Untold Story of Curl Fest: Black Women Plan to Bounce Back After Shutdown | DEI, Hurdles & Funding

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3:22All right, guys. Welcome back. Special episode of Earn Your Leisure. It's a fact. Yes. We have two of the co-founders of Curly Girl Collective and Curl Fest, Melody and Simone. And Simone, somebody that's been on the show early. Early, like episode maybe 15? Yeah. I got the number right? I think so. I'm not sure the number, but it was early. Yeah, shout out to the hometown. So first and foremost, thank you guys for joining us. Thank you for having us. So, okay. So for people that might not be familiar, right, before we get into it, can you talk about what Curl Girl Collective is and Curl Fest and how it came about, like how it hit origin story?

4:01Yeah. Okay. So Curly Girl Collective is an organization that we founded and created with our business partners. And what we're most notably known for is Curl Fest, which is one of the largest natural beauty festivals. And essentially, we created a space for a population that literally had no exposure to. And really, it's an opportunity to be educated, celebrated, provide resources for women with natural hair. So this is on the last year celebrated year 10. Year 10. Which is a huge accomplishment. Congratulations to that. it would start out with five women how how what is the situation now i know you two are here and and there are other partners what do we look like now present day yeah sure so there are there will always be five founders uh five beautiful black women um right now we have three operating members melody myself simone and sharice who couldn't be with us today got you got you so okay so you started it and it got really big i went i think like three years ago in randall's island yes right so tens of thousands of people there a bunch of sponsors and then the pandemic hits so you have to kind of put things on a hold for that because you can't do events in new york especially at that time during the pandemic and a lot of stuff happened so now we're in 2025 you'd made a decision to postpone it this year and reconvene next year, right?

5:42So what happened in that timeline and what was the decision to actually, you know, put it on ice for this year and look at 2026? Yeah. So a couple of things happened in the timeline. I think since COVID, the events business and industry has been quite difficult. It has changed. And never fully recovered. Never fully recovered. And it's becoming increasingly more difficult. And this specific year, I think with the political climate, with the rollbacks on D &I, the economy, all these things make the perfect storm. while it's becoming almost impossible to have events kind of that scale without certain levels of like sponsorship backing.

6:28And so when we saw a lot of our big ticket sponsors saying, you know, we're not moving in that direction and being very black and white about not having a budget for events that look like ours, we had to make a decision that we have to shift, take a pause and shift to see what Curlfest could look like maybe without that level of sponsorship backing, really pull the veneer away and talk to our audience about support and what it looks like with entrepreneurship, because there's a narrative out there that is like super easy. And we have this like big, big company and we're, you know, doing this with our eyes closed and we're all like super wealthy and rich.

7:10But we have still been a passion project even for 10 years later. and so this specific year we decided to it was important for us to kind of just take a pause take a beat and re-strategize a bit yeah it's important that it's a reschedule right so it's definitely gonna be back in 2026 but most people don't understand the business of live events and I was telling you I was telling you I said Mel because we friends now um that you know when you get into this space it looks it looks great on day of yes but it's a full year process to get to show day. Sponsorships is one way that you get money, obviously selling tickets to the event.

7:50Break down the business of how it looked for you from year one when it was sitting in the living room to leading up to COVID. I think we did in 2019. I think right before. Yeah, that was a massive one. It was in New York Times and I was like so proud. I'm like, I know it. She's from high school. So talk about the business structure and how it's changed. Obviously, pre-COVID, post-COVID. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think pre-COVID, post-COVID is literally a thing, right? And it's like, I think, especially anyone from an entrepreneur standpoint or business standpoint could understand sort of the magnitude of what that created for us.

8:29I think when we think about our scale, our scale is the biggest thing. Like I think our first one maybe we had like, we had two sponsors on the lawn. A thousand people. We had a thousand people maybe, mostly, you know, friends and friends. And then, you know, you scale to let's say 2019 where there's over 40, you know, sponsors on the lawn. There's activations. There's people flying in from Ghana, from South Africa, everywhere. And I think what we noticed was that it scaled quickly. And so when you have something and you build the infrastructure, you almost need to have that foresight of like, how far can it go?

9:09And it wasn't something that we could have ever imagined that it got to that. So we had to adapt as it scaled and figure out, are there different ways to work? When it came to the pandemic, I mean, we were the largest natural beauty festival in the world, right? And you're like, okay, wait, the whole thing is about being in person and connecting in person. What does that look like when we can't do that on a global scale? Like the world is shut down. That year, we actually did a virtual Curl Fest, which was a success. That's Erica Badu came. And so it taught us, what it taught us and validated was that what we were doing was still needed, right?

9:50Even in the midst of not being able to have it. But when you break it down in terms of like, what does that mean to produce a live event? Skyrocket, cost skyrocket, everything from porta-potties to vendors, all the behind the scenes stuff, right? That doesn't look like, okay, day of, beautiful sunshine, beautiful people. But there's a lot of a lot of actual work logistics that go into PACE and everything is a dotted line to finances. Yeah. And as we've gotten bigger, there's been more and more expenses that we never thought. Right. Yeah. Increased insurance, all sorts of things that pop up as line items that never existed before when we were a couple thousand strong.

10:33So as the expenses continue to increase the line item for those expenses, also there's inflation in those things, too. But the income doesn't necessarily inflate at the same level. Yes. You know, sometimes we have this like, you know, dichotomy where we have to decide and make a decision what things need to be cut, what needs to be kept, how do we keep people safe, etc. Those are the tough decisions. And y 'all are five. This is pre-COVID. This is five working women. And this is not your was this full time or did this ever become full time? No, a lot of people think it's full time for us, but no.

11:09And entrepreneurship looks different for everyone. Yeah. But yeah, it was we were still working women with, you know, seasoned careers. Yes. Also doing this on the side. So it was, you know, working nine to five in your day job. and then, you know, the 6 to 4 in the morning the next day, right? Especially in Curlfest season. Especially in Curlfest season. Yeah. Yeah. So talk about the DEI cutbacks. Like, when did that hit? Like, walk us through that whole thing. Because a lot of people, when they heard about it, they couldn't relate to it. So that was a narrative that was pushed a lot, where it was like, this isn't something that even affects Black people because we never benefited from DEI.

11:53people. Only people that benefited from D.I. was like white women. That's popular on the internet. So you guys actually has been affected by it. So can you like walk us through that? Yeah, that's a good point. I think it affects people in different ways. Our direct impact would be kind of sponsorship impact. And we saw it before a little bit trickling in before kind of this widespread rollback. We saw shifts in like, oh, we don't have budgets for you guys this year. Um, or, you know, our budgets are tight, you know, what can you do for$10? Right. So I mean, some ridiculous conversations we have to have, right.

12:33Like all the time we're justifying our worthiness all the time, but it's been like a little bit egregious sometime this year, this year and last year about like what, what they are offering or not offering anymore. And then this year was a complete, we were just not moving in that direction at all. We don't have a D &I budget. We don't have a budget any longer for multicultural events. It just no longer exists. And they've been pretty black and white about it. And we've seen it quietly happening to a lot of our fellow kind of event producers, but nobody's really talking about it. So that's why we thought it was important for us to kind of have this conversation because a lot of people are suffering in silence and no one is talking about it.

13:18So for us our direct impact was just sponsorship um and sponsorship for us is more than just money that also is our as a part of the activations that are part of curl fest right and so folks come to the event to experience these activations um you know like the big box brands like the targets etc will come and build out these beautiful spaces for our guests to interact with provide input um all of these things and even and and i'll also add it's not just like folks who are also rolling back with de and i there are also other smaller brands that are affected by just the economy in general and are unable to you know the maybe the mom and pop beauty brands that are also unable to to uh participate in curlfest because they just don't have the funds for the funds and they're also not being funded by other partners that they've had in the past like the targets etc you're in a unique space um and it's interesting because when we talk about who is a prime target and we've seen this in the uae uh for consumers and people of wealth and it's black women yeah and when you go to girl fest i mean it is sea of black women and so you said you had to explain to your audience what support looks like can elaborate on that are you are you talking from a standpoint of like hey it's not just come to the event it might be hey we need to have community initiative what does that look like what did you have to explain to the audience yeah i mean i think it's layered right so first first i want to say we have gotten to where we've gotten because our community and so the at the onset when we created this it was all in service of our community what do we need and the good part about is we look like our community.

15:08We're literally a reflection of what we've built, right? And so when we talk about what we might need from our community, I think, you know, people probably aren't really thinking about it. Like they're thinking, oh, tickets out, I'll get a ticket, come to the event. But support looks like, you know, bringing us up in rooms that we're not in. Support looks like maybe just taking a little beat to understand what it takes from a financial standpoint to put on something at the magnitude that we're putting it on. Right. And so support looks like sponsorship, you know, support looks like understanding, right.

15:49Giving grace when we have to make a very difficult decision to, you know, have to postpone. And so I think, I think if we, if we got granular support is a ticket, literally is purchasing a ticket. If you can't come, maybe purchasing a ticket for a friend or bringing a school, you know, and it's only a fraction of it, but it actually is like, it's really important for us to continue to support by us for us. And so, you know, with the rollbacks with DEI, yes, a lot of large corporations are not able to fund things that we've been doing however what does it look like if we just funded it ourselves as a community right and so we know we've been validated by our community that what we've created is like magic and it just feels good and it feels good but it's also education right we're very very mindful of the thumbprint that we're putting on for you know the next generation right the little girl who will wear her hair natural because now she sees that and so how do we keep that going so what's the pathway forward because okay in the climate Donald Trump's still president for the next three years right so the DEI thing probably is not going to get any better no and it's also a recession so spending habits is actually decreasing as well right like that's having an effect on events across the board also.

17:30So from consumers spending less money and corporations spending less money, how do you see a pathway forward to actually ramp back up? Yeah. So, I mean, we're working through what that looks like. I think it's just setting expectations that CurlFest may look a little different in the years. I think a big thing that Melody mentioned was having grace. And part of these conversations is to kind of humanize what it looks like to be an entrepreneur and it's not this big corporation. These are three black women who are trying and, you know, carrying this business on our backs because it's bigger than us.

18:04And so when CurlFest does look different, right? And the reasons why, let's have these conversations now proactively about why it's looking different. It may not have, you know, 35 sponsors on the lawn. We may have three, right? But what we do have and we'll always have is community, which was the heart of the event anyways. And, you know, we'll just build it back. I think we've got through we've got through COVID. We've got through a pandemic. Right. Yeah. All of these things and the economy, inflation, all of these things. And we'll get through this, too. It's just, you know, being for us, I think for the last several years, we've gone through so many hurdles that we haven't talked about.

18:44Everything. Yeah. Everything that we could happened has happened but we've always kind of take the stance like let's have like this very polished message PR message to the audience and a little bit like ambiguous about what's happening but I think we wanted to take a shift away from that this year and be a little bit more transparent about the process and the struggles and where we need support because it's not a victim story it's really just like this is what it is this is the reality and we know everyone also has their own reality because if you have to decide between a curl fest taking and buying eggs obviously you buy the eggs right but we're not asking folks to do that but support could look like a different a number of different things if it's not a ticket it's a like on a post because also the algorithm has changed from a few years ago too back from when we used to launch the event and used to sell out 30 000 tickets in in two days now it's a post could be out for a month and no one sees it And so resharing, you know, using, you know, the different ways to have organic reach is also a way to support us as well.

19:52Was there anything that surprised you? I mean, you're very much grounded in reality, but you've had, I don't want to call them sponsors at this level, right? Because somebody's with you for more than five years. This is a partnership. Partnership. So like, were there partners who you were with and you come to, you know, the past couple of years and they're no longer there? Was there a surprising factor or are you just like, this is somehow, sometimes out of the cookie crumbles a little bit? Some of you were surprised. Some of you were very surprised. Some of you were very surprised. Yeah. Folks who have been with us since the beginning.

20:21Day one. And said all of a sudden they can't work with us. And sometimes it's not their decision. We also saw a lot of businesses get acquired in the last several years. And that's just the nature of the way you do business sometimes, too. Nobody talks about exit strategies. And the goal is sometimes to get acquired. And maybe if that does happen, you may not have the say to say, I really want to do CurlFest this year. You may not have that level of power anymore. So we've seen that happen with a number of beauty brands in the past that have been with us since day one. The other part of it, it was like a second part of the question is that from a competitive landscape, obviously Curl Fest was for me the first and the biggest.

21:10And I'm still going to look at it that way. But from a competitive landscape, as you start seeing people pop up with beauty festivals and beauty conferences and they don't look like you. Tell me the realities that you face when you see things like that happen. Yeah. I mean, it's just the reality, right? If you've built something at some point, at some turning point, there will be something that perhaps maybe mirrors it or it touches it. I think one of the things that has also been interesting for us is, you know, we talk about obviously our women are our number one supporter, but the men are there too.

21:47And so we've had events where we've had activation specifically for men for hair and beards and things of that nature. We also have an empowerment stage, right? And there we talk about very real aspects of our community. That isn't necessarily centered on here, but is it about, you know, empowerment? Is it about self-image? Is it about, you know, mental capacity? And so I say that to say that when you look at the aperture of who our audience is, it actually is larger than just the Black female with natural hair. And because of that, that means there's competitive when sponsors, depending on who they are, if it isn't just a black hair brand, there's choices for them to where they spend their money.

22:34Right. And so I think one of the challenges that we've had over the years, because we were fortunate enough to be trailblazers in this space, is, you know, brands are now seeing the importance of the black female, the importance of the billions of dollars of money that is spent on hair care. So they'll maybe have a little portion of their regular event in a pop up of a hair moment there. And I think everything can still coexist. I think what makes CurlFest different is literally the community. I think it's our community. I think it's the need, the voids that we're filling that at scale, I feel like some of the other places or touch points that hair brands may show up.

23:21It's not, it doesn't feel quite the same as when you support CurlFest. Yeah. And I think we get that question a lot. You know, what's your differentiating factor? Somebody else could come up with a festival that looks. And we've had a number of, you know, cease and desist going on last several years. Yeah. Folks are coming out with the exact name. Right. Curl Fest, Guyana, Curl Fest. Right. All over. Right. Logos, everything. So that's another conversation. But I think it's, you know, our authenticity is part of our differentiating factor. And there's no one that can kind of recreate that. And there's something special about the fact that this this is for a majority.

23:59Our demo is black women and it is created and founded and run by black women. I think that's also something that sets us apart. But it's a it's a challenge. I'll be lying if I say it wasn't a challenge that when somebody does come up with an event and we're like, wait, this looks like Curl Fest, you know, and then we question, like, are we doing the right thing? Do we need to add something different? You know, will our fans know the difference and all of these things? And we have these conversations all the time. but there's also something you know that you i think there's there's uh there's a level of like um uh i was there was a level of comfort in knowing that what you created was created by us and no one else can recreate that magic something that's maybe not even tangible um just like no one could create another invest fest it would never be another troy Look in the camera.

24:55Create another investment. Right. Like they could try, but it'll never be the same. So I'm with you on that. Yeah. So what's the state of black women's hair? Like as far as when we first talked, I mean, obviously there was a lot of attention. I think Chris Rock did that documentary. Yeah. You know, billions of dollars. is it the same level of enthusiasm in regards to the business of the hair or has that kind of died down a little bit? Yeah, so the business of hair, I wouldn't say it has died down. There's ebbs and flows about like the natural hair movement when it has, you know, just caught on.

25:34And I think we're a little bit spoiled being in New York, you know, it's just kind of the norm now, you know, and everybody is so fluid. It is not the norm, though, around the world either. There's still conversations. There's still conversations being had in boardrooms and corporate, you know, walls as well about hair and what is deemed kept and unkempt. And so there's still work to be had. I think the business of hair care in general hasn't died down at all. It's actually increased. Right. I think I think this last that I read was like black women spend nine times more than any ethnic group in beauty and personal care.

26:10and is just continuing to move in that direction. What that looks like with beauty, whether you're wearing curls or 20-inch bust down, it really doesn't matter. Like a Black woman, I think hair is an identifying factor for Black women much more than just aesthetics. It represents who you are. It represents where you come from. It represents my mother and my mother's mother, you know, and stories and creativity and growing up. And I remember this, you know, there's a nostalgia with, you know, your hair as well. So I don't think that's going anywhere. Yeah, I'm not sure if 20 inches is a bust now.

26:49You gotta be like 30. 30? Yeah, I thought 20. Oh, it's been a long time. I know, I'm overdue. When you give those numbers, obviously you have a wife, you have a daughter. Yeah. Braves is expensive. Everything. It's just expensive. Yeah. And like you said, that number is going to continue to increase as more people look at opportunities for entrepreneurship. to create in that space. Yeah. I want to talk about something that is important and it's something that we've actually had looked into when we were creating the event is the timing of it. Because summer is usually when you see a lot of music festivals.

27:24Yeah. A lot of people are going on tour. A lot of Black events are happening. Yeah. And so you're right in smack in the middle of that. And so talk about the timing of it in terms of why you chose to do it when you did and competing with some of those people who are fighting for those same sponsorship dollars that you are looking for. Yeah, yeah. Well, when we think about New York Curl Fest, you know, it's funny, right? When we first, first conjured up the whole idea, we called it a picnic in a park. Like if I gave you the flyer that I made back then, And we literally said Curl Fest, a picnic in the park, which is kind of ironic, right?

28:09Because we called it Curl Fest. So it almost manifested itself before we even realized what it had the potential to be. And I only bring that up because the grass aspect of it, the summer aspect of it, is actually a pillar for what we've been able to create. And so that puts us in the summer month for New York. Obviously, you know, goals and aspirations to expand to other countries and continents, you know, we'll have a little bit more leeway in terms of that. When we did Atlanta, Atlanta was in September. That's great. Yeah, September 20. Was that 2019? 2019. 2019 as well. Yeah. Yeah, 2019. And so, you know, when we think about, OK, what, you know, what's the formula for Crowfest?

28:54Like what has to be true for it to feel like Curl Fest, to not feel like maybe a convention inside, right, or a symposium. And so the outside sort of grounding of the earth is a part of it. So what, you know, what that means is tough decisions, right? What that means is early pitching. What that means is continuing to try and, to be honest, convince some partners that there's a need. Our audience is a spending audience. They come with intention. We have stories for days of, you know, partners that come on the grass, whether that's a small business or a large business. They bring in boxes and boxes and tons of product.

29:42When it's time to load out, they're loading out with nothing. And so I think when we think about it, there's an economic part of it that we can deliver. We know that we have a primed audience who is in need of service. And so you're going to check that box when you come to CurlFest as a sponsor. I think when you think about there always will be something. So it's like, okay, well, if we don't do it in June, what if we do it in July or something else? Oh, okay, how about August? There's always going to be something. And so I think for any entrepreneur out there, yes, there's ebbs and flows. There's things you have to ship.

30:23You have to be fluid. But at the same time, at some point, you have to feel confident in what you've created. Otherwise, why wake up and do it? I was going to say the same thing. Every month, we've entertained. We've moved Curl Fest from July before. But there's always something, right? There's always something. There's always proximity to another event. And in the boardrooms where we're not in, you know, they probably have conversations like, listen, we only have money for one black event this year. Which one is it going to be? Right. And so it's really just being steadfast in like what you offer.