The Fantastic Four: First Steps — The Team Empire Take

23:27Chris Hewitt:It feels like someone's had the scissors out at times. Certainly that first 20, 30 minutes is quite choppy, I would say. I think the Natasha Lyonne stuff just doesn't really go anywhere. No, it doesn't. It's really disappointing because I'm like, why keep it in if there's no like sort of... I think they kept it in because I think it's the only thing that Eben Moss Bacharach got to do. The only thing that the thing... Yeah. And also, And again, we've only seen it once. Correct us if we're wrong. Going back to see it again this weekend. This is another Marvel movie in which I don't think their superhero names are said once, right?

24:01Chris Hewitt:And the thing's name is a huge part of his identity and his identity crisis and the idea that he actually resents what he's become and is really, really struggling to come to terms with that. And his best friend, Mr. Compassion, who gives himself the name Mr. Fantastic, but maybe not in this world, maybe someone else did. calls his best mate The Thing. Hey, deformed guy with the rock skin. I'm going to call you The Thing. Does that sound good to you? And that's a huge part of Ben's story and it just felt like he was maybe dealt a bad hand in this one. Again, I think we can kind of see it on the edges with Reed and Ben's relationship in terms of Reed feeling a bit guilty about Ben.

24:42But again, it's just, it's very much, it's there, but it's not as deep as it could be with more screen time. Yeah. could have gotten.

24:51Chris Hewitt:Yeah, and the Natasha Lyonne character, who I was surprised wasn't Alicia Masters at first. She's not that. And who, if people don't know, is, I guess, traditionally Ben's love interest. She's a blind sculptor, blind artist. Was in the 2000 Fantastic Four films. Indeed, played by Kerry Washington. So this is Natasha Lyonne. So Natasha Lyonne is not that character. and yeah sadly that doesn't go anywhere at all she's in a couple of scenes and he's on that street in New York a couple of times and she's not she's not there yeah Yancey Street and she's not there and then he goes to see her just before Galactus shows up and then I think we get a brief glimpse of her in Subterranea yeah and then that's it yeah but do you think that's somewhere we could go and develop in future installments yeah I think that's why they've left it in right they've left it there to be developed in the future.

25:49But I know that's not our favorite thing. Except, is this the last time

25:54Chris Hewitt:we're going to see the FF in this world? I think the start of Doomsday, we're going to see them in the world, but then they're going to very quickly be jettisoned elsewhere. So I don't think it's going to be developed because there's not enough runway. Unless their world becomes one of the default sort of settings. Like a large part of their world could become the default. The default world that emerges out of Secret Wars or Doom, say, wherever it comes in, doesn't have to be all one world. Everyone could essentially bring their supporting cast with them. Were you surprised that this film did not end with the Fantastic Four off-universe?

26:34I'm a little bit surprised by that. I was wondering when they have the idea halfway through to move their world into another galaxy. I was like, oh, that's interesting. Is this going to go wrong and this is going to lead to some of the events we're going to see in future. Yeah. I did think that that was a possibility, although it felt weird because that felt like it was starting an entirely new storyline instead of dealing with the story that we had been set up to tell in this film. So I think that would have been confusing. I did think there'd maybe be a little bit more fallout from the absent ambassadors of Latveria or something at some point that would maybe set up Doom a bit more.

27:12Chris Hewitt:Yeah, maybe, maybe. But I don't know. But the thing about that is I was thinking about how is this movie going to end? How is it going to resolve itself? And about 25, 30 minutes from the end, I was like, well, it has to finish in this world. Because if our expectation of the FF in Avengers Doomsday or Avengers Secret Wars is that they at some point come from their dimension, their world, their universe, their multiverse, their little corner of the multiverse to quote unquote the MCU's Earth they were basically doing what they've been fighting against doing this entire movie which is leaving Earth, leaving everyone behind to do so any threat mounted to Earth 828 or 288 would have to be much much greater than the threat that they've been fighting this entire movie to make them go for help or to make them do whatever it is that makes them that makes that ship whoever's in that ship at the end of Thunderbolts because let's not forget that.

28:18Yes.

28:18Chris Hewitt:So whatever brings them to the MCU world our world I wish I was in the MCU world to the MCU world that has to be a bigger threat I don't think they would turn tail and run from that. Not necessarily. Yeah. There's another scenario that gets them to this world or you know that world which is if Doom is in that ship at the end of Thunderbolts then they come on essentially a prisoner retrieval mission. They are Tommy Lee Jones and the Fugitive of doom is harrison ford check every hen house out of the house they're checking the hen houses i'm not sure like marvels i'm not sure like world dr doom being likened to dr richard kimball okay but you know what i mean uh what i'm saying is it's basically it's kind of they did it before with thor in the first avengers he's coming to pick up his prisoner and there's a jurisdictional battle if if doom does something awful on their world which he seems to be on the verge of doing I mean, we'll talk about that in a second.

29:09Chris Hewitt:Let's talk about that in a minute. I don't think he necessarily is. But if he does something awful in their world, they could well come after him. And also, he stole their ship. So they might come after him to get their ship back because they don't want him doing anything awful with their ship in particular. So I don't think it has to be a threat to their world that gets them to move. Interesting. All right, we shall see. Because we are going to see. We're going to see in about a year and a half, we're going to see the FF again in Avengers Doomsday. I have to say, I wouldn't have minded a second FF movie before that.

29:37just to get

29:38Chris Hewitt:like we know these characters are very very good versions of these characters I think it is pretty much objectively the best FF movie that's a very very low bar I realise that but you know this is a very very solid Fat Fourstick didn't do it for you? What's that? Fat Fourstick didn't do it for you? What's that? Oh the Dreadful Josh Trank movie is at the poster yes very good you know so you know but I would like to see them again before they get lost a little bit in the shuffle although I think will be very, very important in Doomsday. But, you know, I would like to see them again. And also maybe establish that relationship between Reed Richards and Victor Von Doom, which is so pivotal in the comic books and is not established here deliberately so.

30:24Chris Hewitt:But why? What's the thinking going on there? I would like to see before Avengers Doomsday. Yeah. Like, because we were debating this in the Thunderbolts spoiler special, And I was predicting that we'd see a lot more of Doom than we end up seeing in this film because of just like sheer storytelling ease. With Avengers Doomsday now, you have to introduce Doom and everything he's about whilst juggling a ridiculous amount of heroes. which means there's going to be less time for everyone to really have their moment make their mark because Doom has to by virtue of being Doom and the things called Avengers Doomsday and He's the villain has to take up a good chunk of that screen time now so yeah I would love to see at least a couple more films from not just Fantastical 4 but from Shang-Chi from other people before we get to Doomsday but that's where we're at right now That's where the cookie crumbles Harry what's your thoughts on all of that and the absence of Victor Von Doom from this movie for the most part.

31:33Chris Hewitt:We'll talk about the post-credits scene in a second. Tell me if I'm wrong. Is he mentioned at all before the post-credits scene? No. A couple of times we see the word Latveria, which of Doom is the ruler of Latveria. And it made me wonder actually if Latveria exists as a country in the MCU Earth. Maybe not. It's probably on the same ground as Sokovia. Yeah, probably. I think maybe the film itself is better for it, but the runway up to Doomsday maybe isn't. I quite like that this was quite focused on Galactus, Silver Surfer, all the family stuff. I think throwing another cog in there probably wouldn't have helped it at all, but I do think that feels like there's even less of a runway than there was going from Ragnarok to Infinity War.

32:15Oh, 100%. Not that they can't do that because there still wasn't a massive one. There was that Ragnarok post-credits scene, but you had all the Thanos teasing beforehand. Exactly. Yeah, but it was all Thanos teasing. We had had, in total, perhaps like three minutes of Thanos. And Thanos was still incredible. That's what you need to do. It doesn't, I mean, the length of the runway doesn't matter if you're in a VTOL plane, by which I mean, you know, if the character can get that heavy lifting in quick enough, if you, for example, cast Robert Downey Jr., then maybe you essentially have a VTOL villain.

32:49Chris Hewitt:Absolutely, I agree with that. I think that they absolutely can hit the ground running in Doomsday, and they've proved it before, and they can do it again. whether or not they do so remains open to interpretation of course and open to question but Doom is interesting because again it was one of those things as I was watching the movie I thought Doom's not even going to be referenced in this movie because he can't be because the whole thing's about Reed in a way trying to for the first time not having the answers and not having like he's posed with this problem that he just cannot solve and if you then suddenly had another big brain science guy come in then that would that would diminish Reed a lot even though the movie sets out to pose these obstacles to him and he can't always surmount them if Doom was there he goes oh I know who I'll call this really really clever guy in Lanferia you know we're all kind of friends slash slash frenemies and then he comes in he comes in for a couple of science bros and they come in for a for a bit of a chat and they have a bit of a banter and then that just sidelines Reed a little bit in his own movie so again I figured halfway through we're not going to see Doom at all unless he shows up in a post-credits scene which is what happens at the end of the film where he shows up in the Baxter building and he is he's taking his helmet he's taking his mask off I have a theory about that it's fairly obvious I think he's trying to get the kid to cure him interesting I think he knows what happened to Sue yep he's very smart he could analyse the footage he probably has been analysing the footage to see what the Fantastic Four can and can't do and he may well have seen that she looked super dead she was super dead yeah then a baby sat on her and she looked better they've probably been very open about that as well because Reed knowing how open Reed was I mean Jesus Christ dude you could not have you could not have drawn that out of me I would not have told the world hey for the price of one person I could have got everybody's safety.

34:58Yeah. I would not have told everyone that because...

35:01Chris Hewitt:I wouldn't have led with it. I know it's a bit... If anybody has read the short story, the very famous old short story about the Omelas child. Oh my God. I know it's a bit Omelas child. I read it on the way here. Well, it's a great show. Remind me. It's about this town called, a city called Omelas where everything is perfect and everything is beautiful. And, you know, the crops come in, the weather is always lovely. nobody dies of horrible, needful death, needless death. You know, everything is great. And the reason is that one child has to live in utter misery and torment. Oh, I grew up in Omalus.

35:38Chris Hewitt:I had a horrible time. Yeah, there you go. But the idea is, would you be okay living in Omalus? It's kind of like a thought experiment. Anyway, so essentially in this scenario, of Franklin Reed as almost the Omalus child. It's like, if you give him up, sorry, Omalus Richards, if you give him up, you know, the world will be fine. Yes. But then what kind of world are you actually saving if you are willing to sacrifice a baby to do it? So that's kind of the ethical, I guess, question. It's like the fairy problem from The Dark Knight. It's like, yeah, or it's the very famous trolley problem. The trolley problem.

36:16It's a more traditional way of phrasing that outside of this room anyway. See, that's an interesting theory. See, my theory was they just couldn't get Robert Downey Jr. on set that day.

36:26Chris Hewitt:Yeah, yeah. I do wonder if that was Downey. As you noticed at the end of the credits, the musical cue is called Doom? And it's written by Alan Silvestri. I did notice that. Which is very, very cool. But was that Downey in Le Cloak? I don't know. Probably not. It's like, is that Pedro in the armor? Do you know what I mean? Like, does it matter? What if Pedro and RDJ do an entire movie together and they never meet? Never. They have like 15 scenes together, Reed and Doom, and they never meet because Pedro is never on set of these things, even when it's his face. He has a double who looks exactly like him.

37:12Oh, really? He's having a great time. Tell me more about the double.

37:16Chris Hewitt:He's having a great time, Pedro Pascal, but his life model decoy is having a terrible time. He's being on the list to fuck. He's shooting this movie. He's shooting that movie. Why is Pedro Pascal in so much stuff? Because he has a life model decoy. Oh my God. That explains how he can turn up to all the premieres as well. Precisely. Why he looks so immaculate at all times. Oh my God. We've blown this thing wide open. This is absolutely incredible. Doom is... Okay. because you're a big Doom guy. I'm a big Doom. The character, not the concept. The character, not the video game. Yeah. Were you disappointed by the lack of Doom?

37:57Chris Hewitt:And what's your theory? Do you agree with Helen's theory that Doom, who has a, how should we say, his face is disfigured in some way? He's asking little Franklin to cure him. He just wanted to gaze into those baby blue eyes with his own eyes, that's all. you've actually made Doom sound creepy that's so much worse he actually is yeah I was a little bit disappointed I thought we were going to get a lot more Doom than we do but it's a cool tease I'm excited for Doomsday and where it might lead I was just hoping to get a little taste a bigger taste of Doom than what we ultimately get here do you think that when the dust has settled Doomsday, Secret Wars, when that's finished, 2028 at the moment, as things stand.

38:49Chris Hewitt:But there's a chance, I wouldn't be surprised if Secret Wars winds up in 2029. I would not be surprised by that either. Or maybe even 2030, who knows. Do you think there's a chance when the dust settles that the FF will return to their own pocket of the multiverse? No. Or do you think that there will be that Secret Wars patchwork, you know, incursion happens and part of their universe smooshes into ours? or maybe it'll be a planet mixed up of different cities. Yeah, I think we're going back to a single reality. Sacred timeline shit. Sacred timeline shit. Ari, what do you think? I think we're on a train and I think it's going one direction.

39:26Oh my God, story of our life. No, I don't think we're going to see the Fantastic Four back on Earth. I've forgotten. 828. Or 288 if you're British. I don't think we're going to see the Fantastic Four on 828 again, I think. Aside from the start of Doomsday. Yeah, I think much like Captain America First Avenger, where it's like, that was the fun period, peace one. And now they're like, right, now we're off to do the Avengers stuff. Now it's time to do two better ones. Hey. Hey now.

39:55Chris Hewitt:You may hey all you like, but you agree as well. Even in your heart, search your feelings, you know it to be true. I would put Winter Soldier above First Avenger in terms of quality, if not in terms of my heart. I honestly don't know about Civil War. Oh, come on. Come on. Come on. I said what I said. I said what I said, man. I said what I said. Yeah, Doom's interesting. So Helen's theory is that he is asking Franklin to cure him. I have a theory that adds on to that. Okay. I think that Doom is a power-cidal maniac. Shall we say that? He's a power-cidal maniac. Power-cidal. Yes, but I was trying to make it all in one word.

40:41But then he would want to kill power.

40:42Chris Hewitt:No, he wants to take power for himself. Okay. And he wants to siphon power from Franklin. I suspect that this is going to be part of the storyline. Historically, if you look at the Secret Wars stuff, the Beyonder comes along, near an omnipotent alien who creates this planet that makes all the good guys and bad guys fight, and Doom goes, nice power, I'll take it, and tries to usurp the Beyonder takes his power and for a little while at least succeeds. I expect something like that to happen at some point. And I think he'll be attracted to people of great power in the MCU. Without having great responsibility for them.

41:25Chris Hewitt:So he's attracted to the power that Franklin Richards clearly possesses. He has the power cosmic in the MCU. I think he will be checking out our old friend Bob, aka Sentry, in Doomsday. There will be numerous other people as well. Perhaps Louis from Ant-Man. He will be hunting down all these people. If he comes for Louis, we go for him. Louis is a precious cinnamon bun and must be protected at all costs. He must be. I would also predict that he's going to come for Shang-Chi's Ten Rings. Steady on, what? I say. Is that what the kids are calling it? It's quite a weekend. hello my word hello and maybe Captain Marvel as well maybe Captain Marvel and of course if he can remember what the hell Emilia Clarke is called in Secret Invasion oh no we looked this up Gaia Gaia Gaia Gaia yeah he'll be coming for her as well and then and then he'll find no trace of her because no one can remember that Secret Invasion exists I completely forgot that she was in the MCU when you said Emilia Clarke I think she does too I think I think if you said to her, Amelia, oh, it must have been fun for you shooting secret evasion.

42:40Chris Hewitt:Say what? What was that? I think she'd Gwyneth it. Yeah. Yeah. I think she's been neuralized of that. A friend of mine posited an absolutely wild batshit theory about Doom. But I'm going to say it to you guys now. Okay. All right. I'm ready. Doom is Franklin. No. Cash the check. I'm in. Yeah, no. No, I don't like that. Thank you very much. You don't like it, but search your feelings, you know it to be almost certainly bullshit. I mean, like, it is possible. It is possible, right? But I don't like it, so I reject it. Why don't you like it? I feel like we've been there before. When? Lost in space in the year 1999.

43:28Chris Hewitt:But not in the McHugh. Or 1998. That's what I call the MCU, but I now realize you can be confused with Chris McQuarrie. I could be confused, yes.

43:39Chris Hewitt:What if, for example, the reason we haven't seen Doom's face is because Robert Downey Jr. wasn't set that day, obviously. And obviously they want to keep the reveal for Doomsday. But what if it's because he's getting Franklin to feel his own face because he is Franklin. Why would he be getting Franklin to feel his own face if he's Franklin? Why would he need Franklin to feel his face? Look, I am Franklin and you can feel, Yeah, but Franklin is four. Like, what's he going to do? If I met my baby self, the first thing I'd do is get him to fill my face. Maybe that doesn't make sense because then, as we know from Time Cop, the universe would explode.

44:17Chris Hewitt:One of them would explode or the universe would end. I don't think that's MCU rules. I think Time Cop may come under the Back to the Future pile of like, are you telling me Back to the Future is rubbish? Are you dissing Time Cop? No, I'm saying that the MCU would diss Time Cop. I don't think the MCU would embrace Time Cop. The MCU embraced, there was a film that we saw several times in the background. Did you see this? Sub-Zero Intel. Sub-Zero Intel, yes. I was intrigued by that. Second time around, I'll actually write down the name of the star of this and the director of it. Was it Aiden somebody, I think?

44:49Chris Hewitt:The director was Aiden something, but the star was something else. Gregory or George or something. Yeah, something like that. But Greg Cartel, I think it was his name. That sounds vaguely familiar. Yeah, I want to spend more time looking at posters in the background now, if I'm honest. There was some fun stuff going on. It was a very, very well-realized world. I enjoyed that the Fantastic Four's spacecraft was Excelsior in this reality because that's been another reality from the mainstream Marvel reality, I think, in the comics. But I think it's, you know, always fun to bring that into comics.

45:19Chris Hewitt:Yeah, but they needed someone to say, Excelsior! Excelsior! Excelsior! Well, sadly, that time of those cameos has passed. Nice not to Stan Lee, though. I enjoyed that. Oh, Helen's bummed everyone out. Sorry. By reminding us that Stan Lee is no longer with us. thanks a bunch Helen sorry Harry what else did you think about this movie anything you liked anything you disliked we haven't really talked about the main FF we've talked around the four of them but did you like the depictions of the four themselves I think the casting is fantastic I think each of them captures the characters really well I think in particular I warmed a lot towards Ben and Johnny I like that we get Johnny using his brain in this one quite a lot and he becomes quite a big part of the plot but mainly just the dynamic between them all like when they're joking and if anything i could like i've had a little bit more of the banter between them but like when they were all joking with each other i was just like oh i missed this from marvel films like actually like good kind of like dynamics between all of them where it feels like it's been a little bit even like thunderbolts i didn't really get as much as that as i wanted to um like from the off here you just felt like they were a family and i think it's probably the biggest praise i have for the film that they just managed to get that down straight away.

46:29And also just, I'm going to bring her up again, Silver Surfer. Big fan of her in this film. She has some very cool action scenes when she was surfing on dust near the sun. I was just like, this is crazy. I had a good time with it. That whole sequence is great. Favourite in the film. Funny how they've realised what a neutron star looks like since they went to Eitri's forge. Was it dust she was surfing on? I don't know what she was surfing on. Well, that's, I mean, that's a very sort of interstellar looking neutron star incipient black hole situation. So basically like a star burns out all its fuel and so all the basically the, I'm going to get this wrong the electrons and the protons have kind of cancelled each other out so all that's left in all the atoms is a neutron so like the star collapses down and down and down and becomes more and more and more dense and then it eventually collapses in on itself and becomes a black hole I believe.

47:21So the neutron star is the stage just before a black hole where a star would be vastly smaller than the sun, but way, way more. Because it isn't a visual medium, I'm nodding and looking blankly at it.

47:35Chris Hewitt:It'll happen to us one day, you just want to be around when it happens. Hooray! Because before that'll happen, the sun will expand hugely. It'll become less hot. White giant, then red dwarf. A red giant, then a red dwarf. Anyway, something like that. Who are we, Brian Cox? Then a neutron star and then a black hole. It will engulf Earth one day. The sun will actually engulf, physically engulf Earth. But we're talking billions of years. Yeah, don't worry. It's not next Tuesday. Just want to thank you both for the existential crisis that I'll be having. Well, this movie kind of triggers that. And one of the interesting things about this film was that, you know, it does park the snark, which is something that, you know, the people level at the MCU that a lot of the characters sound the same and they all have the same withering put-downs and all the same sort of quippy comebacks And yeah, there's a little bit of that.

48:25Chris Hewitt:But Reed isn't dropping one-liners in this movie. Sue certainly isn't. And there's a real emphasis on emotion and on the gravity of the situation that they're facing as well. Especially around the neutron star. Am I right? Am I right? And I really liked that. I liked how emotional the ending was. And if it didn't work for you, then you can't say that it didn't try at least to reach for a certain type of emotion. Yeah. Agreed on that. A read on that. Oh no. Just on Silver Surfer I think both Julia Garner and Ralph Ineson got the voices right. They felt very otherworldly. Julia Garner especially when she's bursting onto the scene and being her herald and doing her herald things.

49:21basically heralding is what she was doing I herald can I it felt

49:26Chris Hewitt:yeah let that line I herald his beginning I herald your end you guys are fucked it's not really his beginning isn't it I mean his arrival more than his beginning I'm just saying yeah that's true but then I herald I herald his arrival I herald your departure but are they departing really yeah I know it's just not as neat as she's trying to make it sound I think she's more vibes based. I think she was going for a vibe. And the vibe was, you're all fucked. Yeah, essentially. But yeah, she was great and Ralph Heineson as Galactus has a big booming voice and it's just cool that he's not a cloud anymore.

50:03Chris Hewitt:Oh my God. I was so happy to see my boy Galactus on the big screen. I'm sad that he was ultimately usurped and beaten by those damned do-gooders, the FF, who basically I know the Silver Surfer did it ultimately but Drop kicked him through a portal and we should talk about portals in this movie and in Superman by the way but yeah what I got of Galactus was great that sequence is so good and early reactions to this movie have ranged from the ecstatic I can't speak have ranged from the ecstatic people who saw the movie early in the States to people going oh there's not a lot of action in it and I think that's fair there's not a lot of quote unquote action scenes in it there are basically two major action sequences but they're both absolutely terrific I'm not going to say fantastic that sequence the extended one from the moment they take off in Excelsior and they then basically come back and then Reed does his befuddled press conference you've had a month to prepare man what are you doing?

51:11he's been looking after a newborn baby also

51:13Chris Hewitt:draft a draft a draft and because of the relativistic speeds at which they've been traveling it may not have been a full month I'm just saying it might have been well for Lem maybe less yeah for people on earth yeah it's been a full month on earth but it hasn't been for them it might have been a day yeah still he could have written a speech he's had a newborn baby he's the world's smartest man he comes back and he's like I haven't really got a speech but anyway we went to see Galactus he's also shell-shocked he wanted my baby but I said no anyway you're all okay with that bye he's been stressing probably also about trying to figure out a way out You're cutting him far too much fucking slack.

51:49Chris Hewitt:That's all I'm saying. Anyway, that sequence is terrific because it's unlike anything we've seen in any of the great Fantastic Four movies that we have seen in the past. And the idea that they are explorers of other realms is something that is so intrinsic to the Fantastic Four. The negative zone is such a huge part of them in the comic books. And the fact that they are, They're space explorers, they're space travelers, they're astronauts. I loved that aspect of it. And there was just a sense of doom about that sequence. There was a sense of scale. There was a sense of otherworldliness that made it feel really fresh and new and exciting in the MCU, even though we have been to space within this franchise before.

52:33Yes, I think I also just love the way they did it. The sort of faster than light drive attachment for their Excelsior was beautiful. that's like proper cool sci-fi shit. Yes. Right there, very happy with that. I did kind of feel like they hadn't been in space much since it happened. No, not at all. You know, there was the whole thing about Johnny itching to go back, about Reed leaving the suits undeveloped. So, hopefully...

52:57Chris Hewitt:I think he had space PTSD, essentially. Yes, I think he did. I think it's very clear that Reed's massive sense of responsibility for his friends, this repeated thing that it was my fault that this happened to us. very much he takes on everybody's problems onto himself. And that's one of the reasons why fatherhood is so terrifying to him because it's like this whole other set of problems that he has to take on. But I think that it's nice to see them getting back there. And it also does kind of then potentially set up some more stuff for Doomsday, right? It potentially sets up some more trouble to get into.

53:32I really like that space scene because it just gives everyone on the ship a clear role to do and V doesn't even need to say much they're clearly all on the same page they know what they need to do and they just go about doing it it's really I like how smart everyone is the sense of a well-oiled team exactly and everyone it's not like everyone has their own strengths but they also take over each other's jobs as necessary to get the team through I thought that was really good I didn't feel the lack of action but then I do like my sitting around talking scenes

54:07Chris Hewitt:yeah we love it How many times do we say we just hang out with the characters? Exactly. And I feel like too often they're so busy giving us an action scene every 10 minutes to keep some algorithm happy that we don't get the parts we actually want to invest in. I think this one did a good job of trying to get us to invest in these characters. You don't care about Sue effectively dying at the end of the movie or Johnny about to make the sacrifice that he's about to make until he's nudged out of the way by this little surfer. If you don't have those scenes beforehand, if it's just Sturmund's drying, then what are we doing?

54:40Chris Hewitt:but what did you make of that space scene in particular Harry in terms of Galactus' introduction I thought that was pretty damned impressive Matt Shackman I think really knocked it out of the park in terms of the visuals of that where he's somewhere lurking on the ship you can sense the sense of scale and then suddenly the eyes and then the helmet I'm not getting around he's got a massive helmet and there we are as an audience as one getting to grips with Galactus's massive helmet. Yeah, I think that's just like a massive build-up too. The whole space section in general was my favourite in the whole film.

55:17But yeah, the slow build-up to meeting Galactus and then just seeing the eyes come out of the dark and the sense of scale. Yeah, I loved all of that stuff. I think although we've had a lot of cosmic stuff in the MCU, it's often very gonzo, very wild. I kind of like that this was still very cosmic, but also felt weirdly quite grounded. Like you were with them as people from Earth just going to see this otherworldly thing for the first time. So you almost feel like there was a bit of anxiety around it. And that's not something we get loads from the MCU. So I kind of like that point of view of it all.

55:54Even with the black hole.

55:55Chris Hewitt:There was genuine peril. You were sitting beside me, Helen, and a couple of times you were almost covering your eyes. What's going to happen? Because we know Galactus is coming. And then when he's just massive, it's like... Well, massive helmet. But also when he sort of fades up out of the darkness, that's a classic Michael Myers moment. That's Halloween right there, you know? There's a moment as well when he, I think you jumped. Can I ruin your cool? Yeah, that's fine. I'm not cool. Whenever he's been knocked through the portal. He comes back out again. And then Ben's like, well, that worked.

56:22Chris Hewitt:And then his hand emerges Carrie-like from the portal. I was like, why have you still got the portal open? Why are none of you standing near the portal? Close the motherfucking portal. Jesus. There's always a timer. We got him in 10 seconds early. God. That's a bad idea. I also had a reaction to that. It was not expected. But yeah, I fully agree with everything you're saying, Harry, about that space sequence. That sense of scale is immense. And not only... We sort of experienced Galactus for the first time, but Reed and Fantastic Four, obviously they've seen some stuff, but their reaction to seeing Galactus pop up is sort of very clearly, they're shook as well.

57:04And yeah, it's again, he's not a girl.

57:06Chris Hewitt:They've seen John Malkovich. We haven't. Have they? Have they? But they haven't. And then suddenly Reed is awestruck by this, as you would be if a several hundred feet tall bloke. from leads appeared. And completely paralyzed by it as well. I think that's really important. I will say, everybody else does keep turning to him to solve their problems. So that is the dynamic in the Fantastic Four. And we can have a discussion about how healthy that is. Because they're all kind of waiting for, they keep looking to him for leadership. They keep looking to him to have a plan when they're in that sort of, when they're FTL trying to get away from Galactus with the Silver Surfer Chasing.

57:50yeah and that's i think that's i know that's the dynamic yeah but think about the pressure it puts on him and that's what we see in this film we see him being absolutely crushed by that pressure and absolutely immobilized by it because he's like holy shit i have no idea how to defeat this guy and everyone's looking to me and my wife is pregnant and literally the fate of the world is in my hands yeah and i don't fucking know he's 300 feet tall what am i fucking godzilla Like, he is totally, totally shaken by it. And it takes him like half the film with everybody's help to get over that. I mean, quite frankly, if you think about it, his initial thing is to take the world away from Galactus.

58:34It is far simpler in the end to take Galactus away from the world, but it takes him the entire film to think of that.

58:42Chris Hewitt:Yeah. I'm surprised Galactus didn't see that coming in a way. Okay, so Galactus, you know, I adore that character. I have a massive Galactus action figure that dominates my office. He does, it's true. Yeah, I adore Galactus. One of the greatest designs of all time. Hats off to Jack Kirby. No relation to Vanessa, of course. But what did you make of the depiction of Galactus in this movie? Will people have questions? so the questions I think the film poses but doesn't answer among others are how does the silver surfer what is her criteria for choosing a planet for Galactus to chomp on does it have to be inhabited planets does that get his rocks off for example we have nine, well eight planets in the solar system and some of them are massive have a go at Jupiter mate and no one's going to stop you.

59:40Chris Hewitt:It's totally fine. I don't care if you eat Jupiter. Munch away, Galactus. But why does it have to be Earth? That's question number one. Question number two is, are you satisfied with how Galactus's powers are depicted in this? Because we're told that he is billions of years old. He is an entity of extreme power. He can create the Silver Surfer and give the Silver Surfer just a little smidgen of the Paracosmic and the Silver Surfer is incredibly powerful. That's nothing next to Galactus. he could smite the FF like bugs he calls them clever little bugs later on in the movie yet he doesn't choose to do so Silver Surfer could travel at light speed but Galactus' spaceship just kind of goes along like a little Morris Minor driving up the M1 well in fairness it must go faster than light just to get here my answer to the second question would be I think he's still planning on smiting he just wants to get Franklin first Franklin is the key.

1:00:37Yeah.

1:00:38Chris Hewitt:I think were he successful at acquiring Franklin... He'd be so affronted by what they've said. The very fact that these gnats can talk to him pisses him off. It would have been swiftly followed by a smiting. Wouldn't he be able to just lift up Franklin, though? Just take him from the wreckage? Anyway, that's me being difficult. In answer to question one, I wonder if it's part of a healthy, balanced diet. I wonder if he needs a variety of planets. I'm not even kidding. Entirely. I do think there may be, like, because he had several planets in that one system. But, like, maybe he can't just have gas giants because he would get gassy.

1:01:12And he needs, like, some small rocky planets like ours. So I think it's probably a mix of things. But I think Galactus himself, you know, is kind of a bad guy. What? Kind of.

1:01:24Chris Hewitt:What? Well, it's not just hunger. He also does, I think, need inhabited planets on occasion. Right? so I think that's part of a healthy balanced diet for him all I keep thinking is Galactus has IBS I think he needs probiotics and the probiotics in this case are us or equivalent Galactus has IBS that's what I'm going with he's definitely eaten inhabited planets because that's why the voice transmissions that Johnny plays oh yeah we know that for sure but why only inhabited planets I don't think it is only but I think it is a necessity maybe What food category does F fit into, do we think? I'm just saying probiotics.

1:02:08Probiotics. Yeah, or prebiotics. I'm not sure.

1:02:11Chris Hewitt:Are we like, what is it, Actimel or whatever it's called? Yes. Or is that the bad guy in the Smurfs? No, that's fine. Actimel, yeah. That's Gargamel. Okay. Well, you do Gargactimel. Anyway. I don't know what's happening anymore. But yes, I was very, very happy with how Galactus was portrayed. Maybe, I mean, this is nitpicking, but maybe a little bit obvious with the old CG. But then how else are you going to portray a 300-foot-tall deity? Yeah, I didn't think his CG was bad. I thought poor Franklin's was probably worse. What? CG baby, you're very, very sleepy, CG baby. You're also very creepy.

1:02:49Having a rock monster hold a baby is a difficult thing.

1:02:53Chris Hewitt:In one hand as well. Well, obviously he's not going to need two hands, is he? That poor baby bouncing around. I think sometimes the baby for the most part is real, but just the rotoscoping and whatnot and compositing is not the best. I did feel there was some really cool CG where Sue sort of phases her chest so you could see the baby inside her. That was very pretty. I thought that was very well done. You said you had some nits to pick or you had some comments to make about Sue and her use in the movie. Well, it is the sort of trope that a woman is moved to incredible feats only by motherhood.

1:03:32And that has been done to death before. That's not new. That's not fresh. So, you know, but at the same time, it kind of, you know, does work. There was one time I nearly drowned and my mom, who is like five foot nothing, basically hauled me out of a pond one-handed from beside the pool, you know. So, like, it can move you to incredible things. But it also is a bit of a cliche, maybe. So there was stuff like that. And then if you think about it, she doesn't have as much of an arc, maybe, in terms of, like, she doesn't develop as a character in the way that maybe Reed does, I think, in this movie.

1:04:11And everybody else has to kind of reckon with some stuff. I think she's kind of idealized at the beginning and is quite sane about the pregnancy throughout. And is quite sane about the threats that they face and just has a quite serene confidence in everyone around her to fix things. And maybe that is her power in itself, but there isn't a lot of development from her. She's just sort of great to begin with and is great at the end.

1:04:40Chris Hewitt:Yeah. Again, nits to pick. I didn't dislike her and I thought she was given more respect and more deference, frankly, by this film than the comics have often done. It took until 2019, I think, for her to ever have her own standalone comic. Right. She had loads, you just couldn't see them. No one could see them though, Chris. That's the problem. And so it's marked in comparison to the rest of the four, I'm just saying. Yeah. So it's good to see her get her due in this film and for her to be so pivotal to the final action scene, even though, like I say, I have a tiny niggle with the trope behind it.

1:05:18Chris Hewitt:Yeah, but I don't know how else you get around that, really. I mean, I thought it was quite powerful. I did think it was powerful. I'm just saying it's a powerful thing that we have seen before. That's all I'm saying. True, but as you say, a little bit of a cliche, but again, there is truth in cliches. I think that when she comes to the four at the end, Fantastic Four, it worked for me. What do you make of the It's Clubber in Time, say the phrase, moment? I think they made too much of it in the marketing, and it made it feel tired by the time they got to it in the film. Yeah. Same. Yeah. Yeah.

1:05:55Chris Hewitt:Also, it doesn't do a lot to Galactus. It just gets like a slightly, ow. Ow. What are you doing? Stop that. It felt like the one part of their banter that felt a bit when that line finally comes. I was like, this doesn't feel like them. They've not been like this the whole film. Why has this suddenly come now? So yeah, I feel like you said, Helen, the marketing made a big part of it and by the time you actually hear it, you're like, cool. I'm glad we got that over and done with. But the Sue thing was really interesting because it reminded me a little bit of Wanda in the battle of Wakanda why was she up there this whole time it was a little bit like that where she really steps up obviously to the point that it kills her which is not ideal, you should probably not do that whereas everyone else had had their asses kicked to a huge extent I'm still not, as I said, I'm still not 100 % sold on the reed stretching effects but I did like that moment when Galactus was basically just pulling him apart like a little toy going, oh, this is what they do.

1:06:49Chris Hewitt:I didn't know they could stretch this far. This is incredible. It does raise questions about, you know, how far Reed could stretch without breaking apart and just his intestines flopping to the ground, which is the sort of thing you don't want to see in a PG-13 rated movie. It briefly gave me vibes of, what was it, Multiverse of Madness and what happens to that Reed. Yes, yeah. it's not good no it's not good I think the effects are getting marginally better because Ms. Marvel obviously has a similar type of power it did not look great in that show but it looks a little bit better here than it does it's just a tricky thing to do there's a point towards the end where he is using his stretching powers to climb Galactus and the Pedro figure look for me just looked completely fake but they're getting there it's a lot better than it used to be when it was Ewan Griffith stretching.

1:07:48I have a Pedro question. What do you make of him as a movie star post this film? Because the thing that I've been saying about him as he's been on this incredible long is that he's a really great TV star but I don't think movie star is not what I call him yet and I was waiting on this film to see how he would fare because he's in Gladiator 2 but I don't think he's well served in that film with the character. and I think he's been in a couple of other films but in sort of side supporting roles. Here he's front, he's lead, he's centre. What do you make of Pedro as a leading man, movie star after this film?

1:08:25I think before this film he was a movie star. Really? Yes. I don't think it matters about the size of the roles. I think it matters about the attention the world is giving you and he was there already and has been for a little while now. With TV, I'd say absolutely yes. There isn't a divide anymore. I would always say the internet is obsessed with this man so he's already a film star like in the eyes of everyone he's massive yeah although please stop asking the daddy question he's we've all had enough of that my goodness but yeah

1:08:58Chris Hewitt:I don't think there's a question to ask really? yeah not at all did you? yeah hence when we just asked oh clearly you do yeah no I don't think there's a question to ask I think he's incredibly charismatic I think he's very very good in this movie agreed he really gets to the emotion of Reed and the core of Reed's nature in a way that I don't think any of the let me count them one, two, three and one week well including one week haven't seen because I haven't seen the Roger Corman one and apparently it's on YouTube but I still don't really fancy going to see it I feel a bit grubby but okay so that's Alex Hyde-White it is Miles Teller sorry Miles Odometer and and Ewan Griffith yeah and I think he just he just absolutely gets read he blows them out of the water I will say in terms of your if your question is can he open a movie that's a different question and I think that's almost no one has that ability anymore in every single film but that's a different question from Indian movie star and I think he is a movie star yeah I think he very much is Joseph Quinn is perhaps a more interesting question I really liked him I thought he was really charismatic and a lot more fun than I maybe expected him to be because I have an image of him in my head I think totally unfairly as quite a serious actor.

1:10:19Having said that I do feel like Hollywood needs to stop giving him blonde hair and we've seen it in Gladiator 2 and we're seeing it here. Let the man be brunette my god it is time. His coloring does look weird with the Johnny Storm look. It didn't, the coloring just didn't sit right on his skin tone for me. So that was genuinely quite distracting. But he as a performance and as a character I really enjoyed. Yeah. I think I got more of the humor and I enjoyed more of the humor in Chris Evans' Human Torch. But in terms of what they do with the character, I much prefer what they do with him here than they do in the 2000 films.

1:10:59Just like, I like how smart he is. I like how important he is to the story. He gets a number of multiple really cool big moments especially with Silver Surfer that the film sort of turns on in a big way and I don't remember that type of thing sort of being given to that character in previous portrayals that we've seen so yeah What about what about you Harry? No I like Joseph Quinn I think everything I've seen him in in the last few years he's been great in and I think he fits into this role really well I think like Echoing you said he has some really great scenes with the Silver Surfer I just think he's a very charming Johnny Storm and I liked his dynamic with everyone on the team I feel like I don't have much to say on that one I feel like he's just very solid in it

1:11:46Chris Hewitt:what about Eber Moss Bacharach as Ben Grimm aka The Thing because again, that was something in the stuff I had seen trailers in the first 20 minutes CG, we'll get to that in a second but in terms of the choices he makes as a character because we only see him as Ben Grimm in a couple of very, very small flashbacks. We see him entirely as the thing, although he's never called the thing. What do you make of the choices he makes, sir? Because he doesn't do the obvious thing, which is the voice changes. The voice is the same. And the voice isn't rocked up, so to speak. Did you like that? I liked him, yeah.

1:12:27I thought he had a lot of kind of heart to him and a sort of hangdog quality that I thought fit quite well, especially when he's kind of walking around the streets. He's a bit hunched up on himself. He's not exactly loud and proud of himself. And I think that's interesting. Hopefully it gives us some stuff to work with with the character and some places to go. I do want to see him meet Hulk, especially if he's in kind of Professor Hulk mode. I think that could be quite fun. Especially to see him hang out with She-Hulk. That could be really fun. We'll never see her again, will we? Anyway. Sounds like that.

1:12:58But yeah, I thought he was lovely. And I admit you were kind of right. It did feel like half a story for him, half a story arc in terms of his relationship with Rachel, if that's what it was going to be. Rachel! But yeah, he was charming. Okay. Who doesn't love to see a big man holding a baby all the time? Come on, that's cute. I think it's also quite nice to see a other thing that doesn't hate himself. Because I feel like in previous adaptations, he's always kind of had a bit of self-loathing about him. this guy's just a guy he's showing off in front of the kids making them all laugh there was like an earnestness about him that I really enjoyed

1:13:34Chris Hewitt:I think that element's there though because there's that moment where he stares himself in the window he sees his reflection there's like a couple of little glimmers of it isn't there and I think the storyline with Rachel Rachel is that he does anyone get that reference? by the way I'm on surely you would have caught it no Dark Knight oh come on I just we watched that film too in case people wonder why I was just yelling the word Rachel into the microphone but that whole storyline with Natasha Lyonne I think was meant to be ultimately that Beauty and the Beast and would she reject him and he doesn't have the confidence to ask her out even though they're clearly attracted to each other and it just doesn't get resolved you don't feel that as much just because there's no definitive end or resolution to it it's a waste of her quite frankly she's great I just like that we see Ben as more than just a character that can sort of lift heavy stuff and punch stuff.

1:14:32And like, he's a pilot, a very, very good pilot, gets them out of that space problem, space jam, you could say. Oh no. And yeah, he enjoys being himself when he's around kids. He has that very limited, but it's their relationship with Natasha and Leon. We see him in other respects rather than just in action mode all the time. and we also see him with a beard what did you make of the beard? I like the beard I thought we were good on him big fan of the beard he's got a weird shaped face otherwise I also just really enjoyed him kind of you know that scene at the window with Reed I really really like that I loved the first of all Reed's enormous sense of lingering responsibility for him you get that a little bit in that scene but you also have him needling Reed for his absolute lack of skills in any key area that isn't being super smart.

1:15:27Chris Hewitt:That was fun. Can you cook? Well, it's more of an art than a science. What about your driving test? Baking is more of a science than an art, so Reid should really get into baking. He would be really great. What about your driving test? That was poor signage. They've cut this out of the film, but in one of the trailers, I think, there's a scene with Sue and Reid and they're talking in bed. Hello. I knew you were going to go there. Is that where the kids are calling it these days? Talk it wasn't the important part. But Sue is like saying like Ben has always been our rock as part of the monologue that she has.

1:16:01It's been cut out of the film. But you can see that. Release the Shackman cut.

1:16:06Chris Hewitt:Yeah. Yeah, release the Malkovich cut. Give Malkovich this to cut and we'll see what happens. Yeah. The Ben-Reed relationship is really interesting in the comics and I think they could maybe develop that a little bit more down the line. But you just reminded me of one of my favorite Reed scenes because he's not the, you know, For someone who can stretch, he is flopping a lot in this movie. And the scene, I think it's with Sue, where he kind of basically lays out how he feels about that big brain of his. And it's not a gift, it's a curse. And what he does is he imagines the worst possible scenario, is then terrified by it to the extent that he tries to make sure that it never happens.

1:16:50Chris Hewitt:And that drives him. And that was a really, really interesting insight into Reed. Who in the comics can have a really dark side and kind of almost like a, not megalomaniacal side, but there is a really selfish, ruthless side of that. I thought that was really, really well laid out here because I think it is a human thing and it is something that people do. And particularly, again, I think he's neurodivergent and I think neurodivergent people sometimes do it, which is to hyperfixate on issues which fits his whole modus operandi, right? But also this idea that he, having thought of a bad scenario, he then has to work to turn it aside and to fix it.

1:17:32It goes right to the heart of why he is so frustrated that he can't fix everything for his friends, why he still feels so responsible even if they have all adjusted to their new lives as superheroes because it is still, he says, it's still his fault. And that calculus that he makes about his son which even, you know, even Sue can't go with him on. And even Sue is like, whoa, hang on here. But that whole idea that, you know, he has calculated, yes, rationally, we absolutely should give over Franklin. If it's one life to save the world, of course, morally, rationally, that's the thing that we should do, right?

1:18:11But it's also, you know, he is not going there, but he has had to think through that option before he can get past that and start looking at other scenarios. He has to think through it. You can't wish away your problems. You have to face them clear on because he's got that big a brain. He can't not. I just thought that was great. And it does, yes, absolutely leave the door open to a slightly darker read, the sort of World War Hulk read. Illuminati read. The Illuminati read that we've seen in the future where he takes ruthless action. And also we see it actually on a very small scale in this film, which is the baby-proofing the city, baby-proofing the world thing, where he basically has somehow surveilled every crime boss in the city or every supervillain in the city and got them all arrested right before his child is due to be born.

1:19:02Yeah. You know, that on a much bigger scale is Illuminati, Reed, right? Like that is him going to extreme lengths to protect the people that he loves. And they've set all of that up here as well. and it just makes him he's such a good character in this film it's a great performance it's also a great piece of writing about Reed I love him

1:19:22Chris Hewitt:absolutely great movie star performance there from Pedro going to wrap it up in two seconds there's a couple of very very quick things I want to talk about we talked about Franklin to an extent but we haven't really talked about Franklin as in the idea that Franklin's in this movie at all which is interesting it's the Fantastic Four first steps and clearly that's a baby reference as well. But I would, if you'd said to me, at what point will, in the MCU, Franklin Richards come into it, I would have said, maybe FF2, maybe at a stretch FF3. I didn't think we'd be meeting a little blighter halfway through the first movie.

1:20:01Chris Hewitt:What did you make of that, Harry? And what did you make of him full stop? The idea that they have this super powerful baby who might be able to tip the cosmic scales one way or the other. I don't know why, but I kept on waiting for something like Jack-Jack in The Incredibles to happen. I don't know why for the whole film. But no, I really, really liked Franklin. I did kind of like that he became the plot device. It wasn't just like, it wasn't just saving the world. It was also saving the little baby. I thought that was really nice. Kind of going off on tangent. I was like, is Franklin a mutant?

1:20:36And is this kind of like the kickstart of X-Men in this universe? They've done so many kickstarts of X-Men. This is the one I'm on. This is the one. No, no. They kickstarted it with the idea of Ms. Marvel. They kickstarted it in Multiverse of Madness. And it's still to come in. You know what I'm saying? I love the idea in the comics that Franklin allows himself to use his powers once a year as a treat, which has sometimes been the case. But we could get into sort of Power Pack in the future.

1:21:06Chris Hewitt:We should, because those guys fucking rock. It'd be fun for the kids, you know? Because not every superhero movie needs to be for 40-year-old men. But, yeah, I think it's good. Again, it's good to just show us different kinds of heroes. If they're all childless and unmarried, but also not fucking about, you know, where's the interest there? Like, come on, you've got to have different textures to play with. You've got to have different ideas going on. And I think this story shows that if you give your hero a family, it gives you a lot to play with. I like Franklin's inclusion in this again it helps make this iteration of the Fantastic Four different to what has come before and also if your theory about Doomsday and siphoning power etc is correct and I think it might be then doing all that stuff up front here helps out later down the line too One last question about Doom Of course The Doom that we see at the end of the movie Do we think that's the doom that exists in that world?

1:22:09Chris Hewitt:Or has he come from another dimension, another dimension, another dimension, another dimension? That is a good question. I would say it's this world. That's so pointed about Latveria and nobody being there that it feels like this is a doom from this world. It would also make sense that if we are going forward into a new shared, you know, or mixed universe, that they share a common route which would continue that link between the Fantastic Four and Doom. Doom. Doom. But yeah, I just, I wish we had gotten the history between Doom and Reed and Doom and so many characters before we hit the Doomsday Secret Wars, Ben.

1:22:53But alas.

1:22:55Chris Hewitt:Yeah, maybe it's nice that they don't really know each other. I don't know. Is this the last movie before? No, it's Spider-Man Brand New Day. is that before yeah it was meant to be after but now it is before and they've stuck that release date so maybe they've tweaked the storyline a little bit to reflect that I think there'll be a couple of TV shows hitting there but yeah this is yeah there's Wonder Man and Daredevil Born Again Season 2 and Vision Quest and Vision Quest but how much of an impact they have on Doomsday and Secret Wars I would imagine not very much a bit negligible I don't know I know that It's such a huge enterprise and they can't just fill a slot by going, okay, we've moved Doomsday back now.

1:23:40Chris Hewitt:Let's pump another movie in there. But I do feel like we could have done with one more. And also the gap now between this movie. This movie does well. And again, we're recording this literally a couple of hours after we've seen the movie. We have no idea how it's going to do at the box office. My feeling all along this year is that the first two would do around 400 or 500 million and this one would do about 600 million. I'm not so sure now. I honestly can't tell. I don't know where Superman's going to end up. The box office this summer has been very weird. And this could be anywhere from 500 million to 800 million.

1:24:18Chris Hewitt:I think it's going to be the biggest Marvel movie of the year, but hopefully it'll be a big hit. And hopefully it'll leave people going, I want to see The Fantastic Four again, and now they have a year and a half to wait, which isn't ideal. Well, that's not a crazy amount of time, though. in this day and age where you have to wait two years for a TV show, for God's sake. A year and a half is not the worst. I do think this could do well, not least because it is the first Marvel movie in a little while that, for example, my small niece and nephew could go and see. You know, it's not horrifying or scary or too adult for, I would say, most kids around the seven, eight year...

1:24:55Chris Hewitt:They did like Deadpool and Wolverine? They would have loved it. my niece kept calling it Deadpool and Bumblebee which is another movie I would watch that's a movie I'd hate to see god damn it but and they were very keen to watch it but they were they were not allowed so but I think this like there's nothing really that I think would be terribly upsetting for them in this one and that might help the box office the fact that you can bring your kids and it was being advertised in front of like How to Train Your Dragon and things like that this weekend it's not just being advertised in front of the sort of you know the Supermans and the Mission Impossible and things like that so first weekend is going to be huge.

1:25:32We've talked about like 150 plus. US or worldwide? US. I was thinking about how much Superman made and sort of was comparing it to that. I don't think it's going to make Superman numbers. No. Interesting. The second weekend I think is going to be very interesting how much it drops off. But we talked about it in the build of this, but Marvel have really marked the hell out of this film. So a lot of eyes on it. And, you know, people love movie star Pedro Pascal. Correct.

1:26:07Chris Hewitt:I think they should call it the new Thunderbolts and put an asterisk on there at the end of the day. Honestly, I don't know. I don't think it's going to do Superman numbers. You have it opening bigger than Superman. The same as Superman. I don't know. I honestly don't know. Historically, the FF hasn't made that big a splash on the big screen if you look at the previous the two Tim Story movies and forget all about the Josh Trank movie because that was pretty much a disaster from beginning to end so I don't know I mean it would be it would be interesting to see if it did open big because it's been a bit of a mixed bag at the box office this year for the MCU Brave New World at just over 400 million which you know back in the day would have been great.

1:26:59Chris Hewitt:And even, again, this year, this weird year at the box office, it's not bad, but it's not brilliant. And in Thunderbolts, which for my money is the best of the MCU movies this year, Correct. it didn't even come close to that. Yeah. But then Marvel are clearly happy with it because they've gone, all right, Jake Schreier, you can do X-Men. Yeah. I never expected Thunderbolts to do big numbers though. But what did they expect it to do? And that's the key. you think they expected to do big numbers yes really yeah they didn't expect to make 384 million dollars at the worldwide box office that's for sure but again if they'd been angry with the movie itself I think internally at Marvel Jake Schreier would not have got another Marvel movie let alone X-Men so I think that's that's a show of confidence and faith in him and that they were happy with Thunderbolts and as I've said before in previous Sportage Specials they may have to cut their cloth to suit a little bit and Feige's talked about that this week.

1:27:56Chris Hewitt:He's talked about having to cut some budgets and look at things and, you know, that might be partly on two hour and under mandate, which I think won't apply to Dume's Day, but will apply to most movies released under the Marvel Studios umbrella, I would say. But certainly there's been a re-evaluation, I think, of what these movies are going to make at the box office. You know, you're looking at 2022, that big banner year, although banner wasn't in any of those movies. 2022 is the year after No Way Home comes out, makes 1.9 million at the box office, then obviously Endgame billion, sorry. And then that would be terrible.

1:28:31Chris Hewitt:People would have been fired left, right, and center. You spent how much money in this Spider-Man movie and it's made 1.9 million? What have you done? So Endgame does what it does in 2019, and I believe there was a pandemic. Did you guys remember that? No, what happened? So 2022 is the year of Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness, Thor, Love and Thunder, and Black Panther, Wakanda Forever. I would not be amazed to find that they were expecting those movies to all hit a billion. None of them did. And that's kind of the beginning of the bloom coming off the rose a little bit. Confidence ebbing away.

1:29:03Chris Hewitt:Consumer confidence in Marvel Studios ebbing away. No longer a guarantee of a great time at the movies as it once was. And even something like Guardians 3, which is incredible, doesn't hit a billion. Which is in keeping with the Guardians franchise, but still. This is one of my favorite hobbies. But it feels to me like since then, obviously Deadpool Wolverine does what it does. But this year, there has been a little bit of a recalibration in what these movies do. I think they will have internally expected Brave New World to probably make five to six hundred million. And they'll have expected Thunderbolts to make five hundred million.

1:29:37Chris Hewitt:And then they've had to maybe cut their cloth to suit. FF, I wouldn't be surprised if they were going seven hundred to eight hundred million. Whether or not it gets there, I honestly don't know. I do think that they made a fundamental error. Disney made a fundamental error in training audiences that everything will be on streaming within three months. Agreed. Fully agreed. If anyone has killed the golden goose, it was they themselves. The call is coming from inside the house. But clearly, it's still possible for movies to make a billion theatrically. You kind of need to be an event. And look, the publicity and everything for this has been on point.

1:30:15they have been really making an effort together in the same way that Superman did. I think that the publicity campaigns for both of those this year have been very impressive in terms of raising awareness of films that people previously did not care about and leveraging the wild charm of their stars into bums on seats. I think that has been really key this year. It's one of the reasons why, yes, Pedro Pascal is a movie star because he is so charming. People want to go and see what he's doing in the same way that they did with David Cornswett, who people could not previously have picked out of a lineup, unless maybe by saying, well, that guy does kind of look like Superman, so maybe him?

1:30:51I don't know. So I think that is a big part of how well these movies are going to do if they do well. And I'm hopeful that that will translate into money for more of these movies. But I also just do think that the prices are getting crazy, and it's not all going to the movie itself. a lot of it is creative studio economics which they need to

1:31:15Chris Hewitt:bang on the head maybe a bit very much so alright time to wrap this bad boy up just want to ask one last question of you guys is this the best again we've only seen this once coming out of a fresh second third viewings may reveal nuances and things that you know I didn't I didn't come bouncing out of Infinity War for example now I would die to protect it yeah but really you didn't Do you remember this? He was weird. Chris was telling me this earlier. I was in the forecad, but I wasn't blown away by it. And honestly, I'm the same after a lot of MCU movies. I have to think about it. I have to let it kind of percolate for a little while.

1:31:57Chris Hewitt:I have to let it dance around my brain for a little bit. And I think I'm pretty much the same with this movie. But where do you guys stand on it in terms of A, the MCU movies of the year so far. So Brave New World, well, that's it. Brave New World Thunderbolts slash The New Avengers and this movie is this the best or do you think another one stands above? It might be the best it might be the best of the year for me it's obviously the only accommodation is Thunderbolts and it's definitely the best Fantastic Four movie for me and that is not close Okay yeah that's fair that's fair Thunderbolts is the best MCU movie of the year followed by this then there's a whole lot of stuff and then there's Brave New World which I did not like then there's Secret Invasion yeah I did not like Brave New World but this I'd say come to be the second best MCU film of the year probably the best Fantastic Four film as well I'm not as down on the Tim Story films as others are I do think there's good elements of it oh sure it just does there's a lot of corny and not so good elements of it that keep it in the very average ground.

1:33:12I think this is above average. Sorry. Yeah, I'd echo that. I think, sorry, I'd echo Helen. I think this is the best MCU film of the year by quite some bit. I enjoyed Thunderbolts, but it didn't really have any staying power with me. And I've kind of forgotten Brave New World already. This is the one where I came out actually feeling quite warm towards it, which I haven't probably since Guardians 3. And then before that, Shang-Chi. so it's nice to feel a strong emotional reaction to an MCU film again. Or a middlingly strong emotional reaction. Middlingly strong. English, can I speak it? No.

1:33:48Chris Hewitt:Ludicrously, this is the 37th movie in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Does it danger me speak English? That's impossible. This is ludicrously the 37th movie in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Does it endanger your top 10? is it around your top 20 is it in your top 30 or heaven for fend is it towards the bottom of your 37 it's top 20 I think probably it's very hard to remember between quantum mania and what brave new world okay I'm pretty sure it's top 20 but I'd have to like sit down and think about it and I'm not going to do that you have been sitting there over the last two hours yeah but I haven't been thinking about that I will at some point yeah top 20 20.

1:34:35Top 10 is not in question. It's not troubling that. Alright. Harry? I'll join the crowd. Top 20.

1:34:44Chris Hewitt:Doesn't come near the top 10. It's a good time. It's a good time. It's a good time at the movies. I will echo all of you. I will tell you something about Fantastic Four First Steps that does come into an overall top 10. Oh, here we go. Here we go. Here it is. Best movie robot. Fantastic Four. Cinematography. Fantastic production design

1:35:09Chris Hewitt:Fantastic editing What is it? Which branch of the arts are you searing in on here, Amon? I am, shockingly, Chris, going to go with Fantastic Score by Michael Cicchino. Wow. I think it's definitely top ten and might be top five MCU scores. I need to think about that, but it's in the discussion for sure. Michael Cicchino composer and yeah he's done it again an Incredibles composer all of his themes are so memorable and catchy but I can recite them right now that's hard to do but he is when it comes to thematic composition he is one of the very best work alright this is interesting first of all did he do the score for the Incredibles because I just did it yes he did otherwise I would look stupid and believe me I don't need any help looking stupid alright real quick because we have to do Superman after this.

1:36:02Chris Hewitt:We have to do part two of Superman. Helen and I were talking about the Syphestri-Chicchino question earlier on and I was going, well, you know, Syphestri's already done in Avengers and but Chicchino's done Chicchino's done Spider-Man, Doctor Strange and Fantastic Four themes and of course the Marvel Studios fanfare which is amazing. So that might make him the most important composer in the MCU. And then Helen said, I couldn't hum Doctor Strange and Spider-Man if you asked me to. so Amon you just said you could recite them all quickly Spider-Man go

1:37:01If anything, I can now recite it less than that. That was the longest 30 minutes ever, guys. Gosh.

1:37:09Chris Hewitt:Oh, you were in a black hole. The time moved over for a second. Doctor Strange, yeah. Oh, yeah, I remember that one.

1:37:29That's it.

1:37:32Chris Hewitt:On that literal note, do you know Thor Love and Thunder? nah no okay on that

1:37:46Chris Hewitt:I'm also top 20 by the way for this film okay on that note that is it for our The Fantastic Four first step spoiler special it is time to say goodbye to my fantastic three colleagues of such lethal cunning goodbye Harry Steiner it's fan four stick it is fan four stick there's no question about that goodbye I'm on warman peace peace be on to you my friend is toodaloo to Helena Harrod do you need to go to the loo before we do Superman part 2 no I'm okay you sure thanks bye bye I'm gonna hold it in as well I've got a bladder of fucking steel just like my old pal Galactus and speaking of Galactus I'm hungry anyone fancy a Mars he certainly does thanks for listening see you next time bye bye