Stark-Spangled Banner (ft. guest, David Ayer)

23:14Chris Hewitt:yes I will stick with that do you want to see what you could have won? tell me in 2002 you could have won Sandra Bullock and Hugh Grant getting it on in two weeks notice oh I mean it is a classic two weeks two weeks two weeks yeah it's a classic it's not quite the Godfather but it's close or you could have won 2019 The Rise of Skywalker excuse me I've just been looking and doing my own research and everything everywhere all at once and Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown both came out on my birthday. They were not on famousbirthdays.com? This is some bullshit. I call mistakes. Also, what territory are we taking as gospel?

23:52Is this a specific UK release date? Are we taking the American release date? What are we? Look, I just do what

23:58Chris Hewitt:famousbirthdays.com tells me. You just do? I don't have any agency in this myself. I understand. I just ask the AI and the AI tells me and then I step but the traffic, that's how it works. I mean, that's just the future in a nutshell, isn't it? Really? Everything everywhere all at once? Okay, let's have a look. Let's research this. This is live researching. Oh, okay, it's not looking good for you. Release date, 13th of May, but that's the UK. That's the UK. All right, okay. Release dates. Ah. It was limited US release. Oh, she's right, you know. Mars 25th. Just saying. Okay, you taking that one?

24:35Yeah. well women on the verge let's mix it up

24:39Chris Hewitt:Helen's going for women on the verge of a nervous breakdown James is going for the godfather part 2 I am apparently going for prisoners so what an incredible triple bill that is going to make at our next birthday which is going to be yours Jimbo it is yeah Grace when's your birthday May 28th alright hang on two seconds films released May 28th now you're right in the middle of summer season. Yes. So this might mean that you have a nice bunch of blockbusters. All right. Films released May 28 according to famousbirthdays.com are include Cruella. Solid. Yeah. Yeah, I stick with that one. That's a good movie.

25:21Chris Hewitt:Are you sticking immediately? That was a very quick quiz. No, that's it. We're over. We have A Quiet Place Part 2. We have Raising Helen. Hey. Hey. Hey. We have Dog Gone Trouble, which I've never seen nor heard of but my god I want to see a judge and then poster we also have Soul Plane Soul Plane is one of the worst movies I've ever seen in my life so I would advise for you not to choose Soul Plane Rocky 3 was released in 1982 Edge of Tomorrow Edge of Tomorrow so good Cliffhanger Stallone loves this date Cliffhanger 1993 Anthony Hopkins and King Lear was released in 2018 which is lovely and that's it I am going to go Cruella to be perfectly honest.

26:05I did know quite a few of them, have seen quite a few of them, but I love Amstone.

26:08Chris Hewitt:It's a good movie. Yeah. I've got to sit with it. All right. Good stuff. Are we done? I think we are. We are done. All right. Fantastic. Thank you all for your wonderful birthday wishes and indeed for your birthday questions. I promise I am not going to milk it any further, at least not for another 10 years. Will I still be alive in 10 years, do you think? 50-50. Right about now, it's 50-50. Oh my God. Well, you get not in the fresh air and playing golf, so hopefully that'll help. I am. I am. It really helps with the shooting pains up and down my left arm. All right. Should we take a little break and then we will come back and talk about movie news?

26:45Chris Hewitt:All right. So, Hollywood, you are on notice. You have 30 seconds to generate some movie news. Otherwise, we're just going to be staring at each other for a good 10 minutes. Back in a second. Bye-bye. Okay, folks, we are back, back, back. And it is time to dig deep into this week's movie news. We are recording this very early on a Wednesday for a number of reasons. So there's still time for Hollywood to really give us some proper movie news, but there have been some trailers to talk about. Where do you want to start? Should we start with the further misadventures of Cliff Booth as the Dave Adventure Brad Pitt follow-up to Quentin Tarantino's Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is now officially called.

27:27Chris Hewitt:It has its first proper trailer on. It's coming out on Netflix. but before that it's an IMAX in November I think and the first proper trailer came out this week what did we make of it could you make out anything first of all it's very very dark very very very dark visually dark visually I mean it's not like it's not really grim it's all about sort of the bleakness of existence and the absurdity of the cosmos no it's just it's just very very physically dark dark it's basically a black screen with sounds yeah I think it's going to be dark as well but with some levity in there but yeah I would hope so, because Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was very funny, along with all the murder and murder and killing and such.

28:07So, yeah. Look, I loved Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. It's maybe my favorite Tarantino film. Wow, okay. That's a big claim. I said favorite, so it's... And you literally wrote the book on this subject? I did. So she must be correct. Out now. No, there's no correct favorite, but it's fine. We can all think what we want. but yeah I'm kind of you know I'm protective a little bit maybe more of these characters than I would be otherwise can I make a confession although character really seems to be the only one yeah there is one Quentin Tarantino film I haven't seen is it Once Upon a Time in Hollywood it is Once Upon a Time in Hollywood how I was not here on the podcast when we reviewed it what is wrong with you and I missed the screening and I have just never caught up with it you gotta go see it I know it's like it's gnawing at me and it's really sunny it's really sunny it's like the opposite like visually of this film

28:59Chris Hewitt:So you don't know Cliff Booth? No, I don't. You haven't seen that Oscar-winning performance from Brad Pitt, this iconic character that he created. And you... Okay, well, he survives. Spoiler for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. In case you're wondering. Yeah. Wow. I know, I really, really... Well, I mean, I have to watch it before this comes out. Why did you not get round to it? I don't... Because there's a lot of television to watch for the Pilot TV podcast and, you know, time is limited. Grace, I'm putting your microphone up. You can tell James is an idiot. You are not an idiot. Have you seen Once Upon a Time in Hollywood?

29:29I did. I loved it. Not my favorite Tarantino, though. You can tell him he's an idiot. It's fine. What's your favorite Tarantino? I'm going to go Reservoir Dogs. I definitely watched it at a way too young age. I'm not surprised. My dad's a massive Tarantino fan. That's my second favorite. I mean, the correct answer was Pulp Fiction, but it's fine. No, that's just the best. That's a different question. That's the answer to a different question.

29:49Chris Hewitt:Oh, she's got me there. Where do you stand on Jackie Brown? That is the thinking person's favorite, best Tarantino. Yeah, it is. Do you know what? I've only seen Jackie Brown once and I had a thunderous headache when I went to see it. So I think that very much coloured my appreciation of it. Somebody's due for a Tarantino rewatch. Perhaps you can read Helen's book. Perhaps I could. To prepare myself. And then rewatch Jackie Brown. I recently read Rum Punch, which is the Elmore Leonard book that Jackie Brown is adapted from. It's actually very faithful. But yes, yes, yes. But yeah, there's more of a synopsis for this film.

30:24Do you remember we were talking about the further misadventures of Cliff Booth? So apparently he gets a call from a talent agent, Karen Crosby. That's Elizabeth Debicki's character. And she's calling on behalf of her client TV star, Charlie Peters, which is the Scott Cann character. He's known for doing his own stunts. So why is he calling Cliff? But there's obviously something going on. So Charlie's wife is played by Carla Gugino. There's a football player turned actor star, which is Yahya Abdul-Mateen II. second and then there's gangsters and then there's some shit going down.

30:59Chris Hewitt:Check it out Jimbo Once Upon Time in Hollywood is on Prime Video. Well I've decided that I'm only ever going to watch nine of Quentin Tarantino's ten films so I have to choose very very carefully. Of course technically he's already made ten. Yeah exactly. Depending on how you count him. Yeah. I mean how do you count him? I count him by the number of films he's made. Which is controversial. You fool. I know. You're rude. Reservoir Dogs, right? Yeah. Pulpity Fictions. Jackie Brown. What about the quarter of a film for Four Rooms? We don't count that. Surely counts a quarter. We don't count as a quarter.

31:34No. And then you put that with the half of, you know, with Death Proof.

31:39Chris Hewitt:All right. But Death Proof is its own film. It is technically, yeah. So Death Proof, we have Inglourious Bastards. We have Django Unchained. We have Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I've gone out of order. so this is really that's really messed up but what else do we have Hateful Eight Hateful Eight and then two Kill Bills that's already ten yes it is but only a fool would count Kill Bill as two and I've long maintained if he if he actually does what he's talked about sometimes and does a Kill Bill part three he could still count that as one how and make it make it would you count all three Lord of the Rings films as one film No, I wouldn't because I'm not an idiot.

32:25I'm just saying clearly different rules apply in Tarantino's head.

32:27Chris Hewitt:Are you saying that Quentin Tarantino is the subject of your best-selling book? What's it called? A Quentin Tarantino Dictionary. First of Hollywood? Oh, yeah. Have you not read the book B is for Bellend? True story. This looks good, but I'd like them to lighten it up a little bit because obviously Fincher likes his darkness, doesn't he? Darkness, yes. And I don't like his hair as much this time. David Fincher's hair no Cliff Booth's hair oh you don't like Cliff why because it's not as cute I'm just saying but he's an older gentleman that's no excuse I presume he's in his 50s now I wish I knew what I felt like and he's probably you know getting up four times in the middle of the night for a piss he doesn't have time to he's got longer hair none of that makes sense yeah because he's too busy pissing in his hair so he has to let his hair grow that's what happens I don't think that's how that's what happens life works that's what happens Tell him how my life is working.

33:23Carry on. All right. So also in the new trailers category, we've seen the trailer for, I think it came out at the very end of last week, but we didn't cover it on last week's podcast, for Wife and Dog. That's right.

33:37Chris Hewitt:We were talking about how prolific Guy Ritchie was and literally about an hour after the podcast dropped. He released the trailer for the new film. Yes, because he's waiting. He personally released the trailer for his new film, Wife and Dog. and again we were talking about how prolific he is and how he's got this kind of repertory company of incredible actors and a lot of them are in this movie so you have Rosamund Pike who's in there he's only started working with her in The Grey you have Patti Considine with whom he works on Mobland of course but a couple of newcomers I would say to the guy Richie Cinematic Universe and this looks like a much darker proposition than the capers he's been crapping out over the last few years.

34:20Chris Hewitt:This looks like a really, really dark marital thriller. Yeah, it's like a succession wrangling thriller with Benedict Cumberbatch as a hitman. Coming back from the dead to get revenge or something? Possibly. I thought. He's definitely annoyed. He doesn't seem happy. Because he sticks some sort of pool cue in someone's eye. That's generally not a sign of a well-adjusted person. That's not a sign that he's in a good mood, no. So what do we know about this? We know that Cosmo Jarvis is in it as well. James Norton. It's a good bunch of people. I don't really know what else is going on. It seems to be...

34:53Bloody bloody Anthony Hopkins. Yes, yes. And he seems to be Rosamund Pike's character's dad. The patriarch. There's some kind of patriarchy there. But yeah, God knows, honestly. No idea.

35:04Chris Hewitt:Looks good, though. It does look good. Yeah, it looks fun. Very cool. Looks like it's got some edge to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very much so. So that is exciting. Guy Ritchie. And presumably he's already made another four films since finishing that one. Wife and Dog. Terrible title though. Terrible title. It is a terrible title. But it looks like it might be his darkest film since I'm going to say Wrath of Man. Gosh. Do you remember that film? Yes. Not really. It's good. Good film. It is good. Good film. There's also a trailer for Prima Facie which is the... Thank you. I did not know how to pronounce that.

35:37Which is the adaptation of the like massively award-winning play. So Jodie Comer played it on stage in London then on Broadway then did a tour around the UK earlier this year, knocked it out of the park. Like, it's an insane, incredible performance. I think you can still get it on NT Live or look out for NT Live screenings of it. But now Cynthia Revo is taking that role in the film adaptation from Susanna White, directing. And it's basically about a barrister, a criminal barrister who spends at least part of her time defending people, and sometimes prosecuting, but mostly defending people accused of, sexual assault and rape, and then has to experience that process herself after she goes through that ordeal herself.

36:24So it's really about seeing the law from two sides and from, you know, cold-blooded, detached advocates to victim, essentially, and trying to reconcile that. For the very small demographic of our listeners who don't speak fluent Latin, what does it actually mean? On the face of it, like at first glance kind of a thing, but it's not, terribly connected to the substance of the play. It's just a common legal Latin term. Same way that the writer Susie Miller's follow-up play Interaglia, which starred Rosamund Pike on stage. Interaglia isn't particularly relevant to the subject of that play either, I would say.

37:03Is mens rea also Latin? Yes, it is. What does that mean? Guilty mind.

37:08Chris Hewitt:Oh, that's you. Definitely, Chris. This is interesting. so John Lugosamo has had a bit of a career bump off the back of the Odyssey in which of course he is excellent in that movie potential Best Supporting Actor nomination in his future potential you never know and that bump has led him to play the bad guy in Miami Vice 85 which of course will star Austin Butler and Michael B. Jordan as Crockett and Tubbs and Joe Kosinski's directing that. Dan Gilroy has written it and it's going to be out May 19th, 2028. So looks like Lucas Amo is going to be the bad guy. Benny Blanco from the Bronx, presumably.

37:55Okay. Sounds good.

37:58Chris Hewitt:It won't be Benny Blanco from the Bronx. No, I wouldn't imagine that. But yeah. Are you excited about that? Yeah, I guess. That's a no? Okay. I don't have any particular affection for the show or the previous film. maybe if I showed you an episode at my birthday maybe if you had yeah on the big screen but I am you know those are very good actors so that's exciting yeah alright Jimbo you excited about this as a TV person did you like Miami Vice do you know what I never really I mean I've seen Miami Vice but I'm more familiar with the Jan Hammer soundtrack than I ever was with the actual show I think it was a little too young to watch it in its heyday but the soundtrack kind of persisted did it yeah yes it did Do you ever dress like Crockett and Tubbs?

38:43Chris Hewitt:Not intentionally. Ross and Shannon. But it was the 80s, so I can't be held responsible. Okay. I did at one point walk around in white trousers and a shirt. In my defense, I was very, very small. Okay. We were talking about Brad Pitt earlier on. We are, and we should say, this is wild news. So World War Z, the sequel. So World War, well, there is no letter after Z. World War A? I don't know. World War Z equal. World War Z equal, very good. It seems to be going ahead. Now, bear in mind, Well, War Z was, what, 2013? Which was, check notes, a long, long, long time ago. This was Mark Forster's film about the zombie apocalypse, based on the Max Brooks novel, an oral history to the zombie apocalypse, which I have read, and is not a lot like the film.

39:24It's fantastic. It's really, really good. It is really, really good. But this sequel has been kicking around for ages, wasn't it? J.A. Bayona was going to do it at one point, wasn't he? And then, who was after that? Well, David Fincher was the first person. David Fincher. He was the first cab on the rank,

39:35Chris Hewitt:and I think they actually got as close, they got very, very close into pre-production, I think. or very deep in the pre-production on that one. And then the plug got pulled, and then Bayona was one of the directors linked with it. And then I thought it had just gone away. But Edward Berger is doing it now. And Brad Pitt is back. That's a tasty burger. It is a tasty burger. This feels... I mean, it's weird, isn't it? Because this didn't go massively over budget, and it was going to be a massive flop, but actually it did quite well. Yeah, and it's fine. So basically, they didn't like the ending, and they reshot the ending, and they did a much sort of smaller and kind of more intimate way to finish the film to kind of get it across the line and get something that everybody was happy about.

40:14And it wasn't a bad film. It was one of the loosest adaptations of a good book I have ever read in my entire life or ever seen in my entire life. Literally, there are like four elements taken from the book and one of them is the title.

40:30Chris Hewitt:His character, Jerry Lane, if I remember rightly, isn't in the book. No, there is somebody that people are talking to about their experiences during the zombie apocalypse, you can kind of extrapolate that he might exist, but he is not the guy who's going through all of these things necessarily. It's such a weird adaptation. It is so, so, so weird. And I really cannot stress enough how loose it was. And it has so little to do with the book. And there is so much great material there. So many heartbreaking stories that you could do something with. There's an incredible audio book of it with like an all-star cast, like each person reading one of these first-hand accounts from the zombie apocalypse.

41:13Absolutely astonishing. Like who? Oh, but I don't remember all the names, but like big A-list names, basically doing this. I'm going to look it up. Okay, I'm going to look it up, fine.

41:25Chris Hewitt:I'll look it up first. What were said, or C, if you're American, but you're wrong, audiobook cast. Okay, Martin Scorsese, Alan Alda Mark Hamill Simon Pegg Nathan Fillion John Turturro Carl Reiner Rob Reiner Alfred Molina Jerry Ryan F. Murray Abram etc. So I couldn't get anyone good. You are going straight to hell for that remark. Now how does that compare to the cast of the audible Bram Stoker's Draculaure audiobook which is coming out soon or has come out or is about to come out. you have Jonathan Bailey as Dracula so I'd love to have the conversations he had about Dracula with Cynthia Erivo on the set of Wicked because she also starred recently in the version of Dracula that we saw and I know it's Dracula Ella Purnell as Mina Amy Lou Wood as Lucy Louis Partridge as Jonathan Harker David Johnson as Dr.

42:28Chris Hewitt:Seward Johnny Flynn as Renfield Leslie Manville as Mrs. Westenra and now this is the left field one, Maggie Gyllenhaal, as Van Helsing. Well, she's clearly got Dutch roots, so that all hangs together. Don't she clearly have Dutch roots? Yeah, Gyllenhaal. That's Swedish, isn't it? Not Dutch. Oh, I don't know. They're all the same to me. You take that back right now. I apologize. I apologize. They're all the same to you? Oh my God. We all know that if you are from Holland, you sound like Dutch Schaefer from Predator. Like, that's just a fact. that's why he's called Dutch because of his strong Dutch accent because he's Alan isn't he Alan Dutch Schaefer he's Alan Schaefer speaking of things oh sorry we haven't finished have we so how does that cast in Dracula compared to World War Said audiobook I think that both good you said all star cast of A-listers and then you read like one A-listers excuse me it was a good cast I read many A-listers but their A-list status had waxed and waned across time because many of them had been around for quite some time.

43:36Chris Hewitt:Yes. I'm sorry. No, that was a better list. They've got more Oscars between my list than your list. You should have one. Okay, do they? Yes. Do they? Pretty sure, actually. But you're not so sure now. Pretty sure. Scorsese. Just Scorsese being in the cast alone. Just Scorsese really helps. Scorsese has more Oscars than Ella Purnell. Alan Alda, I mentioned. Yes. I think that's fair to say. Yeah, I think that's fair. I don't think she'd argue with us or be upset by that. But do you think when all is said and done, 50 years from now who's going to have the most Oscars I still think my money's still on the World War Z because I think David Johnson's going to win four of the fuckers that's a good call but no I'm sticking with mine alright okay we shall see meet back here in 50 years time yeah let's do that shouldn't be a problem in the studio speaking of things that aren't quite Dracula okay brings me by the way can I just say I'm excited about this I think it's going to be good World War Z 2 yes please and I can't wait for the further advances of Jerry Lane.

44:30Chris Hewitt:Just wanted to get that out there because we hadn't actually finished talking about it and now we have. Great. So speaking of things that aren't quite Dracula it brings me naturally to Robert Eggers. Of course. Director of the most recent Nosferatu. And the upcoming Verwolf. And the upcoming Verwolf. Who is now planning on directing an adaptation of Romeo and Juliet. Now our story and indeed the story that I think we were quoting has said that this is going to be an old English. Of course that would be incorrect. I mean even leaving aside the fact that they are actually Italians. They would be speaking, I believe, early modern English, which is different from old English.

45:07Is this only if it takes place in the time period in which it was originally set? I believe so. Because for all we know, they're going back, back, back, back, back to actual old English times. But why would they do that when it was set in 14th century Italy? I mean, why indeed? It doesn't make any sense, James. It's Robert Eggers. That's true. He ploughs his own furrow. Yes, and he only uses like an authentic old breed oxen and a period appropriate plow to do it. Yes, he does. Yes. Anyway, this is an interesting direction for him. And I have no idea what he's going to do with that.

45:43Chris Hewitt:Hey, I've got something. This isn't Shakespeare. If anything, it's better because it's Marvel. Daredevil Born Again is apparently going to end with season three, which is the next season. How is that better? Marvel is better than Shakespeare. Yeah, but you're acting like it's good that it's being cancelled. It's just a very weird thing. Oh, it's not cancelled. It's ending. It's not cancelled, it's ending. I'm just saying. It's going to live on a farm upstate. With Hawkeye. Yeah. And Kate Bishop and the Eternals. And all their friends. Aww. I mean, yeah, okay. Well, I'm sorry to hear it, I guess.

46:22I don't know. I just, you know, that first series could have been an email. It could have been a lot shorter. It could have been. I'm in two minds about this I think a lot of it depends on what happens with the third season because I feel like I am much as I think Vincent D 'Onofrio is fantastic I'm a little kingpinned out at this point and I feel like they need to do something different so we'll see what happens I don't think they're going to I don't either but with that in mind maybe it's not a bad thing for it to go out on a high assuming it is a high and the third season isn't terrible

46:51Chris Hewitt:it's going to be interesting obviously the showrunner is Dario Scardopane who took over the first season after it was in creative tumult I think it's fair to say it was retooled yeah and they brought him in he was he was someone who was a bit of a finesser finesser very good and yes I engineered that just so I could do that it was worth it thank you it was 100 % worth it tortured as it may have been it was worth it new issue vampires in sale it is that's exciting it's an exciting time Grace you gonna buy it? yes absolutely excellent no one's given you a copy in the office this is appalling we don't have any I think they mentioned they might do so yeah we don't have any okay alright unless we're unless we're lying lying lying oh because it's the chronicles of Narnia it's good yeah oh no it's Narnia business what's on the cover this month because it is yes it is Narnia the magician's nephew Greta Gerwig's adaptation of the chronologically first, but not first.

48:00Chris Hewitt:When did he write it? Written first. He wrote it sixth, I think. C.S. Lewis, this is, of course. He wrote the Narnia books. This is the first in the series, but I think he wrote it sixth, right? Something like that. It's retcon-tacular. Yes. So this is the creation of Narnia. Yeah. But we will be doing a deep dive with Empire editor Nick DeSimleon into that issue, into the story of how that cover feature came about and many, many more things besides that'll be up very, very soon for Empire Plus subscribers. If you don't subscribe to Empire Plus, subscribe to Empire Plus. It is amazing. James, how do they do that?

48:33Go to empire.supportingcast.fm and you can subscribe to that or the Varsity Superior Pilot Plus in the exact same place.

48:42Chris Hewitt:Or you can sign up to both. Although, why the hell you'd want to do that? I have no idea. But you can do all of those things and you get loads and loads of stuff. coming your way every month for Empire Plus subscribers, which is excellent. But the new issue is on sale right now. All good, evil, and virtual news agents go along, pick up a copy. Thank you very much indeed. Shall we have a guest? Let's. Let's do it. Shall we have David Ayer? Cool. Who has had a fascinating career in Hollywood. David Ayer, of course, started off as a writer. He was a guy who wrote Training Day back in 2001 for Antoine Fuqua and then quickly became a director.

49:18Chris Hewitt:Directed things like Harsh Times with Christian Bale and Street Kings with Keanu Reeves and End of Watch with Jake Gyllenhaal, you know, from Sweden.

49:29Chris Hewitt:And Michael Pena, a really good film that had a bit of a wobble, I would say, it's fair to say, with his blockbuster period. A few wobbles. Suicide Squad, Bright, things like that. But recently, he has been prolific again as a director, making the likes of The Beekeeper with Jason Statham and then A Working Man with Jason Statham. And now he is back, back, back for this third movie in three years. It is called Heart of the Beast and it sees him re-team with Brad Pitt. This is like a Brad Pitt podcast. It really is. We've talked about Brad Pitt a lot this week. William Bradley Pitt for the first time since 2014's excellent World War II thriller Fury.

50:13Chris Hewitt:And this also sees him play a soldier, an ex-soldier in this case, a guy called James Belmont, who gets in over his head and out of his plane in the Alaskan wilderness and has to battle for survival. But he's not alone. Oh, no. Is he Hellspells? No, he has a very good dog. He has a very good dog called Odin by his side. And the two of them have to keep each other alive while being beset on all sides by all kinds of things. Wolves, roaring rivers. J.K. Simmons. jk simmons it's all there in this movie we'll be talking about it in a few seconds in the reviews section of the show but i sat down on zoom with david ayer just a couple of days ago after seeing heart of the beast and we had a good old natter about this and a great many things do please enjoy david ayer welcome sir how are you i'm good thank you for having me where are you in the world at the moment i am in san sebastian spain or the film festival very Very, very nice.

51:18Chris Hewitt:A long way from New Zealand, of course, where you shot this movie. Very long way. Do you miss New Zealand? I do. I really do. I was there about six months. Stayed in Queenstown and Glen Orkey. Lovely country, lovely people. I miss the food and the fresh air. Was it somewhere that you wanted to, you know, in terms of it standing in for Alaska, where the movie is set? Did you explore shooting in Alaska at any point as well? I did, absolutely. There's no film infrastructure there. There's no equipment. There's no crews. And the weather is pretty severe a lot of the time and unpredictable. uh new zealand weather gave us a run for our money for sure but you know great history of cinema there world-class crews um you know peter jackson's work really built up the industry there and we were able to take advantage of so much uh capability in in new zealand and obviously there's tons and tons of location work.

52:36Chris Hewitt:There are stunning, stunning shots of Alaskan landscapes in this movie. Are those actually Alaskan landscapes, or are the New Zealand pretending to be Alaska? It is New Zealand standing in for Alaska. But I had a brilliant production designer, Greg Barry, who understood Alaska and managed to find this geology and the trees and the land that matched perfectly. You really can't tell. There's people, a lot of people think that it was shot in Alaska. So secret's out now. I was wondering maybe you'd shot obviously the bulk of it in New Zealand, but maybe got some second unit stuff of the plane flying overhead, et cetera, et cetera.

53:22Chris Hewitt:But that's all New Zealand. That's all New Zealand. The Southern Alps. I mean, beautiful glaciers there. really allowed us to get into places no one had been before. Did a lot of helicopter scouting, did a lot of research. The land itself is a character in the film, and it's a progressive story that unfolds visually, and it's absolutely stunning. I mean, we operated a bit like a documentary crew, and you know when the light changed when the sun changed we just spin the camera around and shoot that instead i was wondering about just kind of how arduous the the shoot was you know there there are locations in the film there are moments in the film where i got a kind of revenant feeling i i felt sorry for you guys because you were you were in the middle of it uh i imagine early starts cold days, wet days, a lot of trekking up, very, very steep, slippery inclines, that sort of thing?

54:28There was all of the above, absolutely. The toughest physical shoot I've ever done, I operate camera, I had a camera on my shoulder the whole time. And we're running up hills, running down hills uh the mud ankle deep mud rain lightning and for all of that then the sun comes out and the clouds shift and the light had almost a liquid quality to it um so for as arduous as it was being inside of the world in that way really gave us some unexpected magic i mean more than anything. Poor Brad, uh, you know, huge international star. He could be off in a trailer having a latte and he's sitting there on a log, miserable, shivering between setups, which, which did make us work a bit faster to kind of help him out.

55:29Chris Hewitt:You said there that it was the toughest shoot of your career. Uh, what was the second toughest? What was, what did this replace for you? Fury. Okay. So anytime you get together with Brad Pitt, basically. Yeah, it seems to be a theme. Maybe we'll do a quiet movie set in Manhattan one day. That's not going to happen. What was tough about Fury? And logistics, we're operating around real military equipment, real tanks, mud, the coordination. Again, the cold, damp seeping in every day. We shot a lot of it in November and December, south of London. and there was a real sense of the war, a real sense of stamina and just pushing through.

56:23You know, in that case, Brad had a tank full of other actors to wrangle and keep under control. In this case, he had himself and a dog. So he was much more exposed on this film.

56:39Chris Hewitt:Yeah, I mean, there are stories of Fury that I think are already legend. As you say, you have a bunch of actors in that tank, and shall we say some of them might be a bit combustible, and that maybe leads to some interesting collisions. Yeah, I think when you lock anybody in a small steel box for weeks and weeks on end, they can get a bit stir-crazy. Yeah, that'll do it. But this time, this screenplay comes your way, and you're reading it, and you go, okay, there are essentially two characters in this movie. There are a couple of other minor supporting roles, one of which, of course, is played by J.K.

57:16Chris Hewitt:Simmons. Holy shit, that's amazing. And you were like, okay, brilliant. This is it. And then do you immediately think, Brad, as you're reading the screenplay? Absolutely. I read the script, and it brought me to my niece, honestly. There's something so elegant and simple and poetic about it. and I knew I needed a real actor. And for as big of a star Brad is at his base, his foundation level, he's an actor. I'm not going to say method because between shots, you actually get to talk to Brad Pitt, but there's something very intricate about how he builds a performance, almost like a watchmaker, every detail.

58:03and he read the script and had the same reaction I did, which was a lot of crying. And he's the only actor, I imagine for the role, the only actor that read the script.

58:14Chris Hewitt:I mean, the lot of crying thing is absolutely spot on. There was a lot of crying in my screening yesterday. David, you son of a bitch, you got me?

58:26Good, good. No, it's deeply emotional. It's a bit of an emotional symphony. But I think the magic of the film is it sets you down gently.

58:38Chris Hewitt:Yeah, it does. And there's something really, really interesting about the way you approach the relationship between James and Odin and the way that you approach Odin as a character. Odin, of course, played by four dogs. That's revealed at the end of the movie. But what you do with a dog is really, really interesting. and you don't, you know, he's a combat dog. You don't cutes him up. He doesn't do cute movie dog things. He's just a dog, a really smart and very, very capable dog. And you allow the audience to fall in love with him, I think, without any tricks. Was that important for you to do that?

59:20Absolutely. Yeah, you're right. I didn't even think about that. There is sort of dog tropes you see in film is an attempt to endear the dog. This one was more subtle. It was about a character, creating a character, creating a history, creating a sense of almost like an old marriage. And the way Brad came in early, trained with Uber, who basically played Odin. The other dogs were pretty much stunt doubles, connected, bonded with Uber. And then on set, the challenge was finding those moments of connection because at the end of the day, he's a dog and bees are very interesting and fun to chase about.

1:00:03There's a lot of neat things to smell in the New Zealand wilderness. Brad's patience was immense in staying in character, staying focused, no matter what the dog would do. But peeling back the onion of their history and their relationship as a storytelling mechanic was a lot easier on paper. Let me say that.

1:00:28Chris Hewitt:It's really interesting as well because Odin in the movie is a combat dog and you have this fascinating notion that Odin suffers from PTSD. And anyone who's owned a dog will know that dogs dream. They have nightmares. They can palpitate and whimper in their sleep just as much as we can. But I've never really seen it in the movies before, and I've never really seen, you know, you're trying to give a voice to this dog's inner life and thoughts. At the same time, that's a hell of a challenge. Yeah, that's exactly it, is the dog has an inner life. The dog has had a history, has had this incredible relationship.

1:01:12He's gone to war with his best friend and been asked to do these incredible things that have left him haunted the same as James and how they mirror each other. And you learn about one character by showing the other character. so as a storytelling mechanic as um as drama i just gotta say i'm just really glad it worked because it's so subtle and normally i do these larger cast ensemble dramatic action films and this one it's such a fine note to sustain did you have moments when uber would would get distracted

1:02:01Chris Hewitt:in the middle of scenes and would go off and improvise. So I found my biggest job as director was knowing when I had it. We didn't have a lot of time and we had to move quickly, you know, loading in, setting up in the wilderness, knowing you have to pack out and you have a limited amount of light really forced me to be economical in the photography. and the crew would kind of be losing their minds because the dog's running around. But I'm looking at the camera. I have a camera on my shoulder. I'm looking through the eyepiece and I would see these moments of magic and make a mental note and just know that I had it.

1:02:48Not every shot had to be perfect. Not every shot had to have perfect blocking. So it was really trusting myself to know when I had the shot.

1:02:58Chris Hewitt:And what about Brad? I mean, obviously you've worked with him in the past. You guys, I imagine, have some sort of shorthand as well. But what's the key to getting a performance out of Brad Pitt? Do you have a Brad Pitt trainer off set with some fresh meat? just when he does a good job yeah there's someone holding a bit of chicken off off camera to keep him under there no i mean it it's he's meticulous um so much of it came in in prep um yeah brought in experts uh from the armed forces a survival expert uh friend of mine uh sean who retired from a very intense Navy special missions unit, who was also a medic.

1:03:44The truth comes from the detail. So I think, Brad, knowing how to start a fire for real, knowing how to move through the wilderness, knowing how to use a compass, knowing how to use whatever he had for first aid and self-rescue, those built confidence in him that then allowed him to bring this intricate, vulnerable performance. I mean, he tells the story with his eyes. I've never seen that before.

1:04:17Chris Hewitt:It feels like one of those classic examples where you hear stories all the time of Mel Gibson ripping lines out the script for Mad Max 2, etc, etc. Clint Eastwood doesn't say much in the good, the bad, and the ugly, and that sort of thing. But it also feels to me like that this was that, but also wasn't that. Because again, dog owners will know that you have to focalise with your dog. You have to talk to your dog constantly. So when it comes to James, he's a man of few words, but he also has to keep including Odin in the conversation as well to communicate to Odin. Was that an interesting dichotomy for you?

1:04:56Yeah, absolutely. Again, I love dialogue. I love fast-paced dialogue. And this is very austeric, very simple. So every word carries weight. Everything is load-bearing. Everything has meaning. And then as important as what's said is what isn't said. And that sense of presence and connection and keeping that alive uh it taught me a lot about filmmaking i think i learned more about filmmaking from this than everything else i've done combined um you know i studied um wilderness literature i studied um you know old masters paintings blocking and composition and why does an image have emotional impact?

1:05:46How can an image be narrative when almost nothing is happening? It's a very, very beautiful experience.

1:05:57Chris Hewitt:I just want to pick up on what you said there about, you know, this being the kind of the apex of your time as a director. And you've been directing now for over 20 years. But there's also a sense that in the last, you know, few years, you've become prolific, really, really prolific is that a deliberate thing if you deliberately accelerated your schedule as a director i i love being on set i mean that's that's my happy place and also i think my relationship and understanding of the audience is a bit different i think in the past maybe i made film a little more for me and now I want to make films for the audience for both of us really and honestly I feel like I'm only finally learning what it means to direct and what the job is and what the craft is it's it's an immense journeyman process um it's you're chasing something you can't catch harsh times for example is 2005 that's over 20 years ago what was david ayer like as a director back then if you look back now do you think oh there's so much i didn't know i didn't know anything i mean i remember the first day on set where um you know i had a very strong cinematographer on that and and the first time i told him where to put the camera uh you could have heard a pin drop um the most terrifying part of a director in the beginning was having a crew staring at you waiting to make decisions and you don't know what the decision is you don't know this is what i need to be focused on versus something else and now it's incredibly intuitive um you know i just walk on set point give me the camera here give me this lens give me the other camera here um give me some light here um i don't even think about it which is fascinating to me because these technical things that would have me frozen with a kind of stage fright starting out is something i don't even think about now but it's fascinating because in a very very short space of time.

1:08:24Chris Hewitt:I mean, I guess, what, seven years after Harsh Times, though? But, you know, your third film was End of Watch. That was such an interesting technical challenge as well, because of the way you chose to shoot that. It's not a found footage movie necessarily, but you're shooting in that oeuvre, I guess. And that seems like a huge leap already to take, you know, from the likes of Harsh Times and Street Kings going into that. Absolutely. It was ahead of its time. It showed police officers wearing cameras, which wasn't adopted back then. And to come up with the technical solutions, how to take a digital camera, rehouse it, add a follow focus with a PL mount so you can get proper shots in photography.

1:09:14uh it was an unbelievable technical challenge and i believe we used seven seven different camera bodies types of cameras so just even to integrate all that into a single timeline so you can do a di and do the color timing um it was an immense amount of work uh every detail had to be correct um i learned a lot from that one too because it's supposed to be so naturalistic so a lot of the habits i had learned previously i had to had to break uh that's what i'm really proud of and the biggest compliment i get is from other directors who who will use it as a study piece david ayer it's been a pleasure thanks so much for your time okay that was david ayer

1:10:02Chris Hewitt:director of heart of the beast and that's where we're going to start off this week's reviews section folks but we will say that there is a big film in cinemas this week that we have not seen except we have but we haven't not yet anyway because we've seen it loads it's Avengers Endgame except it's being re-released in cinemas with depending on apparently who you listen to or where you go to to see it anywhere between four to six minutes of additional footage which may or may not be old footage that they put back into the movie that they didn't use first time around the Rooster Brothers or it may be footage that somehow pertains to Doomsday.

1:10:39Chris Hewitt:Maybe it's both. Maybe. Who knows? Anyway, they're not showing it to anyone but the punters. The paying punters. Scum. Subhuman scum. So I will be assuming the aspect of a norm and going to see it on Friday. Are you coming too, Hellspells? Yeah, sure. Why not? Yeah. And we'll go and see it and we'll talk about it on next week's podcast and who knows, we may even do a four-hour spoiler special. I don't know. It seems the sort of thing that we do. I'm very excited. Are you excited about Avengers Endgame Encore? Or I think as they call it at Marvel, Avengers, there's more, or ATM for short, because it's a big old cash grab.

1:11:18Chris Hewitt:Are we excited? It really is a big old cash grab, isn't it? No, it's pivotal. It is crucial to my understanding and appreciation of Avengers Doomsday. I enormously want to go and see it. Enormously. Yeah? What are you doing on Friday? Well, this was the plan. This is the plan. we should all go and see it together. We just have to sync up our schedules which is proving more challenging than we had thought. But I would like to see it and also at IMAX because my understanding is there's more. I mean literally more because the screen is bigger but also more. And yes, I would very much like to see Endgame again in IMAX.

1:11:48Chris Hewitt:Thank you very much. I want to see it in Infinity Vision because I want to find out what Infinity Vision is. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. But that's exciting. So we won't be reviewing Avengers Endgame Encore on this week's show. We'll talk about it on the next week's show. I don't know how long it's running for. in cinemas. Like, does this money count towards its overall box office total? Even though it's a different film with a different title? I would suspect so, yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's exciting. So this might finally displace Avatar. Again. Again. And then Avatar will release with five minutes more footage.

1:12:22Chris Hewitt:And oh God, it's an endless, endless cycle of destruction. So that's exciting.

1:12:30Chris Hewitt:But listen, we gave Avengers Endgame, I believe, squee stars that's correct so yeah which bit are you looking forward to seeing most? again on the big screen Cap with the Hammer Cap with the Hammer Cap with the Hammer Portals in the library I'm kidding oh my god well it was a clue joke I know it was but with a frizzle of sexiness yeah a little bit it had a hint of slash fiction if he'd kept the beard then we could have talked but here we are yeah portals portals portals we should talk about portals yeah I'm looking forward to the bit where Rene Russo tells Thor to eat a salad that's my favourite bit anyway let's talk about Heart of the Beast shall we let's Jimbo yes you're a dog person I mean I've been accused of that yes it has to be said I like dogs dogging oh right okay that's what it said on the arrest report anyway completely different oh boy oh boy this is not a film I'm so sorry to say about dogging though but it is a story about a dog I'm very happy to report this is not a film about dogging I mean there's a time and a place I'm happy maybe this is the extra four minutes of footage in Avengers Endgame perhaps it is it's just it's just Captain America Tony and Steve Cap and Thor outside yeah that's what it'll be Stark Spangled Banner oh no

1:13:59Chris Hewitt:did you just make a Bukaki joke it's the name for that three way can I just say I think we've just got the title of the episode

1:14:12anyway okay anyway anyway as you have already heard this is the story of Brad Pitt's James Belmont an ex-special forces soldier who heads off into the Alaskan wilderness with his loyal dog Odin who is a highly trained special forces combat dog Odin it is indeed played by Anthony Hopkins. And as we have discussed, you know, they go out into the woods, they encounter the kind of things you encounter in the woods, like wolves and bears and J.K. Simmons. Oh my. Oh my, indeed. Now, this is all, this is all sort of, goes a little bit tits up because the camping trip is sort of unhinged by the fact that he has a little seaplane that lands on the water.

1:14:50They go camping, they have a few beers, they run around. Odin has three legs, which is extremely adorable.

1:14:55Chris Hewitt:Just a, Belmont has the beers, Odin does not have the beers. You don't know that. I'm fairly certain he shares. That's how the dogging begins. Oh, no. Anyway, anyway, Brad Pitt's James Belmont has a heart attack at the throttle, and there's a whole traumatic crash sequence where Odin's barking and clearly not happy about this whole thing, and it's sucked out the door. It's very, very stressful. And then they have to try and, without a plane, get back to civilization and not die in the process. Now, it's essentially, really, when you get down to it, it's kind of a love story. Like it's a little bromance between Belmont and Odin.

1:15:31And the bond they have is so strong and so brilliantly conveyed. And we should say Uber, who is, I mean, I think there's like four dogs that play Odin, but Uber is the main one that does most of the doggy acting. Uber is outstanding. Oscar for Uber, please. Just because I think it really conveys the kind of, the sort of almost anthropomorphization. and the human-like qualities of Odin. Because you really believe, like when he's worried about Belmont, when Belmont gets injured, and he gets injured quite a lot, and when the dog is injured, and Belmont is devastated by it, and you feel this bond, but you are just in love with this dog all the way through this film, and it is delightful.

1:16:13The wilderness, which is Alaska, but is in fact actually New Zealand, and I imagine leaf fascists will be very quick to point out that that's not quite the... Looks immediately in hell. Exactly. I didn't call for this time. You'll find that topiary is completely out of place. I did not clock it this time. Really? Yeah. Really, it was pretty good. I was shocked by the credits. Yeah. But it's, I mean, it's a two-hander, isn't it? Or as Ollie says in his review, a one-hander and a one-poorer. And it's just the two of them together. And it's a delightful, delightful film. A very good boy, 13 out of 10.

1:16:44Honestly, I think, you know, Odin himself and all four of him get 1 ,000 out of 10. They're astonishing. The rest of the film is basically just fine. It's just a survival thriller, which I thought was pretty well done. So, yeah, I thought it was really quite gripping. And I did a lot of kind of jumping around in my seat just because I was very tense about certain things and whether Odin would be hurt or, I mean, a little bit less concerned about whether Belmont was hurt. That was fine. Wow. But Odin I was really invested in.

1:17:14Chris Hewitt:Come on. He's a human being with hopes and dreams and thoughts. Yeah, but he seemed tough. He was fine. I wasn't worried about him. He's a very resourceful guy. Odin was a sweetie. I would have died within three minutes. The heart attack would have taken me out. If not, the plane crash. Yeah. By the way, that's very rare. You don't really see characters in movies having heart attacks. You also don't see them as a rule, I would say, suffering a heart attack, then immediately rescuing themselves from a plane crash. He's nails. Yeah. He is absolutely nails. The survival stuff is quite cool, though.

1:17:45The way he gets over obstacles and gets past his injuries and whatnot. It's very intense. Yeah, and again, I would have died five minutes in. The stuff he does. So many times over. Oh my God. Well, when they asked you to pitch the tent.

1:17:56Chris Hewitt:Yeah. Actually stabbed himself.

1:18:02Chris Hewitt:And there's a lovely bit of self-surgery for self-surgery fiends. There's a nice bit of that in this movie. Yeah, I had a great time with this film. Slightly disappointed, but I can totally understand why the other creatures in the film, bears wolves J.K. Simmons are CG but J.K. Simmons is real it's a CG J.K. Simmons yes and CG Simmons in fact and but yeah the relationship the central relationship within the the man and his dog terrific really really good and it got me in the feels and judging from the stifled sobs I heard emanating from various quarters in my screening including very close to my left I don't think I was sobbing oh it's a real there's no shame there is no shame it's a real there was a bit there are some sad bits but I don't think I was I write sobbing Kermot sometimes are was to my back and to my right howling I don't know I don't know whether Kermot squirts of you in screenings but he might what it's from Miller's Crossing I just I don't like it as a phrase with respect to the cards yeah take it up with them that would be back to dogging again But yeah, I don't know whether Kermode was a crier.

1:19:19Chris Hewitt:Alaskan. Okay. Alaskan. Alaskan. Alaskan. Jesus Christ. But yes, I thought this was terrific. What did we give it? What did we give it? Four stars. Four stars for Heart of the Beast. Four stars. There we go. I can't disagree with that. I can't disagree with that. That does sound like a horror film from the title. Just saying. It's just a great fucking dog. Go see the movie. Yes. Good dog. That's the quote that we put on the post. Yes, four stars in for Heart of the Beast. Next up, Hell's Bells. Hello. It's Jane Austen back again. Her reign of terror will never end. It is a truth universally acknowledged that I have not read Sense and Sensibility.

1:19:59Chris Hewitt:Good Lord. Who dies in a hail of bullets, Helen? You're both Philistines. So what's this one about? This is about the Sensibility sisters who fall in love with a ficker. Is this what it is? is that what it is is that what happens in this not not but ah okay so this is directed by Georgia Oakley this is the first big screen English language anyway adaptation of Sensibility since the Ang Lee 1995 Oscar winner with Emma Thompson and Kate Winslet and Alan Rickman and a whole load of Oscar nominations Hugh Grant a whole load of Oscar nominations and of course an Oscar for best screenplay for Thompson herself who also wrote it this is adapted by a debut screenwriter called Diana Reid who I think has done a very good job but a very different sort of take on the material so yes it is about these sisters Eleanor played by Daisy Edgar-Jones and Marianne played by Esme Creed-Miles and they're the Dashwoods and they're the Dashwoods they have a younger sister as well Margaret who's Bodhi Ray-Bretchnack but it's mostly about Eleanor and Marianne so Eleanor is the more buttoned up more cautious more reserved of the two and Marianne is very sort of out there wild free running about the place wanting to like poetry and music and stuff in her life i know um anyway and they have been basically disinherited by their father's um older son so they have a half brother who basically inherits the entire estate and has been asked by their father to sort of give them a living and keep them and interprets this as give them a tiny amount and send them off to live in a cottage, which they do with their mother, who is played by, you know, her from Outlander.

1:21:43Katrina Belf. Katrina Belf. Thank you. I had a moment. So they're about to go off and live in this cottage, and just before they go, they meet their sister-in-law's brother, keep up with me, Edward Ferrars, who's played here by George Mackay. That was the Hugh Grant role originally.

1:21:58Chris Hewitt:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he and Eleanor have a bit of a connection, but there's something there keeping them apart. We're not quite sure what it is. but there's a really lovely connection there and it's really nice that we're seeing that relationship go. And then when they go to their new place in the country, Marianne meets the very charming John Willoughby, played by Frank Delane. There's a lot of characters in this. A lot of characters. Again, Jane, love you, baby. I got notes. No, you don't. You gotta power it down. What do you think this is? Avengers Endgame Encore? At least Marvel earned it.

1:22:30Chris Hewitt:You know, you gotta build up to having that many characters. It's not that many characters. It sounds like a lot. You've said like 1 ,800 names. I'm lost. It's the 1800s. I'm allowed to do that. We need to talk about petticoats. We don't. Well, actually, we will because this is an interesting film because they've actually, looks-wise, this is more Bronte than Austin. So this looks more like a Wuthering Heights or a Jane Eyre than it looks like most Pride and Prejudices and Sense and Sensibilities and Emmas, which is to say they're a bit wilder. Also, they're just wearing darker colours And it kind of makes sense because you also see them like working in the garden, digging, walking on what are clearly mirrors rather than, you know, in lovely pretty gardens.

1:23:14And I think it does give a different texture and a little bit less of a kind of pretty, pretty curated or like prim feel to it. And that is kind of nice and interesting and not something I think is wildly out of step for Jane Austen. But I also do think like it goes a little bit too far sometimes for me. Like I think this Marianne would be fully shunned from society because she is so bad at managing herself. Whereas I think like the Kate Winslet Marianne, for example, like trod the line a little bit better. She was passionate. She did have all these big feelings, but she could also like just about hold it together at a party, you know.

1:23:51So I think there were things like that I didn't think quite worked. And then this Eleanor is so reserved that I think sometimes it's on the wrong side of the line where you can't quite get into what she's feeling. And it's definitely less funny than The Ang Lee, which is an incredibly funny film as well as being beautiful and wildly romantic. So I think it's good. I didn't love it as much. It has not supplanted the original in my heart. And I know it shouldn't be a straight comparison between the two. These are two completely different adaptations. and this is very much going for a different energy and a different feel and a different emphasis on the elements of the story.

1:24:26But I did kind of, yeah, I did have some reservations about it. We've given it three stars and I would 100 % agree with that. So it's a high three for me. I did like it. It is a recommendation, but it's not the sort of five star 1995 one that we're measuring it against.

1:24:41Chris Hewitt:Three stars then for Sense and Sensibility, which is out in cinemas this week, as is Heart of the Beast. But a film that is on Prime Video, is this correct? This week is The Love Hypothesis. Indeed. This one stars Lily Reinhart, and she is a PhD student at Stanford University who is studying pancreatic cancer and has groundbreaking research, and she's applying for funding. Now, her best friend, Ann, develops feelings for someone that she formerly had a crush on, and according to the girl code, that is not allowed. However, Olive is a lovely, caring person, so she pretends to be dating someone so their friend Arne will not feel guilty about dating her crush.

1:25:23And to kind of sell this lie, she grabs a man in a hallway and just kisses him in the face. And that man, it turns out, is Dr. Evil, aka Dr. Adam Carlson, played by Tom Bateman, who is a honestly slightly neurodivergent coded professor who's incredibly rude and abrasive and grumpy and difficult. But the two of them agree to a fake relationship to convince her friend that she has a boyfriend, to convince his employer that he has ties to the university and won't fuck off to Harvard. And let's see if real feelings don't develop. I can't imagine that they would, James. So this is based on Ali Hazelwood's steminist romance novel.

1:25:59But the maddest thing about this whole thing, of course, is that the novel itself, which is called The Love Hypothesis, is based on an online bit of fan fiction she did in 2018 called Head Over Feet, which is Raylo fan fiction spun off of the Star Wars sequels. What? Yeah, it literally is spun off of Reylo fan fiction but the fan fiction it's not like it takes place 100 % in the Star Wars universe because they are at an institution but the professor that's being difficult is General Hux and it's like it's a whole fucking thing but also the maddest part of this is that the character of Dr. Evil in this Dr.

1:26:35Adam Carson is played by Tom Bateman who is Mr. Daisy Ridley and Daisy Ridley is producing this film which is of course based on the romance or supposed romance between Kylo Ren and Ray, it is a slightly wild concoction. I mean, look, it's fine. Like, it's not going to set your pants on fire. And actually, I went into this because I'd read some people saying this is truly dreadful. And I was like, do you know what? I had a pretty good time with this. It's exactly what it sets out to be. It's a kind of a frothy romance story. I mean, the Raylo thing is a whole other dimension that you wouldn't even know if you didn't actually know.

1:27:12But it's quite fun. it goes exactly where you think it will go. There are very few surprises in there, but I think it's really well played. I think Lily Reinhart is incredibly charming and convincing in it. I think Tom Bateman maybe over-eggs the slightly weird side of his professor, but you warm to him as well. I don't think we have an official Empire of You. I'd probably give it three. I probably would too. I've read the book. Oh, you have? It's very close to the book. Have you read the fan fiction? I have not read the fan fiction. I don't go there. But it's well directed by Claire Scanlon, I think.

1:27:43which does exactly what it needs to do for this kind of film. I mean, it's very much, it's not aiming to be fresh or new. It's very much trying to hit the tropes of the romance novel on which it's based. And it does exactly that and it does it pretty well. So I don't really, I don't have a big critique of it. It's not brilliant. It's not incredibly well-read. It's fine. But it's like, it's totally fine for a Friday night stupid rom-com. Artie Frushan from Daredevil we were just talking about before Buck Cashman yeah and he turns up here and you think for about a millisecond that he's going to be a romantic rival and then you realise oh no he's a bad guy he's a bad guy I think that's like isn't there a really ominous kind of like chord of music when he comes in so like by the way in case you didn't realise this guy's a bit of a dick what's wild to me though is that this the Raylo sort of shipping fiction of this it's pre I suppose this shouldn't be wild it's actually fairly obvious it's post Last Jedi pre Rise of Skywalker in the hinterland between those two because it came out in 2018 okay alright I'm sure that's really important to us all

1:28:51Chris Hewitt:before the Rise of Skywalker opened on December 20th 2019 that's right on my birthday alright three jimbos then for the love hypothesis which is on Prime Video I'm going to say very very quickly that you should absolutely try and seek out if you were a fan of documentaries and documentaries about filmmaking you should try and seek out Borman and the Devil which is David Kittrich's excellent documentary about the incredibly wild story behind Exorcist 2 The Heretic famously considered of course to be one of the worst movies ever made the story of how this film was made will blow your god damn mind and centerpiece of that is an interview he did with John Borman who is still with us which is great and it's really really terrific so that'll be out this week I believe in cinemas around the country if you can seek out Bormin and the Devil I'd give it four Chrissy's four Chrissy's then for Bormin and the Devil we're going to finish off the reviews section though with the eagerly awaited next film from South Korean filmmaker Na Hong Jin whose last movie was the superb The Wailing back in 2016 but he's back back back 10 years on with an all action alien invasion thriller called Hope hell's bells okay so this is about we open with a small town police chief i apologize for all of my pronunciation here he's played by hwang jun min who um is called out to see to see about basically a cow corpse lying in the road it's very mysterious how did this get here what happened to it um and he's trying to investigate that and he follows up with a couple of smaller sort of stops on his way back to town.

1:30:36And by the time he gets back to his town of Hope, or Hope Harbor, he finds all hell has broken loose. Something is running amok in town. It is killing a bunch of people. It is destroying stuff. There's explosions. There's gunshots. Everybody and their mum are pulling arsenals out from under the bed or whatever. I think this is implied to be kind of northern South Korea, like near the border. There's lots of signs around the place for it. This is demigraized. Yes, it's lots of signs up for like watch out for spies and that kind of thing. So yes, everybody's pulling out weapons and firing them in all directions, including our police chief himself.

1:31:12And it becomes clear that there is something very, very large, very dangerous, very fast moving, very powerful and prone to throwing people, cars and other objects like buildings around in town. And that he's going to have to try and figure out a way to respond to this. I don't want to say too much more than that about the plot if I'm perfectly honest there is a lot more to it this is quite a long film, this is two and a half hours and the first sort of section lasts about an hour and then it gets into another they go out into the woods basically looking to make sure that there's if there are any more of these to see where this has come from, what's going on and then there's a whole other segment at the end the action doesn't really stop except for some comic relief at times.

1:32:04There is an extended speech about a character who may have spotted the monster early, but he was too busy having diarrhea at the time to kind of, you know, know how to deal with it. It's very, very silly. And it's very, very not the tone you're maybe expecting from something that was at Cannes and was, you know, an official selection for the festival at Cannes. But I did have a really good time because the action doesn't really stop for very long. And the action was pretty good. The monsters are very cheap CG, I think, or at least very rushed CG, one of the two. They don't look terribly realistic.

1:32:48But them looking alien kind of worked for me, so I didn't particularly care. I'm watching this more as a B-movie than anything else. I was like, fine. So yeah, I had a good time, but I know, I know that that is not necessarily representative of everyone who's in the room with me right now. So, I should probably let people who maybe didn't feel the same way

1:33:09Chris Hewitt:say their piece. No, no, no, no, no, no. I don't know who you're talking about. Yeah, we saw this last night. Listen, we've given this four stars. I think that's maybe three too many. I hit flames, flames on the side of my face. I love the Wailing. I was really looking forward to this. The word out of Cannes wasn't great. I'll be honest. It gave me slight pause about this. But I went in last night, wanted to see a really fun, daft, alien invasion monster thrill ride. And that's not my experience. That's not what I got. What I found instead was a bad movie filled with repetitive action. There is one, I would say, very, very good action sequence.

1:34:08Chris Hewitt:Unfortunately, you have to sit through two hours and 20 minutes of the stupidest characters in the history of movies to get to that very, very good action sequence. Indeed, the CG is so bad. This is a$45 million film. This is the most expensive film in the history of South Korea. And yes, I understand they don't have the budget of an Avengers Endgame encore or the apex of special effects and the Wasp Quantumania. I know they don't quite have that. But for me, this was a massive disappointment. I felt that the script was first base, maybe even first draft. The characters are barely there. and this is with a very very heavy heart and I'm really surprised by this because again Na Hong Jin is a very very good filmmaker this is one of the worst movies I've seen this year so there we go four stars then for Hope and on last note that is it for this week's Empire Podcast join us next week for more film related fun we'll be joined by Ethan Hawke that's right the great Ethan Hawke returns to the Empire Podcast next week to talk about his new movie The Weight very exciting indeed but until then until we meet again until that auspicious occasion it is goodbye from my two colleagues of such lethal cunning and our worky Grace goodbye bye sorry about everything did you have a good time?

1:35:42yes you did?

1:35:43Chris Hewitt:okay you don't have to say yes by the way I'm not holding up a sign saying say yes it's not like you know there's a sign saying applause or anything like that I can give an applause if you'd like me to do it no no listen it's entirely up to you thank you very much indeed are you going to see Hope? definitely I wouldn't anyway thank you so much for joining us it's goodbye from Jimbo goodbye Chris do listen to the Pilot TV podcast Sian Brooke is on Monday's show do you know what's more exciting about that do you know what she brings with her Ziggy Stardust her sausage dog her miniature sausage dog who sat with her in our studio through the entirety of the podcast and was a delight.

1:36:23Chris Hewitt:That is exciting. It's goodbye from Helen O 'Hara. Goodbye, Helen. Totally. And it's goodbye from me. I'm off to blow out the candles on my birthday cake. But the thing is, I don't have much breath these days. I think I got the black lung, Pop. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Bye-bye.