Jurassic Street: Cull De Sac (ft. guest Matt Johnson)

22:19Odyssey, The Odyssey? The Odyssey. But it does have Fabergé eggs in it, so it goes all right.

22:23Chris Hewitt:It does have Fabergé eggs, and a bit where Bond dresses up as a clown. That's right, and he is funny. The 13th Star Trek is Star Trek Beyond. Better or worse than The Odyssey? It's worse than The Odyssey, James. I refuse to answer on the grounds my answer may incriminate me. I would say The Odyssey has a lot of things going for it. It does not have beats or shouting. Actually, it does have both. It does, but it doesn't have sabotage by the Beastie Boys. It doesn't have sabotage by the beast. No, that's true. I put it to you. Yeah, that's it. That's the one thing. That's what it's got. That's the one thing we have going for it.

22:53Chris Hewitt:Star Wars? Are you happy to hit 13 in Star Wars yet? So good. So we've got nine, ten. Eight technically, but yes. Nine plus Rogue One plus Solo plus The Mandalorian and Grogu. So we're not actually a 13. Not there yet. All to play for. Well, do we count Battlefront or Battle... No. Battlefront. No, Caravan of Courage. Okay. All right. So MCU. I'm not sure I count The Mandalorian and Grogu. Captain America's Civil War, I believe. Is that the 13th? Is it? I just did a quick look and I think that's the 13th. It's definitely better than the Odyssey. Many of the same people. Yeah. Well. I mean, genuinely.

23:27But it's great. One of the same people. Is it better than the Odyssey? I tell you this. If I had to watch one of those films, it wouldn't be the Odyssey.

23:38Chris Hewitt:I can't answer this question. No, I know. You're just too torn. That's fair. I'm too torn. Yeah. It's a choice. You're like Nutty and Bruglia. Do I watch Captain America Civil War again? Or do I watch Captain America Civil War again? It's such a toughie. It's such a toughie. But there you go. And I think that's pretty much it, right? There's probably a couple of hits, 13, but I don't even know what the 13th Carry On was. Carry On, Look at My Boobs. I believe that's what it's called. Actually, I know a lot of people who would go see Carry On, Look at My Boobs. I would write Carry On, Look at My Boobs.

24:12Chris Hewitt:Wow. Yeah. I'm surprised you haven't already. I've just finished. That's actually a line for the film. Oh, come on. I'm liking... Hang on. Carry on, don't lose your head. That was like a Barbossa or Sid James. I couldn't really tell. That was King Charles III playing Sid James. I think it was carry on, don't lose your head. That's a good one. Yeah, but it's grammatically upsetting. Yeah. Carry on, don't lose your head. Yeah, there's no comma though. Oh, fuck off. right so if you want to have your question read out on the Ember Podcast you can do so by getting in touch with me on Instagram or you can sign up at DMs on Blue Sky or Twitter where I am still lurking to this day and if the question is good enough we will read it out we may not read out your name that may get lost in the shuffle oh god but we'll try and correct that in a future episode not next week though because I'm not here you're not here I'm not here next week so it'll be the week after that we give the person who asked that question, they're due credit.

25:14Chris Hewitt:All right, should we have a little break? Let's. And then we'll come back and we'll talk about what passes for movie news. Enjoy. We are back, folks. We are back, back, back, and it's time to dig deep into the world of movie news. There's not a lot, I'll be honest, but something did seem to break just before we started recording Hell's Bells. Yeah, well, we were just talking about an article about Barbie 2. Right. And the word is that they are having trouble, that Warner Brothers are having trouble making a deal because they didn't want to give the cast and crew that much more money or certainly as much more money as the cast and crew felt was appropriate.

25:53And they have so far failed to close a deal. And there is a bit of a ticking clock on this because if they don't do it within a certain amount of time, the rights revert back to the toy company. So they kind of have to get a shimmy on. And apparently there were no clauses for first look options and so on for the sequel. So even though Greta Gerwig and Noah Baumbach have an idea, have a concept, have a plan for the Barbie 2 script, David Zaslav and the Warner Brothers team have failed to close a deal for them to make it, which is pretty crazy. I will say this is more common with female-led films than it maybe should be.

26:33So if you remember, there was quite a long time before the second Wonder Woman with Patty Jenkins returning was greenlit because they didn't really want to give her an uplift. They may have also read the script, to be fair. But they didn't know at that point it was going to be Wonder Woman 1984. But they just didn't give her the kind of uplift that is absolutely standard in mail contracts and is almost not even questioned. It doesn't seem to happen. there was stories all the way back to the first Wives Club those three women took a pay cut to get that film made because the studio were like look this is an untried concept these women in their 40s and 50s doing this film like we don't know if anyone's going to go see it we can't pay you all like leading lady fees so they took a pay cut it was a massive hit and then the studio wanted them to do the sequel for the same pay cut and this is the kind of thing that keeps happening again and again in Feehaled films the same pay cut or the same pay rate the same pay rate as the same cut rate of pay.

27:33And this is the kind of thing that keeps happening again and again. And it's not great that it's happening to Barbie, a bona fide smash hit that won a bunch of Oscar nominations and indeed Oscars. But anyway, apparently that's the holdup in announcing Barbie 2. If they can't reach a deal, they will have to completely reboot from scratch. They can't use any of the sort of concepts and sort of spin that Greta Gerwig brought to it, as my understanding in the article. so that's going to be interesting that was in Variety I'm not sure it's a bad thing that we don't get a second Barbie I mean to be fair they could do something really interesting with it my worry would be is that Barbie is so it's such a good film it's so well executed it's a great spin on that idea again it's my pissing in the pool thing I almost don't want it to be sullied by an inferior sequel I maybe would rather it be one and done what if they'd said the same about Bond back in 1962 or Alien we'd never have had Octopussy which as we've agreed

28:35Chris Hewitt:is better than the Odyssey James Cameron had gone into that room and started writing Alien on a board then did his little thing with the S and the dollar sign and they went sorry mate we're good one and done one and done that's our motto here at 20th Century Fox don't piss in our pool yeah why is he pissing in our pool anyway why do we have a pool in the middle of this meeting room this is such a weird layout this is where they spend all their money yeah think James think but I'm just saying we would be in a better world now if Patty Jenkins had not made Wonder Woman 1984 so yeah but you can say that about loads of directors who were automatically given a pay lift for the sequel would we be in a better world definitely has your life been affected negatively by the existence of Wonder Woman 1984 yes I watched it okay right and those two hours you would have spent so productively 100 % yes but look I mean look a sequel more of a good thing is a good thing right if you can do that if you can continue something and make it better then great and certain films feel like they lend themselves to sequels more than others I just think Barbie exists as a really really nice self-contained thing I don't think it's screaming out for a continuation of the story beyond its ability to make lots of money personally interestingly I've just read that Chris Nolan Emma Thomas Emily Blunt and Cillian Murphy have also not closed their deals for Oppenheimer 2.

29:57Chris Hewitt:Oppenheimers. Yeah. So we're denied Barbenheimer 2. It would be amazing. I would genuinely love if they do make a Barbie 2 that Chris Nolan has to make Oppenheimer 2 and it has to come out on the same day. Two Barbie, two Heimer. Yes. Two Barbie, two Heimer. All right. Chris Van Allen though is having a relatively good week because The Odyssey has passed the billion mark. It's I think 1.12 at this stage. So it's his highest-grossing film. Yay. a long time after his last billion dollar grocer which you kind of forget how long it's been what was his last billion dollar Dark Knight Rises was it? but it's really really good to see that just because it means you know this one really broke through and also it changes the worldwide chart for this year and knocks some films I didn't like down a little bit so Michael and Super Mario Galaxy are now you know falling down behind the Odyssey, Toy Story 5 and of course Spider-Man Brand New Day at the top There's$5 billion grocers so far this year, isn't there?

30:56Yeah, yeah.

30:57Chris Hewitt:Which is interesting. And you'd assume that Doomsday will become the 6th. And there's a chance that June Part 3 might become the 7th, although I don't think it will. I don't think it will. I hope it does, but I don't think it will. I mean, I think Project Hail Mary was, what, 680-something. June 3 is probably around similar numbers. Yeah, I would say so. Hopefully. Where do you think Brand New Day will end up? it's a brand new day at the moment it's 1.7 billion yeah that's so funny and is that's 10 days in I guess 10 days in it's I think it's gonna end up around 2 2.5 that's what I'm gonna say but that is just a wild fucking guess I know isn't it so it might well become what one of the three biggest films of all time possibly you just you just don't know but it's It's kind of amazing that we're in this situation.

31:54Chris Hewitt:So yeah, if it hits 2.5, it'll become the third biggest film of all time. So I think that's kind of where it's got to be looking, right? Yeah, fingers crossed. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed it. I wasn't on when we reviewed that. I really enjoyed the film, but it's not even the best Tom Holland Spider-Man film, so it is kind of nuts that it's making this kind of money. A lot of people think it is, though. I know a lot of people. They're maybe not in this room. Many, many fine people. And I liked the movie a lot, but I know a lot of people who think it's the best one for me it is not the best one but it's a very very good very good film very good yeah very good film very good Spider-Man film very good MCU film ticks a lot of boxes and clearly honestly the success of this movie is really really interesting to me like where has it come from yeah you know given that last year Marvel we're basically we're in a sandwich board going come and please see the Thunderbolts I mean we'll put the Avengers in the title Would that help?

32:50Chris Hewitt:Would that help? That's a really good film. You should come and see The Thunderbolts. Please, sir. Can I have another half a billion dollars? I've only made just under half a billion dollars and it's not enough. There'll be people watching Spider-Man Brand New Day who will be seeing... Oh, that's a spoiler. A character from The Thunderbolts movie for the first time. Yes. And they'll be going, who is this character from that movie? And they'll have to go back. And then they'll go, oh man, I should have seen The Thunderbolts movie when it came out last year. Well, I'm very pleased for Marvel who get to sit back and watch Sony rake in all this money.

33:26They get a little bit. They get a little bit. They get a little kickback. They get a little taste.

33:30Chris Hewitt:A little taste as well. But Sony is doing very, very well. Very, very well. What if it's became the highest-grossing MCU movie? I mean... It's a chance. It's got a chance. Oh, come on, dude. What can't it do? I just... It would upset me. Just for that, I'm going to see it 500 more times. I bet you will. We've got to push it over the edge. Avengers Endgame is just shy of$2.8 billion. Now, this is tricky, because Avengers Endgame is being re-released next month in September as Endgame Encore. Now, the very fact is called Endgame Encore. It has a little bit more footage, so they can't add its takings to Avengers Endgame.

34:10Chris Hewitt:So this isn't like a diddle. I was about to say, what are the rules on that? Because lots of re-releases do contribute to the overall box office. Is it changing the title? is it changing because like well the title has changed it's not even Avengers Endgame Encore it's just Endgame Encore why have they done that I don't know why I don't know well that's what the trailer was certainly when they showed at Comic Con because I wonder if because I would feel if were I doing it I would try and add a little bit of cumulative gross to the overall thing to push my numbers up yeah try and get it above Avatar again right and it's not like films have not released different cuts and done that so yeah I don't know we shall see we shall see if Endgame suddenly leaps above Avatar, but we'd have to make another 140 million.

34:52Chris Hewitt:It's not beyond the realm of possibility. I mean, it's been a while. People might go back and see it on the big screen. I can't wait to go back and see it on the big screen. It's very, very exciting. I saw it one or two or nine times when it came out, but I'll probably see it again. Nine times. Nine times. Okie dokie, anything else you want to talk about in the world of movie news? There was a trailer for Paper Tiger this week, which is the new James Gray film. with Adam Driver and Miles Teller playing brothers, Gary and Irwin, with Scarlett Johansson as Irwin's wife, Hester. So she's married to Miles Teller in this.

35:27We don't have to worry about her getting divorced from Adam Driver again.

35:31Chris Hewitt:So, okay. So it's Black Widow, Reed Richards, and the man who probably turned down Reed Richards. Yes. They are together again at last. The idea is that basically the brothers got involved in a scheme that was too good to be true. I think Adam Driver seems to be running from maybe mayor of New York or is mayor of New York. I only watched the trailer once. And now they're in trouble with the Russian mob who are targeting them. And Adam Driver's all like, don't worry, it's fine. I'm the mayor, they can't touch me. And Miles Heller's like, I'm not the mayor, they can touch me. What the fuck? So, yeah.

36:06Chris Hewitt:Well, I'm sure it'll all have a happy ending. And as all James Gray movies do, it always works out for the protagonists. Always works out, yeah. They just have the best time. So good. The best time. So cozy. We are recording this podcast before D23 probably kicks off. Our Ben Travis is going out to Anaheim to witness it firsthand. He's on a plane right now. I can't help but feeling that the leaked X-Men casting rumors will be confirmed officially on stage at some point during D23. You think? It seems likely at this point, because they're leaking like a sieve at the moment. Okay, so leak, James, this is not a force in a sentence, but leak over me, James.

36:45Chris Hewitt:What is... Well, we've... Samara Weaving is linked with Emma Frost at the moment. Yeah, we talked about that. Kit Connors is obviously linked with Cyclops as well. Kit Conner, yeah. There is another from Heartbreaker, Heartstopper. God, I'm missaying everything at the moment. Missaying? Is that even a word? I don't know. What is happening? Should we start the podcast again? Yeah, let's do it again. All right. Bangly bang! Oh, yeah, my podcast this week. Oh, gosh. He's back for the second time in just a few weeks. What have we had for lunch? We haven't had a Bodine's. What's Modine's? Well, you should have a Soho special.

37:18Chris Hewitt:Something to do with Five Guys, lots of sex jokes, the end. Right. The 13th movie by a director. Oh, God. I think it's Lawrence of Arabia, guys, but it might be Captain America Civil War. What was the 13th Soho special you ate? I don't know. I don't know. It was a long time ago. It was probably the first week I had a Soho special because honestly, guys, you do not understand how good these things were. They were, it was incredible. I feel like we could move back to where we were. Back to where we were? All right. Anyway. So Kit Connor. Kit Connor may be Cyclops. Yes, he may be Psyposs. Indy Navarrete from, and that's probably a weird way to pronounce that name, from Obsession might be Mystique.

37:50Chris Hewitt:Yeah. And Samara Weaving might be Emma Frost. Yes. Was it Tom Pelfrey as well, potentially? Oh, I haven't seen this one. Professor X. Who the fuck is that? Professor X. He's bald. He's psychic. I know who Professor X is. Thank God for that. Who is Tom Pelfrey? Tom Pelfrey most recently was in Task with Mark Ruffalo, set in the Mayor of Easttown universe. He's really, really good. And yes, he was in the latter seasons of My Beloved Banshee, Jonathan Tropper's show. He's very good. He's really, really good in Task. I would have thought they'd gone for a big name for Professor X. Although they were saying that Christopher Abbott might also be in the running for that.

38:30Chris Hewitt:Who knows? He's a slightly bigger name. Even then, like not super big. Yeah, he doesn't strike me as the sort of guy. I've interviewed Christopher Abbott. Obviously, he was in The Wolfman. But he doesn't strike me as the sort of guy who will embrace franchises necessarily. Yeah, I think that's probably fair. It's interesting. They're clearly skewing younger, which I think is the right way to go. I think Kit Conner's a really interesting cyclops because he's so likable in Heartstopper. I think he's got a really solid, centered kind of energy, which I think would be quite good for that role. I mean, a lot of this stuff obviously is still rumored.

39:07it hasn't been officially confirmed, but I can't help feeling that they are going to do it and it feels like D23 is the time and place to do it. Yeah, it does. So I'm very excited about this. Yeah. Even if you're a Marvel skeptic at the moment, even if you do feel that it's a little bit lost its way, the X-Men is exciting and it seems like they're going for a very young generation of X-Men, which is, I think, definitely the way to go as well. Because I also think you want to distance yourself from... It's going to be weird seeing a young Logan that's going to be strange. I don't necessarily know

39:40Chris Hewitt:that he'll be young. Logan doesn't have to be young. No, he doesn't. Logan could be middle-aged. And you also don't need to bring him in the first wave. I think you do. I kind of think you do because he's... I mean, I think you're right in that we're not that far away from Deadpool and Wolverine. Hugh Jackman is Wolverine so it's a really hard thing to do and especially if you don't go young then you're putting someone up against Hugh Jackman. And that's a difficult thing to do. I also wouldn't be surprised if Hugh Jackman's in Secret Wars. so I don't think that they'll have a Wolverine in this movie yet.

40:10But it's hard to imagine an X-Men story without Wolverine. I know, obviously, there are many, many wonderful X-Men, but Wolverine is the best. I agree, but I still think they're not going to have him in this one. And that may be a sound tactical decision on their part, yeah, I would say. But, yeah, I can't think how, because Hugh Jackman is so synonymous with that role. I don't know how you move on from that. yeah

40:38Chris Hewitt:it's going to be tricky maybe they don't do it in this movie maybe they do it in the next movie maybe that's the Christopher Abbott role maybe yeah he'd be more of a Wolverine than a Professor X in my head canon obviously we have not seen these people's screen tests we haven't seen their chemistry tests I'm sure this Tom Pilfrey again rumor it was rumored on a podcast so I mean that could be nonsense no but yeah I'm seeing it on lots of news here as well I'm sure he's been balled up for screen tests and all sorts of stuff. And yeah, I mean, we shall see. It's going to be very, very interesting, the makeup of these characters.

41:17Chris Hewitt:So, you know, Mystique, Emma Frost, these are potential bad guys. I'm reading Adam Driver maybe in the mix, finally to make a Marvel movie, but as a bad guy. And what will the team be? So if it is Cyclops and it is potentially, I don't know if there's a Jean Grey in the mix at some point is it going to be the classic the classic X-Men team that started off in the comics is it going to be that five is it going to be Cyclops and Beast and Jean Grey and Angel and Iceman is that what it's going to be it could be something like that it could be or are they going to throw in a Nightcrawler are they going to throw in a Storm there's been rumors about both of those there's been rumors that Storm's going to be in Black Panther 3 Well you've also got to think about the fact that this isn't like we're doing an X-Men movie it's like we're beginning an X-Men chapter of this universe and they do want to keep their powder dry don't they?

42:13Like they've got so many great characters you probably don't want to drop them all at the beginning you do want to pace yourself and you want different stories with different characters and different textures they are probably kind of like portioning them all out and working how these things will fit together that's very exciting

42:26Chris Hewitt:How's it going to work? So we have an X-Men, we have an X-Men team in Doomsday I'm sure there'll be an X-Men team in Secret Wars. It may even be this X-Men team, but it seems to me like they are going to set up, in this MCU world, they're going to set up the fact that Charles Xavier is already in this world. We just haven't become aware of him, and he's been slowly recruiting people, kids for his school for gifted youngsters, and Cyclops, Scott Summers may be one of them, and Jean Grey may be another, and we get there and there's Beast, and there's Warren Worthington, and all those guys. but how the other X-Men team from Doomsday fits into it the classic yeah the Fox team yeah the Fox team the Marsdens and the Cummings and the Romains yeah that's going to be interesting I don't know how that's going to work out because it works in Deadpool Wolverine because it's it's not really part of the main playing board but yeah this this brings it all into direct canon rather than canon adjacency but I still think that but it's all multiversal isn't it yeah and I think as a result Jackman might be in Secret Wars I can see that I'm talking about new Wolverines I don't think but we shall see how they get there it's not our job to figure that one out that is for the Russos and Steve McFeely to figure out so good luck guys good luck with that one and of course Jake Shrider who's directing this movie this X-Men movie so we shall see what happens they are making a sequel to Jurassic World near Sid Park Jurassic World Rebirth but not with Gareth Edwards who has dropped out.

43:59I heard they couldn't afford him anymore after the jolly they sent James on last time. It's true. Yeah, most of the budget went on my trip to Thailand.

44:08Chris Hewitt:You laugh, but it's probably true. So what do we make of this? First of all, I didn't know that this was happening. So it was a surprise to me when I read that he had dropped out of a film I didn't know existed. Yeah, so it's apparently creative differences, but we don't know what that means that can mean anything from they want me to go faster than I'm comfortable with. The script is still three notes on a cocktail napkin with question mark next to them. Or it could mean they want to have dinosaurs flying fighter jets and I just can't figure out a way to do that creatively or anything in between.

44:43You know, it's always a very kind of slippery thing. Or it may literally just be, I don't vibe with this. I don't feel where they're going. I think that's probably it. I mean, just having interviewed Gareth about it, don't get me wrong, he was so excited at the opportunity to make a Jurassic Park film. It's a dream for him. And I think he actually had a good experience doing it, unlike, say, Star Wars. But equally, beyond getting paid a lot of money, because Rebirth did well, I do wonder whether he'd actually rather go off and do something else. I interviewed him, I saw him in Thailand. It was his last ever interview for Rebirth before he was going off to work on other projects.

45:23And he was so excited at the prospect of just flying home and just on the plane, just getting out a blank pad and just noodling ideas, you know. And I think, you know, the creator, I think, was a mixed blessing for him because obviously it didn't do that well and it was difficult, but it was a great film. And honestly, I would like to see Gareth do more films like that, like original films, like wild ideas, just run amok, because that was such a great film and it should have done a lot better than it did. So weirdly for him, I think this is good news. For Jurassic, maybe less so because I actually think he's really good.

45:56But yeah, I'm really interested to see what he does next. Yeah, 100%. Absolutely. And also interested to see who they get in for this. And you know, dinosaurs with fighter jets. I think it could work. Yeah. Just call me.

46:08Chris Hewitt:Yeah, sounds good. I don't care. And where's Storm and Wolverine fit into this? Where do they? Yeah, they're definitely going to be there. Yeah, they'll call it Jurassic World, the Savage Land. Oh my God, I kind of... That would be kind of amazing. Oh dear. How many X-Men movies do we have to have before we can go to the savage land, do we think? Oh, hang on. What's the 13th X-Men movie? Have there been 13? Oh yeah. Yeah. I'm going to get increasingly high pitched. We did a ranking. There was about 14 or 15. Oh, because you're including like, okay, the spin-offy type of things. You get the three initial X-Men movies.

46:47Chris Hewitt:then there's the four there's the four of those then there's three Deadpools then there's three Wolverines three Wolverines three Wolverines Jesus yeah so we're we're already up to 13 New Mutants everyone how could you possibly forget that well the 13th apparently was the New Mutants oh that's not is it better than the Odyssey I don't think it's better than the Odyssey no yeah but it's interesting isn't the makeup of the X-Men team if it is the classic X-Men team thank God that Jean Grey is there. Because you know what, Helen? Yeah. Otherwise, that'd be five guys. Oh, boy. And we're back to the Zoho special.

47:24Yeah, we are.

47:25Chris Hewitt:The reason I say that is because this week's guest has directed a movie called Tony, which is not a biopic, but a snapshot of the younger Anthony Bourdain, the brilliant food writer and cook, who, of course, passed away a few years ago. This is based on his early years. Yeah, he's kind of learning stuff despite himself. Despite himself. He goes to Cape Cod for the summer, basically following a girl, and gets a job in a kitchen just to keep himself afloat, and then does everything wrong, and is a general disaster of a human being. Sounds good. But maybe there's the nugget of someone great within him.

48:05Chris Hewitt:A great cook, a great writer, a great mind at work there. And the movie is, of course, Tony. He is played in the film by Dominic Sessa. He's terrific, isn't he? I haven't seen that film, but I would be amazed if he's not brilliant in it. And the director is, of course, Matt Johnson, who just a couple of weeks ago directed James' favorite film of the year, and they're a fan of the band, the show, the movie. Director also of Blackberry, and just a real live wire of a director. And we sent on Zoom, I think it was, Amon Warman to have a chat with him a couple of weeks ago. So here now is that chat.

48:44Chris Hewitt:Do please enjoy. uh we are delighted to be joined on the empire podcast by the director of tony mr matt johnson how are you sir i'm wonderful i've been on this podcast for empire before haven't i i think so for nirvana the band the show the movie yeah yeah that's right yeah yeah oh yeah empire school nice to meet you nice to meet you and yes you are the director of that film as well which made our list of the best films released in the uk this year so far uh very well deserved i watched it recently had a great time um when did you start to realize that people were really connecting with that movie and what have the last few months been like for you as you see more and more people seek out that

49:27Matt Johnson:movie and connect with it i gotta be honest it's been quite strange because you know i live in toronto in canada and we'd been making that show for 20 years and uh to see the explosion in popularity that's happened just in the last six months has been surreal to say the least. But I've just been grateful. It's deeply humbling that people like that. I mean, it's a group of less than 10 friends who make it. And in some ways, it's like a little private secret and so it's uh it has an outsized um uh uh reaction based on uh what we thought it would be yeah it is secret no more and uh yeah thank you for sharing that with us again it's a really really fun film as is tony i had a really really good time watching this i guess the first place to start with this is what was your relationship to anthony bourdain before this movie a great question.

50:27Matt Johnson:And the answer I think is maybe surprising to a lot of people, but none, I barely even knew who he was. Like I obviously knew him as a cultural figure, but I would say normal, nor, no more than I would have known. Like I knew Gordon Ramsey better, you know, like, like, uh, uh, so I didn't, I didn't have, I would say the best way of putting this is I didn't have any baggage. The worst way is to say I was totally ignorant, but I like making movies about things that I know nothing about because it allows me to operate from the point of view of an audience and get curious about what exactly it is that is relevant or cool or demanding of interest of this person or this thing or this process or whatever.

51:14Matt Johnson:Like I made a movie about the first smartphone called Blackberry. And I know nothing about that world at all. But I view it as a strength as opposed to a weakness because yeah, it's just, there's something that I think audiences want to see. They want to see things from the point of view of a newcomer to that, as opposed to an expert, because to become an expert at something, you kind of need to know everything and and you have to present a point of view that's unassailable whereas what i'm trying to do is is tell a story that is in some ways universal yeah that's so interesting to me because i you're also a co-writer on this movie and this film was based in part on kitchen confidential anthony bourdain's book how did you zero in on the period of bourdain's life to show in this film?

52:08Because I think that's one of the major strengths of this film in doing that, because you, I think, in doing that, avoid some biopic tropes that you could have maybe otherwise fallen into.

52:20Matt Johnson:It's a great point and a great question. And I felt like I understood what it was like to be a young man trying to prove himself desperately. And I thought I had something to say about that. And when I met Dominic Sessa, I saw that he was going through this exact same thing at this time in his life. And I thought, ah, this is such a great marriage of me having just gone through this myself and him going through it now. And Anthony Bourdain having gone through it in the 1970s. And the three of us can conspire to tell a story about what it means to be a young man becoming an adult and how painful that can be.

52:58Matt Johnson:And, um, and some of the traps you can fall for. Uh, and, and so that was, that was our goal. Let's make a movie about just that. And when you cast Dominic Sessa, who is fantastic in this, just as he was in The Holdovers, are you telling him to seek out stuff for Anthony Bourdain, or are you telling him not to do that? I told him, I said, don't touch a thing. Literally, I told him not to do anything. Now, of course, I wanted him to be comfortable in kitchens. I wanted him to have, um, some, uh, I gave him a copy of kitchen confidential and a few other things that Bourdain had written about this time in his life, which he read.

53:43Matt Johnson:I introduced him to a lot of people that knew Anthony at this time, but he had it like he was ready. I met him in New York city and this is when I wasn't planning on making this movie. And within an hour I was like, okay, I am going to make this movie. I'm going to make it about Dominic Cessa and we're ready to go right now. Like, let's start shooting tomorrow because he just had it. Also great in this is Antonio Banderas as a chef. The first thing I got to ask you that is approximately how many times did Antonio drench Dominic in water? And how much did he enjoy that? You know what? Credit to Banderas.

54:21Matt Johnson:He didn't enjoy it at all. Oh. Credit to Banderas. like he was he was so um worried about how uncomfortable and terrible it was going to be to splash dom over and over and over again and sure he makes it look like he's having a good time but no yeah i mean that was a partnership that was a partnership that was one of the harder things to film because we had to do it like 25 30 times geez yeah well that's amazing i i just his character and the way that he relates to Tony, I think is just great. He is the guy who helps Tony find his purpose and hone his skills. Who helped you hone your passion as you were first starting out?

55:03Matt Johnson:It's such a great question. In some ways I made this movie to honor those people because I myself get so much credit for oddly being myself, right? as any filmmaker does it's like oh wow look at you and uh and i'm so in debt to the people who made me that i wanted to make a film to recognize that so look i i didn't have a a mentor in the sense that Tony does with Antonio Banderas being both a kind of an almost religious figure in his life, but also extremely stern. But he is an extension of Bourdain's own mother who has standards for him and played by Dagmara and wants something better for him.

56:02Matt Johnson:And that is taken right from my own life. My mom was a major role model for me and in a way that I found very intimidating and tried to get out from under, right? I think my whole history of being such a, uh, liar comes from me trying to elude the standards that, uh, that my mom set for me. And, and so a lot of that is both in Anthony Bourdain and, uh, and Dagmara. Um, but then I also had incredible role models in, at summer camp with camp counselors who were older men that I looked up to as though they were superheroes. I was like, how can anyone be this funny? How can they be so confident? Like this, it was blowing my mind when I was young that, that, that, that this was, this behavior was even available to me.

56:52Matt Johnson:Um, and then even in film school, just the other night, I was having dinner with a friend who in many ways created me. I'm doing, I'm, I'm still doing an impression of him. If you can believe it. Uh, and no one will ever know. No one will ever know. People are going to think, wow, that Matt Johnson is really one of a kind. It couldn't be further from the truth. And although I am extrapolating, I like to think that Anthony Bourdain is not immune to that and that we all owe the people who helped to create us. And that's beautiful. And I think that that's a healthy message for young people to take, which is that look for role models.

57:35Matt Johnson:Look to where your interests go. Why are you interested in this person? Right? Like, pursue that. Like, that's something in you that there's a small voice in your head that's saying, this person interests you. Follow that. What is it about them that you like? Because they are going to wind up making you. And so don't take it lightly. One thing I just, I'm a big nerd for film scores and soundtracks. And the soundtrack to this one is just great. I'm excited to listen to it properly on its own. So many great tracks. But for you, what is the secret to a good needle drop? And was there anything that you had trouble securing the rights to?

58:13Well, these songs were extremely expensive, but thank God I'm making this movie for A24.

58:17Matt Johnson:It was the first time where I was making a film for a studio that was paying for it. That has never happened to me before in my life. Um, a needle drop to me needs to, um, it needs to match the behavior and the feeling of a scene so perfectly that everybody in the audience goes like almost takes a breath. Like there's, and when you get it right, there there's, in my opinion, there's really nothing like it. I think that film is the one medium i suppose dance is actually similar but but for me film is the place where where music can highlight images like nothing else and so every chance i can i take it to do so yeah yeah i don't think there's ever a bad time for a fifth of beethoven and you best believe i was bopping my head to that one that's i'm so happy you like that that's my that's uh my editor Kurt Lobb is wholly responsible for that.

59:17Matt Johnson:Oh, exactly. And he won me over with that song. Yeah, it's amazing. It puts that montage so perfectly as well. One of my favorite sequences in the film. You had a great quote on the feature for this film where you said, Bourdain's life shows you that you can learn so much from your failures that it helps create you. Yes. And you've been a filmmaker since 2013. You made many great films. What's the most valuable lesson failure has taught you? Oh, I fail. Every one of my films, I fail. Do I learn from them? I don't know. But I would say the Mac, the meta lesson is you just never give up on the project.

59:55Matt Johnson:Like, like I've had movies that have been complete and total disasters that I just refuse to close the casket on because like movies are funny because it's a temporal medium. And so like, you don't know, I mean, look at the Nirvana, the band movie, as an example, we shot that web series and it was kind of an abysmal failure. And lo and behold, 20 years later, I'm using the footage from that web series to create a movie where we travel in time between the present and the past solely because of that failed web series. And yet at the same time, I learned so much making that web series that allowed me to then create the movie.

1:00:32Matt Johnson:Like, like it's such a crazy back and forth, um, uh, relationship. relationship so so look i would say that's the meta lesson something more specific uh have the actors say less like what i'm doing in my edit is almost always cutting out my stupid dialogue and just playing on the faces of the actors which are so much more interesting i try to do that more and more uh as i get older oh god yeah i mean i failed so badly and and to remember that tomorrow is another day that, that just going to sleep and not thinking that's it, it's over for me. And my life is done and I suck like going to bed and, and, and realizing that tomorrow you get to go again.

1:01:14Matt Johnson:But I also don't want to give the advice not to get wrapped up emotionally in your work, because I think that's what gives it its power. And I wouldn't get so despondent around my failures if I didn't believe that what I was doing mattered. So, so yeah, look, advice is a complicated game and I try not to get into it because what worked for me will likely not work for everybody. And I'm also a fool. One thing I did enjoy with this film, the drive-in theater sequence. Oh yeah, I love it. You had Jaws playing. Did you and the cast get to watch the full thing? Did you have a chance? I got good news and bad news.

1:01:50Matt Johnson:Good news and bad news there. And that is that because when you're shooting a movie, there was a very specific scene I wanted to play on the screen. And so I needed to have, um, uh, my designer loop that sequence over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. And so we did get to watch a section of jaws, but we had to watch it again and again and again and again and again and again and again. And it was only one 10 minute section. So, so we didn't get to spring it up and play the whole thing from the beginning, but that's a, that's a very famous drive-in theater. It's called the well fleet drive-in and, um, it's where jaws famously played an entire summer in 1975.

1:02:26Matt Johnson:because that was the spot. Amazing. Amazing. I've never had the pleasure of a drive-in. I want to experience it at least once in my lifetime. Awesome. I'm good, sure. And I believe that is our time. Matt Johnson, thank you so much for your time. It's been a pleasure. I love to see you on the film. You have a great day.

1:02:48Chris Hewitt:Okay, that was Matt Johnson talking to Amon Warman about Tony. And Tony is out in cinemas right now, folks. and we're going to talk about it right now because it is time for the reviews section of the show. Before we get into Tony, though, I will say, don't forget Nimrods, a Green Day comedy, opened on Tuesday of this week. We gave it three stars, but I think it's a really, really sweet, quite funny coming-of-age comedy with some great music, especially, of course, if you are into Green Day. So do check that out. And an interview with Mason Temez and the director Lee Kirk is available on this week's episode of The Interviews, which is going to be up very, very soon.

1:03:23Chris Hewitt:Also featuring Adam Shankman, who's the director of next week's comedy Stop That Train. So that is very, very exciting. And on next week's interviews, we have the two drag queen stars of that movie. Jujubee and Ginger Minj. That was a joyous interview to do, by the way. So yes, looking forward to that. But if you are sick and tired of seeing The Odyssey and Spider-Man Brand New Day and Nimrod's Green Day comedy and you're looking for something else to see, well, this week we've got you covered, haven't we? Who wants to take Tony? This is, as we said, Matt Johnson on the story of Anthony Burden's early years as Tony.

1:04:06He is a student of Vassar who, when we meet him, is essentially pitching his wildly pretentious novel idea to a literary fellowship board, trying to get money to basically sit and write the great American novel that summer. they see right through him and turn him down and he ends up basically going to Cape Cod in pursuit of a woman Nancy played by Amelia Jones and ends up kind of to keep himself afloat taking a job in a kitchen and it's Antonio Banderas' kitchen he's just known as Chef basically in this movie and he's kind of horrified by what he sees but also kind of intrigued he kind of finds a little bit of an almost mentor relationship eventually with Chef has a bit more it's kind of a good angel on one shoulder bad angel on the other shoulder Leah Woodall being the bad angel who's basically taking him out to get fucked up every night and shag ladies and generally

1:05:02Chris Hewitt:oh no this sounds terrible I know you must be you must be shocked please avert your ears this is outrageous where do I sign I tell you what's great about this like Dominic Sessa first of all belongs in 70s set movies like he's so good in the holdovers he's so incredible here It's the sideburns. It's the sideburns. But he's also just incredibly good at playing these characters who are objectively privileged, objectively lucky. I mean, this guy, unlike the kid in The Holdovers who was abandoned by his family, this kid has a loving family. This kid has every advantage going for him, and he's still a dickhead.

1:05:37He's a total shitbag, and he makes every possible mistake throughout this movie. He lies, he cheats, he steals. He is spectacularly unreliable. He is a complete idiot. And I think that is genuinely the strength of this movie because, first of all, it's very Anthony Bourdain. Like, he had a very incisive eye in his writing and he turned it on himself as well as everyone else, right? So it feels like him. It feels like what he would say. Because it begins with that quote, doesn't it, when he describes himself as a narcissist. In desperate need of an ass-kicking. Right. Yeah, and that is 100 % the kid that we see.

1:06:15And I think that, if anything, makes you feel more affectionate towards him because he is such a dick. Such a dick. Such a dick. But it kind of reminds you of genuinely being that young and that much of an idiot and having that little understanding of the world that you think this is a valid way to live. Do you know what I mean? And there's almost a beauty to that very shitheadedness. I genuinely, I can't quite explain it, but it is, there is really something quite touching and innocent about his absolute faith in his own greatness without any sign of any greatness at any point. And I find that quite endearing.

1:06:56And as the film goes on, you do see him get knocked on his ass repeatedly, deservedly.

1:07:01Chris Hewitt:Literally and figuratively. Literally and figuratively. And it sort of feels like this might be the thing that makes him and this might help. So this is not one of those films, those sort of biopics where somebody's going, we've got to keep this kitchen confidential, kids, and sort of like signaling what's coming in the future. There's none of that. There's very, very little. He's only referred to really as Tony. He corrects anybody who calls him Anthony. you know he he is not that guy yet and the film is not sort of tipping its hats over and over again to that guy but it is showing you how this dickhead might one day become that guy and i thought that was a really really clever way of approaching it and it's bigger wolverine it's you know what he might not be a bad wolverine he definitely has the sideburns for it uh it's also not like a complete bourdain origin story it's basically one summer in his life when he went to Providence Town and worked in a restaurant.

1:07:56And yes, a pivotal moment in his life, but it is just one small chapter long before he kind of made a name for himself. I'm not a huge, I didn't have a huge amount of Bourdain knowledge going into this. Did you go to Bourdain school? Very good. I did not go to Bourdain school. I really liked the trailer for this. It had that kind of hazy 70s, almost A24-y vibe to it. There's something about it just appealed to me. this in spite of the fact that it is directed by Matt Johnson now Matt Johnson did Blackberry which I quite enjoyed but he also of course made Nirvana the show the series the lobotomy whatever it was which I think we can all agree is one of the most aggressively unfunny films ever made and what's interesting about this is when I came out of this and really liked it all of the people in the office who are massive Matt Johnson fans were disappointed that it didn't feel like a Matt Johnson film it didn't feel like his stamp was on this film.

1:08:53Chris Hewitt:What does that mean? Well, quite. Because he does have a kind of slightly wacky, zany off-kilter sensibility. I don't think Blackberry has that. It has a bit of that in there. It does have a bit of that in there. Not to the way that Nirvana has in that, you know, it's good. But this doesn't have any of that in it. But actually, it really works because this has a woozy, 70s-y feeling. It's almost got this very dreamlike quality. And I really, really enjoyed that. It's not a narratively driven story. It's a hangout thing. He's in this kitchen. He's miserable. You know, he's shucking oysters. He's washing dishes.

1:09:25But something about it is weirdly hypnotically compelling. And he, as a character, as Helen said, he is a grade A bellend. He is utterly unlikable. And again, a great bit of casting. What Cesar does is he gives him, first of all, he has a hangdog energy, kind of bathed in pathos. And you can't help but root for him even as you want everyone to punch him. and I think that's a really hard thing to pull off and so actually I thought this was great and we, like I say, people were maybe disappointed with the lack of Matt Johnson-ness to it we gave this three stars I think that's a bit harsh I think it's harsh to be honest with you

1:10:01Chris Hewitt:I'd give this four So you would take the star of Nirvana the Bandit Show the Movie I would take all of the stars Oh good lord of that and give them all to this one Good movie Really good movie Nirvana the Bandit Show the Movie This is also a really good movie Yay Matt Johnson Yay Matt Johnson Three stars then. Three stars then for Tony. Hell's Bells, tell us about, there are two more movies to talk about. One is called Lady. She's a lady. And the other one is Sunny Dancer. Yeah. Tell us about those, but don't get them mixed up. I will try not to. Lady is a mockumentary. It's directed by Samuel Abrams, who also lends his name to one of the characters in the film.

1:10:42The director of the film within the film, played by Laurie Kiniston, is also called Sam Abrams. And he turns up with a crew to this stately pile to film Lady Isabella, played by Sean Clifford from Fleabag, etc. And she is this wildly eccentric, weird, slightly sad lady who is convinced she's worth talking about and convinced she's worth people seeing. And she hosts a talent show every year for kids called Stately Stars, as in a sort of strictly stately kind of a thing. Okay. And has decided to enter it herself. So as well as judging the talent show, she will also be entering it. And they're following her as she's trying to find a talent for herself.

1:11:33And it's kind of a ridiculous character study to begin with. And then some weird stuff happens on top of that that I won't spoil. So this, I thought, was already kind of a weird little dude of a film. and then it became an even weirder little dude.

1:11:50Chris Hewitt:This is Dan Stevens in movie form. Yeah, this is it though. It starts as like a Dan Stevens and then it ends up more of a Clint Howard. I think that's a good way of putting it. But it's very strange, but it's quite likable and there is emotion in there as well. And the documentary maker is wildly conflicted about his own role in proceedings and unethical at times. as well, which kind of makes it more interesting. But yeah, I just enjoyed this. I wasn't sure what to expect, but it definitely wasn't what happened. So if you want to be surprised, this is the one to see this week. What did we give it?

1:12:27We gave it four stars.

1:12:29Chris Hewitt:Four stars? I'll be honest, I might have given that three and Tony four. And Tony four. But it's on the borderline, so I'm not going to argue too hard with that. Okay, four stars and for Lady. Really interesting that that's what it's about. I once tried to enter myself in a talent competition and as a result, I was disqualified. probably for the best, really. Yeah. Shouldn't be doing that in public. They frown upon this, everything. They do. The other film out this week, this other small film, is Sunny Dancer, which is written and directed by Georges Jacques, who is apparently 26 years old. He's another disgustingly young...

1:13:02Chris Hewitt:This cannot be allowed to continue. This is appalling. I'm appalled. Young people should be in front of the camera, like Dominic Cessa. Indeed. Not behind the camera. Well, one such person, in fact, several such people are in front of the camera here. Few. This is led by Bella Ramsey, who plays a teenage cancer survivor. And her parents, who are played by James Norton and Jessica Gunning, are worried that she's not making friends. You know, people her own age can't really relate to what she's been through. She can't really relate to what they haven't been through. It's a whole kind of gulf. So they send her away to a camp for teenage cancer survivors up in Scotland, run by Neil Patrick Harris.

1:13:40and there she falls in with a group of other kids played by the likes of Daniel Quintoy, Ruby Stokes, Earl Cave. Wow, that's a good cast. Yeah, it's a good cast. And she basically begins to slightly come out of her rather angry shell and tentatively begin to make friends. I will be honest, I could see at least one of the major plot points of this film coming from the summary, and you maybe can too if you're watching this, if you're listening to this. but I still thought it was pretty effective because I think Bella Ramsey gives a great, great performance here. I think there's a real sense of community and bonding between the kids.

1:14:21They're all just so wonderful and the thought of any kid going through what they've been through is naturally upsetting. So it gets you right in the feels, as they say. It is also very funny. It's just a charming little British comedy, you know, and we don't get too many of those to the pound these days. so I just thought it was well done it's not like I say it's not going to reinvent the wheel it's not you know going to stun and surprise you with its narrative twists and turns but it has its own point of view and I think it does it pretty well

1:14:51Chris Hewitt:amazing what would you give it or what have we given it we have not yet got the Empire review up it should be up I imagine by the time you listen to this I think it's another sort of high three low four for me somewhere in there somewhere in that region we'll find out by going to the Empire website at EmpireOnline.com to find out exactly what we gave it but Helen would be high three, low four for Sunny Dancer. Alright, one more film to talk about this week. It is David Robert Mitchell's The End of Oak Street. Jimbo. Hello. Tell us about this movie. I thought that was implied. Let me send your name in that way.

1:15:28Sorry, you were not specific. Yes, he has got what, roughly a hundred thousand times the budget he had on It Follows but he has made a film about dinosaurs. And the thing that strikes me about this film, before we even get into the story of it, is remember the end of Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom, where it sets up a world where dinosaurs are roaming suburbia. And we were really excited to see where it went, and instead we got Jurassic World Dominion. I feel that this film finally fulfills the promise of that promise and shows us what would happen if dinosaurs ran amok in suburbia. So this sees the Platt family.

1:16:02You've got Mother Denise, played by Anne Hathaway. You've got Father Greg, played by Ewan McGregor, and it's 1982. They're having cookouts. Their kids are riding around on BMXs. Their kids are specifically Brian and Jeanette. And they're having some marital difficulties. He's off delivering pizzas. He's lost his job. They're having some sort of frictions at the home. But all of that pales into insignificance when their entire neighborhood is transported back to kind of the Jurassic era where dinosaurs roamed the earth. and I kind of what's the best part of this is is that while they are obviously transported back in time it's kind of like we are too because it's set in 1982 but it is also a film from 1982 everything about this is like a Spielbergian Amblin homage like everything from the pacing to the plotting to the Michael Chichino score which is very plinky plonky and incredibly Amblin and 80s as they wake up one morning and find there are dinosaurs in their front garden and what I quite like about this from a dinosaur point of view is you see that David Robert Mishore he's not completely shared his gory attendances like there's some gnarly kills in this but all in all he's done different things with dinosaurs because I think what Spielberg did with Jurassic Park unfortunately for everyone else is ruined dinosaurs for every other filmmaker because his T-Rex has a specific look and a specific sound and an identity his raptors even if they're not scientifically accurate they are dinosaurs for us now.

1:17:32And any time you use those dinosaurs, and let's be honest, there's only a certain amount of great dinosaurs to choose from, you feel like you're in Jurassic Park. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm sorry, Helen's going to put one in for the Allosaurus. I mean, come on. But, but, but, what I really like that's done here is the dinosaurs here have a different aesthetic to them. They feel more rugged, they feel more feral, they feel more savage, they feel more horror. And I think that was a really smart move. Like, you've got the much more sort of feathered-looking raptor beast. The T-Rex looks like some mutant monster.

1:18:00Chris Hewitt:But I think they're recognised dinosaurs. I think they're recognized to be the species that they're meant to be. Whereas something like the Adam Driver movie,

1:18:09Chris Hewitt:65, reinvented the dinosaurs and so you couldn't really tell what species they were because they deliberately futzed with them, they deliberately played with them. But here, apart from the fact that they have feathers, it's like, oh, that's a Spinosaurus, that's an Ankylosaur. Yeah, I can tell what they are. You can recognize what they are from a paleontological point of view, but what I'm saying is they're not the Spielbergian archetypal dinosaurs that I think we're used to seeing. Yeah. And I think that benefits this film enormously. And it's fun. It's part horror movie, part adventure. It's, honestly, it's one of the most fun I've had in the cinema this year, actually.

1:18:42Like, it's a really good laugh. And also, they use some, shall we say, dinosaur archetypes that we're not used to seeing. Yeah. One in particular that I will not spoil, which was a lot of fun and also incredibly upsetting. But yeah, really, really fun film. Great dinosaurs. It feels like the Jurassic franchise has, I mean, look, I like Rebirth, but I feel like it has been done to death a little bit. And this made me think, oh, actually, there is life in the dinosaur movie yet. And you can do this without feeling like you're retreading Jurassic ground. And that's something to celebrate. Yeah, absolutely.

1:19:16I think it's really fun. I think there are some very funny moments in this movie, but without losing the tension of, you know, people are trapped here and have no idea if they will ever be able to get home. and they don't know how they got here in the first place. There's no real explanation. There's a bit of chat about wormholes and Carl's again, but that's like, that's it. And then they're kind of just trying to survive. And I think it does a really interesting thing because it kind of does, you know, I thought it would be more like the last house that we saw last week, which was with the family stuck in their house, you know, and that was all about how do you survive with just what you have?

1:19:52There's an element of that here as well. They immediately lose power and water and they're just, okay, so what food do we have? But it's less about that and it's more about fuck there are dinosaurs and they're really scary. I have questions about the number of carnivores in a very small area if I'm honest. But we're going to let that aside because it just makes for a movie. It doesn't seem like a sustainable ecosystem really does it? It doesn't seem like a sustainable ecosystem. How are they all finding meat? Do you know what I mean? It doesn't seem right.

1:20:22Chris Hewitt:Well this is why Bodine's closed. They're coming from a much bigger area outside. Well, but there's like a bit of a cliff. There's a bit of a escarpment on at least two sides. I think there's, well, you know. Maybe all the carnivores smelled them from miles away. Yeah, and maybe we smell like delicious, delicious Soho special to them, I guess. They were like, five guys. The other one was like, no, there's at least 30 or 40 of them. We can eat them all. Well, it's too mild. Anyway, but. Yeah, but I just really enjoyed it. I thought it was very, very Amblin-y. It has elements of obviously like Back to the Future with the time travel, Jurassic Park, obviously with just the fact that there are dinosaurs.

1:21:00Gremlins, Goonies. Gremlins, Goonies. Like it just feels like very rooted in that time zone, that aesthetic. I think it, but it doesn't feel as slavish and pastiche as some of the Stranger Things and other ripoffs that we've had in recent years have done. This has its own point of view and it feels like it's doing its own thing on top of that. And I really appreciated that. It has that 80s thing of like, how did all this happen? and they're like, it's the 80s, who gives a fuck? And I quite enjoy, there's a layer of absurdity to this, which just feels so of its era. But yeah, it's a really, really fun time at the cinema.

1:21:34And it's a shame that I would say most people probably don't know what this is. Like it's not, it doesn't feel like this is, because this could have been a tentpole summer movie, right? This could have been one of the big movies you're looking forward to. And it feels like it's snuck up on people with a fairly generic title.

1:21:47Chris Hewitt:Yeah, I was surprised by the scale of the movie. I've seen this movie. I've seen a movie, everybody. I've been on for a little while. I haven't seen everything, but I've seen this movie. Went along and saw it last night. And I was surprised by the scale of it sometimes. This clearly cost quite a bit of money. And it feels like it's been hung out to dry a little bit in the summer season. I might be wrong about that. It might do really, really well this weekend. Although it's up against a behemoth that is Spider-Man brand new day, which I guess nobody saw coming. People knew it was going to be a big deal by its third of the game, but I don't think they knew quite how big a deal it was going to be.

1:22:23Chris Hewitt:and the trailers were a bit generic and a bit like, what is this movie and have we seen this thing before and there hasn't been a lot of promo for it. So I think it's important that people like us exist and platforms like this podcast exist for us to tell you that you should stop doing whatever it is you're doing right now and rush to your nearest multiplex and plonk down your hard-earned cash to see the end of Oak Street because this movie is fan-fucking-tastic. It is my favorite film of the year so far. I adored it. I cannot wait to see it again. I found it funny. I found it scary, which is really interesting because I think that one of the things the Jurassic franchise has done over the years is de-scare dinosaurs.

1:23:16Chris Hewitt:First Jurassic Park, they're terrifying. And then it's like, oh, it's a raptor's doing their thing again. and now we can control the raptors and they're our friend. So they're less scary and they have to make up these mutant monstrosities in order to, you know, to frighten audiences and indeed the characters. And this actually makes, put a baseball cap going, M-D-S-A, make dinosaurs scary again. That's what the end of Oak Street does. David Robert Mitchell hasn't been, hasn't directed for a while. He's about to direct Lay Follow, which is a sequel to It Follows. and the fact that he has had this in his back pocket.

1:23:53Chris Hewitt:Maybe, James, he saw Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom and had exactly the same thought you saw. And then when he saw Dominion, he was like, that's not what this movie should have been. And then he went home and he wrote the movie that it should have been. Good for him. And good for him indeed because I think this is beautifully directed as well. I think there are very, very few dud choices that he makes in the movie. He deploys split diopters in a very interesting fashion, but I love it. I'm a big split-by-diopter freak, so I was very, very happy with that. Isn't that one of the dinosaurs? I think it is.

1:24:27Chris Hewitt:Split dioptosaurus. And he makes great choices with suspense sequences. There are some genuine surprises in this film. He does have to tiptoe around the PG-13 restraints quite a bit, but he does it very, very nicely indeed. He sets up the first 20 minutes. I was thinking, my God, the algorithm must be furious with this film because there's no action in the first 15, 20 minutes. It's all set up. It's all character-based. And the algorithm must be going, no, but something exciting has to happen in the first two minutes. Otherwise, people will switch off. But no, not the end of Oak Street. But believe me, all the exciting stuff happens in the last hour and 20 minutes of this movie.

1:25:07Chris Hewitt:It's a thrill ride. It's got great characters that you can root for as well. And it's just great. and it's got a lovely dog as well. A lovely dog called Starbuck. Such a good dog. And such good dinosaurs as well. 14 out of 10 for the dinosaurs. Only a facetious attention-seeking idiot would say things like, this is the best Jurassic Park movie since Jurassic Park. Right. And things like, this is the best Spielberg movie in decades. But I am a facetious attention-seeking idiot. So I'm going to say, this is the best Jurassic Park movie since Jurassic Park and the best Spielberg movie in decades, even though Spielberg is not involved in this film.

1:25:41Chris Hewitt:I loved it. we gave a four I say piffed and poo poo to that I'm going to give five five Hewitts five out of five Hewitts for this five guys five guys it all comes back to five guys it all comes back to food in the end we are not sponsored by five guys we should be though we should be they should sponsor our live show our next live show we have a live show coming up tell us more Chris we do have a live show Helen thank you for that very organic segue yes we are doing a live show Saturday September 5th King's Place London it is part of the London Podcast Festival it is going to be an absolutely belting evening there are still some tickets available for that so if you haven't seen an Empire Podcast live show before it is a ton of fun come along and see that and if you have been before then come along and have a ton of fun again it's going to be tons of fun tons of fun all round and we will be sponsored by Five Guys we won't be sponsored by Five Guys no but Helen will personally spring for a burger or a vegan option for everybody in the audience.

1:26:44Chris Hewitt:I will not. Helen will not. All right. We will invite you all down to Bodine's for a Sorrow special. We'll meet you in Bodine's. Which Helen will pay for. Oh, poor Bodine's. No, again, no. Just in case they're reopening, I need to make this clear. I mean, frankly, you wouldn't be able to afford them at this point. Oh, come on now. Anyway, so five stars for our live show on September 5th. Kingsplace.co.uk to get tickets for that. And four stars officially from Empire for the end of Oak Street. Ignore the generic title. Just put Jurassic World in front of it and you will be fine. Jurassic Street.

1:27:20Chris Hewitt:Jurassic Street. That's what it should have been called. Actually, is it Jurassic that they go back to? Is it Triassic? Triassic Street. Oh, they should have called it Cull-de-sac, but C-U-L-L. Oh. Cull-de-sac. That makes it sound like they're culling a bag. Yeah, I don't know. because cool is like in that color alright fine Jurassic Street four stars then for the end of Oak Street or Jurassic Street or cul-de-sac if you want to consider that and on that note I think that is it for this week's Emperor Podcast I'm not around next week oh okay off again is it I will be in Lyon but this is an actual holiday whereas previously I've been working I've been doing some work but I'll be in Lyon next week earning 20 % you will be the Lyon professional yes I will be luckily there are many films to talk about while you're gone so many films on next week so many many films you'll be in safe hands with Helen and James next week and we will be joined by

1:28:25wow

1:28:27Chris Hewitt:we've killed Chris I might not be around ever again by

1:28:34Chris Hewitt:Jane Shunbrun ooh director of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma. That's exciting. But there's also about 847 other movies out next week. I have picked the perfect time to take a week off. And we'll be joined by some people from those movies, including Jujubee and Ginger Minj from Stop That Train! And they'll be on the interviews. Hurrah! Until we meet again, until then, until that auspicious occasion, it is goodbye from my two colleagues of such lethal cunning. Goodbye, Helen O 'Hara. Toodaloo. Goodbye, James Dyer. Goodbye, Chris. Listen to the Pilot TV podcast. Why, though? Not for any particular reason.

1:29:15Just because it's great.

1:29:17Chris Hewitt:Yeah. Maybe listen to it while you're queuing up to get tickets. Don't listen to it for the past two weeks because I wasn't on it so it was rubbish. Oh, it improved measurably. A real uptick, a real surge in listeners, I hear. You listen to it. I guess there was one extra listener and it was me. That's exciting. Well done, James. Well done. Yeah. And it's goodbye from me as well, I am off to go down to Poland Street and just stand outside Bodine's and stare at it, wistfully, forlornly, a single tear running down my cheek. Oh, Soho Special, you were special. Thanks for listening. See you next time.

1:29:52Chris Hewitt:Bye-bye.