A High School Dropout Who Now Owns Multiple Multi 8-Figure Businesses with Sam Gordon

0:01Light that spark fire nation JLD here and welcome to entrepreneurs on fire brought to you by the HubSpot podcast network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like My First Million. Today, we'll be breaking down a high school dropout who now owns multiple eight-figure businesses. To drop these vibe bombs, I brought Sam Gordon into EO Fire Studios. Sam is the Australian Young Entrepreneur of the Year in 2024 under Property and Construction, a three-time Australian fastest growing 100 company, Australian Investor of the Year in 2020, and runs two multi-figure businesses and is host of the chart-topping Scouting Australia podcast, which is a top 1 % podcast.

0:41In today's foundation, we'll talk about why university isn't a requirement for building a successful business, never drop your standards, building a culture of winners, and why sticking to your niche can add serious profit to your bottom line and so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Sam and our sponsors. Over 41 ,000 businesses have future-proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle. The number one cloud ERP bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR into one platform. Download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning for free at netsuite.com slash fire.

1:17If you've ever considered launching a show on YouTube, I may have the solution for you after launching a very successful show on YouTube in 2024, MicroStrategy Today. I've learned a lot on what it takes to create a successful show and have launched a one-on-one mentorship program called YouTube 100. If you want to jump on a call and learn more about this program, shoot me an email, john at eofire.com. This is the year of YouTube. Let's go. Sam, say what's up to Fire Nation. and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. G'day, Fire Nation. Getting ready to have a big podcast with John today.

1:57Look, I think, mate, one of the biggest things that I would disagree with, or that most people would disagree with, sorry, that I believe strongly, mate, it's that there's such a thing as a work-life balance. In all honesty, I think if you want to go hard from entrepreneur and business and build something big and something significant, I don't really believe in work-life balance. I believe you have to go wholeheartedly after something, a big way to achieve a big thing. And that that workload balance potentially can come in further down the track. But yeah, to go hard and get something big, mate, I think, yeah, I think it's very much, it's very much weighted one way rather than the other.

2:26Sam, you have quite the origin story. I mean, it's fantastic. I want to talk about it now. And I want to talk about how our origin stories can actually shape our business offering. Sure, mate. So I think, mate, probably the biggest thing for me is if I wanted all the way back to to literally being a kid, mate. I'm a high school dropout, dropped out of school fresh, fresh 16. I started working effectively minimum wage on my parents' farm. And what it really showed me, mate, was how hard that they worked their whole way through. Now, my mum went through university. She was a high school teacher, history and an English teacher.

3:01My dad as well, he was a mechanic by trade and then was in the police force and actually was one of the youngest detectives ever in the New South Wales police force in the 70s. So very switched on people. and yet they still kind of ended up going down, even when they went down a business avenue, they were still just working their guts out. And it was almost just like, it was just a job. It wasn't like they were business owners. And when I saw them really go down that path, I realized it wasn't what I wanted to do. You know, still slaving their guts out in their fifties and sixties. And I realized that I wanted a very different path from that.

3:30They taught me hard work, but not that they weren't really doing it correctly, potentially from a business and an investing standpoint. So I realized I needed to do something from a property perspective. Well, property was a big thing that really I got bitten by the bug with. I bought my first place at 19. It took me three years to save my first deposit. And then during that kind of ensuing seven, eight, nine years before I started the business that I do now, which is actually sourcing property for people, I really taught myself as much as I could during that time period and really effectively learned a lot of things during that process with application and studying a lot of different things and consuming a huge amount of material.

4:05This was back before the podcast days. It was all magazines and those sorts of things. and seminars. And I went to them and consumed as absolutely as much content as I could. And it taught me, it taught me really how to invest on any income. Cause I did so much for it when I was on a really low income. And then what happened was what probably really shaped almost, almost the biggest thing that probably shaped me was the most expensive lesson I ever learned. And it was probably the best lesson I ever learned. I actually got burnt by another buyer's agent, which is, which is obviously what I do now.

4:31I'm sourcing property for people. And I got burnt by another buyer's agent and it was 2016, 2017. I wasn't making a lot of money and effectively got burnt 10 grand by this guy that I thought was really big. And he was an idol of mine growing up because he had this really great story. And what I realized was this guy was actually a shark. And the experience in that lesson, which was a$10 ,000 lesson, it taught me how important a moral compass is and having extremely strong moral compass in business because you can only flee someone once. You flee someone once, they're never going to come back again and that name is going to be sullied, right?

5:08Like your name is going to be sullied in the game and in the industry. But if you treat someone right and you do the right thing by them, like this guy, if he treated me right, I probably would have built my whole portfolio with him. But because of what he did to me, he actually created one of the fiercest competitors he ever could have created. And now my business is significantly bigger than his. And so much of it is actually built off the back of repeat and referred business because we do that great job by people. And I think that piece of, of that lesson and being burnt and everything as well, it's so strong in my psyche to never do that to anyone else.

5:39Cause it was done to me, especially as low income owners coming through. And it just has turned into such a massive machine. Like, man, we don't spend any marketing on, on, sorry, we don't spend any money on marketing. We're a multi eight figure business. And in our space in Australia, that is absolutely crazy that we spend no money on marketing. Everyone else spends millions of dollars a year and we spend zero. And it literally like 60 to 70 % of our business every single month, every single year comes from that repeat and referred business. So I think like, it's such a huge thing that so many people overlook is, is literally just doing the right thing, doing a great job by someone.

6:13And, uh, and then that flow and effect that will come back to you, you know, pays huge dividends in that long run as well. So I think when we kind of tie that origin story into it, I look at like what I learned during that whole period of watching my parents slave away and then having to learn all these different strategies and then really having that moral compass, you know, set dead straight by this, this, um, you know, this event that happened to me, they're kind of the best lessons I ever learned in my life. Now I love busting myths, Sam, and you busted the myth that university is a requirement for building a successful business.

6:45Obviously it's not. Tell us more about that. And this is both the States and Australia, right? It's always a push towards, towards going down that university path. And what I've found, and you look at this with a lot of super, super successful people, successful business owners, entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, especially, they almost haven't gone down this norm of that mainstream education arm of how you should be doing things. And you come out and you're an employee and like, it kind of almost like builds this psyche in you that you have to just go down this pathway and stay down this pathway. And I think going down that other avenue and even like doing all the different jobs and working on the farm and I did scaffolding for many years and bartending, all these different things that just kind of shows you that there's so many different ways of, of making money.

7:27It doesn't, you don't just have to stick in this one niche and in this one field. And I also think like the amount of hard work that you can kind of, you should be putting in if you don't go down that avenue, it builds, in my opinion, it builds a very different fire in your belly because you have to operate at a very different level, both from a work ethic and even from a creative, creativity side of things as well, that again, you've, you've, you've picked up your skill sets outside the norm, right? Outside that education arm that thousands or potentially millions of people have gone through that exact same route down in university.

7:59It's almost like the university of hard knocks or school of hard knocks. You're learning it through real life application rather than this pure dead set, you know, curriculum every single time that everyone else learns. And I think it's almost a superpower. Like people have asked me about things about this before. and I almost look at it as a bit of a superpower because I don't think the same way that the majority of people think and especially that university, you know, driven and educated people think and not to say there's anything wrong with that of people that come out with it and they can't do it, but I don't think that people should look at it as a downside if they haven't done it.

8:32It's like, well, what can I actually implement? What have I learned from a real life experience and potentially people that haven't gone through university may not be seeing these opportunities as well. So it's a funny thing where when I was younger, I was a bit worried that it was something that would leave me behind. And I can imagine a lot of people in the States would be the same. So it's almost a little bit different even in terms of getting a job over there if you haven't. But yeah, for me, man, I really look at it as it's been a bit of a superpower for me to think very differently to everyone else.

8:57And in reality, man, the results speak for themselves as well. Fire Nation, we have so much important content to talk about around this topic that we are focused on today. When we get back from thanking our sponsors. EO Fire turns 13 years old this year and I'm still loving every minute, interviewing amazing guests, having complete location independence. What's not to love? If you're doing what you love, there's nothing better than being surrounded by people who love it as much as you. And if you own your own business, you want to hire employees who love what they do to boost the overall success of your business.

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10:05Ziprecruiter.com slash fire. Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash fire. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. No one really knows what the future holds for your business, not even you. Predictions are just that, predictions. Rates will rise or fall, inflation's up or down. Can someone please invent a crystal ball? Until we can actually see into the future, over 41 ,000 businesses have future-proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR into one fluid platform. NetSuite gives you one source of truth so you can have the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions.

10:43And with real-time insights and forecasting, you can see into the future with actionable data. If our business needed this type of software, I'd use NetSuite in a heartbeat because whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash fire. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash fire, netsuite.com slash fire. Sam, we're back. And listen, building a culture of winners with buy-in and belief in the product, it's obviously key.

11:21It's the dream for most business owners and entrepreneurs, but it's so much easier said than done. How the heck do you do it? We're probably a little lucky in our niche and what we do that people are very passionate about what we do. And when you do a great job for someone, they become very vested in the product and they become very vested in the way that we operate. What we really found worked exceptionally well, and I think this will work in different fields and different avenues, right? Is people coming in with experience in our industry was actually detractor. And we didn't realize. And at first we were hiring from people that were external and they came in with their own ideals and ways of thinking and all the rest of it.

12:02And what we found was actually cultivating from a younger generation, not always a younger generation, but mostly from a younger generation that were a little bit more green and in a way, almost like a little bit more malleable and a little bit more coachable and very open to taking that, that guidance and that feedback and our way of thinking. it gave them absolute buy-in and especially coming in without that preconceived idea that they were already someone or something or you know not so much something to be someone to be respected because we respect everyone but almost like they they came in kind of you know swinging it with the energy side of things and it's like you need to be coachable and malleable the way someone works and when they do when they come in and they believe that and you show them you show them what's possible and you actually show them the roadmap on how to succeed in this specific industry that you're in and that's that's what we really did we had people just have ridiculous us buying.

12:50And as time went on, what we saw was the more and more that we hired from people that either had either used our service or were just absolutely in love with our service, but maybe they hadn't been able to afford to use us yet or actually buy a property yet or anything like that. The people that came in that were absolutely bought in in terms of what we already did, they worked out so well rather than people that came in just wanting to make a big paycheck. And I think when we realized that differential and we stopped hiring for people that came in with already runs on the board and already experienced and already making good money.

13:20And instead we took the approach of, okay, it might take a little bit longer for this person to become good, but when they become good, they're probably not just going to stay good. We have the potential to make them great or to make them, you know, very, very great. They're like on a huge level, having that coachability and coming in with almost that green slate made it, it's, it's, it's just created such a crazy culture within us because so many people have come from that same cloth and they've cut and they've been gone, they've gone through that exact same process with us as well, that it just created this, I don't even know exactly how to put it, but just this culture of absolute winners that they're all competing against each other, but almost in like a, almost in like a, it's a, it's like a good, fun, competitive vibe rather than just like that toxic sort of vibe, which is, which can be very hard to achieve in real estate.

14:03But with us, we just seem to really nail it from that end. And I think it's people coming in from that spot of all coming in from an even keel. And so it's not like someone's coming with a headstart. If anything, the greener they are, the more base level they are, but the hungrier they are, the more that we can mold them into exactly what we want. And then they all feed off that same energy. And it's been instrumental into our success and our continued growth. When I look at it, a lot of competitors that we, that we compete with in the industry. So many of them, when they, when they bring someone in and then that other person might finally build up a bit of traction, they end up leaving and either going and starting their own thing or going hunting, you know, hunting a bigger paycheck somewhere else.

14:38Our guys coming in because we built them up from the absolute bottom, they don't look for that. And we also, man, we pay people properly for what they're worth. I think this is another massive mistake that people make in business. They try and cut corners on someone really good in terms of paying them what they're worth. What I've always found is if you pay someone what they're worth, or even you pay them better than what other people would think they're worth or whatever, like when you pay them what they're genuinely worth and what you believe they're worth, mate, you get that buy-in and you have such low loss of staff as well.

15:07You have such a high retainment rate. and that's been instrumental in our success and our continued growth year on year. Wow, that is so key and so many great value bombs there because Fire Nation churn will absolutely destroy a company. I mean, the amount of time, energy, bandwidth and money it takes to train somebody up just to replace them, to get them back to where, I mean, it's unbelievable and like Sam is saying, I mean, when you have A players, you keep A players, period, end of story and Sam, I love this. You have a no dickhead policy, no matter the talent. So even if that person is an A plus, no dickhead policy.

15:43Tell us more about that. Yeah, man. I mean, these days where we don't even let it into the business, we've become a lot better at not letting it into the business, but made it flows in really well with what we, with what we kind of just spoke about the people that come in. You know, it's kind of like that, that expression, like the swing in the dick, you know what I mean? Like there's someone really important and they think they're huge and all the rest of it. When that, when that comes in, it's very, very toxic for an environment. And I think it's regardless of who's already in the business, but if it comes in and you've got an, if you've got a bulletproof culture, one bad apple sours the whole bag, right?

16:15Like a rotten apple can, whatever that's saying is a rotten apple will sour the whole bag. And it's so true in business because it doesn't matter if you've got one elite performer, if they've got a terrible attitude, it's just going to completely infect everyone. It's going to rub everyone the wrong way. And then everyone else will start misperforming. So even though that person might be performing really well, if they're affecting everyone else, what's your overall productivity like? It's going to drop off. And so, again, what we found was building people up from the base level and then getting them to that point, especially if they were humble people to begin with, they're going to be humble at the top.

16:49And sometimes you need to give some people a bit of a reality check on the way through. Like sometimes give them a bit of a nudge to pull it back in a little bit. But I think, especially when you bring that in, if they've already got that in them and you can see it, whether it's at the bottom or like when do they come in at the bottom where they come in in the middle or at the top in terms of product, you know, producing what they're producing. If they've already got a bit of dickhead in them, the more they make or the more important they become, it's only going to amplify that. So that's what we really found.

17:14And we made a couple of miss hires early on where like I could see it, but I was like, no, I think they'll produce. So it's worth it. And it just sours the whole thing. And then again, exactly like you say, that churn ability, you know, which you're going to have to get rid of that person in time anyway. But how many other people do you lose and have to replace in that timeframe, which for one is going to cost you money, but it's also going to slow that progress as well. So I found that no dickhead policy. And I actually learned it really, really young. I used to play semi-professional soccer and I had this one coach.

17:43He was probably my favorite coach I ever had. And that was his policy in a team. It did not matter. You could be Cristiano Ronaldo. You could be the best player. he would cut you from the team if you were a dickhead because he knew it would sell the whole team and we wouldn't perform as a unit. Whereas when everyone believed in each other and when everyone had each other's backs and you knew that no one was just going to turn code on you, then we all had each other's backs and we just got better and better as the season went on. It was a few years there, we were almost like an unbeatable team because we're just this one collective unit.

18:11And I think I very much carried that into business. And I realized that when I made those couple of bad hires, this is what he was talking about back in the day of that one bad apple can literally ruin the whole thing. I love the phrase niche down till it hurts, like really get in there and just define that niche, carve out that niche, own that niche. And you believe in sticking to your niche and then adding bolt-ons, which can add serious profit to the bottom line. So tell us more about that. For sure. So one of the biggest mistakes I've seen so many people make, and I've had conversations with this with so many people in, so many entrepreneurs and big business owners in different industries, but even the same in my industry as well.

18:47And I'm very much someone, I love to listen to people. I just, I just love to listen to people talk and just see where they go with different things. And I think you're very much the same, right? With this exact podcast as well. And I think it's, it's so interesting to watch when people are doing really well, they want to throw everything else on, right? They want, they want to, they want to throw everything at it or go into this or that or whatever. And what I really found was I kept getting people suggesting the same thing to me in my, in my So we source property for PRS, the buyers, which I know is big in the States as well.

19:17But the people are like, well, why don't you throw on like a legal firm to handle all the conveyancing? And why don't you throw, you know, the brokerage firm on so you can take a clip from all the loans that you do and property management, you know, to manage all the properties and all this sort of stuff. And I was looking at it and yes, I probably could have made another couple of million bucks if I did that, you know, bolted all those things on. But how many millions would I have lost out of my actual business by focusing on the growth of that? And I look at 23 to 24 financial year compared to the 24, sorry, 22, 23 to the 23, 24 financial year.

19:48I know we run a little bit different in our financial use to yours. Think of it as 23 compared to 24 in the States. Our rev and remember, we don't spend any money on marketing. So yes, we built the team in the same timeframe, but our profit margins stayed the same, if not increased. Our rev 400X in that year, in this last 12 months compared to the 12 months before. because I purely focused on our business and growing that rather than trying to bolt on subsidiary arms that just, that yes, I could have made more money out of them, but what the opportunity cost of time into that compared to doubling down on our business, it just made so much more sense.

20:26And then what I realized was there were certain things that I could bolt on, but there were immediate bolt-ons in terms of like internally within the business that would again, amplify that profit margin. So instead of going for things like external, like these, like the law firm or the property management, all those sorts of things, which would have been building an external team that would have been for also a much smaller profit margin. I focus on, well, what could I build on that were ancillary services? So to give an example around this, we went with, we're predominantly residential. So a very easy thing for us to bolt on internally was commercial.

21:02And so something like that, where we could literally still build it all around our existing systems, but just source, uh, you know, 20 % of the market, which for one, there's also significantly less competition. Um, but also we already had the clients there that we could also then move them into that next product. And what I realized was like building those things on, you can build on internally and still utilize the same team had such a higher profit margin than trying to bolt, bolt on these little external things that you would have had to hire other people that you did not, you know, that we don't understand.

21:32It's not, that's not our niche, right? Like that's what we know. That's not what we know really, really well. And we've had to hire all these external people to run those companies rather than what can you bolt on internally to massively amplify your profit margins. Fire Nation, I hope you're appreciating the value bombs that Sam's dropping left and right. If you're saying to yourself, man, this guy's a good speaker, man, he has good energy. Well, one of the reasons is because he has a lot of practice. He has a fantastic podcast of his own. So Sam, if Fire Nation's very excited about the content they're hearing from you.

22:02They want to learn more. They want to connect with you. Tell us more about your podcast and then give a call to action for our listeners today. Thank you, Matt. I appreciate it. Anyone that's interested, we've actually got two podcasts. Anyone that's interested in Australian property, which I know obviously the bulk of your listeners are the state's listeners. I'm sure all over the world, you've got a huge audience, mate. But we've also got the Scouting Australia podcast. That's our real bread and butter when it comes to property investment in Australia. So anyone that wants to understand or learn more about that, And there's a lot of things even around mindset within that podcast as well.