No Sex Scenes! (ft. guest, Destin Daniel Cretton)

23:22Chris Hewitt:It basically featured Vanessa Kirby as Sue Storm going, oh, oh, the Victor Von Doom, I knew. Oh, you'd have loved him. But then he lost everything he loved and there was a picture of his wife and child getting into a giant fridge and then he's like, oh, no. Was there like iPhone footage of him laughing and smiling on a bridge on a lovely crisp autumn day with a big scarf in Latveria with the Latverian flag fluttering behind them and then she goes I knew he was lost but I didn't know he was broken and meanwhile there's like lots of shots of like the various characters in the movie all looking very worried about stuff and then there's like shots of some sorry folks you can read about this online as well but you know there's like a shot of some like a scene of utter devastation that clearly Doom is responsible for.

24:13Chris Hewitt:And then you have Pedro Pascal as Reed Richards confronting him and going, Victor, did you do this? So this movie confirms what we'd already knew because Matt Shackman had said the same in our spoiler special, that Doom, this Doom, the Robert Downey Jr. Doom is from the Fantastic Four's world and is pals with the Fantastic Four or was pals with Reed and Sue, certainly. And so that history will A, be established here, but also will play into what happens in Doomsday. So the fact that Pedro can go right up to him and confront him and yell in his face, even when he's pretty powerful, I think it could be quite emotionally affecting.

24:53Chris Hewitt:But we shall see what happens with that. And then we get to hear more of the Downey Doom voice, which we heard in the Doomsday trailer. He basically goes, you are all living stolen lives. And then we see shots of various people. The only one I really remember is Loki, who is living a stolen life and now you must give them back and I'm wondering is that what he's doing? Is he doing his own version of pruning the multiverse in an attempt to stave off incursions? What's going on? And then we see some other things and we see an extended version of the Thor versus Doom confrontation from the trailer and this time I wrote this down Thor says to Doom I swear you will beg for hell before I grant you it and then he tries to smite Doom and then Doom smites him and he's recovering from this and then Doom goes hell answers to me and then he does his magical wavy hands thing like Paul Daniels you'll like it, not a lot and then he conjures up from behind him an army of sentinels and at that point it seemed like Hall H just lost consciousness like just en masse Everybody blacked out.

26:10Chris Hewitt:Everyone just passed out for a second. And you could argue, of course, yes, that this is a very cynical thing, like dropping Toby McGuire and Andrew Garfield at the Spider-Man No Way Home, and they know that people of a certain age and disposition will lap this shit up. But by fucking God, it worked. The first thing I said after coming around from my days was two tickets for Avengers Tuesday, please. So evidently it worked. and then I went to the press line afterwards and spoke to the Russos and Feige and Simi Liu and other people, Hayley Atwell and other folks. And it was a fun, fun time. So that footage, primo.

26:51Chris Hewitt:And my understanding is that there's more in the movie. Interesting. Yeah, that it's not just that. Yeah. Wow. That it's not just that. Okay. I don't know. Nothing gets past you, Chris. Honestly. I'm like a one-man wooden burn stick. Christian two minutes with Kevin Feige question one will the movie be longer than that I actually did ask the Russos a version of that question wait what did they say they confirmed it's going to be at least 30 seconds longer okay because the names of the people who worked in those two minutes have got to go up on screen the names at the end were the people who worked on the movie the twist of Avengers Doomsday so that's exciting any more things you want to ask me about that or are we good I have other Marvel things to ask you about.

27:37I feel like I'm tapped out on Doomsday a bit, but footage was the biggest thing in the world. It was the meat in the big announcement sandwich. Externally, that was like one side of the bread, and the meat was Black Panther 3.

27:52Chris Hewitt:No, the meat was Avengers. Okay, so just structurally, the panel was a bit of bread, which was Ryan Gosling being announced as Ghost Rider in a 2028 film to be directed by Sean Levy. Luxurious bread, we should say. Yes. Not like bog standard. Oh, no, this is like rye. Is rye good bread? I don't know. I like white bread. Rye and guzzling? I'm getting the sense of your subway order here.

28:21Chris Hewitt:Six-inch meatball marinara, please. No sex-inch. What bread? Italian. That's very plain. Fuck you. Oh, wow. I like it for the hearty Italian. Me too. There you go. What's the difference between the Italian and the hearty Italian? Helen, tell us.

28:42Chris Hewitt:No, Jenny, what is the difference between a hearty and Italian? I think this has got like crunchier. Crunchier. I don't want crunch. A bit of herb. I like my bread to be like, not gooey, but soft. It's off liquid, Chris. Oh boy. Don't you like liquid bread? Anyway. Chris, that's Huel. I said, you don't like liquid bread. That's beer. This has gone badly. That's this episode title. this has gone badly. Anyway, so Rai in Gosling was the first layer of bread, right? And then that was followed by the Doomsday unveiling which took ages and had all the Avengers and the X-Men and then Downey on stage as Doom and then they showed the footage and the Russas as well.

29:25Chris Hewitt:So that was the meatballs. And then that was the meatballs. And then they brought out the hearty Italian which was Ryan Coogler coming on stage not like that to announce Black Panther 3 and I heard that all the way from San Diego because Amon you were live texting me I was which was lovely but also very much unappreciated because I was trying I was trying to work and you were like texting me shit I was like what were you doing up man it was 1.30 in the morning listen when it comes to Comic Con And that's the way that I experience it. Unfortunately for now, like I want to, at some point, actually go because it is the Mecca of all geekdom.

30:12It is literally nerd Nirvana. I need to go at least once to experience it. But yeah, for now, like I just, I had like five feeds open. I was just refreshing and seeing the Empire feed, seeing the other feeds, like, what's going on? What's going on? And reacting to whatever the... Oh, you're seeing other feeds. Okay.

30:32Chris Hewitt:And were those other feeds giving you what you wanted? Sometimes. Didn't know we were open about the feeds. Yeah. And why was Empire not giving you what you wanted? What can we do better? If Empire wasn't tweeting fast enough, maybe there was somebody on my right to blame for that with all the texts. Kind of saying, my fingers were fucking flame that day. Flame on. Yeah. But I was mainly doing very, very stupid jokes. But neither here nor there. And then the panel started and the live tweeting just stopped because it was so interesting because everything was happening. Because I was a one-man band this year, so I was trying to film some stuff so we could put video content up later on because a lot of sites and whatnot seem to be doing that this year.

31:13Chris Hewitt:So I thought, okay, if you can't beat them, join them. So I tried to do some video stuff. And then because you were standing up, I wasn't able to get to my laptop to live tweet. And so the live tweeting kind of just... I haven't gone back to the feed, but it's pretty much like, now the Russos are here to bring some Avengers Doomsday footage. And then the next tweet is, David Johnson is the new Black Panther and then it just stops because I had to run to the press line and I wasn't able to do anything else after that and then I went home and slept after that but anyway not home, the hotel which felt like a home, it was a lovely hotel anyway, so they brought out Ryan Coogler to announce Black Panther 3 which has a release date of December 15th 2028 and they brought out Letitia Wright and Winston Duke who had been on stage previously as part of the Doomsday Cavalcade.

32:03Chris Hewitt:And then they announced a big bombshell, which was that Black Panther 3 will feature the new T 'Challa, who of course is the son of T 'Challa and Nakia from the Black Panther movies. And it's David Johnson. It's only bloody David Johnson. Love it. Love it, love it, love it. Great casting. He's great. He's so good. this perfect perfect casting he has a kindness and a decency that I think is going to be absolutely crucial for the role there had been speculation that something like this would happen but the speculation had been Damson Idris and then I guess they saw Ryle Lane and they were like yeah he's done I feel like we'd talked about this hadn't we in the podcast I know you tweeted about it Iman but I feel like we talked about this at one point in the podcast and his name was mentioned because he is a fantastic actor he's so likeable as you say he has that decency to him I'm not 100 % sure how they work this out on a timeline level but I guess that will all become clear yeah for me in my mind it's not even about a time jump so much as it is about what the MCU will look like post Secret Wars because they're going to keep some things the same and they're going to change whatever they want to and I think this is going to be one of the changes having this grown up to China now but yeah I love it and I just think there's just so much trust I have with Ryan Kruger especially like all the things we're saying about why David Johnson is perfect for the role the criteria for Ryan to say what he's saying about David Johnson knowing the chadwick of it all knowing the franchise as intimately as he does you know that his standards for this role were ginormously high and David Johnson has clearly passed that test so very very happy for him as someone who has gotten to speak to him a number of times I feel like a little bit proud of him as well that he's come so far.

34:00He's been on just the last couple of years, especially the long walk. He's fantastic. And Rylan, you mentioned, he's the best thing about Alien Romulus. So yeah, very, very happy with this and very excited for him. I feel like the long walk is a really good way. If people aren't familiar with his game and you really should be, we've been recommending Rylan now for I don't know how many years, but definitely watch that. But also do watch the long walk because I feel like that has that mix of, implacable sort of integrity and cool and just a sense of himself as a person, just that centeredness that he has in that role, I think is a really, really interesting kind of model of the kind of Black Panther that we could maybe see from him.

34:40I think that really stood out as well, because Chris, you got the story from Feige on the casting of David Johnson, and that casting has been, it happened like five or six months ago. This has been in the works for a little while, but Feige told you the story of Ryan Coogler meeting with David Johnson and coming out of that meeting, and there's a really significant part of the quote that he gave you, which is, he's a good man and he's the next Black Panther. And as you say, that sense of decency is so core to Black Panther, the assuredness that we absolutely got in Chadwick Boseman's T 'Challa, the quiet confidence is so key to that character.

35:25And I think we see that in David Johnson and his other performances, but I thought it was so significant in the, you can read the full story on Empire Online, Chris's quotes from Kevin Feige, of him being on the receiving end of that messaging from Coogler of, I just met with him and he's the new Black Panther. He's a good man. He thought it was a lovely story. Yeah. I just also think that this further validates Ryan Coogler's decision to not recast the Chadwick Boseman T 'Challa, which he was under a lot of pressure for in certain quarters to do. Not only did it give us, as a film-watching culture, a chance to collectively mourn Chadwick Boseman, which is a very unique thing to happen, but I think deserved for an actor who was very beloved to a lot of people.

36:13But now you can have a T 'Challa and start fresh in a way to give him his own set of problems and challenges to overcome and also not have that be weathered to certain other things. This means that Chadwick's T 'Challa can forever remain attached to Nakia while as this new T 'Challa, I mean, we're going to see what the MCU is going to look like post-Secret Wars, but I'm imagining that they're going to want to do something with Storm. There's actually a lot of rumors that Ryan Coogler is overseeing the casting of Storm to maybe be in Black Panther 3. and obviously we know in the comments that Storm and Black Panther are a thing.

36:51So yeah, I just think it validates that as well.

36:54Chris Hewitt:Other things happened. Do you want to talk about them? Yeah, there's been some trailers we should probably talk about. Just before we came into the booth, the new Jumanji open world trailer dropped. So the concept this time is essentially the first Jumanji has finally happened. The Jumanji has come into the real world and we're getting all the wild animals and crucially the characters in the real world. This looks really fun to me. I'm extremely amused, both by sort of demo mode versions of these characters. The running is fun. The running is really fun, but also they do eventually go into the game at one point and then new people are in the characters and it gives them some new colors to play.

37:35And I'm super hyped for that as well because it just looks like an interesting and a fun wrinkle for our sort of core game cast of The Rock and Kevin Hart and Jack Black and Karen Gillan all to play. So this is honestly super sold. Really into it. It does look fun. I think they've done a good job of, you know, in turning these films basically into body swap comedies of finding funny remixes of like, this person's in that body now. And we've got, even in the last one, it was Danny DeVito in The Body of The Rock is inherently funny. That's a great comedy concept. I did think it was a little bit interesting that the setup is Jumanji's in the real world now and then even halfway through the trailer it's like, ah, we're going back to the game.

38:21It's like, maybe that's something that can't really sustain a whole movie in this version of Jumanji. Obviously, as you say, that is also the concept of the original Jumanji is that the stuff comes out of the board game into the real world. I presume it cross cuts between... Yeah, I'm guessing. I don't know that everyone's in the game by the looks of this. It doesn't feel like they are and feels like quite a few of our heroes are still outside. So presumably there's a dual quest that needs to be done. It is something, though, where, like, how is this going to fare? Is it seven years since the last one, was it?

38:53Yeah. 2019? Because they went up against Rise of Skywalker and actually did pretty respectably, made a good, like, I think maybe$800 million. You could really draw some conclusions from that about Rise of Skywalker. made a hell of a lot more than many other movies recently um but you know those two jumanji films they're really fun they came hot off the heels of one another um both did very well financially as well it has been a big gap the the hierarchy of power in the dc universe and the rest of hollywood has significantly changed especially when you think of the one of the main stars of these jumanji movies.

39:31On the other hand, the Jack Black stock continues just to rocket upwards. There is a whole generation of kids now for whom Jack Black is Minecraft and the Mario movies, and so this is a little escalation from that. I'm sure this will be a 12 like the others. I think it looks fun. It's just seven years is a long time between

39:56Chris Hewitt:Jumanji. You forget though that in the interim, Dwayne johnson and jake castan the director made red one and that won the heart of millions and i think it's really continued to magic other jumanji movies and if they can recapture the red one magic here then boy boy oh boy are we in for two hours of of a movie well you mentioned the the seven year gap i was also intrigued by the release because it said ben mentioned the seven year gap um i was also intrigued by the release date because it says Christmas and June's day is December 18th. Yes. Combine that with the seven year gap and that's kind of a ballsy release date.

40:36Chris Hewitt:It's a ballsy move. And I don't know if it's going to pay off for them but we shall see. Fingers crossed. There were some more trailers to talk about. So the second trailer for Adam Wingard's Onslaught has been revealed. That was at Comic-Con. That was one of the best panels I was at actually hosted by Kevin Smith. It was great. had everyone there Audrey Arjona Drew Starkey Dan Stevens Rebecca Hall it was a really really fun panel what did you guys think of the trailer for this movie that isn't the guest 2 but kind of is the guest 2 and I wouldn't be surprised if ultimately when the dust settles it is actually the guest 2 but what did you make?

41:12I had a really good time with it the action looks incredible there's one shot I think it's actually the shot that we've used for the screenshot for the story on the site but it's Dan Stevens and he looks a little bit like Batman. Dan Stevens looks a little bit like Batman. Show it to me. See if I can find it. One second.

41:33Chris Hewitt:Is this something that you have, Amon, where you look at everybody and they look like Batman? I promise you it's not. Because Amon came out of Spider-Man Brand New Day and went, oh, that was an amazing Batman movie. I thought Tom Holland was great as Batman and Sandea was magnificent as his girlfriend. Batman. I can't find it. No, no, no, you take your time. Thank you. Helen, what have you been up to while I'm on? You know, just making a mess of... Keeping on, keeping on. Tell me this does not look like Batman. You know what I'm saying? Is that Dan Stevens? I don't think that's Dan Stevens, first of all.

42:17Chris Hewitt:But I think that's one of the three killing machines. The super soldiers who were unleashed upon... So he has the top half of his face painted black. Like his eyeliner has run catastrophically. Like we're talking sort of Charlize in Fury Road kind of eyeliner smudging. Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Thank you. Yeah. Yes. So I don't think that's Dan Stevens in that shot. Dan Stevens in this movie doesn't play David, who is the unkillable super soldier that he played in The Guest. Now, Adam Wingard has confirmed that this movie takes place in the same town as The Guest. And these super soldiers who are making Arjuna's day a bad one are from the same program that David was from.

43:05Chris Hewitt:But Dan Stevens in this plays, I believe, the inventor of that program, the founder of that program, who is a fucked up Weasley little Nazi dude in his 80s or 90s or 100s. It's undetermined who likes to lick Rebecca Hall's feet. Well, down with that sort of Nazism. I leave feet stuff to your own conscience. Surely down with all sorts of Nazism, right? I mean, yes, but I just wanted to make clear I wasn't, like, kink-shaming anybody for feet. Certainly wouldn't kink-shame anybody for fancying Rebecca Hall. That seems like a rational position for people to take. Totally, totally rational. But the rest, I'm down on Nazis.

43:45Chris Hewitt:Yeah. Am I on you into feet stuff? No. Okay, great. Yet another conversational cul-de-sac. Unbelievable. This looks great. I know the fact that Dan Stevens is playing a different character would seem to indicate that this isn't a guest, too. I would not be 100 % surprised. This is not an Amon guarantee. This is not a Hugh Bettebeliever buddy. This isn't even a Benny Guessesit or a Helen or Highwater. I don't think that's a thing. I have never endorsed this. and yet there are t-shirts made with it on there. What can you do? I'm not saying that this is any of those, but I'm saying that if Dan Stevens were to turn up in a dual role and David from The Guest were to show up in this movie, I would not be surprised, thus making it The Guest 2 after all.

44:37Chris Hewitt:It's a guest guess? It's a guest guess. This movie doesn't have a UK release date yet. Who do we lobby? The new PM? Who's it this week? it's very hard to keep track by the time this goes on it could have changed it could be Amon Amon are you the new PM trying to keep it a secret Chris but yes yes I am can I just say talking about Adria Arjuna in this film she did a couple of interviews for Comic Con yes she did and she said I'm Batman well there was one question she was asked about Man of Tomorrow she was incredibly effasive it's very obvious that she's playing Wonder Woman to me now It does feel that way.

45:16Did you see this? Not Maxima, that much anticipated DC character. It's very obvious. You're saying this woman who looks exactly like Wonder Woman might be playing Wonder Woman? I, for one, am shocked. Gee, I wonder who this woman is playing.

45:32Chris Hewitt:Yeah, I think that's pretty much nailed on, right? Would you take Dan Stevens as the bat? The DCU bat? Oh, this is a good question. See, here's the thing about Dan Stevens. Hashtag bat not blonde. he can dye his hair Kilmer was blonde he cannot dye his hair Kilmer was a blonde bat Kilmer yeah well that was a huge roaring success wasn't it hold on Batman Forever is a good Batman film I enjoyed Batman Forever but it wasn't a huge roaring success I'm on I cannot sanction your buffoonery I'm sorry but okay here's the thing about Dan Stevens here's the thing about Dan Stevens obviously Empire Spirit Animal sure love him good looking guy sure good actor yep absolutely weird little dude.

46:16Yes. And I think that's the thing, that it means he's not Batman. I think he's perfect for Batman. No, no, no, no. They already have a weird little dude playing Batman.

46:25Chris Hewitt:No, but not in the DCU they don't. I know. But if they go DCU, I bet you they go more, like, less weird. I bet they go more mainstream. Otherwise, if you just want a weird little dude, get Pattinson. Please. Neither of them are that little, by the way. No, true. No disrespect. but they're weird. How would you feel about Alan Richardson as Batman? Too big. Yeah. Can you imagine people, the secret identity thing just would not fly. It's like, who could possibly be Batman as Bruce Wayne walks in the door taking it off his hinges? I mean, Batman... Yeah, but he's used to the animated series where that is basically what Batman looks like.

47:06This is true.

47:07Chris Hewitt:But Batman should not be, Batman should not have more muscles than Superman. I think that's just... That's for that. That's generally where I am. And listen, I love Jack Reacher. I love that he plays himself in that show. It's terrific. And I like that Jack Reacher has turned this into a career of picking largely terrible movies. Although I hear that his new movie, Motor City, is actually quite good. It opened in the States and died on its hours at the weekend. But apparently it's quite good. Nice. So well done to Jack Reacher. But as Batman, no, I don't see it. I'm fully prepared to erase this tape when he's announced as Batman in six months' time.

47:43He's been giving into his way. He's been saying he's had a number of conversations with James Gunn about the role in the DCEU.

47:49Chris Hewitt:Here's how I think those conversations are going. Can I play Batman, please, James Gunn? No, Jack Reacher. You're the size of a fucking boat. You can play Boatman. How about that? No, thank you. There is one more trailer to talk about. So this is the trailer for The Thomas Crown Affair, which is the film, the remake, the second remake of the classic 1960s Norman Jewison, Steve McQueen, Faye Dunaway movie featuring the sexiest game of chess of all time. I think they were fucking, those two. There was something about the way they were... I don't know. Kasparov versus Deep Blue was pretty sexy. I think it was Kasparov versus Deep Throat, actually.

48:30Chris Hewitt:But come on now. Come on. Come on, guys. But this promises to be even sexier than that and even sexier than the 1999 remake. I want to say 1999. Directed by John McTiernan, starring Pierce Brosnan and Rennie Russo. Oh, the temperature was scorching. The chemistry between those two. But the chemistry between leads to, in this movie, which is directed by and starring Michael B. Jordan as Thomas Crown, who is a rich dude who likes to pull heists. Right? Yeah. I think that's basically it. Although this might be tweaking it slightly. Well, the poster suggests there's a revenge element in this. He has said that, yes.

49:11And this trailer implies that he may have been racing against his rival, question mark, Kenneth Branagh, question mark, Russian accent, question mark. And that maybe some kind of shenanigans went down leading to Thomas Crown going through a car crash, question mark.

49:31Chris Hewitt:Thomas Crown broke his crown. Maybe. And then Ken tumbling after. So maybe that's why he's out for revenge. I'm literally just going off the one viewing of the trailer. So they're tweaking this. They're tweaking this. But I will say that the sexiness quotient is off the fucking charts. Because I think these two are going to have chemistry to spare. I'm talking, of course, about Michael B. Jordan and Ken Branagh. It's going to be... No, wait. It's Audrey Arjona. She's in this movie as well. Oh, my God. Great week for her. I was watching the trailer before she appeared. and I was like, they've cast someone impossibly hot in this movie opposite Michael B.

50:04Chris Hewitt:Jordan. I know they have, but I can't. Oh, yes, of course. It's like, yeah, Wonder Woman. And she appeared. That's it. By magic. Spinning around. Yes. I'm really, really excited for this. I enjoyed the trailer. When the trailer comes up from Academy Award winner, Michael B. Jordan, I did smile at that. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah, I know that's right. That's awesome. But yeah, he also directed Creed III, which I thought was a solid directorial debut. really good job with that and yeah to take this on is is ballsy because as you mentioned uh the two thomas kind of fair films we've had before are pretty damn good they're good they're good movies i'm i have a quite like i on one hand i feel like we don't need a revenge motive in this because it's the whole point is it's a caper it's a caper and he literally just does it for shits and giggles because he's too rich and has no other way of really you know firing up his adrenaline right?

51:00That's the idea, certainly in the 99 one. I guess that is unappealing now from our rich people? Not only was he a rich people, he was a rich white person and this is definitely just by virtue of Michael B. Jordan in the titular world, it's not that which changes things. Okay, so then he doesn't need a revenge saga.

51:19Chris Hewitt:Well, maybe he does. I mean, maybe you introduce an emotion to it as a good thing, but frankly, I want our rich people to do fun shit like this. I want our rich people to pull heists where they're actually stealing artwork rather than you know, stealing oxygen and ruining the world. That's true. But I do wonder if there is a question mark there over how sympathetic you can possibly make an art-stealing billionaire in 2026. That'll be interesting. But look, if it's just like impossibly hot people like sexing each other up and playing mind games, I'm for that every 30 years. I hope they sing I Want to Sex You Up by Color Me Bad.

51:56Oh my God, yes.

51:57Chris Hewitt:Oh my God, it's the sexiest song of all. If you notice my voice, it got extra sexy because I'm just talking about this song. Yeah, yeah. Oh. Ooh, I want to sex you up. It's not appropriate in the workplace. Okay. Lucky follow. She's not here. You're trapped in this room with me, I'm on. Oh, and by the way, I am a defeat staff. I'm not. It's disgusting. No kink shaming, but just smelly. Are we done with talking about the trailers? The lovely trailers? I think so. All right, because now it falls to us to talk about something much, much sadder, the great Glenn Hansard, who was the star and along, of course, with Marquette Erglova, the Oscar-winning composer slash singer of Falling Slowly from John Carney's Once.

52:47Chris Hewitt:And Glenn Hansard was a musician, he was an actor, he was a singer, he was a songwriter. He passed away very suddenly in a motorbike accident near Dublin. You didn't realise how far his influence went, but there were things like he used to busk every Christmas to raise money for a charity in Dublin and got incredible stars out to busk with him. He had Bono busking with him and that kind of thing. as part of that. He did a lot for Charity That Way. The Frames obviously have just one of the best live acts out there and have a huge fan base. But also just for somebody who didn't make very many films, had an incredible hit rate.

53:29I remember him as Outspan in The Commitments, so-called for his orange hair. But then to follow that up with Wands, to work with John Carney, he had a little role in Cyrano, which is kind of a curiosity. But otherwise, Because, you know, he didn't do a lot of films, but the ones he did really made an impact.

53:48Chris Hewitt:The great Glenn Hansard, who passed away so suddenly at the age of just 56. Also, someone who passed away this week was the great Chuck Russell, who died at the age of 74. Now, when I say the great Chuck Russell, as a guy of a certain age who grew up as a horror guy, who grew up in the 1980s, Chuck Russell was a pretty huge name in 1980s horror because he was the director of Nightmare on Elm Street 3, The Dream Warriors, which is arguably the best Nightmare on Elm Street movie, certainly the best Nightmare on Elm Street sequel, and was absolutely terrific. But he also directed a film that is, I think, really hard to find.

54:36Chris Hewitt:It is his remake of The Blob, which is about a gelatinous alien life force that attacks a small town and the blob the remake is vastly superior to the Steve McQueen original remake that Michael B. Jordan let's do that I would love to see that Michael B. Jordan is the blob what an acting challenge that would be you think Steve McQueen was the blob? no Steve McQueen was not the blob Steve McQueen was fighting the blob so why would Michael B. Jordan be the blob? because it's an acting challenge no one has ever been the blob before right what a great opportunity to show your acting range I think it might be tough for the most chiseled man in Hollywood to play the blob if we're honest he is so sick of his diet by now he wants to cut loose yeah he wants some McFlurries Michael B.

55:32Chris Hewitt:Jordan wants to be the blob and I think this is the way he could do it anyway if you haven't seen the blob try and find The Blob The Blob is I don't think it's widely available but it's a really really cracking film and then as a director as well Chuck Russell had success with the likes of The Mask he is the guy who introduced Cameron Diaz to the world he also directed Arnold Schwarzenegger in Eraser I got a soft spot for that film yeah and he was just a very very solid writer a good genre director who perhaps never really took off after The Mask and Eraser. But those two movies, Nightmare on Elm Street 3 and The Blob, will forever put them in the horror pantheon for me.

56:16Chris Hewitt:So very, very sad news indeed that we lost Chuck Russell as well at the age of just 74. We have to bring the news section to an end, sadly, because we're running out of time. But I believe the new issue of Empire is on sale right now. Is this true? It is. Is this true? The Rings of Power issue. The issue forged in the fires of Mount Doom. Which was a problem at first because it's made of paper and it kept burning up, but we managed to find a way to make it stick. We figured it out. It's also got my visit to Aardman in it for their 50th birthday. That's exciting. And also we've got a Wildwood pullout and much, much more.

56:49Chris Hewitt:Much, much more is cracking. Rings of Power Season 3, Sauron himself is on the cover of that, is on sale right now in all good, evil and virtual news agents. We will, of course, be doing the deep dive of the shameless plug with Nick Dissemy and the editor of Empire in a week or so. But yes, go and buy Empire right now. All right, should we have a guest? Let's do it. Let's do it. Should we have a guest who technically hasn't happened yet, so I don't know whether it has happened yet, but I hope it's going to happen. Let's assume it's going to happen. All right. It is Destin Daniel Cretton, who is a fantastic director of the likes of Short Term 12, of course, and Just Mercy.

57:28Chris Hewitt:and he moved into the MCU a few years ago with Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings and he liked it so much he stuck around the MCU. He was, I believe, the first director on what is now Avengers Doomsday was back then Avengers of Kang Dynasty. He has also co-created Wonder Man, which is about to start shooting its second season. But he has jumped over from Shang-Chi to Spider-Man, Spider-Man with Spider-Man Brand New Day, which sees Tom Holland return to our cinema screens for the first time in four or five days. Very, very exciting indeed. And he's brought his little scene friends with him, Cyndia and John Bernthal, along for the ride as well.

58:07Chris Hewitt:It'll never work. It'll never catch on. We'll talk about this in depth in just two seconds. But I am literally in about 18 minutes racing out of here to talk to Destin Daniel Cretton. So let's hope it happened. And here it is, if it did. Destin Daniel Cretton, director of Spider-Man Brand New Day. Welcome to the Emperor Podcast. How are you, sir? I'm doing very well. Thank you. You're doing a lot better than I am. Well, opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm a bit jet lagged and sleepy and you've been running. I've been running in 33 degree heat, which we're not used to. I'm just looking at me. I'm a, you know, the freckled Irish guy.

58:43Chris Hewitt:I'm just not used to temperatures like this is ridiculous. People will have heard on our podcast because we literally just finished recording the podcast, me tee up this interview. Oh, really? And I say like, I'm literally running out the door now to talk to Destin Daniel Cretton, and I don't know whether it's going to happen. so I hope it does happen. So this is good. We're off to a good start. Yeah. But I didn't realize I'd be so flustered and out of breath. So you know what I'm going to ask about this movie is you just talk for 20 minutes or so and I'll just recompose myself over here in the corner.

59:10Chris Hewitt:But no, of course not. Talk me through that journey. Talk me through how we got here to this point because Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings comes out a few years ago now. What was your focus at that point? Were you thinking Shang-Chi 2? Yeah, I mean, Shang-Chi 2 was definitely something that we've been trying to develop from the get-go. But there were a lot of things that happened around that time. I mean, there was a couple of strikes, we were going through the pandemic. So the industry went through a lot of things around that time. So I was kind of just going with the flow. I took some time doing some TV and spending time with the family.

59:56And yes, Avengers came along and then Spidey came along and here we are. That seems like a shortened version of the Germany.

1:00:06Chris Hewitt:It is, it is. What was it like in terms of the success of Shang-Chi? Because obviously, I think going into the MCU from your background, which I guess is fair to say I've been largely independent up to that point, the success of that movie in the middle of a pandemic as well is particularly impressive. So did it change your life overnight? Did it change how you were perceived in Hollywood? Did it change the opportunities that were coming your way? Was that something you had to take stock of for a minute or two? Yeah. I've never really had too many moments where it feels like, oh, my life is completely changed in this moment.

1:00:46Everything feels like a stepping stone or a shift um and shang chi was a yeah it was a it was a huge stepping stone i would say yeah um and i i i learned so much in that movie i learned how much fun it can be working on these big big canvas movies um and it allowed me to explore doing that with some other movies some and some that didn't work out, but allowed me to get into this one.

1:01:19Chris Hewitt:What did you enjoy about working on a bigger canvas? I love being on set and I love being on set with a big team of really talented people who are passionate about something. And there's something about these movies, these superhero movies, that everybody just gets giddy on set because we're tapping into some part of our childhood. You know, everybody who is working on these played with these toys or read these comics or have some type of piece of their childhood is wrapped up in this. And being around that energy is really, really fun for me. I also find that it's really gratifying to search for the part of these big movies that I personally connect with and just try to cling on to that over the course of shooting these big action scenes.

1:02:18Chris Hewitt:So let's jump ahead then to that and that personal connection with the movie and with Peter Parker as well. What was that personal connection for you? What was your way into the character and into the movie? i mean peter parker has always been you know i you hear everybody say this in various forms i grew up on maui and i i have really no cultural connection to a kid growing up in queens um who has spider powers but he's still the character that i chose to dress up with like on Halloween and the character that I gravitated towards. And I think it's his imperfections. It's him being bullied at school.

1:03:09It's him making tons of mistakes and still moving forward it's his pain of his past and and somehow this character has has a way of of staying really positive and joyful and funny despite all of the obstacles in front of him um that's the base layer of what i why i've always connected with him but in this particular movie starting in a place with a character who is literally entirely alone in the middle of one of the biggest cities in the world that feeling is something that i have definitely been through at certain points in my life and i i felt like that was a very exciting place to start a character for a movie and try and forge

1:04:01Chris Hewitt:connections from there yeah as well it feels like a very new york film as well very much steeped in city. Not necessarily always shot there of course. As close as we can get. How difficult is it to shoot a New York movie not entirely in New York? Well when you have Charlie Wood as your production designer it's anything is possible. And we started with all of our department heads in New York City. We all went there and that was where we first met together and walked those streets took photos um and and just felt the vibe of the city and that that was where we we initially set the goal of like how do we capture the heart of the city in our in our movie and not make it feel like we are on a film set we didn't want the movie version of New York.

1:04:58And Charlie Wood and his team really set the tone on creating, I mean, we built one of the biggest New York backlots in the world right here and outside of London at Pinewood. And when you go up and when you walk those streets, we had people from New York come and walk our backlot and they were blown away by the details and the grittiness. You can almost smell the trash. The amount of detail that Charlie would put into the trash and the dirtiness was pretty profound.

1:05:39Chris Hewitt:Brand new day, smell-o-vision. That's the next thing. Yes. I would love it. You can smell what Spider-Man smells like. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I would love to smell what it's like being in Peter Parker's grungy apartment.

1:06:00Chris Hewitt:In your opinion, what does Spider-Man smell like? I bet you he does not smell that great. I mean, the dude is wearing basically a wetsuit while he's swinging and working out all day long that i think that thing probably needs a wash maybe just one reason why mj is like i don't know you dude you smell horrific um i want to talk about the sequence the peter parker or spider-man sequence that made you feel like a kid again is that something we can talk about or is that a big spoiler um on set shooting it going okay this is yeah we can talk about any i mean there are there are sequ there are many sequences in this movie that made me feel like a kid but one in particular i have a i have a photo of of myself when i was about five years old my my older brother was seven at the ish at the time i'm wearing a spider-man tank top and my brother denim is wearing a hulk tank top and we're just two kids in the back our backyard and haiku maui and when i when i stumbled across that photo recently it just was baffling to me that i'm doing a movie with both of those characters in it So that sequence in particular between Spider-Man and the Hulk was, it was so fun to shoot.

1:07:42And yes, it is one of those scenes that does require a lot of VFX, obviously, because the Hulk is not a practical thing. But the way that we shot it was having Mark and Tom on set together. Mark was in his mocap suit and we shot the entire scene as if I was just shooting a movie, you know, and shooting a regular scene in a movie. So they were able to improvise together and create the scene as we shot. And that mocap suit captured his entire performance and that's what the animators used to turn him into the Hulk. But the playfulness of that scene really felt like we were tapping into something from our childhood.

1:08:38It was really fun.

1:08:40Chris Hewitt:Do you think in shots, so for example, when this came your way, when Brand New Day came your way and the chance to direct Spider-Man, the minute you're offered the job, do you think, okay, I have a million shots. I have a million things I want to do with Spider-Man that haven't been done before. A million angles we haven't seen if him swinging or climbing or doing whatever it is that he does. And I want to get started right away. Is that how you think? Or are you thinking story, first of all? What's your driver? Story. Story first. I mean, sometimes you get certain shots in your head or certain frames from different comics that you want to see in the movie.

1:09:21you put it up on the wall um but it it rarely works to try to jam those into a story and but you kind of have it up there and and sometimes they'll just oh that'll actually be perfect once the once the story catches up to it yeah but um yes for this it was definitely story first

1:09:44Chris Hewitt:uh was how set in stone was the story when you came on board or did or you able to forge it from it will not sentence it's a set in stone now because i know how marvel work

1:09:57Chris Hewitt:is the movie completely locked we might go back

1:10:03Chris Hewitt:but it's pretty much set in stone okay so but it wasn't at the time so how did you how did you forge that how did you um chris and eric were our our screenwriters at that at that time and And I jumped in with them in the writers room and it was wonderful. They are incredibly collaborative and they had been working on versions of this for a good year and a half or two years or something. And so they had a lot of ideas on the table, and we just hopped in together and started figuring out what our story was going to be. But the core idea was always the same, which was Peter Parker is entirely alone.

1:10:58And what does that isolation do to a person who is part man, part spider? For normal human beings, we all know that isolation is incredibly harmful psychologically. Basically, total isolation can also be harmful physically and can do damage to your body. Your body just does not like to be completely isolated from people. So to take that into the context of a person like Peter Parker, that was always the goal, to understand what would happen to him if he was completely put outside the context of his community, and then to watch him go on the journey of relearning the importance of connecting with people.

1:11:49Chris Hewitt:And he's older as well, which you skipped through very gracefully. You bring us up to speed on how old he is. 75, I thought, was a bit of a bold gamble. but you know tom holland in an old man suit tom will still look the same age when he is 75 it's it's really depressing but you said that um you know that in a way you felt that kinship with him that you've you know you've been alone uh as well was that like adjusting and moving to a big city was that the the time of isolation for you or and and were you as alone as peter is in this movie where he has nobody to talk to? I mean, there are, you know, when I moved to San Diego from Hawaii, it was definitely a big shift for me.

1:12:38And it was hard. But there are certain times in my life, like when my dad passed away, when I've gone through a major breakup, when I finished college and had no job prospects and didn't know what I was doing with my life. There are certain sections of my life where was I as alone as Peter Parker? Literally, no. Did I feel as alone as Peter Parker? Definitely. I think my brain, the human brain can very easily trick you into thinking that nobody else understands what I'm going through and no one has ever been through something like this. Nobody understands my pain. so I'm not going to share it with anybody and I'm just going to grit my teeth and go through it alone.

1:13:29My response was very similar to Peter Parker's, which was, I'm just going to work. I'm going to do nothing but work. And that was when I would just buckle down and make movies. What I discovered over time and what I see Peter Parker discovering over the course of this movie is that we, as much as we sometimes believe we're entirely alone, we're really not. And if we open our eyes and look around, there are people who fully understand what we're going through if we just kind of put the feelers out.

1:14:08Chris Hewitt:Did you have a friend as sociopathic as Frank Castle who helped reconnect you with society? No, but I wish I did. Everyone needs a friend. Everybody needs a Frank Castle. Can I be frank? I need a Frank. I want to go back to the journey from Shang-Chi to Spider-Man because there was an Avengers detour along the way. You were working on what was the Kang Dynasty, and obviously that didn't happen for a number of reasons that were beyond your control. But what was that experience like, and why did you take that gig as well? Was that something that you felt that, okay, this is a huge opportunity. I've got to do it.

1:14:49Yes, it was a big opportunity, but I also really liked that character. I really liked Kang, that character. And I had a lot of fun playing in that world and figuring out what that story was going to be. But, you know, for various reasons, it didn't work out. I was bummed about it but then this new opportunity came along and was very excited to play in another sandbox.

1:15:28Chris Hewitt:How long did it take you to say yes when Spidey was offered? I mean it didn't it took me about 10 seconds to say I was interested So what was the conversation? Were you just talking to Kevin and he was like what do you want to do next? said what do you think about spice what do you think about spidey and i said yeah that sounds really cool where you guys at with it and at the time there were a number of things that were up in the air um so it it took a little bit to you know i just kind of kept doing other things that i was doing and then the subject was brought up again and then this time it was to go and meet with with Amy Pascal and um and Tom Holland and Zendaya and and and then the writers and I was just kind of gathering information to understand what everybody would actually wanted in this movie and what I was stepping into because I was the outsider coming into a pre-existing group and family and i was trying to find out um if this was like a happy family or a dysfunctional family that i was stepping into um and you know to my uh relief everybody was kind of speaking the same language when i was asking them what they want what what their hopes and dreams were for this next movie from Tom Rothman at Sony to Kevin to Amy to Tom Holland and Zendaya and everybody was kind of wanted the same thing.

1:17:10They were after a movie that was more grounded, more street level, something that really felt the beating heart of the city and really allowed room for a real character piece on Peter Parker.

1:17:29Chris Hewitt:Just want to ask very, very quickly, are you still hoping that Shang-Chi 2 might happen? Are boys back in the MCU, which I'm delighted to see? I am always hoping that Shang-Chi 2 will happen. And we are in active development. I'm trying to crack it right now. Destin, pleasure. Thanks so much indeed. Thanks for having me. Alright, that was Destin Daniel Cretton, folks. And Spider-Man Brand New Day is out today, in fact, as we're recording this on Wednesday, the 29th of July, in the year of Our Lord of the Rings, 2020-26. Very, very exciting indeed. Who wants to talk about this movie first? It is pretty much the only movie in town this week.

1:18:10Chris Hewitt:Hell's Bells, do you want to have a go at it? Yeah, can do, absolutely. So this brings us back to Peter Parker's story after basically everyone has forgotten that Peter Parker exists and he throws himself fully, entirely into Spider-man-ing with a light sideline in Iron Manning. Like he's doing a lot of like 3D printing and developing gadgets and things and stuff and watching Instagram stories of Ned and MJ off at MIT at college, having no idea he exists. And literally four years or three years anyway have passed with them at college and him just Spider Manning. He's become a hero of the city.

1:18:53he's basically wiped out crime in New York he has achieved sort of Batman in between The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises levels of I've got this very proud yeah well done him but he's not a happy camper he still has no human relationships except for a slightly sort of cantankerous quasi not friendship with The Punisher obviously John Bernthal's Frank Castle and that's where we kind of pick up with him after a sort of like quick, you know, run through that history. He then is called into action to stop a runaway tank which appears to be headed for the mysterious Department of Damage Control under the control of Tramiel Tillman and there's something weird about this.

1:19:41There is some unseen force that is directing this tank towards its target, something that other people can't see or sense that Spider-Man can see and sense. And he has to grapple with what this new adversary is or who it is and what's going on. His quest also brings him into contact with Bruce Banner, who is now teaching at Empire State University, which is a comic book equivalent of Columbia. He's got the Hulk under control. He's wearing an inhibitor. All is well with Bruce. I'm sure that'll be working out fine then. I'm sure it's going to be fine. I don't think we're going to see the Hulk this movie.

1:20:19Just Bruce. Just ignore the posters. And yeah, Peter goes to him for help because he starts also kind of mutating. Some spidery shit is going down. He doesn't quite know. There's a sort of hand-wavy line about, oh, well, when spiders are on their own and they're unhappy, things go crazy with them. And you're like, okay, I'm sure. Thank you, Keith David. I don't think they're very convivial creatures. I didn't know spiders could feel sad. That sucks. I didn't. I still don't think I believe it, but I haven't done the research and I assume they have, so I'll take it as read. Anyway, the film basically goes on from there.

1:20:56So he has to find this mysterious person, unravel this mysterious mystery, potentially work with the Punisher, not the easiest thing to do, and maybe we hope find a way to get Peter Parker's life back to some degree after the events of the last film. We hope, but it's not going to be easy. So look, I still think Tom Holland is an incredible, incredible, both Peter Parker and Spider-Man. I think he's great in this film. I don't think we have enough for Zendaya to do, but everything she does is very good. And we get these new characters, you know? We get new people to kind of sink our teeth is the wrong word into, but we get new people for him to bounce off, which I very much enjoyed.

1:21:41It's a pretty, I think it's a more tightly plotted film than last time. I still think there's some plot holes you could drive a truck through or a tank. I think that there are some cool action scenes and some others that are a bit just CG crazy. But overall, I thought the emotional beats really hit pretty hard in this movie. And I thought that was where it was really strongest. So yeah, I really enjoyed it, actually. I don't think it's up there with Into the Spider-Verse or No Way Home for my personal favorite spider movies. but I really enjoyed this and I'm really looking forward to seeing it again.

1:22:19I think in terms of the emotional stuff it got me a little bit misty at points and I think the character stuff is so good. The general dynamic in these MCU Spidey movies of Peter, MJ, Ned is such a unique thing that you don't find anywhere else in the MCU and the character side of this is almost a bit of a mega mix of Raimi's Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2. because on the one hand, you have Peter dealing with these bodily changes and his powers going berserk and not necessarily knowing how to use his powers anymore, feeling kind of overwhelmed by them, whilst at the same time, in being distanced from Ned and MJ, who don't remember who he is, wrestling with the almost Spider-Man no more dilemma of like, I've kind of had to go all in on being Spider-Man because I have nothing else.

1:23:12And so I think emotionally it's dealing with really core Spider-Man stuff. It is, to me, took me a bit back to those Raimi films in those scenes whilst also presenting a new spin on it. It's not just rewalking it because it's very much in the context of the post No Way Home spell. And so that side of it really worked for me. The action, I think is perfectly decent. There are some great shots in there, like cool action shots that have the whole audience going, ooh, pure cool factor. And some of the new things that they introduce here, I think feel really exciting, feel really fresh, will give us a lot of exciting things to look forward to in kind of future movies.

1:23:55And I just had a great time with it. I had a really enjoyable time with the movies. It's too long. Yes. Yeah, it's very long. There's a lot going on and I think it does a really good job of managing to tie all these threads together and have a bit of a A leads to B, so B leads to C. It's just that you're eventually going like S leads to T, T leads to U. Oh, so you've read a Christopher Nolan dictionary by Helmer Harrow. It really taught me a lot about the alphabets and Christopher Nolan. So I don't know what you'd snip, but I think if it was like 15, 20 minutes shorter, it would be like, go and see Spider-Man.

1:24:31It's so zippy and fun. And it's not zippy and firm. Yeah, and as a very quick note, they made a big deal last night of stay through the credits. There's something at the very end of the credits. There is. I wouldn't rank it high among the post-credit scenes. So if you're desperate for the loo, don't stress too much. And it is only at the end of the credits, so you can run out during the credits if you need to. Yeah. Yeah, I largely agree with what you're both saying. I had a really, really good time. And it does feel like the best of the solo Spidey adventures from Raimi and with stuff that we've been craving from that kind of story matched with the MCU stuff that this Spidey has grown up in with all the impromptu team-ups with Hulk and Punisher and the action.

1:25:18I think the action I don't think decent is the right adjective. I think there's some action in this which is among the best Spider action we've seen in a live action Spider-Man movie. All the stuff they do with the hand is awesome. It did have me whooping and cheering a lot in the cinema. You mentioned Tramiel Tillman. I think he's perfectly cast in this because if you watch Severance, which you should, great show, he plays a character in that which he's kind of simultaneously ultra-friendly, but you're also wondering, are you a little bit shady at the same time? And that, I think, is put to really perfect use as his character, as the head of the damage control.

1:25:54Really loved what Caccino did with the score as well, just to make everything, just to lean into the mature feeling that this gives you. I think he has spoken about taking certain notes out of the theme, which absolutely works. And he plays things in kind of a more sad, melancholy register, which really, really works. I do agree with you that is too long. But I also, because Chris, we've been talking in the past about this film, about how much it has to do, and worrying about whether or not it's going to be overstuffed. I don't know if you take those 15 minutes out. I don't know where you take it out and have something that this film is dealing with still be satisfyingly served.

1:26:34But I do agree with you that it's a bit too long. I had a really, really great time though. I can't wait to see it again. Also, you briefly mentioned before, and I felt this while I was watching it, if you love the Insomniac games... I was literally saying, that's from the game! There's certain moves, there's certain things they do, but also, as Helen said, the setup of this, we get a bit of a montage of like, here's a bunch of Spidey stuff he's been doing and that involves Spidey jumping on rooftops where there's a bunch of guys with guns and zappy sticks and he like thwips them all onto the walls and stuff and if you like that game or those games and you like that version of Spider-Man which we haven't really had that much cinematically of just like being in New York taking down bad guys, dealing with some of the Spidey roster and also just being like a young adult in New York City moving away from the high school stuff of the previous trilogy, you will get that in this film.

1:27:30And you'll be very excited by all of the crazy takedown moves that you're like, I did that. Yes. Two anonymous goons on a roof. This was me last night.

1:27:39Chris Hewitt:Yeah, it's great. I didn't have, not to bring this back to the Odyssey and Odysseus shagging his way around Ancient Greece. I didn't have a problem with the length. Oh boy. What? it seemed fine to me I only checked my watch a couple of times just to see how long it was to go just to try and gauge what had still to happen yeah and I think they very very confidently handled the overstuffing problem one of the ways they do that is that one of the characters we've talked about I'm not going to say which one is a glorified cameo and so therefore the focus is squarely on Peter and you're right Helen that means that Jacob Batalon and Zendaya don't have that much to do because the focus is so squarely on Peter but I thought that it was very very well handled yeah I mean every scene with them counts oh absolutely absolutely and one of the most emotional moments I've had in the MCU comes during one of those moments when the three of them are together but there's also a sense of fun and sippiness that said the John Watts movies were comedies I would say pretty much out and out especially Homecoming was a comedy Far From Home was very very funny and obviously No Way Home has big deaths and stuff in it so it's naturally less funny but once Peter 1 Peter 2 and Peter 3 come together it's just joy this movie is less funny deliberately it's not that jokes don't land they do land it's just that there aren't that many of them and it is I think as I said earlier on when we were talking about the Spider-Man movies at the beginning.

1:29:22Chris Hewitt:I think this is a much more successful version of what The Amazing Spider-Man was trying to do. And it is a brand new day and it does feel very, very different from the John Watts Home trilogy. And I'm intrigued to see where he goes, where this character can go and if Destin Daniel Cretton is the person to go with him. Because I know he's maybe hoping to do, in fact, I'll ask him when I leave this place in about three minutes I'll ask him what the deal is with Shang-Chi 2 that sort of stuff so we'll see but yeah I had a real blast with it some great visuals Tom Holland's so good in this role so so good and yeah four stars and heartily agree with that absolutely four stars indeed there are some films that have chosen to go up against Brand New Day which apparently is going to like have an interesting weekend at the box office is going to be the biggest movie of the year by some distance.

1:30:19Chris Hewitt:Although The Odyssey is doing incredibly well. Lots of repeat business so far. So fascinating to see how those two films fare. I know. I just hope the one with Tom Holland, Zendaya and Jon Bernthal wins, really. At this point, they've got to be trying to add Jon Bernthal to Dune Part 3. I would imagine, yeah. Not Jon Bernthal. Who am I thinking of? Tom Holland, that's right. Neither are those two. Both of them. Okay, so only one of those three is in Dune Part 3. Yeah, it's a real problem. It is a real problem. But at least they've got Pattinson. Anyway, Ish. Let me talk about Ish. This is a new film.

1:30:51It is the directorial debut by Imran Pereta, who also wrote the screenplay with Ender Walsh. And it's a kind of coming-of-age drama. It's shot in beautiful black and white on British streets. Very British film. It's about two little boys, Ish, who's played by Farhan Haznat, and his friend Maram, who's played by Yahya Katana. And they are both 12. Maram is like older and taller, or taller and looks older, which may explain why he at one point gets picked up by the police who are going around racially profiling people. And he gets pretty quickly released because he's 12 and literally a child. And also the police are being assholes at the time in this film.

1:31:32And, but it kind of drives a wedge between these kids because Ish runs away when the police stop and try and pick them up. and Maram is pissed off, understandably so, and hurt and doesn't know how to process his feelings of, you know, just anger, essentially, and betrayal and unfairness and everything else. So it's kind of about these two boys kind of negotiating this wedge that's been driven between them and just the way that they're being treated in their world. It's beautifully put together. It's a short little film. I think it's 87 minutes. it's not going to sort of you know fundamentally change your view of the world but it is really beautiful portrayal of something very real in this country that happens and I thought the child performances were absolutely off the charts great these two are apparently friends in real life so they didn't have to work at that you know those scenes of like really being on the same page and almost reading each other's minds but they like this is performance and they give really good performances on top of that.

1:32:37So I thought it was great. I think it's probably a four for us. But yeah, really worth a look if, you know, you've already seen Spider-Man and the Odyssey and you want to have something a little smaller, a little quieter, a little bit more focused.

1:32:51Chris Hewitt:All right. Nothing dreadful on Netflix or Prime Video? No, it's the end of the month and they don't tend to release a lot of films then. I couldn't find anything anyway. Something's just dropped today, which I am excited to watch with a beer and a cheap pizza. It's called The Devil's Mouth and it is a crappy shark movie starring the magnificently un-crappy Catherine Newton. It's on Prime Video. So it might not be crappy. It might not be crappy. You're presuming the crappiness. I mean, it's from the director of Blumhouse's Fantasy Island and Imaginary. Jeff Wadlow. Jeff Wadlow. You're a real Wadlow head.

1:33:23I was so close. I was so close. Wow. I actually quite enjoyed Imaginary. It's got some loopy stuff at the end. The Devil's Mouth. I haven't seen it. I will be watching it. My expectations. I'm uttered. We missed water park sharks recently, you know.

1:33:37Chris Hewitt:Oh, no. I know. I, for one, am upset. Well, on that note, that is it for this week's Empire Podcast. Join us next week for more film-related fun. We'll be joined by... I don't know what date it is, what's happening, or what's out next week, but there'll be good people. Cool. Have you checked the... No, I don't have time. I've got to run. But it's good people. I promise you, good people. I hope anyway speaking of good people it's time to say goodbye to my three colleagues of such lethal cunning goodbye Helen O 'Hara toodaloo goodbye I'm on Warman peace goodbye Ben Travis bye I'm sorry that this bit was truncated but I do have to run to interview Destin Daniel Cretton and I am running late I've got to swing across London the problem is there aren't enough tall buildings it's a real problem imagine that in my brain also I've got to get these tight underpants on as well to do my swing I like to swing in tight underpants yeah well at least you're wearing underpants it would be worse without now that would be swinging yes I must tell Destin Daniel Cretton no sex scenes thanks for listening see you next time bye bye