This is need to look for we need more of that with each other because they're gonna keep as long If we're not together they're going to keep being able to X us out and let who they want in and give them the info as long as they don't tell anybody.

49:20And then they go after you. That's crazy. I actually ran to Wally in Vegas. The same thing. And he was like, yo, I love what y 'all doing. Keep killing it. Keep killing it. And then he looked at it. He's like, yo, this is the deal. Amazon's offering. We're not taking it. Yeah. He's like, nah, we're worth more. I'm like, go get it. And literally, when I called Wally, he's like, Ray, just keep doing this. You got to keep doing it. So it's like, you have those people, but I think in this space we understand it more now that it's matured and you kind of know who the Giants are at EYL I'm trying to get to 100 subs and you got a million already so you know who the Giants are but even me it's like I love it because it's like he's still gonna mess with me I'm still gonna mess with y 'all because we understand what it is it's like we need more of that more fellowship more talking to each other more Ayo this should be in your deal don't let them do that I've done that my whole career because I've always gotten lucky in my deals like I never like I always went into my deals like man i just want a hundred thousand man and then we get a million like how we get that and it's like because it was luck it was like god and god is like hey don't hoard don't hoard the information i give you because i could have gave it to somebody else so that's why i'm big on like just sharing as many if you want it is out there who's in your circle math well i was going math might be a little different though because yeah it's a he all right we picking on that.

50:40Like I said, I put out a lot of those phone calls and it wasn't the same reception. But do you think for you, okay, you're a different persona than Ray, right? You're a nice guy. You're a good guy. But I'm just saying you might be a little bit more threatening. No, I'm not. I'm being honest. He just said he wants us. He would go into projects and fight people. I'm like, what are you doing? But not in that way. in a way that a lot of the other whoever you would call my competitors they took deals early. Contemporaries. Right. Contemporaries. They took deals early. This thing was and still is independent.

51:23Got to a million subscribers without a network. Without, you know what I'm saying? Corporations. Organic. Yeah, a lot of times I felt lonely like, bro, how do you do? Oh, you don't... Oh, I don't know. You gotta figure it out. One person literally told me, I don't know. You gotta figure it out. That's crazy. Wow. That's hate. That's hate. That's crazy. That's crazy. Say hi to him on Friday.

51:55That's crazy. That's the question. So where you going? Now after you said that Now that makes sense Y 'all the same Folks come from the same world It's like It's a little different I ain't gotta do that I'm gonna ask them I'll see them on Friday I'm gonna ask them We would have been happy They shared for me Some people are more A little more open door Than others It's value in opening the doors It's value in being The first person It's value in leading It's value in And I think our people Are just learning that because it hasn't been. We've seen our killers get killed before they get a dollar in their pocket.

52:36And it's like, nah, it's value. And people like Jay, these guys are leading, making all this money. It's value in this. It's just, if you're going to look at them like you're supposed to be my brother, give me the information, you're never going to get it. Well, the thing about it, I think, it's two types of mindsets. It's an abundant mindset and a scarcity mindset. Talk that. Scarcity mindset looks at it like when I climb up the ladder, I'm kicking the ladder down to make sure that nobody else gets up because now I'm in the penthouse by myself and I can just run around. But that's a limited mindset because how much can you really do by yourself?

53:02Exactly. Now, the abundance mindset is, I'm going to get as many people in the penthouse as possible so we can take over the building. That's what people don't understand. It's like you're looking at it from a limited mindset. And you might have been hurt before. You might have tried to help somebody and they screwed you over. I get that part of it. But that's never going to be long-term success. You're actually hurting yourself by not having more. like if there's 37 people that have 100 million dollar contract that's only better for the industry as opposed to one person right right it keeps that industry alive it actually grows that industry we were talking about it even just without barbers that same type of abundance versus scarcity because like there are some barbers out there who don't want to be on a platform like the cut because they don't want their clients to be seen by other barbers so they're more afraid of losing business versus realizing being on a platform like the cut opens you up to the million plus people who are on our platform searching for barbers every day and so just like the difference between like the abundance versus scarcity is huge it's probably the biggest problem in our community abundance versus scarcity mentality like why we don't help each other like but i'll say this most of us that have gotten to a certain table usually we've been made to think once we got to that table you're only here because you're not like them but a lot of people this is another part that's what they tell you a lot of people like especially from the 90s early 2000s they've reached a level of success differently than how we've reached success we've reached success independently through cell phones so our mindset is completely different they've reached success by a corporate executive putting them in position so their level of success is all they know is a white person picked me up and put me in this position and as long as I serve that person.

54:51Right. And the same thing that how they taught them, how they treat them, now they passing that down. And that's their gatekeeper mentality. That's what's happening in the music industry right now. That's why I quit it. Because that's exactly what's happening. It's just, you're not getting picked because you're great. You're getting picked because you're friends with this person and he wants you in position because he feels like you're going to protect him from them. Hasn't it always been like that? Well, it was, but I think once it got bigger and bigger and bigger, it started. The game got bigger and money got bigger, it started becoming like playing keepaways to the point where it's like when they put Elliott Grange in Craig Calman's seat, you got to understand Craig Calman has been at Atlantic longer than Elliott has been alive in the CEO position.

55:35Not like Junior and he got the CEO in the last, he's been the CEO for the last 20, 30 years and you put somebody younger him who doesn't know any of those people. So what you just did, anybody that has those relationships, cut. It was Lucy and Son you're talking about. Yeah, but by the way, Elliott is good at his job is but he's just young and he doesn't care he's from that unk you know that generation like y 'all only gonna know nothing and that we know how that winds are playing out right so it's just that mentality so now he basically brings in his guys who are all younger than him and what happens to all those guys who's been there 20 30 years they going home to figure it out so when you start seeing they sending people home and it's but it's like i'm cool on that man i go home myself bro i that's how i've lived my life just for that reason like i don't play that are there any more stars in music right we have we have a core and we keep seeing them win awards and go on tour but are there new stars right i went to a stadium we went to the country joint it was a stadium tour and i started thinking to myself i'm like how many artists can do that and the reason why they can do that is because they it's like having a big brother in a building like oh we're gonna make this so you know the business is bro it's it's it's it's dirty but it's only dirty because behind closed doors we're treating you like a product but you got a person right so it's like if this mic don't work we like man give me another mic you know but if this mic is human and we throw it away it's like how could you do that to that mic he's been there with you 20 years and it's like you know i mean so i think that's the problem so we do have stars we don't have any superstars and the reason i don't have any superstars because we don't have people the game superstars like what like scissor travis scott superstar a superstar to me is when you hit that space where you you can't go under where you are like Jay-Z call it the white hot space where it's like you trying to be hot I'm trying to hit that white space where I can be this for Drake's a superstar Drake's a superstar Travis Scott's superstar future's a superstar future is he a superstar future's a superstar yes future's a superstar he might he don't have the he doesn't have the present but his music makes me superstar no I think he met Gala Kenny yeah met Gala we see he's a creative director for land bin like he's a superstar when you got big European brands yeah yeah Yeah, yeah.

57:43Yeah, I'm just saying, I'm thinking in terms of, can he do a stadium? No, he can't do a stadium. No, but... But neither could Kendrick. Yeah. But he did. Without Sizzle. Without Sizzle. But he did. Without Sizzle. Without Sizzle. Very important. Yeah, but that's like on the run. Jaycee and Beyonce, same concept. The stadium. Same concept. Jaycee's always done that, though. He partnered with Eminem. He partnered with 50 Cent. Justin Timberlake. He partnered with Beyonce. Yes, he does that. He's smart. Mary J. Blige. Mary J. Blige. He's smart. That was Arenas. the Justin Timberlake one was baseball fields that's still stadium baseball stadium baseball football stadiums basketball is arena and hockey let's have this conversation shall we cause it's barbershop you guys have a freestyle battle competition right so it's about rap people that rap so let's have a few rap conversations Ray are you up for that?

58:37I'm trying to ease into I love this. I'm watching y 'all scores. The first one, you know, shout out to Punch, my guy. Punch. So you guys had an interesting take as far as New York rappers. And it was interesting. And I actually called both of you gentlemen. You did. And you have Jay at number one, okay. But then you had Fabulous and Jadakiss. No, he had Jadakiss at number two and Fabulous at number three. And I agree. and then you agreed and then the four and then four was a debate I think it might have been Nicki Minaj 50 Cent like yeah Nicki Minaj and then you had Nas at the tail end of the situation no he did you didn't even have Nas at all so oh yeah this is Nas thing going on by the way can I be real this is the perfect place to address it because I know how you feel about so it's like let's go this is this is the guy that picks Nelly over Nas no Nelly over Nas He did that on the record?

59:40No, I said Nelly is a better songwriter. That's crazy. How is he a better songwriter? The dude made a song. Like a hit maker. Okay. Oh, because he has number one singles. He sold 10 million albums first time out. So I had to call. I personally called both of these gentlemen because... By the way, it was like 12 o 'clock in the morning. He's not playing. And Jadakiss... I actually know Jadakiss personally. Yep. And Jadakiss, he's from the same area. Hometown hero. He's a legend And Fabulous is one of the dopest rappers of all time Like bar for bar, punchlines Like he's super dope But we gotta stop this disrespect of Nas Please?

1:00:18Yeah, please Like we have to stop the disrespect of Nas I'm gonna say this I told us this is Rashad I'm gonna say this on record Okay, so this is how I look at it So here's why I do this, first of all So I was born in the Bronx I left New York right when I turned 12 So you gotta understand I left New York And it's like Eric B. Rakim Like I'm at the Apollo Tough and Leather Then I go to the South and it's just like a whole new scene and they got they people and they think they people are just as good as New Yorkers but y 'all never heard of them but they heard of y 'all people so it was always like that so my best friend he really and if he was here he would swear to God that Kilo Ali is better than Jay-Z like you can't tell him that you can't tell him the Wu-Tang Clan is better than Ying Yang Twin you can't he's like nigga they got the girl twerking and popping it's like that's what matters to him so that's what really made me so when I So I told Rashad, Nas to me is top five greatest MCs, alive God MC.

1:01:10Like, I have to give him that, right? The same way you would give Avatar one of the greatest movies of all time. But I'd rather watch Juice. So what I was basically saying is I'd rather listen to Fab than listen to— I'd personally rather listen to Fab than Nas. And that's what I meant. But, like, I listen to Nas, but I also—I'll be honest with you. Y 'all, you know this. Y 'all both know. Y 'all two, that side of them, y 'all know.

1:01:34100 guys arguing me about Nas Y 'all know only about 10 of them really know Nas music The other ones are just the 90 that don't want to disappoint y 'all

1:01:46Period because what I'm saying is that you don't understand Like Jay-Z said just because a nigga wear a koofy don't mean that he nice

1:01:56You got to understand something I got cousins in the Bronx right now In Harlem right now That I swear to God Y 'all I'll sit on the corner with them And three minutes I'm talking I'm like What the fuck are you talking about? And he's like Yo B You know cause the mathematics And this You know I'm like What are you talking about bro? I don't like where this is going right? No I don't like where this is going I don't like where this is going You know the political prisoners In the mathematics What are you talking about? I don't like where this is going Nah nah nah Nah How was this according to Nasir Jones though?

1:02:29My point is that He's saying it stars in Quasar Listen I am Illmatic I know him but word for word I am Illmatic with all those albums But I'm saying after a while it got to the point Where it was like you still going deeper into that Like it's You gotta be ready to listen And I'm not dissing him Okay let me tell you what I'm saying So you didn't listen to the kids You don't want to watch Listen, I want to Okay, at night Every night I go to sleep I got to go to sleep to a movie I have to But like I can't go to sleep to Malcolm X I'll go to sleep I don't want that in my subconscious When I'm sleeping, guys Hold on Wait a minute You know what the problem is I watch it, but I don't want to go to sleep So what do you think about 3000?

1:03:18Andre? Yeah He's incredible He's incredible, right? You're not going to sleep to Love Below. He got a flu. He played a flu. He got a whole album playing the flu. Let me tell you something. If you are from Atlanta, if you are from Atlanta, you know Andre 3000. We all went to high school with them. Those are real Atlanta niggas. This new Atlanta is not. Andre is real Atlanta. He from the Southwest. It's just different. But your point is, Andre is ill. But I understand if he's in my top, but I understand if he's not in yours. If you say Andre, If y 'all told me Wu-Tang is better than Outkast As crazy as that sounds to me I could respect it Because I'm like Y 'all was on the block When Wu-Tang was out Like I got cousin That was on the block That sounds crazy to you?

1:04:03To me That what? Wu-Tang is better than Outkast To me Outkast is the only group In history that Every album went Bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger To the last one They won 10 million And then they win Album of the year So it's numbers No You can't buy a Grammy baby You can't buy that That's your peers What was the last album? It was the movie joint. Speaking about Love Below. No, that, well. Speaking about Love Below. No, no, no. Don't ruffle that. Don't ruffle it. It was the movie joint. The Alumnesia. What was the name of the movie? I forgot. Idlewild. Idlewild. Stop it. Bigger, bigger. Stop. Stop.

1:04:39Hold on, hold on. What'd you say? Wu Tang has never had a movie. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying they did. I hate that I got to do this because I love Method Man. I love, I respect and love Wu. I just was in the South. So you got to understand, I'm coming to New York when I'm 14 and my cousin's playing me Biggie and tell me his new kid named Biggie and I'm going to the South and they playing around. It's like it was just different. In the South, they had the girls. I'm not mad at the Outkast thing because they got a classic album. Like nobody, nobody's on the block. I don't want my girl wearing Timberlands on the block.

1:05:09No woman in New York. I don't want my girl on the block wearing Timberlands. Somebody, yo, did you hear her? Did you hear what that nigga said last night in that verse? Why did you hear it, baby girl? When did Atlanta, take over. Hey, stop. Hold on, hold on. Where we going? Hold on, hold on, hold on. Hold on, hold on. Wait, the Nas thing, can we just stop the slander? First of all, I want to say something. Can we agree to that? I want to say this. Let me tell you where the slander Nas started. As a guy on my show named Jack Dans, who's from Queens, he calls himself the Queensiest nigga in history.

1:05:40Isn't that right or wrong? Does he not do that to everybody in the room? So Jack is arguing with me about Nas. I'm like, you crazy Nas versus Andre 3000? What are you talking about? So I can spit it. any Andre verse. Yeah. But a Nas verse. And you're like, ha, ha. You asked the wrong person. But now if I'm money comes to Shots, it's like, ask me. So then I would be on there and I'll tell everybody, like, I know, you named your son after Nas, but I'm not mistaken. So I know you know a Nas verse. But like, I'll challenge somebody like O.B. I'm like, give me a Nas verse. I'm not the one. See? I see you in Nas.

1:06:09I see you in Nas. I'm not the one. I'm not the one. I'm just not giving anybody's verses. I'm just the same person. How you feel Growing up in New York City, you know, in the 90s. Oh, man. Okay. It was written. Illmatic. Still Maddox. One of the greatest. First of all, I'm one of the few people that believe It Was Written was his best album. That's me. Really? That's me. I agree with that. It was written, too. I Am, and it was written. No. No. No. It was written. I'm going to tell you something real quick. I Am is someplace. Not I Am. Not I Am. So, we had this conversation. One of the best hip-hop nights of my life.

1:06:43Let's hear it. Me and Shadi are having dinner with Nas. And I'm telling him, yo, it was written as a great album. Hillmatic is the greatest hip-hop album of all time. And I was like, what you think? We asking him. He's like, you know, it's like, I mean, it's like kids. Subjective. So we went on it for about three hours. We have a red wine. We go in. I'm telling him how that album changed my life. I love it. He was the first person I wanted to be. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's different. It wasn't like, I want to be Jordan. I want it to be Nas, right? And then about two months later, we see him again at dinner.

1:07:19The same day we see him, I think Rolling Stone puts out the best hip-hop albums of all time. What's number one? Illmatic. Illmatic. You know what I said? He was like, yo, you got it, Troy. Illmatic is a safe bet. That's 90%. I've seen Fat Jerry. Illmatic is a safe bet, but it was written as a cultural favorite. I want to talk to the mayor I'm just making sure I'm confusing the albums I'm being honest I gave you power I fly rule the world It was like a brand new martial arts style It was written The mastery of it The fly That's when Big was like Took home ready to die Study shit Now you want some money Now you're on some money shoot, right?

1:08:12Because it was written. It was flying. I was flying the suits and all of that. It was elevation. Illmatic was grimy in the lobby with the RV jacks. But let's also be clear. Illmatic was for men, niggas on the block, and queens, and crunk. No, we all. We all. I'm saying. I don't want to say niggas, you know what I'm saying? But I'm on a black. I'm trying to be a little fan word. But men didn't sound right. So I got to say niggas. But it was for niggas that was on a block that was trying to get educated. K-Dot. You know, I know them dudes. I was in Illmatic. Nobody in him was. Here's the best way to describe Illmatic.

1:08:47Illmatic is a portrait of New York City in the early 90s. Exactly. And I wasn't there. I left in 91. So it's like... It was Straphole Quest when you left. So let's do this before we leave. Showbiz AG is from my neighborhood. They from my building. So I remember Showbiz and AG drop. So, you know, you got Dots of Fade, all this stuff, but I'm saying it was... I was still young in it. I didn't get into hip hop until I was like really into it until I was like 14 and when OutKast dropped that shit changed my life it was like I pissed him off I told him I think Soulful Goody Mob album it made a more bigger impact on my life than Illmatic me personally you was wearing turpees Goody Mob and Goody Mob was talking about FBI surveillance and all of that but it was slower they was like the original Illuminati dudes yes they was they was the original Illuminati no see I can see alright let's do this I might have been a follower.

1:09:41It's just wordy. By the way, I'm in the music business. I make my money from words. Let's do this. Let's do this. Balance the scales. We talked about New York. Let's talk about Atlanta. Please. Who's your only amount of rushmore of Atlanta? Outkast. That's two people. Outkast as a group? That's two people. That's two people. That's one spot or two people? Outkast as a group. No, no. One person. It got to be one person. Oh, well, Andre and Big Boy deserve to be half of it. That's two spots. And then I'm going to give it to T.I. I think T.I. is the most important rapper in Atlanta history. I agree.

1:10:15Tip is the most important rapper in Atlanta history. And then I'm going to give the fourth one to Future. So why are we disrespecting Jeezy? Have we forgotten that he had the biggest in the finish? You good.

1:10:31If I didn't have Outkast as two, it would have been between Jeezy and Chris. Because I see a lot of people forget I see a lot of people forget Jeezy. Like they talk about Gucci. Look I like Gucci. Gucci didn't have no relevance in up here. When I was in school in Baltimore, when Trap 101 came out. Yes. Yo. T.I. does not have an album better than Thumb Motivation 101. Look, this is a real story. T.I. does not have an album better. When Trap, when Thought Motivation 101 came out that night, I listened to it with my man in his car. And by the end of the night, I was in a crack spot. I fucking did it.

1:11:19Okay. That's serious. Coincidentally. That's serious. Okay, so let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. like you know like you know in new york like like you know in new york like certain guys here like matter to y 'all like you know in new york like certain guys matter here like it's like math has a reputation where it's like you go he go like he just said i'm i'll walk in the middle of your projects and call you outside and fight you for that like nigga what are you talking about like you get killed that's how he moves right so new york has different ways of moving and atlanta is different most people jeezy is atlanta but he you got to understand like i was just at a me and Shaka Zulu, shout out to Shaka.

1:11:57He calls me like, yo, Ray, come roll me to this little thing I'm doing. I go in there, see Tip. Tip is the city. He cares about the city. Jeezy moved away for a little while and then he came back, but Jeezy is more like... He's not entrenched in Atlanta. Jeezy is more like... He is, but from like a I'mma go... Meet me over here, smoke a cigar on me. Tip, it's like... Somebody's trying to kill himself in Bankhead. Tip is like, I'm on the way. You know what they told us? Because I'm like, yo, all these... Even 21 Savage, when he was talking, after that versus battle, 21 Savage was on Clubhouse. We ain't listen to Jeezy, we listen to Gucci.

1:12:32Gucci is the dude. You gotta understand, when Jeezy was at his peak, he ain't do songs with... Gucci did the exact opposite. Gucci did song with Migos. They did song with the young 21. So they have a reverence for him because he extended himself where Jeezy was more close. He did songs with his crew, but that crew didn't really go anywhere. So it's like the reverence for him in Atlanta is going to be different because he didn't put his arms around the whole entire city. I think he's on the Rushmore. Yeah, who Jeezy? Well, if Outkast could be one, I think about him, but you got to look at it. I think Outkast ran the 90s, Tip ran the 2000s up until, and then Future took over around 2012 and has been running.

1:13:16So to me, it's like those three... No, they both was running it. Jeezy was... Because Jeezy's in that 2000s. No, no, no. Listen. Okay, okay. I understand what y 'all saying, but y 'all looking at Atlanta. I'm talking about Atlanta. I'm talking about in the city. You got to understand something. Dog, y 'all got to understand something. Tips crew, Doug, Clay who passed away. Like, his crew, that's our city. Like, you ain't going to go nowhere and see somebody from Tips crew. You're not going to see nobody with GZ nowhere. It's almost like how they talk about how Master P and Birdman was in New Orleans.

1:13:46Like, Master P was like the outside guy that was putting New Orleans on the map, but he was messing with West Coast people when Baby was the homegrown. Tip is the homegrown Atlantan. Jeezy was from Macon. He came to Atlanta. We embraced him because Atlanta's like that. And then, but he left. When he got started popping, he moved him. I don't even know if he live in Atlanta now. It's like if you would say Dipset versus French Montana. Yeah. Like French Montana, so Larkins and all. Way bigger. He's in LA. He's not like, you're going to see Jim Jones at one point in time. Like Chili. Yeah. And that's what makes you love him more.

1:14:19So that's why I would say T.I. Because T.I.'s the most important artist. But I think the best musical artist from Atlanta outside of Outkast is Future now. I think he passed it. What about Lil Baby? It's too early. And I would say, so this is how I look at it. As big as Thug is, as far as Thug is, I still will put Thug as 1B under Future's 1A for their generation. Because remember, I was Future's A &R at a point where he was trying to sign Thug. So I remember I got hit with a cease and desist from Warner. like y 'all can't so Future was on before Thug that's why I gotta give him that cause he kinda paved the way yeah he paved the way but Thug influence is crazy but Future to me musically passed him passed Tip to me I think it's cause it's catalog it's just it hasn't stopped like most artists is this most artists is really this his has been kinda this so he's gotten bigger every year compared to like you know Tip and he puts out music all the time and that's another thing is like that's why I had to give him to him musically cause Tip to me his music's an age as gracefully as i as jesus did to me but like like i'm a music guy like i loved and i'm always like in the studio like what you want to make like who would you remake who sound jesus sound is more today but tip is just the guy like too important nigga the crips the bloods if you a street nigga if you anything in atlanta if you a governor if you anything you probably know tip i got his number he's that much to the city and that's why we love him solid solid both of them solid both of them but he just he can't like it's a kid like the mayor i remember when the pandemic happened and they was doing the riots when a little girl got killed at that Wendy's, the mayor went on TV and said, Tip, Killer Mike, get down here.

1:15:54It's like those are our guys. So Tip is that and he's Killer Mike's size. So that's why I got to give it to him. And Killer Mike don't get enough credit. I'm going to say that every chance I get. He's one of the greatest to ever do it, but we don't give him credit because it came later in life. He was on the Outer Wild soundtrack. But it came later in life. It did come later in life. That's how he started. By the way, we can argue all day. I told y 'all, I wasn't masturbating with y 'all. Me and Punch want to argue with y 'all. We got to do that. We got to set that up. Because Punch is like, Punch is like, because I understand what y 'all saying, but I think, that's the thing about hip hop.

1:16:24We don't allow hip hop to be, it's almost like it's New York's. It's ours. No, no, no. Hit me out. Hit me out. Hit me out. No, hit me out real quick. Let me tell you what I mean. What I mean by that is like, like y 'all remember, I'm doing a podcast in the South. Every time I speak on East Coast hip hop, shit your country. Y 'all gonna read the comment. your country ass up. You know, it's like, damn, nigga, I don't have an opinion on it. I say, he's what? Atlanta's been in privacy for 20 years. Of culture, but y 'all own the conversation. Atlanta has the culture. New York holds the conversation.

1:16:58Whatever New York say is what's going on. It matters. If we say something in Atlanta, it don't matter. All right. So would you allow, like, somebody that runs, like, a dojo in Atlanta to tell, like, a shot? What's a dojo? A dojo. Parate? Okay. Would you allow somebody that has a dojo in Atlanta To tell a Shaolin monk You ain't kicking right He just called Atlanta niggas Shaolin monks That's a crazy song He just called us Shaolin monks That's what I'm saying, I get it I get it I'm not mad at it, but you can't get mad when Atlanta Starts talking and feeling like they that Shout out to Atlanta That's 2025 Atlanta Like a Japanese was a Chinese like samurai ninja.

1:17:44That would be more. What do you think about the winner's competition? Right. Right. Yeah. Cash flow. Oh, that's crazy. Right. I want. Cash flow is the favorite? Yo, he shut it down with one rhyme. He from New York. He's probably the barbershop giant. Nigga, listen. I expect it. Cash flow and struggle. I'm asking. I'm asking. Listen, I didn't expect nobody from Atlanta to come in there with no bars. I'm going to lie to you. I didn't expect nobody from Atlanta to come in there with no bars. Oh, that's crazy. I expect them to come with some flow. Here's the beauty of what you guys are doing, right?

1:18:09Okay. Because yes, there is one winner, but technically everybody that's on is a winner, right? Because they're getting the platform to showcase their talent. Yeah, it's about the platform. It's about showcasing yourself. That's what I want artists to understand. It's not always about being the full package. Sometimes it's about just saying, here's a little bit of what I do, what you think. That's how I started. My first six months of putting up content was on a cell phone. And everywhere I went, people was like, y 'all, I love your podcast. I'm like, I don't even have a podcast. I'm just putting content.

1:18:38I wasn't even putting it on YouTube. It was just on Instagram. So, you know, you just got to start where you are. That's why I was doing it. Like, just go in there and just rap. If you can rap, you don't need no beat. Just rap. Give the audience a chance. And I hope somebody from this gets signed. I'm going to make that happen. When is the visuals of what you're doing? Are you going to put this together for one full-length situation? So, on our IG right now, at the Cut app, you can go and find, like, the competitors for every city. And then we have another IG, OffTheTop.Freestyle, specifically for this competition.

1:19:06and that's where we're about to flood all the competition all the competition's content so you can see it and honestly like I said there's some incredible artists here, somebody's gotta get signed like this is one kid's logo, I swear bro if I was in it, I'd sign him right now if I was in it, like right now, that kid is incredible that don't surprise us I want y 'all to understand, but guess what, I'm gonna make the music that's what I do we'll call Nelly and see if he can write it for us I hope he can. I hope he can. Nelly is fire. Shout out to Nelly. He sold 10 million records from St. Louis.

1:19:42Country grandma at Nellyville. And he got a bunch of number one singles. Two diamond albums. That's right. Not many people can do that. That's hard with no cosign. In my world, that's Nas type level. Hold on. That's Nas type level. Let me say something. I got to stop. No, no. If Nelly was from Westchester, if Nelly was from Yonkers, if he was anything in New York, Nelly would be considered one of the greats of all time. And he deserves it. Only you do with units and pimp juice and us. That's the best he got. Jake, by the way, shout out to Hogan for Giving the Tour. He's a legend as far as his stats.

1:20:12Selling a bunch of records doesn't always equate to being respected as the best rapper. I want you to stand on that a little bit. I mean, that's... I want him to stand on it. You're right, but I would love for you to hear your reasoning. Can I, can I, can I tell you? Oh, that... I'm not ex-permitting. Yo, where you at? Pump up my camera. Punch, I need you here. How many records did Ice Ice Baby sell? Ice Ice Baby sold to white white babies. Right. You can't win with me. Ice Baby sold to white white babies. He wasn't like third base. Shout out to MC Search. He wasn't like third base. He was on the block.

1:20:53Yeah, but so Two Legit Quits sold a lot of records. And then guess what? As soon as he started, he was off to the races. Just go over there. You watch the movie. When you see the movie, you see when he's performing too legit, the audience. He was performing with white people too. Right. So sometimes it's not that. And Nelly wasn't. That's a great, that was a, see? There it is. I don't give you props. There it is. I'm like a nigga that can argue. That was good. That was good. But, you know, Nelly had to, Nelly still came from St. Louis when nobody cared about him. So he had to do a lot more than just make a good song.

1:21:28He had to prove he deserved to be here. and he's one of the best songwriters artists in the world. He lived in Harlem for a couple of years. Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. Out of the way, I lived in the Bronx for a couple of years. Listen, if anybody watching this, everybody should live in New York. Everybody should live in New York for one or two years because it's going to make your ass harder than you ever been. They ain't going to say hello to you. They don't care if you're getting robbed on a train. It's not my business. It's not my business. It's not my business. Yo, watch that. It's over there.

1:21:53It's not your business, lady. You're getting domestic violence. you're gonna be next you're gonna be next it's gonna toughen you so New York is good for that but you know gentlemen this has been a very fun conversation fun absolutely let them know where they can find the information in regards to watching the content and then each individual all of y 'all socials what y 'all got going on so they can tap it like I said you can go find all the content at the cut app on IG TikTok all platforms the freestyle competition itself is off the top dot freestyles and yeah we're gonna post all that stuff like this friday so yeah please come watch it like i said sluggo deja quiche i mean we got some really fire uh content in there absolutely absolutely and then the individual info for everything oh yeah follow me at uh mr underscore obi-wan obi-wan you know all platforms you can tell he's smart i'm just ray daniels everywhere just sir i'm listening to talking i'm like i know your shit i'm still like which is That's not Obi-Wan.

1:22:53That's what it's spelled. Obi-Wan. That's hard. That's what it's spelled. I didn't know what it meant. I thought it was like a... Your whole name spelled out. Obi-Wan Kenobi, I mean. Oh, Star Wars. They have to take it. Hard. Fire. And, Mav, where can we watch... We can watch episodes now, right? Yes. Even though you're not in the shop currently, we still can watch. Yes, you can still watch episodes. You just re-interviewed BG. Yes. And that did pretty good. That did pretty good. But I'm eager to get back in the shop. I love the shop. We need MEO back. Yes. Definitely. I'll get you back. I need the other opinions in the room.

1:23:26Bring MEO back. Get it. All right, guys. Thank you for rocking. We'll see you next week. Thank you. Peace. An illegal alien from Guatemala charged with raping a child in Massachusetts. An MS-13 gang member from El Salvador accused of murdering a Texas man. A Venezuelan charged with filming and selling child pornography in Michigan. These are just some of the heinous migrant criminals caught because of President Donald J. Trump's leadership. I'm Kristi Noem, the United States Secretary of Homeland Security. Under President Trump, attempted illegal border crossings are at the lowest levels ever recorded.

1:24:05And over 100 ,000 illegal aliens have been arrested. If you are here illegally, you're next. You will be fined nearly$1 ,000 a day, imprisoned and deported. You will never return. But if you register using our CBP Home app and leave now, you could be allowed to return legally. Do what's right. Leave now. Under President Trump, America's laws, border, and families will be protected. Sponsored by the United States Department of Homeland Security. Hey, it's Joel. And Matt from HowToMoney. If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back. Prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place.

1:24:45but 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right. Each week we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

1:25:17Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, a.k.a. neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:26:09Our two-part conversation is available now. Listen to The Mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.