Conscious Leadership & Psychedelics with Paul F. Austin

0:01Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation! JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire, the only daily show interviewing the world's top entrepreneurs seven days a week. Today, we'll be breaking down conscious leadership and psychedelics. To drop these value bombs, I brought Paul F. Austin in the EO Fire Studios. Paul is the founder of Third Wave and Psychedelic Coaching Institute. He coaches elite leaders, CEOs, founders, and executives on integrating psychedelics with conscious leadership for peak performance, problem solving, and tangible transformation. In today's information, we'll talk about all of those things and so much more.

0:34And a big thank Thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Paul and our sponsors. Franocity has helped hundreds of people leave unfulfilling jobs, invest in recession-resilient businesses, and create legacy income for their families through franchising. Visit Franocity.com, that's F-R-A-N-O-C-I-T-Y.com to book a free consultation and start your franchising journey with expert guidance. Paul, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hey, Fire Nation, it's great to be here. JLD, thanks for having me on the show today.

1:12So, you know, when it comes to success, most people think success comes from following a particular path. And I even see that in the entrepreneurial world that we always look for models and frameworks and other people to follow. But I truly believe real success comes from trusting our intuition, seeing where the world is headed before it gets there and surrounding yourself with people who are willing to break the rules, that the biggest opportunities aren't found in playing by the rules, but in rewriting them. And that success isn't just about personal achievement. I truly believe success is about serving something bigger, that true fulfillment comes from aligning your work with a deeper mission, one that creates true impact in communities, in families, in the world around us.

1:59And so I think if you find the intersection of those two things, that is what defines success. Well, I'm excited for today's episode, Fire Nation. We'll be talking all about conscious leadership and psychedelics. And I want to talk, Paul, first and foremost, about your transition from building Third Wave and Psychedelic Coaching Institute to now coaching top entrepreneurs through psychedelic leadership. Tell us more. You know, when I was 24, I started Third Wave. This was back in 2015 as an educational platform. I wanted to help destigmatize psychedelics. And as I was building Third Wave for the first two or three years, I started to get these really great speaking opportunities at major tech and business conferences, things like South by Southwest, The Next Web, TechCrunch, a few other major tech conferences.

2:45And I realized as I was going to those conferences that a lot of high-performing entrepreneurs were starting to experiment with psychedelics, become interested in things like microdosing without a clear roadmap. And so although I am an entrepreneur at my heart, I love being an entrepreneur. I had built my team in such a way that they could handle and take over the day-to-day things, which allowed me to free up my time and energy to directly coach entrepreneurs and founders and how they can integrate these experiences into their personal path of development, but also into professional development, into leadership and business strategy.

3:21And I think my transition from a founder to a coach or facilitator mirrors what many successful entrepreneurs experience. At a certain point, it's not just about building more, but it's about leading at a higher level. It's not about productivity, but it's about vision and communication. And so that's what I spent the last five years now helping founders to facilitate through specifically microdosing and intentional high-dose psychedelic work. See, I love that niche that you filled. I mean, I've been following individuals like Tim Ferriss and others who for years have been talking about micro dosing, different things that they're doing, but it never felt like there was a clear roadmap for me.

4:00Like I was always like, I mean, am I just going to like take whatever Tim's taking this month and then next month? Or I was like, is there actually a structure to this based on where I'm at in my life, what I might be looking to accomplish with this micro dosing? Because I'm just, you know, I'm kind of like a clean mind and body spirit kind of guy. Like I really don't drink. I definitely don't smoke. I mean, I just like to eat healthy. So this was definitely a niche that needed to be filled. So I want to talk more about micro dosing and high performance leadership, because it seems like more and more CEOs, founders and the such, they're turning to micro dosing these days.

4:31What are the reasons that you're finding, Paul, that they're doing this? You know, entrepreneurs, high performers, people who want to be on the cutting edge, they're always looking for that new thing. And when it comes to, let's say, drug use, just to be clear and explicit, we as humans have always used drugs. We've always looked for ways to alter our consciousness. And in my opinion, there are better drugs and there are worse drugs. And if you look at something like microdosing, microdosing psychedelics, it's non-addictive. It has, you know, we've been using it for thousands of years. One of my favorite philosophers, Nassim Taleb, talks about the Lindy effect, how the longer an idea or technology has been around, the longer it will be around.

5:11We've been using psychedelics for thousands of years. But most importantly, microdosing really helps us on two key aspects that I think are fundamental to becoming a great entrepreneur and leader. The first thing is neuroplasticity, that microdosing helps our brain to develop more gray matter. It helps to elevate something called BDNF, brain-derived neurotropic factor. And so that neuroplasticity is so important, especially in a year like 2025, when AI is becoming more and more important, that we need to learn how to adapt quickly. And so having a tool in our pocket that helps with that adaptability is so essential for any path as an entrepreneur.

5:53The second thing that's not as talked about is courage. That actually, when we work with psychedelics, it down-regulates the fear response from our amygdala, the sort of little almond-shaped, almond-sized thing that's deepest in our brain. It's our reptilian brain. When we work with psychedelics, it down-regulates that fear response from the amygdala, which allows us to make decisions from a place of vision and courage rather than fear. And so the reason a lot of these top entrepreneurs and founders and executives are turning to microdosing is because it helps to facilitate greater neuroplasticity and it helps to make more courageous decisions.

6:34And I think the scientific clinical benefits that we're also starting to experience and we're starting to notice is better mood, better energy, and better sleep. And I think that emphasis on a better mood, a better energy, and more sleep, it really helps folks to realize that there are fundamental benefits in working with a microdosing protocol. And just to be clear about what microdosing is and isn't, microdosing is not just, I'm going to take a very low dose of psychedelic once and see how it goes. Microdosing is a set protocol. It's taking a low dose of LSD or psilocybin mushrooms, usually a 10th to a 20th of a regular dose and doing that two or three times a week for at least a month or two.

7:14And so this is what I often coach founders and entrepreneurs on. It's how can you optimize that protocol for the greatest success possible, leveraging that neuroplasticity and that sort of amplified courage as you're looking to become a better leader in today's world. I mean, at the end of the day, Fire Nation, clarity, resilience, next level decision-making, those are things that we want as entrepreneurs. I know one thing, especially now that I have a 16-month-old son, I mean, man, sign me up for some better quality sleep because when I can get it, I need it. And when I don't get it, struggle bus enters the building.

7:52And Paul, you believe that transformation isn't just about substances, but it's about mastering mindset, mastering presence, mastering impact. Tell us more. So when people hear about psychedelics or they hear about microdosing, you know, we are so conditioned just to think of, okay, if I take this drug, it'll help to fix this thing. And I think one thing that I emphasize with the founders and entrepreneurs that I work with is that microdosing is not a magic pill. That sure, psychedelics can help to facilitate greater neuroplasticity, generate clarity, resilience, and creativity, but it's not just taking the drug or taking the substance itself that matters.

8:36What really matters is what we call integration. And so oftentimes when I work with founders who are interested in microdosing, who are interested in psychedelic work, like 80 % of the benefit is not just taking the substance itself. It's what do you do with the insights and the clarities, the ahas, the awareness that comes through? Because this isn't just about chasing another high. This isn't just about taking another drug. This is about mastering emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and becoming a more conscious leader because leadership today isn't necessarily about working harder, right?

9:15We know that in the age of artificial intelligence, the capacity to get things done, the capacity to check things off a list will more and more be handled by this emergent AGI. Instead, leadership is about working from a place of absolute clarity, alignment, depth, and knowing. And that's where real impact and longevity come from. And time and time again, when I work with founders and entrepreneurs who are working with psychedelics, they find that there is a new layer of depth and commitment that comes online. And oftentimes, the path to actually commit to those insights and ahas is not easy. It may mean shutting a company down to start a new one.

10:01It may mean divorcing a spouse or a partnership that's no longer working for you. It may mean, you know, moving and sort of setting off to a new place. And those decisions are not always easy to make. Those can be difficult to make. And so having someone in your corner who can help you to not only have safe and effective experiences to make sure that, you know, as you walk this path, you're doing it well, you're doing it with intention, you're doing it with, efficacy, but also then to take the most out of those experiences and see where you go with them. One more, I think, scientific aspect that is so critical as part of this.

10:37So what we've discovered from psychedelic research is that psychedelic reopens something called the critical learning period. And they discovered this, in fact, at Johns Hopkins, a renowned research university, when they gave MDMA to a bunch of octopi in an aquarium. And they found that when they gave that MDMA to octopi, it actually reactivated the capacity for them to be social. Normally, octopi are very isolated individuals. They do not socialize at all. And of course, when they gave them MDMA, these octopi started to cuddle. And so from that research, they learned that, okay, psychedelics are reopening this critical learning period.

11:20And what that means is when we're three or four or five years old, our brain is like a sponge. It's very open. It's very adaptable. And then over time, it starts to close down. And so when we start to work with psychedelics, when we start to work with microdosing, it actually reopens that critical learning period. It returns our brain to the state of a three or four or five-year-old just temporarily. And so for so many people, that's a fresh start. And so what you do with that fresh start is so important because if you're not held well in that process, if that's not sort of driven towards a specific outcome, then at times it can actually be more harmful than helpful.

11:58And so that's what it really means to integrate psychedelics, to have that support, not just with taking the substance itself, but in the longterm. There's so much I love about what Paul just shared, Fire Nation. The one thing that I want to circle back to that I just thought was really cool is it's not about working harder, like especially in this world that we're in now with AI that can supplement different things that we're doing. It's about like finding your enough, like what's enough for you to just say, you know what, I'm where I want to be and where I need to be on a work-life balance. I have kids.

12:28I don't have kids. I want to travel. I don't want to, like what's your individual enough and then get there. Now we have a lot to talk about when we get back from thinking our sponsors. Starting your own business can feel overwhelming. There's so much to consider and protecting your identity and privacy are top concerns. With Northwest registered agents, you get more privacy, more guidance, and more freedom to run your business from anywhere in just 10 clicks and 10 minutes. Northwest registered agent has been helping businesses launch and grow for nearly 30 years. If you want to build your business while keeping your personal information secure, Northwest is the partner you need.

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13:40Paul, we're back and I want to talk about the big separator. What separates those who just seem to thrive from those who just stay stuck in these brutal cycles of uncertainty, these brutal cycles of burnout? Tell us more. So what often separates thriving founders or entrepreneurs from those who just stay stuck in plateaus or continue to hit ceilings. It's not intelligence or even hustle. It's actually the ability to make courageous decisions without having everything you need to know at your fingertips. And Jeff Bezos, I pulled a quote for this episode, the renowned founder of Amazon, all of my best decisions in business and in life have been made with heart, intuition, and guts, not analysis.

14:34And so the biggest struggles that I see again and again with entrepreneurs, especially because the vast majority of entrepreneurs are men. They are men who overanalyze. They are men who are stuck in their head, intellectualizing things, abstracting things. But the biggest struggle that I see again and again is that the leaders who are great at building, but resistant to evolving, hold on to these outdated strategies. They operate from fear instead of vision. There's a fantastic assessment that I would recommend every entrepreneur check out as part of this episode today called the Leadership Circle Profile, the LCP.

15:13And it's a profile about how we as entrepreneurs can move from reactive to creative to integral. And in the research that they've done with thousands of executives and entrepreneurs about what are the two biggest factors that drive success in leadership. It's the capacity to have vision and the capacity to facilitate teamwork. And so that capacity to be courageous, as I talked about, what defines success at the outset of this episode? What defines success is the ability to trod the untrodden path, to serve something bigger than ourselves. And leaders who can tap into that vision, who can communicate to that vision, who can surround themselves with people who believe in that vision will be the folks who lead into an uncertain world and future.

16:07And of course, as you're probably expecting, the reason I personally work with psychedelics, the reason I coach founders and entrepreneurs and how they can work with psychedelics and how they can work with microdosing is that it is the best tool that I have found that helps to facilitate greater vision. Because when we work with a psychedelic, it allows us to step back, look at things from a 30, 40, 50 ,000 foot view, see the entire picture, including aspects of that picture that we may have missed previously. And then I also noticed that again and again, it helps entrepreneurs to get in their heart, to be more compassionate, to be better communicators, to care more about the people that they are working with or working alongside.

16:49You know, Peter Drucker said, culture eats strategy for breakfast. And I think this will be especially true in the next 10 years as we look at how work is changing rapidly in the face of AI. So again, psychedelics, microdosing, if they are used with intention, with skill, with a coach or facilitator in your corner, I think it'd be a massive unlock for leaders who want to have a more compelling vision and just care more about the humans that they surround themselves with. So we're going to talk specifically about how you help high achievers. But before we do, what would you say is the one key takeaway, the one thing that you really want to make sure our listeners get from our entire conversation today?

17:33I mean, we talked about microdosing, high performance leadership, you know, that clarity, the resilience, the next level decision making, so much good stuff today. What's the one thing you want our listeners to really get from our chat? I think to recognize that, you know, whether it's a microdose or whether it's a higher dose of the psychedelic, that these are tools that are very powerful, that they are very catalytic. And that means that if you are to utilize them and utilize them for effective outcomes, utilize them for productive outcomes, utilize them to really change your life in a substantial way, that you want to do that with a guide or a coach or facilitator who really knows how to work with them.

18:14Because I've seen so many founders and entrepreneurs that did not do that diligence and that working with psychedelics was actually more harmful than helpful. And I'm sure there are people who are listening to this can even think of a person or two in their life where that's been the case. So because these tools are so powerful, because we are still in the wild west of psychedelics, I think it is critically important to have a guide, to have a Sherpa, to have someone who can really ensure that if you're going to do this, that you are well taken care of and that you're able to navigate it in a way that is both safe and effective.

18:46So Paul, how do you specifically work with high achievers, entrepreneurs, founders? Take us through that process. So oftentimes I'll set up like three month or six month containers. And so as I mentioned before, when we work with something like a microdosing protocol, it is usually a six to eight week protocol. And so if I have a three month coaching container where I work with someone, we'll do an intake, we'll do an assessment, we'll get a sense of what do they want to achieve? What are they looking to catalyze or facilitate in their life? And then I will actively coach them, ensuring that that microdosing protocol is as effective, as useful as possible for them.

19:24I would say the second way that I work with founders and entrepreneurs is to have a more extensive container that includes high dose work. And what's beautiful about the current psychedelic landscape is we have two states now that have legalized psychedelics, Colorado and Oregon. And so working within a completely legal format and framework, I help to guide entrepreneurs through a high dose psychedelic experience supported by microdosing afterwards to facilitate that integration process. And so those three-month and six-month coaching containers are what I often find. And the entrepreneurs who come and work with me most are those who are really curious about psychedelics, have heard about it, maybe have even tried it a time or two, but feel like there's more that they could get out of it.

20:05Feel like that they themselves want to cultivate the skill of psychedelics because they recognize that it's a tool and a tool that if used skillfully could be a massive unlock for their next level of leadership and performance. Because the best leaders don't just grow their businesses. they grow themselves first. And psychedelic coaching accelerates that evolution. So what's that call to action for Fire Nation to get in touch with you? Anyone listening to this is interested in this work. They've heard about psychedelics. They're curious to go deeper. I would encourage them to reach out on my personal website, paulaustin.co.

20:42That's paulaustin.co. I work one-to-one with select entrepreneurs who are ready to refine their vision, elevate their leadership, and evolve into the next level of their business and life. So you can just go to paulaustin.co and send me a direct note from there. And then we'll set up a time to chat and learn a little bit more about where you're at and how I might be able to support. Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. You've been hanging out with PA and JLD today, so keep up that heat. And for links to everything we talked about, visit eofire.com, type Paul in the search bar, and the show notes page will pop right up.

21:16And thank you, Paul, for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation. For that, we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Paul for sponsoring today's episode. And Fire Nation, are you an entrepreneur on fire who's looking to share your amazing message with the world? If yes, we are now accepting applications for entrepreneurs on fire. To learn more about EO Fire and becoming a guest, Visit eofire.com slash guest. And I'll catch you there or on the flip side. Franocity has helped hundreds of people leave unfulfilling jobs, invest in recession-resilient businesses, and create legacy income for their families through franchising.

21:58Visit franocity.com, that's F-R-A-N-O-C-I-T-Y.com to book a free consultation and start your franchising journey with expert guidance.

22:12Thank you.