Joachim Rønning on Tron Ares: An Empire Podcast Interview Special

0:14Hello Pod, I'm Chris Hewitt and welcome to an Empire Podcast Spider Special Interview Special. This one is dedicated to Tron Ares, the third chapter in the Tron Saga. and now that the movie's been out for a couple of weeks it's time to bring you our big old chat with the film's director Joachim Ronning who sat down with our Tron whisperer Alex Godfrey who was on set of the movie and also wrote the Empire cover feature for a big old deep dive into the film and his key twists and turns it's a really fun chat this one and hopefully will answer any questions you might have after watching Tron Aries so here we go without any further to do as Carlito Brigante might say Alex and Joachim Ronning Do please enjoy.

1:24Three years of working away in secrecy. Yeah. It's draining. Stuck on the grid. Yeah. No windows. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Very similar. The film looks incredible. I mean, just from the moment it started, I felt like I was in Tron World. Great. You know, I saw it in a great little cinema screening room. it really envelopes you this film and the sound is incredible i mean it's a great so i've been listening to the nine inch nails score a lot but seeing it in context with a good hearing it in context with a good sound system um it's quite a lot yeah and that there's a lot of music in this film yeah yeah it's it's um i think like i mean music obviously the in the for tron is like embedded in in the dna you know yeah so it's it is super important you know going all the way back to wendy carlos and obviously daft punk which is like some pretty big shoots to yeah fill uh but uh and you can make a great Tron movie, but if the music is not good, it falls flat, you know?

2:48So it was such an amazing relief to get Nine Inch Nails on board. And with Trent and Atticus being such a big part of the mixing and the sound design process, sitting with my sound designers and mixers, in a very lengthy process, you know. And we had this... We tried to have some guidelines in like when it was in the mix, you know, music forward or sound design forward. So it's kind of like, I mean, the movie goes to 11, that's for sure. 1100. And it's not very well, maybe. in that sense but this is a loud film and it's almost like a concert film almost like that's yeah it did feel like that yeah like that's uh that's how i like to to look at it a little bit and how they mixed it like making the music more in the front speakers you get like that old school bass you know when you're in the in the proper theater and um so yeah it's it's it's a concert It's a very, you know, it's a census overload.

4:10It's very enveloping. And you set out your store from the beginning, from the moment that Disney, the Magic Kingdom logo comes up, and it's the grid. I mean, it was so cool seeing that logo done. And it feels like the screen opens up around you and the music kicks in. It's an incredible experience, which I guess is, I am imagining that was one of your missions from the start. I mean, as soon as this film came to you, was that something that you thought about doing? Yeah, I think the previous films, they set the bar so high. And so honestly, when I became, when I was a part of the conversation making an extra-long chapter, it was daunting, honestly, going into.

4:55And I put a lot of pressure on myself, you know, in some way, you know, being worthy of the other movies and hopefully even raising the bar, continuing to raise the bar on a technical level and on the visual and on the sound and on the music level. and yeah so so um it's um yeah we and and i also think like i've worked with on this movie had like the most amazing team you know both behind and front of camera and uh um you know the guys at industrial light magic and you know everybody there's so many fans that has worked on this film and giving it all. The script, I know, has been in development for a long time.

5:52There were lots of writers on it over the years. What shape was it in when you came on board, and did you have thoughts about what to do? Yeah, I mean, always. That's what you do as a director. You come in and you change the script around a little bit, And, you know, I worked actually a lot with Gialetto on the script and trying to get it, you know, a bit more into the Tron universe. I think in that process was when I think it was him actually that came up with the idea of going back to the original grid and like, you know, having Kevin Flynn in the original grid. Like, you know, and I flipped for that.

6:48That was something I really wanted to see and make. and obviously getting Bridges back to, you know, portray Kevin Flynn and him was some of the, I think, proudest moments in the process for me. Yeah. Seeing the two of them act together in front of the camera is the closest thing to magic, you know. Ares is a really interesting character. And, you know, a couple of times watching the film, he almost reminded me of C-3PO. Yeah. You know, because. Did you tell Jared that? No. You can tell him. Because he's just, he's a program and he's just spouting all this information and there's a sort of neutrality about it.

7:35Yeah. And he doesn't really understand humor. Yeah, yeah. Certainly early on he's quite dry. Yeah, yeah. But he's learning from people. Yeah. Was that an interesting challenge for you in terms of how to pitch that tonally with that character? we've got someone who's not human and he's programmed he's a program but you're giving him personality on top of that I think it was very challenging for him for Jared Leto to play because he's such a stoic character I would call him more than we talked about him being like a samurai of sorts that not one movement is wasted at least for the beginning of the film and he was very nervous about it like yeah but i think it helped him tremendously and maybe that's where some of the c3po reference comes in when he put on the suit yeah you know because in previous tron movies the suits have been you know almost uh you know just soft trickles you know it's like it's it's um yeah and then this one we wanted it to be more military and and rigid and i think that kind of also limited his movement and it helped it helped him uh and yeah it informed him about this character let's talk about athena as well because she on the whole does not deviate she is very she has tunnel vision this is what i'm here to do and i'm going to do it at any cost yeah um but there are i think which also represents people in real life you know and people following orders and not thinking for themselves.

9:18I think it's a little bit a mirror to that. But it's interesting, isn't it? Because there were a couple of small moments later on in the film where you see glimmers of the fact that maybe she is waking up to it a little bit. There's a shot with her, if I'm remembering, there's water coming down on her. And it's almost like she's feeling it and going, this is new. Yeah. This is different. And you can feel like maybe there is a chance for her to deviate from that path. But she obviously snaps out of it. Doesn't quite get there. Yeah. No, I think the water element was something that I really like as a symbol for the real life.

9:58It's something they haven't felt before or smelled before, you know. I'm imagining the grid being smell-less. I was on it. I don't remember it smelling. Yeah. anything I smelled that day was the burrito that was being cooked in the microwave and that shot I remember you were there and I don't think that shot is in the movie no because I remember it well he does cook it the microwave is there but you scaled that down I remember people saying don't write about the burrito I think we saw 8 takes of that burrito we've taken out I know you were basically the hour or two you were there it was all about the burrito yeah i mean i saw some more yeah but yeah so the light i knew there was obviously going to be some light cycle action in this film um i don't know how enormous that big sequence i mean it's the light cycle chase in this film is immense yeah and sprawling i mean it takes place over like you must have shot that over behalf of Vancouver.

11:06Yeah, yeah. And you know what I assumed I spoke to Jody earlier on today, and I assumed a lot of it would have done on soundstage. She said she didn't do any of that on soundstage. She said it was all location, which is incredible. But I wanted to ask you about that. Because when we spoke for the magazine for the cover story I did, you told me that your father used to own a record store, and he started doing VHSs. And you used to watch the original Tron 1982 Tron light cycle chase over and over again. Yeah, yeah. And any car chase like Blues brothers and like all these you know even herbie you know right yeah herbie were fun films yeah but um but you your version of a light cycle chase is is insane i mean it must be about 15 minutes or something in this film yeah and it's incredible what was it like to tackle it yeah uh daunting uh going into that because i think for a lot of fans and you know me included the light cycle is such a strong symbol yeah so i i really wanted to like okay let's this we have to take to the next level and again with these kind of films you you have the resources to to go there and we were able to to build real light cycles and i could put my cameras on the light you know on the bikes themselves yeah and and you know so that you have that interaction with the rain and which is also part of the story, you know, the real world.

12:30And so I just wanted to, like, try and knock it out of the park when it came to the light cycle. And we worked, I think, we shot for almost six weeks or nights to get it. It pays off. It feels really tangible, especially when they go into the car park, you know, and it's like these two warriors. Yeah, and that was also very important for me, having that little pause of suspense in the middle of a chase you know so it's not just like an a to z chase it has that little moment where we can really build on like and and i i spent so much time like coming up with that set piece you know and i i walked all over vancouver trying to find okay where can we find and i found this uh what do you call like that circular parkade yeah i know like the the spiral yeah and i thought okay this is cool this is i can do something here yeah you know and i can create that suspense you know that t1000 that's it coming after her and you have obviously with that geography you have the potential for these sheer drops yeah of someone falling down yeah yeah absolutely and it's i was i like i was very excited when i found that location i'm thinking okay i can design something here yeah uh and uh so so uh and spent a lot of time doing that and yeah it's incredible yeah um when did tepeche mode come into this film it's been uh it it came with like a a shared love like between jared and myself like a a shared love of of everything 80s i think okay you know obviously they're they're still going yeah and they've made music after the 80s but but for me it's like it brings me back to when i was growing up and i i tried to as much as possible honestly like making homage to the 80s this movie in many ways this little easter eggs from the previous tron films but also from other films that I grew up with and, you know, films that made me want to become a filmmaker and music and, you know, and I think music is such a beautiful emotional art form and nostalgic.

14:52And I love using that as part of the Kevin Flynn, you know, test of Ares. Well, it's interesting you talk about the Easter eggs just now. I noticed the van in the film with the Shadix logo. And I was like, what? I know that name. I looked it up. And that was Steven Lissberger's character in the second film, right? Yeah. I even shot the scene with Lissberger. He was on set. And it just ended up, it didn't work in the film. It was actually a slightly comedic thing where as they come to that van outside the Dillinger hangar, and they sit in and they hear a sound and they turn and there's like a maintenance worker in the van and that was Lisberger.

15:46And I shot this scene and as they floor it, he flies out the back of the van and we had a stunt doing it and it was really funny, but it wasn't totally right, I felt. So unfortunately, it ended up on the floor. Well, there's no floor anymore. You have Blu-rays. yeah yeah yeah i think they're talking about putting that as a deleted scene yeah i would hope so yeah yeah he deserves it he was there for half a day yeah falling around into the in this uh in this van you know uh i'd love to see it and that's that's that's where shaddix came from that was why the van was called okay the maintenance company now makes sense um so this is a spoiler chat i want to talk about elizabeth dillinger's death because that's a big moment in the film you know that's like it reminded me a bit of um was it in the force awakens where kylo ren kills his dad you know han solo and and and spoilers sorry folks and you haven't seen that either i know yeah for his awakens i know come on um so this one you've So, you know, I didn't sign up for that.

17:01Yeah, so this is not Julian killing her, but it's kind of his fault. Yeah, I think so. And it's a big moment. And that sort of changes the game for Julian because he's like, by this point, he hasn't really cared about any of the damage he's causing or any of the people who are dying. But suddenly that brings it home for him. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. it's suddenly becomes ultra real you know and he realizes what he has created and that he has created a monster basically you know which is the little Frankenstein kind of thing there you know but yeah yeah I liked it as just what you said, as a device for realising that it's kind of like, you know, if we are lucky enough to create another chapter after this film, I like to see where Dillinger can go.

18:18Well, it's set up, isn't it? Yeah. It's set up at the end. Yeah, exactly. And then being blamed by his mother on, you know, as she's dying, she says, you did this, you know. Yeah, it'd be interesting to see what direction that takes him in. Yeah, exactly. That's like the creation of a villain, if you ask me. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how much salvation there is for that guy, but I guess we'll see. Yeah. You mentioned getting back on the OG grid and Flynn being in the film. It's a beautiful sequence. And you've got Flynn's arcade in there. Yeah. it must have been magical seeing Jeff on those set, it must have been magical for him to be on the sets that he was on 40 years ago it was one of the best experiences of my career to work with Jeff Bridges and to I think it's hard to make a Tron chapter without the character of Kevin Flynn in some capacity and again you never really know these things when you go into it, his scene was always in the script but we didn't have the deal with him done okay as we start even after starting shooting the movie so it was put at the end of the schedule and i was like it's it's it's always some uncertainty around you know lawyers and agents and all that stuff and uh but we got it done and and i remember the first day he walks up out on on the set as kevin flynn in character and everybody just applause, you know.

19:46I'm sure. And then seeing him and Jared, you know, Ares and Kevin Flynn on the original grid for me, like on my little monitor on set, it's, you're right, it is. Sometimes we do feel like it's magic. Yeah. That was one of those times. It is movie magic. Yeah. Let's talk about Athena. I mean, towards the end, so you've got the giant recognizer invading, I mean, it's not called Vancouver in the film, but. basically the real world and yeah she's not turning back on her mission but that's it's an amazing image of that thing coming down the streets and causing havoc it's like yeah that's not the camera yeah that's island okay that's all island that's good to know but talk about um her death scene is incredible as well i mean she she has it coming to her but it's she's she's an incredible character and that's an incredible performance yeah just talk to me about um maybe discussions you had about how to do that yeah what i mean we had i talked a lot with jody turner smith about her character and uh uh i it it was it was i think she um it's to her um um uh credit um the the this the little portions of humanity that comes out through Athena, I would say it's a lot to do with Jodie and how she wanted to play her.

21:17I think if she could have chosen, she would have gone even further. But I liked the idea of Athena feeling betrayed by Ares and making it personal somehow and then realizing

21:43that even programs can change somehow, you know. Yeah. And it's part of the emotional core of the film, that ending, I feel. And I'm always drawn to that as a filmmaker, as a storyteller. I need that. Well, it's mythical, isn't it, I guess? Yeah, exactly. Exactly, and I need that kind of dramatic heart in films that I do. So it can be spectacle and it can be big and all that, but if that doesn't work, it's a non-starter somehow. So just so grateful that I got to have this amazing ensemble to portray these roles. and some roles are very, very hard to play, you know, because they're stoic, you know.

22:34Yeah. Well, she's amazing. Yeah, she was great. So we've got time for one more question. And I want to ask, for me, this film seems, if anything, more of a continuation of the original one than the second one because it's all about Kevin Flynn's legacy. And obviously you go back to the OG grid. Sam Flynn is mentioned at the beginning of this film. And so you deal with that. But at the very end, you have Ares, he's become a real boy, or he's on the way, and he's there out in the world, and he goes off to find Korra from Legacy. He obviously thinks... It's good that you caught that, because that's in a glimpse.

23:17Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, well, you know. No, it's there, it's there. Absolutely. He's like, there's another one of me out here. Very conscious choice. Yeah. But that's interesting, isn't it? Because if you do get to do another one of these, I guess that's something that you might want to explore, bringing Olivia Wilde back and getting those two characters together, two programs in the real world. Yeah, absolutely. How much has that been discussed? Not much. Okay. A little bit. I think right now we will see, I guess by the time this interview comes out, you'll have the box office numbers and that, as most things in Hollywood, will dictate if there's, you know, or if it's another 15 years until there's a next chapter.

24:05Well, it's an interesting tease either way. So I hope it happens. I mean, she was a great character. It'd be interesting to merge these two worlds. Yeah, and I love, we really try to, and I also, as a fan, I just wanted to see it, and I wanted to live in the hope, you know, of seeing them together. That would be amazing. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks so much. That was a great chat. Thanks for your time. Yeah, great. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Okay, that was Joachim Ronin, the Roninman himself, talking about Tron Aries, which is still in cinemas now. our other Tron Aries spoiler special in which I sit down with James Dyer Helen O 'Hara and John Nugent and discuss our thoughts and feelings about the movie it's also available on the spoiler special subscription feed so if you haven't listened to that then give it a whirl it's a ton of fun oh and keep them peeled for more spoiler specials coming your way over the next weeks and months including Black Phone 2 with Scott Derrickson Predator Badlands Predator Predator Badlands with Dan Trachtenberg Frankenstein with Guillermo del Toro The Running Man not The Running Man with Edgar Wright and many, many more.

25:10Tell all your friends about us. And as ever, thank you for your continued support. Right, that's enough from me. It's time to go off grid. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Bye bye.