You Know How To Whistle, Don't You? (ft. Olivia Wilde and Edward Norton)

12:54Chris Hewitt:oh and brackets it says even the Home Alone score close bracket it's a good score yeah sounds just on the others the only good score in that movie is when the wet band is trying to rip off that mob house that's the only good score in that movie John Williams is not a hack honestly honestly disrespectful unfounded yeah yeah that was a drive-by it was an unexpected drive-by this 90 something year old man no one is safe this legend the greatest composer in the history of movies and you come in that's right with your fucking groove energy the last thing anyone ever said about him on air was what a hack yeah wow what a hack that would be a terrible imagery 45 cc's of pure Johnny Williams adrenaline alright I'm gonna say to uh oh give us I'm gonna give you a challenge come back next week with three different movies that are slightly harder I will say I'm not here next week so maybe oh what maybe come back in two weeks time when I am back and come back with three movies that have different themes and we'll we'll nail it we'll nail it I'll make sure it's movies we know but not this easy to not but this was a trick this was a trick

14:04Alex Godfrey:a notch up this wasn't do you know them this is can you untangle them in your brains

14:08Chris Hewitt:of course you can

14:08Alex Godfrey:it's easy well we managed it but frankly Superman

14:11Chris Hewitt:da da da da da da da da da Indiana Jones da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da. Amazing. Indiana Jones. Yeah, easy. Perfect, yeah. All right, here's one. It is a very, very sad one on the surface, but I'm hoping that we can salvage something from this question. This comes from Sam Garrett 7 on Instagram. I've just been made redundant due to AI. That's true. Very, very sad to hear that, Sam. Fuck AI. Hashtag fuck AI. Any life affirming, can't spell life affirming without AI, redundancy films to em... What? Too soon? Life-affirming redundancy films to emulate. So, films in which people have been fired, laid off, given the old P45, the old heave-ho, but then they've turned it into a moment of triumph.

15:01Chris Hewitt:James, you have one immediately. I do.

15:03Alex Godfrey:I do have one. Obviously, I could just drop Jerry Maguire and walk away, but I'm actually not going to. I'm instead going to go slightly off-piste, as is my want, and say Lee Child. Lee Child, who got made redundant from his job in TV. Hang on, There are films in his future. Bear with me. And with his redundancy money, he sat down with a pencil and a pad and wrote Killing Floor, the first Jack Reacher book. Wait a minute. James, you might actually be onto something here. And made lots of money and films and TV shows and stuff and minted, you know, cash.

15:28Chris Hewitt:Because Reacher has been made redundant.

15:30Alex Godfrey:That's true. Reacher himself was indeed made redundant. Didn't he just retire? No, he's kicked out of the army. He was downsized out of the army. When the army, when they reduced force readiness, he lost his job. So he didn't voluntarily leave the army. Oh my God. So he was made redundant. and he then managed a lucrative career punching people in the face and hitting them with scything elbows. Just walking from town to town. Putting right what once went wrong. That's right. And hoping each time that he'd get a piece of peach pie. Yeah.

15:55Chris Hewitt:Making love to the beautiful ladies. Punching the ugly men. Triangulating how far a yogurt pot will fly. Having two very specific types of shower.

16:05Alex Godfrey:Oh, three. Visiting boots whenever possible.

16:07Chris Hewitt:How life affirming. Oh, God. What a mate. Yes, so there you go. Jack Reacher. that's your North Star he will light your way Hell's Bells? I was going to say Baby Boom at the other end of the sort of spectrum I'm sorry That's the one with Diane Keaton and not the one with Cary Grant and the little leopard Correct that's Bringing Up Baby Bringing Up Baby and not the one with Tom Selleck and Ted Danson as Steve Gutenberg No that's Three Men and Baby which I actually also have a lot of time for No Baby Boom is the one where Diane Keaton basically inherits her niece when her sister and brother-in-law are killed in a car accident.

16:43Oh my God. So she's left with this baby and she's like this hard-nosed career woman who's like engaged to Grandpa Gilmore and has this whole life going on. And then she basically loses her job because she has a baby and it's the 80s and has to move to the countryside and basically starts making sort of like stewed apple baby food.

17:05Chris Hewitt:Right. And then makes a career out of that and starts dating a dishy vet. so a dishy vet a dishy vet I think it was Sam Shepard I think it might have been Sam Shepard anyway he was dishy the point is there's quite a lot of films like this I feel like in the sort of like inspirational woman starting her life over kind of mode but Baby Boom for some reason is the one that came to my head I apologise yeah alright Baby Boom I don't know Alex do you have a life affirming redundancy film well yeah I was going to say Full Monty because that starts off with... Aren't they all redundant? They've all been laid off.

17:44Because of the steel industry situation at that time. And they turn their fortunes on their heads by getting their willies out. They swap steel for wood?

17:56Alex Godfrey:I don't know if they have wood. Yeah, I don't think they do. I don't think that was the... Well, you can't say because we never actually see. No. Well, you can because there would be consequences. Clutch consequences. There would be, you know, there are laws, conventions. Yes, now there are laws. Really? In working men's clubs? And that's what I call a happy ending. But also, James, sorry to take you up on it, but I believe, if memory serves, Jerry Maguire was not made redundant. He was fired on the spot for writing provocative mission statements. I mean, was he fired for cause? Idealistic. It feels like, yes, he knows redundancy.

18:32Alex Godfrey:That's not for cause. We don't want any of that. Get out. Yeah, because I'm not saying that's really a sackable offence, is it? I think we're somewhat conflating firing and redundancy because most redundancies aren't technically redundancies. So it's kind of a gray area. It's all the same. It's all the same. People lose their jobs. Yeah, the point is that you have to start something over. And it can be good for you in my experience. But it's still not a fun thing to go through. Pivot. Pivot wildly and do something completely different. Do a Taylor Sheridan. And instead of being paid very little to act, just dominate the whole of the entertainment industry by writing stuff even though you've never done it before.

19:08Yeah, that's great advice. Just dominate the whole entertainment industry. Just do that. Just dominate the entire entertainment industry.

19:13Chris Hewitt:When Jack Reacher was let go from the army, he pivoted to dominate the field of punching ugly people in the face. Not just ugly people, he's an equal opportunities puncher. He will punch attractive people in the face as well. He will. When called upon to do so. Yeah. That's exciting. All right, I'm going to throw one into the mix. Ghostbusters. Oh, great. Because those guys get let go from university at the beginning of the movie because of their shenanigans and they don't have a pot to piss in. This magnificent feast represents the last of the petty cash, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But they club together.

19:47Chris Hewitt:They somehow buy that firehouse. And, you know, an old hearse. And they end up saving the world. So, Sam. These are all very positive things for Sam.

20:00Alex Godfrey:We don't want negative stories, James. I think we should give opportunities. I think we should give a spread of possibilities, options. So I'm saying falling down is maybe a way to go. Oh, no, it is not. It's not life-affirming.

20:12Chris Hewitt:I'm sure it's quite cathartic. It depends which character you're thinking about. If you watch that film and you focus on the Robert DeVille character, then it is quite life-affirming. Because he ends up taking control of his life again. He doesn't quit the force. And he tells his wife, who's very, very controlling, to basically go do one. And he tells his boss, he says, fuck you very much to his boss and doesn't suffer any repercussions for that and he decides to carry on as a cop. If you look at it from the few point of defense played by Michael Douglas, not so much in the life-affirming category.

20:43No, I wouldn't say life-affirming in that case. No. There's a lot of bad comedies about this, like The Internship. Yeah. Wasn't that the... Was that the Anne Hathaway? No, Robert De Niro. Robert De Niro one. Oh, that's The Intern. Intern. That's The Intern. The Internship is Vince Vaughn, Vince Vaughn, Nolan Wilson. Right, yeah. Yeah, which I was thinking of where they get internships basically at Google and have to compete with young people. Was it a tough search? It kind of is because they're very bad at their jobs and don't understand anything that's going on and are like told to remove the whole thing.

21:12Chris Hewitt:They fit in so well here. They could come and work a very important. So there we go. That's very exciting. Well done, everybody. I enjoyed that. And Sam, it sucks. I too know the pain that you are feeling right now. All I can say is it will get better. and hopefully these life-affirming films watch them as a quadruple bill but maybe leave out Falling Down. So watch the first Jack Reacher for some reason. We're watching Jack Reacher. We're watching The Full Monty. We're watching Baby Boom. What the fuck? And we're finishing off with Ghostbusters. If made redundant you could get your willy out with your friends or hunt some ghosts.

21:50Or stew some apples. I'm just saying.

21:53Alex Godfrey:Those are your three options. Or fall in love with Sam Shepard. Yeah. I think at least three of those things are the same thing, but that's okay. Oh, and Jerry Maguire.

22:01Chris Hewitt:Stick it on top as well. Why not? Yeah. Dorothy Boyd, thank you. You had me at below. Hey. All right. So that's it for the questions this week. If you want to get in touch with me, I am mainly soliciting questions on Instagram these days. I'm ctah1976. He has the trips off the tongue. And look out for a panicked shout out every now and again or a slide into my DMs. Right, okay. We're going to take a little break. Now, if you're listening to this not on Empire Plus, you might hear some adverts. If you're listening to this on Empire Plus, you'll hear no adverts. And the next thing you'll hear will be me.

22:36Chris Hewitt:Anyway, should we talk about some movie news? Hurrah. Let's do it. Is there any, first of all? And what is it? I feel like we should probably talk about the Verwulf trailer.

22:48Alex Godfrey:Verwulf. Verwulf. Verwulf. Yes. Robert Eggers is back. He's made his film again. Now, hang on. and this time the accents are once again exciting I mean yeah but isn't that what you want from him I mean if he comes up with you know I've done a rom-com I would absolutely watch that yeah 100 % I would pay real money to see Robert Eggers yes but you're saying that because you want it to be a Robert Eggers version of a rom-com in which everything is horrible I mean Nosferatu was kind of a rom-com

23:18Chris Hewitt:no it wasn't at all you had me at hello I really want to say that. Talking of the Four Monty. Right, right. You can leave your head on. We're Wolf. People say We're Wolf. We're Wolf. Nobody knows if it's actually. We don't know, but it's much more fun to say it. We have to say We're Wolf. We're Wolf. We're Wolf. Yes. It looks great. Great trailer. We spoke to him for the website. Well, you specifically. I know. I was being, you know, generous. Yeah. it's a teaser trailer I think they call these things teasers anyway it's a two minute trailer

23:56Alex Godfrey:yeah it's a trailer and it's very good it's set in the early 1300s it stars Aaron Taylor Johnson about a man who's having some issues and is clearly going to become a werewolf or a werewolf a werewolf Lily Rosadep plays his wife who is trying to help him out Willem Dafoe plays some sort of wolf hunter or werewolf werewolf hunter and it's just very Robert Eggers. It looks like The Witch. Sorry, The Vvitch. Vvitch. It looks like The Lighthouse. It looks a bit like Nosferatu. It has Villain Defoe in it. Yeah, every film is sort of like, this is everything I've done before but more and then again and again and again and again.

24:39It just looks really, really good. It looks beautiful. It looks horrible. It looks intense. It looks quite scary. It looks really mucky and I think he's just going to go all out with werewolf madness. I mean, you know, it is a two-minute trailer. It doesn't give too much away, but it features people that look very unwell and I think we have faith in Robert Eggers that if he's doing a werewolf movie, then... We do. If nothing else, it's going to look and feel and sound incredible and probably be very, very authentic, hopefully with a great story and good performance as well. I think hopefully Aaron Taylor-Johnson is going to pull it out of the bag for this.

25:19I mean, when I spoke to Eggers about it, I asked him why he chose him for it. Obviously, they just worked together on Nosferatu. But he said Aaron Taylor-Johnson used to be a dancer. He's got a dance background, and this is a really, really physical role. And he's hooked him up with the movement coach who worked with Lily Rose Depp on Nosferatu, and she did some amazing work. So I think it's going to clearly be a very physical, very tactile movie.

25:40Chris Hewitt:You've got a hint of transformation in this, don't you? I don't know whether it's going to be a full-blown Rick Baker, Rob Bottin-style prosthetics all over the shop transformation or whether it's going to be more allegorical. Who knows? But there are certainly hints that he's got fangs. He's foaming at the mouth. He's bone cracking, which obviously does bring to mind American Wealth in London. Yes. But that's the answer. Robert Eggers says that. He said, interestingly, the best werewolf movie is a comedy, which is true. I mean, there is nothing else. Teen Wolf. Do you think that's really meant?

26:09He meant Teen Wolf 2, actually.

26:10Chris Hewitt:Okay, yeah, that's fair. Jason Bateman's finest moment in the big screen, without a doubt. Yeah, I'm hyped. And I think, is he leaning into the kind of rabies angle then with the foaming mouth and stuff like that, do you think? I mean, there were a lot of diseases around at that time. Not many vaccines. Like I say, there's a lot of unwell-looking people in the trailer and I'm sure medical experts weren't around to help too much. But I don't know. I don't know much more, but it just looks really cool. He's working with Jaron Blaschke, the same cinematographer. he's always worked with and they make these there are some really gorgeous shots in this one that's exciting very exciting more excited by the sequel Fairful of Two with Jason Bateman that's going to be amazing there was another horror slash comedy sequel trailer out this week Hellspells did you watch Practical Magic 2?

27:02yes I mean look this I'm in the bag for this I don't really care about the trailers but I watched it anyway and this is the return of Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman as the cursed but also, you know, witchcraft rich sisters who, it's a whole family thing. Basically, they've got daughters or Sandra Bullock does technically. They also have aunts. It's three generations of witchy women who have to work together to break the curse that's still lingering around despite the fact that they thought it was broken in the last film. Turns out, not so much. Lee Pace is involved. Someone tells him to put his clothes up.

27:41They're relieved that he has his clothes on. I did trip over that line in the trailer, I'll be honest. But yeah, it's basically trying to save the younger generation this time from the family curse, which means that every man who loves them dies. Oh, no. Yeah. I mean, it's obviously better than the women dying, but it's, you know, it's still not great.

28:01Chris Hewitt:I love Sandra Bullock. Does this mean I'm going to die? It means you are in line for a certain sudden death. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry about that. Yeah. Oh, well. I do it gladly. Anything for Sandy. It's the first movie. It's interesting because it was a decent sized hit, I think. Yeah. But it seems to become a bit of a beloved cult classic over the years. Yeah, I think it's fair to say. I think, again, the cult is this tiny minority group called Women. Tell me more. I'm interested. I think it's one of those films that keeps coming up again and again. And obviously, you know, like Christmas movies, this is put on Netflix or equivalent every Halloween and people watch it again every Halloween or whatever.

28:45It's a very autumnal movie. This one seems to lean into the same colours, even though it was shot here in the UK. They've, you know, recreated the sort of the house set of the original one. Right. And it's just quite cosy, despite there being a little bit of a thriller element.

29:00Chris Hewitt:Okay. First one was directed by Griffin Dunn and this one's directed by Suzanne Beer. Hold my beer. Proper directors. Proper directors. And they've got kind of the gang back together in terms of you've got Stockard, Channing and Dianne Viest in there as well. So it's, you know, it's proper. That's very exciting. Oh, aye. Very exciting indeed about the old Practical Magic 2. There's another trailer you wanted to talk about, wasn't there? Yeah, Sense and Sensibility. Sense and Sensibility. There we go. 2026 version is out. I mean, look, this is, let's be honest, treading in the footsteps of giants because the Ang Lee, Emma Thompson, Kate Winslet version is beloved, canonical, even though it's a fairly loose adaptation at points.

29:43It was an Oscar winning hit. It is fantastic. And now we have Georgia Oakley stepping into those hallowed shoes with Daisy Edgar Jones, Katrina Balfe, Esme, Creed Miles in the sort of key roles. It looks quite painterly and nice. They seem to have a good grasp on the characters. It's hard to tell yet what kind of an adaptation it's going to be, if it's going to be, you know, if they're going to lean into the fidelity, what they're going to do to kind of make themselves stand apart. But it certainly looks like a Sense and Sensibility film. So, you know, well done, everybody.

30:17Chris Hewitt:It's going to be a tough one to follow up, right? The Ang Lee movie? Very. I mean, it's seriously beloved. And it is a great, great Austen adaptation. It's funny. It's smart. it's beautifully paced incredibly well acted it was a big breakthrough role for Kate Winslet obviously won Emma Thompson an Oscar for the adaptation itself it is a fantastic film so you know I am wary of this in that sense but at the same time it has been 30 years maybe it's okay if somebody else has a crack at it I guess Jimbo are you excited about this or do you find the whole thing exhausted oh I see where you did that oh no yeah

30:51Alex Godfrey:no I am I'm excited might be overstating it but I'm quite looking forward to seeing it so yeah I have not seen Ang Lee's Sense and Sensibility since I think Austin wrote the book. So it's been some time. So I will feel like I'm going in fresh because I literally don't remember anything that happens. So yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I like Daisy Edgar-Jones. Yeah, I think it's going to be good. That's exciting. Alex? Yeah, whatevs.

31:16Chris Hewitt:Yeah. All right. He's more of an Emma man himself. Yes. Some other news very, very quickly. So Parker Finn, the director of Smile and Smile 2, is remaking the incredible 1981 horror film Possession, which starred Sam Neill and Isabella Gianni. One of the great performances in a horror film or any film really by Isabella Gianni, who absolutely goes for it in that movie. And in fact, watching Smile 2 and Naomi Scott's incredible performance in that reminded me of Isabella Gianni. Some of the risks that she was taking and some of the places she was going to. So in a way, it's not a surprise that Parker Finn is remaking Possession, which is about a married couple who are experiencing a cataclysm in their marriage, which may or may not be happening and also may or may not have repercussions for humanity.

32:11Chris Hewitt:And it's really, it's the kind of movie that stays with you when you see it. Paul Dano has just signed on to co-star it along with Callum Turner and Margaret Qualley. So that's interesting. and Monica Barbaro is going to join the new Ocean's 11 prequel the one we talked about a couple weeks ago that'll be written and directed and starring directed by and starring Bradley Cooper and also has Margot Robbie and Fagnamura in it now Helen you poo-pooed Bradley you hated him you launched a hate campaign malicious hate campaign against him but this is news Monica Barbaro I think she's great yeah that is you know an exceptionally good looking cast, I will say.

32:55That's a handsome group of people that they assembled. So that's a good start for an Oceans movie, right?

32:59Chris Hewitt:Yeah. The tradition is you find 11 of the handsomest people in the world. Okay, at least like three of them. And then you put them in a movie. So they seem to be off to a good start. Yes. Eddie Jemison is saying thank you very much. Thank you very much for considering me one of the handsomest people around. Yeah, cool. Alex, excited about the new Oceans movie? I mean I don't love the franchise generally I mean again it's good looking people having a good time together whether that's going to make for a good film or not who knows I actually think Bradley's a good choice for it I think there's a certain energy that he could bring to it and I think he's chummy with most of Hollywood it just depends on the chemistry of that cast really I mean it's a lot of brilliant actors and a lot of beautiful people yeah but I guess you want that ensemble to sort of fizz somehow, right?

33:50Chris Hewitt:For it to be a prequel, one would think that you would have to have an ocean involved somewhere. So is Bradley playing Danny Ocean's dad? Is Margot Robbie Danny Ocean's mum? Maybe it'll just be on the Atlantic? I mean... Maybe, but, you know... Do we need that aspect of it? You do intend to have at some point an ocean in your Oceans movie. Yeah, you probably need something. It's not something I've ever... It's not like, I wonder what the mum and dad was like. Maybe the real heist is stealing her heart. Two very, very quick things to talk about. Supergirl did not do well at the box office. We have been doing, I guess, regular box office reports over the last few weeks or so.

34:32Chris Hewitt:Did not do what it was even tracking to do in the States and is not going to, unless it's a miracle, is not going to hit$100 million in the US and will barely cover$100 million worldwide.

34:45Alex Godfrey:What do we think this means for the fledgling new DC universe that James Gunn is kind of pushing forward? Because bear in mind that this was one of the kind of fulcrums upon which he built his house. He wanted to tell this story. This was one of the big reasons why Cavill didn't come back, because they wanted to move ahead with this. Where do you think we go from here? Because it's hard to imagine Clayface is going to do gangbusters, even though it does look very interesting.

35:08Chris Hewitt:Well, it's a horror film, and they're the ones that are doing gangbusters business at the moment, right? That's correct.

35:13Alex Godfrey:Yeah, but do we think this specifically, because it's a horror take on a superhero movie. I know, but at least that sounds more interesting maybe. I mean, the New Mutants tried it. They did, but it didn't exactly try it with conviction, I would suggest to you, because that film was buried and delayed and everything else. I think there's potential in Clayface, especially if they kept the budget down and they can deliver something that feels fresh and new and exciting, because that does seem to be the only kind of superhero movies that are breaking out right now, right? Are the ones that feel a bit different, or maybe, presumably, Spider-Man.

35:50Maybe, presumably, we hope, Avengers. But everything else has been a bit oof recently, even if it's been quite good, you know? So I think it needs to feel fresh. It needs to feel different. This may be felt a little bit too, we've seen that, even though, you know, people haven't, there hasn't been a lot of Supergirl.

36:07Alex Godfrey:I was going to say, do you think there's a gendered aspect to the reception here? Well, certainly the trolls online will absolutely claim that there has been. I think that they... We've won. We've won. We took her down. I mean, which is just the dumbest and silliest and self-owning-est thing. And really shows a lack of respect for comic books as an art form, if I'm honest. So yeah, I don't like to dignify them with too much credit. But I do think that there was not a lot of fan swell excitement behind this. I think that the studio didn't push it terribly hard. I think if you look at the difference between this and Superman last year, this has not had that push behind it.

36:51You know, it hasn't had a huge advertising push. This kind of has that usual thing built in where if you give, you know, releases with women in them the same marketing budget and the same release, they actually do well, but they don't get those things. So you're not always comparing like with like, I think. even some of the tie-ins felt a bit facile and a bit silly at times. You've just got diet drinks and stuff like that. I don't know. It just felt like they didn't have the conviction behind the movie. Even the trailers. I mean, you watch the trailers and at best you think this looks quite fun.

37:28It seemed a little inessential. Disposable, maybe. There wasn't a big sense of awe and wonder behind it. It didn't feel like an event movie. It didn't feel like it brought anything new to the table at all. did it really

37:38Alex Godfrey:maybe coming straight after Superman was the wrong place whereas obviously it shares a lot of Kryptonian DNA with that but also like we talked about this a little bit in the spoiler especially the idea that you're forefronting a female superhero but then I'm not entirely sure that their subject matter and their audience in their mind were the same thing and it felt like they tried to have every possible cake and eat them and ended up with none whereas I think actually had they leaned into that idea of a kind of feminist empowerment story and actually catered to that audience better maybe they would have brought people in who knows maybe not

38:08Chris Hewitt:you asked what it means honestly it's very hard to say at this point in time what it means Comic Con is a few weeks away there's every chance that James Gunn and Peter Safran will take the stage in San Diego and announce bullishly announce their next three or four films going into 2027 past Man of Tomorrow which is obviously filming right now and features Supergirl features Millie Alcock as Supergirl in that and they'll go you know what we're proceeding we're going ahead we think the Man of Tomorrow is going to be a huge hit people you know are really really connecting with Superman after the fact they're finding it on HBO Max or wherever and so that'll be a bigger hit than Superman and so this is just a bump in the road and we have faith in this character and she's going to be a big part of it going forward and we're announcing this movie and that movie and this movie there's also a chance that they may not do that that's something they may be going well let's just wait and see what happens with Man of Tomorrow and a Man of Tomorrow that doesn't hit, is it time for them to start ruling the whole thing up and packing their suitcases and going home?

39:14Well, let's see what happens with Clayface as well. I think the interesting thing about Clayface, Chris, was it you just saying just now that horror films are doing obviously big business? I'm interested to see how they market that film. Because there was a teaser recently, and I don't remember it being all about DC and superheroes and comic books. The word Gotham appears in it. I mean, so you see Gotham, but... They might just market it as like a horror drama on its own terms.

39:40Chris Hewitt:And it won't have the same marketing spend. They won't be expected the same. But then what was the budget for the film? I don't know off the top of my head, but I'm guessing £4.50. I honestly don't know. 30 to 50 million? Something like that? It wouldn't seem daft? I'm very intrigued by that film. Maybe less. Mike Flanagan wrote a draft. Did James Watkins direct it? These are good people. They know their horror. I mean, the thing is, I'm excited about that as its own project. I don't care about how it fits in is irrelevant yeah 100 % yeah so interesting to see how they wrangle it all so we shall see what happens with that one some good news good news Mel Brooks made it to 100 happy birthday hooray happy birthday to him Mel Brooks the great Mel Brooks celebrated his 100th birthday this week and as a cause for much celebration favourite Mel Brooks movie Hell's Bells oh boy I mean I'll be honest I'm Spaceballs I know that's not the cool answer Blazing Saddles but I'm sorry I know it's not the cool answer however that's my Mel Brooks movie so alright Jimbo says Blazing Saddles Alex I loved Young Frankenstein yeah I just loved it especially Marty Feldman I think it's a tie between Young Frankenstein and and Blazing Saddles for me but yeah what if you but yeah if you haven't seen the Judd Apatow documentary about Mel Brooks which is already out of date because it's called The 99-Year-Old Man then check it out.

41:08Chris Hewitt:I believe it's on Sky at the moment. So it's a fantastic two-part documentary about his incredible life fought in World War II pioneer of comedy. Oh, amazing. Also, lest we forget not just comedy he produced The Elephant Man one of the most beautiful films ever made and was largely responsible for David Lynch being able to do what he did on that film. What a legend. What an absolute legend. So happy birthday to Mel Brooks. I know he is an avid listener of the show. He is. Which leads us nicely on to New Empire Day, because it is New Empire Day as we record this. We obviously have a show called The Shameless Plug, where I sit down with Nick Dissemy and the Empire Editor to talk about what's in the issue every month.

41:46Chris Hewitt:So we're not going to give you the in-depth hard sell at this point, but it is a fantastic issue. It is our second issue with Chris Nolan's The Odyssey on the cover. And it is three covers, basically. So you can choose between Matt Damon, Matt Damon as Odysseus. You can choose between Anne Hathaway, Anne Hathaway as Penelope, or Tom Holland. Tom Holland as Telemachus, who is Odysseus' and Penelope's son. Very exciting. Nick was on set of The Odyssey. I believe he lived in Chris Nolan's house for 10 years, hidden inside a small wooden horse, and got the inside scoop. And there's loads of other great stuff inside there as well.

42:32Chris Hewitt:But go and pick it up right now. It is on sale on All Good, Evil, and Virtual News Agents. Highly to your news agents, please. It is a fantastic, fantastic issue. Shall we have a guest? Let's. Shall we have guests, in fact? Hurrah. Shall we have Olivia Wilde and Edward Norton? Yeah, I know. I said on the last week's show, I wasn't sure it was going to happen. But it is happening. although it hasn't happened yet because Alex is about to do it in what an hour or so? Indeed one hour so let's just assume everything went amazingly. Yes if it isn't them if it all goes horribly wrong then you're going to hear some Phil Lord and Chris Miller but if not you're going to hear Olivia Wilde and Edward Norton who are the stars of this week's new comedy The Infight but Olivia Wilde is also the director of this and it is a very very self-contained comedy about a couple played by Olivia Wilde and Seth Rogen who are perhaps going through a rocky patch in their marriage and one night she invites over their upstairs neighbours played by Pelby Cruz and Edward Norton who are a little bit freer with their attitude towards certain things in life shall we say and shenanigans ensue I adore this movie I think it's absolutely terrific I think you do too, Alex.

43:55Chris Hewitt:We'll talk about that in the review section in just a second. And there's going to be a lot to talk about. And here is Alex talking to them about it. Enjoy. Olivia Wilde and Edward Norton, thank you so much for joining me today and letting me join you. I'm going to get straight into it. I love this film so much. I'm sure you're hearing that from everybody. um i found it i don't i don't know how much i'm going to get into this probably not a lot but i found it as scary as it did funny good right i found it to be honest but let's say not in an obsession style scary in a except in box office in a deep emotional feeling you were on an emotional existential cliff kind of scary well that's just me day to day but no i did i I felt like for people in long-term relationships, I found it like instructional, let's say.

44:50That's good. How about provocative? All of the things. Instructional. Oh, instructional like this is a path, there's wisdoms in this for you to follow. Take note of this. There might be some things in here that could help you. A few nuggets. A few nuggets. Take away. Have you had all sorts of people bearing their souls here, having watched it and wanted to tell you about their personal lives and what the film did for them. I have had some really vulnerable conversations with people from strangers to friends to family. And I think that's since production, which was the most fun I've ever had, it's been really fun to experience the kind of chemical equation of movie plus audience.

45:39Yeah. And it's not something you can plan for. There's alchemy there. it is always surprising. And even though the studio system tries to create a kind of math equation that will lead to a certain result, it's totally impossible and nobody knows anything. But we have had this experience where this film was one thing. Now, connecting with audiences, it's becoming something that is theirs, That is an entity in which they're plugging their projections and experiences. And it's been so interesting to hear from people who have gone with their partners or want to bring their partners or want to. Or don't want to bring their partners.

46:23Or don't. But most people do. And I'm really proud of that. I think people think that any movie that does acknowledge that relationships are hard is inherently unromantic and sort of not something you'd want to bring a date to. And I actually think this one is making people not only kind of titillated, but actually excited to lean into relationships. I'm intrigued to know what it was like for the four of you to get comfortable with each other. So just for people listening who don't know, there's a brilliant script written by Rashida Jones and Wilma Cormack. I know that you all got together for rehearsals for a couple of weeks and with the writers and went through it and sort of retooled it to quite a great extent.

47:11Right. Did the four of you all know each other already? Bit. Pretty much. Yeah. Penelope and I have known each other for a long, long time. Yeah. Seth and Olivia have worked together and known each other a good while. Yeah, about 20 years. Seth and I go with, my wife produced 40-Year-Old Virgin and Superbad and many others with Pineville Express with Seth. And I mean, he's kind of like in her crew. And so I've known Seth a long time and we've made a few, I've jumped into his, you know, Sausage Party, a very similar film to this one. In some ways. There is an orgy in Sausage Party. It is the double feature that I hoped for.

47:56Wait. No, it's not Seth. I was going to say it's Dave Krumholtz and Salma, and I have a three-way between the taco. Oh, wow. It is the spiritual cinematic cousin. I guess you're just attracted to that sort of material. Yeah, exactly. No. I hadn't met Penelope, though. I met Penelope on Zoom in a conversation for this movie. I had met her maybe briefly socially. Which, by the way, was probably the perfect dynamic for you, if there was one person for you not to have met. Yes. I was so completely starstruck. That is exactly how Angela should feel. You're right. Yeah, she's in awe of her. In awe. And it's funny because Penelope is such a brilliant actress that one would think that she is something like Pina based on the power she emits on screen and this incredible, just, yeah, there's a swagger to Pina.

48:48it's very different than the Penelope swagger. Penelope herself is very, very, very, very different. And I think that - She's much gentler, much more recessive in sweet ways. Yeah. Gosh. So it's, you know, I thought of her as a Pina when I wanted her to do the film. I remember her saying to me, maybe two days before we started filming, she came into my office and she said, I don't think I'm this, I think you think I'm already this woman. And I don't, I don't know if I am, I don't know if I have the power of Pina, if I have, and I was like, Penelope, you have to step outside yourself and see you as I see you.

49:33And I assure you, you have more than enough power for Pina. And as we've seen in the performance, she certainly did. When you spent those two weeks together, like, so we've just established some of you knew each other, worked together, more or less, over years and years. But Olivia, you had to wrangle all of this and make something brilliant out of those sessions. Were there ground rules laid down? Was it like anything goes? Or was it if you don't want to talk about stuff, don't talk about it? Because I imagine you were genuinely talking about your own private thoughts and feelings and your private lives and your partners or was whether to a certain extent some of us more than others and i think it was a it was a it was a an exercise in the best way to get at authenticity which sometimes meant sharing a personal anecdote but other times meant sharing an observation that felt really helpful for us in terms of a way to tell the story um more accurate more clearly in a more entertaining way.

50:35But I wanted that period to be really about brainstorming together, but also just about relaxing together. We're both friends of Spike Jonze. I worked for Spike and adore him and his way of working. But I went to him before we started and I said, what do you think the best way to rehearse is? I taped out the lines of the set on the ground of the soundstage and I thought you know that'd be good and he's like I don't ever think that's useful he's like rehearsal is really just talking and relaxing and just getting rid of these barriers and I think that's really true for us it was getting rid of the barriers and also just finding a way to make this to put this movie through the filter of our specific personalities what about you were you comfortable Edward doing talking through it all yeah because I don't I agree I think the the intent isn't to go in and go through some you know um hoffman institute like personal breakdown of everything with each other for no purpose there's a there's a there's a goal which is um there's there's a story there's a framework it's the armature we had this great framework of of an original the spanish film that it was based on that olivia and i both loved yeah and then the sort of the armature of the script and i only say that in the sense that rashida and will kind of transposed this great basic conceit of the two couples but it it left a lot of wide open space for olivia to lead us into and flesh out and she and when you say you talk about rules of engagement, she said from the get-go, I actually, I want to go quite a bit deeper into them individually, into their histories as couples, and illuminate this.

52:41I'll take my character, for example. It wasn't like Olivia saying, Edward, tell me the things that have happened to you that will inform Hawk. It was more a talk amongst all of us. A ton gets thrown into the sausage, you know, to the stew bowl. And then in some sense with everybody, but then Olivia with each of us, it's like, well, you know, Hawk wasn't even named Hawk. So it's a story I shared. I'll give you an example. A story I shared of a friend of mine, older friend who in his mid fifties had a midlife crisis, not Hawk's story in the end of the day, but who changed his name from Howard to Hawk.

53:22And when, and we talked, we were sort of, talking about it as one thing out of the memory drawer of a person. And when I mentioned it and said, maybe this character, his name was Shane, maybe his radical commitment to honesty, availability, sexuality, all of it is rooted in something that wasn't so easy for him. He's at a different place. Joe's not there yet, but he can see Joe. His saying, I love you is not bullshit. It's like he can see himself, but what was that older self? And we got talking about all kinds of things. And I brought up something in my observed world of this thing, Hawk. And Olivia literally said, what could be better than that?

54:06That's a person who changed his name to Hawk. She loved it so much that I went and asked him for permission and said, can we actually do this in our film? And he said, yes. and I'm using that as an example of and from that many things occur I shared a story about a friend with a passion for carpets and we realized that's the hook for us we didn't have the hook for us in the script Angela has bought the carpet but Angela and Hawke's Angela and Shane's flirtation was you know in fairness it was like a placeholder it was indicated at But the work of going deeper, which Olivia really, when you say, what did she do?

54:51She opened up the gateway and just said, let's fill this space with much more to activate it. And so for us, for instance, it's to say, well, but what sparks their connection? What is it? And it was just rug. And then I said, oh, I had this friend who had an erotic passion for rugs. And we realized, that's great. So there's another piece comes in, right? And what happens is this accumulation by spending time together and being intimate personally, yes, but in some sense more meditating on the themes of a thing like this, you start to build this bed of specificity. and and when you start to find that then something really interesting happens which is she'll say Angela's going to give Hawk now a tour of an apartment now we've got something which is we've got our anchor which is they love they love aesthetic things and he sees that thing in her and her husband doesn't and so then Olivia did things like say I don't even want to script it let's walk through the apartment and vibe on each other and riff and and that's probably some of the most improvisatory work i think we've all ever done it was there was more improvisation in this film than any film i've ever worked on some of it seems genuinely genuine on camera oh yes because of this whole process when you both watch the film can you see more of you know yourselves in it than you ordinarily would do in a more conventionally made film where you just come and do the script else asked that but what i don't see is me at all i see but what i see what i see a lot that is very unusual to me is what i know were authentic reactions like me reacting to something olivia said unprepared that makes me laugh at her with her there's a lot of there's a lot of real surprise Amusement Flirtation There's a lot going on that wasn't scripted That I loved I think For me personally There definitely is more of me In this Than I've ever Put into anything I did a fully improvised film called Drinking Buddies It was a mumblecore film That Joe Swanberg directed It's a term they hate So I almost feel terrible using it mumblecore which is so derogatory i hate it they're not mumbling we didn't mumble we spoke very clearly um but it was that's sort of how most people know that group but joe swamberg made this film drinking buddies all we had was an outline the whole thing was improvised and that was the first time i as an actor felt real authorship of a story it was the beginning of me thinking maybe i could make a film and since that i remember watching that film and feeling very revealed like whoa that's just me and i suddenly was like is this what they mean when they say like acting is not acting acting is just being and oh whoops yeah now i get it i've really rarely ever done that and in this movie i i felt revealed by it in a way that um thrilled me because i just I think that characters like this for women specifically are typically forced into a kind of an archetype that is pretty like one-dimensional or simplified there's like the hot mess or you know like there's just usually they're not very human and I felt so lucky to play someone who was like really struggling and flawed, but you see where it's all coming from.

58:43So the actor in me is like, oh, I got to pour so much of myself into this role and I felt really, there was great catharsis in it and I feel revealed. The director in me, which feels like a totally different person, recognizes that there was no single isolated performance. It really was like a hive mind. It really was this collective expression. We were serving something outside of ourselves. It pays off so well. We've got to wrap up. I just want to say, I'm assuming none of those early sessions working through it were recorded, but I can see the eight-hour Peter Jackson version of how this came together.

59:24Get back for everything. It would be so fascinating as a DVD extra, but I'm assuming that was never going to happen. No, it was not. You know what? Unless Seth did it, we don't even know. It's funny you say that because I had this thing. Now you get into this process and now you're sort of reflecting and you have to have conversations in a short span. And so you do just what we've done here, which is you cherry pick a few examples that illuminate the process, right? Yeah. But I was actually thinking about it in the course of yesterday. I was like, when I think through those days, it's wild how intensive it is for, it's like running a sustained race or something.

1:00:11You really have to like get it up and keep it up to stay, to make it work. Like the hive mind thing is right. It's almost like if everybody wasn't mentally holding hands, you'd fall off. the thing. And it is pretty wild, this one. It's pretty wild what a sustained effort of close collaboration to say, are we on the path together? We think we are. Yes, that worked. What comes next? Yes, that worked. What comes next? To see, can you make it to the end and feel good about it? It was wild. Yeah. It was really wild. it's incredible I love it so so much I'm so happy thank you both for talking to me thank you thanks

1:01:01Chris Hewitt:okay that was Olivia Wilde and Edward Norton talking to Alex Godfrey I wonder if they extended you an interesting invite Alex we'll find out gentlemen never tells gentlemen never tells alright let's talk about the invite then Jimbo why don't you set the scene for this more than I already have

1:01:20Alex Godfrey:yes indeed this is a rather nice rally for Olivia Wilde because obviously followed Booksmart with a slightly disappointing, don't worry, darling, but this is, as you have said, a very, very good film. It's an English-language remake of Sesc Guy's Spanish comedy from 2020, The People Upstairs, which itself was adapted from Guy's stage play, which, Helen, I'm so sorry, I'm going to attempt to say in Spanish, Los Vecinos de Arriba. Sound good? Los Vecinos de Arriba. Exactly, that's exactly what I said. So it's been adapted by Rashida Jones and Wilma Cormack, and it is, exactly as you said, a very theatrical, largely single location story of two couples having dinner that they may or may not want to have.

1:02:01Alex Godfrey:So Seth Rogen plays Joe, who's a music teacher, and Olivia Wilde plays Angela, his wife, and their marriage has, I think it's fair to say, stagnated, it's kind of collapsed into a sea of resentment and microaggressions, which is somehow exacerbated when Angela, unbeknownst to him, invites the upstairs neighbours, who he doesn't love, over for dinner. This is Pina, played by Penelope Cruz, and Hawk, played by Edward Norton. And they sit down for awkward conversation, canapes and indeed dinner. And I think it's fairly safe to say the evening takes some unexpected turns while exploring relationships, sex, philosophy, happiness, middle age and all of that stuff.

1:02:39Alex Godfrey:This film was shot in 21 days, which is absolutely mad. But I think the idea was to maintain the kind of high pressure, continuous sort of velocity of this single location type play. and my understanding certainly is that it was a shot sequentially but they were allowed to heavily improvise the dialogue and inject their own personalities into the character which i think really comes across as well which is great um it's so real like there is a truthfulness to this which is at once incredible but also really uncomfortable because i think you can't help but feel seen in a certain way like if it feels like you relate to it in a very awkward maybe way that you don't particularly want to.

1:03:22Alex Godfrey:There's a universality to the way it charts the ups and downs of relationship evolution and stagnation, let's be honest. It's very funny. It's occasionally very squirm-inducing. I thought it was very thoughtful. It was really insightful. Also kind of devastating, but with a thread of hope in there as well. So it kind of takes you all over the place. And I think a lot of that is the performances, which I thought were universally great across the board. You know, it is. It's love and it's resentment and it is stagnation and aging and sex and jealousy, malaise, anger, you know, all of that stuff, desire.

1:03:54Alex Godfrey:It kind of covers the whole gamut of it. And I think Seth Rogen is an acquired taste, I think. Oh, is he? I think so. I think he's great. He can be great. He can also be, to my mind, deeply irritating. But, and I love him in the studio and I really love him in this. And I think he plays that character perfectly because he is deeply irritating, as they all are, to a greater extent, and deliberately so. Because all of those characters wear their flaws on their sleeves. They're very open with who they are. We get to see maybe the worst parts of themselves you wouldn't necessarily want to show to other people.

1:04:26Alex Godfrey:And I think he plays that incredibly well. He's really pissy all the way through the film and it's very funny. And I think what this kind of does is it shines a light on the kind of, the tragedy sometimes of adult relationships and how, you know, Hollywood teaches you that love is one thing, but in reality, love very often isn't that thing. And it goes through a number of different phases. Not all of them are great. And there's a real vulnerability, I think, both to the writing and the performances here. So I really like this. I think it's a very adult comedy. It's really interesting. I laughed out loud at least three times and that is almost fucking unheard of.

1:05:00Alex Godfrey:Right. So, which is wild. It is Olivia Wilde, in fact. It is not a date movie, I would say. But other than that, I thought this was genuinely fantastic. I was unprepared for how good it was, actually. Yeah, same. I think this is absolutely her on Booksmart form. I think it's really well directed as well. It's not just, I mean, it has a terrific screenplay. Will McCormack and Rashida Jones obviously did the adaptation, but it is also just really well-directed. Even though it's one location, it doesn't feel static. It doesn't feel stagey. It feels lived in and alive and free. And I just loved it.

1:05:35I wasn't prepared for how much I was going to love it. I'd heard good things. I'd heard good buzz before I went in, but I really wasn't expecting it to be as funny as it is. I didn't used to like Seth Rogen, but now I'm just like all in. I can't remember the last thing he did that I didn't love.

1:05:49Alex Godfrey:He has aged like a fine wine, I think, in terms of his output. He really, really has. But everybody here, like Edward Norton is not someone really known for his lols, but he's very good here. He brings a lot of laughs. He really does. The one that had me properly barking laughter was one of his. Yeah. He's so good. And just all of them. There's not a weak link. There's not a weak moment. It's a small film. It's not epic. It's not going to change the world. it's not for everyone but I think it's really terrific for what it is really really good I absolutely loved it it's a real magic trick I think because there's a real looseness to it because it feels so organic and so improvised and some of it was but some of it was you know the script was written but then they all spent a couple of weeks together figuring it out and pouring their own experiences into it and improvising and then building that into I guess shooting script but then there were more improvisations on set and you can really tell when you're watching it that there's a genuine truth and you don't get this in a lot of films in a lot of fictional films especially with actors of this calibre where you can feel they're actually putting themselves into it you know, you can tell that they're working it out together and that there's real thoughts and feelings and opinions going on and it does really feel quite heated at times there is an underlying sweetness to it and there are glimmers of lightness and hope, but it's really, really vicious.

1:07:17And all the bickering in there and all the snappiness at each other is so real. And I can only imagine, you know, apart from the fact that there's also a brilliant screenplay behind it, they worked all this out together and made sure that there was a real genuine authenticity to it. And you feel you're watching it and you feel like you're in there. And that's to do with Olivia Wilde's direction and I guess the production design cinematography as well. However they've staged it, you feel like you're sort of stuck in there with them going through this situation. And what I like best about it is that it is really, really funny.

1:07:50It is an out-and-out comedy, but it's an incredible tonal tightrope they walk because it's exploring some really serious, heavy human things. And it succeeds in doing both of those things at the same time for the whole film. And I was laughing the whole time, and also I felt the whole time a real heaviness to it. And when I think back to the film, as much as it made me laugh, my takeaway from it is the really meaty, to be honest, quite upsetting stuff.

1:08:20Chris Hewitt:I was legitimately moved by the last 20 minutes. I did not expect that at all because the first, I don't know how long this movie is, about 105, something like that. So the first 80 minutes is just hilarious. And I'm really surprised, Jimbo, you connected with this because it's cringe comedy of the highest order.

1:08:36Alex Godfrey:It is, but weirdly, it's not the particular flavour of cringe comedy that really, really just reduces me to a puddle on the floor. And I wonder whether it's just like the pathos is so tangible. And it's witty as well. It is very witty, and I really do appreciate the writing in this. But I think anyone who's been in a long-term relationship will see that very particular excruciating mix of affection and just weaponised passive aggression. And it's just like, I mean, yeah, it hits quite close to home. And sometimes just straight-out aggression. Right, absolutely. and just how someone could be because Seth Rogen and he's not afraid to just be like just a massive cock all the way through which I appreciate that and you still feel for him.

1:09:14Chris Hewitt:Yeah, I don't think the movie takes sides with anyone at all. Everyone's sympathetic to a degree. Everyone's a dickhead to a degree. That's why it works. Really, really. It's terrific. I mean, it's come out in the summer but I've already seen some people say that it could be an Oscar contender and there's a moment where Edward Norton has a speech towards the end which I think I was just like, oh, okay. that's supporting actor nomination locked in I think for that one but Seth Rogen's amazing Penelope Cruz is amazing Olivia Wilde who's wearing two hats in this movie it's exceptional doing both yeah this and I will caveat this with I haven't seen Obsession yet I still haven't seen Obsession yet I keep meaning to but the World Cup keeps getting in the way that's my obsession at the moment this is my film of the year so far I absolutely I was levitating out of the cinema afterwards it really did a number on me top five for me.

1:10:03Chris Hewitt:Top three, maybe. There you go. Definitely top five. Helen and James both agree with me. Their favorite film of the year so far. That's all I heard. So, we gave this four. That was me. I gave it four. And there have been people who asked me why I didn't give it five. And it's because I would say it's up there. It's nearly. I don't think it's a flat out 100 % masterpiece, but it's not far off. I mean, I have to see it again and probably will see it again.

1:10:25Alex Godfrey:It's a good job it doesn't compare in an odd way to another film that we're reviewing this week that got five stars. So, that's good.

1:10:30Chris Hewitt:And the film which James is referring to is Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie. Alex? This is a brilliant film. This is a five-star film. And if I were reviewing it, I would also have given it five stars because it's a piece of genius. James, it's not for you. That much is true. So thank you for your contribution. I don't have to say anything else. This is directed by Matt Johnson who is incredible. He's a one-of-a-kind director. He's a gonzo director. He's pure chaos energy on screen, off screen, both here. He came out the gate, I think, in 2008 with a film called The Dirties, which was an astonishing take on school shootings.

1:11:11And he came out of nowhere. He more recently did Blackberry, which was a film that no one expected. And again, that was a very anarchic film. Cameras, the cast didn't quite know where they were. It felt like it was all on the fly, but it was unexpectedly emotional. He's just an anarchic guy making anarchic films. and he's done that again here to the max. So yes, this is him and his, I think, genuine best friend, Jay McCarroll. They've been buddies forever. They've been doing this sort of skit, as it were, for a good 20 years or so. They play two musicians in a band called Nirvana, the band, that's a joke.

1:11:48It's nothing to do with Nirvana, the actual band. There's three N's in Nirvana instead of two. I think it didn't start off like that, but later on for legal reasons, they were told maybe you should do that. They did a couple of web series 15, 20 years ago. Then they did a series for Vice on TV. And now they've made this movie, and it's an absolute meta masterpiece. Ostensibly, it's about these couple of musicians, Matt and Jay, playing Matt and Jay in Toronto. It's a very, very Toronto film. So Toronto. And all they want to do is play a gig at this venue, The Rivoli, which is not Wembley Stadium.

1:12:22That's their whole mission in life. I think that's been the foundation of everything they've done before on TV, and as it is again in this film. But this one takes that idea to epic proportions. And I don't want to give it away as fun as it would be to discuss it. Let's just say it riffs on some very big things on pop culture and it involves time travel in the most low-ren, ingenious, gonzo way. And what's outstanding about it is that when they did this web series 20 years ago, they filmed themselves for hundreds of hours, literally. And because there's a time travel conceit involved here, they use a lot of that footage.

1:12:58and their editors, who they always work with, went through all this footage and said, oh, we've got this, maybe you could do this. And they were feeding ideas to them and they built a plot around it. And I just, I watched this whole film and I thought the whole thing was gobsmacking. It's really funny. It's really, really clever. It is genuinely quite stirring because I think it's, at the end of the day, forget everything else I've just talked about, it's a brilliant film about male friendship. Well, it's certainly this male friendship and about the ups and downs they have and the little petty jealousies and resentments they have for each other and the bromance and the love they have for each other.

1:13:32And it's put together amazingly. It's a pretty simple bromance friendship drama, but the way it's done is like nothing else. You've seen, I think, it's genuinely startling. There was one scene which is so shocking and so funny at the same time. When it happened, James, your eyebrow's been raised for three minutes. You can just put it down.

1:13:53Chris Hewitt:he's doing as people said in our Empire Plus photographs he's doing DreamWorks animation face and he is oh by the way we changed the artwork for one of those things already we have we've changed the logos because I took a look at our podcast feed and it was just too much of us so we've changed it anyway I'm getting that live in the flesh and it's quite upsetting but anyway I just think everything that this film is trying to do regardless of whether James likes it or not I couldn't I don't think there's one percent of this film that doesn't work I don't think there's one second of it that doesn't work gangbusters in terms of what they were intending for it I think it's really distinctive I think it's really funny I think it's quite emotional and I had such an exciting time it's pure energy and you won't see anything else like it it's a really really beautiful film about friendship and it's also fucking hilarious and I think the contrast of their low rent aspirations to play in this it looks moderately sized club right it does it looks like the limelight in belfast or something i don't know how to put that in london terms because i don't go to enough gigs it looks just small and this is the height of their ambitions for 17 years has been to play this one club and and then they go to these extraordinary wild deeply stupid completely sci-fi length to do so.

1:15:20And I just think that's beautiful. In the same way that I love the mad portrayal of male friendship in the Jackass movies, I love the mad portrayal of male friendship in this movie because it's about as realistic. But it's so, so heartwarming and charming and sweet. A lot of it is realistic. A lot of it is actually real. I mean, these are two guys going out on the streets of Toronto doing mad shit for real and just capturing it on camera. It's part jackass, part Borat, isn't it?

1:15:49Alex Godfrey:Part Bill and Ted. Like, it's all of those things together. You're just making it sound better. Yeah, but not as good as any of those things because it doesn't have any of the gross-out madness that jackass has. Which is good. It's nowhere near as clever or thoughtful as Borat and it's not as funny as fucking Bill and Ted. Untrue. I found Matt Johnson supernaturally irritating. This film drove me fucking mad. I found the one joke that they flogged to death over the course of the film's runtime to be deeply, deeply annoying. And it really, really tried my patience. And all the way through this, I was thinking, this is a Ben Travis special.

1:16:23Alex Godfrey:He must be stopped. I'm going to make my own time machine. I'm going to go back in time and I'm going to make him stop. But it turns out, I need to kill you two as well. This is very, very upsetting to me. And I think if he heard this now, he would find it. He'd probably appreciate it. If he knew my relationship with comedy, he'd probably be like, yes, I have succeeded. And that may well be true. Well, this film is clearly not designed to appeal to everyone. this is not a tentpole movie no it's not I think it's one of these things as well because it has a very specific note that it hits so it's kind of repetitive in the extent that it knows what it's good at and it does it and if you're not on board with that which I very much am not then it's just irritating over the run time and I just couldn't get there because I was like you know because obviously they are deliberately barely a band the show was hardly a show and this is only just a movie like it's just yeah it's very much not for me it's not only just a movie it's an exquisite piece of work it's a crazy movie I honestly it's like I'm taking crazy pills

1:17:13Chris Hewitt:five stars then for Lerfane and the band to show the movie I haven't seen it yet but James you'll love it yeah that's a recommendation if James hates a comedy this viscerally it's a comedy I hate it you might love it it sounds like an absolute belter alright five stars then for that movie and what about I love the comedy I'm very very much looking forward to Minions and Monsters Hells Bells hello hello yes this is the new Pierre Coffin Minions Peter Coffin If you must. It's got a weird framing device, which is Alice and Janney as a museum guide taking a bunch of humans around a museum of movie stuff.

1:17:54Right. And it's filled with lots of universal things and other stuff. And they come to the statue of two minions. And she explains that these two were pivotal in movie history. And everyone's like, huh? And so she tells them the story of James and Henry, the two minions at the heart of this movie. and we learn about their past serving for example a cyclops and a wicked warlock and stealing his book and then they end up in kind of early Hollywood now it does have the minions then going through a whole bunch of like silent movie tropes and early Hollywood stars and encounters and that is a lot of fun and then we get into the and monsters part of the title which involves them basically summoning up a baby Cthulhu and getting into some trouble at that point.

1:18:41Chris Hewitt:Right. So I was having a really good time with the first half of this movie, which was the old Hollywood stuff, even as I sat there and went, well, women's suffrage was well settled before sound came in. And things like that, because there is a women's suffragette character who's voiced by Zoe Doge, for example, who falls in love with a guy in a robot suit voiced by Jesse Eisenberg. It's a whole thing. but I you know so I was really there for all the Hollywood stuff and then I didn't care at all about the monster stuff and I have no interest whatsoever in Minions feelings that makes me sound like a supervillain I hope James appreciated that I do thank you but I don't care about their feelings and anytime these films try to be sincere I'm a bit like bored now which is probably what my small niece and nephew will also be thinking but the chaos stuff in this film is very fun and the Hollywood the old Hollywood stuff is very fun Chris this might be the thing that finally gets you to like Charlie Chaplin I don't know it could happen no that's not possible so I had real fun with the Hollywood bits and no fun at all with the monster bits but you know if you're look you already know if you're going to go see this film if you have children under 10 you're probably already booked to see this film and they will have fun and they may get into some conversations with you and you may want to have at the very least clips of safety last and modern times No, not modern times.

1:20:00Chris Hewitt:Just safety last week. Well, I'm just saying. No chaplain. On the computer when you get home. But it, you know, so it might get some interesting conversations started with kids, and I really hope it does. But it's also just fun in its own right for its audience. But I just, you know, we don't need sincerity from Minions. I will also say, of course, that I think this is probably, and I think I'm clear in saying this, this is Universal's very best movie this month to feature a Cyclops. I don't think there's going to be any question on that score whatsoever. If I had the only movie, right? I don't think it's going to be another one.

1:20:33I can't imagine there's another one. So, yeah, this should really have that title sewn up. Yeah. All right. Fantastic. Alex, very, very quickly on this one. I completely agree, actually. The first 30 or 40 minutes of this film, I was laughing so much. I loved what they did with history. The Buster Keaton, Harold Lloyd, Citizen Kane. I mean, it was done so cleverly. It was done with genuine passion, I think, as well. You can tell that Pierre Coffin loves this stuff. He's a real old school cinephile. And for the first 30, 40 minutes, I honestly thought this is the most insane thing I've ever seen.

1:21:06And also it was done so beautifully with the choreography. It was hilarious. Again, I sort of, it wore thin for me, all the monster stuff. That actually felt like more of a conventional one of these sort of films. Yeah, really boring. The only thing I would say for that thing, it was okay, but Trey Parker is very good value as Goomy, a megalomaniac with all Cthulhu's squid person. And yeah, a film very much of two halves, but the first half is absolutely joyous.

1:21:29Chris Hewitt:All right, what did we give it? Three stars. Three, wow. Who reviewed this? John Nugent. Oh, bring him to me. In fact, he's coming here right now to do a Toy Story 5 Sportage Special. Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen. Of course, I can't get angry about it. I haven't seen the film, but that just feels mean-spirited. What did the Minions ever do to John Nugent? That's what I want to know. Well, tried to, you know, accidentally cause the destruction of the Earth, for example, a couple of times. that's fine bygones three stars anyway then for Minions and Monsters and real quick Enola Holmes 3 opened this week as well on Netflix Millie Bobby Brown back of course as Sherlock Holmes' younger smarter sister Henry Cavill in it briefly because Sherlock Holmes gets kidnapped yes in this Himesh Patel as Dr.

1:22:15Chris Hewitt:Watson there's all sorts of stuff going on it's filmed in multiple they don't mention it every five minutes directed by Philip Barantini who directed Boiling Point Adolescence and this is just as hard hitting and gritty I would say wouldn't you say Hell's Bells? Yeah it's I'm not sure those are the words I'd apply but look if you like Enola Holmes this is more of that she's on her way to get married to her long term squeeze played by Lewis Partridge when Himesh Patel's Doctor Watson tells her that her brother has been kidnapped and then she of course has to swing into action rescue him instead but that's all to the good because she's already having you know angst about being a lady she's going to be a lady So it allows her to work out all her issues as well.

1:22:57Chris Hewitt:While looking at the camera a lot. A lot. A lot of chatting to the camera. A lot of breaking the fourth wall. Exactly. And figuring stuff out. Look, it's fun and silly. And I wonder if I'm going to remember anything about the plot in a week. But as these films go, it's Pacey. She's good in the role. It's a great cast around her. I don't want to mention all the people who are coming back because, spoiler, but they're all back. Surprises. Big surprises. Oh, I can't believe that person's back. Really? Yeah. Okay. I was less surprised perhaps. Big shock when that person showed up. You know what I'm talking about.

1:23:31I know the one. Yeah. Well, it could be one or two. Anyway. Or four.

1:23:35Chris Hewitt:It's really hard to tell. But I'm glad to see the Enola Holmes mythology just deepening and getting richer with every hour. Yeah. Don't you think? I don't think. Okay. Okay. But, you know, three stars. Three stars.

1:23:48Alex Godfrey:The definition of a three-star film. Like, it's fine. It's okay. It's like, I think, half an hour shorter than Enola Holmes 2 but feels half an hour longer which is an interesting one. That's because I keep mentioning Malta. I mean there is that. It does feel a little bit like it's paid for by the Maltese Tourist Board but it's really convoluted. Like really convoluted. There are like it talks about there's kidnapping, there's murder, there's last knee, there's you know the shadow of British colonialism. There's kind of a lot going on and it's occasionally hard to follow because these are odd because they're not kids movies.

1:24:17Alex Godfrey:They're not really adult movies. They seem to occupy this kind of early teen space in terms of tone. very much a kind of YA thing but I think at the younger end of the YA spectrum Jordies will love it YA man Christ yeah anyway

1:24:29Chris Hewitt:three stars Enola Holmes three three stars then for Enola Holmes the band the show the movie very very exciting indeed significantly funnier than that oh wow okay get out on that note that is it for this week's Empire Podcast join us next week for more film related fun where we'll be joined by well next week sees the release of Evil Dead Burn, the latest movie in the Evil Dead franchise. And we'll be joined by that film's stars, Suella Yacoub. And I will spend the next week learning how to actually pronounce her name. I apologize if I didn't get it right. And Hunter Dewan. And I will also spend the next week learning how to pronounce his name as well.

1:25:12Chris Hewitt:That is an extremely gory film, by the way, folks. I don't think I'm breaking embargo to tell you that. But anyway, until then, until we meet again until that auspicious occasion it's goodbye from my three colleagues of such lethal cunning goodbye James Dyer goodbye Chris Hewitt goodbye Alex Godfrey off to do Edward Norton and Olivia Wilde as it were as it were it's goodbye from Helen O 'Hara toodaloo and it's goodbye from me I'm off to lock James in a frozen cave so he can get up to no mischief from now on with Nirvana the band on loop forever playing on a loop forever Never until you're 90.

1:25:51Alex Godfrey:Empire, the show, the twats, the podcast. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Bye-bye.