Send Help (ft. Sam Raimi)

25:50Chris Hewitt:Yeah. Yeah. really in the end just trying to take her seat let her die so that he could live it's very different than stealing our homework but it's pretty much the same thing i feel like you go on a second sam but i wanted to ask uh about the the major twist of the movie which we've talked about a little bit already which is that which is that linda has already seen this dream home and keeps going back to the house to get water and fresh fruit and just i imagine have lovely showers and just luxuriating yes exactly uh and uh whenever i saw the reveal of that it made me laugh so hard uh was that something in the pitch i guess from shannon and swift they must have pitched that to you yes and that i'm guessing was that the moment you went i've got to do this picture that wasn't the moment there was just another great moment in there in their pitch yeah but it was another surprising moment where I when they pitched it was laughing that she had really I have no idea what's coming next to this story it's so surprising and I love that aspect of it was it fun for you planting little seeds for the audience the knife I mean I did wonder where the knife came from the voices the writers put that there is it has for exactly that reason to be fair when that reveal happened that the seeds have been sown and the audience had experienced them and now they can put it together what it all really meant yeah well sam uh i cannot wait to see what you do next send help to send more help um you know with ejector seeds all around the auditorium i'm absolutely on board for that thanks absolute pleasure thanks much of your time.

27:35Chris Hewitt:All right, folks, that was Sam Raimi talking about Send Help. And as a special bonus as well, you are going to be getting also the Empire VIP Club Q &A that I recorded with Sam Raimi later on that day, in fact, and his producing partner, Sian Abassizi. And that will be available as a separate show, but it will be a little bonus for you as well. We talk about some of the same stuff, but also some stuff, some new ground is covered also. Speaking of new ground, is this new ground for Sam Raimi? or is it just a bit of familiar ground being broken in a really, really heartwarming, refreshing way? Let's get general takes on the movie before we dig into it.

28:13Chris Hewitt:Ben, I'm looking right at you. Oh, I had such a good time with this film. I was extremely excited for it. I am also a big Sam Raimi fan, and especially, like, Chaos Sam Raimi. Over his career, there are times where he goes slightly more serious Sam. I love superhero Sam, but Chaos Sam Raimi Horror Sam Raimi is my guy and this was just so much fun I saw it not in a press screening with norms with normies like nearly sold out human scum wow they were all good actually everyone was well behaved good it was like it was Sunday afternoon in Liverpool speak Cineworld Cineworld it was now what should I speak what's that what else should I speak now speak now Ben Travis is the best.

29:02Ben Travis is the best. Yay. It's great. It was nearly sold out. It was like a Sunday afternoon. I had a big bag of pick and mix. Everybody was in a good mood, including me. What do you need to tell us? No, I'm liking it. Set the scene, Ben. Set the scene. Excuse me, you extensively talked about your pick and mix experience in this film earlier. That was off air. That was off air. Same difference. All right. Hold on, hold on. What did you put in your pick and mix? What kind of sweets have we been talking about? Big emphasis on red cables. Nice. And then also the little like licorice-y ones that are like red and white stripes.

29:32Oh, God, they're so good. Fizzy cola bottles? Fizzy, the blue and pink ones. And then non-fizzy cola.

29:41Chris Hewitt:Okay, very nice. It was such a good time. Everybody was having an incredible time. I was cackling in my chair. Yeah, just an absolute blast. It's what I hoped it would be. And when you have those hopes going in, I'm like, I just hope it manages to meet those. because the cinema experience of something like Evil Dead 2 or Drag Me to Hell is like an unforgettable thing. And Send Help, honestly, was in a similar realm. So I never had, at least originally, the cinematic experience of Evil Dead 2. I don't know when you first saw Evil Dead 2, whether you managed to see it with people. Both of them. The Evil Dead I saw for the first time in a cinema and Evil Dead 2 I saw, I've said this on the pod before, I'm sure, saw it for the first time at Tyneside Cinema in Newcastle, 3 a.m.

30:29as part of an all-night cult movie marathon. There's bloody deadites on the screen. It blew my mind. It was one of the best cinema experiences I've ever had. Drag Me to Hell, I also saw in cinemas. So these things hold a very special place in my heart and send help. Now, ding, another one for the list.

30:49Chris Hewitt:Evil Dead 2, which as people will know if they listen to the show regularly, is genuinely my favorite film of all time and is, in my opinion, the greatest movie ever made. I saw it for the first time on an ex-rental VHS tape. Don't want to age myself, but I did. Bought it at a fair they had for ex-rental VHS tapes. Picked it up along with things like John Carpenter's Print of Darkness and Lethal Weapon 2 for just a fiver each, which back then was an absolute bargain. And took it home, put it on, and my mind was blown. I'd already been aware of Raimi beforehand because I'd seen a Jonathan Ross' Incredibly Strange Film Show episode about him.

31:31Chris Hewitt:So I'd seen clips from The Evil Dead and Evil Dead 2 and I believe it was pre-Darkman, so only those three films, Evil Dead and Crime Wave as well. But I still didn't really know what I was letting myself in for. And I only got the joy of seeing Evil Dead 2 on the big screen with a group of people when I actually hosted a screening of it a few years ago, which was lovely at the Phoenix Cinema in East Finchley, which was a lovely, lovely thing. It was a midnight screening and Bruce Campbell and Greg Nicotero both sent along messages for me to read out, which was very nice of them to do so. But anyway, yes, we're not here to talk about that.

32:09But there is something

32:11Chris Hewitt:I think I'm on in a kind of visceral impact of Ramey at the peak of his powers. He has been away from our screens for too long and it's only been a couple of years since Multiverse of Madness but before then it had been something like 12 no, 9 years 9 years between Oz the Great and Powerful and Doctor Strange 2 and I look at that at that time and I just think what we could have had and here I think more than in Multiverse of Madness you get a sense of you know, it's not full blown, Ramey he's not firing the camera around just for the sake of it as he did in Evil Dead movies but there is a real sense of a director's hand here, but when he does unleash himself in this film so to speak, it's a real joy, in my opinion.

32:57Chris Hewitt:Do you agree? I do agree, and yes you can definitely feel more of Remy's personality shining through in this. I had a really, really great time I saw it I was in the screening, it was a small screening with about maybe 10 other people in there so it wasn't the big multimedia experience that I would have loved to have seen this film with, and may yet still seek out but i had so much fun and i went into it not really knowing much much about it as well which i definitely think helped because i was pretty much along for the ride and every twist and turn and zig and zag i was fully into it and as we said on the main pod a couple weeks ago the way that this film plays with your sympathies for the characters is the real backbone that powers it and i was fully on board with that so i'm actually looking forward to watching it again now knowing how it plays out um just to see sort of how i fall and how i react to certain things because honestly walking out after watching it i was just replaying the film in my mind it's like oh we got a little tease of what this character may turn out to be in this moment and in this moment.

34:11And initially when I watched it, I just like sympathized with the character and said, I kind of get why you're doing it and you're not that type of person. And then the film goes the way it does. It's like, oh, I was wrong. And I really enjoyed being wrong-footed in this film.

34:27Chris Hewitt:All right, we're going to talk about twists and turns and whether people could see things coming, big reveals coming or whatnot, or whether it mattered that maybe you could figure out where it's going in terms of the end from a fair ways off, although there are other options on the table. But Hell's Bells, just general reactions, first of all, before we get into all that sort of stuff. Yeah, I really, mostly really, really, really enjoyed it. And I thought it was so... Mostly. Yeah, barmy and audacious. Mostly, eh? Oh my God. Look. Leave the woman alone. You can't turn down my mic every time I say, express the mildest of reservations about a samurai meeting.

35:04No, I had a great time with it and I did experience that slight shifting of sympathies in a way that I did not expect because my inclination is to be very sympathetic to Linda and not at all to Bradley. But I thought it did a very good job of sort of shifting that around a little bit. And yeah, some of the scenes are just so out there and outrageous. Like the boar killing scene, the way she gets drenched with blood, amazing. the CPR vomiting scene is going to stay with me probably for the rest of my life I will be I think the only

35:40Chris Hewitt:the one thing I think I would have preferred is if some of her vomit had gone into his open mouth I mean I think some of it pretty much did but like probably if it had been like but I guess that would get in the way of the CPR so you know fair play to her for trying not to but then if she does CPR and he vomits it back up into her mouth and then you just create this endless but there is also like genuinely like if you what's the word if you breathe in vomit basically it's very bad for your lungs and it can kill you. So I think they had to, you know, allow a bit of reality in there. What? Just a tiny, just a scooch.

36:12Okay. So yeah, I just had a blast with it. I really enjoyed it.

36:16Chris Hewitt:Yes, yes, indeed. Ben, I know you texted me on Sunday afterwards and you simply said the bore scene. The bore scene. It was not boring. It was, that scene, I think, added like a good five years to my lifespan. It just gave me so much joy. and the amount of like the fact that it just keeps going you know she's going to stab it but then it runs at her and she stabs it again and then it starts going crazy and then she's stabbing it in the face and then she's stabbing it in the eye and then the eye pops out and I was like we've got the eye popping out I needed some kind of eye popping turned out not to be the only eye pop in the film oh my god and you know it's just joyous that is what Sam Raimi does he to go no let's do it again and then chuck some more blood and add an extra splat and add an extra jolt.

37:02But also to be so perfectly controlled and impeccably timed, that stuff is just so much fun. And the whole audience was like cracking up. It was really, really electric. Did it matter to you at all that the boar was obviously CG? Yeah, the first half of it, like when she's first chasing it down, I mean, it also, while I was watching it, I couldn't help but think of Lost because Lost is just so ingrained in my brain. That was like the first big TV show that I watched start to finish. All the, you know, on location shooting of that, so much of that show, especially early on, is like, shit, we need to hunt a boar because we've got to eat something.

37:43And I know there is a real push in Hollywood, respectfully, you know, to use fewer animal performers that maybe there is an idea that just generally using animals in films is kind of inherently unethical. At the same time, it's the thing I bump on and everything I watch at the moment is that then whenever they do CG animals, even something like, I don't know, 28 years later, it's like masterclass all around the one bit that's slightly dodgy is like the big herd of deer. And you just look at it and you go, I know that's CG. So I just don't think quite technologically we are there yet in being able to just excise any use of real life animals and have it look photo real.

38:31It's a slight shame that before that, the boar does not look completely realistic, but

38:38Chris Hewitt:with the stabbing and the goo, the blood is real. He didn't use CGI blood, which is the biggest travesty. Real blood flung into Reg McAdam's face by apparently Sam Raimi himself. So that's good. And the goo, because there's blood, but then there's goo, and you've got to chuck some goo in there. You've got to chuck a bit of snot, a bit of boar snot. Definitely a lot of goo just being chucked generally in this film. So much goo. Goo, puke. And not the kind of like the puddings in the little pots. You know, not the good goo, the bad goo. Although they probably could have used some of those little pots on the island.

39:11That would have been helpful. You could set a fire by channeling the sunlight through the little goo pots. That would work. The foil could have been helpful to, I don't know. I'm not a survivor. It's hard to say. you'd be right at home with that island right now

39:25Chris Hewitt:I'm just right at home with a goo pudding who isn't who isn't it's interesting maybe I don't know if you guys have detected this but maybe it's because I have a slight bias towards Sam Raimi that I am willing to overlook in you know some of the shoddier CG in this movie you know the boar the moment where we see the big CG mat painting of the island and we see Bradley and Linda walking on it and it's like okay it's not great and then there are clearly times when it's a set, but rather than the island that they shot on the beach, they shot and they shot in different places in Australia and Thailand.

40:00Chris Hewitt:But that's fine because this is a man, the end of the Evil Dead is a plasticine Armageddon that I'm totally fine with. He's used every technique in the book over the years from matte paintings to stop motion that look absolutely shonky, but I'm totally on board with it. So I'm fine with it. I didn't need this to be 100 % photoreal, but did either of you bump up against anything like that during the course of this movie? No, I noticed it, but it didn't upset me too much. That stuff was fine. Same. No issues there. All right. Well, that's that avenue of conversation. Shut down pretty swiftly, which is good.

40:37Chris Hewitt:All right. So let's talk about shifting sounds and shifting sympathies in this movie. I'm going to start with you because I think Sam has set out to do something really, really interesting here. He's a man who has, over the course of his career, created some of the greatest big screen heroes of all time. There's Ash, who for my money is the greatest horror movie character of all time. Certainly the greatest horror movie hero of all time. His version of Peter Parker is absolutely indelible and iconic. And of course, there is Dr. Peyton Westlake in Darkman. With Linda Little, he has set out to create both a great hero and a great villain as well.

41:18Chris Hewitt:and by the end she's like a full-on movie monster. What was your take on Rachel McAdams as Linda and the way that our sympathies shift towards her throughout the film? Yeah. Well, as I've said to you, Chris, for a good chunk of this movie, I thought it was going to end with both of them back in the office and Linda in a rightful position as VP. So for a good chunk of the movie, that's where I thought it was going. I thought that could happen as well, yeah. and yeah slowly that idea got torpedoed um i think richard mcadams is incredible i i've also told you this like and and i get why you disagree but i think if you release this movie a few months ago there's a chance a small chance but a chance that she's in the awards conversation because she is doing for me oscar worthy work in this film she is phenomenal um she's not afraid to to have fun with it and fully commit to it and look silly on screen.

42:18She knows the comedy, she knows the serious beats, like it's really really impressive. There's one look that she gives, it's a very pivotal scene, it's the quiet fireside scene where she's telling Dylan LeBron about what happened with her husband, which is an awesome scene. But after she reveals to Dylan LeBron I should probably know the character. So we do characters to film them on. Come on. I know. Bradley, Linda, little. Got it. After she reveals to Bradley what happened to her husband, she kind of shoots him a look, which is giving, what do you think about what I just told you? And then it's punctuated by Danny Elfman's score that hints at the darkness within her at the same time.

43:09I love that sort of that balance between those two things all the way through the film so yeah I think she's great and I really like where it ended up this is a story about control and how power corrupts and how far people will go to hang on to that control especially when they find that having not had it elsewhere which is what Linda has found herself in with this survivor island that she is very well suited to so yeah i thought all of that was was working for me i mean when you look at everything rachel mcadams has done in her career it makes sense that it then all comes together in this one role because she is for my money in recent years like the most famous cinematic bully of all time as regina george with again all those like barbed lines that she gets where she's like you know complimenting katie while at the same time it's an insult it's like played on two registers at once then you also have something like game night where her comedic timing and her line deliveries are just so spot on and feel so naturalistic but so comedic and heightened at the same time and you swirl all those things together and you feel the like nefarious danger of her but also she's like a total goofball one of my favorite scenes in the film, in this film, that I really like that Sam Raimi left room for, was just that scene where they both, like, cackle over the fire.

44:45Bringing home the bacon. Bringing home the bacon. And that should sort of be, on the page, it's like a nothing scene. They're just sort of repeating that line back to one another. It obviously gives you a bit of a bonding moment between them, but the film doesn't need that scene. And yet, actually it kind of does, just to have those two just like cracking up together was so infectious. And as the scene went on, I could feel the whole audience laughing then too with them more and more as it went on. I think you need it for him as well. I think it's an important scene for him. You need a sense of hope that maybe they can get along, frankly.

45:22You absolutely get that. You need someone like Rachel McAdams, firstly to support women's rights and then to support women's wrongs.

45:32Chris Hewitt:Well, okay, Helen. So we talked about Rachel McAdams in the podcast before. She's amazing. I love her. I don't take any exception to what you said about her. This is an Oscar-worthy performance, I think, but it's the sort of performance the Academy would never do. But they should! I know they should, but it's not a prestige project and therefore they wouldn't consider it. But she's amazing. Helen, as we've discussed many, many times, her delivery of that line in Game Night. Yes, oh no, he died. which is also, by the way, the plot of this movie. I thought about that line when she was doing that scene because she says he died.

46:12And I literally thought, oh, no, he died. Oh, no, he died.

46:16Chris Hewitt:She's amazing. She is incredible. And Linda is a complex character, shall we say. Does she pull it off? Look, I have very complicated and lengthy, possibly, thoughts on this. Please tell me you don't relate to Linda, otherwise we're leaving immediately. I 100 % absolutely relate to a lot of what Linda has gone through. Yes, very much so. And I think it's a great sort of setup. I think it's a great concept for a character, and I think the power struggle is very real. I think as much as my sympathies shifted and the film made me wonder which way it was going to go, I never truly doubted that it would go the way it did because the alternative is not acceptable to me right now, especially in the world.

47:07But I think generally in the world right now, I think it would be wildly... I think it would be completely deaf to the zeitgeist to have the rich guy essentially win and go home. Because you get the sense that they're not both going home pretty early, or I did. And I did wonder, and I did wonder, is the path going to be she gets worse and worse and he gets better and better. And Ramey, to be fair, is not quite that binary. And I like that about this film a lot. I think that was great. But at the same time, it is ultimately an Eat the Rich film and I think it has to be an Eat the Rich film because we as a society need for our own survival to eat the rich, metaphorically speaking, not in the sense of killing them like boars.

47:50Chris Hewitt:The Emperor podcast does not necessarily condone what Helen has just said. No, I don't condone literally eating the rich, but I do think metaphorically, it would be helpful. Unless we became the rich. I'd be totally fine with that. Of course you would, Chris. But I just think, yeah, anyway. So I think that the level to which my sympathies were shiftable was limited. I think they did a really good job of painting Bradley as a particular kind of guy, and I thought that was really effective. And Dylan O 'Brien also, what a great actor. Yeah, we need to give him his allowance. And the only sort of slight hesitation I guess I have with Rachel McAdams and I know you disagree with this Chris and I'm interested to hear why I think she's incredible and I think she does an incredible performance but I do think that she is arguably miscast in the same way that Angelina Jolie I believe was miscast in Changeling because she gives a technically brilliant performance in that film but she is fundamentally miscast because you don't believe Angelina Jolie would be as passive and as sweet as that character is meant to be.

49:00And in the same way, I don't fundamentally on some level believe that Rachel McAdams isn't beautiful. And I have trouble, a little bit of trouble believing that even these dickhead frat boy wankers wouldn't, would be as viscerally disgusted by her as they are. And I think that they would... I know the film goes to a great length to convince us that she dresses in beige and has a mole and also has mayo by her mouth and that, oh my God, this is horrific. But she does still fundamentally look like Rachel McAdams and I do think if you had a Kathy Bates in that role, this film would still work.

49:44Chris Hewitt:I don't think the transformation would be as believable as it is if you had, say, a Kathy Bates, and this is no disrespect to Kathy Bates, who's amazing. Also incredible. But say, for example, Annie Wilkes, who I think Linda Little is clearly based on to some degree. The caterpillar and the butterfly aspect of that transformation, where Linda does bloom and becomes Rachel McAdams, let's be honest, as the movie goes on, I think you need a Rachel McAdams for that to work. It's not quite as cliched as she's all that, she takes off her glasses and something, she's amazing. Or Jane from Neighbors. is not like that at all but I think you need that also I think the movie goes out of its way to show that she probably was like that at one time she probably did have that she's been downtrodden yeah and her you know whatever went on with her husband has absolutely destroyed her whether she killed her husband or not that's something we can talk about but I think that you know she has retreated into herself and let herself go to that extent it is interesting that in the movie they do say that Bradley did flirt with her at the Christmas party and I'm guessing she dressed up for that and looked a little bit more Rachel McAdams.

50:47Chris Hewitt:Well, she believes he did, I think. Yes, but he, well, yeah, true. He doesn't remember it even slightly. Well, he wouldn't because, again, the movie goes out of its way to show that he surrounds himself with tens, like supermodel level looking ladies. Yes. And therefore, even Rachel McAdams in that context would be memorable to dickheads like him and Donovan and also their dickheads. Yes, no, I 100 % accept that and I 100 % believe that they have a very skewed idea of what a beautiful woman looks like. Yes. But again, so maybe not Kathy Bates. We maybe know people like this in our lives. But I feel like a Joan Cusack, do you know what I mean?

51:28I feel like there's a level that you could have maybe gone for.

51:33Chris Hewitt:But I also think there has to be an element in the movie of, and this is something I'd love to discuss for you guys, of that kind of, is there a layer of genuine attraction between the two of them? You know, Sam cuts to black at one point when they're huddled up in the cave. And the question is definitely there, did they have sex? But I think that could still exist, I'm sorry, with like a 90s Joan Cusack. You could still have that with someone who is just a little bit less obviously shiningly beautiful than Rachel McAdams. And again, this is no disrespect to Rachel McAdams or her performance. I think she's incredible.

52:05But I just think it did strain my credulity a little bit. That's all I'm saying. I don't know who you get to

52:11Chris Hewitt:you get this movie I don't know who else you would cast you say she's miscast I don't know who else you would cast I'm just saying that's my only kind of thing Judy Greer level Joan Cusack level objectively good looking women but not quite on that oh my god she's a movie star kind of Rachel McAdams level anyway like I said this is a nit that I am picking It is not a major like destroyed everything because I had a great time with this movie. But I did sort of think, oh, I just, you know, I kind of, I would still watch the Kathy Bates version of this. And I think it would be interesting if he was still having the same feelings about a Kathy Bates version of this.

52:54Because I think that's also an interesting thing for them to play. Because if you were the only two people and you were obsessed with this power shift between you and you are dependent on one another, or at least he's dependent on her. That's an interesting thing to play with. So that could have been another flavor. But look, they chose what they chose. And again, no quibble with Rachel McAdams' performance, which is off the charts.

53:18Chris Hewitt:And again, it's the old conversation we've had all the time. You need a Rachel McAdams to get this movie greenlit. Yeah, that's probably true. If you didn't have her, you'd probably have to have Timothee Chalamet in the Bradley role. Because obviously, you know, we've mentioned briefly that Dylan O 'Brien is incredible in this as well. This movie doesn't need Dylan O 'Brien, but Dylan O 'Brien fucking brought it. Oh, my gosh. Sir, I was not familiar with your game. It was a bit of a running joke between me and Sophie Butcher, formerly of this parish, sometimes still of this parish, that she mentioned, oh, I like Dylan O 'Brien in this whatever.

53:54And I was like, I just don't think anybody's a fan of Dylan O 'Brien other than the Teen Wolf stans. I recognize that was a big thing for some younger audiences. but he's having a great time at the moment. Twinless is fantastic. Twinless is great. In this, honestly, I came for the Raiminess of it all, but so much of what made the film successful to me was, yes, Rachel McAdams,

54:17Chris Hewitt:but also Dylan O 'Brien. His weird laugh combined with thousand-yard stare was just like cinematic dynamite, and he was so great at playing an absolute prick, but then those little moments of sympathy and seeing him lean into the comedic potential of this just totally pathetic dude in this situation who was well out of his depth he was so so good and as I said the fireplace scene where they you know let down their walls a bit and they just have this like really goofy moment we know Rachel McAdams can do that sort of stuff I didn't know Dylan O 'Brien could do that oh he's really good he's really good he's real good and I know he he was a very very last minute addition to the movie and he absolutely you grab this role with both hands because it requires him to do an awful lot.

55:05Chris Hewitt:I mean, it's physically punishing. It's mentally punishing. It must have been absolutely exhausting to go through what he went through, having various things thrown in his face. He manages to handle the comedy, the drama, the terror. That scene where he's paralyzed and we're meant to believe that she's cutting off as Johnson is absolutely, and he can only tell that story with his eyes, is just absolutely wonderful. He plays Bruce Campbell's son in the movie. So if you, I didn't notice until my second viewing. You didn't see the portrait. No, I didn't see the portrait. That was literally the question I wasted of Sam Raimi.

55:40Chris Hewitt:It was like, you know, when's Bruce Campbell in the movie? And he's like, well, he's in there. You got to go check it out again. And of course, Bruce Campbell is his dad in the film. You know, they never filmed a scene with Bruce Campbell in the movie. But, you know, he is one of the first kind of members of this new young generation of actors who are coming through and he's in his 30s but still a young generation of actors and I look at him and go oh yeah you could actually do what Bruce Campbell did in the Evil Dead movies I think maybe not quite the 3D's 2G slapstick of grabbing himself by the neck and flinging himself over but you never know I mean he did play Dan Aykroyd in Saturday Night he did play Dan Aykroyd very well as well yeah no he's fantastic you have to hate his character and we do but you also have to feel sorry for him about his points we do that too yeah and yeah the comedy when he's trying to get his own set up made and just utterly failing while Rachel McAdams literally is just like enjoying life that was very very funny to me but you mentioned Dylan O 'Brien I had to take this opportunity to say Love and Monsters came out a while ago but he is the lead in that that movie is great and it sucks because it's a really great movie and it's critically acclaimed and nobody saw it it made zero money but if you want more than an Orion that is where I would suggest you start because he is great in that movie and that was the first real indication of me post Maze Runner that this kid this kid has it my understanding is on Maze Runner the third one he suffered quite a bad injury and it took him a while to come back I think like a car drove over his face basically it was like a really serious thing I rate those Maze Runner movies as well that is a really key for me I think this came up when we talked about Wes Ball and Kingdom of the Planet yeah yeah yeah they are really solid movies and on the upper end of the like YA adaptation boom turning pretty bad books into really solidly entertaining like action chase thrillers but in that he was like the boring serious hero he didn't have any personality yeah he didn't have that much to do I mean the Will Poulters this world had a little bit more freedom in that one and a really good young cast I don't love them as movies if I'm honest but But nothing against the young performers because they all gave their all to it.

58:00Chris Hewitt:Absolutely. All right, let's talk about twists and the ending and whatnot. So, Helen, you saw the ending coming because they couldn't reward Bradley for being a prick, even though he does show a human side as the movie goes on. You're absolutely right. The cultural reasons that you're talking about. There are cultural reasons. Societal reasons. And obviously, look, he's an artist. He could go against that if he wanted to. but I don't think it would just be satisfying on a story, on a narrative level to have the rich guy. I mean, it's my problem with a good year, right? In a good year. That's your problem with a good year?

58:35There's so many problems.

58:36Chris Hewitt:Same as one of the worst movies ever made. But like, you know, the story of a good year is that a really rich, obnoxious guy gets richer and gets a girlfriend. And that's it. He deserves it. He doesn't deserve it. He fundamentally doesn't deserve it. And this would be the same thing. if he just, you know, came back triumphantly from a desert island, having survived the attentions of a psychotic, as he would portray it, underling, that would be obnoxious and unsatisfying. So I think it had to go the way it did. I also guessed about the house. Oh, see, that's what I want to talk about. I did not.

59:14Okay, and the reason it was on my mind is that I said there's another film that if I mentioned it, it would be a spoiler for this. and that film is Triangle of Sadness. And in Triangle of Sadness, you have a... Puke.

59:27Chris Hewitt:Lots of puke. There's so much puking. There is also so much. There's more than even in this film. But there is also a, you know, sort of economically disadvantaged character who becomes the expert on survival and to whom everyone must kowtow because they need her fishing skills. And she isn't thereby incentivized to keep them all on the island away from civilization, despite the fact that they find that within a short walk, there is a luxury hotel. So it's the same kind of setup as this, that there is civilization within reach, and it's really, really close. Yeah, okay. I just assumed that when she's saying, don't go towards the big X rock, that that was where she saw the boat.

1:00:13So she's like, oh, if you don't go over there, you're not going to see that there's loads of boats coming past. To be fair, I didn't specifically know it was a house, but I thought that there was going to be some very easy access to civilization. Yeah, that was my assumption. The house caught me off guard. Yeah, me too. It just kept stringing me along because, again, thinking back to various moments in the film, the plane crash where the guy's clinging to her and she sort of removes his hand. That's the first, thinking back now to what the character ends up becoming, I look back at that moment and I was like, initially when I first watched it, I was like, okay, everyone's trying to survive.

1:00:52And at that point, everyone's still laughing. It's quite a funny scene, so I can pass that off. But to be fair to her, in that scene, he is not just trying to hang on to her. He is actively trying to unbuckle her. He's trying to throttle her as well. So it's not a simple, she doesn't help him. She doesn't let him kill her. So I don't think that's as much of a red flag as maybe you're implying. And then the boat comes and she doesn't wave it down. It's like, okay, it's fine. She's in that element. She wants to enjoy the island. Okay. Let her enjoy it. Let her enjoy the island. It's fine. Then I think that, and then we got the fireside scene with the reveal of what happened to her husband.

1:01:37And even then I'm like, it's an abusive husband. She was in the moment. She maybe regrets it now, but I can kind of see why she, in the moment, initially watching for the first time, this is what I was thinking. It was only when it was fully revealed that she killed his fiance and the guide that I'm fully sort of, okay, you're a psychopath. But it took a while for me to get there. Did you guys get there sooner? I didn't get there sooner. I think Zuri is the big turning point.

1:02:07Chris Hewitt:Because she is like an innocent party in this. Totally innocent. Bradley, kind of fucked that guy. you know there are many reasons if you're going to tally it up not that we should do this with human lives if we're going to tally things up you go okay you know there's a lot in the bad column of like yeah this guy needs to get gone but Zuri you know actually she's so nice she's really nice shout out to her she found the island trapped it down made her way out there remembered Linda after what must have been weeks or months remembered Linda made her way to the island and she is like an innocent party in all this and that is the real transgression for Linda.

1:02:47And to me, everything else running up to that is like, it's not like, ooh, there were always signs that she was like, had a psychotic sort of side to her or a psychopathic side to her. But just little hints of like, when somebody is pushed too far. Yeah. They might find themselves capable of things. The Zuri side of things is like, that is a snap moment. That is like, you really have crossed a line. Thank God Helen's here as our legal expert.

1:03:15Chris Hewitt:Helen, is that murder when she accidentally slipped and that rock fell on that man's head and then he fell off the cliff along with Zuri? That's surely men's real, right? Oh, no, that's full-on murder. Full-on murder one? I've been watching a lot of Law & Order. Murder one or murder two? I think that's murder one, yeah. I'm going to go for man one with time served. You'll be lucky. I don't think any prosecutor would offer you that deal. Do you think... Based on what we're seeing, of course, you'd have to establish it, which would be impossible. Okay. Yeah. I think, yeah, I think the stuff before that, look, she's obviously, by that point, she's already pretended to cut off his balls.

1:03:52So that's her worry at that point. She has absolutely committed assault and just been horrific at that point. So she's rightly worried about what would happen to her she went back to civilization at that point. I do want to say a word on behalf of her vis-a-vis the abusive husband. Assuming her account is accurate, she did nothing wrong. She simply didn't save him from the results of his own fucked up actions. And she had no obligation to do so in the circumstances described. The fact that she still nevertheless feels guilt about it is, if anything, a mark in the not a psychopath column.

1:04:29Chris Hewitt:I agree. I don't believe that. I think there's a question for the audience about whether she killed her husband and clearly Bradley at the end of the movie just before they have that knock down dirty fight which I really want to talk about clearly he's he's not too sure that moment around the fire is the moment he goes oh fuck I need to get off this island he was already leaning towards that of course but I think that's the moment he goes oh oh my god but I don't think she killed her husband I think also her reaction to having killed Suri and that poor boat skipper pilot man indicates that this is the first time she's actually killed anyone.

1:05:04Chris Hewitt:I agree. Even, you know, what happens on the plane happens on the plane. But, and the guilt that she feels about that, you know, where she literally tries to wash away her sins. It's not blood necessarily. I don't think it's any blood on her. No. But she goes to the sea and she washes away her sins. She's haunted for the next day and a half by that. I don't think that's someone who's killed before. No, I agree. Literally as well. I loved the jump scare, the slightly dead-ighty jump scare. Oh my God. It was just so spot on. Gratuitous jump scare of the year. she looks at the camera practically goes boom yeah she jumps at the camera it's absolutely 100 % gratuitous and I love it and yeah that moment yeah I do think she feels massively guilty and the husband stuff I think she's telling the truth around the fireplace as well I don't think she has any reason to lie I think and as Helen says you know what she did in that moment was just go do you know what it's not up to me to save you anymore I'm not going to put myself in the way of your own actions but that is different to eventually where she finds herself at the end of the film but at the same time I think when Bradley is going oh fuck I need to get off this island there's a darker side to Linda I think he would be fine if they stayed living on the island and he basically did whatever she needed him to do he would be fine and I feel like she would be relatively fair about what she wanted to do and what she wanted him to do.

1:06:33But if he started to push it, she has the power and she would put him in his place. But I think also he can't stand the idea of being on the island forever without having the power. That's very clear, I think. And I think that's, you know, his fear around the campfire, I think is more it says more about him than her. So as established I don't think she killed her husband and I don't think she had a moral obligation to save him. But I think it is I think it freaks but I think it freaks Bradley out that she was as he sees it capable of letting a man die because he's very aware that he is also at this point in her power a little bit and it's about power and it's about getting past his own ego and it's something that he absolutely cannot do.

1:07:27Chris Hewitt:Yeah, I thought at one point the ending where they did kind of have a truce and she got the bump up and they went back and they were fine but they both had each other's secrets. That is taken off the table around the time both try to poison each other. I think then it's like, okay, who is going to make it off this island? A couple of questions before we move on. What do you think Linda does after killing Bradley with that great swing? Very good golf swing, by the way. Because Suri, presumably, people know where Suri is. Maybe Suri has her phone. Did she scuttle the boat? Did she sink the boat?

1:08:12Chris Hewitt:I think she probably did. Will people come looking for the captain? Will people come looking for Suri? What did she do immediately afterwards? She's killed someone in the house of this billionaire. Even though he's not there at that moment, and he will turn up at some point. Clearly, the story that she concocts is afterwards, she builds a raft that Bradley's been suggesting building for the entire movie. She builds it, gets into a shipping lane, gets noticed, gets saved, becomes a major, you know, celebrity. But what did she do at that point? Did she take Bradley out of the house and bury his body along with Suri and made sure it couldn't be discovered?

1:08:42I think the sensible thing would actually be to sink the bodies. Sink the bodies?

1:08:47Chris Hewitt:Weigh them down with rocks? Okay. Because then they'd get probably eaten by fish or whatever over time and would be much much harder to find. If someone found a buried body on the island that would be a much bigger red flag than if the two bodies were in the sea. Remind me not to get stranded on the island. I'm just trying to think things through here. And there's going to be cleaning products in the house. She was so quick to that answer as well. I was thinking about it while we were talking earlier. That's all. I love that shot of Zuri's hand sticking out of the sand at that crazy angle again.

1:09:21Very Jaws.

1:09:22Chris Hewitt:Yeah. Yeah, it's a great job. Okay, that's good. That's good. And yeah, she cleans the house. There's cleaning supplies there. There's cleaning supplies. So the cleaning people, the caretakers, they were going back every week and replenishing the place with food and water and they didn't notice that the fruit was going missing and that the knives had gone missing. Right, because the fruit is fresh in the bowl when Bradley goes in at the end of the movie. So that would indicate to me that they've been coming back in but they didn't notice the knives had gone. Maybe the guy was due to visit, you know, at some point soon.

1:09:53Maybe they just go in on occasion when he may or may not be visiting. I'm saying he because it's that kind of movie.

1:09:58Chris Hewitt:Well, she does say Ball Street billionaire dickhead. So, yeah, I presume it was a bloke. Yeah, I love that twist. I didn't see it coming a mile away. I didn't see it until Bradley turned around and saw the house. I thought it was absolutely glorious. Yes, triangle of sadness. But also the village, right? Spoiler for the village, by the way. where you think it's one thing, but actually civilization is right over there. And also, I really liked that it gave you a tonal switch up for the last act of the film because we've spent a lot of island time, we've had jungle showdowns, we've had them facing nature, them facing each other, but then it becomes basically like a slasher where they're in a house trying to take each other down.

1:10:38And that, I think, re-energized, I think, the last sort of few minutes of the film to just put them in a different scenario with all of the stakes that have built up over the course of the island stuff to then shift them into that scenario, I just thought added a nice little new angle on things.

1:10:55Chris Hewitt:I'm going to ask you guys a question I asked Sam Raimi. I asked him, was the ending of the movie in any way meant to be possibly a fantasy? He said no. I say no too. I get it she looks at the camera right at the end of the movie it all feels a little bit too good to be true but I also get that it can work as a literal ending she's got off the island and she would be turned into a celebrity especially if her bullshit story holds up and they don't find any bodies that have been clearly stabbed and bludgeoned to death with a golf club that would be fine so I get that but there is also a Travis Bickle taxi driver reading to the ending as well where maybe she's gone do lally and is imagining this in her head.

1:11:47Like the American ending of The Descent kind of a thing,

1:11:50Chris Hewitt:is what you're thinking. Yeah. She's in the house going, rocking back and forth slowly. Surely nobody would imagine a scenario where they're playing golf as a happy ending. Hello. I don't see that that would be anyone's idea of a fantasy. I'm afraid that Helen, that is my happy ending. yes very much so good swing again Rachel McAdams yeah I just thought that's something that could be read into it did anyone else feel that or was it just me no I took it as a literally cheeky wink to the audience but also a like I'm looking at you audience you know what happened don't you fucking tell anyone or Linda Little will come and get you yeah I took it as a with my mate Andrew Aldi yeah the two reigning champs the two rainy chats Amon did you feel that?

1:12:43no it was real to me it was real okay good

1:12:48Chris Hewitt:good good I'm the only one who feels that way I don't feel it now but just looking at the camera it's something Remy hasn't really done that often in his career she does it a couple of times in this movie she whenever she's observing Bradley on the surveillance system she looks at the camera at which she says you know I never wanted any of this to happen and then she looks at the camera again but she's addressing the camera in world in film when she talks to the when she does the interview at the end of the film but then to look at the camera not really something Raimi does a lot I really really liked she did it very briefly in Multiverse of Madness there's a moment where Wanda is dream walking into herself and she's in the house with the kids who now no longer exist and there's a moment where she then looks straight into the camera just for a second she goes past and it's such an incredible little like, ooh.

1:13:41Chris Hewitt:And also the very last thing we see in that movie is Bruce Campbell directly addressing the camera. As well. Is he still hitting himself at that point? He stopped hitting himself. He's been freed of the spell at that point. So he looks at the camera and dances around. So that's two films in a row. What a hack. What a hack. Come up with some original ideas, Ramey, for God's sake. Do we think this was Ramey enough, this movie? that we get our fill of sensational Sam, super sensational Sorrow Way Sam. Yeah, I think it's also quite a good introductory Raimi. Raimi for beginners. Well, a little bit.

1:14:17Like, you don't, I don't know that kids nowadays need to start with Evil Dead. You know, but I think this might get them into a place where they can then go on to watch Evil Dead. I feel like it would be a nice progression, this, to Drag Me to Hell. Yes, exactly. Even though Drag Me to Hell is like PG-13 and this is art. Really? Yeah, I think there's there's lots of fucks in this oh but Drag Me to Hell is gnarly that had a moment I will never watch it again really it's fun that's a fun one it messed me up something when the old lady gums Alison Lohman on the possessed talking goat what more do you want that final minute is still

1:14:54Chris Hewitt:oh it's got it's one of the great endings incredible it's great but I don't want to think about it there was a moment with Send Help where post the bore scene the bore scene comes relatively early on it does yeah and And there was a moment where I was like, I hope that's not the end of the splatty, grainy madness. And then I felt so happy as it went on. And Linda is like vomiting on Bradley while she's trying to save his life. And then, you know, all the fight stuff at the end, they're absolutely like whacking each other. The fight is fucked up. It's really fucked up. Yeah. And then, of course, like the final golf swing, the incredible match cut from swinging the golf club at the head seeing the eyeball but then also the match cut then to the golf ball flying out was just again had me cackling that's pure Ramey shit yeah and there's some wonderful he doesn't do it when you get on the island but he does it in the office space he does some wonderful extreme close ups which is not really again something that he does a lot of like you know something like Quick and the Dead he'll do very very big close ups loony close ups on people's faces but those close ups of Rachel McAdams lips and Dylan O 'Brien Brian's eye and then Dennis Haysbert's eye.

1:16:07Chris Hewitt:Very, very briefly does it. But you get these moments of just little flashes. But otherwise, I think it's quite classically directed. Yeah. I don't think he maybe feels like he needs it anymore. Like he'll, you know, he has those tools all in his arsenal and he pulls them out and, you know, gives his little... Some moves he invented as well. Some little joshes as well. Yeah. Yeah. It's the tonal sensibility of it that comes through more for me. The first moment where I was like, oh, we are really in Sam Raimi land. Yes, all the stuff in the office, as you say, with the close-ups. But when... Who's the other dickhead guy from the office?

1:16:39Donovan. Donovan. When Donovan flies out the side of the plane, and then he's just bashing against the window of the plane right next to

1:16:48Chris Hewitt:Linda, and he's just like, boof, boof, boof, banging off it. That was the first, like, okay, this is... That is an objectively horrible, terrifying thing to happen to somebody. But also, look at him. He's whacking his head. But also, it's fucking hilarious. It is hilarious. Also, the audience, I watched it again today I think it's my third time I say think because I ducked in and out because we were doing the VIP screening and I had to duck in and out to meet Sam and various people so I didn't entirely see that film second time or else this is my second and a half screening and the audience were really tickled tickled pink by that moment and the boar scene and they were just cackling all the way through which was nice in all the right places no it's great to see him being unleashed that plane crash sequence we've seen so many plane crashes now on movies on movies In movies, in fact.

1:17:35Chris Hewitt:And I don't think I've ever seen one like that before, which is absolutely... It's really teetering on the edge of absurdity. But it's still terrifying. But it's, like you said, so funny. Yeah. And yeah, I went back and watched the trailer after having watched the film. That scene was in the trailer. But again, I went into it. It's completely cold. So it came out of nowhere for me. It's like, oh, shit. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Did not see it coming. But you mentioned Drag Me to Hell there. this does feel like a spiritual sequel to Drag Me To Hell a little bit. There's some similar story beats. This is another film about capitalism, so it's Drag Me To Hell.

1:18:14This is a film about someone trying to get a promotion, so it's Drag Me To Hell. So there's a bit of a spiritual sequel thing going on here. Yeah, in Drag Me To Hell, she's effectively trying to play the man's game and is told by her boss, you've got to be more ruthless, you've got to be unemotional about this. And there's a gendered element to that. and obviously there is clearly a gendered element to Linda being denied that promotion as well. They sort of start in similar places.

1:18:40Chris Hewitt:It's interesting though that it's a very, very different Andy and Alison Lohman in that movie, you know, spoilers for that film. Gosh. You know, it gets punished at the end. Drag to hell. I mean, maybe this is the sort of apology to all the put-upon, unpromoted people out there for drag me to hell. Yeah. have you been passed over for a promotion by a dickhead boss this is the movie for you this is the movie for you because it's not yeah they're not it's not just the promotion in this case it's everything the promotion represents respect respect like fair treatment you know honour a sense of honour living up to the promises that have been made it's you know it's the whole breakdown of late stage capitalism anywho it's so satisfying on like a narrative level very very cleanly constructed that the moment they are all laughing at her survivor audition on the plane and cackling is then the moment that that kicks in for her, that that's going to be the thing that saves her and they're all gone.

1:19:43It's a really, really tight setup for everything that comes. We should mention that, you know, but Damien Shannon and Mark Swift wrote the script and as you say it's very tight to the point where the raft that Linda uses to escape mirrors Donovan stealing her work in the first act she's doing the same because now she's the one in control with all the power. Nice bookender.

1:20:08Chris Hewitt:Yeah, I don't necessarily know that she's stealing that idea though from Bradley. I think she knew that at some point she'd have to build a raft to get off the island or that would be an option that would be open to her. I think once she kills Bradley and once she kills Suri that she can't just wave to a boat and say I'm here, take me, take me back. so she has to get off the island but maybe the idea of building a strong one would have been something that would have come more naturally to her I think than Bradley but it's a really good screenplay and Raimi's got a coterie of amazing collaborators on this many of whom he's worked with in the past Amon you mentioned Danny Elfman's score which is really really great and un-Elfman like I would say I think if you played that to most people and they wouldn't be able to immediately identify Danny Elfman?

1:21:00Not immediately. There are some Elfmanisms, if you will, that come out, I think, midway through the movie. But yeah, it's a really solid score. The Linda theme that we get early on is very beautiful and elegant. It's a very versatile score. So the way it's used and then he switches it up as things get darker, I think is very, very smart. so yeah

1:21:26Chris Hewitt:also great work by the editor Bob Morawski and Bill Pope is his DP once again on this and you know sterling work again not really throwing the camera around that much but it does move at times but only when it's motivated to do so we get a couple of little swirls to me that felt really really classic Raimi there's the Boar's POV during the scene where he's chasing down Linda and that's very Evil Dead but there are a couple of little moments that just felt very Ash Evil Dead to coded to me. There's, and maybe this is just me, but there's, there's a moment, that great montage where Linda leaves Bradley by the tree on his own for a day and a half and you get this wonderful montage of Dylan O 'Brien, the camera just, just panning back and forth, well, panning across him from left to right and of him going from angry to really, really, really angry and then to despondent as the tree gets blown away.

1:22:25Chris Hewitt:It's like, I could do this all day. That's not a problem. This is okay. This is okay. This is not okay. And then he suddenly sunburned and parched. That's a really, really great montage. Not in the office anymore. Yes. But the shot that ends that sequence is there's a shot of the sun behind him and the camera then pulls back and reveals him. And that is very much like a shot in Evil Dead 2. And there's another moment when he discovers Suri's hand on the beach, which is again like a moment in Evil Dead 2 where Ash discovers the bridge has been destroyed overnight by the evil. And yeah, it's really great.

1:23:02Chris Hewitt:Evil Dead 2. Do you like this film? No, not really. No. I haven't seen it. In fact, I only read the Wikipedia. I've heard it's groovy. What is that? Is that what we must say? I don't know. Who says that? Is that a quote from the film? I just heard somebody say once that it was groovy. Okay. All right. legend has it it was written by the dark ones it's the first line anyway the thing you mentioned about Bradley on the beach that whole like day montage as well it is the evil dead thing of it is grounded in the reality of the film but it is also like cartoon logic yes and that you feel that all the way through the film specific moments like that it really jumps out you really do you really do anything else you want to talk about before we wrap this bad boy up just that the final needle drop of One Way or Another was spot on and you know it's great it's teed up at the beginning when they're talking about karaoke but also the lyrics One Way or Another I'm gonna find you I'm gonna get you get you get you which she says very early on you know it's all there two last things I want to mention we talked about this a little bit do you think one of the things the film introduces and kind of tiptoes around a little bit is the elephant in the room is sex between the two of them.

1:24:24Chris Hewitt:There's that moment, you know, Linda, clearly in the beginning of the movie when she's talking to her bird sweetie, says, you know, he's attractive and he's single. You know, so I don't know whether she has any designs on him. But when she sees Suri, she's a little bit thrown, I think. And she says, happy fiance. So maybe she fancies him. I think she does. Yeah, it's something that I think, I don't know, the film doesn't really want to get into that much but it's there nevertheless she sees him swimming nude in the in the sea you know clearly she's attracted to him there's that moment when when Raimi fades out when they're in the cave and we're meant to figure out you know you draw your own conclusions whether or not they they succumbed and and had a bit of the old you know um she wakes up the next morning she appears to be naked so that would seem to indicate yes but they don't really refer to it afterwards so do you think that they i don't know do you think the movie kind of pulled its punches a little bit when it came to that because that's a that's a darker layer that i'm not sure i would have been comfortable with the film getting into not least because i'm british i'm happy they kind of left it there i liked it more as just an additional texture to the way that these two are both sort of attracted and repulsed by each other at the same time like he is repulsive in his attitude and basically everything that he does and yet you know he is a hot guy and it feels like you know her flirtation with him at the party to me read more as like oh we caught a vibe and that bodes well for the promotion that i want because we've got like just a good rapport going on more so than like actively i want to be with him.

1:26:07Yeah. But then his thing with her is that he is in the office absolutely repulsed by the tuna and everything else going on. And then over the course of it, he's like, he becomes more physically attracted to her, but then also comes to find her dangerous. I think it was just like a little extra push and pull. I agree. I think push and pull is exactly right. I think we do see that he can be charming when he wants to be, and he can manipulate people, and he can be He can turn it on, basically. And we see him do that with her when he wants something from her. So I think he is aware that he's handsome and is using his handsomeness and I think was probably, maybe not quite flirting, but certainly definitely charming at the Christmas party on purpose because he was figuring out the lay of the land.

1:26:54And his dad had told him, this person is useful, this person is important, and therefore he goes in and he is charming. I don't think, having established that revulsion, I don't think he would easily get over it. And I think, yes, there are moments on the island where he can go, my God, she's beautiful. You've taken off your glasses. I can't believe it. You're not wearing beige. What the fuck?

1:27:17Chris Hewitt:But I love that she still had Bridget Jones' big pants. Yes. So horrible. But I think that, you know, if they had made it concrete, then it would have introduced a whole new... also even more messed up series of power dynamics between them. And it would have made it so much more uncomfortable, certainly if it was made explicit. Not necessarily visually explicit, but just explicit. No, I get it. And I think it works more as a sort of, like he's aware that this is a weapon in his arsenal. And I don't think she has serious hopes of him at any point, even when she's telling her parrot that he's single.

1:27:56I don't think that's a serious thing. I don't think she is, I think she is somewhat maybe disappointed by the obviousness of this literal supermodel kind of coming in. Of course, he's with somebody who looks like that. And I don't think she credits her with any real capacity for, you know, thought, which is wrong on Linda's part. Very clearly as we see.

1:28:20Chris Hewitt:Or indeed feeling between like it's a real thing. Yeah. We don't really see him mourn her that much, but when he sees her hand, he actually does break down. I think that's interesting I think that's you know there was something real there like she isn't just another disposable girl although that all said he was essentially hitting on the candidates for his secretary he was which she turns back on him as well yeah that scene where he you know she basically makes him beg to have some sushi which we now know is from the house which was as was the knife equally delicious I did wonder about the knife I was like did the knife washed up?

1:28:59Chris Hewitt:I mean, we didn't see that. I felt stupid when she was like, do you think knives just wash up? I was like, yes. I thought she could have come up with a better explanation for the knife. It could have been in some, like if it was in a melon when the plane went down, the melon could float with a knife in it, right? There are probably ways. She held the melon as her buoy, as the Americans say, and then she floated on the melon with the knife in it I'm not saying she has to hold the melon I'm saying she could have found a melon that washed up with a knife in it but anyway in that scene she does she does make him think that she wants sexual favors from him she turns the tables but again I don't think the movie is necessarily interested in pursuing that line of questioning one last thing two last things actually I wanted to ask you guys length we've talked about sex we might as well go to length I've seen I've seen some people say in fact I know some people who've seen this movie who aren't quite as up as we are who say that it's over long it's nearly two hours long someone I don't know if I should say their name it was Nick called it an over long Tales from the Crypt episode and it's interesting because I've seen it no two and a half times and I don't know I think there's something in that to an extent but also I don't know what you would cut because I think every scene develops the audience's sympathies for one character or another in an interesting direction and I never also I've seen it two and a half times now and I haven't been bored at any point me neither but equally if this had been a sippy 90 to 100 minutes maybe I don't know it's done okay at the box office it's done pretty well it's been number one two weeks in a row in the states but I don't know That's the thing about The Evil Dead, or Evil Dead 2, is like 80 minutes.

1:31:00Oh, is it? Sounds good, this movie. I should look up. Oh my gosh. It's also a film that you watch it and go, this is what happens if you make a film without any of the boring bits that sometimes are necessary. Sometimes you have to do a bit of like, we need a couple of scenes to characterize this, so then that happens, it all pays off. Evil Dead 2 just finds a way to cut all of that stuff, and every scene is just like sheer entertainment. Send Help, as you say, you could imagine a slightly zippier version of it. A 90-minute version of this would be an incredible romp. At the same time, something like the bringing home the bacon scene, I like that it finds room for those moments and it lets the characters just like breathe and exist for a bit.

1:31:45With respect to Ash, this is a much more like character-based film. It is in the dynamic between those characters and how they're kind of one-upping each other and sussing each other out and trusting each other and they're not trusting each other. And so I think you need a good amount of time with them. I think you need those quiet moments with them sometimes to create that sympathy or to subvert that sympathy. And so compared to something like Evil Dead, where it can just zip through because it is just pure cartoon logic as it barrels forward, this isn't that, even though there are some tonal similarities.

1:32:18Yeah, I think given that this is a character piece, I think if you tried to compress it much more, I think they would end up feeling very thin and cartoonish and we would be sitting here criticizing the fact that they didn't make much sense and they kept just doing crazy things. And I think that that little bit of extra room... Little bit. Little bit of extra room does give them a bit more of a through line and make them feel kind of coherent and human, more human. Yeah, I would agree with all of that. you need some verses along with the choruses there needs to be what about a bridge do you like a bridge or a bridge yeah a mid-late sort of the same yeah all of that what you're saying is it needs strategy and planning

1:33:07Chris Hewitt:and my strategy and planning of this podcast has brought us to this point which is discussing the Sam Raimi ranking that we did four years ago I don't actually know who did that it was me Helen do you remember that of course it was you Ben yep And Dan Jolin. We were the four who were ranking Sam Raimi's movies. And the top 10 was, in reverse order, of course, at number 10, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. Number 9, what the fuck, The Evil Dead. At number 8, it is Army of Darkness. At number 7, what the fuck, it's Darkman. At number 6, it was Spider-Man. At number 5, A Simple Plan. At number 4, Drag Me to Hell.

1:33:48Chris Hewitt:At number 3, oh yeah, I definitely voted for this. The Quick and the Dead. At number two, Spider-Man 2. And at number one, the greatest movie of all time, Evil Dead 2. My question to you four is, does Send Help crash this part? Oh, yeah. I think it does. I think it's around like six or seven for me. What was it? What was around six, seven, eight? Six, seven, eight. Six, seven, eight. It was Spider-Man, Darkman, Army of Darkness. I don't know. I love this movie. I don't know that I love it more than any of those movies but I definitely love it more than I like it more than Army of Darkness maybe less than The Evil Dead what was the other one?

1:34:29Chris Hewitt:Multifersion Madness I think it's knocking Multifersion Madness it's definitely absolutely yeah that's not a question it's definitely knocking Multifersion Madness off of this it's so much fun he makes a cloak from the souls of the dead he has a fight with musical notes while he's possessing his own dead body that scene is great I will grant you that but the film I don't know guys I don't know Amon where does this rate for you in the Raimis have you seen all the Raimis for example do you want me to take you by the hand and lead you through a magical wonderland there are some films on that list I have not seen and I'm afraid of what will happen if I tell you which ones they are so come to me I know it's not Spiderman I know it's not Spiderman 2 it's the Evil Dead trilogy Amon have you not seen the Evil Dead trilogy I am excited to watch them for the first time very soon, in very short order.

1:35:24Chris Hewitt:They're very short. It will take you literally four and a half hours to watch all three. And prepare yourself for some wild tonal shifts. That's all I'm going to say. Knowing you as the scaredy cat of the pod, I think the first one is the only one you'd need some kind of. The first one's the only horror. The first one, yeah. And it's quite raw, tonally. I mean, it was a, yeah, they shot it. God, Rob, what age was Raimi? 21, 2021, something like that? Something disgusting like that. Disgusting, fucking disgusting. I'm sick of it. And they shot this for no money whatsoever in the Tennessee woods, and they were all freezing, and they used so much blood, fake blood, that they were sticking to the floors, and it was horrible.

1:36:07Chris Hewitt:And it's a very, very low budget, very cheaply made movie, but the filmmaking, invention, and gusto, and brifura on display is inarguable, I would say. Helen, I would say inarguable. I put it to you, it's inarguable. Sure. And then there's a bit of a plasticine. Yeah. And then Crime Wave. You're really selling me on this. Yeah. And then Evil Dead 2 is just pure visual storytelling from beginning to end. It is a man who I think at that point in his career, Crime Wave had not gone well before him. was not a good experience for him and had not been well received critically or commercially. And he was given the chance by Dino Di Laurentiis to make Evil Dead 2.

1:36:50Chris Hewitt:And I very strongly suspect he thought he was never going to make another movie after this. So he made all the movies at once. And it is sublime. Sublime. I had a screening of Evil Dead 2 as part of a stag do. Oh my God. Chris, you couldn't make it on the day. No. You came to my stag, but you came later. You missed the screen. So you could have seen Evil Dead 2 in the cinema. Is that really how you want me to enter this trilogy now? A hundred percent because it was amazing watching that in the room. Like, obviously, a lot of my friends like films, but also there are other people who don't like films as much as us, which is crazy to think.

1:37:26And watching it with that room of people and it feeling people discover in the room, like, oh, this is going to be funny. This is fun. Oh, I can laugh at this. And then as it went on and it gets funnier and funnier and crazier. Yeah. But also some great jump scares.

1:37:41Chris Hewitt:Oh, great. jump scares but it's not necessarily a horror it won't haunt you but there are some amazing amazing jump scares in it but at the same time it's a very very funny film and Bruce Campbell as Ash is the epitome of cool the epitome of motherfucking cool and also idiocy somehow both at once both at once he pulls it off immaculately despite only having one hand I am a Bruce Campbell fan obviously Spider-Man films he's in that but really the show that I know who's Cabo Mervous from is Burn Notice. I was about to say Burn Notice. Ash vs. Evil Dead. I thought you were going to say it. I've never seen those films but I thought I'd try Ash vs.

1:38:18Evil Dead.

1:38:21Chris Hewitt:I'm putting a sound to help above in my personal top 10 above Army of Darkness. That's where I'm putting it. But it's tough. That's a tough one. It's a tough one. It is a tough one for me. I love Simple Plan as well which is probably the most un-Ramey like movies of the ones of his movies that I love. You know, it's the only one you could look at and show to someone and go, who directed this? And they couldn't tell you it was Sam Raimi right away because he locks the camera down. It's very classical. It's a real thriller. It's character-based. But all the other ones, it's like a man who's inventing cinema as he goes, and I fucking love it.

1:39:00Chris Hewitt:And more power to his elbow. And please don't make it nine years before he comes back and does it again. All right. On that gushing note. Gushing, appropriate. for Sam Raimi catching I have puked deliberately all over this movie and indeed over the career of Samuel Marshall Ramey and now it's time to bring Arsene help support a special to an end all that remains is for me to say goodbye to my three colleagues of such lethal cunning goodbye Amon Mormon peace peace be unto you my friend whether it be here or on a desert island it's goodbye from Ben Travis goodbye imagine a crash zoom on my face legend has it he was written by the Dark Ones.

1:39:42Necronomicon ex mortis.

1:39:44Chris Hewitt:Roughly translated Book of the Dead. I do not understand these references. The last line, the last line of Evil Dead 2 is delivered by Sam Raimi himself. And it is, well, technically it's Bruce Campbell going, no, no. But it is, hail he who has come from the skies to deliver us from the terrors of the deadites. Hail. Hail. Hail. And then Bruce Campbell, this might be a spoiler for Evil Dead 2, but the camera pulls back. Oh my God, it's so fucking... It's got the greatest... It's the greatest movie ever. You'll love it. Goodbye, Helen. I believe there's a hero in all of us. He's a villain too. I love Henrietta from Evil Dead 2.

1:40:27Chris Hewitt:Oh, the prospect of Aunt May going, Dead by dawn. I'm dead by dawn. We've never done an Evil Dead 2 spoiler special. Holy fuck. Should we? Right now. Yeah. Helen, I'm on. Leave us. to whip the necronomicons out

1:40:46Chris Hewitt:groovy yes oh my god we gotta do that we have to do that anyway it's goodbye from you as well I am off to take Amon by the hand and lead him through the Evil Dead movies are you ready to take your first steps into a larger world let's do it I've got one word for you Amon Workshed thanks for listening see you next time bye bye

1:41:11你就Af specificityymn Work life life life life

1:41:33life life Thank you.