BenDavid Grabinski On Mike & Nick & Nick & Alice: An Empire Spoiler Special Interview

0:14Chris Hewitt:Hello Pod, I'm Chris Hewitt and welcome to another Empire Podcast spoiler special, interview special. I was much taken recently by Ben David Grabinski's action comedy Mike and Nick and Nick and Alice, which stars Vince Vaughn as Nick, a gangster whose best friend, mob enforcer Quickdraw Mike, played by James Marsden, is having an affair with Nick's wife, Asa Gonzalez's Alice. Which is the kind of thing that tends to cut life expectancy short, if you're Mike. Although complications ensue when, via a handy time machine, a future version of Nick, also played by Vaughn, appears and does his level best to keep Mike alive over the course of one wild and unpredictable night.

0:58Chris Hewitt:Funny and inventive, but with an unexpected emotional layer, Mike and Nick and Nick and Alice is the kind of original film we keep saying we want to see more of, and since it debuted on Disney Plus or Hulu in the States a couple weeks ago, I've been keen to talk to Grabinski, the film's writer-director, about how he pulled off a snappy, action-heavy, sci-fi-tinged character comedy. As ever, spoilers abound, so please listen only if you have seen Mike and Nick and Nick and Alice. And if you have, you'll probably expect me to ask a load of questions about some of the quirkier plot turns. The opening sequence featuring Ben Schwartz singing Billy Joel, for example, or Dolph Lundgren's cameo as a cannibal assassin, or the scene where each of the principals reveals an unlikely passion for the Gilmore Girls.

1:48Chris Hewitt:It turned out not to be that type of spoiler special interview though as Grabinski and I focused on the emotional heart of the film, its connection to his real life, grief and a climactic scene which turns an unlikely Oasis song into a real tearjerker. I do ask some plot stuff, I'm only human after all, but if you want to know why that Billy Joel song or why the Gilmore Girls I'm sorry to disappoint you but I really enjoyed talking to the sharp perceptive Krabinski although there were some connection issues now and again resulting in distorted audio that I'll try to cut where possible and I hope you enjoyed listening to him shed some light on his movie enjoy then get a time machine travel back in time an hour or so and enjoy it again or you could just rewind the pod or restart it it's up to you either way enjoy Ben David Grabinski, welcome to the Empire Podcast Spoiler Special for Mike and Nick and Nick and Alice.

2:48Chris Hewitt:That's a fun title to say. Is that kind of part of how you came up with those character names? Well, yeah, I first wanted to do kind of a very slight homage to Mikey and Nicky, the Elaine May movie. um and then when it was forming itself as kind of a uh some very complicated marital situations uh the bob and carol and ted and alice thing all kind of came together where like i had coincidentally named her alice and i think i had some epiphany when i was like oh well the characters are mike and nick and nick and alice so i can kind of do the mikey and nicky title and kind of do the Bob and Carol and Ted Nallis title.

3:31And, you know, as much as I enjoy someone watching this movie really cold, I did come across someone who watched it very cold and somehow had dialed in so much on the title that they were expecting it kind of to be a one-to-one tonally movie to Bob and Carol and Ted Nallis. And I am sorry that my movie is much dumber than that. I was not working in the same sophisticated realms as that film was

3:58Chris Hewitt:over here in the UK I'm sure you know this you're a film nerd like me we have something called Rita Sue and Bob 2 have you ever heard of that film no it's a sort of kitchen sink love triangle thing from the early 1980s really good film check it out if you have this is going into my watch list right now it is nothing like your film Ben David nothing like it whatsoever but yeah stick it on your watch list Rita Sue and Bob too well as you'll probably realize I love all kinds of movies so I don't require my movie any movie I watch to be just like my movie and to be fair not a lot of things are in my opinion this is very very true indeed so talk me through the process of writing this because when you have a time machine and time travel at the heart of a film I imagine that gives you a lot of freedom but also it straight jackets you in a way as well what were the what were the biggest challenges in terms of story and plot that you had to overcome well you know the thing the challenge was really just about keeping it more spare because i wanted to my priority was to make a one night gone wrong movie more so than making a time machine movie like i wanted to make a time machine movie where the machine blew up and anyone who can really get into the details of it is dead because the time machine is just an excuse to create the emotional specificity of okay i get one last chance to be around my dickhead self and knowing everything i know about him and that night try to go speed run on redemption you know um because like something that we don't usually get to do i mean the way i always say it is like back to the future only has time travel because of the question the emotional question which is what would it be like to hang out with my parents when they were my age in high school what were they like yeah and the time machine in this is just for the question what if i realized too late that i sucked and and ruin everyone's life around me and i got one chance in one night to hopefully fix that and that's it so it's like you're trying to do a one night wrong buddy action comedy about regret and grief and redemption uh and then the time machine gives them the opportunity and then it blows up so we're you hopefully by blowing it up you're letting the audience know that this is not a movie where they're going to just keep redoing things.

6:41If someone's getting in a fight, that fight matters. It's not like they're just going to do the fight a second time. There's two different versions of this movie, and the one that you might maybe expect something that's more in a Rick and Morty manic kind of energy is the constant doing things. It's just like, we're going to use it again, we're going to use it again, we're going to use it again. It's like, oh, there's three guys know now there's four guys now there's five guys like i i wanted to take and sort of put my opportunities and choices into a kind of a more digestible bag uh instead of making it feel like it is because it is insane an insane movie but you have to create some sort of guardrails for yourself or else it's just it could be a three-hour movie and just by the end of it there's 80 versions of each character and you know it's just madness and i didn't want to get that mad

7:39Chris Hewitt:it's it's really interesting as well because you have vince and fince wildly different characterizations future nick is only six months older than than present nick give or take a couple weeks i guess uh and yet he's undergone a lot of change a lot of growth in that time how did that dictate how Finn's attacked both of those characters and approached both those characters and how you directed them as both of those characters well I think that it's like a very clear demarcation point like you know if you take Scrooge at the end of the story and Scrooge at the top of the story those are drastically different people but for them that's really like a span of 8 hours you know I mean it's like this very uh high stylized journey because someone's seeing their past, their future, learning the error of their ways but on the same hand when Mike died Nick thought he knew himself and when Mike died he felt awful and realized that it didn't make him feel any better and it made him realize he was a fucking shit and then he finds out that Alice is pregnant and Mike isn't going to be around to raise this kid and his friend, he no longer has his friend around, even if they'd gotten so fucked up and so estranged, he's just been living in regret for six months.

9:11And that's a lot of time to be living in regret and every day waking up, realizing what the fuck did I do? Like he did this thing very impulsively. It's like he found out about the affair and within 12 hours got all these things in motion that were going to lead to Mike's death. And he thought it would be satisfying and it wasn't. And, you know, in life, there's a lot of times where people can make really bad mistakes. And just by virtual reality itself, you just either have to live with them or learn from them, but you can't undo them. so it's like this is gonna be a guy who's gonna be an aa for the rest of his life or some equivalent of it and just like you know just not just he's just a fucking mess and and the movie is just like well what if you did get a chance to redo it and the clarity that he has is just very lucid you know he's like why the fuck did i kill this guy i didn't even love alice anymore i'd been a really horrible husband maybe what he did is fucked up but did i have to get a mean by a cannibal so when he's like living in that emotion the way i always describe it is like this is like the sequel to like the most dark nihilistic um you know crime ending like it's not it's not as it would the ending of like the this story without a time machine it's not like as bad as like the long good friday where it's just like how doomed they are but there's that thing at the end of mikey and nicky where you're just seeing this close-up of peter falk i'm always wondering like what is he thinking does he think that oh fuck why did i just let spoiler alert he's like why did i let my friend die like you know my friend now is kind of a jerk but you know he's sitting there in that house you know slamming the door when the assassin comes to kill him and what is he going to think in six months you know what is he going to think in six minutes is is he gonna is he gonna be haunted by letting this happen or is he gonna move on yeah and i'm just wondering if he was haunted and if he wishes that he had tried to fix things what would he do it's not it's not literally that yeah but it's just sort of kind of a it's just sort of a psychological exercise just thinking about these characters at the end of these nihilistic endings whether it's you know mikey nicky or chinatown or whatever yeah just what happens six months later if uh the world of the movie is a little dopey in a sense where you can be like oh yeah and we we loan money to a guy and he built a time machine with it so uh we're gonna use that you know um it's it's a combination of what i think is hopefully relatable emotional shit and also kind of goofball stuff.

12:10I mean, I gotta, you know, I have a guy who built a time machine and he never should have borrowed money from the mob in the first place to do it. I wouldn't recommend any scientist borrowing money from the mob to make a time machine. I just think it's gonna end poorly. And Alice tells him, you know, in some ways he's the dumbest character in the movie. I think the movie's filled with a lot of lovable idiots, but Simon... borrowing money from the mob to build a time machine and thinking that it would all work out is um not not the smartest thing someone's done in a science fiction movie that is very very true

12:44Chris Hewitt:i am fascinated now to see uh mike and nick and alice which i imagine would be the prequel to this movie which just ends with mike being eaten by dolph lundgren whilst whilst nick has this existential awakening as well. You're right. Yeah, it's like, you know, everyone in, you know, Nick wakes up and realizes Mike's gone and he was eaten by a cannibal. And then when he goes to the funeral, Alice tells him she's pregnant and he's like, uh-oh. Yeah. And the thing that's really interesting about the specificity of this story to me is you would know like this is a dumb hypothetical but if i was mad at my friend and framed him and he got eaten by a cannibal and and i heard that news and instantly felt like there's no vomit and like i made a huge mistake i would then know that if I recreate a similar event for my younger self, so he can see what Mike's death would make him feel like, that he would realize he didn't want it to happen.

14:06Because the only way they can do a speed run on redemption with a present-day Nick is by putting him through the emotional rollercoaster of what he thinks would be satisfaction or catharsis, but instead immediately makes him feel empty inside. So, You know, instead of trying to plead with him and convince him of how bad he's going to feel if Mike dies, they create a scenario where he witnesses it. And then lives in it and feels it. And it's a pretty mean prank. But, you know, it had altruistic reasons.

14:40Chris Hewitt:Well, listen, it works. And I love also the future Nick is really scrambling once he's in the present. but he has the wherewithal to go oh that special effects guy I know from five months down the line I'll go to him so he begins to put a plan in place but a lot of the time he's just improvising wildly on this night yeah the only thing that he when he came back was he thought alright I know where he is at this point we're going to find him, we're going to put him in a trunk while he's in this trunk I'm going to pitch this plan to these people what we're going to do and then once we get him on board with us and he's no longer a threat then the the thing about it that like we don't like get too into details the funny thing is he thought that if they killed the baron and his assistants he could just get them like the two of them like a one-way flight to you know some warm island on the other side of the world and then so so would just be like oh okay i guess they're gone and uh but we didn't realize was uh because this isn't how it played out the previous time is that so so was just gonna be like no we're gonna shut down operations in the organization and nothing there's none of our businesses are gonna be functioning everything's on hold no one's getting a paycheck until someone finds them wherever they are in the world and kills them and makes them realize like oh fuck like not the smartest guy you know uh thinking like oh i just kind of thought that would be enough which then leads to uh you know them realizing sort of it's it's us or them um which is a a little absurdist and the thing i like about it you know it depends on what anyone else thinks as a pro or a con, you do spend the first two thirds of the movie hanging out with guys who I find pretty charming.

16:39I mean, they're stupid, but I think they're very lovable. And yeah, these two things dovetail where you're like, usually these movies, when they kind of get in the finale and it's like cannon fodder, there is zero personality to any of these goons. You know, like when you're in these big finales and they're like, oh, there's like a bunch of cannon fodder guys are going to get shot down but instead i'm just like these guys are pretty fun and then now finale is it's gonna be us versus them so it's like you could have the finale version where there's like this big catharsis where you're like yeah fuck these guys

17:18Chris Hewitt:where it's a little like ah fuck yeah yeah i mean they're all in they all do live in a dangerous world and a dangerous lifestyle that you know every day you could wake up and have these things happen because they're not altruistic people uh in a professional sense but um i don't know i i find those goofballs pretty endearing um like dumbass tony and and man jimmy boy just has the worst night ever he just got out of prison and he's just like trying to have a good time now he's having these like you know you know physical and mental issues and finds out mike was the rat seemingly the parties aren't as much fun as he thought it'd be and then also just just very funny to me that there's like no women at the final party it's just they've whittled down into the course of there all that's left is just a bunch of guys on coke who should have gone to bed hours ago yeah and if they had gone to bed hours ago they wouldn't have been there when mike and nick and next show up.

18:19So I think the moral of the story is no good can come from going to an after, after, after party.

18:26Chris Hewitt:Yeah, that is, that is very, very true indeed. And yes, dumbass Tony, he, he, he is a real one. Jackie, Jackie, Jackie Napalm's the real one. Dumbass Tony is also a real one, but not as well regarded. Well, you see, we never got to meet, I never got to meet Jackie Napalm, so I can't speak to his real oneness but dumbass tony i really like that guy until he got blown to smithereens with a grenade the toughest thing man the toughest thing in this fucking movie is i could literally just make a whole movie out of their thread but it just would be irresponsible for me as a director to spend too much time there but it's like i you know you know the action is the juice and this point at the action is just those guys being idiots and just going through their night i mean i'm really glad that they supported me putting some of the stuff into the end credits the the end credit stuff is mostly there just because i'm like i really i've already cut out too much of this shit like there's um there's this moment when like this is where like jimmy boy comes in and he walks in and uh they're playing the blade music and then he puts out his arms and they're firing confetti and stuff uh when he gets to the final party and uh at the end of that keith david came in and then jimmy put out his arms he goes dad and he goes son he goes dad he goes son he goes dad son dad son dad son and they do like a dad son dance and they're like hugging each other and it is i find so endearing but then you're like sitting there playing the movie for the studio and they're like okay so are we ever gonna cut back to vince and james and aza and as much as i believe in my movie and everything is intentional and i fight for my vision it's like okay yeah maybe we shouldn't spend six minutes away from the main block okay maybe i can lose this little bit here at the end you know with them and it was funny dude i remember at one point they're like hey it's it's sort of charming how every time Keith and Jimmy see each other, they're so excited to see each other and they like, they embrace and, but do they have to do it every time?

20:42Cause they just saw each other like 30 minutes before. I'm like, okay, fine.

20:46Chris Hewitt:So I lost a few of those things, but it was every time they saw each other in the movie, it was like, no one was happier to see anyone else in a movie ever. And I think two things are true. I think the stuff was objectively very funny. and also you can accidentally make it a little lopsided you know and it's and i and someone now might even think some of it's too long i mean i think it's just because they have bad judgment but i i you know i'm never going to put out a director's cut because i usually think director's cuts are stupid but if there was a director's cut it would just be five more minutes of them doing their bullshit.

21:25You know. There's a... I love Roy Ridge Ryan at the door, and I think one of the scenes that makes me laugh more than anything is him talking about the guy ODing, doing the finger quotes, and not remembering that Jimmy had been in prison, and he's been really sensitive and hurt that he didn't go to his wedding. And there was a lot more of that. But I think what's in there now is good enough.

21:52Chris Hewitt:Absolutely. One of the bits that destroyed me was Jimmy Boy asking what JB stands for on the shotgun. So there was a funnier version of that that I cut on my own volition because it just broke reality. But when he did it, I was scream laughing on set as he lifts up the gun. He looks at his dad. He looks back at the gun and says, is this a gun? and I just it was so there's a lot of stuff that was like really funny and I was just like it's just a tiny bit too funny it just feels a little bit like I can't have Jimmy be that dumb and it's all subjective it's like what's a JB stand for is a little less dumb than um is this a gun but is this a gun was funnier but it did I thought it was too funny in my opinion so what's really interesting about the film as well is that it is very very funny and I didn't expect to be moved in the way that I was moved at the end at what point in the writing of this did you have that ending in your pocket that present Nick dies well you know here's the funny thing so that ending has always been that way the one thing that changed was the The real tough thing is, like, I have a lot of action in my movie.

23:22I have two Vince Fonz. I am really pushing everything to the limit. I mean, I built Sosa's entire mansion on a soundstage. There's a lot of scale in this movie, and it's not a tentpole movie. And the only bit of action I had to cut was that originally, the Oasis scene is exactly as written, but it was also a car chase. so they are being chased by these guys on the way to the hospital so like they were in the car he

23:52Chris Hewitt:was dying they were singing but it's simultaneously a car chase so uh when i got rid of the car chase and just had them going straight to the airport in the writing process or or this is this is right before shooting i mean like if i shot that that would be in the movie okay but we're really trying to figure out how to use like every single put every penny we could on screen and if i had that a car chase, I would have had to lose a lot of the shootout in the house and it became this thing. And functionally, the point of that scene is they're trying to get to the hospital before he dies. You know that if President Nick dies, then future Nick is gone and all will be lost.

24:31So I licensed that song. It's always been the way it was written on the page.

24:35Chris Hewitt:Why that song, by the way? It's the only one that made sense to me. I think emotionally, it just felt for a lot of reasons like the kind of thing i just emotionally it feels really correct to have this this be the thing that these people are singing to each other as the guy dies uh as on the nose as it sounds it's one of those songs where like the lyrics are kind of like on the nose for what's going on emotionally but not so much that it becomes kind of goofy or saccharine um and then the truth is that i had like this isn't something i've discussed in an interview i've discussed about the real life grief thing but my take on the ending is that it was always meant to be somber and then you get some hope when you learn the thing after the car gets there but i was dealing with some grief um i had a i had a friend die the first day of prep and then uh which i named the hospital after him and then my cat died right before shooting so these things like happened back to back and when i was making the movie i was like really you know it was i had not had time to get over any of it.

25:54And I think when we did that scene, I was just really kind of in a state of mind of grief. And I think that I kind of, I think what I was going through really went into it in a way that I think is why it ends up being kind of emotional for people. It's like, I think kind of how far I took it and then how far Vince embraced the vulnerability of it led it to having kind of an actual real I'm just saying that I know some people who've watched it who've kind of been dealing with some stuff who talked about how it felt cathartic to them but the funny problem you get from that is when the original intention of the scene was I didn't really think it was going to become as emotional as it was yeah and then i embrace that then you're still boxed into where it's going so the really tricky thing became it's like a high class problems issue which is like oh wow this scene is really emotionally affecting people and then we're gonna immediately undercut it by alice bringing up this other time machine so i didn't it's it's like the weirdest problem to have is you sort of like accidentally did the best, most affecting version of a scene.

27:24That maybe when I had written it, I wasn't optimistic enough that it was I never really thought it was going to make everybody cry. And then I watched a cut of it and then I cried and I was like, oh, fuck. And then I showed the movie to people and then everybody cried and I was like, oh, great. This is high class problems where I'm like, everyone is like sad about this sacrifice. And then immediately afterwards I'm like, it's probably going to be fine. and I didn't want it to feel like you had whiplash there or that the next moment was meant to belittle it and also the ending to me is not sequel set up it's just it's the catharsis is supposed to be oh they'll figure it out and we don't need to see them figure it out but they're going to figure it out and I love this scene as is because I think you get the willingness that Nick has from Nick not knowing there's another time machine and being at peace with his decision I think is pretty heavy and effective and I think that his performance really sells it so it's like to him in that moment he doesn't know there's a time machine so I think there's a lot of real sadness in his in his sort of I think the way Vince is playing in the future Nick is he's really sad and he's watching himself die but he also feels like he did the right thing.

28:49Yeah. And he's made peace with it. And, uh, so I think it's great from a character perspective that he just went out feeling like he did his best and doesn't know that people are going to try to bring him back. Yeah. It's such a weird thing. It's like, it's just what happens when you make movies is like, you know, you're shooting everything out of schedule out of order. And, uh, like I shot them arriving at the hospital and then talking, before I shot the death scene, because that's just how movies work. Like, you cannot... It's impossible to just do everything, even if it might be better for performance.

29:25So I shot the ending of them there, her seeing the empty sea, their dialogue at the hospital. And then two weeks later, you shoot the scene in the car. And then you're spending a whole night on that, and you're like, oh, fuck, this really works. And then you have to reconcile in your head the ending you shot back when you were sort of thinking that I kind of thought originally the Oasis scene would just be kind of a little melancholy, but not... But everybody went for it on the day, and it really worked out. So that becomes one of the interesting things, where it's like, you can spend as much time as you want thinking about a movie and how to modulate tones and what's following the right thing.

30:05But I think if you read the script and read it on the page, the Oasis scene, you don't think it's going to make you cry. It feels more just kind of like... I think it felt more like is a foregone conclusion that he was going to die. And I also think that the thing the performers brought to was I think that James and Aza both were charmed by future Nick and really kind of forgiving of him in a way that really was additive. There's like a parking garage scene with Emily Hampshire where Aza realizes that future Nick and Sam are a couple and And she's, it's a really cute scene, I think, because she's like, this is the kind of person you should have been with.

30:54You should have been with some crazy, dirty cop. Like, this is the kind of person who you would actually be happy with. And he's basically saying that, too, when you're repeating between the lines. And she just seems, like, happy for him that he's going to be happy in the future. and i think that the so it's like when when he's like dying in the car they've already had their closure about their marriage she's like you know i'm with mike and you're finally over it i know you're gonna be with sam they already kind of envisioned a world where maybe they'd go on double dates or some bullshit and then now he's dying in the car so like there's these weird kind of because they took things seriously and played them well i think that those things all kind of they don't work in a vacuum it's like because if you like lose that parking garage scene i don't think the car scene works the same way it's just really interesting when you emotionally

31:49Chris Hewitt:calibrate that stuff yeah absolutely future nick is making his own big sacrifice at this moment and i i'm being wrapped up but i just i want i want to ask about shooting that again i asked her about sort of delineating the differences in fince's performances and shooting that that death scene. How did you do it? Did you shoot present Nick first or future Nick first? Because future Nick's really fascinating. We're getting to watch a man wrestling with his own imminent demise whilst still being completely healthy, knowing that at some point he's going to fade away. Which, as you say, has been, I think, an inevitability since the apartment scene with the leg wound.

32:31Chris Hewitt:But watching him do that, Finn's incredible in those moments as both Nicks. which did you shoot first how did you how did you navigate that side of things that was the most difficult scene i've ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever had with actors for multiple reasons it's the the way that the motion control rig was it was like outside of the car and you like talk to actors and then they would get in the car and then the rig would go in and then you sort of couldn't give them notes or feedback because in order to do it you'd have to move the motion control camera, get everybody out and then take everyone aside or else I'm like, and they have earwigs so they can like hear Oasis in their ears and I'm trying, and if I'm giving one person note from outside of the car, everyone else is hearing it so you can't tailor it person to person because like my favorite performance note in that scene, and I think it's that we've seen the whole we shot the whole thing, we shot for like hours and I didn't have a piece that really let the audience know that he was doomed or like set it up a little bit more so I took James I had to talk to James but I couldn't say it in front of the other actors so I had to move everything get James out of the car and I was like James I want you to look in the back seat before anyone else knows and you realize that he's going to die and I just want you to look forward and I just want you to think about that think about what that means think about how you feel about it And I just know I really need this for the edit and I need it to happen at this point.

34:08So he's like, okay, that makes sense. And so like, we got that take like at the end. And then when you place that in, there's a moment where like he tracks it and it's really where you're emotionally kind of getting you into that. But having Vince do his death scene and then starting with him and then having to have him look back at it without seeing what he's doing. But he's kind of performing to his memory of what he was doing there. And he just has like an eyeline to where he was dying. and then walking him through it while making sure it's syncing up at the same point in the music when we're cutting between the things was just it's a really tough thing and um you know it's like and vince doesn't want to do a bunch of takes of himself dying but then you're doing motion control to get another guy in there so then it's just like it's all the hardest parts of a job simultaneously it's the technical side vfx side it's death scenes it's scenes that start out a little kind of light-hearted but they then get dark and also trying to create an environment where actors can do their best while you're also doing fake lights to simulate street lights coming by and then these things flying over their heads it was like i never it's it's like it's like trying to just do like a really really yeah i don't even know how to say it just sucked and i'm that's part of the reason why i'm really happy it worked out i just it was the most obnoxious way to try to just get actors to do great work possible don't try this at home kids you are a professional yeah sort

35:53Chris Hewitt:of um it is such a beautiful beautiful ending i never met scott wampler but we follow each other on twitter we would dm uh occasionally as well and uh i was such a big fan of suicide when he when he when he passed and uh it's such a beautiful tribute uh as well just naming the hospital after him yeah it's um my my so my cat that died in prep um my uh partner had found him under a dumpster so i gave a whole monologue to keith david about it so i somehow um you know making a big studio movie found a couple ways to do tributes to my friend who died in my cat who died without just having a post credit like for Scott and Toby thing and I think the monologue that Keith David gives about my cat is very very funny and not indulgent because it just feels like well that is where he found Jimmy boy found him under a dump so beautiful stuff David I'm glad you got but it's been an absolute pleasure and thanks for your time alright thank you so much guys cheers thank you okay that was Ben David Grabinski talking about Mike and Nick and Nick and Alice and that is that for this spoiler special interview special thanks as ever for subscribing and supporting the spoiler specials and do spread the word tell all your friends about us unless of course they don't have streets have warfare in that case cut them off okay that's enough from me I'm off to pour one out for Scott Wampler he was a real one thanks for listening see you next time bye bye