This Is Not Journalism (The Empire Podcast ft. Souheila Yacoub)

25:39Like Paul is on like a whole other level. And I love the interplay between those characters. Now we can't spoil anything. Like it's Duncan, but it's not Duncan, but it is Duncan. Like there's a whole lot going on with Duncan that we don't want to spoil. But I love that that character in one form or another is back in this story. And also Robert Pattinson as Sightail. Yes, because this is not just Dune part three. This is also Zendaya and Robert Pattinson 2026 part three. After the drama, after the Odyssey, they are now on opposing sides once again, I would suggest, in Dune. They are. Exciting.

26:14He looks like a weirdo, as I expect from at least 50 % of Robert Pattinson roles. Can you tell us anything about his character? Saitel is a Tlylaxian face dancer. And that should tell you a lot of what you need to know about that. he's not a goodie I can tell you that it's slightly more complicated than that but he is certainly the architect of all Mwadib's pain in this particular film so and we do see that he is trying at least to conspire with with Irulan the Florence Q character introduced last time she's freaked out by this she's like as soon as you came to see me and decided to start a conspiracy you've signed both our death points are you not aware that my on-paper husband has psychic powers, you idiots.

26:58So it's going to be interesting to see how that develops. I like that idea because, I mean, that's a big part of this story is the fact that Paul has the sight so he sees things before they happen. Like he's guided by prophecy and so he can kind of see the future. So that makes it quite hard to sneak up on him and conspire against him, I would say, which is kind of cool. What else do we see in there? We see a little bit of the Normandy landing sequence in there. we see an ominous sarcophagus levitating, which I have a couple of thoughts as to what or who might be in there. But that's interesting.

27:32But just everything about it. Obviously, we've got a sandworm in there. You can't have a gym film without a sandworm. Honestly, like I... Yes, watching it on the iMac. A couple of babies as well. Yes, well, very specifically a couple of babies, yes. They may or may not become important. Yeah, like looking at this on the laptop screen as I just did again, it's still great. but seeing it on IMAX and I said this I was messaging afterwards and I was saying this is the most excited about film I have been since well let's be honest the last new film but so excited about it because you know and we've talked about Denis Villeneuve a lot but he has this incredibly arty sensibility that he applies to this kind of big grand sci-fi space opera you know world building and sort of essentially blockbuster filmmaking and there's an abstract quality to his visuals and his imagery and the stuff that he does that just blows my mind.

28:24So you've got this great story here, but there's something about the feel of it. It has an otherworldly alien texture beyond the fact that it's sci-fi, just his whole interpretation of it. And it is fucking glorious. Yeah, it looks really nice. There's some weird stuff going on. Again, we don't know how much of this is going to be like prophetic vision and how much is actually, you know, on-screen reality, if you like. That's going to be kind of interesting to see. we see Paul with some weird stuff going on on his face a couple of times, which people who've read the book will probably know what that means.

28:55People who haven't, don't worry about it. It's all good. Yeah, it's all fine. It's all fine. But there's, you know, there's interesting visuals. Once again, this is still maybe the most striking sci-fi, I mean, since Blade Runner? Is that crazy? I don't think there's anything like this because it blends the kind of spacey, futuristic stuff with almost like classics, old school Grecian sort of like looks like. It looks at both ones futuristic and ancient and those two kind of worlds combine in this incredible texture that he uses. I just, I love it. I don't know if that's come across at any point when I've talked about Dune, but I'm...

29:32You should really have mentioned it sometime. I'm just obsessed with these films. I just don't think there's anything else quite like them. And, you know, and in the trailer, you've got the visuals, you've got the incredible sound effects, you've got, you can hear Timothy Chalamet sort of chanting like Fremen war chants, which get the blood stirring. So, I mean, December really cannot come soon enough. Every day is Christmas Eve and not just Christmas morning already. You're not getting ahead of yourself in any way, shape or form, right? No, I would never do that. Never, ever, ever. I'm, yeah, I just, I just, I mean, I've been all in on these films like yourself.

30:05I'm super, super psyched. I'm really psyched to see Aaliyah. I think that that character, the Anya Taylor-Joy character is a fascinating one in the books. I'm interested, like, you said it's two decades is that something they said in the q a or because she had a sort of um potential to develop in an unusual way because she had a very unusual you know um genesis so you know her mother took the sort of psychedelic uh fremen drugs when she was pregnant with her which there you go which led to alia being born with the sort of witchy powers um and in other films you know that's led to her being like a freakish weird little kid yeah um but it could i mean you could hand wave it pretty easily as oh she grew up to adulthood in 12 years it feels like so is that something that they confirmed exactly or i can't they didn't i did they mention in the q a they might have done i can't remember i certainly read elsewhere i think didn't even know if has said that it's a 20 year gap i mean obviously anya taylor joy is not 20 she's older than that but but that's fine hand wave hand wave all good uh but you're right they don't i don't think they need it for that i think the timeline is largely to accommodate for what he has achieved as emperor between june part two and june part three um because a lot has happened and we're going to see a lot of that so i don't think it's like we're going to start two decades on i think we will see glimpses of what happened we're going to see the war we're going to see bits of it and then the main narrative will pick up two decades after june part two yeah i do love about this series that you have like these godlike powers and you know gigantic spaceships and all of this kind of crazy sci-fi stuff and all of the battle scenes seem to come down to a bunch of people running at each other yeah i i just that's fun i mean the fact that we in reality get closer and closer to the butlerian jihad which led this civilization to ban computing each day the fact that we get closer to that you know makes those scenes feel more and more real as we go on so i'm i'm kind of having fun with that it is true although the fremen like certainly when you see the sequence most of them are carrying firearms rather than just you know knives and swords so it's not quite as a as much of a sort of melee fight as you would think uh there's actually there's you know a bit of machine gun action going on as well they're also in big crazy armor also i mean they're looking more formidable even than they were before so that's going to be fun as well it was Very exciting.

32:31And Javier Bardem gets to see a bunch of water. I'm excited. He does. Yes, actually, that's, and this is one of the, from the footage you saw, the Fremen come out of their little dropshits, which are basically the D-Day landing craft, and it's raining. And they just stare at the sky because they've never seen anything like it. And there's a bit where you see in the trailer of them looking at the sea and they're like, what the fuck is this? Look at all this water. So, yeah. So, yeah. God bless him. God bless him. Well done, Fremen. Yeah. Hope you're having fun. Okay. so um that is the dune 3 trailer which is out now dune in summary too long didn't listen yeah that's it that's all you need to know okay so we should probably now return to our previously recorded news section um which i'll be honest is short and lacking in news don't blame us lacking in dune lacking in dune blame the 4th of july look there's nothing else happening but here you go back to news and thank you to Dune 3 for dropping a trailer and giving us something to talk about yeah let's move on to movie news things that are current things that are now things that are hip what's happening in the world of movies I mean look speaking of someone who has absolutely checked news this week to prepare for this podcast and has not just done like three things back to back I saw by which I mean I saw the headline that Ali G is returning to cinemas is this true can this be true and that Sacha Baron Cohen has made this in secret Yes.

33:55Apparently that is the case. Like, it is not just happening. It has effectively happened. The recording has already taken place at this point. And he will be, he's finished secretly filming it and it is on its way. And, you know, that's kind of what we know at the moment, really. There have been rumblings and rumors that it was happening, but, you know, nobody really talked about it. He was on tour recently for that film Ladies First that was on Netflix and was basically saying, no, no, no, I don't know what you're talking about, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, apparently it has happened. So we can expect that at some point.

34:37Is this a good thing? I mean, the Borat second film was pretty funny. I feel that Ali G has aged less well than Borat. I mean, that's fair, yeah. I mean, unless you abandon the sexual politics of that entire character, I don't know quite how that works. Maybe it's about reckoning with the sexual politics of that character. Maybe that's how you do it. Maybe you bring in a supporting character as good as they did in subsequent movie films. His daughter, you know, the way back of the character. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was genius. Maybe you bring in a new person like that. I'm not saying it's her or it's anyone like her or it's a daughter or anything else, but it could be just another person for him to bounce off that has that similar effect.

35:24But yeah, I mean, maybe it will be great. Maybe. I mean, it's possible. I covered the premiere of Ali G in Da House when he turned up, and I remember Sacha Baron Cohen, he turned up wearing a full kind of ermine cape, like regal gown with a crown with little marijuana golden rings on, surrounded by scantily clad women who were basically naked except for artfully placed marijuana leaves. Oh. And he did the entire interview in character. Of course he did. Yeah. Yes, of course he did. That makes total sense. Look, I don't know. It could be great. I didn't expect to love Jackass forever. I didn't expect to love Borat's subsequent movie film.

36:09And they were both very funny, so... Helen, unexpectedly, like a lowbrow advocate. Very low bribe. Some people would be out there going, that's not an expected shoot. Yeah, but it's unexpected at least news, and that's exciting. Also out and not very exciting this week, in the sense that we don't know much about it, there is a news story that Godzilla Minus One director Takashi Yamazaki is working with Ridley Scott's company, Scott Free, on a new film called Nue, or Nu, I'm not sure how you pronounce it. N-U-E. And everything's under wraps. So that's about all I have for you on that. So film is being made, is what we're saying.

36:50Film is being made. This is breaking news. I like it. I just, I wish I had more to tell you. Do you know what I mean? I don't feel, I feel like that's not enough. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. It doesn't feel, you know. Exciting, thrilling. Woodward and Bernstein are not, you know, turning in the graves or concerned. But they're not dead for one day, or at least not both of them. Well, you know, I think it's their professional graves because their profession, journalism, is dying. Is dying. Oh, I see what you mean. Not because they're terrible journalists. Right, no.

37:16Journalism is in a terrible state, as evidenced by this podcast. But you made clear already, this is not journalism. Well, that's true. In so many ways. In so many ways. Maybe Woodward and Bernstein would say the same thing. I think they would. We can rest assured of that. Anyway, the point is, Yamazaki is making this new film. He's already got Godzilla Minus Zero, which is obviously the sequel to Godzilla Minus One, in the can. That's happening in a different way. I like the fact that they've adhered to proper mathematics and not gone minus two, which would, of course, be a lower number. They've actually gone for minus, although minus zero isn't a thing.

37:52Minus zero also is upsetting. Godzilla zero, wouldn't it? Godzilla zero. Or just Godzilla. Yeah. Yeah. But at least they're counting up and not down, is what I'm saying. That's true. But, I mean, they did kind of get to the Godzilla part of Godzilla minus one in Godzilla minus one. So, you know, again, I do feel like there's, I'm just saying, I'm not going to quibble. It's fine. It's all fine. I'm okay. it's fine but yes I'm excited about it whatever it's mathematical structure Terminator 2 is back in cinemas which is exciting that's good so it's celebrating anniversary but also the prestige is coming back into cinemas because it's his 20th anniversary I think at the beginning of next year so you're going to be able to see Nolan's The Prestige on the big screen I watched it again recently so did I because I wrote a book which is coming out next year called A Christopher Nolan Dictionary Helen versus Christopher Nolan not versus how dare you as you know I have never expressed any criticism of Christopher Nolan in my entire life.

38:43Never. And this book will be no longer. This is a dictionary of Christopher Nolan? This is a Christopher Nolan dictionary, yes, correct. What was the letter R? I don't remember. I wrote it quite a while ago now. I do have to go back in next week and just add in the Odyssey entry. Oh, really? So O is just blank at the moment. Keep behind the curtain there. Wow. Yeah, it's just lorem ipso at the moment, and it's going to be, hopefully, some words about the Odyssey. Okay, good, good, good. Very excited about that. R would have been... Pirates. Well, that stands for P. Oh, I see. I said, but that begins with A.

39:11if it's R. Oh, Helen, you're so literal. Anyway, the point is, there was a point, the prestige, I watched it again for that book and it is so dark. Like, I remember it being much more of a caper. Yeah, it's not a caper. It's not a caper. It's not Catch Me If You Can, the prequel. No. Like, it really is. But also, the thing that I took away from it, and I should know this because this is not the only film she's done in, Scarlett Johansson's English accent is fucking brilliant. It's very, yeah. Like, really good. But it's a film where none of the women come out well. I mean, Christopher Nolan, love him, but up until this point, and I haven't seen The Odyssey yet, some people have, I have not, but up until this point, his female characters have not all been slam dunks.

39:52No. And I would respectfully suggest that the prestige is among those where the female characters are not slam dunks and certainly do not have a slam dunk time. I don't know why I'm using slam dunk, but they do not have a good time of it and they are very mistreated by the male leads, who of course, for people who haven't seen it, are Christian Bale and Hugh Jackman. And yeah, it's a tale of warring magicians and they do horrible things to each other and they both become so obsessed with each other in really unhealthy ways and act out in very violent fashion. Yeah, like really violent. Like it escalates very quickly.

40:26Yeah, like it really steps up a gear. And yeah, but it is good. It's one of his best films for me. I still really like it. People often cite The Prestige as the best Nolan. It's not for me, but it is very good. For me, it's not on the same plane as Interstellar and obviously Inception, which is my favourite. But it is very good. I think it's top five, certainly for me. Yeah, I think that's fair. That's fair. But anyway, it's back in cinemas. And then T2, not a film you like, of course, James. No, no, no. I would never knowingly watch Terminator 2, the second greatest sequel ever made. After Aliens.

40:57Yes. I knew what I was going to say. All right. Well, so that's news, I guess. Also in news, I mean, there's not really very much this week. We are recording on Wednesday, which probably hasn't helped. Yes, we are. So apologies if something I think shocking and terrifying happens after this. John Goodman is working with Brie Larson in a new film called Skeletons. Yes, this is J.J. Abrams produced, isn't it? J.T. Molnar directing. Yes, it is J.J. Abrams produced. Bad Robot, Back in the Game. Also starring Kyle Gallin, Willa Fitzgerald, Ione Skye. And it's a modern take on creature horror movies told from the perspective of a young boy who slowly discovers that his parents are hiding a disturbing secret about his mother.

41:44That seems fair. So we'll have to see what that is. Okay. All right, count me intrigued. All right, well, barring anything enormous breaking overnight and adding things in, that is the underwhelming and a little bit boring news section. I'm really sorry, guys. I blame reality. We could just make shit up, I suppose. We could make shit up. Probably shouldn't. That doesn't go well for people. Okay, shall we have a guest? Let's have a guest. Who have we got, Helen? There's the good news. We have an interesting person as our guest. So, Suella Jakub is the star of the new Sebastian Vanashek movie, Evil Dead Burn.

42:20Sick burn. The latest. It is, yes. A literal sick burn. In the Evil Dead franchise. So, this sees her play Alice, who finds an already difficult visit to her in-laws, interrupted by demonic nastiness in the latest, and arguably, maybe, goriest, question mark, installment of the franchise begun and still overseen by Chris's beloved, possessed ghost... Nah, I said it again. And still overseen by Chris's beloved, possessed goat boy, Sam Raimi. So we sent Chris inevitably along yesterday to dodge deadites and talk to her ahead of the film's debut. So, Ellie, yes. So, welcome to the Empire Podcast.

43:02How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. I'm not too bad thank you it's a hot day outside so Evil Dead Burn is happening outside for real yes yes yes are we going through another heat wave this week yeah I think so yeah we're addicted to heat waves now we love them oh god yeah we can't get enough of the heat no exactly what can you do and when you say heat wave it means AC and then yeah when it means AC then it means I'm sick I'm a little bit sick if I'm being honest but I'm happy to be here it's better to be honest I think but you're not going to pass out during the interview you're going to be okay I will see you know let's get surprised is it always worrying when you're doing a film like this and then you get a little bit sick you're thinking hang on a second I might be impossessed am I dead out now am I dead out well no that's the thing am I allowed to spoil not maybe in this moment I think people know that Alice is the hero of the film yes yes so but that's not spoiled too much absolutely but there is a moment I think we talk about this there's a moment in the film where alice begins to read from the book of the dead yeah uh the necronomicon and uh and then she she decides not to uh she says fuck that yeah exactly is that what you would do in real life the spooky book with i mean of course i wouldn't read it at first sight i mean yeah of course not but i but i like the fact that sebastian because we watch of course all the Evil Dead movie before and we're like oh my god why are you reading that so seriously?

44:35Come on! So I love the fact that for the first time there was one character who said nah fuck this come on but it's too late obviously but yeah I think it's in this movie that there's a lot of comedy that are the perfect ingredients to make the audience and the fans like yeah So it's fascinating I'm very glad because I would not read that in real life. I would run a mile. I'd be out the door. But it's good to see that Alice does that too. So you and Sebastian sat down and watched all of them? Every single one? Well, he did. I have a very weird connection to horror movies. That means I'm not very familiar because I'm very, very scared easily.

45:25okay so when i met sebastian for the first time he talked to me about evil dead of course i've heard it before i knew what it was but i've never watched it so i started to watch the second one on my home because i heard this it's the best one and it was so hard for me to watch it was really really hard so i was like covering my ears and my eyes and i was damn but i want to how is it for me how can I be part of this franchise if I'm not able to watch one? And it's the sweetest thing for my birthday. My best friend, he did to me a special editing, like a special cut from Evil Dead Rise. So he cuts all the gory, very gory scenes out and he puts kittens and puppies instead.

46:13And he pops into the screen and explains to me what happened so I could understand the tone and the vibe. so this was my first experience to Evil Dead but now I've watched the first three of Summer Emmys oh okay okay interesting but you haven't seen all of Evil Dead Rise? I haven't no I've well I've you've seen the puppy cuts I've seen my puppy cuts yeah and it's enough yeah so where someone is being horribly brutalized by a cheese grater which is what happens in Evil Dead Rise apparently yeah you get to see a cute puppy instead Yeah, I could see it. Papi and my best friend pops on the screen and explains to me what is happening.

46:51This could catch on. I think this is, you know, Evil Dead Burn is also pretty... Gory and hardcore. Yeah, I mean, Jesus Christ. Some of the stuff that happens in this movie. So if there were, you know, two cuts, so people can go to see in cinemas this week, there's the cut for people like me who think that Evil Dead 2 is the greatest movie of all time. I love it. There's that. I agree. And then other people can go and see The Puppy Cut, which is also like 20 minutes shorter. Yes, that's true. But it's so good. It's such a great, chill Sunday movie that you can watch with your family, at least.

47:30It's fun. It's fun. It's not even a PG-13, Evil Dead. It's like PG. No, it's a PG-3. Yeah, absolutely. Bring all your family. Bring the kids. I love that. Yeah, it's great. But yeah, Evil Dead Bernie is definitely, I think, one of the most violent and brutal of all of them. There is stuff that happens in this movie. I'm a seasoned horror hound. I love my gore. But there was stuff in this movie I was like, bloody hell. That is intense. So, you know, shooting it on set, shooting that sort of stuff on set, there must be a level of remove then. It must be hard to get caught up. but of course it's not Gora because there's a tube and there's a bit of blood and I can see the guy pumping the blood out over there.

48:13Of course. It is, of course, funnier to work on it on set than to watch it. That's for sure. But I mean, for my character, I mean, it never stops. Alice is going through so much and this is also what I love about this movie is that it never ends, it never stops and Sebastian, the director, he's telling the audience when they're allowed to breathe or not. this is how you feel when you watch the movie but for me at some point we shot it for like more than three months and I was dead at the end of the film I mean I was covered in bruises I was super exhausted I loved it obviously I loved it so much I loved the team, I loved the crew everyone was amazing but I was you know when you spend like hours 10 hours per day crying and crawling covered in mud and blood.

49:09At some point, your brain doesn't know if you're still working or you're just sad. So I went back home. I remember my husband like telling me some jokes and I was just crying for no reason. I was, yeah, really mentally. Yeah, it must be so hard to switch off. It was hard to switch off, but I enjoyed it. It wasn't a torture. I didn't suffer. It was just, okay, what's happening to me right now? Yeah. Am I having fun? Yeah, I think I am, but yeah. How do you get into that mindset? So there are sequences in the movie where Alice is, how should we say this? She's going up against some deadites. And you're absolutely right.

49:46There is, you know, she goes through the ringer. She really goes through it. And how do you start off? How do you get to that before Sebastian calls action? Do you have tricks to get into that mindset? or no not much i feel like um we were all i mean the i'm talking about hunter and luciani hunter who plays joseph and luciani who plays tia um we were this movie was very technical um sebastian is cutting his scenes very sharply i don't know if that makes sense so we we needed to like for for example, one scene, we had to do one line, the first line of the scene, he used that lens, that type of lens, so we need to be crying for that lens, but then he said, and cut, and then he changed the lens for another, for the second line, so the whole, and then sometimes we had to wait for two hours the time they need to change the light and everything, so we needed to cry and to be focusing very quick, we needed to be focused very quick.

50:52Yeah, it was very, but it was very hard but

50:59I love that technical technicality I'm a very technical actress when I need to and so for me it was not that hard to get into those places because also I was surrounded by people that I was that I trust I didn't feel judged I didn't feel so like Like when Sebastian told me, okay, Sue, you're ready? I know you've been waiting for two hours, but can you go back to the extreme emotions you were this morning? Like, okay, wait one second. Then I go to my corner, I cry and then I come back. Wow. And that was the whole film. Yeah, it wasn't like big scenes where it's like one take and you can go, except for the one-er.

51:45We have one big one-er scene. That's really impressive. But yeah, it was very, we needed to be there. When they were ready, when the camera was ready, we needed to be. Yeah, it was intense. Wow. Talk to me about that, Warner, because, again, I think we can say there's a Warner. It's in one of the trailers, although there's more in the movie. And, again, you go through it. You're being flung around. People are being flung around in the background behind you. The timing of it must have been quite interesting because those are real stunt people being flung around, right? Yeah, yeah. and it's funny I just found a pictures on my phone because I wanted to put something on social about that scene but there is like I'm the only one I don't have a stunt for my part but like Hunter has three of them there is three of Joseph in that scene and there is three of Tandy right who plays Susan in that scene and also two Edgar so Errol in that scene so for me because it looks like I'm just scrolling and people on socials like, oh, come on, get up, bitch, and run.

52:50No, I can't. First of all, there is a script I need to respect, okay? And then if I stand up, daydives can punch me. So no, I need to stay down. But it was also very, very hard for me because I needed to crawl very low to the ground because if I'm a bit too high, the camera is gonna see like cables on the ceiling. So I'm not allowed to be too high. I need to go at a certain rhythm because I need the stunt to have time to, for example, to prepare their harness or their stunt. So I need to go at some rhythm. And also I need to be sometimes close to the table, but not that close because sometimes it can be dangerous for myself.

53:37Then there is also special effects I need to be aware of that is not on set, but this is going to be on the screen later. so I need to be I need to react to something that doesn't that's not there yet and then I need to be careful to the other actors and then I need to be on that corner and then I had like and also I need to be careful of the DOP and sometimes I need to do an action in the specific light that Sebastian wanted so and I need to act sometimes I forgot I agree but yeah it's a scene that it's very I had like thousands of things to think about in every movement that i made it was one mistake could fuck that take so yeah it was it was it was quite a challenge what take number was it in the end so i heard sebastian told me yesterday but i think it's like the take ninth that he took oh yeah but nine times doing that scene it's very exhausting what are you complaining about it was very intense we had an eighth scene that never that yeah isn't garbage but I think it was great in the eighth before but whatever he took the ninth it's really interesting there what you said about Alice is kind of in that one or she's kind of tucking into herself she's trying not to be seen she's trying not to aggravate the the deadites yeah in that and the movie is about her blossoming it's about her coming out of that in a way and finding the strength to untuck herself was that something that you were considering with that yes well thank you for saying that it's something that we really um we've we pay attention to that for alice um for sure for her the horror movie starts even before the day that's arrived so she's like this woman that is grieving and she's she's carrying this guilt in her but she's someone that has I think for her past life with her husband she always tried to protect him to protect her in-laws as well to protect everybody and she's even at the beginning of the movie even when the horror starts she even tried to protect the mother at some point even the mother tried to kill her as well she she wasn't a monster until she needs to be one for her for her to survive well it's interesting because you know as I said earlier on and as listeners of this podcast will know Evil Dead 2 is legitimately my favorite movie of all time.

56:25I adore that film. But I would say that it doesn't necessarily have a lot on its mind. No. It's a movie that's about the visuals. It's about the thrill ride. And Bruce Campbell, I love him, but Ash doesn't really have a thought in his head. Whereas Alice does. And there's a lot going on here underneath the surface of Evil Dead Burn. Exactly. I didn't, when he told me, okay you're gonna be the final girl for the next evil dead and was like okay but i don't want to be a final girl her was just doing like where she's just a scream queen and just do bad decisions and she's just one color of emotion she's just the superhero or i was like or and also very sexualized you know ended up with a tank top and it covered in blood and with the hair and i was i'm not interested in that i i want to i want people of course to to enjoy the film to to to have fun and to but i also want them to be heartbroken also i'm also here as an actress and as an actress to tell a story yeah i want them to be moved by her i want it to be meaningful and necessary yeah so Oh, yeah.

57:38Job done. Thank you. Job done. Thank you so much. Thanks so much for your time. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so that was Suella Yacoub and Evil Dead Burn is something we'll be talking about in a minute. There is also, however, in the interview special, an interview with Auli Cravalho, the original Moana and a contributor to its new live action remake. She sings basically on the new song, The Oscar Bait, at the end of the movie. That's not the name of the song. They went with... Oh, I thought that was the title. Yeah, I think honestly, the Oscar bait at the end of the movie is what many of these songs should be called but this one I think they went with...

58:12Make way for an Oscar. Along the way. Instead they went with along the way. Anyway, so there is an interview with Auli in the interview special so you can look that up in your feed. That is going to be there. For now it is time to get into the review section. Now Harry, wait, Harry's here? Ta-da! Oh my god it is Empire's own social media manager, the Tom from MySpace, if you will, of Empire. Look, there is no one working in social media who is a good role model. I tried to come up... MySpace, okay, I'll go with it. We have to go back that far to find someone who's not a twat. I was going to call you like the Mark Zuckerberg of Empire, but I can't do that because that's not flattering.

58:54The best answer on TikTok, you know, you could have gone anywhere, you know. Okay, I mean, yeah, but they don't have power. You know, you have power, you have authority. Yeah, that's true, actually. Yeah, you're right. See, it all comes back to TikTok. Malcolm was right. Yeah, that's right. It's all about the talk. All right. Anyway, Harry's here. Hello. Hello. How are you doing? I'm good. I've just recovered from watching our VIP subscribers watch Evil Deadburn in 4DX. Oh, no. Which was quite the experience. I did not stay for the 4DX, but as everyone came out, they looked like they'd really been through something.

59:23So I'm glad we could see them to that. 4DX, I find, is a lot. Arguably too much. And that's for most things. For Evil Deadburn, I cannot even imagine what that experience is like. I just think it's kind of like the last thing I want out of a cinema experience. Because I go to the cinema to relax. Even for like a horror film like this. I did pick the wrong film. But the idea of being thrown about during a film is not my idea of a fun time. I actually quite like 4DX in general. I think it's fun. I think it's stupid. But I think it's fun. Because, you know, for example, I remember I went to see The Avengers.

1:00:01the first one in, not the first first one, but the first Marvel one in 4DX. And there's a bit where like Nick Fury shoots somebody. And so you get two quick pops in the back of your back. Now, that's fun, but it doesn't have anything to do with the plot. You're not the person being shot. So it makes no narrative sense. It makes no narrative sense. You're meant to be in Nick Fury's shoes. You know, you're not meant to be being hit. So that kind of thing, like it's not narratively coherent, but I have fun with it. and you get a really good back massage. However, that all said, I cannot think of a film I would want to do that with less than the film we're about to talk about, Evil Dead Burn.

1:00:41So I should say, I am, in my role this week, a conscientious objector to, you know, cinema, partly on the count of I am a massive wuss. And it was pointed out to me that were I to see Evil Dead Burn, I would die. I would die and or run screaming from the cinema because I just don't have the constitution to deal with it. And I felt this way pretty much about all of this current generation of Evil Dead films. They are just a step above what I can really tolerate from my horrors. So I'm fascinated to hear your experience of sitting through this genuinely upsetting film. Well, if the last two have been a bit much, I think this one might take the cake, to be honest with you.

1:01:19So I don't know how much enjoyment you get out of this one. But there's pretty much Evil Dead Burn that comes to us from Sebastian Vanacek. I apologize if I butchered that. and this has a sort of light link to the last Evil Dead film which was Evil Dead Rise and it follows a family who are reunited by the grisly death of an older brother and who along with his widow Alice played by Suella Jakob and it comes very quickly apparent there's a lot of aggression and repressed anger in this family as they reunite at their family home and all it takes is for some deadites to come along to kind of let it all come bubbling to the surface if you're not a fan of gore stay the hell away from this film because I think even more than the Fede Alvarez one or even Lee Cronin's Evil Dead Rise I think this is definitely the most violent of all the Evil Dead films we've had in quite a while even more so than the Raimi ones to be honest with you these films just seem to get nastier and nastier this may be like the nastiest of them all so if you are coming for that I would say you're going to have a great time this one also gets into a lot of stuff around kind of like male violence and I think mileage may vary on that in terms of, I don't know about you, Helen, but there are a few scenes within this that left a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth, if I'm being completely honest with you.

1:02:38But one thing I will praise the film for is I feel like we've had for five films, you read from the book, you say the insane words from the book and the Deadites come after you and I like that this one tries to do something different. mainly the Deadites actually have a bit of agency in this one and they kind of have goals just beyond being like annoying little twats towards all of the people that they are possessing. This gives them real agency and there's kind of a goal for the whole movie so both the protagonist Alice and them kind of are working towards the same goal within this which I really enjoyed.

1:03:08It's got some gnarly kills in it as you'd expect from an Evil Dead film. Super gnarly. Yeah, there's some stuff with a pen. I'm just going to say that. Mightier than the sword. Yeah, mightier than the sword. Definitely in this case. I think the most interesting thing about this one I'm a big Evil Dead Rise fan and I think that film marries sort of like the Rami zaniness as kind of like a kookiness to having this central deadite who's the mum and she's kind of just being a bit of a twat to her kids and kind of like cussing them out for the whole film. You also have kind of a bit of Fede seriousness in that one as well because it takes itself quite serious and it's pretty grim throughout.

1:03:48I do think that this one the deadites are a lot less fun i think it's a very kind of morbid film and takes itself very seriously there are a few attempts at humor throughout it i think overall the deadites given a lot less personality in this one overall i still get the sense that they're fucking with people like you know that that's still a bit of what they're doing they're not just trying to kill you they're trying to make you suffer on the way kind of a thing but i do think And yet this is definitely less funny than even Evil Dead Rise, which is not a funny film. Like that's a scary film. Again, I'm like James, a wimp.

1:04:25So you do have to kind of take that into account. And I think this is really leaning into a scary, which is kind of what Vanacek's previous film, Infested, which is a really good sort of scary spider movie, also did. Like I get it. Like it's one way you can go. If you've got a comedy horror franchise, if you can either tweak the comedy or tweak the horror, right? And, you know, Raimi famously tweaked the comedy in Medieval Dead or whatever you want to call it. Army of Darkness, the greatest of all the Evil Dead films. Well, on behalf of Chris, I'm just going to say you're wrong, but I don't have a strong dog in this fight.

1:05:00But, you know, in Army of Darkness, that was considered, I think, by people at the time and many fans too comedic and not serious enough. I think the recent ones have gone too serious, maybe, and not comedic enough, and this one is definitely going more in that direction. There are some bits where you're like, ha, that's awful. And it's almost like a laugh of kind of horror in a weird way. Yeah. But there's very few just really absurd bits. I think you get the Raiminess more from the fact that, like, Van Acheek leans into some of Raimi's kind of crazy camera moves and stuff. I'm thinking where it's sweeping over the trees and things like that.

1:05:34Also, there's a bathroom scene where the camera kind of goes up the wall. And I was just like, Sam Raimi would be very proud right now. Yeah. I think Rise definitely has a few more moments of like out and out even like comedy in terms of there's the scene in the hallway in Rise with like the eyeball and stuff and it's kind of so absurd that it becomes like funny I think this is very devoid of all that I think a lot of the violence in it is like real world violence and there's a couple of moments especially in the first act where I was like oh this is definitely like a step up for an Evil Dead film in terms of the violence that's being portrayed but I think without it being kind of so devoid of humour where I found it a lot harder to stomach than I usually do an Evil Dead film.

1:06:12Yeah, I think that's part of the mix, isn't it? Like, you can get away with more if you make people laugh afterwards. And, I mean, there are some really striking moments in this film. There's a bit where one of the deadites basically shows how difficult they are to kill, quite frankly, and that was really like, oh, my, this really escalated. You know, I'm just miming for Harry so that the other people don't necessarily know. but you know that's quite upsetting stuff sometimes but it's definitely leaning more into the horror than into the comedy which is interesting but perhaps not what the really hardcore or less hardcore evil dead fans want yeah i do think this is a leap kind of further into darkness than any of the previous ones have done however there is also a sequence um in the middle of the film which kind of has uh one of the lead characters escalating up the whole of the house which i just thought was so like and you have all these different dead eyes like popping in and jumping in and it's just like pure fucking chaos and that's that was like one of the joyful moments of me being like this is what i like in an evil dead film because it kind of tiptoes towards being a little bit bonkers um and it's just a really creatively put together sequence so i love the middle section of the film a lot there's a good bit with the stair lift really enjoyed that yes yes this one if you look to scans at your cheese grater after watching evil dead rise this one will make you dread your dishwasher so do be warned going in but we've given this three stars so that is a recommendation if you are stronger of stomach than james dyer yeah i mean that's not hard but yeah this is too much of a sick burn for me i cannot i cannot even that's fair enough so three stars for evil dead burn all right so let's get into our second big film of the week now that harry has cleared the room moana migway migway it's time you knew the village of motone so okay and herein lies the problem right we all know this film so well moana is the well the original 2016 i want to say yeah it's been 10 years yeah 2016 is one of the best disney musicals i don't think that's controversial to say because every single song in this is a certified banger we've all listened to the soundtrack many many times we can and will and you can't stop us sing these songs until you cry and so this is another and i'm going to use heavy air quotes, live action remakes of an animated film.

1:08:32This one is directed by Thomas Cale and this is, he's a theatrical director, this is his first film. He's obviously he's got previous there with Lin-Manuel Miranda. Indeed he does. He didn't have a lot to do here because obviously there's not a lot of directing required for what is almost a shot for shot remake of the animated film. So just in case you've been living under a rock or you've been stranded on a desert island without a ship as a demigod as you will do and haven't seen Moana this is about Moana and she lives on the village of Motunui and they never really leave her people stay there all the time because that village is all they need except it all starts to go a little bit wrong because Maui who is played by Dwayne Johnson or voiced by Dwayne Johnson in the original and he steals the heart of Te Fiti which is a green stone let's be honest and it sets in this sort of cascade of events which essentially leads to plants dying fish fucking off and everything just going badly so Moana set sail to find Maui and to make him put back the heart of De Fiti thereby restoring balance to the force and they sing a lot or the Pacific yes and they sing a lot along the way so this is exactly the same story except in and again air quotes live action and I say air quotes because it is 90 % CGI it is largely shot on a sound stage so it's not what you'd call live action it is I guess in many ways what would happen if you uploaded Moana to an AI and said make this live action this is probably what it would produce because it is essentially an identical remake of the first film and this is what takes us back to our critics conundrum that we had earlier on because taken as a film in isolation right I am Maui I've been living on a desert island for hundreds of years I've suddenly got a boat I've got and this is the first film I see I watched this it's a banger.

1:10:21This is a four-star film. The songs are great, the story is fun, the characters are likeable, it's a bit mad. I've had a really good time, four stars, loved it. Except, if you use that logic, then Gus Van Sant's Psycho is also a masterpiece. You know, Miley Cyrus' cover of Smells Like Teen Spirit is the definitive sort of anthem. You can't take these things in isolation because there are better versions available. And I think this is the problem here, because taken as a film in its own right, there's nothing wrong with it, it is all of those things, it's got good songs, you know, it's although, although, the songs are not as good, because less so, you're welcome to an extent but I think Jermaine Clement, who returns as giant crab Tamatoa, sings his songs shiny, and he sings it, I mean it's broadly speaking the same, but he puts on a very different performance, which I have to say I thought was a lesser performance as someone who's listened to the soundtrack endlessly but the songs are still great but you can't, I I could never in good conscience say to someone, you've got to watch the 2026 Moana because the 2016 Moana is just better.

1:11:31I think the visual style is more compelling. I think it's brighter. It's more colorful. This uses, weirdly, because you could say that what this is, it may not be live action exactly, but I guess it's more photo real, except a lot of the devices, like the cartoonification of Maui's tattoos, are just exactly the same as they are in the cartoon. So if you were going to turn live action into a cartoon, but you already have a cartoon, other than to make a load of rather cynical cash, the question that we always ask with this is why? Why does it exist? Why does this earn its place? What is any reason why you would watch it?

1:12:04And I think this more than a great many of these, I don't have an answer for you. Because this feels at once, I mean, it's been 10 years, but it feels more and more like a very recent film. So it doesn't feel like it needs... We just had the sequel last year. We've just had the sequel. and this doesn't really add anything at all. And when I watch the trailer of this and you see, you know, The Rock who plays Maui again in that large flowing wig, I worried there would be an element of nightmare fuel to this. Like it really, it seemed potentially quite upsetting. Watching the film, it's actually not.

1:12:37I think it's fine. I think, you know, Moana in this, who's now played by Catherine Lagat-Aia, she's very good, you know, no notes, absolutely fine. but I found the palette though weirdly muted yeah I think it's one of these films where they have put it into live action and that has made the screen kind of noisier with information but less beautiful like it is less attractive looking and what you were saying about it being shot mostly on sound stages there's obviously some location work here but there's also a whole lot of stuff where they're clearly in a tank and there's a whole lot of stuff where they appear to be on a back lot or on a sound stage artificially lit and I mean I don't understand why if you were making a quote-unquote live action version.

1:13:20I feel like increasingly, I was sitting watching this yesterday next to you, James. I was sitting watching this and I was thinking, I feel like we have to bring in a limit on the number of CG assisted shots if you are going to make a quote-unquote live action version of a Disney classic. I think there should be a limit. I understand that you still want to have your pet chicken or whatever in there and that some CG may be required. But there should be a limit of like 500 shots or something for the whole film that you have to stick to and you're not allowed any other VFX outside that because it is getting ridiculous.

1:13:56What is the point of this? And I feel the same. I've said this. We keep saying this. We keep saying this. What is the point of this? Gus Van Sant's Psycho, we were talking about this yesterday, Gus Van Sant's Psycho was considered a noble failure or just a failure at the time. Now it's a freaking business model. I mean, there are nice bits here. Like Catherine Lagaria's performance is very nice. She's a very charming actor. I hope she goes on to great things. I really like The Rock in this. I think he gives a really genuinely good performance. I think they give Maui a little bit more of the backstory and the sort of angst of his position as a demigod and this sort of being caught between two worlds.

1:14:37I thought he genuinely had some real pathos for that character and he added a little bit to that. That is not enough for an entire movie to exist. A new song over the credits is not enough. And again, I like that it's a duet between the two Moanas and Maui. I think that's a nice idea. It's not enough for this to exist. It's, I mean, it's not a bad song by any stretch, but it's fine. Like, it's quite forgettable. It's not You're Welcome, right? It's none of those. It's not one of the titles. It's a totally nice song that's fine. Everything is fine. The whole cast is fine. Nobody does a bad job here.

1:15:13I don't even think Thomas Cale does a bad job here. No, we didn't have much to do. He directs it well. It's just another freaking version of the same exact film. When we are looking back on Kenneth Branagh's Cinderella as like a high watermark of adaptations that took some risks, I don't understand what we're doing with these. And apart from appeasing Disney shareholders, I don't understand why they keep happening. And I genuinely think they are at this point bad for cinema because they are training people to not go and see when you make a live action movie. If somebody comes along with a Pete's Dragon or a Cinderella or something that has a modicum of originality to it, nobody's going to go see it and it's not going to be that film's fault.

1:15:56It's going to be this film's fault. Even if this film makes money, you are killing the golden goose with this shit. And it is pissing me off. Because it's like a cover version of a song should bring a new interpretation of that song. It should feel different. Go acoustic. Go like, change the genre. Do something different with it. Reinterpret the material. And some of these films do that. As you say, this is not even a cover version. It's a fucking remix. Like, it's the same shit. And I think I could not in good conscience, even though I think that taken in isolation, this is actually a good film.

1:16:28I think I could never in good conscience recommend anyone see this in the cinema because Moana is on Disney Plus and it's better. Yeah. And I just, I, yeah, look, again no no disrespect to the people involved who have clearly worked really hard on this but somebody needed to do more and try more and be more ambitious with the story and with the script and try and give it something different and they haven't done that yeah and look that's why i think john who wrote the review of this has given it two stars two stars again you know it's just it just doesn't have a reason to exist and it doesn't justify itself while you're watching it.

1:17:08It's totally fine. I did get past the wig though. I was worried that that was going to be the big issue with the rocks there. It's very wiggy, but you do get used to it. Yeah, you get used to it. He kind of rocks it, if I'm honest. It's quite sort of Louis XIV. I was feeling that by the end. I was like, do I need more curls? Like that's... Anyway, two stars then for Moana. There is one more film out this week that I want to mention. It's called Rosebush Pruning. It is. Now, I was going to watch this, Helen, and you staged an intervention. I did. And you told me, save yourself, save yourself from hell.

1:17:39I believe how you worded it was, liberate tutta me ex in veris. That was exactly my turn. Yeah. I'd already watched it, you see, and I didn't think you would like it. And I wasn't sure what was to be gained, if I'm honest. So this comes from director Karim Ainuz. It comes from writers Marco Belloccio and Efthimis Filippou. Now, Philippou works a lot with Yorgos Lanthimos. So this is clearly trying to play in a similar sort of dark, twisted, slightly eat the rich kind of an area as the Lanthimos films. Here's the problem. It's not good. It's not good at all. So again, really good cast, really, really great people involved.

1:18:24So Callum Turner plays one of the sons of this very wealthy family who are from the East Coast of the US. They're living just outside Barcelona. He doesn't read, doesn't write as a matter of principle, doesn't drive, just gets lifts everywhere with people and just really likes fashion, darling, and maybe music and occasionally records his thoughts on a podcast. So there's a bit of a satire on us there, which is totally fine. And when he goes home one day, he finds that his older brother Jack, played by Jamie Bell, has got a new girlfriend. Martha, played by Elle Fanning. I really wasn't kidding about this having a good cast.

1:18:58and this kind of knocks everybody in the family like for a loop a little bit because they all are a little bit obsessed with Jack. So Lucas Gage, who's the, I think, youngest brother and the sister, Anna, played by Riley Keough and the father, played by Tracy Letts, who is an older blind man, are all kind of obsessed with Jack and none of them want Martha around and they're kind of weird about it and it turns out that they're weird about everything in really upsetting and disturbing and frankly perverted ways. Where is the mother in all this? She was eaten by wolves a number of years ago. Of course she was.

1:19:34I'm not kidding. But flashbacks swiftly reveal that she's played by Pamela Anderson who actually does really well in the flashbacks. I just hated everyone involved. I hated every character. I hated everything that happened. I hated every revelation that we learned. I hated the way the story went. You know I'm down for Eat the Rich narratives. You are. That's my jam. If we know one thing about you, Helen. Yeah. I think that's great. I'm on the side of the wolves. However, this didn't have anything particularly new or insightful or interesting to say. It was just gross and horrible and I didn't like it, even a second of it.

1:20:11All good people. I hope they all go on and do better things than this. We've given it two and I think that's over generous. Wow, a one star from Helen. Hated it. And all I can say is thank you, Helen, for saving two hours of my life. You are welcome. I believe what you mean to say Helen is. You're welcome. Oh, boy. What a time to be alive. Well, so that was the review section for this week. There's very little out next week as well. They're all running scared from something or other. I can't think what. There's nothing out next week that I can think of. No huge events, are there? Nothing big or, you know, nothing anticipated.

1:20:49No, nothing that's taken a while to get here. No, nothing. A thousand years. Anyway, that is it for this week's Empire Podcast. Join us next week for more film-related fun when we'll be joined by our Chris and also another Chris. Only actual Chris Nolan. Which one is the best Chris? I think that's... Yeah, okay, that's fairly obvious. We're not going to get into that. Okay. He apparently has some new film out and there's been a real odyssey to make. Never heard of it. He's going to be here. You can read all about that film in the new issue that's still on sale. Until then, until that auspicious occasion, until we meet again, Harry's already gone so let's just assume he said goodbye it's goodbye from James goodbye please subscribe to the Pala TV podcast Anya Taylor-Joy was in this studio just today talking to us about her new show Lucky and we've also got J.K.

1:21:36Simmons on this week's podcast we're talking about The Westies oh yeah I did that you did indeed that's right it's you it's you talking to J.K. Simmons hey lovely man and it's goodbye from Malcolm goodbye thank you for having me have we put you off journalism slash podcasting forever excellent I'm going to go on a journey of my own an odyssey you might say alright alright and that is it from me as well I'm off to get myself a little wig as well I really think I could rock the Maui look really I think so I feel like it would be a good thing I think it would be better than Moana live action are you going to do a live action remake off this podcast what would that look like less visual noise slightly more photo reel than we do right now oh god that's a terrifying prospect nobody needs that alright everybody I'm off anyway and that's the main thing Chris will be back next week so let's hope he brings snacks see ya bye bye