Scream 7: The Team Empire Take

26:08Chris Hewitt:Yeah, but Chris, Anna Camp's done Pilates. She mentions about eight times that she's done Pilates, you know? Yeah, that is very true, I guess. But that sequence, I'll be honest, that sequence also, I felt this was one of the few screams, maybe even the only scream, as much as I don't particularly get on board with Scream 5, I do recognize that it was doing really interesting things, and especially I don't like what it did with my boy Dewey, but that's something I've ranted about at length elsewhere. But it was doing interesting things, and I don't think at any point that either the characters were acting like idiots or it was taking the audience for a ride and it was and I think the Scream 7 was doing that that whole sequence in the diner the restaurant just I was I was squirming in my seat going Celeste O 'Connor's Chloe goes into the kitchen she's confronted by Ghostface as far as she knows and in fact it is the case Mindy and Chad are literally 10 feet away.

27:11Chris Hewitt:At no point does she go, ah, there's a ghost face in here. Instead, she immediately tries to do a bit of hide and seek with him. Just call for backup immediately. Three people taking on a ghost face. Again, something we haven't really seen. It could have been quite interesting. And again, I think it shows Kevin Williamson's limitations as director because one of the things that Wes Craven was brilliant at was establishing a sense of space and geography. Whether it was Drew Barrymore, whether it was Stu's house, whether it was a scene that takes place in a car or, you know, he was amazing at kind of establishing where people were in relation to each other and where Ghostface could be and could pop out.

27:43And that pizza, whatever it was, pub, bar sequence. What is that place? A bar, pizza joint? Tavern, should we say a tavern? Tavern, yeah. That whole sequence felt very messy, didn't it? You know, the twins kind of wandering about trying to find a door and then presumably Chloe was only about six feet away in the kitchen. Like you say, everything was... And you suddenly need a key to get out of a door like that? like it just didn't feel real and then the boy the true crime boy kind of going I'll protect you and stumbling through the doors and then stumbling out having been stabbed which I thought was okay deliberately making him look maybe suspicious was that fake definitely yeah that was a sort of fake but then five minutes later it's revealed that wasn't that was just so it was all yeah something about that felt almost like they had to sort of fudge it in the edit a little bit like it felt clunky

28:28Chris Hewitt:and it feels like maybe people's ears stop working once you know because yeah the classic thing where if I'm in a room and someone goes through some swing doors, soundproof. As you well know, swing doors are soundproof and I can't hear any of the fighting or the screaming or the banging. And I think the loos were probably that way as well, but we have no sense of where they were. So just, again, the geography, you're right, was not clear at all. It's shapeless and sloppy. And it's a shame. And I think the important thing about this is, you know, these are arguments that can be put against a lot of horror movies that are nonsensical and people are making stupid decisions and the audience is picking them apart and getting angry and frustrated by it.

29:13Especially a seventh entry in a franchise. Yeah, but this is my point. Not the Scream films. The Screams have always faced that head on. In the first film, Sidney Prescott says, girls are always running up the stairs when they should be going out the front door. This is a franchise that has, from almost the first speech that our final girl says include up yeah yeah you know and now we're sitting here at number seven where we had been i think led to believe that with um kevin williamson back with nev campbell back at the center of it all these legacy characters that we were sort of being brought back to the purity almost of that first film and i think it's missed a huge opportunity to really go back to what scream was and actually the irony is it feels maybe the least like scream was and i think that that's the issue for me it is a bit of a problem because i feel like you know teens nowadays are actually pretty clued up yeah you know they should be hip they should be wise to this stuff you know uh we're told that tatum has basically seen all the stab movies read all the books her beef is that she hasn't been told any of this stuff firsthand by her own mother but she knows it all um and she does have gumption we realized during the film so why are she and her friends basically being so fucking clueless like it doesn't make any sense i just thought that there was it was sloppy is probably the word like the you know how many mentions of oh you weren't there in New York are there like how many do we need we need one too much we need one maximum really weird that is it it felt a bit almost a bit mean actually that stuff I don't know like the kind of like absolute kind of dismissal of Scream 6 as a movie throughout as well which is a film I really like I mean you know

31:12Chris Hewitt:I think it's one of the strongest entries in the franchise that's interesting yeah because I think for a lot of fans it is people's least favourite and I think it feels like it's directly kind of slightly pandering to that almost you know interesting I think it's got some really really strong suspense sequences I do it's a really fun slasher it's got great set pieces but it's very badly written around that it's pap speaking of bad choices leaving the panic room I mean well that's true they could have just stayed in there they could have just stayed in the panic no I get it it's meant to be like oh but Sydney's a survivor well they had to go and get the husband.

31:48Did they have to go and get the husband? No, of course they didn't. He's a cop. The husband is a cop. Like, he's supposed to be a... And isn't there a phone in the panic room? Wouldn't you have a phone in your scream panic room? I would. Good point. Unlisted number, but I definitely have a phone in there. It's just bad place work. I would argue I absolutely wouldn't have a phone in my scream panic room because it would immediately start ringing and go space and it would freak me out. What's he going to do? He's just going to ask you trivia questions. That's true. Yeah, exactly. Actually, my favourite thing.

32:14I'd be delighted. Yeah. Quiz me.

32:17Chris Hewitt:Were you actually caught out by the trick question about Friday the 13th or did you get it? I'm sorry, even I wasn't caught out by the trick question about Friday the 13th. Well, yeah, but we established a couple of weeks ago on the main pod, Hells, that you are the world's hugest Friday the 13th fan. You love it. You love it so much. I was just delighted that there was a whole conversation about the Friday the 13th timeline, which, Becky, we've talked about at length on Evolution of Horror and how the timeline makes no sense in Friday the 13th. It's almost like they didn't give a shit and we're making it up as he went along.

32:47Yeah, yeah. So I was delighted. I love Jimmy Tatro generally. I think if you haven't seen him in, was it Theatre Camp? Like, he's amazing there. But he is brilliant at playing this kind of idiot. Like, I love him as an idiot. I'm sure he's a very smart man in real life. But he's such good screen idiot. The bit where he is lying down in the, like, chalk body outline taking selfies. And he's going, I was howling. he is great I liked the fake phone call with the quiz as well and the voice on the other side of the line going bleh all of that like that opening scene was really fun I loved it and also like genuinely scary yes yes it was there's a couple of moments in this film but I thought the most effective one was in this opening screen in opening screen opening scene where Ghostface's face will just appear kind of out of the darkness very Michael Myers And that very Michael Mars and then just kind of recede again and you don't see anything else apart from obviously that completely iconic and I think very scary Mars.

33:51Yeah. So that was all really well played and I thought the stuff with the kind of animatronic ghost face stood in the room. And obviously you know but you don't know when it's going to switch. It is really creepy when it moves in a human way. Like it turns its head but not in the way we've seen it do previously. And those moments have really pitched really well. And actually again like fair play to Kevin Williamson as a director in this sequence the ghost face just in the background the whole time when they're in the kitchen you can't keep your eyes off it like that stuff was really well done

34:24Chris Hewitt:an endless array of dark rooms and someone has to turn on the lights yeah really lovely really solid stuff I genuinely think it's one of the best opening sequences and it culminates with the girl falling sort of down off of the sort of mezzanine she's been hanging on for dear life on the chandelier and she's got her sort of feet hooked. And then obviously she goes and Ghostface is, you think that, you know, he's out cold and just rolls and like puts the knife up so she falls onto it. And I honestly, I like... You jumped out of your seat. I jumped, I yelled and then it was like, scream seven. I was like, yeah, we're in, you know.

35:05Chris Hewitt:Let's fucking go. Let's fucking go. I was really, really into it. And then it just shat the bed at the end. I tell you what though go back to some positive like I I liked the theatre sequence I thought that was really fun that was fun you know and actually for me I could have done with getting to know those kids yes I thought they were quite fun and interesting and quite sweet too and like none of them make an impact the way that you know any of the characters in the first one the original Tatum Randy Stu exactly and actually I was even thinking of Scream 4 and Hayden Panettiere and Rory Culkin and they were good, those kids as well.

35:45I think it's really unfair because you have really good actors in there. People like Celeste O 'Connor, people like McKenna Grace. I mean, those are really, really good, good actors and you just kind of throw them away on nothing. And I mean, I just worry, I guess. I've railed for years against the fact of sort of the boomers basically not being able to let go of anything and just recycling all their own content that makes them feel young and now I'm a bit like, Like, oh no, is Gen X doing the same thing? Are we continuing to focus on Sydney when maybe we should be looking at the next generation?

36:18And I get that we've just had two films focused on the next generation with Sydney, either not there or in support. And they're trying to kind of do something new. Why was she not in New York?

36:28Chris Hewitt:They didn't mention it. But I do think there could have been more of a balance and a bit more attention given to those kids this time. It was a bit overtly, wasn't it? You know, like, fuck five and six. We're bringing it back to it. it's a bit Rise of Skywalker after The Last Jedi. if you are saying fuck five and six, just leave Mindy and Chad out. Yeah. Exactly. Especially since Mindy and Chad in this movie do fuck all and didn't even feel like Mindy and Chad. They felt like they were two completely new characters who had just wandered into the movie. I mean, it is literally a moment for me that I sort of went, like, the wallop of the van into killing the first of the three ghost faces.

37:01It's a great intro. Great. Well, it kind of is, but also, that is the moment when the whole film changed. Yeah. I think up until that point, those set pieces we've been talking about that have been really interesting, the theater kids, the creeping around the house, all of that stuff works really well. And then the moment that Gail and the twins arrive, it becomes very goofy and quippy. And for me, that is the moment when I was like, oh, I could have done without this.

37:23Chris Hewitt:My thing is, I don't think they needed to be Mindy and Chad. I think they would have been better served by probably not being in this movie because they don't really affect the outcome in any way, shape or form. And they're too well liked to be killed, I think at this point. although I didn't stop with my boy Jimmy but I really liked that moment I think on our Scream 6 Sparta special I was saying it would be really great you know for them to do things with this franchise that are completely unexpected and one of those things would be to kill a ghost face halfway through and they do that this time around and I was like well that's cool at that point I was very into that I was like okay this is unexpected it was good but then the unmasking needs to mean something yes like I said this again just to repeat myself from the last two spoiler specials but on scream five uh the death of dewey for example in the hospital corridor when he when he gets killed by the ghost face so i can't remember which one it is but either jack quaid or mikey madison is in the elevator watching the other one it's jack quaid because i think jack quaid in the elevator mikey madison that kills dewey yeah impressive upper body strength yeah mikey madison uh so jack quaid's in the elevator and what would have been interesting is to watch him watch his girlfriend die and go oh fuck I need to seriously improvise my way out of this situation that would be interesting if we were tied to a ghost face POV in one of these movies I think that would be interesting and Scream 6 toyed with that just at the beginning when it does that fake out with Samara Weaving and then you watch Tony Revolori and then he goes then he gets killed that would have been interesting but also the idea of killing a ghost face halfway through.

39:03Chris Hewitt:But the reveal of the ghost face, therefore, needs to mean something to someone and we need to see someone scramble. Yeah, if it had thrown suspicion on someone or, you know, cleared suspicion away from someone, then we're into something interesting. Yeah. But here it just meant nothing. Oh, it's Carl from the coffee shop. Carl from the coffee shop, who you only know his name because they write it on a cup and sort of thrust it at the camera. It's a bit of Roy the paramedic. in Friday the 13th portfolio. It is so Roy the paramedic when the mask comes off and you go, who the fuck is that? And they go, And the character has to say it and throw it back.

39:42Oh, it's the paramedic that we met earlier. And you go, oh, okay.

39:48Chris Hewitt:It's blessed Mike. Yeah. No one ever thought I'd be the killer, but here I am. Can't get any life, my old mister, but I can deprive others of their life an agency on this planet.

40:04It does, I mean, that's the thing about all, because how many killers have we got all together? Three? Three. Three ghost faces in this one. And none of them are particularly like, oh my God, moments of reveals. None of them. Are they, you know? And it really does make you realize how brilliant that Billy and Stu reveal was in part one. It's just never been matched, really, in any of the other movies. I agree. I agree. I think the only one

40:26Chris Hewitt:that comes close is the reveal in Scream 4. Emma Roberts, yeah. Yeah, the Emma Roberts, but also because it's one of the lesser Culkins who stabs, I think it's Steve Culkin, who stabs Kirby, right? Just out of nowhere, and she's untied him, and then suddenly he stabs her. That's a great reveal. It's a real jump scare reveal. It's brilliant. And the Emma Roberts, almost in a weird way, like we talk about how Mindy and Chad don't need to be in this movie, but in a weird way, someone as redoubtable as Kirby might have been good to come back and be a bit smarter about things. Because they seem rather blasé, Chad and Mindy, for people who've been through two ghost faces.

41:09Chris Hewitt:Exactly, exactly. They're just, what, they've signed on as Gale's... Intern, hot intern. They call themselves hot intern. Why would they do that? And the whole thing with, you know, at the end with the comedy blooper reel almost where Mindy's trying to make a report and she keeps getting her name wrong. I was just like, this is a different movie. It's quite old-fashioned, isn't it? The idea that everybody also would be watching TV and that would be your path. Wouldn't they be trying to be influencers or something? Wouldn't they be trying to start their own... And again, wouldn't screen characters be saying that?

41:45Wouldn't they be going, TV is passe, it's all about content now. There would be some line like that in other screen films. She would have her own following online. She would be doing it for the Gram. She would be doing it for TikTok. Yeah. Of course she was, because she's savvy. Yeah. And she's been sacked from her talk show. And so it just feels very Gail to pivot. Why would you sack Gail Weathers?

42:08Chris Hewitt:She's been like literally attacked by a masked killer six times. I think that's, you know, plausible given like sexism and ageism in media. Yeah, true. But she has always been so driven and so savvy. She would 100 % have like a major TikTok, Instagram reel. She would have pivoted and she would be getting Mindy and Chad to sort of teach her in the ways of that. But instead, they've joined her as interns to become TV reporters? Nah. Weird. I mean, we should obviously say and acknowledge that this movie started off in a very, very different form. You know, Radio Silence left and they brought Christopher Landon in to direct what I'm guessing was a very different idea.

42:56Chris Hewitt:I don't know how far than the line they got with screenplays it was they spent 500 grand on rewrites after Christopher Landon and Melissa Barrera and General Ortega all left the project on fire slash were you know some left of their own volition others were forcibly removed from the franchise utter nonsense and I can't help but look at this movie and think what could have been Christopher Landon is a really good horror director he really knows his way around suspense sequences and inventive kills you just need to look at something like the Happy Death Day movies or Freaky for evidence of that maybe not we have a ghost no but he's very slasher literate and he loves his franchise obviously Kevin Williamson also loves his franchise but Christopher Landon really loves his franchise and I really like the Melissa Barrera Jenna Ortega dynamic as the Carpenter sisters and I just I don't know I just feel like we've lost we've lost something here and for what and for why and clearly they've scrambled to get a Scream 7 out and I don't know how big a part Sidney was meant to play in that original screenplay maybe she wasn't even in it I don't know and I'm glad I should say this for the for the foighters if any doubt that I'm glad that they ponied up and paid Neve Campbell what she's worth because that was the big problem on Scream 6.

44:25Chris Hewitt:She's fucking Neve Campbell. She's Sidney fucking Prescott and show her respect and pay her what she's worth. But I just think in the chaos that surrounded the making of this movie, they just haven't been able to hit upon a really stellar idea and a really stellar screenplay. All the stuff that I actually think probably works best is the stuff that I think Kevin Williamson came in and rewrote, which is interesting. That is interesting. So what do we make of things like the overall motive of the killer we've said already that we felt the unmasking was a bit disappointing because it doesn't really mean anything to anyone who these people are but what do we make of the first of all the motive but also the lesser killings the killings that don't seem to be connected to anything in most Scream movies there's always felt like there's a strong motive for people being killed when they're killed but it feels like people are just dying randomly here I think this has changed from Scream 5 though I think this is what a lot of people complained about, the Radio Silence movies.

45:25You know, in Scream 6, it's just like man number two in the bodega gets shot in the head. Like there's a lot of just random like fodder in the newer movies. But yeah, there is a lot of that in this movie, I suppose, isn't there? But again, I think it's all so murky because we don't really know why the killers are doing what they're doing. Even having seen it, I'm still not sure why the killers are doing what they're doing. You've seen it twice as well. I've seen it twice and I'm even less clear after the second viewing. Helen, as a lawyer, what have you got? so this is not that they definitely have mens rea okay so you know as well as actus rea they are 100 % murderers not manslaughter murderers murder murder murder yeah it doesn't make very much sense so Anna Kemp had an abusive spouse and she read Sydney's book and it inspired her and then she got angry with Sydney because of reasons because she didn't go to New York I don't know if we've mentioned that yeah She wasn't in New York.

46:20Are we clear that Nev wasn't in New York?

46:22Chris Hewitt:Was it Nev Campbell's agent who was the killer? I missed out on my 10%, goddammit! And then Ethan Embry was just like, thought that was cool? Yeah. She went to the asylum that he was in, but they didn't establish that really at any point. No, just like in passing. If they'd left some crumbs lying around, maybe we could have done it. Although the second Ethan Embry turned up, I was like, okay, he's involved in some way. In something. And it kind of has to be, doesn't it? The fact that he talks about Stu being alive and as part of the... Yeah. In this hospital, you go, okay, so whether that's true and Matthew Lillard is actually playing a living Stu in this movie or he must be lying.

47:01He must be the killer and it's one or the other. Either he's lying or he's in league with Matthew Lillard. Yeah, exactly. There's two options at that point. But why is Ethan Embry in league with Anna Camp?

47:12Chris Hewitt:He loves her or something? She is very pretty. She is very pretty. So Ethan Embry, Anna Camp, and Carl the coffee guy. Yeah. The three of them met in this psychiatric hospital. Yes. And all decided... Anna Camp, the ringleader, I'm guessing. I guess. Sydney Prescott was my hero. And then she didn't go to New York. I got abs of steel. She's the reason I killed my husband and did Pilates. Yeah. I guess... But then she went missing, and I'm furious about it. And so now I'm going to kill her. And Ethan Embry's like, by the way, I'm a computer nerd and know AI really well. Uh-huh. Let's. Which you don't need to either.

47:50I mean, that's the thing. None of it makes any sense.

47:54Chris Hewitt:So hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. So Anna Camp goes to this, is it Fulcroft, Fulbrook, something like that? Fulbrook? Fulbrook, yeah. Fulbrook, that rings a bell. She goes to this asylum. She's committed for a little while. Now, is this before or after she's friends with Sydney? It has to be before, right? Because if it's after, then Sydney would go, hang on a second. Weren't you institutionalized? Yes. I know someone who was institutionalized here for a couple of years. So then they've all met together. They've all got together in this institution. And she's gone, I hate Sidney Prescott.

48:34Chris Hewitt:By the way, she owns a coffee shop in my town, which is just a couple of miles from here. When I get out, I'm going to befriend her and then you make an AI Schumacher. At what point? This is the work of madmen. Absolute madness. Yes. And women, of course. I'm assuming she didn't know Sydney at that point, right? So then she moved to that town. She moved next door, handy, to Sydney Prescott. Thank God that came on the market. Yeah, exactly. At an affordable price for someone who'd been off the property ladder. for a single mother who has been institutionalized for a couple of years. Maybe her abusive ex-husband was really wealthy.

49:19Yeah.

49:19Chris Hewitt:Maybe if the house next to Sydney fucking Prescott comes on the market, it's not at full value. Okay. Good point. Great point. Well made. Good point. Yeah. There's a little bit of small print of the right move. By the way. Yeah, because you do due diligence. What are the neighbors like? They're great. They're great. The guy who lives next door is the chief of police of the town. Oh, is he? Great, I'm going to sign up. What does the wife do? His wife, she owns a coffee shop. She owns a coffee shop. And what's her name? Sydney Prescott. Sydney Evans. What did he say? Sydney Evans. Sorry, Sydney Evans.

49:53Chris Hewitt:Sydney, oh yeah, okay. Sydney Prescott. Yeah, Sydney Prescott. And she may be attacked by a ghost face. Yeah, none of it makes any sense. And even the murder of McKenna Grace's character, who, for lack of memory, I'm going to call McKenna Grace. McKenna Grace, when she gets killed in the theater at the beginning, even if that had somehow cast, say, suspicion on Tatum, that would have worked better. Tatum is the understatement, she's in the costume, and oh my God, this is the lead role of the play, and now she's dead, and what if Tatum becomes the star as a result, and even though she didn't do it, we all think she did.

50:34Yeah, I was talking to someone after the screening we were at last night and she was convinced that it was going to be one of the killers was going to be taken. She thought it was going to be like a Jill, like an Emma Roberts type situation. Yeah, but they went

50:44Chris Hewitt:there already, didn't they? They went there already, exactly. Yeah, is this the first time that none of the killers are sort of part of the sort of friendship group? None of them are part of the team? Roman. Oh yeah, that's true. And also I guess technically Scream 2, right? Mrs. Loomis is a character that I suppose she's had to be the elephant. Oh, Timmy, yeah. I keep forgetting about him. how can I forget about that hair how could you forget to be fair he wasn't at peak hair it's pretty good hair in that film I don't think so is Mickey is he Mickey in that Mickey Mickey Mantle Mickey you're so fine good news good news Helen uh huh even though Timothy Ollivan dies in Scream 2 his hair would continue to grow for some considerable time excellent excellent yeah no that was in his Jack Nicholson hair days that's good hair It does look very Jack Nicholson, doesn't it?

51:34No, it's fulsome and bouncy, but it's not, the shape is just not there at that point.

51:39Chris Hewitt:The shape's different. Let the record show that Helen is currently showing a picture of Timothy Olyphant, which as far as I can see is stored in a folder on her phone. That was a Google image search. Thank you very much. Does that say wank bank? Oh, there you. Not a Scream 2 picture. Come on, give me some credit. It's next to a folder marked simply flaccid Mike. I don't know what's going on there. Very interesting. All right, so the killer makes no fucking sense. So they get together. They have this chat. And she goes, all right, so I'm going to buy the house next to Sidney Prescott. And then I'm going to move in.

52:17Chris Hewitt:I'm going to befriend her. And then we're going to find that when the time is right, we're going to target her. And we're going to have to wait until they have an extension built. Because that is our way into this house. so yeah yeah what's going on there how did they rope in Carl the coffee guy as well like well he was next door to he was next door to Ethan Embry right Ethan Embry was an orderly there yes that's right and so they have these little chats they're playing Pictionary or whatever and they're always drawing people stabbing each other weaving baskets you know yeah what's this one ghost face oh yeah I don't know it doesn't make any sense okay so and who was and who was where who went all the way to Woodsboro to kill the kids in the opening sequence.

53:02It has to be Anna Camp, right?

53:04Chris Hewitt:Well, it's either Carl or Ethan Embry, right? It has to be just because Anna Camp is smaller than the rest and doesn't have the upper body strength to take out. Well, no, she does because she does Pilates. She's got great core. My God, the core four. Core four. But I think I assume I mean, I think there's one scene because I was very suspicious of Anna Camp from minute one. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. and there is one scene with a ghost face where I swear it looks it actually looks like platform shoes oh my god amazing well do you notice in the theatre kill when they kill McKenna Grace I wonder if that's Anna Camp could be because there's not much strength involved it's just sort of holding yeah McKenna Grace is doing all the work in her own killing in her own I think it has I think debowling I think I think it has to have been Anna Camp that attacked Joe McHale as well, which that doesn't make a lot of sense because Joe McHale, clearly he's a tough cop.

54:05Because that scene is going on at the same time as Gail and Sydney are talking to Ethan Embry in the hospital. That's when they've gone for the afternoon. That's true. So Anna Camp was the one jumping the cop and stabbing him up in that sequence. Whoa. That is true. And he's, what, 17 feet tall? Yeah.

54:24Chris Hewitt:Yeah, I just don't know. So I have, again, logic gaps and problems with that, that they wouldn't just leave their house, which has already been the subject of a ghost face invasion at that point. And he would just wander around on his own without backup, looking around, going, oh, there might be a ghost face here. I'm pretty sure there's a ghost face here. At no point does he draw his fucking weapon. I might be wrong about that, but it feels to me like he was just kind of wandering around. And then she gets him in the, I assume it is her, she gets him in that sort of plastic sheeting. and then stabs him, what seemed to me to be pretty fucking definitively, to death.

55:02And actually, quite sad, actually,

55:04Chris Hewitt:at that moment. You think, oh, shit, that's quite horrible, you know? It cast a pall over quite a lot of the rest of the movie for me, because I was like, oh, poor Sydney, her husband's just been killed, brutally. Tatum's dad. Tatum's dad. I think, what, two other kids with the granny? You know? Yeah. Oh, I thought they were making that up. When she said you've got three kids, it's like, okay, I only count one. We're the only two. No, because there's the phone call with the granny during breakfast. Oh, I completely missed that. Okay. Yeah, it's funny because I think it was mentioned in Scream 5 that she has multiple kids.

55:33There's a moment when Dewey says, are Mark and the kids okay? So I think they were like, we only want to focus on one kid, Tatum. We're going to have to write these other kids out of the script. I still feel cheated that Mark Evans is not Mark Kincaid. I'm just going to say it.

55:46Chris Hewitt:Because in Scream 5, it's clearly meant to be Patrick Demps. Yes. We're clearly meant to think it is. Of course we are. Absolutely. And they're actually, that's tied, that line of dialogue has tied them in to when Patrick Dempsey went, no. Because clearly that's what's happened. He's gone, no, I'm not doing that. Sorry. And they've gone, shit. So now. We need another Mark. We need another Mark. Sidney really loves guys called Mark who are policemen. This is like, she's got a very specific kink. A type. In her phone folder entitled Wank Bank. it's just cops called Mark yeah

56:27yeah no that was definitely they wanted it to be Mark King they absolutely did for sure

56:34Chris Hewitt:and Dempsey went nope I am too busy driving my cars and being hunky but actually I liked Joe McHale and I liked I liked the introduction of the Evans family and the mother-daughter relationship I thought was quite sweet and the yeah Sydney and her husband's relationship was quite sweet. I liked that stuff. I liked that he was going, oh, that one was on you. Yeah. And sort of makes her apologise. And I was like, oh, that's a nice sort of, not the sort of clueless dad dynamic who has no emotional impact in the family. Do you know what I mean? He's really involved. He's really caring. I thought that was a lovely moment.

57:06I really like that. Yeah. Does the timeline work?

57:09Chris Hewitt:I guess it does, right? Because she meets Dempsey in 2000, right? Yeah, that's a long time. Screen 3 comes out. 26 years. 26 years. Yeah. And her daughter's 17. So she has time to date Dempsey, become tired of dreaminess, muck dreaminess, and move on to a totally different cop called Mark. Woo him, marry him, have a child. Yeah, Tatum would have been born in what? 2009. Oh Jesus Christ. Shut up. This is why I hate maths. Why would you do that? So she would have been born before Scream 4? Yes. Oh yeah. Okay. But actually there's no mention of the fact that Sydney has a child. a one year a two year old and you said the Friday the 13th timeline was bullshit oh no that's blown my mind it's all falling apart oh no three kids can can can Scream 4 take place earlier can this take place later we're assuming it's happening in real time maybe it isn't maybe this movie takes place later I mean they do reference movies which does place it in a specific timeline but they don't in this movie not in this one So that's why Maybe that's why Maybe that's why Maybe they thought of that They were like We could We could use The Paramount pipeline Yeah the slate And start Start mentioning movies now That in two years time People are going to be like Yes But yeah I like Joel McHale I was very very sad When I thought He had been killed But luckily In this franchise You could be stabbed Multiple times with a very big knife.

58:47Chris Hewitt:But he's trained by the police force, Becky, to keep all his blood in his body. Correct. Keep his organs in. He doesn't do a very good job at keeping all his blood in his body. That is how he has been trained. Everybody knows who has seen Reservoir Dogs that a stomach wound or 45 is one of the most painful ways to be injured. But it takes you a long time. to die. Which is why he doesn't make a single sound. Yes. Is he just lying there quietly for like 12 hours? He's strategic. It's part of his police training. Play dead. In fairness, maybe he did lose consciousness. Maybe he did. Maybe he did.

59:30I thought he was going to, it looked a bit Black Christmas when he was wrapped in the plastic and I thought he was going to be propped up in the attic. You know, that's what I wanted to see. That would have been lovely.

59:37Chris Hewitt:But what was her plan, right? What was her plan? I mean, what the fuck was her plan? Oh, God. Okay, so. it's not Chris we can't apply logic to the but I like I have to so so so clearly Anna Camp insert character name here wants to do the grand unmasking so they don't kill Tatum in the coffee shop they take her back to Sydney's house and they do the grand unmasking make her look like Steve from the first one yes and they've made sure to forensically stab mark in just a red amount of places that he could be incapacitated but not lose enough blood to die and just be alive for the grand unmasking.

1:00:23Chris Hewitt:Okay, I understand that. That's all fine. How then does that explain them sending Carl to the house to clearly kill everyone at that point? Maybe Carl, who just came out of a psychiatric hospital, is not entirely controllable. He's a rogue agent. Yeah, he was a wild card. A wild card. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. He's the ghost face protocol. No, I'm sorry. That's going nowhere. Oh, I see. I know, I see you were going for it. But I often think this about all the screen movies, is that like, what's her plan? When they always attack Sydney in like act one, what if they do actually kill her? And they're like, oh shit, we didn't do our monologue.

1:01:10We weren't expecting her to die this quickly. I never know why. Yeah, exactly.

1:01:15Chris Hewitt:I had that line about movies make psychos more creative. She's bleeding out. She might still be able to hear me. Sydney! Ethan Embry's like, I've made all these deep fakes. I've got planted iPads around the house. Like, what the hell? You have no idea how fucking long to be defined footage of Stu Macker. Also, how stupid is it when Tatum gets into her boyfriend's car and his laptop is open and he's decided to be like mad Stu in order to just test out the technology. Just to see if it's possible. But he's saying, I'm going to fucking kill you, bitch, and stuff. And it's like, would you do that if you were just testing?

1:01:52Yeah, wouldn't you just like... Wouldn't you just go, one, two, one, two, test, test. Or have a quote from your favorite Disney film or something just to make sure it was completely... And also, the laptop is just left open on the dashboard. Oh, for God's sake.

1:02:05Chris Hewitt:Why didn't he bring it in when all the suspects were gathered and bring it in and go, guys, I've actually been testing. I've figured it out. It is possible. It is possible. and then oh but that throws the yoke of suspicions on you now but no no it's fine you look like a creepy psycho killer then he would go but no it couldn't be me because it was the boyfriend two movies ago so there's no way they would do that again it's simply too recent it's simply too recent oh dear I know but I actually really loved seeing Matthew Lillard I thought he was amazing he was great I genuinely if they had gone down the Stu magically survived and became has come back as a psycho killer to claim his revenge 30 years on that would have been better than what they did I would have loved it there was a because there was an idea for Scream 3 that Kevin Williamson had before he then left the project and Aaron Kruger rewrote it right but I believe the initial idea he had for Scream 3 was that Stu was going to turn out to be alive and there was going to be a sort of cult of Stu and there was going to be like a bunch of his sort of followers that were going to go out and murder for him or something so there was a moment in this film when I thought is that what this is going to be is it going to be multiple ghost faces working for Stu is it you know Kevin Williamson's initial idea interesting but I think he deliberately kind of teased that and they have kind of played again with some of those ideas in the last couple of films it feels like you know this sort of we worship these guys and we want to be just like them yes the kind of cult of ghost face yeah exactly I mean he had a fucking TV dropped on him he's probably dead but it's just probably dead Yeah, but teenagers are made of, you know, like, rubber.

1:03:42Yeah, and dreams. I dream of living to kill more people in the future.

1:03:49Chris Hewitt:Luckily, the TV bounced off the part of the brain reserved for dreams. Stronger than the most. Oh, dear. Anything else you want to talk about before we wrap this bad boy up in a plastic sheeting, stab it four times, and still not kill it? I feel like it goes without saying, but Neve Campbell was fucking great in this. like she's so effortlessly sort of Sydney yeah normal right like she's always been just like this like grounded real she feels like a real person in amongst all of these like wacky goofy characters and she's amazing in this yeah she is she's really really good and I kind of you know sometimes when people are sort of you know having emotional problems with a family member or a friend in a film and you're just like oh my god just say it already just talk it out geez and you were kind of in this case you were like no I understand why she might not want to rehash that and why it might be an effort for her.

1:04:42And I never believed that she was never going to do it, but I understood that it would take a run-up, you know? So I kind of thought it was a well-handled point of contention. Yeah. You know, it felt vaguely believable in a way it was. She feels so believable, doesn't she? Like, compared to Jamie Lee Curtis, who's, you know, as Laurie Strode, like, living out in the woods with guns or whatever, you know, like, you can believe that this woman has been through a lot but she's also got a life and got a family and she's got a little small business. And she just has like six locks on every door and a gun safe in every room.

1:05:17Yeah, exactly. And I liked that they made the decision to kind of go the complete opposite of the Jamie Lee Curtis Yeah. Trauma. Laurie Strode like trauma cache of weapons because what, you know, they had two choices didn't they? Either Sydney was doing that and like basically I know that she's got Tatum's like got a go bag and that kind of thing but she's not sort of drilling her in firearms use and all of that sort of thing Sarah Connor you know yeah exactly exactly the Sarah Connor approach she's trying to give Tatum a sort of life of normality and stability and not fill it with fear and trauma and all of that kind of thing too late yeah well but this is I thought that that worked because because she has made this active decision to not have a, you know, in Kung Fu classes or whatever, you do get a Tatum who is vulnerable.

1:06:19And that sort of added, I think, to the believable relationship between those two and the kind of mama bear thing coming out. Yeah. And sort of gave their development somewhere to go, which I enjoyed. And I think also the, you know, she has as a character tried the isolation thing she has tried you know taking herself off the grid living in a fortress that didn't work so she has to kind of find a way through and do something involving a normal life and I thought that works I did as well and I actually thought it was quite a sweet this kind of running thing throughout of like you've named me after a girl who was murdered you know you've named me after a victim and then there was a really sweet kind of tribute to Tatum and Rose McGowan at the end which I actually really liked I really liked that you know I thought it was sweet.

1:07:07What was that? I missed that. She's like, Tatum was really strong. She was my best friend. She was, you know, she was badass. She was funny. Oh,

1:07:14Chris Hewitt:I thought you remember within the, I thought in the credits or something, they went, this is dedicated to Rose McGowan. or something. But it almost felt like that with that speech. It felt like we were describing Rose McGowan as much as they were describing Tatum. That's absolutely right. Yeah, I agree. Neve Campbell is terrific and I think they're already talking about Scream 8. We don't know how this one's going to do at the box office. We'll find out soon enough. of course. Well actually now we do know how it's done at the box office. It has done gangbusters at the box office with the biggest opening of any Scream movie over 60 million dollars in the US alone and yes it looks like Scream 8 is almost certainly going to happen.

1:07:55Chris Hewitt:Okay back to the show that's enough from me and that's enough from Chris from the future back to Chris from a couple of days ago. If they do do a Scream 8 I haven't lost faith in Kevin Williamson I think we're talking about his his inexperience as a director but I think there are sequences in this movie that show that he has learned at the knee of Wes Craven and he can wring suspense out of a sequence and he's still a very good writer and if Scream 8 were his and his alone from inception then I'd be okay yeah alright let's give it a go because I think maybe of some of the logic flaws and problems that dog this movie might not occur in that case.

1:08:38Chris Hewitt:Yeah. You just get the feeling that this was a heavily compromised project after everything it went through, right? And so, yeah, I think you're right. I don't think that whatever we got by the end was Kevin Williamson's pure vision where he thought, I've nailed this. And weirdly, I feel more enthusiastic. It might not have sounded like it, but I feel more enthusiastic about the prospect of a Scream 8 after Scream 7 than I did Scream 7 after Scream 6. Okay. If that makes sense. Yeah, you were much more down on 6. Oh, it's my least favourite by far. Oh, well, see, I was quite down on Scream 5, even though I love Radio Silence.

1:09:15Chris Hewitt:And then Scream 6 brought me right back. And then Scream 7's a dip again for me. I still think it's a strong franchise overall. I think it's got a pretty good batting average. Yeah. Now that we're seven films in, it's... Yeah. It's impressive. Yeah. I did, though, I said this to you, Helen, after we left the screening, I did about five maybe ten minutes from the end hit upon a theory which I think maybe means that Kevin Williamson is a genius because we're talking about this movie not being very meta right but traditionally not always but traditionally the seventh film in a horror franchise is bobbins so you think he's done it on purpose he's deliberately made this film bobbins because it's the seventh film in the franchise and therefore it's actually genius and it's great he knew what he was doing he knew what he was doing there was a there was a fan theory initially that i thought could have been so much fun but scream 7 was going to be the wes craven's new nightmare of the scream franchise and what if you had nev campbell playing nev campbell and instead of the stab movies it's the scream movies are a thing oh my god because of course that was also a seventh installment where it's a new nightmare so you got Halloween H2O where it's a new nightmare all of which like kind of bring back the final girls but as sort of mothers and they all have that in common actually should we interrogate that because I've just I've just very glibly said that the seventh movie in a horror franchise is traditionally bobbins but is that actually true so how many get to seven first of all and of the seven ones which ones are actually terribly bad because New Nightmare is great New Nightmare is great H2O people love it I like H2O I like H2O Yeah, it's really popular.

1:10:57It's one of the most beloved. It was, you know, the early noughties or the late nineties and Josh Hartnett was really at his peak. So I'm not sure I can be true. Michelle Williams. Yeah, Michelle Williams.

1:11:07Chris Hewitt:Jamie Lee Curtis not saying the word trauma endlessly. I mean, she is, it's her best performance in the whole series. I think she's great. It was interesting what you said earlier about it being a bad horror film, but it's a really good Jamie Lee Curtis, Laurie Strode film. I think that's what I always said about those two. Like David Gordon Green's Halloween, It's a fun slasher movie, but a pretty bad Laurie Strode movie. I think Halloween H2O is a really good Laurie Strode movie, but a pretty bad slasher movie. Pretty bad Michael Myers movie. Yeah, exactly. All right, so Friday the 13th is...

1:11:39Is Jason versus Carrie. Yes. Jason versus the telekinetic final. Yeah, yeah. It's not the best. It's not the worst, though. Then how many other franchises? Saw. What's Saw 7? Saw 7 is a bad one. It's bad. That's Saw 3D. that was for a while the last entry before it stopped for a few years that is a bad one that's a bad one the one where the guy from Lincoln Park played a neo-nazi it's bad that's a good kill though

1:12:05Chris Hewitt:doesn't it where a bunch of neo-nazis get killed at the same time isn't it they get pulled apart by a car yeah and he's like super glued to the car seat and he has to like peel his own skin off but it is generally thought it was one of the worst yeah it's awful child's play 7 is Cult of Chucky which is pretty solid yeah That's got a good batting average. Alien? Really good. Alien, where are we with the Alien franchise? Are we counting Alien versus Predator? No. Okay, so Alien Resurrection, Prometheus. Romulus. Yes. All right, so my theory's bullshit. My theory's bullshit. And the seventh film of a horror franchise can be good.

1:12:44Chris Hewitt:So I don't know what Kevin Williamson was doing. I don't know whether he was playing a long game or not. I've just looked it up. Hellraiser 7 is the one incredibly titled Deader. Hellraiser Deader Deader who directed that is that one of the Derrickson ones or did Derrickson directed one didn't he Derrickson directed five Inferno oh okay it is Rick Boater Rick Boater oh Rick Boater do you know what Deader actually isn't the worst in that in that series as well it's a floating boater just got the stupidest name yeah stupidest name alright listen I think that on that note we're going to bring this to an end just very quick what's your favourite Scream movie Helen Scream Scream because I love Scream 2 but then they killed Randy and I have not forgiven Randy Mike Scream of course Scream 1996 definitely yeah yeah Becky Scream 3 no of course it's Scream I was going to say because you said Scream at the beginning and then you changed your mind only someone as diabolical as Roman Bridger would do that I think I'm a two.

1:13:56Two is. Yeah. I mean, it's probably, it's up there with being one of the best horror sequels ever made. Like, it is strong.

1:14:05Chris Hewitt:Yeah, strong. Strong, strong, strong. All right. Well, on that definitive note, I think that's it for our Scream 7 spoiler special. I hope you enjoyed it. And if you are a ghost phase, perhaps reconsider your ways. Right. Yeah, wise words, Chris. Thanks. I would honestly if I were even planning to be a ghost face I wouldn't do it because their batting average is zero yeah yeah no amount of Pilates is gonna help no none of them make it even to being arrested they all get fucking brutalized oh I did like that I liked the overkill with Anna Kahn where they don't just shoot her once in the head oh my god her face falls off yeah the face does fall off they're gonna take her face off Yeah.

1:14:54She does it like something out of Hellraiser by the end. It's Camp Blood. I mean, God. Anna Camp. That is a camp performance from Anna Camp. Not nominative determinism there.

1:15:07Chris Hewitt:No, it is. It's a, well, it's a hell of a thing. That is for sure. And on that bombshell, that is definitely it for a Scream 7 spoiler special. Hope you guys enjoyed it. Thanks as ever to Becky. Thanks. To Mike. no longer flaccid after that delightful conversation. So thank you. The implications of that sentence are chilling. Absolutely chilling. As in my mic is now working again and it's not. Oh boy. Is your mic what you call it? My microphone. My microphone. Oh my God. I knew this podcast was sexy but I didn't think it was that sexy goodbye Helen O 'Hara toodaloo and it's goodbye for me I'm off to look at my phone where I have a folder filled with pictures of cops called Mark mmm oh flaccid Mike's gonna have a great time tonight work damn you work god damn it it ain't gonna fucking work bye

1:16:21You