188. Bonnie Prince Charlie: The Young Pretender

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0:29Captain Richard Robinson's last voyage had not gone exactly to plan. His ship, the Brigantine Anne, had sailed from Liverpool in late July 1745, bound for the Baltic port of Riga. The outward journey was uneventful and, having loaded his brig with a cargo of timber, the captain and his crew embarked for home. Navigating the treacherous seas around the British Isles was no simple matter. But while heading south, past the west coast of Scotland, the unusually rough winds drove the And to seek refuge near the small inner Hebridean island of Canna, located 12 miles off the southwest of Skye and here she remained until a sequence of disturbing incidents forced her captain to take his vessel back out into the open stormy seas.

1:32The Anne finally docked at Liverpool at around 11 o 'clock at night on Thursday the 15th of August and early the following morning Captain Robinson hastened to the chambers of the Mayor Owen Pritchard. Under oath, the captain recounted his story as a clerk scribbled down the particulars. You do love a reading, don't you? I do love a reading. And this is a particularly good reading because we've just had episodes on the Acts of Union. Today, I'm delighted to say we're joined by historian Jacqueline Riding, author of Jacobites, A New History of the 45 Rebellion, to discuss, well, all these words that you probably have floating around in your consciousness, but we want to put the meat on those bones.

2:17So, words like Jacobite, the name Bonnie Prince Charlie, the Battle of Culloden, all of these… Floating around the corner of your consciousness, Scottish listeners of who are out there in their hundreds of thousands know this with their porridge in their morning. This is the centre of their life. Well, as I was explaining to Jacqueline, you and our producer are part of the provisional wing of the I Am Scottish movement. But for those who aren't members of that particular merry band, Jacqueline, welcome. Hello. Hello. Good morning. Hello. I mean, I don't know whether I count you as part of that.

2:54I suppose, I mean, as an expert, you must be honorary queen of the clan. Honorary Jacobite. Honorary Jacobite queen. Well, I'm certainly a Jacobite. That's it. Very good. Okay, so let's start with something very, very basic. When we say Jacobite, what do we mean? And in this sense, I'm not a Jacobite. I'm a Jacobite in the sense that I have, you know, I study it and it's fascinating and I'm determined that it integrates itself into the broader sense of 18th century British European world history. So that's my, I'm a cheerleader for Jacobite history. But the simple answer, there's a complicated answer as ever, and then there's a simple answer to what is a Jacobite.

3:32Okay, so give us both. We can fasten your seatbelts, William. Right, let's start simple, then go complex. So when it comes to the late 17th century, 18th century, Jacobites are the followers of James II of England and Ireland and VII of Scotland, who was removed in the Glorious Revolution as described in 1688. And Jacobites, because it comes from Jacobus, for James, are supporters of his right to rule alongside the senior branch, which is the male branch, which is James Francis Edward Stuart and then his son, Charles Edward Stuart. So this is the line that Jacobites support. The Stuart line, the main male Stuart line.

4:13Exactly. The elder branch of the Stuart line, which is expelled from England and Scotland in 1688, and the return of which is supported by Jacobites. So it's James II and VII, and his son, James Francis Edward Stuart, who inherits that right. And then his son, Charles Edward Stuart, body Prince Charlie, would then inherit that right further on. And it's a song actually which children are taught to sing. I was taught to sing when I was in primary school. We were in a choir and did it in a really quite, well, an Essex harmony. Take that as you will. But it is Speed Bonny Boat, Like a Bird on the Wing, Onward the Sailors Cried.

4:54The song that will sit in many people's heads is about the last Charles, the Stuart, who would have, could have, was not king. And of course, once the Stuarts, the senior branch, are exiled in 1688, they are the kings over the water. So that's where you get that kind of phrase as well. So you get drinking clubs, passing a glass of wine and a toast over a bowl of water to represent their allegiance to the kings over the water, which are the Stuarts abroad. And William, I mean, your reading was that part of the song, which is onward the lad that is born to be king. Yes, Jacqueline, tell us what the captain saw in Canada, that he had to get post-haste to the authorities in London.

5:38What was that all a reference to? So what the captain actually is witnessing is the beginnings of the rising itself. So he's witnessing the fact that Charles Edward Stuart has already landed. Now, to an extent, there were rumours, as you can imagine, had been coming to London over the previous few weeks since Charles had actually landed on the 23rd of July. So this is just before the ship's captain actually has to go into the area of the inner Hebergees. So he has landed for several weeks, but there have been rumours. But this is bona fide a first-hand witness statement from somebody who happened across it, goes to Liverpool, tells him exactly what he's seen, which is that there's men starting to arm, there's money coming in, there's clansmen joining the cause of this tall, handsome young man who everyone calls Prince Charles and this, that, the other.

6:30That's what he witnesses. So it's first hand witness statement from somebody who has no skin in the game, which then directly gets sent overnight to London, fast tracked. And that's what the British government hears. Right. OK, so that is one hell of a teaser. And that's what we're going to be examining over the next two episodes. Let's go right back. Let's go right, right back. So you mentioned James II, who is sort of the start of this, as Scots would say, legitimate claim to the British throne, which could have changed everything. Some Scots. Could have changed. Some Scots. Very good. Some Scots, say.

7:03Which would have completely reshaped or differently shaped Britain that then became the empire that we know. Who was James II and why did he matter? And why was he controversial as well? He was a controversial figure. So James II is the brother of Charles II and his heir. Because Charles II, despite shagging about... On a magnificent scale, we should say. On a global steroid-driven scale, didn't produce a legitimate heir. So eventually it becomes obvious that, in fact, James II and VII is going to be the king of England, Ireland and Scotland. Okay, and just on that, James II and VII, how can somebody be James II and VII at the same time?

7:43Can you just explain that? Well, the one thing you've absolutely got to realise, because this is why the whole thing gets complicated, what you've got to realise is that, in fact, Scotland and England and Ireland are three separate kingdoms, three separate parliaments. They are not united. We share a British Isles, but we are not united. That doesn't happen officially until the Acts of Union in 1707. And even then, Ireland is still separate, has a separate parliament to what then becomes Great Britain in 1707. The crowns have been united under a single monarch since 1603. So that's the uniting of the crowns.

8:18But even then, it's still not, I mean, James I of England and VI of Scotland, I of Ireland and England and Scotland, uses the term Great Britain. I will make them one people. He wants to unite the British Isles under a single flag. We see those fabulous designs for a single flag, which kind of anticipate the Union Jack, but that's in the early 17th century. This is a Stuart project to unite the British Isles under a single king and eventually under a single parliament. So that's why it's complicated. It's England, Scotland and Ireland until 1707, and then you get Great Britain and Ireland post-1707.

8:57And just to throw another element into the mix for those who don't know this history, there's also not only the division between different kingdoms, but also the division between Catholic and Protestant. Explain how that plays out. Well, you've got differences between the established churches in Scotland and England. That's the official churches like the Church of Scotland Church of England. You've got the Catholic Church, which also exists but has very little power because you've got various laws that prohibit Catholics and non-conformists, by the way. So there's both who are not Church of England.

9:31They're prohibited from certain professions. They're prohibited from certain educational organisations like the universities. Pretty basic stuff. So certain things are absolutely blocked. Being a member of parliament, you know, etc. You know, it's all blocked. So this, if you like, is the last lingering wounds from the Reformation. The Protestants have won, they're in power. And one of the problems with James in the eyes of the establishment is that he's a Catholic. It's not just that he's from a family which they're increasingly getting tired of, he has the wrong religion. Exactly, because by the late, mid, late 17th century, England and Scotland are firmly Protestant.

10:09Whichever permutation of that Protestantism is, whether it's Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Church of England, non-conformist, etc., it is predominantly Protestant. So the idea of having a Catholic king in charge of Protestant countries like Scotland and England is in and of itself anathema. And it certainly wouldn't happen in France. You wouldn't have a Catholic country with a Protestant in charge. But it's not just a religious issue, it's a political issue, because of course, the king is part of the constitution. And the constitution includes parliament, it includes nobility, includes these established churches, and the king.

10:45And they all sit in this sort of hopefully happy relationship. And if you have a king who is Catholic and wanting to emancipate the Catholics within a country which is predominantly Protestant, then suddenly you've got not just a religious issue, but it's actually a political and a social issue as well. So what to us would look like a completely natural, obvious declaration of human rights, that Catholics and non-conformists can go to university, can stand for parliament, are equal in every way to other people in the country, is at this period a highly controversial view for the king to hold? It is.

11:20And of course, Charles II and James II were both exiled together in France, which is where James starts to find an empathy and eventually converts to Catholicism. Before that point, he would have been seen as a Protestant. We know that Charles II was also sympathetic and empathetic to the Roman Catholic religion and possibly converted on his deathbed. So the very fact that the Stuarts have this complicated history over the 17th century, constantly being exiled and coming back, their influences are more pan-European, perhaps, than many of their subjects. and they certainly pick up an interest and then start to feel an empathy with Catholicism by the time they return in 1660 and certainly by the time James II and VII inherits the throne from his brother in 1685.

12:10And the Jacobites, I mean, they wear it on their sleeve quite literally because their emblem is the white rose, which is linked to the House of Bourbon, which is also going to put people's backs up in England because, you know, it is a foreign emblem. It's the French, It's an influence from not only a different religion, but maybe different loyalties, different priorities, people we fight with. Exactly. I mean, the whole religious affiliation with other countries, when you're perpetually at war with one particular country, which is France, which is the mega state of Europe. Everybody is having to negotiate France and its ambitions, both in Europe, beyond in the Indian subcontinent, and then obviously in North America, and then the global trade issue.

12:52I mean, this is a big, it's big history. And this is why who is King of England and Great Britain and the success or not of the Jacobite risings to put the heirs, the senior heirs of James II and VII on the throne is a European and global issue because it affects the war. It affects who joins who and when. Trades, allegiances, money flows, everything. Everything depends on this. Yeah. You have a standing army of a certain number. And if you have a rebellion at home, you've got to send your army home to deal with the rebellion. So you're destabilizing the British state from within. So part of a consistent element of the French foreign policy from the Louis XIV through Louis XV into Louis XVI, which we can kind of get on to, is the destabilizing of the English-British state by encouraging, with men, arms, money, risings within the British Isles.

13:46So Jacqueline, in our schools, we're still talked about what the textbooks call the Glorious Revolution. Now, that's a reference to the deposition of James II and VII and his replacement with Mary II and her Dutch husband, William of Orange. Now, that is always presented in the textbooks today as if it's a wonderful thing, the Glorious Revolution, as its name suggests. But was it actually something that was popular at the time? I think it really reverts back to this idea of what's the bigger issue here. And the bigger issue is the power play in Europe. And who's the biggest cuckoo in the nest in Europe?

14:23It's the Catholic France. So it's those allegiances. And don't forget, the Stuarts are also cousins of the kings of France. So they have a natural familial connection with the Stuarts, the Bourbons and the Stuarts, but also a religious connection, because they're both Catholic. And I think we're interested in what people think in England and Scotland and then Great Britain. But to a vast degree, it's what is France willing to do on their behalf? And that's the issue. Who's supporting who? Yeah, who's pulling the strings? You know, if you do have a steward on the throne and he's beholden to the owners of the White Rose, the House of Bourbon, then, you know, who exactly is running our country?

14:57I can see that. Did they call it the Glorious Revolution at the time or is that a moniker that was attached later? And what did people in the rest of Europe call it? I mean, I think it was called the Glorious Revolution because it was seen as bloodless. And it was glorious because they got rid of James relatively quickly and sort of seamlessly. Although, of course, that's not the case, because what then triggers is a whole load of military risings. You know, so it's not bloodless at all. And in fact, you know, the whole situation is fraught for the hundred years. It's only until Charles Edward Stewart dies, a hundred years exactly later, that any sense of a settlement has really sort of genuinely occurred.

15:33So how different is the reaction to the Glorious Revolution in Scotland? Because what we're going to see over the next 50 years is risings that originate in Scotland, trying to put back the Stuarts, who were, of course, originally a Scottish family who ended up on the throne of England too. Is it very different, the reaction to 1688 in Scotland, or only a little bit different? Well, quite rightly, the Scottish Parliament and the independent kingdom of Scotland acts independently, and their response is independent, but they come to a similar conclusion. I mean, if James II and VII abdicates as far as the English Parliament is concerned, in Scotland, obviously the king has a different relationship to the country and parliament.

16:14It's more of a contractual relationship. They see it differently, but then they decide actually they are willing to offer the crown similarly to William III and Mary, Mary being the daughter of James II and VII. So at least there is a segue from a Stuart point of view, from a ruling family point of view, but they are the junior branch. They are the branch through the female line, not the male line. So there is a difference. And this is important because while Scots today very largely look with the sort of eye of tragedy and great sadness at the failure of the Jacobite rebellions and the defeat at Culloden, all these things we'll be talking about over the next two episodes.

16:52In actual fact, a lot of Scots are fighting on the government side. There's absolutely no sense that the whole of Scotland is united behind Bonnie Prince Charlie and that as in England, you've got a divided country. Is it fair to say a relatively small minority who still want the Stuarts back or maybe a third? Yeah, because the difficulty, of course, calculating the strength of Jacobitism is that further away you get from 1688, the more bedded in the new regime becomes. The year after the so-called Glorious Revolution, whatever they may call it in France, I don't know, but someone will tell us.

17:26But all of those suspicions that those in England had, that there is just too much sympathy and too much string pulling from the French, seems to be vindicated a year later when James tries to take his throne back, completely backed by the French. Now, just tell us about that attempt in March 1869, when he does try and seize his throne back. Well, this is the template for the Risings right the way through to the 45, is that in order to invade a country, you need support from someone else. You don't have the wherewithal yourself. You've got to have a support. And money is the main thing. Arms is another thing.

18:04And men is another thing. But immediately you look like a foreign invader. The optics is terrible. The optics are bad. The optics is terrible. You know, he's cousin to the King of France. So all the propaganda, you can see it just forming in front of your eyes, you know, the propaganda machine. He lands in Ireland because, of course, it's a separate country. Unlike England and Scotland, Ireland is still predominantly Catholic. And the parliament has refused to acknowledge or follow what's going on in England and Scotland. So this seems to be a good place to have a foothold. James never wants just Ireland.

18:38He never wants just Scotland. He wants all three kingdoms back. and it becomes a mantra to the Stuarts, all kingdoms or none. So he comes back with some 4 ,000 French troops. And how then does that first face-off, as you say, the template for all Jacobite uprisings thereafter, how does it go? What happens? Well, it ultimately fails, as it turns out, at the Battle of the Boyne, even though technically the Boyne is, in retrospect, a bit like Culloden, seen as definitive. At the time, it was seen as a significant battle, but not necessarily the end of the rising in Ireland. I mean, the bottom line is, as soon as there's any sense of defeat, James just simply returns to France.

19:19And each time you have a failure, it becomes increasingly more difficult to try again. Hence, the closer you get to 1688 or 1714 or 1707, those ceremonial dates where certain seismic shifts occur, where you might be able to rally more people to your flag, Like the further away you get from that, the more difficult it becomes. Although passion is passion. And we talked about very briefly the massacre of Glencoe, where my earnest friend here is quite involved in this. There is a Dalrymple right at the heart of this. So the massacre of Glencoe, just for those who may not have heard our previous chat about this, even though it's getting harder and harder, even though every time James goes back and his forces are defeated, it's harder to rally an army.

20:05Glencoe is a really decisive and bloody chapter in this fight. Just tell us what happens. And the point being that the background to this is that the government wants the Scottish clans to swear an oath of allegiance, precisely because they're suspected of being sympathetic to the Stuarts. That's right. Actually, in their defence, they've already sworn allegiance to James, who's still alive and sitting in Saint-Germain-en-Laye. You know, he's just across the Channel, so he's accessible. and they have sworn allegiance to him. So being asked to swear allegiance to somebody else. To bend the knee, to use the words of the Game of Thrones, they have to bend the knee, yeah.

20:44Well, that's what you do to a king, isn't it, I suppose, of whatever stripe. So eventually they ask for permission, effectively, from James in order to stop any difficulty from the clan's point of view. They ask permission from him to make this oath of allegiance just to get the government off their backs. So you're saying, look, bend the knee, but with their fingers crossed behind their back. Exactly. Well, do you know what? Difficult times, difficult measures. Sure. You've got to be flexible. Well, you want to save your lands and your families and the people you care about. Well, this is it.

21:14I mean, love and loyalty is one thing. But if you keep losing your money, keep losing your land, keep losing your clansmen, every single time this happens, again, it becomes increasingly difficult for people to justify rising to the flag of the Stuarts. And this is something that the Stuarts, I think, are very keenly aware of. But increasingly, even they get used to where they are in exile and start to accommodate that. So when those chieftains say, look, James, hard times, we love you, but can we just do this thing just to keep safe? What does he say? Well, sadly for the clans, and dithering is a kind of Stuart thing as well, it seems to me.

21:50They do tend to dither and not grasp an opportunity, which is why Charlie, Body Prince Charlie is so different, because he does grasp an opportunity, which the others tend not to. They're much more careful. Unfortunately, James doesn't send them the go-ahead in a timely fashion. And so unfortunately, it's all delayed and there's a deadline to swear the oath by and all that kind of thing. So you end up with this sort of, it's a shift between tragedy and farce that goes on, people scrambling around the highlands trying to get to somewhere to declare the oath on behalf of their clan, et cetera, et cetera.

22:20By the deadline, which is New Year's Day, isn't it? Which is a date everyone can remember. And unfortunately, James just dithers and dithers until he just gives them next to no time to sign at all. But then there's also a kind of comedy of errors, which makes it even more tragic what happens at Glencoe, because they were absolutely intending, now they've got permission from James, to sign the allegiance. But when they arrive at Inverness to sign it, the notary has gone. So the notary or the magistrate who's going to take these oaths of allegiance, where does he go and why does he go? What is the reason for him disappearing at this pivotal point where hundreds of lives could be saved, even if people have got their fingers crossed behind their backs.

23:00Where does he go and why does he go? Is there some sort of black arts going on here or is it just fast? Office hours. Is it just really that? Good Lord. I mean, it's just nuts. Well, you've been hanging around for weeks waiting for them to turn up and then suddenly they decide to do something. Look at it from somebody else's point of view. Look, they haven't arrived again. It's that kind of thing. So maybe there's a bit of that. And so very briefly, what happens? that Campbell's are sent to take retribution against the McDonald's of Glencoe, but rather than just marching in and attacking them, they do this terrible betrayal of hospitality by staying with them and then falling on them in the night.

23:39I mean, you missed out the fact that Sir John Daurampal, the Secretary of State for Scotland, tells them to do this terrible, nefarious thing. He doesn't tell them to stay with them and sleep with their women and drink their whiskey. All right, okay. Have you been paying penance ever since? I once had a very, very crappy car that had a habit of breaking down. And there was one awful moment when it very nearly broke down in Glencoe. And I only had a credit card. With your name Dara Palana. That's hilarious. Oh, that's very funny. It's not a great day, I have to say, for Drupal. No. It's a very tragic moment.

24:18But the bottom line is, is that this is a combination of, as you said, I think about 30 or so people actually die, which is, you know, it's significant. I once had this conversation with an Afghan who was asking me about the massacre of Glencoe, having been told by Rory Stewart, I'm ashamed to say, that my family were responsible for this. And he was very dismissive. He said, a massacre? Only 30 people in Afghanistan? We call that a car crash, he said. Can I also say, thanks, Rory. Isn't he a friend of yours? Rory's been doing this for a while. Bloody delightful. I know you're up to this. Well, he's obviously being encouraged by Alistair Campbell.

24:56Obviously. Well, Campbell is my side of the battle here. But the result, whether this is an Afghan car crash or, you know, a serious massacre, it sends a message. And as a result of the massacre, is it the case that all the other reluctant or waiting for a memo chieftains, you know, with the memo that doesn't come from James, do they then rush to sign their allegiance? Well, I think, I mean, vast majority already have. So I think because they've already had that message from James, I don't know whether there's anyone left, you know, but the key thing about Glencoe is exactly what Willie's just said.

25:30You know, the idea that you actually massacre people that you've had their hospitality is the first thing. So it's a human, on a human level, it's desperately unpleasant. And on a clansman sort of clan culture level, it's desperately unpleasant. But the key to it, of course, is that it rallies people to the flag because it's a shocking event. It's shocking, it's hard-hearted, it's unpleasant on so many levels. And hence, you know, it becomes a rallying flag for the Jacobite movement. Jacqueline, we're longing to get to the great 45 rebellion. But very quickly, tell us and take us through the 15, the first Jacobite rebellion, as it's called in the textbooks.