F1 ft. Joseph Kosinski

26:14Chris Hewitt:Yeah. And there's interesting team tactics. I don't know whether any F1 teams are going to adopt some of these maverick tactics, shall we say. Yes. Again, talking with people like Lewis about things like that, how far are you stretching? Yeah, no, I mean, for me, it was important that, you know, Sonny knows they don't have the fastest car at the beginning of this movie. So then it comes down to strategy. And it's like, if I don't have the fastest car, how am I going to get this team a point? And I never wanted him to cheat, right? Because no one wants a movie about a cheater. But it's like, how do you get to the point where you go right up to the edge?

26:49Right? Right. So you'll notice at Hungary.

26:52Chris Hewitt:Yeah. He never runs into anyone. He looks for situations where someone will run into him. And he uses his knowledge of, you know, and again, I got this all from Lewis. If and it was hard for Lewis to wrap his head around the idea, I was like, if you wanted someone to hit you, how would you do it? And to ask, you know, Lewis, who's known as one of the kind of cleanest drivers in the sport, that question, it was fun to challenge him. But he's like, well, I guess if I wanted someone to hit me and I had a blue flag, I would let them by at turn six, which is a very awkward turn to let someone by at.

27:24And then maybe someone would hit me. And I was like, OK, but if you were going to if you wanted someone to hit you, you know, and you were going to dive down the inside, you know, which which driver would you do it to? And he was like, Kevin Magnuson and all the other drivers. It was so fun to watch that scene with them because when Kevin cuts in on Sonny Hayes and clips his front bumper, I saw them all look at each other and nod like, yeah, well, it makes sense. You don't cut down the inside on Magnuson. But, yeah, there was a lot of conversations about how his tactics would work and making sure that they're inside the rules but just pushed to the very edge.

27:59Chris Hewitt:I've got you to go in a second, but I just want to ask about beginnings and endings. and you begin the movie in Daytona with Sonny and you end with Sonny at a moment of, you know, again, he's risking his life, but this is what he wants to do. He's on the beach. He's driving that incredible, I don't even know what it is. Yeah, the Baja 1000 buggy. Amazing, amazing things. But he's also at a place where he can maybe have a future with Kate, maybe? Yeah. No, I think absolutely the future is there. These are two people who share a passion for the same thing, which is racing, but also know that they're both on their own journeys, and they're both successful at what they do.

28:44And Sonny Hayes, his motto is new day, new challenge. The truth about the Baja sequence was it was the opening scene of the first version of the draft we did. We opened with him in the Baja 1000. And both Lewis and Toto Wolff said to me, you can't go from Baja to Formula One. I'm sorry Joe that's too much of a leap so that's where we agreed to do endurance racing but we've got a whole scene written for a sunny drive in the Baja 1000 already so hopefully someday I'll

29:12Chris Hewitt:be able to shoot that amazing but then just starting off with the Daytona scene which is which is so much fun just draw him straight into that yeah yeah no I like the idea of meeting Sonny in his home turf and you know Shay Wiggum was born just a few miles from the track so to have him really play chip heart was uh was a real get and uh yeah i love i love the way we we kind of meet our characters love shay weacon yeah okay amazing uh joseph kosinski it's been a pleasure as always i'll see you down the road okay that was joseph kosinski talking about f1 and now it's going to be us four idiots talking about f1 we'll get to us in a second in general general thoughts on the movie but john i don't know where you stand on f1 movie and sports so tell us um general thoughts F1 Sports, I have very limited contact with.

30:03Okay. Cars go round, cars go vroom, vroom. You nailed it. That's basically it, right? Fire the occasional red shell at each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You chuck a banana on the thing. Yes. No, but funnily enough, my granddad, my grandpa used to be a rally driver. Really? This is a true story. In the 60s, he would drive around Europe in a little Mini Cooper. And I've got an amazing photo of him in his prime zipping around. So he's obsessed with motor racing of all kinds. So when I was a kid, I used to watch Grand Prix with him. And I actually went to the British Grand Prix. And I think I met Sterling Moss.

30:45Sterling Moss?

30:46Chris Hewitt:Was he still alive? Is that plausible? He would have been, yeah. Yeah, I went to the VIP section of the British Grand Prix when I was a kid. What the hell? And it was really fun. They were very loud. But none of this rubbed off on you. You did five lessons and they went, nope, two wheels for me. Yeah. No, the problem with F1 is it's quite boring, isn't it? That's the thing. Yes. That's always been my experience. I have tried to get into it and I just like, cars go round. There are a lot of laps. A lot of laps. Lots of cars go round. Well, one lap wouldn't be a spectacle. I prefer a sprint to America.

31:24Chris Hewitt:Yeah. I've seen your Tinder profile. Wow. Anyway, F on the movie, John. F on the movie, I had a good time. It's a good, fun popcorn, Friday night at the movies, switch your brain off, like have some fun. I did think I had some issues with it, but I wasn't as like, there are some people who are five on this movie. There's some people who are four. Yeah. There's some people who are one. What are the people who are one? what are they seeing? Because we have someone in the office who's a two on this movie and he just thinks it's boring. He does. I've said him, I don't want to reveal his name, but it's Alex.

32:05Chris Hewitt:So he thinks it's just a slightly boring, watered down version of Top Gun Maverick without the emotion. So for you, what is cinema? But also for you, what is he seeing in that? What are the detractors of this movie? What are they seeing? I don't... Because you don't see it. I kind of well not really not to the extent I think it's like it's tricky I think I kind of agree to an extent in that I think part of Alex's critique and you know I'm taking words out of his mouth or putting them in whatever that he found that there wasn't a lot of characterisation there wasn't a lot of depth in the characters and that kind of stuff and I don't think he enjoyed the actual racing sequences which I that I don't understand because I don't understand how you can't get involved in those scenes and feel the excitement from watching them.

32:58I do get that there's sort of a bit of a lack of dimension to the characters, but that's not necessarily everything that I'm coming to this film for. And I think that there's enough there that it doesn't dampen the rest of it. So I understand it to an extent, but not to a two-star extent. I cannot sanction that.

33:18Chris Hewitt:You're clearly in a four-star camp. Were you teaching on the brink? Were you close to a five at any point? I was close. Johnny Nuge will tell you. Johnny Nuge, reviews editor. We had a bit of a text conversation, didn't we? And you were very hyped after that screening. Because I just came out just full of energy. And I was so just, yeah, totally, totally hyped from it. And I was like, I can't see anything wrong with it. Maybe it's a five. But like I could and I knew that you would. The thing is, when we were having that text conversation, I was like, John's going to say it's not a five. And I sort of knew that in my mind.

33:48but I think that my heart and body had reacted to it so much that I was up there. But I'm happy with a four. It's a strong four for me. It's not like I scraped it. It's like a high four. What we sometimes say is you can have a five-star experience with a four-star filmmaking overall. Yeah, that's what it is. I think it is. If you're seeing this in the right context with a good crowd, and you're in the right frame of mind, you can have a five-star time with this film. But it's not a five-star film. But it's not a five-star film. I don't think it has the character depth, really, to do that. But I was going to say, I don't think it has the drama.

34:28It absolutely does have the drama, but not the character drama. There's so much drama in the individual races that you're absolutely at the edge of your seat, gripping the armrests. It's incredible. And as I said, I say this as someone who has zero interest in really any form of motorsport. But I thought, yeah, I had a great time with this. And I'd been primed. you know, fucking Alex had pissed all over my chips before I went in. I went in expecting this. He does that. He does that with all of the, you know, the snacks you take into the cinema. But I, you know, I was expecting this. I thought I might be disappointed having spoken to him, and I wasn't at all.

34:59So, you know. Don't listen to Alex Godfrey. Yeah, that's the part of this story. Don't listen to Alex. Yes, this is one takeaway. Please don't do that. Jimbo, so what did you like about it? God, I thought the races were poetry in motion. in that they were just stunningly shot, incredibly effective and sort of visceral, and they have a powerful sort of emotional hold on you. Like I say, I'm not an expert on this, I don't know anything about it, but the sense of danger and the thrill of being in that cockpit and flying around at the speed, I don't even know what speeds they go at, but it looked pretty fucking fast.

35:42Fast. It's nearly 300 miles an hour. I mean, it's insane. So it's how I drive in the Fiesta. But just the mechanics of it as well, not the literal mechanics. Just the fact that when they do the race, the idea of the temperature of your tyres is a thing. Who knew? That's true. Didn't know anything about that. The decisions, the tactical decisions, when to come off, when to come on, the rules of what happens when you go off, what a safety car is, no idea. The idea that doing that practice lap at a higher speed gives you warmer tyres, which gives you more traction, which gives you an advantage, blows my mind.

36:17Because I've always thought of this as a slightly weird sport. And the reason why is, it seems to me, and this is my understanding of F1 and what's going in, that everyone builds a car, the people with the most expensive cars win. The end. That is true. Right. And so it seems to be, but what I kind of failed to understand from this is that, while I guess this is about, you know, and I guess this is a football thing as well, like if you go in with tons of money, you have an unfair advantage. but what's interesting is the strategy for motor racing is simply broader so it's not a driving strategy it's a driving strategy plus a pit stop strategy plus a an aeronautic strategy in the construction of the car so it's not necessarily i'm sure it's about money but it's also about the strategy extends to the construction of the car like the idea here where he said you know we want we want like combat fins or whatever so that it's more aggressive when it's overtaking i thought that's fascinating to me that the the strategy for a race extends to that level of construction and engineering and also the idea that and i didn't know that people raced in pairs the fact that you have two people on a team and the fact that you can work in concert to form really elaborate strategies to ensure that one of you finishes in a certain position it blew my mind it was like four-dimensional chess with wheels and i fucking loved it and it's i love hearing you say All of that, because you guys have just said, well, we thought it was a bit boring as the cars go around the laps.

37:41Vroom, vroom. Once you understand all of it on that level, though, it's not just watching them drive around, because you're thinking, well, I know that Lewis has got these tyres, but he's just pitted, and what's the time going to work there? Oh, it's about to rain. That's going to change everyone's strategy. The safety car's come out. That's bringing them all together. So that lead's gone. Like, Hamilton has lost championships based on a safety car coming out at the end of a race. He was done dirty. It was terrible. And so, like, the stakes and all those things are so high that then when you're watching the race, yeah, it's like 58 laps or whatever it is.

38:15It's a long time. But you're watching all these things come together, and that's why it's not boring. Genuinely, this made me think. And I think a lot of people, because I mentioned Drive to Survive, that's something that I think has keyed a lot of people on to motorsports. That is F1, right? I haven't actually seen it, but yeah. It's gotten people a lot more involved with the actual drivers themselves. Right. And I think the characters are an important part, but when you understand exactly what we've been talking about, like the mechanics, literally, of how this all works, it opens your eyes to this, which is more than overpaid men driving cars around a track.

38:50Like, there's much more to this than that. It's interesting.

38:53Chris Hewitt:I think Drive to Survive actually played a pivotal role in getting this movie off the ground, in a way, because it really did ignite and introduce an entire new generation of people to Formula One. because over the years, Formula One has had that stigma. It's one of the most glamorous sports in the world, and these racers are incredibly highly paid, and rightly so, they're putting their lives on the line every time they get in the car. But over the years, I grew up watching Formula One in the heyday of Nigel Mansell and Prost and Senna and some of the greatest drivers, and was a huge fan of F1 through the years of Schumacher.

39:31Chris Hewitt:And I've stepped away from it the last few years because I really didn't like, I won't go into why, but I didn't like the treatment made it out to Lewis Hamilton, who was on the verge of winning what I consider to be legitimately his eighth championship, which would have been a record. And it was snatched away from him. Do some googling about it and make your own mind up about that, whether it was legitimate or not. And since then, another driver has risen to the fore called Max Verstappen. And for me, his dominance is very much, yes, he's a great driver. There's no question about that. But his dominance, is I think symptomatic of one of the criticisms people level of Formula 1 which is if you have the best car you by and large are going to win as long as you're the best driver in that team if you have the best car then chances are you're going to be unassailable that's beginning to change now this season it's beginning to change but Formula 1 over the last few years actually introduced some different rules and some rule changes and tweaked the format a little bit to try and make things more interesting make qualification something this movie completely ignores by the way qualification it's just they might they magically qualify for the race we don't see any of that happening but they're like always at the back what happened until the end when they're like qualifying like third and fourth and whatnot but anyway I can see why because qualification is fun to watch if you're a fan of the sport but in the movie I think if you're trying to explain to people who don't know what it is it would feel a bit strange why are they just going around the track on their own that doesn't make any sense to me but anyway so Drive to Survive I think viewing figures for f1 were beginning to tail off a little bit and drive to survive did introduce this new generation of people to the sport and the fact that f1 it's like i say hugely popular sport hugely glamorous sport a lot of money behind it as you might expect very very expensive sport to to participate in but in terms of being popular it doesn't have remotely the the reach of something like obviously football or I'm guessing even tennis, golf, things like that.

41:32Chris Hewitt:So to have a movie of this scale, of this budget made on Formula One, I think would have been unthinkable 10 years ago because it would have died on its arse. The interesting thing about budgets, so this is what,$200 million movie? I've read more, but then, you know, who knows? Yes, some people have said$300 million. But they brought in, was it like$40 million just in sponsorship, which is an incredible amount of money to make before you've even gone into cinema. I was thinking that as I was watching it, because you've got this fictional team of Apex, but they're kitted out in a way that all actual Formula One teams are, where they've got sponsors all over the cart.

42:07Yeah. What's the big one? Tommy Hilfiger's The Big One. Yeah, I came out of that film, what's an Expensify? I really want Expensify, and I don't know why. And I was thinking, they'll have made, it's product placement, but it absolutely should be there. So organic. Because it would be weird if it wasn't, if it was a blank car. So that's worked totally to their advantage. Genius move.

42:27Chris Hewitt:And it offsets a lot of the cost there. I can't believe you guys don't know what Expensify is. It is, of course, the Expensify corporate card to automatically import an account for all your company's expenses without lifting a finger. Get 50 % off your first three months of billing with Expensify with your Visa business card. This offer can be redeemed online. Redeem now, Visa Expensify. The podcast is brought to you by Expensify. I really wish it was brought to you by Expensify. I'd be quite nice as I rock up on my Mini Cooper there are many things I would like to expensify let me tell you that this is not brought to you by expensify by the way I was reading something I found on it but I think that's genius but also the way that all of yes your joke is genius but also the way that this feels so this feels super expensive and super real because of the way they shot it at all of these Grand Prix events around the world so like all of you you're watching this and if you didn't know how it was made you like you would just be thinking how the fuck did they make this film?

43:21How are they at all of these places? Not least of all because you see these recognizable drivers and people from the sport, but they're at these fucking races. It's mad. My mind was boggling the whole time and I knew that it had happened, but it's like at some Grand Prix's, the two Apex drivers would be at the back of the race and then the actual broadcast for the actual Grand Prix, they were on the grid at that time, but they just cut them out of the camera shot and it's like, that was actually, my mind was just boggling. the level of access that they got.

43:51Chris Hewitt:For the parade lap, which is the lap that they take to kind of warm up at the beginning of the race. Because even if I don't watch races in full now, I try and watch that because it's so much fun when the lights go on and the cars go, because sometimes they're going to be a really rarely accident and cars can like, you know, you don't want to see anyone get hurt, obviously, but it can be very interesting to see what happens. But, you know, the parade lap, so I presume they were, they would do the parade lap and then just peel off I assume so and go to their garages or garages if you're in America but then afterwards I think they would when all the people were still kind of hanging around I'm sure they captured plates and things like that then I think they would get on the track and do some of the driving that they do that we see in the movie I think so and like the ceremonies and stuff yeah Kaczynski said in the interview because I said were you worried about effectively giving away the end of your movie because the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix is the last Grand Prix of the season and they had to shoot, they had literally minutes sometimes to shoot these scenes and so he was worried, were you worried about giving away the fact that there is Javier Bardem on the podium being drenched in champagne and hugging Brad Pitt and he said well we shot one with Damson Idris as well so people couldn't tell that's smart that's interesting because I remember seeing it for the first time I was watching the British Grand Prix a couple of years ago and suddenly Brad Pitt's on the fucking Yeah, yeah, yeah.

45:19Chris Hewitt:He's on the paddock and what's going on? Yeah, there was a whole year, wasn't there, where the whole cast just kept coming up in press shots. They were just being papped and just being seen in all of these Grand Prixs. And you can really feel that in the film. You can feel the veracity of it. It feels like Kaczynski has taken the sort of principles that he learned on Top Gun Maverick of just having complete participation and, you know, helpfully a ton of money. Like, you know, a big sort of apple-sized deep pockets to make it feel as real as humanly possible. And yeah, I guess the fact that Formula One is such an expensive sport, it follows that you need an expensive film.

46:04It matters, doesn't it? Like I say, this is kind of all new to me, but being immersed in the atmosphere of these tracks and these stadiums with the people and the energy and the buzzing of it. Like, if you tried to construct this with great big fuck-off green screens, like, technically, you could probably do it. But I don't think this film is what it is. This film feels so sort of tangible. And I feel like I'm in the car. I'm in the crowd. I can feel the energy of it all. And obviously, we saw this on an IMAX screen, which definitely helps. But it was quite an assault on the senses. I also liked that they had this conceit of Brad Pitt's character doing a lap on foot of each course.

46:46Yeah, yeah. Because you get a sense of each track is very different and it has different, like, quirks and corners and sensibilities. Don't worry it comes last. Just running around

46:58Chris Hewitt:getting a laugh by a car doing 200 miles an hour. But, you know, I like that, I mean, you really feel the locations. It feels like a jet-setty movie. It's like James Bond without any, you know, guns or shooting. We can see why it costs, you know, apparently allegedly$300 million because just where they went is just incredible. What's interesting, there's a number of interesting things I want to talk about. What's interesting about it is where it starts. So it starts at Silverstone. It starts at a British Grand Prix, finishes at Abu Dhabi. We have major incidents that happen in Monza, which is the Italian Grand Prix.

47:33Chris Hewitt:We have the Belgian Grand Prix in there as well. I think it's Spa. We also have a major thing. Sunny's big accident happens in Las Vegas. so there's a lot of jumping around doesn't go to Monaco which is I think probably the Premier Grand Prix although really fucking boring that's the one like Monaco is it's a street track they literally drive through Monaco it's almost impossible to overtake so generally speaking the winner wins the person who's first wins Iron Man 2 oh right see that's what you need to say and also yes Mickey Rourke will always turn up and put your car into submission but that's one of the questions I had written down but didn't get a chance to ask Joseph Kaczynski why did you choose to start in Britain and not in Monaco I wonder if that was a scheduling thing but anyway I imagine sorry Chris it might have been a bit more difficult to shoot in Monaco I don't know maybe the logistics of it it's so small it's so tight it's like I don't know but maybe maybe it comes down to because I think they play fast and loose with some of the rules and regulations and it's not quite as team strategy based as I think the movie makes it out to be yeah that's true and certainly what happens at the end, I've looked it up.

48:47Chris Hewitt:I may be completely wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure you just can't change your driver up on the day of the race because you feel like it. Oh, I don't think you can. But at a certain point, the movie just kind of goes, shh, it's fine. It's fine. And again, real petrol heads might write in and go, actually, Chris, I think you're fine. Some section three, clause 14 said you can do that, actually. So if that's true and that's the case, then that's totally fine. But one of the things I really love about the racing sequences here is how brilliantly Kuczynski and his DP, Claudio Miranda, who again were kind of the dream team on Top Gun Maverick, switch up the visual approach to each of the races, culminating in that wonderful sort of beatific.

49:35Chris Hewitt:It's like a dream shot, isn't it? Yeah. It's incredible. It feels like a weird, like a dreamlike flying sequence. Exactly how he describes it when he talks to Kerry Condon about it. He feels no one can touch him and he's flying and that's how you feel. It's quite zen, it's meditative. Yeah. And every race has a different approach. Yeah. I feel like when you hear drivers talking about why they do it as well, I feel like what Brad Pitt is saying about it feels like he's flying, that feels ripped from reality to me. From what I've heard the drivers say. Yeah, apparently it was almost verbatim something Lewis Hamilton told.

50:11Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think just on that point, I felt the realism of that. And it was joining the dots between.

50:18Chris Hewitt:And then leaving it to that moment, I mean, Kaczynski says that he does do POV shots in the other races. But because the way the camera is mounted, he has that really wonderful trick where the camera will suddenly turn almost 180 degrees as people are turning corners. But for a pure POV shot that takes the car away and shows you that shot of what Sonny is seeing as he goes around and wins in Abu Dhabi. That, to me, I felt really euphoric in a way. Totally. Yeah. I agree. And the whole aftermath of that, the team all running, that happens every Grand Prix in the Champagne. That joy, I thought, was conveyed so well.

51:01And at the end, I was like, they've only won one race.

51:04Chris Hewitt:I'm so excited. there's like 22 races or whatever but I felt all of that and it's because you know how far they've come like how hard they've worked to get to that point like I think it was really it's a real underdog story yeah yeah but I never had any doubt that it would be put on the podium partly because this is his last chance isn't it this is his only chance you feel like if he doesn't win this that's it whereas Damage Nidris' character has a career ahead of him so you thought this is the way it's going to go but I wasn't sure like I loved that idea like it had real kind of Star Wars vibes for me when they're behind Lewis Hamilton and they're like side by side flanking him and they're like he's going to defend whoever comes up this is X-Wings in a trench this is extraordinary I was absolutely loving that and when he pulls out and then Hamilton blocks him and then the other one goes past I was like oh so exciting I can't say I've ever seen that in an actual race I don't know how well it would work in real life but there were a few moments where I was watching it and I was like I'd love an F1 expert to tell me how realistic this is There's one race where Brian Pitt's character blocks drivers, deliberately blocks drivers a few times.

52:13And he gets a safety. Does he get penalized or something? He gets blue flags.

52:19Chris Hewitt:Yeah, there are very much rules. I'm not an F1 expert, but I know enough to know that if you cause another driver to deliberately crash, you will get disqualified from the race. The stewards will investigate you and they will slap you with either a penalty or a disqualification depending on how bad it is. The film takes liberties. But again, I think it was Kaczynski, maybe you've just heard in the interview, Kaczynski was saying, again, this is something that Lewis Hamilton was advising him on racing lines and the best way to do it whilst just about staying in the margins of the rules, making sure that he was being hit by people and that he wasn't hitting people.

52:58Chris Hewitt:Although some stewards would go, I was irresponsible, reckless driving and we're going to hit you with a penalty. See, I understand all this because I play a lot of Mario Kart and it's very much the same thing. You've got to watch out for the blue shells, but other than that, racing lines, got it. The bit where Sonny threw a banana skin behind him I thought was unrealistic. And then where Sonny goes, I'm a Sonny, I'm a Gonawee. I'm a Gonawee.

53:22Chris Hewitt:Okie-dokie. But yeah, were you surprised by the fact that Brad Pitt won? Because again, that's something I talked to Kaczynski about, the fact that going into the last race, custom dictates that the Oscar-winning megastar who is front and center of the movie is going to win the race and get the glory. But there's enough fallibility and flaws about Sonny that I think means that there's another version of this movie where he didn't win, and that would have been satisfying too. That Joshua Pierce would have won the final race, and that would have been satisfying as well. Yeah, I did think maybe they were going to do the sort of rocky approach, the sort of noble defeat kind of thing.

53:57And also, you know, it throws some serious doubt when Brad Pitt's character, I should really call his name Sonny. That's it, yeah. So when Sonny, aka Brad Pitt's character...

54:09Chris Hewitt:I've been saying Sonny a lot. Have you been thinking that I'm just... Because I'm old. So I just don't call people Sonny. I'm just not listening to you, Chris. I haven't paid attention to the word you said. Sonny! I like your strategy. Yeah, when Sonny crashes and you realize he's had this back injury this entire time. and I mean that casts quite a large amount of doubt into like his capability but at the same time I mean I've seen having seen any sports movie ever you sort of know roughly where it's going to go yeah the beats of it are familiar it's all hitting a very safe and familiar form a racing line if you will a racing line yes very good James I'm learning the movie's unlikely to end isn't it with Kerry Condon tears soaked trying to resuscitate something.

55:01Chris Hewitt:Like the champ. You guys ever seen that film? The John Foy film? Fucking hell. Tear jerk of that one. Oh my God. Yeah, it'd be weird if the film ended and they decided that teamwork actually is not the dream. No. Well, he drives Joshua Pierce off the track as well. Lester Damson, Idris character, by the way. Yes, thank you. Okay, thank you. I love the bit where he's like, give me the tires I want. Nope, I'm just going to fucking sit here. Fuck you. I particularly enjoyed that. I don't know why.

55:33Chris Hewitt:So, we talked a lot about stuff that we like about the movie. Was there anything that didn't work that well for you? I'm going to say it. There is a fucking shocking line in this film. And there was a genuine, when I went to the big multimedia screening, there was a pause and people were literally going, Really? It was a bit where he says, they said something like, I'm not sure they've got the car. And Javier Bardem goes, we've got the driver and everyone was like like that it was so cheesy and it just clanged like a lead weight and that was brutal but that's that's probably the only one that I think actively stunned the audience other than that they were wailing and screaming and clapping so yeah but it's a bad line I do remember like that line being jarring but I was just like it's cheesy it's fine I knew he was gonna say it for like two minutes prior to him saying it and I was fine with it.

56:30It's a cheesy film. It's true. They had the drivers, guys.

56:34Chris Hewitt:And it's all true. Yeah, show me the lie, Jimbo. He did have the driver. He did. Eventually. I mean, yeah, there are high levels of cheese in this film. It is a whiffy, cheesy film. Yeah, most of the time that's fine. I think most of the time, if you're on board with it, you can have a good time. there were a few moments that did I did feel like I mean you know Tobias Menzies character I was just like oh come on he was getting a lot of laughs in my screening but like just sort of cartoon villainy it sounds harsh and I actually have nothing against Tobias Menzies as an actor but that was a horribly cast role because he's so glaringly unnecessarily Englishly evil and it's just oh god The problem is, like, this is a film that's going for veracity.

57:27It's going for, like, something that's as close to the real thing as possible. And then you have this, like, cartoon character. It's full-on wacky racist is what it is. He's dastardly. All it's missing is a mustache to twiddle. You know, it's ridiculous.

57:43Chris Hewitt:I didn't see that twist coming, I'll be honest with you. I was very surprised when he revealed his true colors. I thought he had Ruben's back. He said so. You took him at his word. He was a trustworthy guy. He was in The Crown, probably.

58:01Chris Hewitt:Wasn't he? He was. I'm pretty sure he was, yeah. I saw it coming when I saw Tobias Menz's name in the credits. I was like, okay, well, we've got our bad guy here. There we go. When he was watching the final race and they were doing well, and everyone was like, yeah, and he was like, oh, no, they're winning. I mean, yay! it was it was it was ill ill conceived I think that I'll totally give Alex that that character's problem Alex also had issues with the kind of love subplot I didn't at all I actually really enjoyed that I didn't do I thought Kerry Condon was great I thought she was incredibly charming and I actually really bought there especially how they ultimately get together with the cards I thought it was again I thought it was nice it was well put together well executed speaking of love subplots is it worth talking about Simone Ashley yes I only found this out recently that she was cut from a movie.

58:52So she is... Has she seen Bridgerton? She is Bridgerton. And The Crown, probably? That's right. Yeah, probably. She's in sex education. Okay. Good journalism here, isn't it? Probably in that. Probably in Doctor Who or something. Yes, so she, I believe, was the love interest of... Look, that's nice.

59:13Chris Hewitt:Oh my God, John. Joshua Pierce do you have your own name written in your hand John Nugent Nugent hello it was a long time ago I watched this film it was like a week ago or something who can remember these things the H is silent anyway so Damson Idris's character Joshua Pierce had a love interest played by Simone Ashley this actor from Bridgerton and was left on the cutting room floor and this was yeah, caused somewhat of a stir. Because Simone Ashley is, you know, pretty well known. Bridgerton is one of the biggest TV shows in the world. She has a big fan base. She does. And also for her to be a woman of colour, that's not a great look to cut that out.

1:00:02I can only assume it's because it's a two and a half hour film. And they were like, it cannot be a three hour film. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I do wonder what that film would have looked like. to have a bit of a different dimension to Joshua's character. A hundred percent.

1:00:18Chris Hewitt:Yeah, because I thought they were going to have a romance with the publicist. I don't know the name of the actress who plays the publicist on the team. And then that doesn't really go anywhere. And it was only after it interviewed Joe Kuczynski that I came back to the holding area and people were talking loudly about Simone Ashley having been cut out. And I was like, what? And then I went home. I went home and I looked at my Journalist of the Year awards.

1:00:46Chris Hewitt:so if you know if you know why if Joseph Klicensky is listening to this please meet me in an underground parking garage well I think he has I think he has spoken about it because it was not to me clearly it was quite controversial and I think he just said as for that exact reason it was just you know an editorial decision it's just this is something that happens in every film you know it was no like you know a referendum on her work. I think it was literally just like a timing thing. Like it would have been a much longer film and would have felt less pacey. But it's a shame, you know, that that's the thing that had to get lost.

1:01:24Because it is a long film. It doesn't feel long actually when you watch it. And I'm not sure, even despite the kind of serious run time, I'm not sure what you could take from it as it is. Like it's not a flabby film at all. No. It's quite lean because I don't know, like all those races work extremely well, they're very well constructed. I don't know that you can really take that much out of it. And to your point, you mentioned in this review, you were worried that some of those races might seem repetitive if you're not into F1. I think what's genius about them is there's none of it, to me, felt repetitive.

1:01:54It all felt very distinct. And there's nothing in there that I'd want to lose.

1:01:58Chris Hewitt:Each one either progresses, but I think very nicely, the story of either Sonny or, or, reads notes, Joshua.

1:02:09Chris Hewitt:Joshua Pierce or the story of the team. so I don't think and then if a race isn't that important it does get montaged there's a couple of races that do get a montage but the Simone Ashley thing is really really interesting I think that Joshua is humanized by a number of things I think he's a really I think he's quite a complex character to be honest I think the sort of braggadocio the sort of ego that he has it is obviously bruised by Sonny Hayes being there and Sonny Hayes of course being much older which is kind of unrealistic in the world of F1 I think there have been drivers maybe that old in IndyCar over the years, but not in F1, by and large.

1:02:49Chris Hewitt:Again, someone will write me and tell me I was wrong about that, if I am indeed wrong. But you can see why Damson Idris would be, why Joshua would be so put out by Sonny Hayes' presence. And what the film doesn't do is it doesn't filonize him. It actually dimensionalizes him and humanizes him, I think, through, not Simone actually because she's on the cutting room floor, although I believe she's in a couple of shots. She is. But by his relationship with his mother. Now and again it does feel like the sequence shortened, a couple of steps have been cut out. There's a bit towards the end where his agent, his best friend his agent, played by Samson Kao, who's very funny in the film.

1:03:31Chris Hewitt:He seems to reject him and then at the end they're all made again and it feels like a couple of scenes are missing there. But by and large I think that relationship with his mother, Sarah Niles in the film is really, really nicely drawn. And he's terrific dancing, dancing Idris. So good. Really good in this. To hold your own the way he does against Brad Pitt is quite something. Yeah, he's so charming. And I agree that I think that character has got a lot of dimension to him because you get the sense that he's sort of worked hard to get there, almost like a Hamilton-esque figure. Yeah. Because his parents have backed him, he's worked his way up, and everything's riding on this for him.

1:04:12And he's caught between these two worlds with his manager saying, you want influence, you want followers, you want to be seen at these parties. But then Sonny actually makes him realise it's about the driving. And I think that is probably something that these drivers have to weigh up all the time, is their public image versus what they're doing for the sport. And everything's just, the stakes are so high for him, this is his thing, he needs to win to keep driving. I think he conveys all that so nicely and the relationship with his mom and the dynamic between him and Sonny that develops and the respect that grows.

1:04:45But then when he has the accident and he's kind of, he starts to withdraw and like, go back to old patterns.

1:04:52Chris Hewitt:And blame Sonny for it, even though it was his mistake. I thought that all tracked really well. I had questions about the accident though, because that accident, I know everyone is kind of famous for it, but it seemed 100 % fatal to me. With the flames, flames literally coming out of the side of his head. No, no, no. there's been there's been accidents like that Grosjean Grosjean had a horrible accident 5-10 years ago about that yeah I think Kaczynski talked about it in the spoiler interview that's what instantly made me think of it his car went up I can't remember what Grand Prix it was his car went up in flames and he got pulled out of it and he survived and that was instantly what made me think of it it's come on a long way I mean obviously they're having fatalities over the years at Ayrton Senna of course famously but they have They've introduced new safety measures.

1:05:40Chris Hewitt:There's a thing called the halo now, which basically means that your head doesn't move and you stay in that car because sometimes drivers would be flung out of the wreckage. That's what happens to Sonny. You see Sonny flung out of the fuselage of his car, if that's the right word. They could catch fire very easily, but they're wearing incredibly flame retardant suits. Obviously, the amount of time you will burn to death eventually, but if someone can get you in time, then it buys you about 30 seconds, I think, to get someone out there. I think with that accident, it was the amount of flipping.

1:06:13I don't think I've seen one quite like that. I could see the fire and him getting out of that, but it was huge. And when they cut the sound when he goes, my heart dropped. In the cinema, it was a crazy experience.

1:06:26Chris Hewitt:Yeah, because again, custom dictates in these things. Top Gun Maverick doesn't really follow that. because I think this movie is following the Top Gun Maverick playbook to an extent, and Top Gun Maverick doesn't do that. Top Gun Maverick doesn't do the goose thing. It doesn't kill someone off halfway through to make the stakes more emotional or to raise the stakes for Maverick. They're already inbuilt. But I was wondering in this movie, might it kill Sonny? Might it kill Joshua halfway through? And I'm glad that they didn't go down that route, to be honest. yeah I wondered if maybe because this film and I don't know exactly what how it worked but I know that this was made very closely in conjunction with Formula One yeah and I did wonder like what level of approvals they had to go through in order to make it like whether you can't kill you can't show one of her it's just being killed would they have signed off possibly yeah on deadly accidents like they wouldn't want to like show off the support in that way I prefer a player from actually showing how dangerous it is as well they don't shy away from that it comes across as I was thinking who in their right mind would do this for a living I was watching it's insane it looks so dangerous some of them are like barely adults when they start there's some that are like 19, 20 it's crazy but also I think in terms of getting it made from what I've read I think Lewis Hamilton was major in making that happen like he came on board as executive producer and like he's so he with Ferrari now but he was with Mercedes for a long time and I think I know Toto Wolff was on the list of producers as well who's the head of Mercedes yeah yeah and I think from what I can understand that like those two I'm sure there were more were like key in like getting Kaczynski in with the head honchos at Formula 1 and being like we can get this made getting them access getting them on the grid on the tracks but I think we've been disingenuous to show F1 and show that it's all sweetness and light It is a money pit for a lot of, it's like the old joke of football, what's the best way to become a millionaire?

1:08:33Chris Hewitt:Buy a football club as a billionaire and then you just lose all your money. And it's kind of the same with F1 to a certain extent. You have to have pretty much bottomless pockets to do that. I think it would have been disingenuous to show F1 as just this walk in the park. It is fucking dangerous. So you might as well show that, I think. And they don't have to die. The interesting thing about Lewis Hamilton's participation part of the fact that if I'm wrong he doesn't get a line which I thought was interesting I thought for sure he would get a line I guess he does play a pivotal part in the Abu Dhabi race is what Lewis Hamilton means not just to the sport but not just as a British racing driver but as a black racing driver as well and then you have the Damson Idris character of course and the film doesn't really pick up that thread it doesn't really develop that thread he's racing, Joshua Pierce is racing alongside someone who I'm presuming in the you know in this the backstory of this film would have been a huge inspiration to him you know Lewis Hamilton's an incredible trendsetter for my money one of the greatest you know it's not a controversial thing to say one of the greatest racing drivers of all time and what that means like you know it's like Tiger Woods and golf inspiring a generation of people who just look at this sport or Serena Williams in tennis and just look at this sport and go this sport was never meant for me oh shit now it is because there's someone who's not just participating in it but setting records and rewriting the rule book and i i wondered if that that had been explored a little bit more there definitely could have been space for it to tie into josh's story a bit more i think um but because it was so centered around sunny and his comeback it was a shame there wasn't more room for that i think because it is a major part of the at the moment and past few years i wondered if they were trying to bring in um sort of agnostics or newbies like James and I and not overdoing anything too based in the real sports like trying to keep it on the characters and the plots I mean there was there were definitely a couple of points where I was like I don't know what's happening here and you know there was a couple of clearly trumpeted cameos from insert name of Formula One figure that I had no idea who they were and I was like okay I'm supposed to know who that is same I had that someone says something to him at one point walking past he offers him a job doesn't he who's that who offers him a job that was Toto wasn't it yeah I think that's Toto says you can drive for Mercedes anytime he's an executive producer in the film but he's also very high up but again that felt like okay this is a very obvious cameo of someone I couldn't pick out of a line up but sure yeah but that'll be for the F1 heads I think all that sort of stuff yeah Yeah.

1:11:21Chris Hewitt:Gonna wrap this up. But have we talked enough about Brad Pitt? Because this is a really, I mean, he's so good now, but this is such an assured movie star performance. And by the way, I think we get the romance short shrift. I think Kate is a really, Kerry Condon's a really good actor, and this is a really lively, vital performance in a role that could have been, I think, really underwritten. Yes. And really wrote. And instead it was wrote with a W. yeah she's incredible good grammar there I think she has the best voice in Hollywood I would listen to her and she kept her own accent as well I like that a lot your man's in the church boss

1:12:04Chris Hewitt:she's so good oh yeah no she looks fantastic that's a different character that's just a different character who's Irish

1:12:16Chris Hewitt:not even what can you say it's not in the same franchise eyes. Also the character is not Irish. In that scene he very much is. Towards the end of X-Men First Class he very much goes fuck it.

1:12:32Chris Hewitt:Is it reshoots? I can't remember what my accent was. I shot that thing six months ago I can't fucking remember. You're getting Irish. That's what you're getting. But anyway yes Carrie Condon's great. There you go. Boom. Done. Thank you. Brad Pitt. But there's something I really like. I think he's a really interesting character because he's not just, you know, he's not a saint, but he stretches the imagination. And we haven't even mentioned Javier Bardem and his massive head. Because it's a giant fucking head. And, you know, that relationship. On the regular podcast, Jeremy Dillon was saying, I think that he would have liked that relationship to be filled in a little bit more.

1:13:12But I felt they have some really,

1:13:14Chris Hewitt:really interesting scenes together. And the good thing about Ruben is that he never turns on Sonny. even when he does even like he affects him from the team at the end he does it partly for his own good yes absolutely feels like he comes from a good place yeah I'd love to see I would love to see because obviously they spent a lot of money on baby Brad Pitt for the flashback scenes could they have done like young Javier Bardem but then you see him on the cover of the magazine don't you you do you do but you know and then who makes a helmet for a head that big I just I don't know it's just it's a it's a lovely head he's a very handsome man disproportionately big though I read something where most movie stars have bigger heads than the average person okay is that true?

1:14:01Chris Hewitt:I haven't measured it I'm not sure this is science although Bardem looks like he's got that's a big head look at his virtual planetoid he wouldn't have been able to borrow Sonny's headphones which I might add were egregious product placement of AirPods Max which you see he's wearing a lot which presumably he bought via his his fees expensify. That's right. I think Kerry Condon is on some very expensive looking Macs at one point. Yes, he is. I love to Macs. I love Macs to the Macs. Mac Neato. Oh my God. Anyway, Sonny Hayes, yes. Brad Pitt, good, yes. Yeah, he's a movie star. He's a big A-list movie star.

1:14:41I could have done with maybe one less slow motion wide shot of him walking on the tracks towards the team heroically. I thought that they maybe overdid that like one too many times. But I get it. It's Brad Pitt. You want to sell your big movie star and your big movie. And they knew... He's 60. That's probably him walking at normal speed.

1:15:08He needs a stick. He needs a hand getting up. Wow.

1:15:13Chris Hewitt:Who doesn't? No, he's in very good shape for 60 isn't he he does look good so what did you make of Sonny Hayes and his journey in the film I liked it I thought he was a bit kind of wisecracking a bit too quipping at points and sometimes I was like you're getting the Brad Pitt who's reeling off quips but you're not getting depth from him sometimes I think he goes into that mode and then and it sort of switches me off a little bit I thought he was a really interesting character I really liked the scene with the press conference when the journalist was just like ruling off all this stuff and he was just like yep yep we've all interviewed people like that haven't we?

1:15:53but I thought like he's not hiding from who he is he's just here for the love of the sport and I bought that as the reason why he would keep going and through the injury and I thought that there could have been more to him I think there could have been definitely more dimension to him but as a hero for this film yeah I totally bought it yeah

1:16:15Chris Hewitt:Jimbo? Yes Great I've done with the journalist at the press conference I've asked him a closed question with a yes or no answer Is that a thing where you just sort of say lots of stuff and you're like Yeah I want them to say something and they're like Right And they don't bite at all And then when you're doing it you just go Oh God I wish I'd phrased that differently Yeah I haven't actually asked a question I've just said some stuff Yeah And then they look at you like is there a question there and you're just like Oh that happens as well Oh it's happened to me on stage in fact at least once yes you were there really yeah okay who was it it was the Lord of the Rings thing that we did and I said the whole thing is there a question there at all and I was like oh because at that point you were just reading out from the book weren't you twas the third age of middle earth

1:17:08two hobbits and a ringwraith walk into a bar

1:17:11Chris Hewitt:yeah alright right let me just check my notes uh-huh yep brundle yep good uh brundle walk yeah adhering to the rules of f1 uh sonny's backstory and his motivation for racing i thought that was quite interesting you know they wait to deploy it until quite late in the day like you don't you know what he what he feels when he's racing and the regret he feels about you know not winning when he was baby face brad pitt uh i liked it mentioned liger mansell uh the music was good i I like the intro in Daytona with Whole Lotta Love and Shea Wiggum. You put Shea Wiggum in your movie, you're already off to a good start, I would say.

1:17:54Chris Hewitt:Yeah, the crash in Las Vegas where Sonny drives angry for the first time. I thought it was interesting. One of my favorite scenes, by the way, I'm just going to finish off with this, was actually after Sonny and Kate get together and they have that big heart-to-heart in the hotel room. And then Ruben shows up at her door and is like, where's Sonny? And she's like, well, first of all, how dare you? Second of all, something else. Third of all, yeah, he's in there. So good. It's a very nicely drawn relationship. Again, I think they've learned from the playbook on Top Gun Maverick with the relationship between Pete Mitchell and Penny.

1:18:28Chris Hewitt:The Jennifer Connelly film. The Jennifer Connelly character in that film. And this movie could have been a compendium of cliches, and to an extent, of course it is. But it's more than that. and when those cliches are deployed they're done so artfully and with sort of machine tooled calibration which I really really admire I really like this film and to Alex Godfrey agreed your man's in the church boss alright that is it that is it for our F1 spoiler special I hope you guys enjoyed it or some of it or any of it hello is this thing still on keep and peeled for more spoiler specials coming your way we have a whole cavalcade of spoiler specials coming to you over the next few weeks and months, do tell your friends if they don't already subscribe or indeed your enemies in case they want to subscribe to this as well, in the meantime all that remains now is to say goodbye to my three colleagues of such lethal cunning goodbye John Nugent, a man who is about to do a very interesting and scary interview remember, no closed questions okay?

1:19:38Chris Hewitt:yes bye John bye John's got his name written in his hand that's you John by the way when I say John that's you that's you right that's right yes yes it's goodbye from Sophie Butcher goodbye goodbye goodbye goodbye it's goodbye from James Dyer I'm gonna win that's the worst Magneto yet I'm a warrior yeah that's all you got yeah alright okay and it's goodbye from me I'm off to walk in slow motion back to my desk not in actual slow motion just because I'm old and that's the way I walk these days thanks for listening see you next time bye bye