A $300B Industry and Growing: Find Your Opportunity in the Online Course Industry with Greg Smith: An EOFire Classic from 2021

0:01Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire. Brought to you by the HubSpot. Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like Finding Founders. Today, we're pulling a timeless EO Fire episode from the archives, so the giveaway may not be active, and we'll be breaking down a$300 billion industry and growing Find Your Opportunity in the Online Course Industry. To drop these value bombs, I are brought to Greg Smith into EO Fire Studios. Greg is the CEO and co-founder of Thinkific, a software company that makes it easy for you to create, market, and sell online courses.

0:39Thinkific serves over 50 ,000 people and businesses that have taught millions of students and generated over half a billion in revenue for Thinkific clients. In today's financial, we'll talk about how more people are creating courses and more people are taking them, how to start your curriculum with the points that you're comfortable in writing and talking about, and whatever business you're in, there hasn't ever been a better time to diving into an online business, and so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Greg and our sponsors. The Product Boss, hosted by Jacqueline and Mina, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.

1:16The Product Boss helps you take your physical product sales and strategy to the next level to create your dream life. With episodes like, Can I Have a Successful Product Business as a Side Hustle? Listen to The Product Boss wherever you get your podcasts. Greg, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something interesting about yourself that most people don't know. Hello, Fire Nation. So excited to be back. Something that most people don't know, I don't even know if my wife knows this. I watched, you know the movie The Founder, founding a McDonald's story? So I cried during that movie. There's a reason my wife doesn't know.

1:57I was a little embarrassed to admit it. I cried during that movie at the scene where, you know, you might not expect any tears, which was when the original guys, not the founder of the movie, in the movie, but the original guys who created it are in a parking lot and they've sort of chalked out and mapped out the shape of their kitchen and they're passing trays and burgers, like mock trays and burgers around for days, just trying to optimize how the flow of food through the kitchen is going to go to build this optimal system. And I literally brought tears to my eyes because to me, it was like entrepreneurship at its best, like just people who were so passionate about something that they had to get it just right.

2:35And they were willing to like spend days in this parking lot doing something that everyone else would probably think they were totally crazy doing. And yet then came up with the McDonald's system out of it. Oh man, I love that you have such an entrepreneurial heart in that direction. That is super cool. And as you were kind of describing that, I could definitely picture that scene unfolding and just being like, man, these guys just really care. And they're so committed. And Fire Nation, that's how you have to be. And by the way, that's how Greg is with his company Thinkific. And that's why we've just today, as you're listening to this, started an amazing year-long partnership because we've been using Thinkific now for years and years and years, the podcasters paradise.

3:14And we love them for all of those reasons because it's just the best core software to use. And now we're even getting together. And speaking of putting together the perfect system, we still have, of course, a lot of tinkering to do because that's what we do. But we've come up with this amazing five-day course challenge completely for free, Fire Nation. If you knew how much time Greg, his team, myself, and Kate have put in behind the scenes to make this amazing course challenge for you, which, by the way, is free, you'd be blown away. but it's just because Greg cares, his team cares, Kate and I, we care.

3:50And that's why we really hope you do take that action and get over to thinkific.com slash fire. We're going to be talking more about this challenge at the end of the episode because we have a lot to cover today. We're talking all about the$300 billion industry and growing and how you, Fire Nation, can find your opportunity in the online course industry with, of course, the best person to talk to about this with, Greg Smith. So let's talk about the recent events because we do live in a different world than we did a year ago. How has these recent events with COVID and the such affected the online course and membership business?

4:30Yeah, it's had a long term impact on it and it's been amazing to see it happen. Obviously, so much tragedy in the events that have happened and are happening. But if you're on the side of creating an online business and in particular in courses and membership sites, it is wild. there is so much changing out there so quickly. I see, first of all, it's like the future has, we've just been teleported into the future. All the projections people had for 2025, you know, five years from now are happening right now. And so the market size has exploded really, really quickly in terms of more people creating courses, more people taking courses.

5:08And to be honest, it's a little bit like the Wild West out there in a good way in that there are so many people who are taking courses for their first time ever now that there's a new way of looking at things. So it's easier to get started than it's ever been. And it's created this environment where, I mean, really, if you're starting most online businesses or, and especially in courses and memberships, there's really never been any better time to get started with it. There's never been a better time, Fire Nation. I mean, for the foreseeable future, a huge majority of people are going to be at home looking at their computer, logging online, looking to learn, looking to educate, looking to pivot, looking to shift.

5:46Why not help them in that process? But we got to talk about the brick and mortar businesses because these in-person businesses, the brick and mortar, I mean, man, they are ones that really, really have to be looking in the mirror and say, what are the next six to 12 months look like? What pivot, what adjustment, what strategy can I implement? So you've been there, Greg, you've seen it. Like, what are some of these successful pivots or strategies that folks are doing that you've seen or that people listening right now can actually consider in their pivot? Brick and mortar site is so interesting because I see there's the typical stuff that you would expect, you know, someone running a yoga studio, it makes perfect sense to bring it online.

6:27It gets, and then you go to sort of go down this, this path of it being less and less obvious that you could pivot to online and pivot to not being in person and pivot to creating courses in education. I mean, that first step in it, I was talking to a dojo owner for martial arts, literally down the street from my place called up and I ended up talking to him and he's, you know, martial arts, you would think, okay, you've got to grab hold of someone. This is something you can do online. He's moved it entirely online, obviously had to shut down his dojo for it. And suddenly went from having a couple hundred members in his local dojo to now he's able to connect with thousands of people around the world.

7:02And that one might be a little more obvious, but then I get into the weirder ones, like someone with a pizza restaurant, right, is now going on and creating courses around how to actually make their stellar, amazing, locally famous pizza and putting that out. And so, so many cool ways that people are transitioning from that brick and mortar into putting something online and being able to reach such a bigger audience too. And think about a Fire Nation. I mean, I really, I'm sure that like that example, the pizza guy had a good thriving local business, but you know, he was just a local business.

7:33But now he has like 9 billion people in the world that he could potentially be teaching how to create one of his specialty unique pizzas, you know, if he does it right and he gets in front of the right people and delivers them the right experience. So it's a different world. It's not a worse world. It's not a better world. It's just a different world and we have to adjust. And that's one thing that, you know, Homo sapiens have been able to do, you know, for 70 ,000 plus years. So let's keep doing this. So what does this mean for people right now who are creating courses? We're just maybe on the fence of considering creating courses.

8:07Like, what does it mean for them right now, as far as them looking at the opportunities in front of them? I think what it means in terms of looking at the opportunities is that they are, they're a little bit different. So there's a little thing, the few things that people are doing differently now. And so you have to sort of assess the different conditions and do a few things differently. And we can talk a bit about that. Um, but the biggest thing is, is really that this opportunity is, is, as I said, completely different and, and much bigger. So, um, some of the things I see people, uh, doing differently is, is they're achieving success that much faster.

8:46Um, they are getting better reviews and feedback from students. So there's, like I said, how it's a little bit like the Wild West is there's so many new people entering, but that changes the environment in that people are more accepting of MVPs. They're more accepting of that sort of quick launch, minimum viable product, test something out, because they're new too in getting into the space of spending more time online and learning online. And they're setting out with a goal that's really important to them. And if you're there to help them, they're even more accepting. So one of the big things that I'm seeing that's different now is people are able to start so much faster.

9:20Like we track very closely all the metrics that we see in terms of someone starting a new course and how quickly it takes them to build it, launch it and become successful with it. And those numbers have in all cases have more than doubled. Like things are happening or cut in half if you're talking about timelines, but they're just happening so much faster. So it's really thinking, how can I move a little quicker and get something out both to get something out in front of the people who are looking right now and help them, but also to see success so much sooner. And Fire Nation, if you're going to be moving faster, you want that timeline to be a timeline that number one, you can achieve in a high quality and meaningful manner.

9:59And that's why having blueprints, joining a great software platform like Thinkific that has a step-by-step tutorials that's going to guide you, that has support, that has all these things for you, they're going to allow you not only to potentially have that time, have like cut in half that time of launching that course, but they're going to also allow you to have that high quality course maintained because that's where you're going to get those better reviews that Greg was talking about. That's where you're going to get the referral business, people talking about it and excited about it and sharing with their family, friends, and loved ones.

10:31So that is key when you're moving through this process. And again, that's exactly why we've partnered up with Thinkific starting today on this year-long partnership. And one of the first things that I sat down with Greg, I said, hey, we got to do something that's really going to just provide massive value, that's going to be free, that's going to be valuable, that's going to really move people and give them an amazing solution. Greg, his team, myself, and Kate, we all brainstormed for months and we came up with this amazing Thinkific five-day course challenge. It's actually turning into a sixth day with this great bonus we have.

11:07So we're going to be talking about that and more, Fire Nation, when we get back from thinking our sponsors, who, by the way, we're going to kick it off with Thinkific. We all want the same things for our business. More leads, faster sales, and better insights so we can serve our customers at the highest level. One thing we all don't want, to waste time and money trying to figure these things out. So what's the solution? A CRM that's easy to set up and customize sounds too good to be true, right? But this CRM exists, and it's called HubSpot. What sets HubSpot apart is that it's easy to use and integrate.

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12:46The app enables you to manage all your communication channels in one dashboard and to automate up to 80 % of recurring questions using AI. As proof, here's an example. Ad Hoc Atelier, Tidio's customer from Italy, has decreased response time from three hours to just one minute thanks to Tidio. Increase customer satisfaction and sales with personalized shopping experiences today. Visit tidio.com slash fire and get an exclusive 20 % discount just for entrepreneurs on fire podcast listeners. That's T-I-D-I-O dot com slash fire. Tidio.com slash fire. So Greg, we're back. And as I kind of teased before the break, I mean, we have spent all this time, you know, putting together this five day course challenge to help Fire Nation is completely free.

13:35As you heard during the sponsorship, read Fire Nation, if you didn't skip through it, thinkific.com slash fire is where you can sign up for that for free. And it's just an amazing time right now. And I mean, right now today, to be building a community, to be building an audience and to be doing it on fire. line. So what, Greg, should we be doing right now to capitalize on this momentum? There's a number of things that you can be doing. One of them, and you've talked about it and touched on it, is that building a community or an audience. And I see people doing this again. It's happening faster than I've ever seen it before.

14:09I was talking to someone the other day who was teaching at community centers or doing music at community centers for kids and families. And she has always been a little afraid of going and building an online business, but people have told her, oh, you've got to take this online. You're only reaching a few dozen families. You got to, you got to reach more people. She's always wanted to. COVID finally forced that to happen. And in her first few weeks, she was doing Facebook lives to 300 plus families around the world. And so, you know, rewind six months to build an audience of 300 families for someone like that might have taken quite a while to make that happen.

14:47And she pops on, does a couple of Facebook lives, shares it with a few people. And all of a sudden, she's got 300 potential customer families there listening. And now she's able to go and launch an online course and generate revenues from that. And many times we're now seeing this where it's actually exceeding the original revenue of the original business if there was one. So the biggest thing for me, or one of the initial things is getting out and sharing what you're good at, sharing what you're passionate about, engaging in a conversation with a potential audience to either build the one you have or participate in communities out there and really looking to grow your own community or your own audience or your own following.

15:22Because once you have that in place and as it continues to grow, as you know really well, John, is you can do all sorts of amazing things. You've got this group that's now invested in you. They're interested in learning from you. And so you can actually build a business for and around that. And Fire Nation, that's the key part. Like when you can build know, like, and trust with an audience, you can get people who are honestly looking to you for solutions to their real problems, that's how you start to get that momentum. That's how you take that first step in that right direction. And I want to speak right now, Greg, to the people who are just getting started.

16:00I mean, what can people that are just like, you know what, I'm sitting here, I know that people have problems out there, I know that I could find one and just create a great solution for them, what can they be doing right now? So one of the tips on growing that community is let's say you don't really have that. One of the things I've seen is where people are they're they're jumping in, they're joining other community. Maybe that's a Facebook group jumping in, joining another community. And then and I received an invite to one of these the other day and it worked and they got me into their audience is it was a small group of entrepreneurs led by an entrepreneur who jumped into a group that I was in and then sent out an invite and saying, hey, I'd like to get us together to just chat and share what we're working on.

16:40And so this person didn't even have yet figured out what it was they were going to sort of offer or teach. They had no specific agenda other than getting us together. Now, they made a bit of a plan so that they could be seen as the leader in the group. And right away, they've built, it's a small group, but they're starting to build that audience. And then there was the invite went out for the second one where you could invite more people to it because it initially felt like quite this exclusive thing. so it's one of those sort of neat tricks that I've seen people do where they're inviting you to this group you can hop on say zoom have a chat with this group people share their best practices what they're working on there's a bunch of different formats for how you can do these things I find a really good one is not one way people do it is they have the sort of the hot seat someone shares their challenges and other people try and help them I do find that tends to have people you know everybody's got an opinion on it a really cool way of doing it is actually having people share what they're really good at.

17:33So then you make sure that they're just sharing the one thing they're good at. They're not giving an opinion on everything that everybody has. But that was a great way to doing it. And all of a sudden they went from zero community to now having an audience of 10. And then on the second call, there was 30 people there and you can see how it quickly scales from there. So I think finding tricks like that, that you can just jump in and start building an audience. If you don't have that immediate thing you want to be teaching. And actually, you know, you mentioned that the five day boot camp, that's one of the first things that we're looking at in that is figuring out what are you going to be actually teaching?

18:04What could you actually share with your audience and confirming that you've got the right topic there? And even if you have an idea of, I know I'm going to be teaching martial arts or I know I'm going to be teaching corporate finance, you definitely want to narrow that down to the right fit to really achieve success with your course. Love everything that Greg's saying in Fire Nation. I just want to clarify one thing that's super important for you to realize right now. You don't have to have an agenda this very moment to start taking action. You need to take action, connect with people, just like that example, that entrepreneur that Greg shared.

18:33He just took action or she just took action and he or she connected with people. And then what can you do? You can learn from those interactions, those engagements, like a question that I love that you'll be seeing in my training. What is your number one struggle right now? Start learning what people's biggest pain points, obstacles and challenges are. And guess what? You're not going to want to solve all of them. but one of them might sound pretty darn awesome as a solution that you can create and start teaching that solution. And you're like, I didn't even think that was a problem because it comes so easily to me.

19:05Well, guess what? It doesn't come easily to everybody, Fire Nation. That could be your thing. So perfect segue into the Thinkific five-day course challenge. Drum roll, please. The blueprint challenge. And Fire Nation, this is going to be that five-day with the sixth bonus day as well that's gonna be taking you step by step by step through this blueprint challenge that again, Greg, his team, myself and Kate have worked super hard on. Day one is all about choosing your winning course topic. I am the featured entrepreneur for this day. I am super excited for you to consume this great content that I've created specifically for day one, choosing your winning topic.

19:49Day two is serving the needs of your community. super critical. Day three is turning your ideas into a curriculum. Day four is curating and creating your content. Day five is perfecting your sales copy. Fire Nation, this blueprint challenge is the whole deal, Holyfield stuff. I mean, this is day one to day five. You are going to be finished with the blueprint challenge, ready to perfect that sales copy on day five and make things happen. And they've brought in other all-star entrepreneurs. You know, our friends Jill and Josh Stanton from Screw the 9 to 5, Joanna Wiebe of Copyhackers, other amazing entrepreneurs.

20:27I don't want to give away everybody. I want it to be a little bit of a surprise, but believe me, they have just crushed it in this area. So you need to head over to thinkific.com slash fire. Sign up for this completely free challenge. They're going to be doing it every single week for the foreseeable future, and then they might adjust it and it might go every other week or once a month. So definitely go to thinkific.com slash fire, find out which one you want to sign up for. They're going to be straight fire. So Greg, which one do you want to dive into? Like, what do you want to kind of like make sure that Fire Nation really gets from this blueprint challenge to get them even more fired up?

21:07The thing that I'm always super keen on is turning the ideas into a curriculum, but, And we've talked a little bit about community, but there is that first important step of really choosing that winning topic and figuring out how that kind of fits with it. And I know you've got lots of insights and opinions on that. And then I could talk to you about the turning your ideas into curriculum, which is one of the areas I'm super passionate about. Yeah, dive into that because that's going to be Josh and Jill's stance in the Screw the 9 to 5 focusing on that one. So go into that and let's have a great convo.

21:37I mentioned that story on the founder. And I think once people hear those stories, because I remember I used to, I would hear stories about entrepreneurs who had this great passion and they were totally committed to a cause like a Jeff Bezos or something. And I'd say, I don't, I don't know if I have that. I don't know what, where mine is. I'll be honest, eight, nine years ago before I started Thinkific or even five, six years ago before things really took off, I would not have cried at the founder. I would have laughed at someone who was, I wouldn't have understood it. So that kind of stuff can come with time.

22:06My passion there around entrepreneurship has come from close to a decade now of helping entrepreneurs achieve success in their business. So now when I see that, I'm super connected to it. So this can definitely be a discovery process of figuring out what that is. And so one of the questions I really like to ask at the beginning is, and I find the question I get most often is, what is going to sell? And we can talk, actually. We have data on what's selling right now. So I can give you ideas. But it's all over the place. The better question, I think, is really, how can I be of value? And that comes at an intersection of two things is where are you really passionate and able to provide help?

22:43And what is your audience looking for help with? So that's where if you've got that small group of people, think of it as a focus group, right? They may not know it. Most people in focus groups don't know that they're in a focus group or a study, but you bring them in. You have some people who are potentially part of your audience. They're talking to each other. They're sharing what they're good at. They can be sharing their challenges as well, and it can be good to ask them that too. And then you're listening and you're helping to identify what they're looking for help with, and you can then match that up with what you're really good at.

23:16And that allows you to help lead into the curriculum development. Because once you've established, essentially, at that focal point between those two things, you have the idea of how will your life be different after you've taken my course or joined my membership or my program. after you've taken your course, how will your life be different? And that could be, I want to raise, I want to lose 10 pounds, I want a new skill, I want to be able to paint. And if you keep that in mind, and I write that at the top of a piece of paper, and then that becomes the building of my curriculum. And then I dive in on that page, and I start to make sure that everything I add to that page that is going to work towards that outcome, it needs to be there.

23:57It's something they need to know to achieve that outcome, to create that change in their life. If they don't need to know it to get there, I take it out. That keeps my curriculum lean, especially when you're getting started. But it also helps people focus on what they're learning. And so I write down the key steps that they're going to need to get to that outcome, that change that you want to create in your life. And then you can start to figure out how you're going to teach within those key areas. But this also, it breaks it down in a nice bite-sized pieces, which makes it easier for you to create because it's less intimidating to create in these bite-sized pieces.