8 Pillars That Drive Massive Results with David Horsager: An EOFire Classic from 2021

0:01Light that, Sparkfire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire. Brought to you by the HubSpot. podcast network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like Created with John Ushai. Today, we're pulling a classic episode from the archives, and we'll be breaking down eight pillars that drive massive results. To drive these value bombs, I brought to David Horsager and to EO Fire Studios. David is the Wall Street Journal bestselling author of The Trust Edge and leading globe expert in building high trust leaders and organizations. Today's value bombs are if you want to connect with more people, be grateful.

0:34There's always a cost when there's a lack of trust. And be good at asking the question, how, at least three times, and oh, so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to David and our sponsors. The Next Wave, your chief AI officer, hosted by Matt Wolf and Nathan Lanz, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Matt and Nathan are leading AI creators in your guiding light in the AI and technology frontier. AI AI technology is transforming the way we do business and the media landscape is fragmented. The Next Wave strives to be the leading podcast on AI technology and how you can apply it to growing your business.

1:13Listen to The Next Wave wherever you get your podcasts. David, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. JLD, great to be here. Hey, everybody. I'll give you two things real quick. Number one, many people think trust is a soft skill. I absolutely do not believe trust is a soft skill. In fact, I believe it affects the bottom line more than anything else. And following that, I believe a lot of people believe in absolutes, like it's absolutely this, absolutely that there's no absolute other than trust. So in other words, people think, oh, persevere.

1:53We have to live as entrepreneur's intention. People say, oh, early bird gets the worm, but be patient. Well, sometimes you got to get the worm. Sometimes you got to be patient. Persevere or pivot. Some people persevere right off the cliff. Some people pivot too early. So there's my two. Trust is not a soft skill. And secondly, there's no absolute accept trust. Well, Fire Nation, you can tell this is going to be a punchy, enthusiastic, high-energy interview with David and myself, for sure. And as I mentioned in the intro, he is the author of The Trust Edge. So I want to start by talking about trust work.

2:31What is trust work, and how did it originate in your world? Trust Edge was the first book, Wall Street Journal bestseller, then Daily Edge, and the new book that just came out is Trusted Leader. But basically, this all goes back a couple decades. I was asked to consult with these leadership and sales organizations, and I kept just intuitively at the time saying, you know what? The issue they think they're having, that's not a leadership issue. The reason they're not following the leader is trust. They don't trust them. That's not a sales issue. The reason people aren't buying is they don't trust the salesperson.

3:04That's not a marketing issue. The only way to amplify a marketing message is increase trust in the message. That's not an innovation issue. If people would trust each other more, they'd actually share ideas and be creative and innovative and all that. That teacher, people aren't learning in that classroom, it turns out, because they don't trust the teacher or the content or the psychological safety or trust of the room. So it kept coming back intuitively. That led to my grad work that became interesting to people much more famous than me at the time. That led to our first work that actually – first organization that kind of proved it out was they said they saved$2 to$4 million in attrition costs in nine months.

3:37And then we did it, you know, everything from companies and corruption issues to pro sports teams to, you know, to to to then the books. And and, you know, now we put out the biggest piece of research, I think, out of North America on trust and leadership. So that was back in ninety nine where all this kind of started. And then along the way, the grad work, the research, the the books and then now used to get in some of the biggest companies and countries, you know, in the world. So that's the quick journey. And along the way, why am I so passionate about it? by the way, it changed me. It changed me as a dad, as a husband, as a leader.

4:10And that's probably why I'm so passionate about it because I see the transformation. I've seen people triple sales. I've seen people say it saved their marriage. Well, I can feel your passion. I can feel your authenticity. And we have a lot to talk about today. I mean, I want to get into the eight pillars of trust. But right before we do, just give us a quick synopsis. According to David himself. Why? Why does trust matter? Trust matters because it is always the root cause. People look for in business and leadership leading versus lagging indicators. Trust is always the leading indicator. Marketing gets amplified when trust in the message goes up.

4:45Leadership gets, you know, influence happens when the leader's trusted. Sales happen when people trust the salesperson or organization. So trust is the root cause. A lack of it's the biggest expense. A simple analogy would be, let's take a lock. The only reason I put a lock on anything is because I don't trust you. So what is the cost? Well, money, I got to buy the lock, but the biggest cost is time. Now I got to open that lock every time I go through the gate. And it's the same with all of us. It's like text someone you trust, boom, it's done. Text someone you don't trust. How long does that take?

5:13Oh, how are they going to take this? How are they going to take it? It costs enormous amount of time. So there's always a cost where there's a lack of trust. And when you increase trust, you've just dealt with the root issue, which then affects a net promoter score, engagement, sales, and culture and everything else. Fire Nation, we have so much to talk about here today. And you can tell that David does not mince words. He is concise. He is clear. He gets a lot said in a short amount of time. So I know it sounds like a lot, but let's walk through these eight pillars of trust. Break these down for us, brother.

5:45You know, I believe, I hope without any ego, but now work on Six Continents, and we have certified coaches on Six Continents dealing with everything from corruption issues to pro sports seems to businesses, that you can solve every leadership and organizational issue against these eight. Doesn't mean it's easy. Doesn't mean we don't contextualize for corruption issues in East Africa versus, you know, New York Yankees issue, whatever, you know. So, but these eight are the framework. And I know everybody wants three points in a poem, but when it comes out of research, you got to give all eight. So here we go.

6:13Eight pillars of trust. Number one, clarity. People trust the clear and they mistrust or distrust the ambiguous or the overly complex. There's a whole, and under each of these, there's takeaways you can use. Trusted Leader has a whole lot of them, but I'm happy to give away, and we're going to give away through links to the whole Entrepreneurs on Fire audience, and we're going to give a whole lot away here if you'd like it. But number one is clarity. You can find the how-how-how strategy or a lot of the different strategies for how to get more clear. But number one, clarity. Number two is compassion.

6:45We trust those that care beyond themselves. We don't want to be accountable to someone or buy from someone if they don't care beyond themselves, even if it's not about me, some mission or something. Number three is character. We trust those that do what's right or what's easy. I thought, oh, character, that's everything. That's so critical. It's so important. It is important. And we have a seven-step process to create an organization on high character. However, it's not everything because number four is competency. I might trust JLD to watch my kids at the ballgame because of his character and compassion, I may not trust him to give me a root canal, right?

7:19Because of your competency. So you have to stay fresh and relevant and capable. That's why your podcast is so amazing because you're helping people be better, helping us be better entrepreneurs and leaders and even people. So if you're selling the way you were 10 years ago, I don't trust you. If you're leading the way you were five years ago, I don't trust you. You got to stay fresh, relevant, competent, and capable. Number five is commitment. We trust those that stay committed in the face of adversity. So you think of anybody in history that's left a legacy, Mandela, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Jesus, or Joan of Arc, and you'll be able to think of somebody that's stayed committed to something beyond themselves.

7:56So commitment is the next one. Now, these all are C words to reference a research funnel, but don't think they're kind of some motivational piece. They all represent a real research funnel. So the next one after commitment is connection. We trust those that are willing to connect and collaborate with others. If I see siloing in our organization, I know I've got a counterforce to that commitment pillar or connection pillar. Next pillar, number seven, is contribution. We trust those that get results. So think of these are the words that came out of that research funnel. Results, performance, outcomes.

8:31You've got to contribute results. You can't just have compassion and character and not contribute the results I expected or asked for. So you think of a surgeon, compassionate surgeon, but we go in for amputation, cuts off the wrong leg. We got a problem, right? We didn't get the results we wanted or expected. The final pillar is consistency. We trust those that do the little things consistently. The only way to build a reputation is consistency. The only way to build a brand is consistency. I have to have the same feel each time. So by the way, for good or bad, so if you're late all the time, I will in fact trust you to be late.

9:07That's the eight pillar framework in fast order. I can speak about any of these for a full day. So in our training and ongoing work, there's a lot here. So I'm happy to go anywhere you want to go. But at least we have a common language because this is really important because people need to solve the real issue. And these are the core issues. These are why it's not an engagement issue. And then even a communication. People say, you got a communication issue, David. Ladies and gentlemen, entrepreneurs on fire. We never have a communication issue. Communication is happening all the time. It's the type clear, clarity, number one pillar.

9:40Clear is trusted. Unclear isn't. Compassion is trusted. Hateful isn't. Consistent is inconsistent. High character communication is trusted. Low character isn't. So we can look against these eight. We can solve an issue. You think, oh, we do it for marketing, for hiring. I mean, take a marketing issue. Okay, well, is this, is this, how we got to amplify the marketing message? Okay, is it clear? Is it show compassion for our people? Is it show our character? Is it consistent with our brand? Is it connecting with our audience? Is it showing the results we get, contribution? And we can just whip through them and say, oh, now I've got a trusted marketing piece.

10:13Fire Nation, so much value here. So many C's here. Clarity. You know I always talk about clarity, Fire Nation. You need to be clear, concise. You need to have clarity with your words, with your actions. I want to jump down to number four, competency. Fire Nation, do not trust me for your root canal, but do trust me for business advice. I wrote a whole book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success, because I have that competency. So know what comments you can trust within people. And then, you know, one that I actually do want you to dive into after the break, David, is connection, because I think that's so powerful, so meaningful.

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12:02Visit HubSpot.com to learn more. One of my favorite places to visit in the late summer months is my home state of Maine. There's just something about being on a lake in August and September that I absolutely love. And now that we have a little one, spending time with family is that much sweeter. Something else I love, sharing my home in Puerto Rico when I'm away. Think about it. If you travel for parts of the year, whether it's for a vacation, a business trip, or to see family, why not Airbnb your home while you're away? It's a good way to earn extra money and the joy of knowing others are enjoying your space is an added bonus.

12:42Plus, with things like the Airbnb setup guide and tips to make your home a great place to stay from experienced Airbnb hosts available to you, getting started is simple. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. So Dave, we're back. And as I kind of tease before the break, we're going to do a little bit more of a deep dive into connection. And then I kind of want you to be a little more general with sharing how these pillars specifically can apply to different roles in different companies. We're talking sales. We're talking HR, finance. I mean, the whole kit and caboodle.

13:19Take it away, brother. First of all, love your book. I have it right here. And that's a fantastic piece, as everybody listening knows. So let's talk about connection pillar. How do we connect and collaborate with each other? You know, when we look at an organization, we see siloing. We've got a counterforce to connection. When we see an unwillingness to collaborate, you know, these are signs. But a couple little tips and takeaways really quick. Number one, in the book, Trusted Leader, just so people have this, there is an amazing activity you can go through called Trust Shield. That activity is breaking down walls at some of the boards of the biggest organizations in the world.

13:59It's unbelievable, the power of that activity. So that's something people can do later if they'd like or go online. Or if you can't afford the book, email us for free and we'll send you that specific activity. But I'll give a couple other ideas. Connection. How do we connect and collaborate? There are several ways we do it. I'll give a couple fun ones. Number one, what is the most magnetic trait in first interaction in humans? What's most magnetic? Now, first of all, you would agree with me, wouldn't you, GLD? there's there's repelling traits in people absolutely what are some repelling traits shout some out really quick jld oh man just being loud obnoxious smelling bad all those things odor odor from odor to arrogance right so that's true so magnetic traits give me a few magnetic traits like this draws you in what would be magnetic traits kind authentic genuine enthusiastic i really do believe that phrase by kevin kelly that enthusiasm is worth 25 iq points isn't that something.

14:54All of these are true. In fact, you hit a few of the top three in those that you just stated. The most magnetic trait, according to the research, ahead of all the others, especially in first interaction, is something very few people ever name. I will hear people say smile and empathy and some of these other things, but the number one most magnetic trait actually is gratitude. We love to be around people that are grateful. And actually, if you build gratitude into your team, your life, your family, almost all the negative traits go away. Grateful people don't tend to be entitled. They don't tend to be pessimistic.

15:33They don't tend to be complainers. I don't even think they smell bad. So gratitude, that's one point in this connection pillar. If we want to connect more with people, be more grateful. You got an opportunity to sell? Be grateful. For me, I will just say, JLD, thank you for having me on your show. I receive that. I do. By the way, of course, it's got to be authentic. But look, you have a very special audience. It's a gift to be able to be on here with this amazing audience you've built. So gratitude is one. What are some other ways we can build connection? The questions, how we ask questions being a great question.

16:11Here you win again. But do we ask the right questions that actually show care for people? So discovery questions and solution-centered questions. We break it down in some of my training with discovery. So a good question might be, where do you want to be in five years? Or what's your hope for the future? Or a CEO, a lot of people use this. What's keeping you up at night? And then on the other side, a solution centered. Okay, so what could you do about that? What would help you with that? So questions can be very magnetic. Stories can build connection. As you know, I think I remember this going to the National Storytelling Festival, this little town, Jonesboro, Tennessee.

16:58And when you come in there, it's got this cool sign on the old museum in this quaint little town where thousands of people come to this little overtake, this little town from all over the world. said, maybe if we heard everyone's story, there would be no more war. And I think there's something, we talk about story, we talk about collaborating with value or delivering value as one of the ways we connect. So a few little ideas from gratitude to being a great storyteller, by the way, where you are not the hero, where I am not the hero. Storytelling where others are the hero. And it could be what, if you're wanting to sell something to an entrepreneur, the product is the hero or the client is the hero.

17:40So a few quick ideas there. Wow. I mean, Fire Nation, there's more than a few ideas here. There's so much value that's being dropped here by David. I want you to really open your mind up to these eight pillars and think how you can apply them to your business. And we talked about this very briefly in a little bit, but I want to do a deeper dive, David, about what happens when people above you aren't trusted. How does trust work then? I'll give you a couple ideas right there. When people above you aren't trusted, first of all, let me say this overall. My work, the basis of my work is mostly what can you do?

18:14So I'll fly to an event today. I've got seven events in seven days coming up here. I'll be at the back. It's just almost guaranteed signing books again. And people come up to me after the event and they'll say, David, I love that keynote on trust. I believe that. I agree with you. My boss should have been here. My kids should have been here. They need it. My spouse needs this stuff. And a lot of people, first of all, I just want to get people thinking, you know what? They're not here. You're here and I'm here. And every time I even hear myself speak about this, I think of things I could do differently.

18:43So we want to start with ourselves. Number one. Number two, I there's there's things you can do to coach this. Like so clarity, like my team knows I struggle with clarity. So they ask me how can. OK, are we are you clear on that? So here's one simple method I talk about with clear communications, ODC. As leaders, I had to learn this the hard way. I was in my 20s when I was put over a whole staff that was all older than me. I wasn't getting what I wanted. I finally got absolutely clear. I started to get what I wanted. And I just came up with this little idea, ODC. I got to make sure I'm clear about the outcome, O, the D, the deadline, and then C, leave room for clarifying questions.

19:26So a lot of times we really micromanage how people should do things. But if we're clear about the outcome, are we clear? This is the outcome I want to see. Are you clear about that? Okay. Here's a deadline. Many times as managers, we don't share the deadline because we're afraid that it will create conflict when in fact, not sharing deadlines will absolutely guarantee conflict. It doesn't mean we know the future like in a year, but we can at least say, can we check on this at 10 p.m. or 10 a.m. on Friday? Like, could we show the next level? Could we get to here? What that that where we can see and then see is leave room for clarifuses.

20:01Are you clear about this? Am I clear about this? There's ways of coaching. There's other ways we can coach up like we can. If I had someone above me that was poisonous, there's a couple of things I would I would do. Number one, people are motivated by things like what they do, like they're there when they see the impact of what they're doing. So sometimes they're blind. So what I'm saying is, hey, leader, I'm going to honor you and say, hey, I'm glad you're my leader. You're doing this and this and this. Do you know when you do that behavior, it turns everybody off? Or do you know that ruins this for you?

20:39When you can show them the pain, as you know, motivation theory, we're either motivated toward or away from and we're much more motivated by pain than pleasure. We might go over and do that thing for pleasure, but you put a tack under my buns, I'm jumping up. So if I can show that, even that leader above me, with respect, the pain they're causing themselves, they might be motivated. Let me also be clear here. When I talk about trust, you might hear me say, oh, he's really, he believes in trust. He should, you know, he wants to trust everyone. No, I want you to be the most trusted because you will become the most influential when you're the most trusted.

21:13But that doesn't mean you should just trust them. I've had people come up to me and say, oh, I want, I'm just going to start trusting this person again. Oh yeah. Trust them to do what they did last night. If that guy did that to you last time, trust that he will do that again. Don't just blind trust, but you and I can become more trusted when we do, we become a trusted leader that gains an incredible advantage. Boy, I'm just thinking of their takeaways in my mind. One more really quick. Yeah. How do you, how do you rebuild trust? How do you rebuild? I would get a 10-step process in the coaching manual and 15-step in my first book, Trust Edge.

21:45But let's talk about this. Everybody here that's listening has broken trust, has ruined something, has made a mistake. Everybody has. So how do you rebuild it? Well, many people think, oh, just it's the apology. You never rebuild trust in the apology. I remember the CEO from the Netherlands came to America. We got to know each other. He'd been here a couple of weeks. I said, what's the first thing you noticed in America? He said, you want to know the first thing, David? You got a bunch of lying apologizers. I got this whole team over here. They say, I'm sorry I'm late. This guy comes in every day.

22:13I'm sorry I'm late. No, you're not. You're late every day. We don't rebuild trust on the apology. Doesn't mean you shouldn't apologize. But the only way to rebuild trust, whether you're a big company with an oil spill or you're an individual, is to make and keep a new commitment. It's the only way. And then there's other steps, too. But we need to think. Some people think we're done when we apologize. And it's just absolutely not true as far as rebuilding trust is concerned. Wow, Fire Nation. If you think that our man David here is dropping this much value during a podcast episode, imagine what his entire book slash books contain.

22:46So just going to keep that in mind there. Now, there's a lot of things that you would want somebody to do differently starting today or tomorrow. But let's just focus on one thing. If Fire Nation could only do one thing differently starting right now in this moment or if we're going to give them a little bit of a break, maybe starting tomorrow, what would that one single thing be? I would ask three questions. And these three questions are the most underused, overlooked questions that actually take an idea to an action. These three questions, I will tell you right now, are the questions that people have, I've had people say they help them triple sales in 90 days.

23:24And these three questions are the questions I use to lose 52 pounds in five and a half months in 2011 and keep it off. These three questions changed the second biggest, the culture of the second biggest healthcare organization in North America. Well, I got to tease you a little bit. Let me tell you what they're not. Number one, they're not the why. There's a lot out there about the why. I don't disagree that the why is important. If you don't have a strong purpose, you won't last 10 days on a project. There's a lot from Collins that I love and appreciate about the who. Get the right who's on the bus.