The Empire Podcast On Mars Attacks! In Association With Warner Home Video

22:26Chris Hewitt:I think... Oh, it's so tough. I love... There's so many beats for the Martians I love. I love when they blow up Congress. I love when the Martian ambassador goes to make a speech. And then he reaches into his pocket and everyone thinks, oh God, he's going to bring out a ray gun and kill us all. And then he doesn't. He just pulls out a speech. He just pulls out a speech. And then seconds later, pulls out a ray gun and kills them all. Oh my God, he's so hilarious. But I think it's the bit in Sylvia Sidney's room just before the method of the Martian's demise is revealed. when they've just seen this old lady listening to headphones and they decide not to just shoot her.

23:08Chris Hewitt:They bring in the biggest gun you could possibly find and they're bringing it in really silent. Shh, don't spoil the surprise. I'm pretty sure there's at least one moment where they look at the camera. I'm pretty sure there's one moment where they look at the camera. It just feels like they're constantly on the verge of breaking the fourth wall before they break a whole load of noggins. Honestly, I have so much fun with these guys And it's weird how the movie does kind of hue to those disaster movie structures, right? So we get the beginning, which is very much a tops Mars attacks, trading card image brought to life, which is the...

23:50The cows on fire? Cow is on fire.

23:54Chris Hewitt:And then we see the Martians, obviously, their fleet flying towards Earth. but otherwise the first 20 minutes of this movie is character stuff we're getting to know the characters we don't really see the Martians and the movie doesn't really hit overdrive until the Martians land and disintegrate Paul Winfield and of course you know the fact that it's a Paul Winfield well it's a dove isn't it it's the dove the universal symbol of peace it scares them it scares them I think they were gonna already I think that was just that was just essentially the starting pistol, if you will. They were waiting for their moments.

24:34Chris Hewitt:They're an advanced culture. They couldn't possibly be this barbaric. No, what are you doing? They're naturally enlightened. I also love the idea that Paul Winfield's character had gotten there by never saying anything for his entire career that anyone could possibly disagree with. You know, this is, again, the satire coming through. But his whole thing of like, honey, I told you my strategy of never saying anything would finally pay off. Yeah. And he's so pleased to be meeting the Martians. He's so proud of, you know, he thinks he's finally made it. And then not so much. Is this your favorite Paul Winfield disintegration by laser moment in movies?

25:13Chris Hewitt:Definitely top five. The fact that this man had a career where we could make a list of moments where he's disintegrated by lasers. I think that's pretty impressive. Albeit, I can only think of one more. I don't want to spoil it too much for people who haven't seen Star Trek II, The Wrath of Khan. Buried alive! But in Star Trek II, The Wrath of Khan, he is also disintegrated by a laser. Do you think that's better or worse? The Mars attacks, what do you think? What's your favorite bit? I mean, for his, I will say for his sake, I think that the Star Trek one looked quicker and more merciful. This looks real painful.

25:49He has time to turn around and sort of go, what? As he is being disintegrated. Like, they are really nasty, nasty little aliens.

25:58Chris Hewitt:Oh, yeah. Yeah. I like that because I like... Jack Black dies, for example. You can see that he really is in quite a bit of pain. But yeah, some people seem to die pretty quickly. You know, and there's no real rhyme or reason to what works. Oh, and speaking of subversive moments, Jack Black's character, Billy Glenn, waves an American flag in surrender. Which is... When the clip pulls out of his rifle. Oh, boy. Which is pretty amazing. I think we should shout out to Frank Welker, who is one of the most legendary voiceover artists of all time, and he voices all the Martians, to my understanding.

26:37I don't know whether anyone else contributed any Martian voices.

26:41Chris Hewitt:I mean, there's not a variety of accents, I would say. It doesn't matter. Yeah, but he's got to have a conversation with himself. Yeah, you've got to have tone, yeah, vary the tone and speed and so on. So this is an entire voice performance with just the word ack. Yeah. That, I mean, that makes Vin Diesel look like he worked three times as hard as Groot. That's incredible. I am Groot. You have three words to play with? Wow. Ack, ack, ack. Ack, ack, ack. I love this movie so much. I think it's probably fair to say that it's not 100 % successful, that there are some swings that Tim Burton takes it that don't entirely hit.

27:19Weirdly, one of those

27:20Chris Hewitt:is the second Jack Nicholson. Hmm. His second role in this art land doesn't land for me. And you're just watching the movie going, why is Jack Nicholson playing two roles? Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, the idea that it's a galaxy hotel and then he's cruelly taken away, I guess that's trying to make it a sort of satire on capitalism as well as everything else. But I agree, it doesn't 100 % work. I also think, I mean, there's characters who just stop being in the movie for a while and then just turn up again at the end. Natalie Portman just isn't there and is then there. again. As Taffy. As Taffy, the president's daughter, the first daughter.

27:57Chris Hewitt:Who you think is going to be a sort of archetypal kind of Winona Ryder in Beetlejuice, gothy Burton teenager. You know, Jenna Ortega is filling that role now in Wednesday and Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, don't say the third time, he'll turn up. But yeah, she doesn't, she kind of loses. Yeah, she kind of comes and goes, but turns up at the end to just sort of, you know, stand for the government being back again. Being the only one. I mean, I have like a limited knowledge of the line of succession in the US. I'm not sure the first daughter inherits the mantle when the president... I'm pretty sure constitutionally there would be a problem there.

28:31Well, constitutionally, like a lot of the others were in Congress. That's true. There is no Congress, isn't there? I don't think there's anyone left. I think she's even left. She might be. There is no line of succession. And also, of course, as you know, James, they modeled the US Constitution and the powers of the president on the British monarch. So technically, really, it's not that much of a stretch that the daughter could inherit.

28:50Chris Hewitt:I think I can help you out here. The line of succession is thus. Jack Ryan, if he's not available, Kiefer Sutherland. And if he's not available, Natalie Portman. You have it figured out. That's how it works. You forgot John Goodman from the West Wing. Otherwise, you've got it. I thought you were going John Goodman from King Ralph. That's fair enough. He couldn't be the president because he's the king of England. I love that the Martians pulled the same thing on the French and presumably the whole of Europe. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. they've explained everything it was a misunderstanding and the American president going no no Jacques no there's two bits of cast in the movie that are I think worthy of acknowledgement as well as well as the 455 A-listers that are in this movie because the French president is played by the film director Barbé Schroeder director of Reversal of Fortune and the guy who tinkers with the Martian translation machine is the great Polish director Jertzy Skolomowski who also shows up in Avengers the Avengers he's the guy who is attempting to torture Black Widow at the beginning of the movie when of course she has him exactly where she wants him and he's a great director of movies like Essential Killing and I love that he shows up in films like this and Avengers Assemble slash the Avengers yeah I also didn't I see a Howard wasn't there a a Howard and Elder Howard yes Rance Howard there we go Rance Howard Ron and Clint Howard's father who is no longer with us sadly but yeah he's very very briefly in that the casting of this movie is so idiosyncratic and so purely Tim Burton I just adore it down to the Tom Jones thing which makes a kind of sense because Tom Jones would be playing in Las Vegas wouldn't it very associated with Vegas yeah very very much so and I I love that movie ends with and it ends with a couple of things it ends with Taffy becoming I guess the president of the United States of America or certainly representing the government let's say acting goodwill ambassador or something like that and even then it's kind of subversive because all the way through the movie it has presented her to the audience as the voice of reason in this family like she knows her parents are a bit stupid and a bit much and a bit gauche and vulgar at the end of the movie when she takes over I guess she's basically hitting on Lucas yeah do you have a girlfriend?

31:19Chris Hewitt:which again, perhaps shows the lack of judgment inherent in people in positions of power in this movie because Lucas House's Richie is not, I would put it to you, a catch. Oh, he's a sweetie pie and he has access to like only six-day-old donuts. He's an idiot. No, he has moral fortitude. He didn't care he was going to get his grandma and I respect that. You've got to love a guy who loves his grandma. Yeah, and if it weren't for him, they never would have discovered that Slim Whitman is the, you know, kryptonite for the aliens. This is true. But he thought, Jimbo, they were making the international sign of the doughnuts.

31:52Chris Hewitt:He is a doughnut. Who's to say they weren't? He's a little bit of a doughnut. I wonder, if Slim Whitman's yodeling was key to killing the Martians, does that mean, like, the entire country of Switzerland was totally fine because of all the yodelers? Yes, Helen. That's what happens in Switzerland. Everybody yodels. Because they don't have phones, so that's how they talk over long distances. Hello? Yodeling. the Slim Whitman thing is brilliant it's a riff on the common cold killing the Martians in War of the Worlds but what an inspired Joyce it is I do genuinely I would give real money to have been in the room when this was first shown to the executives and they realised what he had made for them because let's forget so this is what two films I want to say after Batman Returns which he'd had some sort of creative wrestling with the studio over that because it's darker it's much more of him he had more creative control in that film.

32:45And then Ed Wood is a relatively grounded, down-to-earth Burton film, possibly the most grounded, down-to-earth Burton film. And then to go straight from that to this dose of, like, pure, supercharged anarchy, I can just imagine you'd have heard a pin drop in that room. They'd have had no idea what to do with this. And I think it's fascinating to me, because it obviously didn't perform as well as he would have liked. And I think Empire loved it from the get-go, but I think it was critically mixed. I think it's taken time for it to be kind of reappraised as a kind of cult classic because I think people do have real affection for this and actually in Burton's oover I think it stands out as one of the kind of boldest most you know incredible things he's actually put together like it's wild that he even attempted to do this let alone got it off the ground I had this poster on my wall for years I loved the poster with all the heads with all the heads yes that was a great poster it's a great poster and it nice planet will take it yeah and great tagline and I feel like that hopefully over the years help people pick it up in video stores and all the rest.

33:45Chris Hewitt:So what happened? Why did this movie... I mean, it did okay, the box office. Let's not pretend it was completely another flop. I think it was partly the proximity to Independence Day where people maybe thought this would be that, and it very much wasn't. But also, I think the open opposite Jerry Maguire was so, you know, unfortunately, it was knocked into second place by that. So other people were showing the money to Jerry Maguire. Yes, very much so. And no one helped me help Tim. Yes. I do think it was a weird one as well. I remember it not being what I expected at the time. And I remember being a bit discombobulated by that and sort of taken aback.

34:19And I wonder if people who were less willing to just go with the madness just came out and gave it horrible word of mouth. Because I think this is a niche interest in a way that, you know, I think Tim Burton has always aimed to speak to the outsider, but actually there's a lot of people who have at times in their lives felt like outsiders and therefore they identify with his characters. Everybody's gone through a phase of feeling like you're on your own or people don't understand you or whatever else. So you can identify with Edward Scissorhands or whatever. And I think in this case, it's just so bonkers.

34:53It doesn't feel like, oh, this is speaking to me as an outsider. It just feels like this is upending everything I hold dear

34:59Chris Hewitt:and I don't know how to cope. Jack Black just waved an American flag and surrendered. I also think this is his most Burton-esque to the point where I think after this he got a bit gun-shy I think this, he peaked I think this is so him this is so his sensibility I think he felt like he could finally kind of go nuts, let rip and just throw it all out there put it all out on the field and just do what he wanted to do and I think he's been, his choices since don't get me wrong, his sensibility is still tangible, it's still there, it's very much present but I feel like he's been much more cautious since this I think everything built up to this film.

35:36And he went completely hog wild with it. And since then, I think his choices have been a lot more conservative. I mean, I think that's a little harsh. I mean, Climate of the Apes wasn't, you know.

35:48Chris Hewitt:Well, yeah, but I think there are a million reasons why that movie turned out the way that it did. But his next movie after this is Sleepy Hollow. Yes. And I think that's exceedingly Tim Burton. It's very Tim Burton, but it's much more traditional as a film than this is. I mean, true. I don't think anything else in his filmography stacks up against this for just sheer ambition and just, well, obvious carnage. And weirdness. I guess that's true. I love Sleepy Hollow. I think Sleepy Hollow is wonderful. So these, like that run through the 90s, I mean, Batman to a degree, but Batman returns to a much greater degree for me.

36:24Tell you what, Hells Bells,

36:25Chris Hewitt:we talked about the Rob Reiner run on this podcast a lot, haven't we? We talked about, you know, between, well, 82 and 90. 92, if you want to extend to A Few Good Men. You know, that's an amazing, amazing run. But look at Burton. Burton's early work. Cheers. So Pee-wee's Big Avenger in 1985, Beetlejuice in 1988, Batman 1989, Edward Cisterhands 1990, Batman Returns 1992, Ed Wood 1994, Mars Attacks 1996, Sleepy Hollow 1999, and then that's where that run ends. But that's an amazing, that's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight movies in a row, all of which I think you can make an argument for are certainly cult classics, one of which reinvented the blockbuster wheel and redefined the landscape and changed cinema.

37:19Chris Hewitt:And half of cinema that we watch today exists because of that film. Beetlejuice, of course, is what we're talking about. And that's a hell of a run. and I don't think there's anyone in cinema even today even something like Beetlejuice Beetlejuice I don't think there's another director on the planet who could make movies the way that Tim Burton makes them sometimes that's for good sometimes that's for ill but I think more often than not it's for good and like I said earlier on I applaud the fact this movie got made and I applaud the fact that someone is idiosyncratic and weird and singular as Tim Burton exists absolutely He's one of a handful of directors whose name has essentially become an adjective, right?

38:01Like, Burton-esque is such a distinct, you know exactly what you're saying when you use his name in a film. And I think he established that star really early on. It's so wild to me that he started out at Disney as an animator, like working on the Fox and the Hound and things like that. I just can't even imagine how they fit him into that box. It is, if Disney had been making better films during the 1980s, the landscape of film generally would be so different today because Tim Burton might never have left, John Laster might never have left. You know, Brad Bird might never have left. All these people who went on to change cinema might still be sort of working away as animators at Disney.

38:36Probably they'd still have made films because I think, you know, they still knew what they were doing. But it really is quite astonishing. And thank goodness he did leave. And, you know, he got to take things like Frank and Weenie with him and make those later. Well, Frank and Weenie, I think, is the reason he got kind of quote-unquote soft-fired, wasn't it? He put that out as a short and they were like, what the hell is this? We don't think you're a good fit for us.

38:55Chris Hewitt:What the fox and the hound is going on here? This is not very Disney, is it? My goodness. Tim, I've just seen your latest sketch of the hound. Why does it have wild, wiry hair and massive eyes? Spindly limbs. Why is it wearing a black and white jacket, Tim? I don't know. It just happened. Thank goodness he did. We also got two of the greatest Christmas movies of all time out of it, The Nightmare Before and Batman Returns. Oh, well done. But no, yeah, he is singular. And what's weird is it's singular even here, even though this doesn't look like most other Tim Burton movies. Like if, you know, there's a look that you can kind of see running through Sleepy Hollow and Edward Scissorhands, and okay, maybe it's just Johnny Depp's face.

39:41But I think it's also, there is a certain more of a gothic element. Yeah, and a twisted fairy tale quality. Yeah, and this doesn't really have that. It definitely is the twist, though. And maybe that's what makes it feel Burton-y.

39:52Chris Hewitt:It's the first of his movies, I think, that takes place in the real world. And I say that knowing that Ed Wood took place in the actual real world. But you know what I mean. Yes. There is, you know, because even the design here is deliberately over the top, but it doesn't feel very burdened. There's no great elaborate constructs and there's no weird spirals and everything's slightly off kilter and weird. This is ostensibly the real world until the Martians come in. yeah yeah I think there's a little bit of that kind of again the colour scheme is very that's what really leapt out to me when I watched it again last night that very sort of 60s almost kind of almost kind of Doris Day comedy Doris Day Rock Hudson kind of like quite pastel-ish bright and everything is very pretty and very colourful and very like we're modern and now and hip and then like crazy stuff happened in that world.

40:53I love it. It's so good.

40:55Chris Hewitt:So what you're saying is those movies would have been improved if Martians had shown up halfway through? Honestly, I rate Doris Day's chance against the Martians. I think she would have shouted at them enough that they would have run away from her. I think she could take them. Really? Yeah, I do. I do. I lament the fact that this movie underperformed at a box office. I looked it up and it made, you know, in 1996, the worldwide cinema wasn't reported as much as it is nowadays so we don't really know what things we're making around the world so it's largely well something like boxofficemojo.com is basically just US receipts for movies but it made roughly a tenth of what Independence Day did that year and I lament that because yes it's taken the long slow train to recognition over the years but I would have loved to have seen a Mars Attacks 2 or 3 because I think there is real mileage in how anarchic and funny and wild these characters could be.

41:59Chris Hewitt:You bring the Martianists back, there's no limit to what you can do with them. You know, it reminds me a lot of Gremlins. They are the Gremlins in this movie. They're just running amok. And could you have had a Mars Attacks 2 that was absolutely as insane and fourth wall breaking and meta as Gremlins 2? I mean, it's much more insane than the original Gremlins. I'd say it's not a million miles away from the insanity of Gremlins, dude, just without the meta stuff. Guys, two words. Legacy sequel. Oh my goodness gracious me. Mars Attacks, again! What, we attack Mars? Honestly, yes. You've got the title.

42:33We can do this thing.

42:35Chris Hewitt:Yes. This is going to be incredible. Tim, are you listening? I know you are. Is this on? Hello, Tim. Tim, we would love to pitch you Mars Attacks again. Hello? How do podcasts work? Can he talk back to us? I don't think so. No? No. I'm sure he'll text in a minute. I'm sure he will. Just text in, Tim, text yes to 0800 Mars Attacks Again. And we'll get cracking on that screenplay. But yes, where does it stand for you? You said that you think that this is something that feels the most Tim Burton in many ways. So is this your favorite Tim Burton film? I don't think it's my favourite Tim Burton film because I'll always have a soft spot for the original Beetlejuice but it's definitely up there I just think for the pure anarchy and I remember seeing this I knew you were going to do that I was literally waiting for it I remember coming out of this and just being like I don't know what I've just seen but I absolutely love it and I bought the VHS of this the day it went on sale Wow I really did I was so excited Hang on, VHS?

43:39Yes, VHS No Old school It was a long time ago It was old school This was the 90s If anyone needs me, I'm just going to crawl into the corner and wait to die. Weirdly, I just saw C. Robert Cargill be the screenwriter and author. Did you see Robert Cargill? Talking about this film this morning and was talking about how it felt like a fever dream. Oh, I can well imagine. What are the chances?

44:01Chris Hewitt:That's amazing. Yeah, just the ending. It's not just a Slim Whitman thing. It's not just a Slim Whitman song. I cast my lasso toward the sky, but I think the end of this movie the very end of this movie is one of the great cuts to black in cinema history it might be my favorite ever cut to black I think I think this is what they were going for with the Avengers at the end of Avengers Age of Ultron and they got it they nailed it sure but this is yeah it's sublime it's the dancing I don't know what kind of bird it is it looks like a woodpecker but it's the dancing bird that just does it for me with his little head flipping backwards and forwards.

44:46Chris Hewitt:It turns into the kind of Disney fairy tale at the end that Tim Burton would almost certainly have been fired from had he worked on it. And it's so beautifully knowing and tongue-in-cheek and piss-takey and it is glorious as Tom Jones, yes, from Cardiff, Wales, starts to bop to the sound of It's Not Unusual that cannot be coming from anywhere except inside his own head. Accompanied by woodland animals. Accompanied by woodland animals that run to him as if it's Bambi 2, the Bambinine. And it's just amazing. And as he's about to launch into It's Not Unusual, we cut to black. It's up there with the hard cut at the end of American Werewolf in London to Blue Moon.

45:34Chris Hewitt:Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. I'm not going to do the whole thing, but it's so good. It's so good. why didn't people appreciate this movie at the time? I want names. I want addresses. Obviously, we'll respect GDPR, but still, show yourselves. We'll write some strongly worded letters. Yes. This is top... This is top... It's only top 14, Burton, for me. This is top five, maybe even three for me. Yeah, I'm having the same debate. I think Batman Returns. Does he? And Sleepy Hollow just edge it for me. Oh, okay. It's definitely maybe like, it might be third. Okay. In terms of directorial efforts.

46:24So I think it's ahead of Big Fish, which I adore. I think Big Fish is great.

46:29Chris Hewitt:Which one's that? That's the Albert Finney, Ewan McGregor one. Not to be confused with Big Eyes. No. Which is not to be confused with all his movies, which have big eyes in them. That's correct. Okay. Yeah, and I think it's a head, but it's a head of Batman, it's a head of Beetlejuice. And what a head. Indeed. Little evil skull, glaring eyes, massive, massive heat. Massive brain, which indicates intelligence, which must mean that they're benevolent. James's got a big head. Thank you. I've got a big head. It's very hard to find hands. It indicates telepathic abilities. You would not want to sit behind one of these guys at the cinema, would you?

47:02Chris Hewitt:No. You wouldn't know. You wouldn't know. Not least, they'd be doing this all the way through. It'd be like Max Cady if they were watching Love Actually. Love Actually. Love Actually. Very good. Oh, boy. I think they would talk in the cinema. You are correct. Yeah, they would. Definitely. If you spoke, they would turn around and shoot their ray guns. Yeah, that's it. They would be hypocrites about the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. Right, one last thing to talk about. Okay. The terrible fate of Muffy. It's Aaron and Jessica Parker's dog. Oh. Oh. Oh, poor thing. But Muffy fights back when her head is transplanted onto a human body.

47:41She uses that human body to kick Martians. And that's a good use. And that's a good use. Well done, Muffy.

47:47Chris Hewitt:All right, well, that is it for this celebration of Tim Burton's Mars Attacks in association with the 30th anniversary brand new 4K remaster release, which looks absolutely stunning. It's available in Steelbook, standard collector's edition and digital it's available to buy now from Warner Brothers UK in all good evil and virtual stores wherever you get your Blu-rays don't order it from the Martians though or you'll get a very very nasty surprise right all that remains now is for me to say goodbye to my two colleagues of such lethal cunning goodbye James Dyer goodbye Chris for dark is the suede that mows like a harvest what?

48:34That's the translation when they're trying to translate the motto. For dark is the sway that mows like a harvest. Ak, ak. Ak, ak.

48:43Chris Hewitt:Goodbye, Helena Harrah. Ak, ak. Ak. That's brilliant. It's like Frank Welker's in the room. And it's goodbye for me. I'm off to cast my lasso toward the sky and see what happens. I'm making the international sign of the donut. Ah-woo. Ah-woo.

49:06Thanks for listening.

49:07Chris Hewitt:See you next time. Bye-bye.