In short
Spoiler special discussion of Netflix’s A House of Dynamite, Catherine Bigelow’s first film since 2017’s Detroit. They focus on its fictional doomsday scenario: an unattributed nuclear missile hits Chicago, then rapid retaliation logic threatens worldwide nuclear escalation.
Guests
Helen O’Hara (film critic/journalist) and James Dyer (film critic/journalist). Host Chris Hewitt moderates.
Guest backgrounds
Both are regular Empire Podcast contributors; they analyze film craft and politics/strategy themes rather than providing firsthand nuclear expertise.
Key claims
Nuclear retaliation “makes no sense” because leaders don’t know who launched; the film’s hawkish decision-making is portrayed as power/perception-driven. The ending’s ambiguity (no on-screen Chicago destruction) is effective but frustrating. They debate missile-defense realism, citing GBIs/ground-based interceptors as allegedly coin-flip (~50–60%) rather than 100% success.
Notable examples
Idris Elba as President; Tracy Letts in Stratcom; “second wave” retaliation; Rebecca Ferguson’s “drive” call; Jared Harris disappearing mid-call; Cheyenne Mountain/Stargate-like bunker; comparisons to Dr. Strangelove, Fail-Safe, Crimson Tide, Tenet, and The Mist.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIntroducing the Film 'A House of Dynamite'
0:45 to 2:20
The hosts discuss their excitement for the film and its comedic elements.
“And those two colleagues of such lethal cunning are, of course, Helen O 'Hara.”
Exploring the Film's Premise and Impact
2:20 to 4:09
The hosts delve into the fictional scenario of a nuclear attack depicted in the film.
“it's a nightmarish doomsday scenario that made me feel great about the state of the world.”
Analyzing the Retaliation Logic
4:09 to 9:03
The hosts analyze the logic and implications of retaliating to a nuclear strike.
“This is dead reckoning territory, isn't it?”
The Characters and Decision-Making
9:03 to 12:19
Discussion on characters' decision-making processes and their implications on humanity.
“tied the doomsday device to his own pulse that feels very true to where we are as a society Like, you know, I don't think certain people in the world right now would hesitate even as long as POTUS in this movie does.”
The Absence of Diplomacy in Crisis
12:19 to 14:00
The hosts critique the lack of diplomatic efforts depicted in the film during a crisis.
“You have the night agent, Gabriel Basso.”
Nuclear Decision-Making and Consequences
14:00 to 17:01
Discusses the implications of nuclear decision-making and America's role as a superpower.
“like, what you're describing is surrender, which is an extraordinary male response to this situation.”
America's Global Perception
17:01 to 20:20
Explores how America's actions have shifted global perceptions and the associated fears.
“True, but there's a looser cannon in this movie.”
The Reliability of Missile Defense
20:20 to 22:24
Analyzes the effectiveness of ground-based interceptors and government claims.
“about nuclear war or whatever this is, the end of the world, etc., etc.”
The Ambiguous Ending of the Film
22:24 to 25:02
Discusses the film's abrupt ending and its impact on audience expectations and emotional response.
“Yeah, that scene, I mean, it's just this sheer madness.”
Exploring Existential Themes in Cinema
25:02 to 28:00
Reflects on how films address existential crises and societal fears, particularly around nuclear threats.
“You get this sense of building tension and panic, but controlled panic.”
Show all 24 chapters
Existential Reflections and Media Depictions
28:00 to 29:19
The hosts discuss their reactions to 'House of Dynamite' and the portrayal of media responses in crisis situations.
“But I wanted to just sit with it and be seated with it and just be there and just think about it.”
Nuclear Scenarios and Their Implications
29:20 to 30:58
A deep dive into the implications of nuclear warfare depicted in film and how real-life responses might differ.
“I was trying to think, like maybe there's a way to like, sort of zoom out to a satellite view and you just see the spots of light as missiles launch and launch and launch all over the world.”
Character Moments and Emotional Resonance
30:59 to 32:59
Analysis of key character moments in the film that evoke strong emotional reactions and the portrayal of human connection in the face of disaster.
“You can't have that because the timeline is so truncated now.”
The Importance of Communication in Crisis
33:00 to 34:34
Discussion on the critical nature of communication during crises and its portrayal in films, emphasizing the absence in the discussed film.
“Is it something like eight minutes at that point?”
Protocol and the Evolution of Nuclear Responses
34:35 to 36:26
Exploration of the outdated nuclear response protocols and their relevance in contemporary scenarios.
“And Jason Clark goes, okay, right, I've got to call this organization now to get their diggers ready.”
Survival Scenarios and the Myth of Shelter
36:27 to 37:56
Hosts speculate on survival strategies in a nuclear fallout scenario, including geographical considerations.
“He seemed quite love and peace, you know?”
Humor in the Face of Catastrophe
37:57 to 41:12
A humorous take on how to cope with the end of the world, discussing hypothetical scenarios with wit.
“There would be nuclear winter, blah, blah, blah, blah.”
Miracle Mile: A Reflection on Nuclear Panic Films
41:13 to 42:01
Discussion on the film 'Miracle Mile' and its take on nuclear panic, blending a love story with existential dread.
Exploring a Love Story in 'Miracle Mile'
42:01 to 43:30
Discussing a love story and its chaotic ending in 'Miracle Mile'.
“He stays behind to try and find her and, you know, to protect her and to get her out of the city.”
Survival Strategies Under Nuclear Threat
43:31 to 45:02
Debating how individuals might react and survive during a nuclear crisis.
“and Kurt Fuller goes nuts and he's taking drugs and he's drinking, you know, loads of champagne, etc, etc, etc.”
Movie Theater as Safe Haven
45:03 to 46:50
Discussing the best locations to shelter during a crisis, focusing on cinemas.
“And the micro expression where she's like, and then she's about to, and then she kind of gets a lid on it and she's just like...”
Critical Perspectives on Film Performances
46:51 to 48:41
Analyzing performances in the movie and discussing character arcs.
“Well, the first segment is the most powerful by far.”
Hypothetical Film Selection During Apocalypse
48:42 to 51:29
Imagining a film list to watch during a catastrophic event.
“It's basically one is all-out nuclear strike, and the other is a global EMP to, instead of striking them with nuclear weapons, it's to basically revert the world, essentially, back to the Stone Age.”
Reflections on Nuclear Threat and Cinema's Role
51:30 to 53:11
Contemplating the impact of nuclear threat and the potential for cinema to influence change.
“But it's, you know, apocalyptic and bunkery.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:14Chris Hewitt:Hello pod, I'm Chris Hewitt and welcome to the latest Empire Podcast Spoiler Special. And this one is dedicated to Catherine Bigelow's latest knockabout laugher, big old laugh fest. It's a house of dynamite, folks. And we don't have a Catherine Bigelow interview to go with this. Not yet. Anyway, we are trying. But I was so blown away by this movie and so shaken by this movie that I thought, you know what? I'm going to get my two colleagues of such lethal cunning into the pod booth. And we're going to have a big old chat about how this movie made us feel. And about how nuclear weapons are. Checks know it's bad.
0:50Chris Hewitt:And all the good stuff. And those two colleagues of such lethal cunning are, of course, Helen O 'Hara. Hello. And James Dyer. Hi, Chris. Hi, James. That's exactly the tone you want when you're talking about A House of Dynamite. Yay. Yay. Subtitle, we're all fucked and going to hell in a handbasket. So this film, it's on Netflix right now. It is Catherine Bigelow's first movie since 2017's Detroit. It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. this film I think it's her most fun film since Point Break yeah definitely I would say for laughs for straight up laughs straight up laughs there's a laugh at minute two there's a bit of business with Rebecca Ferguson's young son a little bit of comedy he's got a little toy car dinosaur humor yep that's fun and then there's the rest of the film yeah yeah pretty much so this is a movie about what would happen this is a obviously a fictional scenario but one that could be all too real should a bad actor, and there are no bad actors in this movie, by the way, fire a single nuclear missile, fire nuclear weapons at the United States of America and they don't know who it's from.
2:15Chris Hewitt:You've seen the movie, right? You listen to this. Therefore, you've seen the movie. You know what it's about. Yes. It is about, it's a nightmarish doomsday scenario that made me feel great about the state of the world. The only solace I can possibly take from this, and having read also recently Annie Jacobson's incredible book, Nuclear War, A Scenario, which actually had been on Denis Villeneuve's docket to make before he got sidetracked by Dune Part 3 and obviously Bond as well. He may still make this at some point, but quite frankly, he doesn't need to bother because this movie has essentially adapted that book before that book came out, if you know what I mean.
2:56Chris Hewitt:And both of those were absolutely sobering reads that just left me chilled to my very bone. But the only solace I could take from that and from this is that were a single unattributed missile to be fired at the U of K or the U of USA, then we wouldn't really know much about it until it exploded and then we'd all be dead. Great. Such an upside. Thank you so much. But it's the second wave that you have to worry about because the second wave of people in this movie, so the missile explodes in Chicago. Or does it? Or does it? Or does it? It does, yeah. Well, I want to talk about the ending of this.
3:32Chris Hewitt:Yeah, we should. I want to start at the end and then work our way back. Right. But let's say the missile explodes in Chicago. And then it's the second wave of everything that happens. So, because by that point, the press know that something's going down. They're clearing the White House press office. Clearly something bad is about to happen. News would come out that Chicago... Hey guys, is not there anymore. And now President POTUS, he's just called POTUS in this, he doesn't have a surname. President Idris Elba, Stringer Bell himself, has retaliated. But because he doesn't know who he's retaliating against, he's decided to just go for a smorgasbord.
4:09This is dead reckoning territory, isn't it?
4:10Chris Hewitt:Retaliation, yeah. It really is. And then those people would know that something is up. Those people in those cities, let's say, for example, he's firing at Moscow, he's firing at Pyongyang, he's firing at where else? China as well. He's just, you know, spraying shit out. Those people would know. Then they would retaliate. So we in London would have maybe an hour? An hour? I don't think you can even put numbers on it. But I suppose I have so many questions about, and maybe you'll know from this book, it's the logic of the response. Yes. And it makes no sense. And listening to, you know, the hawk in the sort of Stratcom place, saying, right, we've got to hit them back.
4:51So even if you knew who had hit you, which, and I cannot emphasize it enough, you fucking don't. Their solution is let's hit everyone we don't like. North Korea, China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan, everyone.
5:03Chris Hewitt:And the law of averages suggest we'll hit them. But also, the fact remains, you cannot stop a nuclear retaliation because people have sub-base launches. They have mobile launches. They'll always find a way. It's not like you could take out all of their missiles. You couldn't. And also, like, mutually assured destruction is still a thing. Hey, what do those letters stand for? And the environmental impact would be absolutely devastating beyond the initial body. The death toll would be catastrophic. Communication disruption can mean only one thing. But I was just fascinated by that mentality. Like, we've got to hit them back.
5:36It's like, even if you knew that Russia had launched a missile, hitting them back ends the world. So what is the fucking upside? Yeah, it's a weird one, isn't it? Because that was my big hang-up for this movie. like apart from anything else first of all wait a minute and see? Yeah, there's literally no downside. Which is what Idris Elba's president is talking about. Inclined to do but then you've got this you know young idealistic military officer going no, fuck them all up. And he seems to be moving in that direction and the end of the movie to me very strongly implied that he went in that direction.
6:13Because they're going into a shelter. Because they're all going into the shelter and maybe the word hasn't gotten to them yet but it kind of feels that way. so i think the implication to me at the end of the movie is yes it landed boom went chicago and also now boom goes everywhere else the thing that that did frustrate me though is like he did have time to reach out to people he did have time to talk this was not a strike that was going to wipe out america's response capability this was a strike that was going to destroy one city well And that's what the world is afraid of in terms of America.
6:48Which is a political solution, not a practical solution, because they have to be seen to be doing something, because they have to be seen to look strong. And when you're seeing that conversation they're having in the car about what we should do, I was like, this is the most American thing ever. It's the idea, this isn't about what's best for the world. This isn't even about what's sensible. This is about the perception of American hard power around the globe. Yeah, exactly. It's all willy-waving, all of it. It's extraordinary. Yeah.
7:13Chris Hewitt:Well, because they're scared that if they even took a beat and allowed, even if they, you know, let's wait and see. Let's wait and see. It may not work. And they think other people will pile on. They're like, well, everyone will do it. Not just that, but yeah, absolutely. That's exactly it. But if they wait and see the missile may not work, it may not explode. But then you'll have lots of people in Chicago, this missile just plugs down into the ground going, hang on a sec, what the fuck is that? And then they're worried that if they show, they hesitate for even a second to retaliate that everyone else would go, oh, we can blow up an American city and it'll be totally fine.
7:49Chris Hewitt:Hey, goodbye Milwaukee. They go, bundle, and just go charging in. Yeah, but I would caution, I would say, just take a beat. It's the same with Crimson Tide, isn't it? Like that whole thing where he's like, where Gina Hattman is like, we've got to launch them, we've got to hit them back. It's like, what you are doing here is saying, let us end the world. Like, there is no situation, Even if Russia successfully nuked America, there is a logical, sensible argument for still not retaliating because it's then game over. Yeah, but it's not logical or sensible, as you're saying. It's about power. It's about the perception of power.
8:25And it's about... It is also about difficult conversations. I get the idea that if you didn't launch it once, you'd have hard questions to answer on Fox News. But also, who gives a fuck? Exactly. Who gives a fuck? and I think you know you see this really clearly in the Tracy Letts character in Stratcom where you know he is just a hawk and he is like we've trained for this we've prepared for this let's fucking end the world and that kind of nihilism is I think what I find most terrifying about this film you know that thing in Tenet where basically the end of the world for Kenneth Branagh is the end of the world for everybody like he's basically tied the doomsday device to his own pulse that feels very true to where we are as a society Like, you know, I don't think certain people in the world right now would hesitate even as long as POTUS in this movie does.
9:16Because I don't think they care, even to the degree that he does. And I don't think he's meant to be a good man. You know, we talked on the regular pod about this is West Wing-esque in that there are lots of competent people in this movie. But he's not Jed Bartlett. Doing their jobs. But he's not Jed Bartlett. He is absolutely not Jed Bartlett. And he's inexperienced and he doesn't know how to make decisions. And he's clearly out of his depth. And he hasn't been properly briefed. And to be honest, nobody knows how to make this decision. Nobody knows. The smartest thing I ever heard about nuclear war was the fairly serious suggestion that instead of the nuclear football, the key to the nuclear football should literally be lodged in the flesh of the marine type responsible.
9:58And the president should literally have to kill him to get the launch codes. Because if he's not willing to kill one person with his bare hands, he should not be allowed to launch to the fucking end of the world that is the only sensible way I think to have a nuclear football that's great
10:15Chris Hewitt:I'm all for that as long as you're not the one Chris Volms has the football in him but it is also about the fact that they're talking it's such an abstract concept there's a moment in the movie where the missile is heading towards Chicago and they're like how many people in Chicago? 9, 10 million and Tracy Letts is like okay we've just lost 10 million people and he says it just so it's been a couple weeks since I saw the movie so I'm paraphrasing and please do forgive me but just the because he switches into that military mindset almost immediately he's just having a chat and a laugh with the guys you see the game last night and then oh there's a missile okay now I'm paying attention now I'm serious but it's okay we'll take care of it and then the second that it doesn't and they realize it is going to blow up Chicago probably then he is absolutely I don't think he's quite Buck Turgidson I don't think he's quite the George C.
11:04Chris Hewitt:Scott I don't think he's a warmongerer in the style of George C. Scott in Dr. Strangelove, but he is someone who is absolutely just emotion-free in his decision-making. He's an old-school military hawk, isn't he? Absolutely. And the fact that he reduces those 10 million people who are people with lives to this abstract thought, just a number on the screen, so therefore he can divorce his humanity from that and make the decisions or recommendations that he needs to make. That's because none of these people, none of these people at any high level have seen the devastation that a nuclear missile ICBM would wreak on a major city and I think if they did see that then they might want to step back a little bit and all the mad men in the world all the despots all the dictators who would very much like to fire a single nuclear missile or more at the United States or other countries you know I'd like to think that would give them pause if they saw the level of destruction I think it would give military men pause but I think there are people out there that it would not I think you might be giving them more credit yeah because I think they also they would see that as a mark of professionalism they would see that as a mark of training they would see that as a mark of them doing their jobs right to be able to switch off their humanity in that sense but what I think is also fascinating about this film and so kind of true to life and simultaneously more and less West Wingy is how everyone's personal lives are bleeding into their job oh my god and how that shapes their interactions and how that shapes the information being passed up the chain of command as well, I think is really, really interesting.
12:44You have the night agent, Gabriel Basso. Gabriel Basso. We just call him the night agent. Who's like, he's only got moments on the phone with the president and he's like reminding him that they met at the GA. Nobody fucking cares, Gabriel. Move on. And the way that he summarizes or tries to summarize his discussion with the Russians is accurate but also fails to get across the full sense that he felt on that phone call or that we saw when we saw the Russian faces. So I feel like there's information being lost. There are details being lost.
13:19Chris Hewitt:You would very much hope that this is not the way it would go down with calls being dropped and people being in hard-to-reach bunkers and the president can't reach, say, for example, Trump couldn't reach Putin directly for a quick call. Hey, Vladimir, are you behind this? I do feel like there should have been much more... I would have liked to have seen... That, for me, was the bit that was missing, was the diplomacy angle. We had that one call. And that was it. And that was it. And I kind of felt like the phone should have been turning red, both literally and figuratively, in those conversations happening.
13:48And I know it's a very, very, very short space of time. But still, there's time to make a call. But I thought that the night agent also put a really nice human face on it when he was talking to him. and Elba makes this very, like, what you're describing is surrender, which is an extraordinary male response to this situation. But the fact that the night actually goes, well, you know, to put it in those terms, it's surrender or suicide. It's basically, and that's exactly what he's saying to him. It's like, if you decide to do this, you are basically just flipping over the chessboard. Like, that's it.
14:20We're done. We're finished. Which I thought, that landed with me. Yeah. I just feel like, you know, the president, look, in reality, insanity the president lost nothing by waiting an hour or a day yeah nothing absolutely nothing because if you nuke your enemy a day later you're still nuke your enemy like and that still sends a pretty clear message to the world yeah i think it makes it clear how uncontrolled america is and is seen as right now in the world you know because the the idea of the film is that But just the prospect of America possibly launching its nuclear weapons because our nuclear bomb, one nuclear bomb, has hit the US means that everybody else in the world automatically feels that they have to be ready to launch as well.
15:12So this is the, of course, on one hand, the leadership of being the world's biggest military superpower, unless you count troop numbers, in which case I think China and Russia are bigger. Anyway, but it's also, you know, the flip side of that is they have shown they cannot necessarily be trusted with that power. And I think the war on terror and the wars of this century, of the last 25 years, have kind of shown that America does not always use its power wisely. And then whatever consensus that people felt during, you know, at the end of World War II, rightly or wrongly, or, you know, and through the kind of Cold War, that America was kind of the voice of, to some degree, reason.
15:51Chris Hewitt:Mm-hmm. I think that idea has fallen away. And look, I'm not saying that was always, you know, right. They are the only country on earth to have dropped nuclear bombs twice on a population. They have got involved in lots of illegal wars and lots of extremely shady operations throughout the world, even during those years of the quote-unquote American peace. but they were seen by the majority of people in the world as being mostly a force for good or trying to be a force for order. And something that underpinned and reinforced this kind of, this balance, this world order which obviously now is, I mean, not to turn this into a political podcast but it feels now the very opposite is true.
16:36In fact, I think there was a poll done relatively recently they were talking about, you know, how America's perceived in terms of maintaining or disrupting the world order and the overwhelming feeling now is that America is a danger to the world order. Which is a terrifying place to be. Yeah, it's a weird place to be. But I think this film really shows that kind of loose cannon aspect of America really, really startlingly clearly.
17:01Chris Hewitt:True, but there's a looser cannon in this movie. Somewhere, yeah. It's the person or country who fires the missile at Chicago. And a Luther cannon in the White House. That's true. Okay. But I think we're meant to think that's maybe a North Korean launch. It feels our way, right? Yeah. But it's interesting the way when Greta Lee, she says, yes, it could be North Korea and these are the reasons why, but these are also the reasons why it could easily be Russia. She can rationalize this launch from a number of different places. So it is just an absolute guess as to where it's come from. Yeah. And I get that that's a difficult position for an American president to be in.
17:37I get that. But at the same time, nothing is lost by waiting 22 minutes. You know, nothing is lost by waiting a day. And because this is not a major attack, it is not wiping out their response capability. And that is the fundamental place where nuclear football dudes' argument falls down in the limousine. If it was 30 warheads heading towards every city in the US, that's a different conversation. It's still the end of the world, and you still probably shouldn't do it if you're thinking morally and logically. But you can at least understand the mentality. But you're absolutely right. it makes no sense for them to try and make a knee-jerk snap decision when they don't know who to attack.
18:12Except that... So you think he's done that
18:14Chris Hewitt:by the end of the film? I think... Because the Moses Ingram character, the Greta Lee character, you see them going into the bunker, which is a real place. Yeah. But I'm guessing the one we see in the film is CG, but it is a real... There is a real base underneath the mountain. Is it Cheyenne Mountain? Oh, well, that's where they have the Stargate. I knew that's what I was going to say because actually maybe they're going through the Stargate and that's where they're evacuating. But we know that that's where they're going anyway, because they're in the first wave. But do you think they're going there as a result of, you've only got like an hour to get in before we receive the next payload back?
18:51Well, I think definitely if it hadn't hit Chicago, if it hadn't detonated, and if there hadn't been any kind of subsequent action, there would be no reason for them all to be filing into the mountains. So something bad has definitely gone down. It seems that way. Yeah. And I love the fact that it ends on, where it's ambiguous and it's thought-provoking and it asks questions, but also there's a sense of resigned calm to the end of the film. Like it's a very bleak ending to that film. Very bleak, yeah. It's not quite missed level, but it's not fucking far off. Yeah, it's really great. And I think also the fact that it kind of comes, or I say comes, like we're doing this in a week where Donald Trump has started doing nuclear weapons tests again for the first time in many years.
19:32And this, again, like, and we talked about this when we reviewed it in the regular podcast, it's like the kind of nuclear panic feels like a relic of a bygone era. It's the stuff of the Cuban Missile Crisis. It's the stuff of the Cold War. It's the stuff that inspired James Cameron's entire career. You know, it's like, but this was, you know, Judgment Day is something that now for us, it's films. It's not even new films. It's an old film thing. James Cameron has moved on to environmental concerns, right? You know, even he's moved on from it. So it's something that we've just grown accustomed to.
20:00And people start talking about, you know, nuclear weapons as is, I guess, statistically true that the creation of the nuclear weapons saved more lives than it cost because it has prevented a number of wars. But it now feels that, you know, the doomsday clock is getting closer to midnight and we're all starting to, I think, understandably shit ourselves again. And this film hasn't helped.
20:17Chris Hewitt:I have a huge degree of existential panic about nuclear war or whatever this is, the end of the world, etc., etc. I'm not convinced, but I would not be surprised if in our lifetimes, which will hopefully be a long, long time away, that a nuclear device of some kind is detonated somewhere in the world. Whether it's this, something like this, or whether it's bad actors, terrorists who get hold of a dirty bomb, or whatever, but I would not be surprised if something like that happened in the next 10 to 20 years. Well, there were certainly concerns that tactical nuclear deployment in Ukraine was something that people were definitely worried about.
20:54Chris Hewitt:Absolutely, there was a real, real worry about that. India and Pakistan, I believe, is mentioned in this film, that that could easily become, because obviously tactical, strategic, nuclear things are very different, but it's still terrifying. It's all terrifying. You don't want to be on the end of any nuclear device. No. One thing I did actually want to mention is the GBIs. Let's talk GBIs, because there's a whole thing, and it's kind of... The BGs? No. So the GBI, the ground-based interceptors, which is the bullet that hits the bullet. Yeah, or not in this case. Or not in this case. Two go up, one doesn't separate, and the other one misses.
21:26Now, there's a famous episode of the West Wing where there is a missile defense system, and they're trying to get it to hit the missile and it misses by something like 54 miles. And it's likened to Charlie Brown and the football, Leo, because it just doesn't work. But the American government has actually issued a statement about this. They've talked about this. And this is not the true, it's been getting 100 % success rate for the last 10 years.
21:47Chris Hewitt:Chinny Reckon. Indeed. The White House spokesman, Chinny Reckon and Tutankhamen said... And Catherine Bigelow said, well, no, because we've spoken to experts in this field. And they said, no, it is a coin toss. it's like a little over 50 % accuracy. That scene gave me the heebie-jeebie eyes. Exactly. But this is the thing, if you are America, of course you're never going to admit that, oh yeah, our nuclear, it doesn't really work. Like, 50-50 is a bit of a good... Of course you're not going to say that. You're going to say it knocks them down 100 % of the time, every time. But that's... Come on, fine.
22:17That's literally what the Pentagon said. They claimed it was 100 % successful.
22:21Chris Hewitt:Whereas it's more like Sex Panther by Odeon. 60 % of the time, it works every time. Yeah, that scene, I mean, it's just this sheer madness. I spoke to Catherine Bigelow and Rebecca Ferguson for the main pod, and we talked a little bit about that, about how the GBI, I mean, they have so few, if this is true, they have so few GBIs compared to the amount of nuclear warheads in the world. I would like that to be inferred, please. I would like it to be the other way around. But they also still don't work, and you've still got, you know, that's 50 billion that results in maybe 60 % efficiency and I did read something today saying actually the film is being generous with 60 % but you know so if you're talking about like 300 billion to build something more reliable I mean how are you going to afford that?
23:13You sort of bail out Argentina and stuff
Read the full transcript
23:15Chris Hewitt:I'd feel more comfortable if we had way more GBIs at least to increase the odds of maybe some of them hitting a nuclear missile? You'd want to be able to chuck up at least 10 per missile, I'm saying, just to cover your bases. Or we can improve it. Like AI, I'm sure AI will help us. We'll appeal to AI's better nature and we'll say, please stop the war. The entity. I refer you to war games. Where's the entity in all this? That's what I want to know. Yeah, well, who do you think launched the missile in the first place? Holy shit. Blowing this thing wide open. Yeah. Yeah, Ethan Hunt has failed in his mission.
23:54Chris Hewitt:Should we talk about the movie itself? Because we've been talking an awful lot about the nuclear war and death and all that stuff. All the fun stuff. And obviously that will be part of the conversation about the movie itself. But the ending. Okay, well, I know we talked about the ending, but a lot of people have been disappointed by the ending. They've been disappointed that you don't get to see, first of all, Chicago being blown to smithereens. Which I don't want to see that, by the way. I don't want to see Caitlin Deaver looking up at the sky going, what is that? And then this massive fucking cloud of flame and smoke blowing her to smithereens.
24:30Chris Hewitt:I don't really want that, to be honest. But a lot of people do. They want some closure. They don't want the ambiguous ending that we get. Yeah, it's cinematic blue balls, isn't it? Because you get edged three times and then you don't get the payoff that you're hoping for. It's quite obsessing. I get it. I get it. The first time I watched this movie, the only time I've watched this movie so far I thought oh this is brilliant the first 45 minutes I thought this is the best picture winner right here this is extraordinary this is I don't my palms are sweaty knees are weak arms are heavy has vomit on his sweater already all of that stuff I got the lyrics so wrong there but it doesn't matter you know I was absolutely just oh my god this is like this is like a fever dream this is a waking nightmare and it's just so beautifully directed.
25:19Chris Hewitt:You get this sense of building tension and panic, but controlled panic. And it's tremendous. And it takes you right up until the moment that the missile potentially explodes in Chicago. And then I was like, what's next? What is next? Because I didn't know. I didn't know that it was going to just replay, but from a different angle. I didn't know it was going to rash him on the shit out of everything. And then the second time I thought, okay, well, they must be doing it again the third time because we haven't really seen Idris Elba yet and he's going to have his big moments. But what did you make of that?
25:52Chris Hewitt:What did you make of Catherine Bigelow and Noah Oppenheim's decision not to show beyond the point of the missile strike? I really liked it. It was abrupt. Like the film just stopped and I'm like, wait, did I miss something? What just happened? Okay, it is abrupt, but I think the experience would be abrupt for millions of people. I think also it was really effective because what else do you do? The problem is, you know, the silos opening and the missiles coming up has been used as a cheap sort of tension tactic in so many different thrillers of the 90s and 90s and before. You know, that I think has lost a lot of its power to scare us on its own.
26:37Chris Hewitt:I don't know. Final Reckoning did it? I know it did, yeah. That was pretty sobering. well that's the first time in a while though but it had been done a lot back in the day and I think it's also just we've seen it, we know what that looks like we even know what the silos opening all over and just missile after missile after missile coming out looks like and it's hard to improve on the Doctor Strangelove angle where you play all of that over Will Mead again I don't know what you'd do to make it as horrifying as it should be without making it lurid yeah exactly short of literally sort of going for that you know James Cameron like kids playing in the playground and look I'm not saying that was lurid I think it was incredibly effective but that's that's the level that you need to do I don't know how it would have improved things I don't know what it would have added to the film to actually see yeah it would have cheapened the whole thing it's awkward I wanted it because I wanted that catharsis like grim as it is but it would have been lurid and no one needs to see the kind of deep impact style like annihilation of a city.
27:44I think actually it's more powerful it's more thought-provoking it's more disturbing the way it ends because I did the thing same thing I did with The Mist I just sat kind of eyes on focus staring at the credits until Netflix said would you like to watch this next? It's the new season of The Witcher I'm like shut up Netflix! But I wanted to just sit with it and be seated with it and just be there and just think about it. We have noticed you're suffering an existential crisis. Would you like, is it cake? To be honest, the right answer is Brooklyn Nine-Nine, which I literally had to watch three episodes of after watching this just to kind of get back on an evening.
28:18Just to get the House of Dynamite out of your hair. Well, I watched Nobody Wants This. I literally needed to fire up something comedic. So I was just like, I am just full of existential horror. So you can do comedy. Yeah, if I need to.
28:29Chris Hewitt:The Chicago thing, I just don't think it would have fit with the rest of the movie as well because the rest of the movie is basically there's this giant, as we said in a regular podcast, conference call between several different locations and people being patched in and something to cut away to Chicago. If you were to show the devastation in Chicago, you could have shown it maybe on a screen. It would have been interesting to see a media response to this, how the media would have covered this. I think, but then... But then you've got to change the timeline completely. You've got to move away from the real-time response because there's no way the media can be on the ground because if they had been on the ground, they wouldn't be there anymore.
29:04No, no, no. I don't mean that.
29:06Chris Hewitt:You know what I mean? If you had shown afterwards, like the media responded to, Chicago isn't there anymore. But then that shows that there is an afterwards. Yes. I would have liked to have seen an afterwards. But I would not have liked to have seen Chicago be employed to Smith and Rains. But I think you could show it in a different way. I was trying to think, like maybe there's a way to like, sort of zoom out to a satellite view and you just see the spots of light as missiles launch and launch and launch all over the world. But even that, given the almost clinically up close focus, given the incredibly close focus of the rest of the film I think that also would have been less effective but also this ending is ambiguous enough that there is hope to it not a lot of hope but there is hope that there is a resolution that this isn't literally the end of the world that call-aheads will prevail and this is something we kind of touched on a little bit the most horrifying thing about this film as you mentioned I can't remember if you said it here on the regular podcast was that this is the best case scenario because you have competent people and positions, level-headed people for the most part.
30:07Chris Hewitt:Yeah. And a president who seems thoughtful and balanced and wants to do the right thing. And then you look at the absolute shit show that is, and I don't just mean America, I mean, let's be honest, of the world at the moment. And you can't help thinking if this happened in real life, we wouldn't even last 18 fucking minutes. Like, Jesus.
30:26Chris Hewitt:But that's another thing as well. The film you were talking about earlier on, you wanted maybe a little bit more of communication between the White House and the Kremlin or the White House and Pyongyang or wherever. Yeah. And one of the problems of it is that we can't have that moment in Dr. Strangelove, that amazing phone call between the president and the Russian president, you know, where he basically goes, well, Dimitri, you know, okay, what I'm going to tell you, you may want to be sitting down kind of thing. You can't have that because the timeline is so truncated now. And you can't have that moment in Failsafe either.
31:06Chris Hewitt:The other great nuclear war panic drama of 1964, Cedric Lumet's movie, where they basically decide to trade an American city for a Russian city. So Failsafe is the accidentally launching nuclear missile at, if I remember rightly, Moscow. And because the times are so much greater back then, it would take so much longer for a missile to travel to Moscow. They have time to get in touch with Moscow, with Russia, and go, all right, we don't want you to retaliate. This was an accident. We've taken out Moscow. We're very, very sorry. Please don't fire all your missiles at us. Here's an idea. We're going to blow up New York ourselves.
31:53Chris Hewitt:We're going to shoot one of our own missiles at New York by guns, and that's basically fail safe. And obviously Dr. Strangelove takes it to the nth degree and it is mutually assured destruction, etc. I don't really have a point anymore, but I'm just thinking because the timelines are so truncated now, I was surprised and nuclear war scenario really surprised me because I assumed that once an ICBM was fired, it would take roughly as long to travel halfway around the world as a commercial airliner. 11 hours. I thought you would have loads of time. I thought we'd have time. I'm a hypersonic now. they're hypersonic.
32:29Chris Hewitt:They go up into space. They go sub-atmospheric, whatever the word is. Sub-orbital. Sub-orbital, that's it. Thank you. They go up into space, they go sub-orbital, then they come back and suddenly it's like, oh no, it's half an hour. And from the point that we can't stop it, it's 18 minutes. But this is why this is so effective. And actually the thing that really got me, well, two things actually. One was obviously Rebecca Ferguson's character when she's telling her husband, just drive, just drive, stay away from any kind of urban areas and just go. I love you, you know. But the other thing was Jared Harris talking to Caitlin Deaver.
32:57because by the time he gets hold of her, it's too late. There's the what? Is it something like eight minutes at that point? There's no evacuating her, so he just doesn't tell her. And you just see that, and then he just walks off the roof. And it's just, that destroyed me.
33:14Chris Hewitt:And you know from the first segment that something has gone horribly wrong with the Jared Harris character. Yeah, he disappears halfway through the call. Yeah, and there's like a gunshot or something. Something happens and people are shouting and there's a bit of commotion. a bit of mayhem and then of course it doesn't fill it in to the third one and you're going as he's having a conversation with his daughter it's like oh I thought he was going to grab someone's gun and shoot himself but he obviously walks off and another couple of really there's a really couple of really chilling moments one is the the Rebecca Ferguson call to her husband and her son just drive as you said absolutely heartbreaking and chilling the fact that they stay knowing that in any second wave Washington and the White House will be among the premier targets of any retaliatory wave.
34:04Chris Hewitt:And the braveness of that, they don't have to chase Clark, get out of jail card, get out of jail free card by going down below the White House or wherever else, wherever it is he goes, I think it is below the White House he goes, to, in theory, minimum safe distance. That's incredibly chilling as well. That moment where she and her co-worker kind of hold hands as the missile gets closer and you just get this incredible moment of real human impact. But the moment that really chilled me was when Night Agent is in the bunker with Jason Clark. And Jason Clark goes, okay, right, I've got to call this organization now to get their diggers ready.
34:41Chris Hewitt:And he's like, why? Well, you know, to dig us out in the aftermath. And you're like, fuck me. I mean, they think of everything. They think of everything except destroying the nuclear weapons. Superman had the right idea in Superman 4, I swear to God, that was the best thing in that movie. Throw them into the sun. I fucking love that. I think, yeah, I also love that this is something that hasn't been talked about in reviews just because people have word count limits, but it's not just one story per, you know, third of the movie. Yeah, it's like three or four layered on top of each other. And you're getting, you know, you have, you kind of have Tracy Letts kind of talking in the background and you don't really properly hear him fully when Rebecca Ferguson and Herc team are dealing with stuff.
35:28And then you hear him fully later on. And that kind of layering, I mean, just as a matter of putting this film together, is beautifully done. And I love the fact that because POTUS is audio only, it's just a black screen all the way through. You don't see him until the final segment. I think that's really smart.
35:45Chris Hewitt:Yeah. A lot of people thought, I mean, I've talked to a few people about this, and they were like, oh, it's building up this big reveal of who the president is. But we know who the president is. He sounds alarmingly like Idris Elba. And we do see him in the second segment, but we do see him through a door. So you know it's him, but I don't think there's like this big heroic, hey, it's Idris Elba, everything's going to be all right. Yeah, he is not cancelling the apocalypse. No, he's not. No. Sadly not. Stack of Pentecost was not available. Wouldn't it be great if this was like a heads of state crossover movie and he was calling the British prime minister and it was also Idris Elba.
36:18Chris Hewitt:How do we think John Cena's American president would respond to this? I mean, I hope he would have done better than this, actually. He wasn't a bad guy. He seemed quite love and peace, you know? Yeah, I think he'd go full water cobra. It's just the thing is, in anything like this, I think you and I in particular, Helen, are trained to think, what would Jed Bartlett do? And his response would absolutely have been, I'm not going to nuke anyone, especially when I don't know who I'm supposed to be nuking. What are you talking about? Yeah, this is insanity. Get the fuck out of here and get me some answers on who did this.
36:50A proportional response.
36:51Chris Hewitt:These are plans, I'm guessing, again from nuclear war scenario, these are plans that were essentially drawn up in the Cold War. These were drawn up in the 1950s and the 1960s when Russia was the bad guy. And the idea was that you would absolutely just wipe the slate clean and just wipe the earth clean. And I don't know how much that these protocols have been updated. And they need to be updated. Of course, this doesn't take into account, you know, rogue agents and rogue states and rogue nations who might want to launch something at the state. I mean, the former Soviet Union leaked nuclear material like a sieve at one point.
37:27Chris Hewitt:Or fundamentalists who do want to trigger the end of the world for religious reasons. You know, you're not taking into account any of those in these scenarios. But at the same time, I think we can dial it back a little bit. I think over a thousand nuclear missiles is probably a little bit too much. It's probably overkill. But I mean, the worrying thing really is that 18 minutes, 19 minutes, it doesn't give us enough time to get to Greenland. That's true. And that's a problem. Well, where would not be, I mean, everywhere would be affected. In a full scale, all out nuclear Armageddon, there wouldn't be many places on the earth.
37:58Chris Hewitt:There would be nuclear winter, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, there wouldn't be any, would there? But I would say Australia, New Zealand, a lot of Africa. I'm sorry, did you not read On the Beach? Basically, in that story, this is a spoiler for On the Beast. It's a very, very old book and film. And film. So the idea is nuclear war has happened mostly between the USSR at that point and the USA. It has mostly, therefore, been a northern hemisphere thing, but they went all out. So every year, the trade winds, the El Nino and so on, bring more and more and more of the radiation site. I mean, it's already there, but it's getting more and more every year, so that everyone is just waiting to die.
38:38And so we're in like Melbourne and like maybe southernmost city, major city on earth. Yeah. They're losing like Johannesburg. They're losing Rio. They're losing. But you could build shelters.
38:50Chris Hewitt:You'd have time to build shelters. You'd be totally fine. It'd be fine. We're going to Australia, guys. We're going to Australia. The thing is, we won't get any warning. And that's a problem. For getting to Australia, yes. People will need this podcast. That is true. That is true. We should be on the list. We should be on the list. my name I should be on the list what would happen if two of us got the message and one of us didn't I'll be honest Chris we'd leave you for one we don't need him and then it'd be like who's going to book the talent in the bunker it's like oh shit we do need him damn it I knew he brought something to the podcast no what happens we'd turn up at the show and be like Chris you'll understand this problem where we just booked too many guests we're going to have to turn you away he wouldn't understand that problem I'd be like I can do it I can do it we can squeeze them in one more yeah I mean I think I think we I think we would be essential personnel yeah without a doubt people would need us yeah I don't think that's how it works but I'd like to think doctors nurses teachers podcasters architectures architectures architectures yeah yes me failing that's impossible I think I might have blown my audition to get in I think you're done you have to laugh because it's the end of the world and what else do you do what would you do what would you do apart from being blown to ash if you had 10 minutes if the alarm went off I've got so many shows on my watch list I need to get through at least some of them yeah I mean a family zoom call I guess would you listen to this podcast no would you go out listening to the Empire podcast I mean why change the habit of a lifetime Yeah.
40:34Chris Hewitt:Bangly bang.
40:39Chris Hewitt:Would you go full sort of bacchanalian? So, um... Go full aristocrats. Yeah. Then try and time it to perfection. It's a mushroom cloud that erupts behind you. No, no, what you do is you immediately, immediately go and get your Blu-ray of Endgame and work out the timing so that the world ended just with the snap. Oh, that's amazing. Infinity War. Well, it depends on which snap you wanted. obviously I would want the Infinity War snap I'm assuming you would prefer the endgame snap I would prefer the endgame snap I'd be like Thanos was right I don't have time to watch 37 MCU movies this is a disaster going to the nuclear bunker because obviously we would be essential personnel whoop whoop carrying like leaving my wife behind leaving everything behind just carrying my MCU box set MCU box set your microphone under one arm so these are the tools of my trade
41:34Chris Hewitt:so in Steve DeJarnatt's fantastic 1988 movie Miracle Mile have you guys ever seen that film no I haven't I've read about it so it's an amazing amazing film it is a bit of a fake out so the first half hour 40 minutes or so is a love story between Anthony Edwards and Mare winning them now beautifully in real life they are now married like 30 years later 30 years later they reconnected and stuff yeah yeah 30 years 20 something years yeah something like that whatever and you know it's a beautiful love story in real life hopefully we won't have the same ending as in Miracle Mile and then he has arranged a date with her late one night and he's in a diner and he hears a phone ring outside the diner pay phone ring he picks up the pay phone and it's a guy in a nuclear bunker American soldier who's got the wrong number and he's like dad he's calling he thinks he's calling his dad he's like dad we've shot our wad we got about 50 and change before they shoot theirs back at us this is it this is all over and Anthony Edwards a bit shaken by this goes into the diner and who is there but Tasha Yar from Star Trek The Next Generation who can verify some of the stuff that he has said and so she's like oh shit this is actually happening so she gets the hell out of Dodge a whole lot of people get the hell out of Dodge Anthony Edwards has fallen in love with Mary Winningham and decides to stay behind and try to, because they're not sure if it's true, for one thing.
43:04Chris Hewitt:He stays behind to try and find her and, you know, to protect her and to get her out of the city. And Brian Thompson is a bold and noble helicopter pilot who's promised to come back for them. And so the end of the movie, Kurt Fuller, my God, this cast is an amazing cast. At the end of the movie, it kind of becomes clear, or at least people panic and there's rioting in the streets and people go full back and alley and there's fucking in the streets and rioting and all sorts of stuff and Kurt Fuller goes nuts and he's taking drugs and he's drinking, you know, loads of champagne, etc, etc, etc. What I'm saying is, would you do that?
43:40I mean, now is the time to start drinking does have a certain ring to it. What? Yeah. With the nuclear weapons in the air.
43:47Chris Hewitt:Fire! No, nuclear weapons! But I don't know. Yeah. I imagine a lot of people would just end up sitting down in a kind of a bit of a funk. because like, you know, no matter how much fun you think you could squeeze into that time, I don't think you'd be having fun. No. You'd just feel a bit sick. You'd probably spend it on the toilet. Would you run? Would you try and outrun it? Like, run to Greenland. I'm not the Flash. I don't think that would work. Like, we're in the north. Just start digging a hole. Like, dig a bunker. Like, fuck it. Just get a spade. Right, come on, dig, dig. Get on the ground.
44:20Chris Hewitt:You guys have got the secret access code for the Bauer Media bunker, right? I mean... not me no me baby no Helen as a freelance unfortunately would not be allowed into the bunker go and be the editor at large run around there run around there at large are the key words at this point Helen get lost Helen Helen has a wide jurisdiction she's been scattered to all four corners of London as we shelter in place which screening room do you think would hold out best that one under the Odeon the Odeon West End the underground one oh yes that's a very good one you can probably get through an entire movie there before you die this is a genius see Helen has just hit upon our apocalypse survival plan we need to go we've got everything we need we've got soft drinks we've got popcorn yeah the Odeon West End it's a subterranean screening room like if you're going to shelter anywhere that is the place to do it that that is we have a plan that is absolutely wild this is really dark it is quite dark I mean this has bummed me out this has bummed you out we're surviving and we're gonna get to watch great movies as well what have we got well the only print we've got down here is Tron Aries no bring on the nuclear fire James where are you going you're running back up the stairs alright anything else you wanna say about the movie before we wrap this up any performances you liked in particular any sequences you liked Will of Fitzgerald needed more to do I mean I appreciate that like there was a lot of blink and you'll miss it stuff in here Greta Leigh didn't have a lot to do Moses Ingram didn't have a lot to do but I thought that Will of Fitzgerald really didn't have a lot yeah which I thought was a bit of a shame bit of a shame yeah I thought yeah I mean Rebecca Ferguson probably slayed me the most or Jared Harris I guess after that Rebecca Ferguson's incredible but just when she it's the way when she gets off the phone and she just has that moment of well, I've done all I can and I'll never see them again.
46:26And the micro expression where she's like, and then she's about to, and then she kind of gets a lid on it and she's just like... There's a tear and then she's just,
46:32Chris Hewitt:no, completely professional locking that shit down. Yeah. I mean, I thought this film was absolutely devastating, but I have to say I did think there was slight diminishing returns in the structure. I agree. And I think some of the dramatic tension, in fact, maybe even a lot of the dramatic tension seeped out of the movie as a result of that decision. Well, the first segment is the most powerful by far. Absolutely. I was really fascinated by those little blanks being filled in and we got to see why the president wasn't on screen in the first couple of segments and we got to see exactly, you know, what was driving Tracy Letts and all that stuff.
47:06Chris Hewitt:And we haven't even talked about Anthony Ramos over in the, in the sort of, you know, missile place. Because it ends with him, like him throwing up, essentially, doesn't it? Yeah. That segment does, yeah. And I think that's probably what we would all be doing, actually. Yeah. Yeah. That's fun. Hey. It's a fun time at the movies. If this were to happen right now, and we got notice, say 30 minutes notice, that London's about to be turned to ash, and we decided to implement Operation Save Empire Podcast above all else. Right. That's the hashtag. Sure. Yeah. You don't get the secret dossier I sent you?
47:44Chris Hewitt:Damn it. And we went to the London, the Odeon West End. Sure. the four films on there at the moment that we would have to watch for the rest of our lives for at least months before they come and dig us out Springsteen Deliver Me From Nowhere Deliver Me From Something I mean that's Come Friendly Bombs and Fallen at least the music the music's good that's true that's just good music but then you'd have like six months of me going he doesn't look like Bruce Springsteen we would he doesn't sound like Bruce Springsteen it's a really interesting creative decision that they've made there. Don't you think?
48:19Chris Hewitt:Don't you think, guys? Come on, what else is showing? Chainsaw Man, the movie. And that is subtitled? Oh, I haven't seen that yet. Anime. That'd be good. We love anime. We could get into anime. That'd be our chance. There'd be nothing else to get into. Black Phone 2. Okay, we like that. I mean, yeah. It's fine. You'll love it in six months after you've seen it for the 150th time. What should we watch today? Black Phone 2. It's a grabber. And yes, Tron Ares. oh wow that is brutal but hey would we have no we wouldn't have wifi would we but oh oh oh we've got we've got 30 minutes that's the definition of the lucky ones are the first to die we can download a house of dynamite onto my phone and watch that yeah three little letters for you guys EMP so this is interesting so in the Stanley K.
49:15Brown series paradise, which has no spoilers for that, but what's interesting is that the nuclear football has two flavours, and it's not the kind of medium, you know, rare, medium, and well-done options that we see in this. It's basically one is all-out nuclear strike, and the other is a global EMP to, instead of striking them with nuclear weapons, it's to basically revert the world, essentially, back to the Stone Age. And I thought that was quite an interesting wrinkle, that that actually is a much more sensible response to this. Shut everything down. Which one would mean I don't need to see Tron Aries again?
49:45I mean, definitely well both well both really I am for EMP and hey
49:51Chris Hewitt:you can't spell Empire oh god without EMP oh on that note I think that's it for our House of Dynamite spoiler special less spoiler special and more group therapy session if we're all I feel better about AR chances of survival I'd like to see what an all popcorn sprite diet would do to me I wouldn't I mean let's be honest the first 30 years of my life were pretty much an all popcorn you are perfectly primed for this and yeah I hope you enjoyed it I hope you enjoyed the bits where we all stared into space and thought about the horrible inevitability of death so that was fun yeah alright okay well thanks to my two colleagues of such lethal cunning goodbye forever Helen O 'Hara I'm off to join the CND and that will keep you safe goodbye forever James Dyer toodle boom toodle boom why didn't you do that why didn't I do that because your your head's away with it that's it it's already gone it's all over for me and it's goodbye for me I'm off to compile the ultimate nuclear panic watch list for the time we're going to be spending together in the Odeon West End it's going to have threads on it You're going to love that.
51:15Chris Hewitt:It's going to have Miracle Mile. It's going to have Terminator. All the Terminators. Yep. Pretty much. It's going to have A House of Dynamite. It's going to have the depressing ghibli one about the fireflies. Yeah. Grave of the fireflies. Greenland. Greenland. Well, Greenland's not nuclear. It's not. No. But it's, you know, apocalyptic and bunkery. And it would also be the best movie on that list. Yeah. Wow. I'm telling James Cameron on you. Wow. James Cameron has seen Greenland and he acknowledges his undeniable power. I don't want to die before Greenland migration comes out. Call the whole thing off.
51:56Chris Hewitt:Right now, people have their fingers hovering over the nuclear missile button. The nuclear missile button, the red nuclear button are going, wait a second, hear me out. Greenland migration hasn't come out yet. If we just keep bumping the release date. Yes, yes, absolutely. There's got to be something they all care about. They probably want to see Wicked for good. They probably want to see Spider-Man across the other... What's not across? Beyond. Beyond the Spider-Verse. You know? We can keep them from killing us all for years to come just by making great movies. But you know what, Helen? You know what, James?
52:31Chris Hewitt:Also, I've been thinking about this a lot, and Catherine Bigelow said she made this movie in a way to kind of wake people up to the dangers of nuclear weapons. and I think that it could work. I think that the people who are in power, various governments around the world, I'm not going to name anyone in particular, I'm not going to stinkle anyone out, I think that they will all look at this movie, see the dangers that can be wreaked by nuclear weapons and I think they will see the error of their ways and disarm and change and bring us all a brighter future. Of course, I don't think that. We're all gonna die.
53:11Thanks for listening.
53:12Chris Hewitt:See you next time. Bye.
From the publisher
Kathryn Bigelow's A House Of Dynamite is, officially, A Lot. An ultra-intense drill down into what might happen should a single, unattributed nuclear missile be launched at the United States of America, no movie has been more specifically designed to generate conversations about nuclear weapons and the future of humanity than this. Unless you count Superman IV: The Quest For Peace, of course. And so it went with our Chris Hewitt, Helen O'Hara, and James Dyer, who stopped building their nuclear bunkers long enough to pop into the podbooth to have a long and, hopefully, therapeutic chat about the movie, their nuclear fears and, crucially, their plan for keeping the Empire Podcast going in the event of a nuclear apocalypse. By turns serious, thought-provoking, and very, very silly, it's a conversation we hope won't keep you awake at night. Enjoy?