Building, Scaling, and Reinventing a Family Business with Vincent Yoder

0:01John Lee Dumas:Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire, brought to you by High Level, the all-in-one sales and marketing platform. Today we'll be breaking down building, scaling, and reinventing a family business. And to drop these value bombs, I brought Vincent Yoder into EO Fire Studios. Vincent is the CEO of RT Yoder, scaling a family founded trades business into a multi-division platform through AI acquisitions and systems driven growth across electrical, plumbing, and HVAC services. And today we talk about built-on job sites, creative deal structuring, business model shift, the growth through acquisition model, and oh, so much more.

0:40John Lee Dumas:And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Vincent and our sponsors. Stop duct taping your business together. HighLevel runs your website, your funnels, email, automation, scheduling, payments, and memberships all in one place. And when you sign up at highlevelfire.com, you get a 30-day free trial plus my exclusive bonus stack that includes weekly office hours with me and much more. Visit highlevelfire.com. Highlevelfire.com. Fire Nation, if you have a high ticket offer and need more quality leads, Nexus Install is designed for you. We'll book you eight to 20 qualified calls each month, then train you to run the system yourself.

1:19John Lee Dumas:Email my team at john at eofire.com to learn more, and see if Nexus is the right fit for you. Vincent, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hey, how's it going? Yeah, let's see here. Probably, oh gosh, this is a concept that I've been toying around with a lot the past like two, three years, especially in my own life. But it's the concept of looking for opportunities to get offended, to allow yourself to get emotionally offended by people and situations, not just in business, but in life. What I found is if you pay attention to those scenarios where you get really emotionally charged, quite often those are areas where there's a lot of growth to be had.

2:13And if you can kind of force yourself to learn how to be comfortable being uncomfortable in those scenarios. Oftentimes you can kind of learn a more holistic perspective about whatever the subject area is and grow as an individual and grow yourself as a person in an entrepreneurship, you know, maybe learn some specific, say, emotional intelligence skills or even practical skills that refine your rough corners.

2:41John Lee Dumas:Well, speaking of growing, I want to talk about building, scaling, and reinventing a family business. And Fire Nation, that's why I brought Vincent on the mic here today. And I want to start, Vincent, talking about being built on job sites. I mean, you literally grew up on job sites. So how did that early exposure shape your leadership style and specifically decision-making in today's world? The family construction business, it started out as an electrical construction business that my dad started out of necessity, having become a number from a bank-purchased building that he had been in the maintenance department for in central Ohio.

3:19And he started this small electrical business out of necessity and brought me on as a young teenager in the summers to work. I often joke, it's kind of his free slave labor. But he paid me a very low hourly rate, but he taught me a lot about hard work. And we'd actually even bale hay as well on the side to make extra cash and kind of make ends meet. Um, but, uh, my dad really instilled in me a very hard, uh, work ethic. Our, our last name is, is Yoder. Uh, as you, you said, uh, my last name is Yoder. We actually have a very rich Amish heritage. Uh, my grandparents on both sides of my family grew up Amish, um, and left the Amish when they were about teenagers.

4:00So just kind of that, that real hard work ethic has always been in our family. And so learning how to work in, ironically, a trade like electrical, people joke, why are you doing electric if you guys come from the Amish? And we're like, oh, we're at least removed far enough to where that's been acceptable, right? But really, it started out as just construction electrical and then larger and larger construction electrical. I went off and I went to college, got involved in tech startup community, did fun competitions, pitching to VCs across the country, like with the startup bus competition. And I really enjoyed that fast paced environment.

4:41And I ultimately ended up dropping out of Ohio State University and getting involved with a couple other entrepreneurs that I met through a an entrepreneurship club at the university and help them start a couple more locations of the businesses that they that they had in restaurant and retail. and really quickly through those couple of endeavors and a few other odds and ends as a serial entrepreneur always trying new things, I realized that there's a lot to be said about working with people that you trust. And because I got pretty burned a couple times in a couple of those endeavors. And I came back to my dad and I'm like, hey, you know, you've kind of, you've done okay.

5:22You've kind of struggled a bit. You know, you got a couple, you had a handful of guys that are working with you is kind of the most that you can handle. Like, how about we partner up, we figure out how to make this work and really grow and scale. I think we could really do something great here. And, you know, it took a little bit of convincing, took some taking some time to show them kind of the path of what it could look like. But we've been off to the races since.

5:46John Lee Dumas:Fire Nation off to the races is a little bit of an understatement. And that's why I want going to talk about creative deal structuring. Because I mean, you took a consulting for equity path into ownership. So tell Fire Nation what that looks like. Because I think a lot of people don't even maybe know that's an option that that exists and could be interesting opportunities. And then also, what can other entrepreneurs learn from structuring deals, quote unquote, creatively? The sky is the limit when it comes to structuring a deal creatively. When I say consulting for equity. It's really the, just the genre of any other sort of business relationship aside from acquiring direct ownership in a, in a business or buying out a business completely.

6:28This is kind of like a category that really lends to, especially people that have maybe a unique superpower that they've applied through just, you know, a monthly retainer consultanship. So what I did with the family business, and I didn't even know that this is what, you know, it was called back then I did. It was like 10, 12 years ago. Um, so I added value. I was my dad, of course, you know, I had worked with him in the summers. He knew what I could do in the field. It just was not my forte. I chalked myself and about killed myself way too many times. Uh, I was more on the business side and, uh, I had that business mind always.

7:02And so I, I improved the operations, uh, started to show him what was possible. And then I approached him. I'm like, Hey dad, here's these things very specifically that I've done. Here's the value that I've created, you know, the past 12, 24 months, I think we could go here. And here's, you know, a couple, you know, high level ways that I think we could do that. But if I'm going to do this and I'm going to keep working on this and putting all my time and effort into this, I need to have a stake in the game. What if we structured it to where I get my ownership in the company by hitting these metrics and whatever amount of time that takes.

7:37And once Once we hit those, then I get my ownership in the company. And so we agreed to those terms, and we hit it within 12 months. So that was a really simple kind of agreement. You can get as complex as, like with another buddy of mine, I actually used his services for one of my companies doing B2B sales and using AI. And he did so well for my business. And I'm like, hey, I think you could really retool this and do something much bigger. So I helped him retool his business. And I'm like, hey, if we hit these certain metrics, then I get half the company and then we can go off to the races from there.

8:16And so we're kind of in the middle of that one where we're accomplishing those goals of allowing, actually creating off market deal flow for other people that want to buy small businesses and do like smaller roll ups and then sell to private equity or family office or investment banks at some point in the next three to five years. So that's a pretty new venture. But yeah, I mean, the sky's the limit when it comes to consulting for equity. You can do a rev share. You can do a PIP, which is a profit interest partnership. Really what you want to do at a very high level is just figure out what's your unique superpower or superpowers.

8:52And then you go find other businesses and entrepreneurs that have exactly what you need. You figure out how to give them a little bit of value on the front end, maybe through a standard monthly consultants agreement. And then you say, hey, but once I do this for you, or once I do this for you, if I did this, if I hit, we hit these specific revenue goals or margin goals or profit goals, then would you be okay with me getting this percent ownership? Or once we hit this, then I get this percent of the profit or this percent of the revenue. And it just, it varies from opportunity to opportunity. And really it comes down to how well you can position yourself as the expert on the front end, deliver an outsized value that you can then go point back to and be like, okay, now we're going off to the races and we're going to go to that really high goal now that we set based off of these more stringent terms.

9:48John Lee Dumas:Fire Nation, love the opportunities that are out there when you get creative. And I want to talk about the business model shift because Vincent, you triggered a move from construction heavy revenue to this more service-based model, which I think a lot of people are scared of the service based model. So why'd you do that? And how did that change operations? Yeah. Well, like with most things and being an entrepreneur, you know, you hear the overused word pivot. Sometimes you're just forced to pivot. And that's what happened with the family construction business. We, we grew, but we grew through what was kind of the easier route and what I found to be the easier route in general with a whole bunch of construction companies that I've looked at purchasing or that other people that I've partnered with and a couple other roll-ups in the country.

10:34Construction, as long as you're really good at building relationships, you do have to manage your operations. It's easier to get the contracts. It's easier to add the top line. It is much more difficult. It is very difficult to hedge your risks and make sure that you're getting the margins you need and you have good operational processes set up to make sure that you don't get in over your head with the cashflow crunch. So in 2021, we, we doubled in size from 21 to 22, just from large electrical construction work. And it was a huge increase, really, really big for us. And we added a lot of guys.

11:08We did like an over, over a million dollar Porsche dealership job was the largest one by far that we had done up to that point. And we found really quickly kind of mid 22 that like, geez we're running over budget uh cash flow is getting really pinched we have these long payment terms like this just can't we just can't keep growing like this um so we're like well let's go back to trying to figure out how to grow a service company and so uh just dug into that real real deep and i just ate slept and drank that and annoyed a lot of people in the company because of just being constantly tweaking and trying to adjust things and figure out how to not just build out the processes for a service company, which you usually have to use a lot more technology and a lot of construction guys don't like technology, but along with those processes, you have to also have a completely different mindset.

11:58And that's really, that was the harder change. And that's what I found seems to be the hardest change for construction companies or construction companies that want to add service or a company that want any type of construction company wants to transition to do more service work is the mindset shift. You have to really put not just the customer first, but the mindset of always looking for having an ownership mindset. It's like thinking like an owner. And when you're in construction, you're working on larger projects. You can get away with just having, I'm just going to put in my time and I'm going to get the job done.

12:34And, you know, that's my bit. Whereas in service, it's, you got to be a lot more agile. You've got to have more of the entrepreneurial mindset. And the more that you can kind of train that into your team to think more agilely, with more agility, and move around and adjust how you do things, those little tweaks can add up to a huge margin increase. And with the technology, there's just such great technology out there right now, especially with all the AI tools. and Service Titan. They're kind of the industry premier tool for workflow software for anybody in the home services industry. And they're phenomenal.

13:12We transitioned to them from another workflow management software that was kind of like a tier two that we had been stuck in for a few years and waited too long to do it. And boy, I wish we would have done it a lot sooner. We did it in the past, what was it, 12, it was almost 12 months ago. And that's been a real game changer for us as well.

13:30John Lee Dumas:Well, we are going to dive more into that and growth through acquisition when we get back from thanking our sponsors. Fire Nation, if you have a high ticket offer, but you are not getting enough quality sales calls on the calendar, Nexus Install is exactly what you need. This is a custom LinkedIn client acquisition system built to help you connect with the right prospects, start real conversations, and turn those conversations into booked calls. Here is what makes it different. We do not just hand you a bunch of theory and tell you, good luck. We build the system with you, dial in your audience, sharpen the messaging, run the outreach, and aim to book you 8 to 20 qualified calls each month.

14:08John Lee Dumas:Then once the system is proven and installed, we train you on how to run it yourself so you are not dependent on another agency forever. If you have a strong offer, a clear result, and are ready for more quality conversations with real prospects, email my team at john at eofire.com, and then we'll set up a call to see if Nexus install is the right fit for you. Simple, focused, and built for predictable, long-term, quality lead flow. Fire Nation, ideas are exciting, but systems will allow you to create freedom. That is where High Level comes in. High Level allows you to build and run your entire business from one platform.

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15:24John Lee Dumas:Visit highlevelfire.com and start building your something today. Vincent, we're back and I want to talk about growth through acquisition because this is another vehicle that I think a lot of people that are listening may not be thinking about as the opportunities that they are because you've expanded into plumbing and HVAC through these acquisitions. So tell us how that's accelerated growth and what do you look for in a target business? Gosh, I've looked at tons and tons and tons of construction and service-based businesses, primarily electrical, plumbing, HVAC. We added in the family role up here in central Ohio, we added plumbing and HVAC back in 23.

16:07And we actually, we were a week and a half away from closing on a large plumbing company at the end of 22 that would have doubled our size back then. And that was in addition to all those issues we were having with having doubled in size and construction and transitioning the business model at the same time. So looking back, I'm like, what in the world was I thinking trying to do all this change at the same time? But adding the plumbing, the plumbing acquisition fell through at the last second. The owner essentially kind of figuring out he had a tax bill and trying to tack that onto the price of the business instead of figuring that out on the front end with the deal terms.

16:43So that deal fell through. And but right away, kind of our plan B was like, OK, we're going to just hire a master or sign his license to the company. So plumbing, we actually did organically. And we started creating that service division that way. But then HVAC towards the end of 23, we came across a really great local, smaller HVAC contractor, bought him, got his book of business, had tons and tons of customers. It's like a third generation business. He never had more than like one or two people that worked for him at a time, but we were able to really quickly scale his business with that existing customer base.

17:18And to now where we have about a dozen guys in that division. And that's really, as of like the past six months, that's kind of like the fastest growing division right now. And that's really where we see the long-term growth going. There's a reason why you see all these really successful HVAC service contracting businesses out there. But in terms of additional businesses, we're always looking at other HVAC, plumbing, electrical contractors for that roll-up. And then I'm a part of another roll-up that's out west in a couple of the western states that it's kind of doing a little bit of a different approach where we're attempting to create more of a almost like a franchise model buying even owner operators that are electricians and figuring out how to help them get to those five to ten guys really quickly with you know their two or three sales guys and have excellent margins in a really short period of time and replicating that across, you know, the major cities out West.

18:17So right now we have some locations in California and Texas, and that's, that's been going pretty well. You're able to find a lot more growth through acquisitions. If you can do something a lot smaller like that, it's just a lot tougher because adding that initial structure can be a lot harder. So, and for somebody who's looking to buy a business for the first time, I'd always advise looking for a business that has at least a dozen employees, depending on the industry, and something that's doing at least a couple mil top line, and try to find something that you know you're not going to just be buying a job.

18:52You're going to be buying something that's well-run enough that you can plug in a general manager, and you can add your unique superpower to that business to scale it and grow it.

19:01John Lee Dumas:Vincent, you talked a little bit about this already, but I want to dive a little bit deeper into AI and home services. I mean, as you mentioned, it is everywhere right now. So give just one, a single practical way that you're using it right now to save time and to win more customers. When it comes to AI, like most people are still just using it as a search prompt, kind of like just refining a single chat, going back and forth saying, no, this is not quite what I wanted. I wanted this, or give me a little bit more about this. That's kind of like just looking at AI from a super powered Google search.

19:37And then on the other side, you have all these agentic solutions where you have services like, you know, just your call answering services or outbound calls services. And those they're improving, they're getting better, but they're also kind of like all going towards the same singular goal. And all these LLMs, all these, you know, chat GPT, perplexity, grok, clod, like they're all kind of going towards the same solution of having your, your, like your, your Jarvis, like you're an Ironman, like your, your AI that is your personal assistant that helps you accomplish more of what you're doing in your day-to-day life.

20:12So one thing that, uh, it's kind of like my big picture project that I've been working on the past while, and I've almost got it to the point of a beta. Um, and really I've just been toying and testing it out with different, uh, different people that I'm partnered with. Um, but it's a, it's an overall AI operating system. And a large part of that is built around changing again, back to your mindset about how you think about AI. If you think about AI in terms of a personal assistant aligned with creating SOPs. So if you think about scaling a company and you want to cross train and you want to hire new personnel and you want to really, you want to grow with efficiency, you have to, at some point, at some size, you have to figure out how to create really good SOPs and not just documented SOPs, like video recorded SOPs, you know, do the whole loom recorded screen share, you know, showing exactly what to do because a picture is worth a thousand words.

21:06But that mindset around thinking about how to give tons and tons of context about how to do something is how you need to be thinking about AI. And if you can think about AI in that form, you can use any number of LLMs using that same context framework and create an automated agentic system of your own utilizing things like Claude Cowork or your open claw on a machine. All kinds of these solutions are coming together where you're going to probably see within the next 12 months all these LLMs having something pretty darn similar to a couple of those solutions where things can be running on your own machine and you just have to understand how to give really, really good context to these LLMs so that they can go out and accomplish those tasks with as clear of a picture as possible of what you're trying to do.

21:54John Lee Dumas:Fire Nation, it's everywhere right now. People like Vincent who are understanding how to use it, how to implement it into their business, they're the ones that are pulling ahead of the game. So Vincent, we've been talking about a lot of great stuff today, about you being built on job sites, creative deal structuring, the business model shift, growth through acquisition, AI in home services. Let's take this home. What is one thing you really want to make sure our listeners get, they understand from our conversation today? And then how can we connect with you? How can we find out more about what you have going on?

22:29John Lee Dumas:Give us a call to action and then we'll say goodbye. Try to think about the concept of getting offended. It's been huge in helping me grow in all areas of my life the past while. And it's still tough to do. I mean, it's not fun getting offended, but look for those scenarios, uh, interacting with people where you get, they just really take you off. You know, family is often the best place to go to find those and at least start thinking about those situations from a superimposed third-party perspective of like, here am I, here's what's going on. Here's why I'm feeling why I'm feeling and try to get a more holistic understanding of what's going on there.

23:02And you'll find that if you just purposefully try to find those scenarios, do that for the next six to 12 months, gosh, you're going to be in a completely different stage of life than what you ever thought possible. And then, yeah, if anybody wants to get connected or found anything interesting, I always love connecting with other great entrepreneurs. My website is yoderenterprises.com, Y-O-D-E-R enterprises.com. And then you can also shoot me up on my email there, vincent at yoderenterprises.com, and we can get connected.

23:35John Lee Dumas:Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And you've been hanging out with VY and JLD today. So keep up the heat. And for links to everything we talked about, visit eofire.com. Just type Vincent in the search bar and the show notes page will pop right up. And Vincent, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Great. Thanks, John. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Vincent for sponsoring today's episode. And Fire Nation, are you an entrepreneur on fire who's going to share your amazing message with the world.

24:10John Lee Dumas:If yes, we are now accepting applications for EO Fire. So to learn more about becoming a guest, visit eofire.com slash guest and I'll catch you there or on the flip side. Stop duct taping your business together. High Level runs your website, your funnels, email, automation, scheduling, payments, and memberships all in one place. And when you sign up at highlevelfire.com, you get a 30-day free trial plus my exclusive bonus stack that includes weekly office hours with me and much more. Visit highlevelfire.com. Highlevelfire.com. Fire Nation, if you have a high ticket offer and need more quality leads, Nexus Install is designed for you.

24:49John Lee Dumas:We'll book you eight to 20 qualified calls each month, then train you to run the system yourself. Email my team at john at eofire.com to learn more and see if Nexus is the right fit for you.