Anti-Time Management: The Power of Time Tipping with Richie Norton: An EOFire Classic from 2022

0:01John Lee Dumas:Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire, brought to you by High Level, the all-in-one sales and marketing platform. On today's classic episode, we'll be breaking down anti-time management, the power of time tipping. To drop these value bombs, I brought to Richie Norton and the EO Fire Studios. Richie is an award-winning author, serial entrepreneur, and executive coach to CEOs featured in major publications and recognized among the world's top 100 coaches. And today we talk about how to put what matters most at the center of your life, work from it, not toward it, how your work determines how you're paid and the freedom you create, and how traditional time management measures output, not freedom, and oh so much more.

0:45John Lee Dumas:And a big thank you for sponsoring our episode goes to Richie and our sponsors. Fire Nation, is your business stuck? Are you looking to learn the proven processes and success systems that have been used to create thousands of millionaire success stories? Schedule a free consultation with America's number one business coach, Clay Clark, by visiting thrivetimeshow.com slash eofire. Again, request life-changing tickets today at thrivetimeshow.com slash eofire. If you are building a real business, you need real infrastructure. High Level gives you website hosting, funnels, email marketing, automation, calendar booking, payments, and course hosting all on one platform, plus award-winning 24-7 support.

1:24John Lee Dumas:Get a 30-day free trial and my full bonus stack that includes a 15-minute private call with me and much more at highlevelfire.com. Highlevelfire.com. Richie, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. People believe that time management will give them more freedom and more time and possibly more money and more productivity. And it won't. It actually will squeeze out all the life of you. A full calendar is an empty life. Wow. I mean, Fire Nation. That's why we're talking anti-time management, the power of time tipping with Richie Norton, a dear, dear friend of mine from years and years and years now.

2:14John Lee Dumas:and I can tell you I'm looking at my almost empty calendar and I'm very happy to hear what you have to say about that. So what the heck does anti-time management even mean? I'll tell you what it looks like. It looks like that one time I was at your house in San Diego and we're sitting on your porch overlooking the bay and I say, you must be the busiest guy in the world because you have a podcast that comes out every day. You have all these businesses. It's like you're screaming productivity, which obviously means you're busy. And you shocked me because you're like, bro, I'm not busy.

2:57I'm like, what? And you're like, I know things have changed since then. But at that time, you're like, I record once on Tuesday. I get seven in, and then the rest of the week is free. And then later, later in time, you know, we've been friends for years now. You're like, Richie, I don't even do that anymore. And I don't know what you're doing today, but you're like, I record just for two days a month.

3:24John Lee Dumas:I was doing 16 episodes on the first Tuesday and the first Wednesday of every month. So it was like mind numbing days, those two days, I was doing 16 interviews each day. But guess what? I was done in two days. and I really got into a rhythm of it. I did since slide back and now I'm back to my once a week, seven episodes in one day. I just really kind of like that rhythm more. That way I just feel like my quality of episodes are at their absolute highest at that quantity and at that cadence. But you know me, bro. You've known me for a long time. The word rhythm that you use is actually a word I use in the book too, but that word is everything.

4:09Like, do you like the rhythm that you're at? Because you're in control. You can speed it up, slow it down whenever you want. So in time management, we get confused. And I know it's like, what was he talking about? If you look at the history of time management like I have, I went disgustingly deep into this world of where did this thing come from? It's an invention. It's an invention of the Industrial Revolution, post-Industrial Revolution. And it was designed, let me say it this way, it was never designed to give you freedom. It was purposely and intentionally engineered to take your freedom. It is specifically designed to control and to measure every drop of blood, sweat, and tears from workers.

4:51This is what it's made for. No other purpose. Of course, from that, we've used it in all kinds of different things. But is it any wonder why we go through this process of time management and then realize at the end of the day, we either got nothing done or we feel like we didn't get anything done. And we wonder where our life has gone, even though we're so busy. So time management isn't about – management means control. So it's not am I managing my time because you can't – like time is its own thing. It's who controls my time. And when you realize that under time management, they control your time, but under anti-time management, you control your time, everything changes.

5:34You can tip time, as I say, in a way that you couldn't, you know, even in the last generation.

5:40John Lee Dumas:So Fire Nation, what the heck does anti-time management mean to you? Now that you've heard Richie kind of break down some of these things. And one thing that you kind of tackle in this is the age-old question of work-life balance. Share your genius on this topic with us. It's a fascinating term, and we use it a lot. And I spent, when I first got married, it was a big concern of mine because I wanted to do my best as a husband and as soon to be at some point in time a father. and I would go, this is a little bit sad, but I would go and I'd see these people who are millionaires. Some of them literally, not joking, billionaires.

6:25And everyday people, whatever. And I asked them about work-life balance and I found that successful people in many ways know less about it than the rest of us. And I'm like, why is this? Because they didn't find the balance in their money. I'll talk with venture capitalists and they'll go, money is easy, time is hard. Now, we wish it could all be that way for everybody, that money is so easy. But at the end of the day, we can't equate money with time freedom. We can to an extent. But you know many millionaires that have no time and hate their lives. So that's not the main factor. So the thing is, balance is a weird word.

7:05I don't even believe that it's an actual thing. But the essence of what work-life balance is what we're looking for. So let's say it this way. Balance in physics means motionless. It doesn't move. Nobody actually wants a motionless life. It's the wrong word. So we move from balance to work-life freedom or to work-life flexibility or to a number of things that we can talk about. And in that sense, we move from trying to have eight hours of sleep, eight hours of play, and eight hours of work to I can do whatever I want whenever I want because it's my decision, and I'm also leaving space open. I'm literally architecting a life that allows me space to grow.

7:55Put it this way. An architect does not build buildings. They draw them. a general contractor does not build buildings they sub it out they don't even pick up a hammer if they don't want to so at the end of the day whether you're an executive or an entrepreneur or an employee it's how you work change how you're paid and you'll change your life and in that sense

8:18John Lee Dumas:you'll be able to find the freedom that you're looking for fire nation a lot of power here and richie is a veteran when it comes to delivering value in the form of books i mean kind of go through the different books that you've written and published over the years, Richie. I mean, that's how actually we were first connected was on one of your earlier books. So kind of walk us through that progress because I kind of want to remind myself. We connected when a reader of mine and a listener of yours said something, like you guys should meet, right? And it was out of nowhere and we're very grateful.

8:55And at that point, we learned that you're doing your thing, I'm doing my thing. But when I wrote this book called The Power of Starting Something Stupid, and I'll use your word, ignite, it ignited this flame, this torch, this fire in a way that I ever expected with you and with other people and for many people who have read it. And the idea of the power of starting something stupid is that stupid is the new smart and that we're avoiding looking stupid or because of pride and because of fear, because of procrastination, because we don't think we have the time or the education or the experience or the money.

9:37We don't do these things. We don't live our best life, even if these ideas are inspired. So I wrote that book because, and I won't go super deep and heavy into it because we have before, but you know this, like my brother-in-law passed away at the age of 21. And when that happened, it crushed us. It was totally unexpected. He passed away in his sleep. A few years later, you know, our fourth son, Gavin, who we named after my brother-in-law, Gavin, he brought, you know, so much joy and light and love into our world, but he caught something called pertussis, whooping cough. And it was just so much on his little body.

10:17And I remember at the hospital when they took out all the wires and the tubes and I held him for a moment. It always gets real. It's hard always repeating it. I held him, handed him to my wife. My wife's rocking him in a chair, knees on the floor, our hand on his little heart, we're singing him lullabies, and he slips away. And you're like, what is time? To me, love shows up by how you spend your time. And when we don't know how much we have or how much we have with others, it actually refocuses, reprioritizes, or better focuses and better prioritizes the things we actually want. We say we want something, But you know this.

11:05People say they want to start a business. It's not true. They want the success that will come from it. And if you focus on the success that will come from it, there's a zillion ways to do that.

11:19So I'll keep going with this. But later, we had three foster kids. We had them for two years. And it was unexpected. This mom brought them to our house. We had just met her. We were going to babysit for a little bit.

11:31John Lee Dumas:And she never came back, John. She never came back. and she did come back later but at that point this is when i guess cps had been maybe around and following her i don't know we don't need to get into details and they were going to take these kids they were going to put them in like random houses there's a seven-year-old girl and one-year-old twins and they're going to split them up because it's hard for someone to take three kids and we said well we'll we will take care of these children you know and and they said you're not foster certified. They said, but because she put them in your care, we can call it kinship placement.

12:05So we had these wonderful kids for two years before they went back to bio mom. And the thing is, that was such an incredible experience. We were hoping to adopt them. And now we don't know if they're safe. We don't know if they're okay. We hope that things are better, but that hurt hurts sometimes. Well, let me say different and sometimes worse than death, because in death there's this finality. But when it's not final, you don't know what else might happen. It's painful. And I share this because somebody out here who is listening to this

12:37is having struggles. And I just hope they can find the time to remember it's a tunnel, not a cave. And you can create space and make decisions from that love and not from fear. my my wife had a stroke and lost her memory she got it back my my son was hit by a car crossing the street and should and should should be dead but he's not he's out riding big big waves and doing his thing and sees himself as like the guy who beat the car not the guy that got hit by a car i'm sharing this again because yes i write books but i write books because people ask me questions about what's working in my life so as i've moved from you know the power of starting something stupid to anti-time management.

13:20What I realized was people would say they want to start this stupid idea. But like I said earlier, it wasn't the idea they wanted. It was what they thought would come from doing it. They were two-stepping. So in anti-time management, I help people see beyond goals, see beyond habits, see beyond strengths, which are means, not ends. We make them ends unto themselves. And when we move beyond that to where the dream actually lives, well then we can design all kinds of things i'll say it one one more way a cake baked without sugar does not come out sweet i mean i guess if you put in some other thing it could become sweet but you get the idea so a life baked without your values does not become a life lived on value so you you value your time don't time your values and that's what i'm teaching in anti-time management fire

14:13John Lee Dumas:Nation, you can see why I love Richie. I mean, he's not just writing books that are just like pedantic, like do this, do that. This is going to help you be more efficient, effective, productive, all these different things. He brings in the real world. He brings in life. So he knows through his own life experiences, like what really life is like and what really it is to experience the highs, the lows, and just the overall struggles that we as humans go through. And he puts that into these books. And that's why they're so relatable and they're so powerful. And they're just such gold when you read them and you apply these principles because he takes this approach so you can apply it to your life because it's written with that in mind.

15:00John Lee Dumas:And we have some pretty cool things coming up when we get back from thanking our sponsors. Fire Nation, I already know two things about you. You take action and you're always looking to learn and grow. That's why I'm excited to share a source of inspiration I think you're going to love, Blinkist. Blinkist is an app that takes the world's best nonfiction books and breaks them down into 50-minute reads or listens. So whether you're commuting, working out, or in between calls, Blinkist delivers insights you can apply immediately without the week it takes to read a full book. and get this, there are over 9 ,000 titles available to you on mobile anytime you want so you can get straight to the key ideas and action points, no fluff.

15:40John Lee Dumas:Some of my favorite titles available on Blinkist, The Lean Startup by Eric Ries, The One Thing by Gary Keller, The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday, and so many more. Let's get into a new daily learning habit, one 15-minute session at a time. Turn your spare moments into learning moments with Blinkist. Go to Blinkist.com slash fire to start your free trial and lock in an extra 30 % off today. That's Blinkist.com slash fire. Fire Nation, if you are building a real business, you need real infrastructure. That is why High Level is Entrepreneur on Fire's featured partner. High Level gives you a website builder and hosting, funnels and landing pages, email marketing, appointment scheduling, payment processing, course and membership hosting, and so much more.

16:24John Lee Dumas:Everything you need to succeed all under one roof. No duct tape, no juggling five platforms, just one clean system for your business. And their award-winning 24-7 support has your back when you need it most. When you sign up at HighLevelFire.com, you also get my exclusive bonus stack, a 30-day free trial, a private 15-minute call with me, JLD, access to my weekly live office hours, a digital copy of my book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success, my 50 Days to Something execution roadmap, and more. Visit highlevelfire.com and start building your something today. Rich, you are back and I want to talk about project stacking.

17:06John Lee Dumas:What the heck is that all about? This is really important to me and I already know it's really important to you because you are the prime example of it. I can just keep talking about you or someone else, but since I'm talking to you, I might as well talk about you. So let's think about it this way. project stacking. So let me, let me say one other thing, change how you're paid, not how much, like, of course, the more the merrier. Got it. We all get that make more, got it. But change how you're paid, change your life. So for you, you know, you went from doing the military stuff, going into real estate, doing all kinds of things, getting into podcasting.

17:46You can see on your website how it's grown financially and all the people you're interviewing. Like it's, it's beautiful. But when I look at you now, you fast forward, you go, yeah, of course, John's a podcaster, but he's also like this super entrepreneur doing like a zillion things. And you go, so what is John? And so I'm not going to put you in a box. I don't want to be put in a box until I'm dead. So it is what it is. That's the beauty of project stacking is that you can make one move, you can make one decision, you can make one choice that creates a bunch of positive moves, decisions, and choices for you, or eliminates the bad ones or the ones you would have to think of anyway.

18:29So for example, you're doing this podcast thing, we talk on the phone, we become friends, you have this idea that you want to sell journals, all of a sudden, this journal, we can get into detail about that later, but like the journal is created, it sold you're able to location independence because that's something you're measuring you wanted to be location independent that's something you measured for from the beginning so you were able to design how you were paid based on your values so in essence this project stacking would look like this yeah there's a podcast but now there's also this journal but actually there's fast forward there's three freaking journals and to a normal person those would be maybe two businesses because one, they're getting on the podcast too.

19:15They're trying to sell books. Sure, there is some overlap, but you didn't stop there. You're able to have these things purchased and fulfilled without having a stack of books in your garage. You were able to expert source that. So through project stacking, we could go through all your businesses and someone can go on your website right now. When you focused on how you would change, how you would get paid, you have passive income after affiliate income after your own projects after your podcast all by talking to one person not i'm not speaking of me i mean on your podcast each person you talk to amplifies 10 other things you're doing project stacking one project influences the rest this is not multitasking this is an intentional strategic maneuver so that what you do now impacts all the things you want to do in the future.

20:10John Lee Dumas:Fire Nation, project stacking. How can you implement this in your life, in your business to, again, not necessarily always be focused on how can I make this specific business more successful, but how can I accomplish what I really want, which is to be successful in my life? Because how that is for me, my project stacking allows me to have 24, 25 days of the month where I'm not tied to my studio, to my office, to my microphone, and I'm doing all the other things that I want to do in this world, health, wellness, other business ventures, relationships, family, vacations, trips, all that stuff is super important because I'm focused on this type of management that I want to run my business on.

20:56John Lee Dumas:And you believe, Richie, in designing our work around results, not means. what do you mean by that let me just keep going with this example of of you for a second so like we're going to dissect uh the john lee dumas um thing the thing is you're such a good mentor to people because when when you and i look out at the landscape of entrepreneurs or even executives employees everyday people whatever they're anyone that starts with an e right whatever whatever they're doing. When you look out at that landscape, you see people say that they want time and freedom, but they will sacrifice their time and freedom to try and one day get it.

21:42They'll say they want to live for their family, so they're going to work really hard at the actual expense of their family. You don't do that. You are literally measuring for the success after the success and then designing businesses around it to support it instead of endlessly toward it. So when I say, you know, focus on and work for results, not means, I'll say it this way. Covey, who is a mentor of mine, he would say, everyone knows this, everyone would say, sorry, he would say, begin with the end in mind. But what he didn't say was, begin with means in mind. He never meant begin with means in mind.

22:26But most people will look around and go, oh, I only have these things, therefore I'll start with these things, and they end up only getting so far. When in reality, if they would have begun with the end in mind, as they say, or as Aristotle called it, final cause, an acorn becomes an oak tree, when you focus on means, you start planting different seeds of different kinds of trees and flowers that will never become an oak tree so when you focus on the if here's a question that someone listening could ask themselves what's the job of the goal and once you understand the job of the goal is to create xyz then you can organize around xyz so start with the castle and then the moat people begin with moats and endlessly work, never reaching their dreams.

23:21But if you create the dream and you want to do the thing, you can create economic and strategic moats around it as you have to protect the castle and even grow that thing that you're working on right now.

23:33John Lee Dumas:I mean, Fire Nation, we've gone through some really cool things here today. We've talked about anti-time management. We talked about work-life balance. We talked about project stacking and working around results, not means. I mean, you are a master of breaking this stuff down, But Richie, there's only so much we can do in a podcast episode. And I mean, you have your book that's coming out, Anti-Time Management, The Power of Time Tipping. Talk to us about this book. Share with us why Fire Nation needs to consume it in its entirety, where we can get it, the date of release, break it all down for us.

24:08There's a line in the book that says, stop managing time, start prioritizing your attention. and this is so powerful because let's use it from the money angle getting financially fit doesn't have to come at the expense of your way of life which is the way our parents and our grandparents and have traditionally worked they've they've at the expense of the things they love most they worked on things and the thing is no judgment our people who have come before us have brought us to this moment where we can do all kinds of new things. It's a new era. I call it post-management. So like after management, this is a time like none other where we have choices.

24:54What's really weird about this generation, I don't mean like Gen Z, I mean like generation now, like everyone who's alive. This is the first time in history where at large, at large, everyone knows they have options. In the past, yeah, there's an option here, there's an option there, but there was really high switching costs. Today, when someone goes to work and the people are like, why is everyone quitting? Or why are things happening? Why are people lazy? Are you kidding me? We've never been more productive in our lives. There's so much stuff happening right now. It's because they know they've been freed in the sense that they know they have choices.

25:26Whether they act on them or not is another thing. So I provide a framework that helps people move from I've been working so long, so hard for something. I'm talking anyone, including super successful people who want to create the real success that they really wanted in life. I've designed a framework that helps you put the thing that matters most first, right at the center of your life right now, and enable you to work from it, not towards it. And also what happens is you don't become the bottleneck to your own growth or your own dreams. It's a very freeing opportunity, this idea of anti-time management.