Our Favourite Curry (ft. guests Jodie Comer & Michael Sarnoski)

16:04Chris Hewitt:That is probably accurate. Obviously, he took a backseat over the last few years where he had a stroke and he was suffering from ill health. And so he didn't act as much, I'd say, in the last 10, 15, maybe even 20 years of his life. It's interesting you say you grew up with him as the villain because I was first introduced to him through Clue. And he's very much not the villain of that movie. No, he's so good in that. As Wadsworth, the butler, who kind of powers that movie. I love that film so much. Jonathan Lynn directed, John Landis scripted, wild take on the Cluedo board game with an amazing murderer's row of murderers.

16:48Chris Hewitt:So you have like Eileen Brennan and Madeline Kahn and Christopher Lloyd and Michael McKeon and incredibly, Tim Curry just dominates them all. It's a film that famously had three endings and when it was shown on TV, which is where I first saw it, it had all three endings together and Tim Curry just takes the film by the scruff of the neck in those endings because as the butler, he delivers this incredible monologue wrapping everything up and he's running from room to room and people are running after him and he's delivering this dialogue at 100 miles an hour and it's still legible. It still sinks in and he's funny and he's likable.

17:29Chris Hewitt:And I was like, who's this dude? I like this dude. And then from there I discovered things at Rocky Horror Picture Show. Legend in which we don't even get to see him. Jimbo, I don't know what your favorite Tim Curry moment film is. Legend was an earlier I saw Legend in the cinema.

17:43Alex Godfrey:I didn't come to Rocky Horror until later in life when there was a period I don't know if you guys had this at university where people would go and see it on stage while dressed as Frank-N-Furter. So you get lots of people in kind of bustiers and like stockings obviously I looked very fetching in my high heels but no for me initially I guess he was Rooster in Annie which I think you can all agree is the greatest screen musical but no I loved I genuinely loved Annie growing up but yeah he was great in that but you know take that Frank and Furter and also as you know I love video games you remember the Command and Conquer games when they had those FMV the full motion video things and he was the Russian premier in Red Alert 3 which is mad but no for me Pennywise for me is his greatest role that that show and that character scared me so profoundly, so viscerally.

18:30Alex Godfrey:There are few things that have disturbed me as much as that miniseries, which is mad when you watch it now, because you watch it now isn't scary at all. But when you're young and during that period, there's just something so inherently creepy that you didn't need the gore, because there isn't a lot of gore. You didn't need huge prosthetics. You didn't need any of the stuff that you get in the remake of it, because it's really gnarly. That whole miniseries is hinged on his unnerving performance. and he's, bearing it on, he's wearing like baggy pantaloons with kind of crazy hair, but there is a menace to his almost like innocuous demeanour, you know, when he's like, would you like a balloon?

19:05Alex Godfrey:It is properly chilling. He is masterful. I interviewed him about 10 years ago for another publication about it. And we spoke, you know, for 20 minutes or so about Pennywise and he told me this story about how, and he did the voice for me.

19:26Chris Hewitt:Oh. Yeah. He said I was doing this scene with the little boy and Tim Curry said to me down the line and he did, down here we float or whatever it is. And that was a terrible impression. It was pretty bad. And the boy who was playing the boy said, yeah, he said, stop it, you're scaring me. Oh, pet. And Tim Curry says, I'm sorry, I'm supposed to be.

19:54Alex Godfrey:Well, do you know, because Bill's gone, because Skarsgård, you start asking him if they were okay after every take, because he didn't want to freak them out.

19:59Chris Hewitt:Perhaps that's why. Okay, Bill, you're Pennywise, for the love of God. Scare the shit out of them. It's your job. He was genuinely unnerving on that set, apparently. I never interviewed him. If I had, I would have asked him to recreate the last 30 minutes of Clue. Just like running from room to room. That's the film, Hells Bells. Flames, flames in the side of my face. I know, I know, yeah. I saw it later, though. That's why it's not one of my formative Tim Curry experiences. But it is an incredible performance. So if you had to go for a curry, you would go for? I mean, I'd go for the Hunt for Red October, which is my answer to most things.

20:32Oh, my God. Dr. Petrov. He's in the Hunt for Red October. Dr. Petrov.

20:36Chris Hewitt:Oh, my God. Yes. Yes. Oh, what a man. He's very sweet and naive in that. He is. He's so lovely. Oh, bless him.

20:45Alex Godfrey:Helen is right, though. You think he's been in loads of stuff, and he has been in loads of stuff, but he's not been in loads of big things. He just made a big impact in the things that we... National Lampoon's Loaded Weapon won. But this also speaks to what you were saying before, Chris, because he has done a lot of stuff and a lot of it was not very good because, like you say, Hollywood, I think, Hollywood just didn't really know what to do with him. Yeah. Because he wasn't an obvious archetype for anything. Yeah. Can I say as well, I love that he's one of the people who is on record as having an affair with Miss Piggy.

21:17he has talked on the record about it as has of course uh sir roger moore talked about it in his autobiography um i think charles groden went on the record as well i want her tell all i want her

21:29Chris Hewitt:autobiography i mean are these actually like consummated affairs that's the story he told what he said basically he she she basically got crossed at him because you know he admitted to having a girl in every port but he said you're the only pig but then he made the mistake of calling her a silly sausage

21:46Alex Godfrey:and that didn't go down well. What would her teller be called? Like making bacon? Honestly, I mean, I don't know about Kevin Bacon, but yeah, I think she could be up there with BD. I said this online, but I honestly believe it. I think she may have one of the all-time conquest walls, you know, in Hollywood. Yeah, Tim Curry porked her. Oh, oh no. Oh no.

22:10Chris Hewitt:Oh no. Too much? Too soon? Too soon. He'd probably be alright. with it. I mean, Miss Piggy's not dead, so I think it's okay. But what happens, like, if you are consummating the relationship with Miss Piggy, what does the puppeteer do? Like, do they just effort to rise? Oh, the puppeteer's already in there. Are they getting involved? What's happening? I want to know. That's further than I'd thought it through, if I'm honest. Does she scream hiya at a key moment? I mean, who knows? It does, doesn't it? What? You opened the door, Helen. I'm sorry. It was my mistake. How does it work? What are the ins and outs, so to speak, of a Muppet orgy?

22:50Chris Hewitt:If you know, then please do write in and tell us. Don't. A lot of this might be explored in Avenue Q. Do not write to me. I want no part of this. Just how does it work? I'm just fascinated by the whole thing. How does it work? How does sex work? Tell me. Shall we take a little break? Let's. And then come back in two seconds and dig deep into the movie news. Bye-bye. Okay, folks, we are back, back, back, and it is time now to dig deep into the movie news. There's not a lot of movie news around this week. We've waited until Thursday afternoon. There's not a lot of big movie news stories to get our teeth into.

23:31Chris Hewitt:But shall we start off? We talked about Tim Curry earlier on, and we also lost Peter Cullen. I'm sorry that Amon isn't here to talk about him because he is evangelical about the role that Peter Cullen played in the success of the Transformers films. But he really was the voice of Optimus Prime and embodied that voice to a point where even when they were trying to get big-name stars to voice the characters on film, nobody could imagine a better voice than his. So yeah, but what's amazing and what I hadn't realized until I read a whole bunch of obituaries about him is the extent of his other work.

24:08So you mentioned Predator, we mentioned Eeyore in the Winnie the Pooh cartoons he did Monterey Jack in Chippendale and was the first voice of the car in Knight Rider come on no

24:22Alex Godfrey:he's the voice of Kit

24:23Chris Hewitt:no no no he was the original voice of Car

24:25Alex Godfrey:oh Car I was going to say it doesn't sound anything like it Garth Knight's car yes the evil car who could forget Car with a moustache that's amazing with a moustache Car he also had an incredible moustache

24:36Chris Hewitt:the car had an incredible moustache it's red it went back and forth but also Peter Cullen he did have an incredible massage yeah actually I didn't know the thing about the predator so he did the focalizations of the predator predator he could probably say predator without taking a run up at it I bet he could you bet he could he did all the clicking noises yeah oh

24:56Alex Godfrey:terrible I'm trying to audition clickety clickety clickety clickety you sound like Tweaky from Buck Rogers

25:04Alex Godfrey:but yes the man had some some vocal stylings he really did He was so smooth. Autobots roll out. Did you ever interview him?

25:13Chris Hewitt:Did anyone ever interview him? No, he was quite lucid. I think we tried and didn't manage to do it.

25:18Alex Godfrey:I'm sure he was at Comic-Con one of the years we were there. Really? Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was there. I can't remember what for. I think it was Digger Panel. Then he transformed into a truck and drove away. And he was working all through the 80s, which means that if you loved an 80s cartoon, you probably heard him. He was in Rainbow Bright. He was in My Little Pony.

25:35Chris Hewitt:Who did he play in My Little Pony? Has he ever been a Miss Piggy? Captain Crabinasty. Jesus Christ. No, Chris, no. Come on, we've moved on. DuckTales. He was several characters in DuckTales. Wow. The real Ghostbusters. I mean... The real Ghostbusters?

25:49Alex Godfrey:Not the high Ghostbusters. The real Ghostbusters. You know, the cartoon. Which one did he voice? No, he wasn't one of the central ones. He played sort of supporting characters. Dr. Destructo, specifically, and also a police officer. Nominative determinism.

26:04Chris Hewitt:Born to Jeff and Winifred Destructo, a boy. doctor. He had no choice. I'm just an ice cream salesman, for God's sake. You had to grow up and become a goddamn doctor of destruction. Yeah, he was an amazing, amazing, amazing voice actor. I didn't know. Yes, the internet tells me he was the voice of King Kong in the 1976 King Kong uncredited. Yes, he went clickety, clickety, clickety. Did King Kong have a lot of dialogue? No, he... He did the anti-circus thing. You know, the... He makes noises. Have you seen a gorilla? I mean, you know, when he's swiping the planes.

26:42Alex Godfrey:Is that how he sounded? Oh, put me back. That's the genius of Peter Cull. This is why he was good at his children. This is why we'd be terrible at it. Where's Chris gone? Chris has fallen down. I don't know what's happening.

26:56Chris Hewitt:I think he's trying to climb a skyscraper. You know when I say that obituaries can sometimes go off the rails a little bit, I think that is one of those. We can. Oh, thanks, Mom. Jesus Christ. But he was absolutely amazing. and very, very sad indeed. 85 years old. But listen, you know, Amon was, he texted me after the news came out and he was very, very sad. And I get it. And there have been obviously celebrity deaths over the last few years that have hit hard and there are celebrity deaths yet to come. Don't even start. That are going to hit hard, of course. But in moments like this, I think you focus on the work.

27:31Chris Hewitt:You focus on the things they gave us. You focus on the joy that they brought to millions. And in Peter Collins' case, that incredible voice saying Autobots roll out and other things brought joy and he would be very sorely missed yeah

27:45Alex Godfrey:there are a few people who could say Energon cubes and sell it Energon cube he could say

27:52Chris Hewitt:oh amazing that was good actually every time one of us tries to do his voice you realize why he was so good my Optimus is pretty good I'll try it again Optimus alright yeah you're right Alex he was a one off the great Peter Cullen who passed away last week is there anything else that happened in the world of movie news anything else you would like to talk about in a respectful fashion oh then no wow alright let's move on then we got some exciting question mark trailers this week did we? Fokker-in-law has a new trailer with extra bits of cringe it really does because I haven't seen it so this just dropped literally this afternoon and as we record this and has Ben Stiller's Greg singing, serenading, really, Robert De Niro with all of me.

28:45And I think he means it as a genuine sort of tribute, but it's not a non-romantic love song, you know? It doesn't work.

28:53Chris Hewitt:Oh my God. And that instantly makes his father not very uncomfortable. And then, you know, we get the usual setup for the actual movie, which is that he now repeats the mistakes of the past and turns against his child's intended play by Ariana Grande and goes to increasingly demented lengths to break up their marriage. Oh my God, it's like he's not seen Meet the Parents. It's like that, yes.

29:20Alex Godfrey:This is the, count them, fourth film in this series. Yeah, yeah. Four. They are massive at the old box office. I think this one, if anything, will be massiver because of her. I think she will be a big, big draw of people. The first film's great. It really is good.

29:37Chris Hewitt:What was the third one called? Little Fockers? Little Fockers, yeah. I didn't see that one,

29:40Alex Godfrey:I'll be honest with you. Meet the parents, meet the Fockers, little Fockers are now Focker-in-law.

29:44Chris Hewitt:And is the whole gang in this one? Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know if the... Streisand, Hoffman? I don't know if they're in it, actually. Owen Wilson? The Fockers. Wow. Owen Wilson is definitely there. Oh, is he in the trailer? He's in the trailer, yeah. Wow. That's amazing. So, yeah. That's happening. It's happening. Did the trailer look good? it sounds like you want to move on very quickly it looks like a it looks like a film it's gonna be fine and then we also got the trailer for Ink the new Danny Boyle film

30:13Alex Godfrey:oh love it, love a bit of Danny Boyle have you seen the play? I feel like you've seen the play you know I missed this one and I was really annoyed because it got incredible reviews so this is the story of Rupert Murdoch who's going to be played here by Guy Pearce basically taking over and rejigging the Sun newspaper with the help of Larry Lamb, the editor who will be played by Jack O 'Connell with help from Claire Foy and other people are in the movie too. I think it's going to be a very good movie. They all look like they're giving incredible performances. The reviews out of Venice where it premiered I think last night as we record are really, really positive.

30:50My problem is going to be how do I get past the searing anger that I feel at all of these people to assess it as a movie in itself you know and when I say all these people I don't mean the actors or Danny Boyle I mean the characters that these people are playing can I? Why what's Rupert Murdoch ever done? I can't imagine that won't be addressed in the film. I'm sure it will I'm not saying that Danny Boyle would never make something going with Murdoch rocks but just the idea of watching Rupert Murdoch and these people for humanising him I doubt it will

31:25Chris Hewitt:I think this might be more along the lines of The Apprentice, right? I think that did humanise him too much Do you think it humanised Roy Cohn? Yes, I do think it did It didn't paint either of them in a good light though I would say I think it showed you Trump at a vulnerable moment in his life and Roy Cohn at a vulnerable moment in his life and therefore does somewhat humanise him I think more than either of those people who are galactically terrible people deserve. And I worry about the same here. Having said that, in Danny Boyle we trust because he is definitely not a son.

32:00Alex Godfrey:He's a man of the people. And James Graham knows his business. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, he wrote the play. All right. But anyway, it looks like a great piece of drama. This is a me problem that I have to get past.

32:10Chris Hewitt:Yes. And Jack O 'Connell, there was a rumor this week that the Bond shortlist is down to three. And Jack O 'Connell's name is atop of it. Now, nothing official has been announced just yet. But how would you feel if Jack O 'Connell, Lord Sir Jimmy Crystal, Sergeant Lieutenant Frank Drebin, Lord Sir Jimmy Crystal himself were to be Jimbo Bond? I think he's just too inherently roguish. I think Jack O 'Connell is amazing at being wrong-uns. I'm not saying he doesn't have range. He has played people who are not wrong-uns. but I don't know he's got big bad guy energy to me

32:55Alex Godfrey:I think and this is I think every actor who has played James Bond has brought a distinct energy to that role and they've all been the kind of people where when they were cast people were like that's not Bond because it's so like Connery and Roger Moore are poles apart

33:11Chris Hewitt:I remember it well when Roger Moore was cast and I didn't exist at that point I was furious I'm sure you were I popped into existence for a second and went he's not Bond I feel like Pierce Brosnan just got praise. Everyone went. But he just felt like

33:23Alex Godfrey:the inherent sort of bondiness was just baked into his DNA. But someone like Daniel Craig and you're like, really? But then by the time, he brought a very different sort of gruff realist born energy to it. And I feel like if you go like a Jack O 'Connell route, yeah, it's not the Bond that we know, but actually it could be an interesting new generation of what that character is. It'd be an interesting spin because I think he'd be the, he has big not posh energy. Yes, he does. and it would be interesting to see him play posh which I don't think he's really done certainly not very much so that could be an interesting spin on it I've also heard Jack Loudon mentioned quite a lot recently

34:04Chris Hewitt:that is more of an obvious fit it's more obvious the three on the list apparently this is just a rumour and it was from someone on Twitter I don't know how reliable they are the three on the list apparently that Denis Villeneuve and Prime Amazon and I presume Jeff Bezos in his underground lair and other people have whittled down a long, long list. They've seen every eligible actor in England and the three are Jack Loudon, Callum Turner and Jack O 'Connell. And of those three, I think Loudon is the best fit. Weirdly, I interviewed this week Theo James and I went into the room going, Hey, it's Theo James.

34:48Chris Hewitt:I came out going, how is he not Bond? He's got big Bond in it.

34:52Alex Godfrey:What the fuck is going on? He does posh so well in The Gentleman as well. He's very, very good. Although, again, my pick is Puppet S.E.A. I think he has the comedy chops, the action, everything. He's got magnetic screen persona. So, yeah, he would be my pick. I don't know. I mean, obviously, I don't have a dog in this fight, so it's fine. I can sit back and enjoy whatever madness occurs. This might be the one to change your mind. Sure. Yeah. If they cast like Timothy Olyphant or John Bernthal, maybe I'll start caring. Up until then, I'm fine.

35:23Chris Hewitt:John Bernthal. The Punisher as Bond. Just grunting as Bond. What's his English accent like? Doesn't care. It doesn't matter. He just grunts Englishly. The name's Erg. James Erg. Anyway, that's just a rumor. It may not happen, but we shall see. But I'll tell you one thing that isn't a rumor. Oh, God. I'm so good at this. is the news that Days of Thunder 2 is happening. It is coming. Finally. Summer of 2028. It makes sense. It will make money because it's trickled down economics. It's a funny joke. It's good. It seems a shame that the podcast ended before our live show. But you know what? We've had a good run.

36:10Chris Hewitt:And that's it. I'm shutting it down.

36:14Alex Godfrey:This project has failed.

36:18Chris Hewitt:it was properly officially announced this week in a video in which Thomas Cruise Maypother IV announced Days of Thunder 2 with his new co-star oh my god Annie Hath Annie Hath it's Anne Hathaway and she's pregnant but she was like I'm going to have this baby they were going to make this movie and it was it was very it was so much fun there was also a car yeah there was a car does anyone remember that Days of Thunder isn't very good. Am I the only one? I do remember that. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

36:49Alex Godfrey:This is my fear. Top Gun was great and there was a lot of love for it. Top Gun Maverick makes sense. Days of Thunder, not great. Nobody loves it. That's true. Why are we doing it again? I'll tell you why. Because Tom Cruise wants to do a racing film. He just saw his mate Brad Pitt do a racing film which was apparently good and went down very well and made a lot of money. And he's already got an existing... exactly, just about. And he's already got an existing property to do it with. I just think he saw that and thought, I'll have a bit of that. I like racing cars. Hey, I did one already. I'll make another one.

37:24Maybe we've missed something.

37:25Chris Hewitt:Maybe, you know, because Days of Thunder did okay when it came out. This is obviously the attempt by Jerry Bruckheimer and Don Simpson and Tony Scott, the director, and Tom Cruise, of course, to re-bottle the lightning that was Top Gun just four years earlier. And it didn't work that well. it's a decent film it's an entertaining film it's got good performances from the likes of Robert DeValle it's got good racing scenes it looks great because it's a Tony Scott film but I don't think that certainly for the people who were around when the movie came out there isn't that love for it I went back and revisited it recently for the Robert DeValle ranking we did and I was like it's totally fine it's okay he's got an amazing you're talking about great introductions right with Tim Curry it's got an amazing introduction for Cole Trickle because you know as James was hinting at that's the name of his character in this movie Cole trickle.

38:16Chris Hewitt:He has this amazing introduction where he rides onto the circuit on a motorbike with his hair flowing behind him in the wind. And it's so perfectly timed. Like Robert DeVille and someone else are talking maybe 500 yards away and goes, where's this new driver coming from? And as if he's been waiting for his cue, he just rides around the corner on his motorbike. But is it one of those movies that has been discovered by a younger generation? And maybe they love it. Maybe they're getting the numbers back and they're going, lots of people love Days of Thunder. I don't think it matters. I don't think it's doing the same thing that Maverick was doing, which was saying, you've been waiting a long time, we're doing a sequel to a beloved film and trading on nostalgia.

38:53Like I say, I just think he wants to do a racing film and this is an easy way to do it. It's not saying to everyone, we all loved that film and you've been waiting a long time. Hang on. You can't just eat a banana while I'm talking to you about Days of Thunder with a straight face. It's disrespectful to Days of Thunder. I can. I was hoping you wouldn't bring it up. I haven't eaten. I haven't had lunch. That was a comedy banana, if I've ever seen one. I just ate it like a normal banana. Not. Oh my goodness.

39:24Chris Hewitt:I'll put the banana away. Put the banana down. It's five o 'clock I haven't eaten. All right, yes. I don't think this is trading on nostalgia in the same way that the other one. I mean, it's carrying it on, but it's going to be Tom Cruise in 2026 doing probably an amazing car racing film. I don't think it matters that much if people loved the first film. No one can remember it anyway. I think, I mean, it's not clear that they're calling it Days of Thunder 2. They may well be calling it Days of Thunder. They did say... In a Scream 6. They did announce it was called Days of Thunder. If you look at the logo on the car, the R is a 2.

40:01Chris Hewitt:Is it? And the S is a dollar sign. I think they will probably change it or add something. There were rumors that this would be a crossover with F1. What? There would be a sneaky double sequel. That seems unnecessary. You had my curiosity. Now you have my attention. Again, that doesn't change the dynamic for me. I didn't think F1 was all that. So it would be Cold Trickle versus Sunny? Sunny? And Cher? And Cher. No, there, I'm in. There, they've got me back on board. They get to the finishing line. They go, I got you, babe. and other Sonny and Cher songs. I just want you to know that I did not have to look this up, but the name is Sonny Hayes.

40:44Sonny Hayes.

40:45Chris Hewitt:Sonny Hayes. And they'd have to take the finishing line at exactly the same time. It's no Cole Trickle. It's no Cole Trickle, is it? It's pretty similar to Cole. Sonny Hayes. Sonny Hayes.

40:55Alex Godfrey:Sonny Hayes sounds like a porn name. Cole Trickle sounds like an STD. Oh my God.

41:00Chris Hewitt:Cole Trickle sounds like a porn name too. Does it? Do you not think?

41:03Alex Godfrey:Not a very successful name.

41:04Chris Hewitt:It's like a porn soundtrack. Cold trickle in Pork and Miss Piggy. I could see that film. No? You would see that film? No. I would totally see that film. So disrespectful to the hobbits. All right, anything else? Yes, Ridley Scott, promoting The Dog Stars, has been talking again, but with more intent this time, about seriously doing a sequel to Alien Covenant. Exciting. It is exciting. because that film was quite good, had some good stuff in it, but a fucking brilliant ending, which made me want to see another one, the further misadventures of Michael Fassman's character. David. David. Naughty David, switching places, bad David, fooling everybody.

41:56Yeah, he'll do the fingering. James. What? I really wanted to see what happened next. I think, I haven't, I've only seen the headlines. I think Ridley has been saying lukewarm at best things about alien Romulus in this round of press saying it was okay but what we really want is a different sequel I don't think he recognises the canonicity of any alien film not made by him I don't think he sort of believes in the alien queen I don't think he has any particular dog in any of the non Scott Ridley stories so if he is making this I feel like it will be pretty firmly connected to David.

42:38Chris Hewitt:Bring it on. And nothing else. That's a different franchise. It's a great cliffhanger. You know, that's see it resolved. I wasn't a big fan of Alien Covenant, but yeah, that ending is undeniable and you want to see more.

42:51Alex Godfrey:I was dying to see more. I really hope he makes it. So do I. I want that to continue. And Romulus wasn't very good. I'd much rather see a sequel to Covenant. Again, there's been talk

42:59Chris Hewitt:that maybe Romulus and the Covenant sequel might intersect. I hope not. And then Sonny Hayes will come in and have a chess barister.

43:06Alex Godfrey:Or really was a producer on Romulus, lest we forget. Yeah. I mean, this is not an alien Romulus podcast, but I still don't understand how you take the very worst thing of Alien Resurrection and end your film with that. It's just like, did you not see the other one? Anyway. Yeah, anyway. You know, it's happening. Quite liked it. I liked it. Yeah. Apart from those two lines.

43:29Chris Hewitt:Oh. Oh, terrible. Get away from get away from her, you bitch. you bitch that's all I'm gonna say on that one a crime in a cinema okay shall we have a guest in yes yes okay so let's have guests in fact because this week sees the long awaited release in the UK of the death of Robin Hood Michael Sarnowski's latest film came out in the States about six weeks ago something like that and this is a deliberate downbeat retelling of the legend of Robin Hood Robin Hood, as you've never seen him before, very much an older Robin Hood, a man who's committed many atrocities. The legends that you hear surrounding Robin Hood, that he was a cartoon fox, for example, all wrong.

44:15Chris Hewitt:He was a fox though, right? Because he's played with Hugh Jackman. Hey, hey. And he is nearing the end of his life. I think it's fair to say the film is literally called The Death of Robin Hood. and he finds himself severely wounded and on an island that is overseen by a prioress called Bridget who is played by Jodie Comer and their relationship takes some very interesting turns shall we say over the course of this film and Jodie Comer is terrific in this as is Hugh Jackman very well directed by Michael Sarnowski we'll talk about it in just a few minutes in the review section but I went along to a London hotel room and spoke to Jodie Comer and Michael Sarnowski this week.

44:57Chris Hewitt:The film was shot in Northern Ireland which is why we started off talking about Northern Ireland where I had just been. To top up my Northern Irish accent. Brilliant. And have some feet of bread. Och, amazing. And Club Orange. Oh, I'm jealous. My sister actually lives near Tito Castle so she does. Oh, you're kidding. But I have never been on a tour. Wow. All you can eat crisps. Are you kidding? Probably. Just take Mr. Tito home with you. What would happen with Mr. Tito and Miss Piggy? Anyway, here is my interview with Jodie Comer and Michael Sarnowski, do please enjoy. Michael, Jodie, welcome to the Emperor Podcast.

45:30Chris Hewitt:How are you both? I'm really good, thank you. Good, good, good. I'm also really good. Excellent. I was concerned. Yeah, do I not look? It's like, look at you. You look terrible. You look very happy. Okay, thank you. First things first, before we get into the film, how was Northern Ireland? Amazing. Yeah? I mean, I was there for about probably seven weeks. Michael was there. for like a year like a little over 11 months wow yeah I loved it I had a great time I mean we prepped there for like 4 months shot for 30 days and then we edited it there in Hollywood a little town just east of Belfast which is crazy to like come across the world and be like making a movie in Hollywood yeah we did the best cinnamon bun oh my god yeah there was some at a what is the what was the name of that oh honestly I'm the worst it's like a cinnamon scone bun um ugh I can't remember it was right next door to me and it was amazing but yeah I loved it.

46:25Chris Hewitt:Did you indulge in any other kind of Northern Irish things that you can't get over here in England? Like Club Orange? Did you have any Club Orange? What's Club Orange? Club Orange is like an orange drink that kicks the shit out of any orange drink we have over here. No! I love orange. Do you remember Claire would make 11s? And they were the marshmallow with the digestive and the cherry? 15ths is what they call them. I don't call them 11s. Oh, God. It may change from place to place. I was just Guinness and Jameson. That was sort of it for me. And seafood and chowder. The seafood chowder there at the Dirty Duck.

47:01Did you ever go to the Dirty Duck? I don't think I did. The Dirty Duck in Hollywood, that kept me alive.

47:06Chris Hewitt:So you never had, for example, a delights. And believe me, we'll talk about the film in a second. I was back in Northern Ireland last week, and I kind of plugged myself back in like the Matrix to Northern Ireland. Downloaded a lot of Northern Irish stuff. Did you ever have feeder bread? Oh, is that? It's like a malt loaf. Yes, I did. I made the mistake though I made the crisp sandwiches where you do a crisp and butter and then I made it on that kind of bread and someone was like no I don't think you're supposed to do Was it quite dense? Yeah it was too dense for a crisp sandwich So I tried to combine Northern Irish things that didn't quite go together Michael it sounds honestly you lived there for a year Guinness Jameson's and crisp sandwiches with fita bread it's a wonder you're alive That's why it looks so terrible That's why I asked are you okay?

47:50Chris Hewitt:Are you okay? Have you gone to the doctor recently? This is not the death of Michael Sarnowski. We're not doing that. Let's talk about the film. I mean, Jodie, did you get a sense, you know, again, kind of staying with Northern Ireland, you know, you make the place look, at times, horribly intimidating and bleak, but also beautiful. Did you take any inspiration from that for Bridget? I mean, I was quite taken aback, actually, the first time that I seen a cut of the movie. Like you say in that kind of the duality of it being so brutal yet visually stunning, like that first 20, 30 minutes, I didn't think I took a breath because I also wasn't kind of privy to that world.

48:35You know, Bridget resides in a very kind of different part of the movie. Also kind of, I guess, her essence is very different. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. so it was obviously something I read in the script and you can kind of picture but never in my wildest dreams was that kind of playing in my mind's eye you didn't have to be in the freezing mud too much that's why everyone's like how was it in the nature I'm like it was fantastic and then I just pictured Hugh with his face in the mud eating rocks he's like I disagree with that

49:12Chris Hewitt:I mean yeah it looks that opening sequence of the movie it looks cold and brutal and horrible. We shot in February and March, so it was cold. Yeah. That wasn't, we weren't pretending. I mean, the big muddy fight scene, we wanted it to be like in the dirt and kind of muddy, so we were going to like spritz it down, and then it started pouring rain when we shot that, and it was like a freezing rain, and the whole field just like flooded with like foot-deep mud, and I was like, well, we got our mud, I guess, and that was just you rolling around in that mud. Oh, my God. And, Jodie, I spoke to Michael yesterday for a spoiler special about the movie.

49:47Chris Hewitt:You could say the title's a spoiler, but I'm not going to get into that. But we were talking about how the legends of Robin Hood's death do sometimes predict, depict, rather, the prioresp, who's Bridget in this movie, as someone who betrays him, someone who may even be evil, for want of a better word. That is not your character at all. Can you talk about crafting her, shaping her, finding your way into her and her humanity in a way, which is such a key part of the movie? Yeah. I mean, I have to be really honest and say that I didn't kind of look back and make any sort of comparison because when I read Michael's script, his interpretation felt absolute to me and like very clear.

50:31and her humanity was what kind of astounded me. You know, there's a kind of catalyst within the film where she's confronted with a revelation. She realises that their pasts connect in some way. You know, he's a huge reason for the reason why she arrived at the Priory in the first place. And the grace in which she was able to meet that moment, what I was really inspired by, but it also made a lot of sense to me in a sense of how she kind of references alchemy. You know, I felt like there was a, even though this moment causes her a lot of pain and I don't think was necessarily easy to exercise this kind of grace.

51:20I think she understands that it's kind of fundamental within this moment. and I love that because I wasn't sure how I would react in that situation. Do you know what I mean? I was like, wow, this is...

51:34Chris Hewitt:You've got to park yourself your own opinions on things like that. Yeah, of course, of course. And it felt, the magnitude of it, it just felt enormous. But again, like I don't think it was easy, you know, for the prior rest she wasn't kind of born a kind of holy woman. These are teachings that she's taken on. it's something that she's constantly practicing I think she finds inspiration in it I think it also provides a comfort so there is a nuance in there it's not like this kind of easy

52:06choice for me I don't think

52:08Chris Hewitt:and Michael in terms of what you wanted to do with the characters who are enshrined in mythology you had a little bit more leeway I mean you're doing a 180 with the kind of traditional view of Robin Hood in this movie but you had a lot more leeway i'd say with the prioress can you talk about creating that character almost out of whole cloth in a way yeah i mean in a in a i think she was kind of my in to the movie because i you know i knew the death of robin hood legend and i was always fascinated about i was fascinated by the quiet of it by the oh this is the end of this heroic legend but the thing that always i wanted to explore more was okay this idea of spoilers of like a prioress quietly bloodletting someone to death in this bedchamber like what an intimate space that is and what what a odd act that is like like what a quiet gentle intimate way of killing someone but in yeah in the old stories she was always kind of yeah the betraying kind of treacherous nun and i was like no like there has to be more to that relationship between these two characters and i wanted to understand that more so really my in was okay i need to understand the prioress more and um i did a lot of research on like Hildegard von Bingen who was this German prioress from the 13th century that was this kind of polymath who was like a theologian and a composer and and a healer and it became really important to me that it was like no no healing and helping people is this person's identity like she she has sort of created this like matriarchal commune where like she people can come who were cast off by society and she will help them yeah and like that seemed so much more interesting to me to be like like oh no like she's not some evil lady who happens to be a nun and then kills goodly robin like this is someone who like her identity is healing people um and that was really kind of my jumping off point and then it became okay well let's think about robin like maybe he wasn't the goodly hero maybe he was this medieval bandit who led this life of violence and but really like thinking about like okay i want to believe in the prioress and what she's doing so that this act has more meaning and this space between them has more meaning was kind of my like in to the soul of the movie there's a i don't want to get into uh the last third of the movie but as you said there there is bloodletting that is part of what bridget does uh to to hugh jackman's robin in this uh and i am a horror hound i'm a gore fiend and i can watch people being axed in the face until the cows come home but things like bloodletting in this movie i genuinely have to look away are you guys like that at all what was it like being part of those scenes obviously it's all fake you have unless you actually did give up his blood for this movie which is entirely possible.

54:40Chris Hewitt:Very committed. Yeah. Who knows? Maybe it was. I mean, it was I remember when like because we made the practical arm piece. I mean, it looked real. There was definitely a moment. So I was like, this looks so real. It's definitely because you would literally like poke the hole in the arm and then blood and there were moments. Sometimes we would like do the pressure too much. And it was like, oh, yeah. And there were I mean, there was always a moment when you do that on set where you could sort of feel the whole crew just go like, like, it was like, because it was just like a skin you know there was like a piece of kind of skin and the tube was very kind of discreet so he would just offer up his arm you know what i mean there was nothing kind of right obscure in it in any way it like looked very much real um yeah and then of course you're also wanting to get it right because then it's a blood reset so like you're like don't mess this up but you're okay you can take this sort of stuff you don't like you don't have a gag reflex i mean if i get my own blood taken i do look away but no i'm i do the finger pinch i always look away and then pinch my fingers like i can't feel it and it's funny it doesn't even hurt them but there's something about like a needle going into you though which i think is the same with the blood letting that like it's not just like it's i'd rather someone just like cut me than like stick something into my arm like there's something very like like parasitic about that or leeches yeah well bring back leeches is what i say yeah we cut the leech scene everyone's too screaming We haven't used leeches in years.

56:05It's a real, real shame. Leeches actually have some medical grounding. Bloodletting is a little iffy. I don't recommend it. Leeches can do something. It's felt. Go put leeches all over your body. I'm not a health professional.

56:18Chris Hewitt:I guess we'll have to flash something up with a little disclaimer on the screen here. Let's talk about Robin Hood. Who was your Robin Hood, both of you, as a teenager? Jodi, let's start with you. I mean, I have like a loose reference to the Disney Fox. Okay. But again, I wasn't like... You didn't have really Robin Hood. Shrek. I didn't have one. It was Shrek. Or a man in tights. It was, it was steer from the rich, go to the movies, take me to sell the love. Yeah. That is, if I'm being honest, that. Yeah, yeah. But that's not a full exploration. It's more of a cameo. Yeah. So you weren't growing up with, say, Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves on the TV.

56:56Chris Hewitt:No, but I definitely like walked in the living room and my dad's been watching it for the 100th time. You know, on Channel 5. I feel like that's a solid Channel 5 film. But yeah. It certainly is. It is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With Costner's incredible accent. Yeah. Because Hugh, unlike other Robin Hoods, talks with an English accent. Yeah. To quote Carrie Allwes. We went for like a Northern English accent. For kind of everyone, we sort of nudged it all Northern. And mine was Disney and Costner. That was like, I loved. I mean, the Fox was like mine. that was my favorite disney movie growing up and then costner i had like all the toys i had they had like a treehouse set that you could get were toys yeah yeah robin hood prince of things yeah are you kidding me i had a bunch of them they had like a treehouse set where like it had a little like pulley and you could like it had a little like tree elevator and you could like put the like i loved it my mom got rid of him i think which bums me out i would still play with them did you have like little action figures like a little christmas later action figure little morgan freeman action figure i don't know if i had like i think i had i think i had morgan freeman Costner I mean this was a long time ago but yeah I had quite a few of them Are you disappointed there's not the death of Robin Hood action figure in place There's still time Precisely, real bloodletting It would be amazing I want to see the ad for that with kids just getting like straight up Mom it's really coming out a long time Yeah I love that, I love the fact that your Robin Hood's growing up are as far removed from this movie as you could possibly get.

58:28Chris Hewitt:Like the fan diagram of Disney Robin Hood and Kevin Costner Robin Hood doesn't come close to Hugh in this movie. We did a crew screening of the Disney Robin Hood, though. In prep, we did like these sort of weekly screenings where each department would like choose a movie. And my first one was the Disney Robin Hood and we watched it all together. That's such a cool thing to do. Yeah, it was really fun. It was cool. And then like Pat, which Pat chose like There Will Be Blood. David chose Come and See. Like everyone sort of chose a thing that they wanted to express something. But I sort of just wanted to be like, hey, let's have fun with this.

58:57It was weird. We were watching the Disney one. It holds up. It's so good. It's so odd. It's such a lovely film. But then there were there's a moment where he's fighting with a torch. And I was like, I guess I stole the torch thing from. Yeah,

59:11Chris Hewitt:I don't remember the Disney Robin Hood shoving a torch. Yeah, they know they cut that part out. Yeah, that was that was cut at the end. And I enjoyed you talking about the accents. you know you have this incredible proclivity for accents can you talk about Bridges accent were you tempted to go Northern Irish at any point I wouldn't dare, man. I'd need a lot more time and prep on homework on the Northern Irish. Northern Irish is hard. Do you know what was lovely? I kind of felt at home within Bridget with the accent that I had. Like we said, we were kind of going for a generic Northern, but we worked with Brendan particularly on vowel sounds.

59:56That was kind of the main kind of shift within the dialect. but it was nice it was nice to kind of sit in that and it's also for me as a really I associate it with home and warmth and that was kind of very a part of her essence so it was just like I don't know it just kind of felt like a perfect fit for me

1:00:21Chris Hewitt:it's nice not tempted to go to American like Kevin Costner he only goes American after like 10 minutes into the movie he's like trying at first and then he's just like nah the Robin Hood action figure you pull the string he goes I am Robin Hood yeah anyway on that note Michael Jodie it's been a pleasure thanks so much thank you thank you okay that was Michael Sarnowski and Jodie Comer talking about the death of Robin Hood and that is what we're going to be doing now because it is reviews section of the show Alex Godfrey yeah tell us about the death of Robin Hood no spoilers please it was very very sad it is a very very very sad film it's because it's directed by Michael Sarnowski who makes very very sad films he is such a nice guy in person like he's he's funny and kind and personable in my limited experience of course and then you see his films it's like dude what the fuck is wrong with you but please continue what you say he's very very kind his films are very very kind so Pig I think was his debut film it was yes you know about a man played by Nicolas Cage grieving is he grieving

1:01:27Alex Godfrey:over the death of Trouble He's trying to find one. He's trying to find one. He's been taken. It's John Witt with a pig, but he's trying to find it, not offend you. Anyway, it's a beautiful meditation on grief, Pig. And then he did Quiet Place Day One. Correct. Which was not about grief, but it was, well, it's about grief in society, I guess. And it's about loss. And Lupita Nyong 'o's character is dying. Yes. So he has this thing. Has a lot of heart. Death and grief and loss and regret and people dealing with trauma and sizing things up and wouldn't you know it, this film is not a departure from that.

1:02:05It's really taking Robin Hood as a jumping off point as like the legacy of the character and an old Robin Hood played by Hugh Jackman sizing up his legacy and basically sort of disgusted with himself and what he's done. So this is set in the 1200s. Hugh Jackman plays him as, you know,

1:02:26Alex Godfrey:a much older than he is in real life, very gruff, very sad, very regretful. He's exiled himself. He doesn't want anything to do with his legend, his legacy. And that's the great thing about Robin Hood, you know. He's a folktale, he's a folk hero, and it's all about this legacy and the legend of, and this is a guy who wants nothing to do with that. And he's like, I don't like what I've done. I don't like what it's done to me. I don't like what I've done to other people. And I'm just going to be on my own. He gets into a big, horrible, horrible fight, ends up getting very, very injured and ends up at a priory where he is found by Jodie Comer's sister, Brigid, who is just like a Florence Nightingale character and wants to help him and nurse him.

1:03:12Well, sort of not back to life because he basically, he is dying. That's not a spoiler, right? The death of Robin Hood is a very protracted physical downfall and she's there to help him. Almost like a hospice sort of environment. And that's basically the film. There are flashbacks and Bill Skarsgård pops up, his little John, who's also sort of in hiding, has taken someone else's name. And it's really, it's this beautiful little portrait of a man trying to live with what he's done as he's dying. It's sort of been maligned, I think, because, James, I can already feel you on the side of the maligners.

1:03:58Sharped in his arrows. It's not had great reviews. I think we gave it a three. I liked it quite a bit more than that. And look, it is a glacial film. It is a slow, quiet film, but it's like a little tone poem. And if you want a character portrait of very mature subject matter, I think Michael Sarnowski delivers that amazingly. I was really captivated for it by it. I thought it was absolutely beautiful. It is soulful. It's poetic. Like I say, it's very restrained. It is a meditation on all those themes that Michael Sarnowski is preoccupied with. And it's quiet. And it's slow. But I don't think slow, if it's engrossing, is necessarily a bad thing.

1:04:42You know, there is great slow cinema. Some of it legendary. I would say is when this film isn't slow like the fight I mentioned it is fucking grubby and grimy and nasty and so violent it's two old men who can barely move let alone fight just wrestling around in the mud just stabbing each other like there's no choreography involved it's just horrible you really there was probably some choreography yeah I know it doesn't feel that way it doesn't feel yeah

1:05:13it's a very tactile film on every level and I thought it was really pretty in terms of how it explores its themes. It's really sensitive, it's really compassionate and I was really on board with it and I was really touched by it and I can see why people wouldn't be on board with it but I loved what it was doing. I think it takes a little while to get used to the pacing. For me, it took me a little bit of time to kind of ease into it and kind of get what it was trying to do but it is about regret and retribution and maybe possibly redemption of some sort. And I think the way that it deconstructs the legend was really smart and really interesting.

1:05:52And Hugh Jackman looking like Gandalf kind of worked for me. I thought that was actually kind of an interesting look and something we haven't seen from him before and really kind of just trying to play with something completely different. Did not recognize Bill Skarsgård. I was like, that guy is faintly familiar. He's a bit of a career out of being unrecognizable. I saw him in two films on this day and I didn't recognize him in this.

1:06:15Chris Hewitt:Bill Skarsgård? Yeah, until... I didn't know he was in the film. Yeah. And because, you know, the credits only come up at the end. It took me 10, 5, 10 minutes. It took me so long. I think it was just before the end of his scenes. I think he's fascinating, Bill Skarsgård. He's really, really fascinating. He's a chameleon. Like, you don't know what he can... He can do anything. yeah he's just tall drink of water he's got model good looks but he can hide them brilliantly he's chameleonic with that accent of his he can do any accent apparently seemingly yeah he's terrific I'd watch him as Bond anyway I but no I I thought this was really good and Northern Ireland looks gorgeous in it I've got to say and also bleak and horrifying and terrifying and desolate yes yes okay yeah as things were in the 13th century it's a film of two halves and deliberately so the first half is grubby and grimy and bleak and horrible and filled with blood and mud.

1:07:12Chris Hewitt:And the second half of the film is, as you were talking about, it's about redemption and contemplation and compassion. It's spiritual, yeah. And this is a film because it didn't do well at the box office in the States. And I don't know how well it's going to do at the box office this week when it opens in the UK. And it opened in the summer as well. So it's not necessarily going to stick around and be part of the Oscar conversation. It's not a summer movie either. it really what the hell was the scheduling of that anyway it will be forgotten no lot by the Oscars but Jackman is terrific in this so is Jodie Comer so is Jodie Comer but like it is his movie and his final scene is phenomenal phenomenal performance he's great James

1:07:54Alex Godfrey:I cannot disagree with anything you're saying in to the extent that it is all of those things like it's it's meditative and it's thoughtful and it's it's melancholy and it's it's a really interesting idea to take, you know, what if Robin Hood had been a murdering sociopath and not a folk hero? Like, that's an interesting idea. What if he was consumed with regret over his sins? And it's a man at the end of his life looking back on what made him a man and falling up, coming up short. It's sort of overlaps with Odyssey in that respect. Yeah, and it has a lot of that in it. It's got a bit of Logan in it.

1:08:26Alex Godfrey:It's got a bit of, you know, Unforgiven in it. Like, it has a lot of this, of this kind of, like, weary, kind of gunfighter, soldier, warrior, arrow fighter, whatever you call him, looking back at his life and wondering why. Wondering why he did the things he did. How has he become the person he's become? That's all very interesting. And the performances, as you said, are absolutely top-notch and it's beautifully shot. But it is punishingly dour to the point where it is so bleak and so slow and so downbeat. And there were just parts where I was clawing my own skin off just praying for it to end.

1:09:03Alex Godfrey:like if you're really into you know very abstract slow you know deeply internal stories you know there's stuff here to love there is stuff here to love but it is all the things like it is grubby it is sad it is depressing it is mopey these should all be poster quotes yeah and it just wasn't for me and it just it just felt like it was interminable so I do think the performances are fantastic and the craft of filmmaking there is spot on but I'm just not sure I'd class this as quote unquote entertainment

1:09:33Chris Hewitt:Well, you're wrong. I think it's better than three stars. I think it's a four. But we've officially given it three stars. Three stars then for the death of Robin Hood. And hey, speaking of wrong three-star reviews, it's time for Mayday. Jimbo.

1:09:50Alex Godfrey:Yeah. So this is the new film from Jonathan Goldstein and John Francis Daly, the geniuses behind Game Night and Dungeons & Dragons, Honor Among Thieves. And this is a new comedy. Well, the geniuses behind Game Night and Honor Among Thieves. and this is their new film on Apple. This is a streaming film and it stars Ryan Reynolds as Troy Assassin Kelly and this is set in the 80s and he is a naval aviator in the manner of Pete Maverick Mitchell and we see there's some Top Gun action at the beginning with him landing on a carrier and helping out another pilot who's got a malfunction on his plane. It's not this similar to the beginning of Top Gun which is deliberate and there are Top Gun references all the way through this film but he goes on a special secret spying mission over Cold War, Soviet Union and the Blackbird plane that he's in gets shot down.

1:10:33Alex Godfrey:Fucking love a Blackbird. Love a Blackbird. And he is behind enemy lines and he is, quote unquote, rescued by a Russian, a bearded Russian, played by Kenneth Branagh, Nikolai Yusinov. Branagh is back on his shadow recruit Russian accent. Duh. That's right. But I have to say, I absolutely love it in this because Kenneth Branagh is the MVP of this film. Branagh. Branagh, Kenneth Branagh. essentially the two of them together embark on a buddy comedy 80s style adventure to get him back you know to safety essentially to rescue him

1:11:10Chris Hewitt:2000 miles behind enemy lines

1:11:12Alex Godfrey:exactly that so Nick as he likes to be known Nikolai is a massive fan of sort of Americana and all things USA he loves Springsteen he's obsessed with Top Gun so when like a real Pete Mitchell arrives in his backyard like this is his dream come true yes he's former KGB but let's just cross over that And the two of them go on this kind of road trip. And it's quite plot-light, but it's quite funny. And the action sequences are actually really good. And what's quite interesting is it's really clear that it is Kenneth Branagh doing a lot of this action. He does some really good choreography in it, and he's a lot of fun.

1:11:45Alex Godfrey:He leans into this character. He really embraces the stupidity and the sort of lunacy of that character. And he's loads of fun to be around. And the kind of buddy dynamic between them works very well. I would say Ryan Reynolds is very much doing his trademark comedy shtick that he does in literally every film he's in. On autopilot as well. And genuinely it is that. And I feel like sometimes and look, the quips are fine, his one-liners are okay, but if you find Ryan Reynolds quite grating, this will not change your mind. Like it is very much him being him, doing his thing. But I do think the heart in this between these characters, well, let me finish.

1:12:18Alex Godfrey:Okay. I do think the heart between these characters works very well and I enjoyed that. So all in all, I think as a kind of buddy adventure movie, it's not a film. We don't see a lot of these films. these days. You know, they feel like a relic of the 80s and 90s. It is streaming on Apple. If you have Apple TV +, 100 % watch it. Is it going to set your pants on fire? Probably not. But I had a pretty good time.

1:12:39Chris Hewitt:I... Can I say I now? I... I...

1:12:42Alex Godfrey:You, tell us. I... disagree.

1:12:45Chris Hewitt:I know, you loved this. I know you did. Yes, I did. But I disagree with your assessment of the Ryan Reynolds situation. A pilot on autopilot. I don't think you were watching the film closely enough. Really? Yeah. And what did I miss? What does he do that's heroic in the film? He plays the damsel in distress in this movie. And he is constantly being bailed out. He is effectively useless once he lands behind Rush and Soil. Because he's a pilot. Because he's a pilot. And Nick is the unstoppable one-man army of the movie. And yes, there are a couple of little Ryan Reynolds one-liners here and there.

1:13:17Chris Hewitt:But by and large, he's playing a guy who's scared, who's wounded. This isn't Deadpool. There's a lot more going on under the surface of this character than you might think at first glance. And I think that's true of the film. in general. Maybe I'll give it another go. I did appreciate that they examined a little bit of, like, you know, you think we're evil, but how much do you actually know about us? Kind of Cold War propaganda kind of stuff. And they kind of talk about that a bit and deconstruct some stuff. I appreciate that. But overall, it felt a bit... I think it's so much fun. It's smart.

1:13:47Chris Hewitt:It's inventive. Nick is a character for the ages, as far as I'm concerned. And you're all idiots. Wow. Interesting. it's a laugh it's just like if you're gonna if you're gonna be at home and put on that film with certain expectations I think you will enjoy it in terms of it being a three and a four it doesn't change the world it's not doing anything new or inventive whatsoever but what it does it does really well and I think it's a really entertaining experience make of that what you will alright then three stars incorrect three incorrect stars for Mayday I nearly sent up a distress signal when I heard that had to stop and I go what?

1:14:27Chris Hewitt:what? what? what? that was my death fader but anyway it's on Apple TV so the four of you who have Apple TV subscriptions will be able to see it this weekend and let me know what you think you should actually we'll just meet up we'll meet up at a phone booth all the Apple TV subscribers will meet up at a phone booth and we can discuss what we thought of this movie next up Hells Bells hello have a pick you have so many films to talk about so many you can choose whatever it is you want to talk about, as long as it's one of those three films. Let's talk first about The Incomer. Ooh. This is a new Scottish comedy film.

1:15:05It's written and directed by Lewis Paxton, and it stars Gail Rankin and Grant O 'Rourke, who is my new favorite, by the way.

1:15:13Chris Hewitt:Oh, right, okay. He's great in this. They are a brother and sister who have grown up on this tiny Scottish island entirely alone, basically since their parents died sort of 30 years ago and left them as children alone on this island. And they are resourceful and a bit weird, and they have made it work ever since. But now the council sends Donald Gleeson to basically tell them to bugger off because they're going to turn the island into a bird sanctuary or something. And they have trained all this time to resist incomers to the island and to protect themselves against anyone who might want to hurt them.

1:15:52And so they react rather poorly to this incursion onto their territory as they see it. And that's kind of the setup for this. There's a little bit of, you know, just around the edges we see his life in the council offices where he works, where Michelle Gomez is his boss and obviously as terrifying and scary as she is wont to be in her characters. It's just a weird little film about some weird little people who kind of find their way through a difficult situation, I guess. I really enjoy this. We give it four stars, and I feel like that's about right. This is a fun, weird little British comedy, and it's not quite The Ballad of Wallace Island, but it's in that ballpark, and that's a good ballpark to be in.

1:16:38Chris Hewitt:Like the ballpark in The Naked Gun, that ballpark? Sure. Sure. Let's go with that one. Let's go with that one. I was thinking it's more the ballpark and field of dreams, you know? It's like intimate. Oh, if you build it, they will come. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. So, yeah. So, we gave it four stars. Four stars. It's worth a look. One of those, I didn't really know this film existed until I saw an advert for it the other day. I didn't see any screenings or anything. So, well done, team. But it looks good. Looks good. It is good. Yeah, four stars for the Incomer. Incoming! also incoming is Willem Dafoe in Late Fame yeah so this is the new film from Kent Jones who is a film critic so I hope we all feel like underachievers people because we're not out there making films as well as criticism written by Sammy Birch who also wrote Coyote vs Acme oh wow big couple of weeks for her so this is about Willem Dafoe who plays Ed Saxberger who is a well he works at the post office in and lives in new york and has done for nearly 50 years um but he also in the late 70s published a book of poetry and this book of poetry comes into the hands of an idealistic bunch of young rich uh pretentious pretentious yeah but wannabe wannabe intellectuals um they're well-meaning i think but they're also enthusiastic yeah artsy people Yes, they are.

1:18:12So they're led by Edmund Donovan's mayors. And he is basically all excited about the fact that he has rediscovered this great lost poet and sort of showers Ed with compliments and invites him along to talk to their group. and Ed is both bemused and flattered and kind of freaked out but increasingly tempted to sort of go along and be admired and goes along and talks to their group and meets Greta Lee who is the slightly older actress who is also very much a part of this kind of flamboyant society and they are basically all dressed as great figures of the mid-20th century. You know, they're very much modelling themselves.

1:18:51She dresses like Anna Mae Wong or Marlena Dietrich and that kind of thing. She's very, very theatrical, very performative. You know, you've got the guy who's dressed like Hemingway the whole time. They're all kind of almost in costume as intellectuals. They're kind of unbearable. They kind of are, but there's a sweetness to it in the sense that they are... It's real passionate. They're trying, yeah, they're trying something. They're trying to do something. They're all rich kids who can afford to try this stuff, but they're all, they're trying something. And so I spent quite a lot of this film worried that he was going to disillusion them or they were going to disillusion him but I felt like it was going to go one of those two ways.

1:19:28This relationship didn't feel safe. So that was kind of the, I guess, the dramatic tension in the film for me. Ultimately, I didn't think it had quite enough character meat on the bones. I thought it was an interesting setup and an interesting situation. I thought Willem Dafoe was obviously great. And I liked that there was an interesting sort of thread to the film where he's almost torn between his blue collar friends who he can talk to about most of his life, but not this poetry angle. And then these new friends who can suddenly embrace the side of himself that he's been neglecting for years and years.

1:20:02I thought there was an interesting kind of tension there for him. But beyond that, it just felt like there wasn't quite, and there's no story to this beyond what I've said. There's no story. But it just didn't feel like it kind of got anywhere for me. So I was interested in it, but I was ultimately a little bit disappointed, if I'm honest. Late Fame and Mayday have about the same amount of plot in each one. I think, I mean, at least Mayday has like guns and stuff, though. Like there's no guns in Late Fame. That's where Late Fame went wrong. I liked Late Fame because of what you were just talking about, because of that tension, that push and pull.

1:20:38I think it's a really fascinating thing to explore, which is how Fame, which is what this character sort of had in the 70s and is on the cusp of potentially getting back here because they spend the whole film trying to encourage him to perform at a little poetry night. And he doesn't really want to. And they keep coaxing him into it. And I won't say where that goes. But he still is enjoying the embrace of these people who value what he did, which is something he's basically compartmentalized and put on the shelf for decades and decades. And it explores how fame, push, but certainly adulation and praise can distort us a bit, potentially corrupt us, but at least give us a twisted or skewed sense of ourselves and how it can cause us to maybe lose perspective on things, which I think is a really interesting thing to explore.

1:21:33And that is all that this film does. But what I like about that, above and beyond that, is that it does it without using a sledgehammer. It does it without being heavy-handed. It's a very tender, poetic, quiet little film. And it is quiet, and it is very slight. But I thought it was quite lovely. And I loved watching Defoe sort of internally grapple with that situation. And that's sort of all the film is. But I love watching him and I loved him doing that.

1:22:01Chris Hewitt:You interviewed him for the podcast, going out this week's interviews? Yes. How was he? He's a very thoughtful, soul-searching, tender human being who takes these things very seriously. It was really interesting, actually. One of the things he talked about was there was a meta thing going on on set because the actors who played this group of kids who are in awe of him as an old poet, on set, they were doing the same to Willem Dafoe as an actor and asking him what it was like and all the stories from the 80s and beyond. And he said life was mirroring art in that respect. And I think the film meant a lot to him.

1:22:41I think it actually adapted from a Schnitzel story, as was Eyes Wide Shut. But I actually thought it was completely character-driven and not plot-driven at all. I like the fact that there were no stupid plot things going on. I think it was just exploring something thematic. I thought it did it nicely.

1:23:00Chris Hewitt:There we go. So four stars in for late fame. Helen's in the three-star camp. Alex, you were in the... I'm for it. I think it was quality work for what it was doing. But it's a slight film. All right. Last but not least this week, we have Gail Daughtry and the celebrity sex pass hell's bells I love this movie yeah this is the story of the aforementioned Gail Daughtry who's played by Zoe Deutsch who I don't know if you know this she has levels of charisma that you can actually see from space do you know the thing I didn't know about Zoe Deutsch until recently did you not know whose daughter she is I did not know whose daughter she was she is the daughter of Howard Deutsch the director of Pretty in Pink but also Leia Thompson and once you see Once you know that, you get it.

1:23:46Chris Hewitt:Wow. Yeah, I did know that. But anyway, she is the aforementioned Gail in this movie. She is engaged to her childhood sweetheart. All is well in her life. She is working as a hairdresser with her best friend, Otto. And she just couldn't be happier with life. Everything is wonderful. Until one day when she's been having a jokey conversation with her fiancé about the idea of this celebrity sex pass. that you can, there's one person in the world who you can, you know, you can, consequences free, have sex with. Miss Piggy. There you go. There would be consequences. Wow, what you said. Anyway, just, let's not get into it.

1:24:26So, this is all fine until he actually acts on this. He gets the opportunity and he acts on his sex pass and this throws her for a loop. They're due to get married in just a couple of weeks.

1:24:39Chris Hewitt:Yeah. should she still marry him? Is the relationship on? Is it off? In theory, this is fine. He thought it was fine because he's got his sex pass, right? It's fine. Yeah, it's fine. Was it laminated? But is it though? It's not laminated. No, it wasn't laminated. It was only verbal and a verbal contract is not worth the paper it's written on. So anyway, so it ends up with her going to LA with her bestie, Otto, and recruiting a ragtag bunch of helpers in an effort to secure her own sex pass target Jon Hamm. Yes. And that is the film. There are, I am not mentioning really any of the celebrity cameos here because they're so delightful and you should discover them on your own.

1:25:22Chris Hewitt:Yes. I think it's wonderful. I really, really, really enjoyed it. Which one? Do you want to, Jon Slattery? Jon Slattery, yeah. Yes. Spoiler alert. Yeah, if you're going to try and find Jon Hamm and you do find Jon Slattery, you've got to think maybe Jon Slattery, another star of Mad Men, can get me to Jon Hamm. So you latch on maybe to him. So he is one of the ragtag bunch who help her. And he plays himself as an idiot. He does. And I'm still laughing. And a coward. I saw this movie about two months ago and I'm still laughing at a Jon Slattery-based sequence, which I think is one of the funniest things I've seen in ages.

1:26:02Chris Hewitt:Yeah, this is... David Wayne's a really, really fascinating director. and he wrote this with Ken Marino who's also in the film and they did Wet Hot American Summer and David Wayne directed things like Role Models and Wanderlust with Paul Rudd and Jennifer Aniston and he's a really fascinating guy because he embraces I think all forms of comedy as a director and they're all in this movie and that's maybe the one thing I think that drags the movie down a little bit I think this is the funniest film I've seen this year by a country mile. I laughed so hard at this. I paid to see it. I went to see it with Jaime Blanco, James White, when I was in LA at the beginning of July.

1:26:45Chris Hewitt:And it was half full in LA. It's a great LA movie as well. I was not prepared for how funny I was going to find this movie. I was on the floor laughing. I think it's, to slight detriment, is that it tries everything. It throws everything at the wall and not all of it sticks. I agree. I think especially early on, there's some bits which just feel like they weren't quite sure of the tone. They were still trying to almost figure it out. But when it gets going, it really gets going. It's so delightful. I cannot even express how delightful it is. But it is a particular form of very silly humor. People in this room who do not enjoy humor would not enjoy this film.

1:27:30James, I don't know if you're aware of this,

1:27:32Chris Hewitt:but throughout this review of this film that you haven't seen you look like you want to kill everyone do you know what it's funny you say that but actually I was thinking I quite want to see it honestly this is the Mad Men sequel I think has been missing from your life because John Slattery is amazing in this film so good in this film and listen I'm not going to spoil whether John Hamm turns up but if he does I'm sure he would be a delight also playing against type now John Hamm is a man who would have Miss Piggy on his sex pass he probably has I'm sure she has him on her sex pass or maybe not because of the name maybe not Ken Marino is very funny Ben Wong is very very funny as well as a kind of would-be agent that they stumble upon one of the great things about this film is that it's a kind of remake of The Wizard of Oz yes and so Otto is an anagram of Toto and you know and each of the three people that she recruits into her gang need courage a brain and a heart as well and there's wild outbreaks of comedic violence which sometimes work, sometimes don't but Joe LaTrulio is fantastic in this as a kind of mob henchman who is on their trail and he's utterly incompetent and one of my favourite moments I don't want to spoil too much about this movie but there's an amazing moment where it was shot very, very quickly on a low budget and so they go to the Man's Chinese Theatre to try and look for Gail Daughtry and they clearly just told the actors to go out to Man's Chinese Theatre and walk around and mill around and interact with real people.

1:29:04Chris Hewitt:And they left this brilliant moment in where a woman recognizes him from Brooklyn Nine-Nine and goes, oh, Charles Boyle. And he goes, I get that a lot. He walks off. So I had a delightful time with this. And I'm writing the review. Are you okay? I don't know what came over me. No. John needed a review and I went, have you got a review? And he went, no. And I went, I'll write the review. And before I could do anything, I couldn't retract it. I'd said it was in the text. Oh my God. So now I've got to write the review. I don't know how long it's going to be. I assume just five words? No, a bit more, Chris.

1:29:40Chris Hewitt:A bit more. Oh, Gail Daugherty and the celebrity sex pass. That's seven words. Yeah. Is good. Okay, well, a few more. That's your theme. Now elaborate. Don't forget the stars. Oh yes. Well, there's loads of stars. There's Zoe Deutsch. There's Camerino. There's Ben Wong. There's John Slattery. maybe Jon Hamm don't want to spoil it anyway four stars that's what I'm giving it four stars and if I had my way no I wouldn't give a five but it's a cracking film anyway go and see it Gail Daugherty and the Celebrity Sex Pass I'm so glad it's getting a UK release date so go and see it so that more madcap deranged films like this will be made in the future but anyway on that note that is it for this week's Empire Podcast join us next week for more film related fun because the live show we're doing at King's Place is not going to be released as a podcast that is there for the people in the room.

1:30:31Chris Hewitt:Bits from it may turn up on podcasts down the line but we shall see what happens with that. But we will be joined by two ruddy legends. Not just James and Helen but Stockard Channing and Diane Wiest who are the stars of course of Practical Magic 2. I think there are other stars in that film but they mean nothing to me. This is all about Stockard Channing and Diane Wiest. Very, very quickly, who is your celebrity sex pass? Patrick Stewart. Did I answer that too quickly? You answered it a little too quickly. Make it so. By Helen Onthry, Timothy Olyphant. I was going to say Dean Winchester. Really?

1:31:15Yeah, not Jensen Eichel's Dean Winchester. No, it doesn't count. Celebrity sex pass. That's my answer.

1:31:20Chris Hewitt:He's not a celebrity. Dean Winchester is not a celebrity. Technically, he kind of is because in world, he's the star of a series about. Anyway. All right. Alex, who's your celebrity sex pass? Mr. Snuffleupagus. The things he does with that trunk. Oh, Big Bird. Warm and woolly. That's what he calls Alex. Oh, my word. What? Big Bird. I heard. On that Abbott Costello-like routine, I think that's a note on which to end this week's Empire Podcast thanks to Zipper for listening and it all remains now so say goodbye to my three colleagues of such lethal cunning goodbye James Dyer goodbye Chris Hewitt goodbye Alex Godfrey bye goodbye to Helena Hara toodaloo and it's goodbye from me I'm off to go see my celebrity sex pass and on the way maybe I will apologise to her husband for getting in the way of their long long and wonderful marriage sorry Kermit but you had to go thanks for listening see you next time bye bye Bye.